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View Full Version : Carr Needs to Ride the Pine


mean mark8
10-10-2005, 11:51 AM
This is a quote from the Houston Chronicle today by David Carr:

"Having (Johnson) out there gives us a chance of at least being able to throw the ball up. When he's not out there, it's hard to just throw the ball down the field and hope that they come down with it. Until we get some more work with the guys who are out there right now and get my confidence up in them where I can do that, then it's hard to just lob it out there."

Carr has no confidence and hasn't shown any all season. How long do you let the leader of your offense drag the team down before you yank him? He is telling the media, the coaches, and us that he has lost his confidence. I thought it deplorable that Carr was one of the first to haze Dave Ragone about showing up to camp with his NFL Europe league MVP t-shirt on. Just how many MVPs does Carr have? I say it's time to park Carr and play our MVP. Ragone showed leadership and savvy in leading his team to the championship game in Europe. He also was able to get passes away in preseason, even against a rush coming in on him. He had good numbers in college. He should be given a chance. Carr has had his chance and he obviously does not learn. He once again against the Titans ran the ball out of bounds for a 3 yard sack rather than just throwing it out of bounds beyond the line. We had a holding penalty so it didn't count. He threw horrible passes completely out of bounds to receivers who were open downfield. He looks rattled on every dropback into the pocket. Countless defensive ends need only speed rush around the tackle to get him because he freaks out stepping up into the pocket. Banks is not a starting QB. Ragone showed something this offseason, let him show something during the season.

Does anyone remember Tom Brady stepping in for a former #1 overall pick in New England? Brady was not an early round selection and he took his team to the promised land that Bledsoe never could. I want to see Ragone get his shot.

Kaiser Toro
10-10-2005, 11:54 AM
This is a quote from the Houston Chronicle today by David Carr:

"Having (Johnson) out there gives us a chance of at least being able to throw the ball up. When he's not out there, it's hard to just throw the ball down the field and hope that they come down with it. Until we get some more work with the guys who are out there right now and get my confidence up in them where I can do that, then it's hard to just lob it out there."

Carr has no confidence and hasn't shown any all season. How long do you let the leader of your offense drag the team down before you yank him? He is telling the media, the coaches, and us that he has lost his confidence. I thought it deplorable that Carr was one of the first to haze Dave Raggone about showing up to camp with his NFL Europe league MVP t-shirt on. Just how many MVPs does Carr have? I say it's time to park Carr and play our MVP. Raggone showed leadership and savvy in leading his team to the championship game in Europe. He also was able to get passes away in preseason, even against a rush coming in on him. He had good numbers in college. He should be given a chance. Carr has had his chance and he obviously does not learn. He once again against the Titans ran the ball out of bounds for a 3 yard sack rather than just throwing it out of bounds beyond the line. We had a holding penalty so it didn't count. He threw horrible passes completely out of bounds to receivers who were open downfield. He looks rattled on every dropback into the pocket. Countless defensive ends need only speed rush around the tackle to get him because he freaks out stepping up into the pocket. Banks is not a starting QB. Raggone showed something this offseason, let him show something during the season.

Does anyone remember Tom Brady stepping in for a former #1 overall pick in New England? Brady was not an early round selection and he took his team to the promised land that Bledsoe never could. I want to see Raggone get his shot.

Please attach link. I have been vocal about Carr and his contract, but never have endorsed benching him. However, if this is the mental state he is in then it is time to send in Ragone.

mean mark8
10-10-2005, 11:59 AM
Here is the link. His quote is the last paragraph.

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/sports/3389358

Vinny
10-10-2005, 12:01 PM
Pretty pathetic quote coming from our team "leader". What a great way to pump up your WR's by giving them backhanded non-compliments.

Kaiser Toro
10-10-2005, 12:02 PM
Wow. I am officially on the bench Carr bandwagon. With a statement like that he must be positioning himself for the pine.

Runner
10-10-2005, 12:02 PM
C'mon guys - he gets ragged for "we'll try harder and execute better" speeches, now he's getting ragged for telling it like it is. He's in a no win situation.

In any event, I think Rags should have gotten some 4th quarter time Sunday. However, our coaches won't replace players who are playing horribly, so there's little chance they'll bench Carr just to season a back-up.

ThaShark316
10-10-2005, 12:03 PM
Banks > Ragone...LOL @ playing Ragone over Tony Banks, must be out ya GDM.

Runner
10-10-2005, 12:07 PM
Banks > Ragone...LOL @ playing Ragone over Tony Banks, must be out ya GDM.

Well, at least we think he is. The coaches seldom mix players on different units (1st, 2nd, 3rd string) to do a fair comparison. It's always "of course player x looked good he was only playing the 2nd string", or whatever.

All I know about Rags is that he has been successful everywhere he's had playing time. If given a chance, would he play worse than Carr for 2-3 games? Probably. Would he improve to a good QB given those games? Maybe.

We may never know.

MYDAUGHTER'STEXANS
10-10-2005, 12:09 PM
Yes this is time to park the Carr, it is time to let Mr. Fresno take a look at it from the sideline, a true team leader would not say that. thank-you for posting this info, we all have to remember we are the fans this is only a job to most of them. I guess he has lost his drive, he figures he made his millions time to move on. :embarrass

Exascor
10-10-2005, 12:10 PM
Banks > Ragone...LOL @ playing Ragone over Tony Banks, must be out ya GDM.Banks will never be the future of the Texans. He is a solid back up QB.

Playing Ragone could lead to:
a) Ragone taking over the starting position from Carr
b) Playing well enough for Ragone to be our future #2
c) Play better than expected giving Ragone some trade value
d) Playing worse than Carr making people appreciate Carr more
e) Carr coming back with a chip on his shoulder

I see nothing wrong with any of them.

mean mark8
10-10-2005, 12:21 PM
Banks > Ragone...LOL @ playing Ragone over Tony Banks, must be out ya GDM.

Banks "posted career-best passer rating of 84.2" in 2003 and has been in the league for 9 years.

About Ragone. "...his 97.5 passer rating led the league and he set an NFL Europe record by throwing 174 consecutive passes without a pick...One of the nation’s most prolific passers over his college career…three-year starter and three-time Conference USA Offensive Player of the Year…completed 728 of 1,245 career passes (58.5 percent) for 9,113 yards with 77 TDs and 30 INTs…posted 28-13 record as a starter, leading UL to three consecutive bowl appearances…later named Conference USA Player of the Decade"

Here are the preseason stats:
Player Att Comp Yds Comp % Yds/Att TD TD % INT INT % Long S/L Rating
Ragone 26 13 265 50.0 10.2 3 11.5 0 0.0 74 1/5 124.7
Banks 48 23 253 47.9 5.3 1 2.1 0 0.0 34 4/30 70.9
Carr 34 15 114 44.1 3.4 1 2.9 4 11.8 19 1/0 23.0

All of this information was taken directly from the HoustonTexans.com website.

ThaShark316
10-10-2005, 12:38 PM
Give Ragone a shot to get killed too? Man you people slower than molasses. Ain't a damn thing we can do except watch Carr get sacked 750 times this year. Let's look out for Ragone also...he could get hurt quicker, make decisions 50 times worse than Carr, and look like the new Shane Matthews.

Going by what Ragone did in NFL Europe and in College is like me talkin trash to Raider fans about the 19-17 win over them in the preseason...it's f'ing pointless.

But hey people remember...all 27 sacks are ALL on David Carr. :) :ok:

Vinny
10-10-2005, 12:40 PM
Give Ragone a shot to get killed too? Man you people slower than molasses. speed has nothing to do with pocket presence and ability to buy an extra second in the pocket by sliding around (just watch slow footed Carson Palmers' corner TD pass yesterday to the Chad....he had heavy heat and bought an extra second and made the throw)....Michael Vick and Dante Culpepper are two of the most sacked guys in the NFL and they are two of the faster QB's in the league...that said, nobody would get a fair shot with the time we have given DC this year.

the wonger need food
10-10-2005, 01:03 PM
Why not give Ragone a shot? It's kind of moronic not to at this point.

The bottom line is, Carr is not producing. No matter whose fault it is, he has not been productive in the last 14 games.

infantrycak
10-10-2005, 01:03 PM
Carr has no confidence and hasn't shown any all season.

IMO you are mis-reading that quote and blowing it way out of proportion. Carr is not saying he does not have any confidence in himself, he is specifically addressing the situation of losing AJ and the ability (not that it has been used since the mid-point of last season) to throw balls up to AJ and let him go get them like he did in the Minnesota game last year. All he is really saying is he has to build that confidence in another WR with AJ on the sideline. It might have been worded more politically correctly like build "rapport" or something but you are turning a blah mole-hill sports soundbite into a mountain.

touttail
10-10-2005, 01:44 PM
Carr ride the pine!

I have said this till I'm blue in the face.
No QB in the history of the game can compete with the time Carr has to throw the ball. He is either on his back or someone is in his face.
Dammit man, Hercules couldn't complete a pass with the whole defense keying on you because they know they will be half @$$ed blocked.

bobby 119C :brickwall

GP
10-10-2005, 01:51 PM
Carr is losing my respect, period.

I am posting a new thread to begin documentation of what I perceive to be a total lack of personal ownership by David Carr.

Nice Guy Persona withstanding, he's just failing to be a leader.

You can cry about the o line all you want. When he has time and can't hit a wide open Mathis...it ain't the o line's fault. That would have set us up for a score, and then Carr has the gall to say that he needs to "work more with those guys (Mathis)..." geez....give me a break. You worked with him all camp and preseason. It ain't like Mathis just showed up this weekend off the street and Carr had never thrown a ball to him.

The o line IS bad, but so is Carr. And it takes two to tango. I see some mighty fine dancing out there!

touttail
10-10-2005, 02:13 PM
Carr is losing my respect, period.

I am posting a new thread to begin documentation of what I perceive to be a total lack of personal ownership by David Carr.

Nice Guy Persona withstanding, he's just failing to be a leader.

You can cry about the o line all you want. When he has time and can't hit a wide open Mathis...it ain't the o line's fault. That would have set us up for a score, and then Carr has the gall to say that he needs to "work more with those guys (Mathis)..." geez....give me a break. You worked with him all camp and preseason. It ain't like Mathis just showed up this weekend off the street and Carr had never thrown a ball to him.

The o line IS bad, but so is Carr. And it takes two to tango. I see some mighty fine dancing out there!


My God man where have you been hiding out??????? Apparently not in this world!
I have been a season ticket holder and have seen this for 4years!
Carr is always on the run or has two to three defensive players on top of him!!!
The Texans has set sack records and are on course to reset that record this year.
This happens time and time again. He got some time one play in Cincy game and hit Gaffney for about a 25 yd. pass!

bobby 119C :brickwall

Corrosion
10-10-2005, 02:15 PM
Pretty pathetic quote coming from our team "leader". What a great way to pump up your WR's by giving them backhanded non-compliments.


I think its more of a backhand to the front office for not getting him some veteran help in the offseason .... We ALL knew the #2 reciever spot needed an upgrade ( Who else offered Bradford a roster spot? ) .... They also coulda gotten some help on the O-line ....there HAD to be SOMEONE out there that could help this team ....


I Fully expected them to play POORLY this season .... just not this BAD . I had orroginally predicted 5-11 .... as it stands now ONE WIN would make me happy

Jester
10-10-2005, 02:17 PM
Reading the first quote bummed me out. I have defended Carr for quite some time, but to read those comments is not acceptable. He is the leader and should act like one. I'm not quite sure that benching him is the right thing, but something needs to be done.

mean mark8
10-10-2005, 02:29 PM
IMO you are mis-reading that quote and blowing it way out of proportion. Carr is not saying he does not have any confidence in himself, he is specifically addressing the situation of losing AJ and the ability (not that it has been used since the mid-point of last season) to throw balls up to AJ and let him go get them like he did in the Minnesota game last year. All he is really saying is he has to build that confidence in another WR with AJ on the sideline. It might have been worded more politically correctly like build "rapport" or something but you are turning a blah mole-hill sports soundbite into a mountain.

Carr has looked shell-shocked from the first game. The O-line is not getting the job done pass-blocking, period. But Carr is not winning any awards for composure or showing confidence in his teammates. If all you do is run around like a chicken without a head, whether there is real or just perceived pressure, you have lost your confidence. Carr has already been reprimanded for his tirades on the field. Now he's publicly stating that his other receivers can't get open or catch balls. Granted he's thrown one good pass all year that hit Gaffney in the head, which doesn't garner much confidence, but Carr is totally lost now. He even said he feels like he's playing his rookie year. We all saw him take 76 sacks his first year and he took them with composure. Now he has happy feet all the time. Whether it's warranted or not, you need to have a QB who shows composure and leadership.

touttail
10-10-2005, 02:35 PM
Pretty pathetic quote coming from our team "leader". What a great way to pump up your WR's by giving them backhanded non-compliments.


Nothing new about QBs having confidence with certain WRs. You hear this all the time from sports writers, but never quoted from the teams QB.

bobby 119C

GP
10-10-2005, 02:35 PM
And you (touttail) are acting as if Carr CONNECTS every time he has the protection to get a pass off.

He was SIGNIFICANTLY more accurate in the previous three seasons.

Look: How does DD get almost 200 yards of production Sunday, by the same offensive line, and yet Carr can't "get enough protection" to throw a ball?

I saw McNair take THREE-STEP drops and the ball was out of his hands on the third step: ONE, TWO, THREE (POW!). ONE, TWO, THREE (POW!).

Carr isn't doing that, touttail. He's hitting his third step and freezing up. Instead of having a pre-determined "read" and snapping the ball with a primary receiver in mind, it's as if he's changing his mind between the second and third step on a three-step drop. And that's causing the o line to get the blame!

Come one, man. I know the o line is not the best in the world...but they're human, too, and they're probably sick and tired of protecting Carr only to see him overthrow, underthrow, and flat out fail to make a connection with a WR on a CONSISTENT basis.

This is a two-way dance, and some of you guys are acting like the o line is the only problem. Take a breather and watch the next game. Watch Carr change his mind half-way into his drop, watch him hop up and down 20 times instead of standing firm like Tom Brady, and watch him freeze up and start to run. It's an epidemic, and the cure is not to hang it ALL on the o line.

It would help if Carr would hold up his end of the deal when he DOES get time to throw, and it would give his o line incentive to try hard on every play. I've said it over and over: Bust your rear play-after-play and watch your QB fail to produce HIMSELF...then tell me what's going through YOUR head when that happens. I'll tell you what's happening. The o line thinks, 'What's it worth? He give him time and he WASTES it."

You gotta pick your spots in the NFL, and last time I checked there's not a single NFL team that has a QB who hasn't been sacked in any NFL season. They all get pressured, they all have to pull it down and run, and (GASP!) they all get sacked between 10 and 40 times a year over a 16-game season.

It's going to happen.

Boomer Esiason AND Dan Marino on the postgame show were just laughing at Carr. LAUGHING. Those are tow of the most immobile QBs in the history of the league, and they KNOW that an NFL Qb has to get the ball out of his hands even if he doesn;t think it's the right "read," or whatever. Boomer and Dan BOTH were just piling on Carr. That's coming from two guys who have had their fair share of lumps, and they'r enot hanging it ALL on the o line.

touttail
10-10-2005, 02:45 PM
I never said Carr connects every pass when he has time. That one play in Cincy stood out to me. He was in the pocket, had time to look at his WRs, and connected on a good pass.

I agree that he has had some time and threw it away or not close to a reciever.

I still think he is a good QB and would love to see him behind a good OLine, instead of a mediocre like ours.

One reason he was better in years past, is that AJ was not double teamed as much as he is now. Also, they know we don't have a good #2 WR, so they can send the farm on pass rushing. Hopefully Mathis (or Armstrong if they would play him) can change this.

I think Carr's big problem is being shell shocked form getting creamed constantly.

I don't pretend to be a head coach, I feel we call it like we see it. We could probably argue this till the cows come home---LOL.

Guess I was probably a little strong in my statement, and for this I appoligize.

bobby 119C :ok:

HoustonFan
10-10-2005, 02:45 PM
I think it has something to do w/ him getting laid out so many times in his professional career. It's in his head, but then again the reality is that it is still happening.

touttail
10-10-2005, 02:51 PM
I have stated this before.
Carr was a killer passer in college.
Do you think the coaches have asked him what's he comfortable with, or do they tell him, this is our offense and this is how it's gonna be?

bobby 119C :brickwall

rmartin65
10-10-2005, 03:09 PM
Look: How does DD get almost 200 yards of production Sunday, by the same offensive line, and yet Carr can't "get enough protection" to throw a ball?

if the line can runblock and not passblock. its two seperate things.

Vinny
10-10-2005, 03:11 PM
I have stated this before.
Carr was a killer passer in college.
Do you think the coaches have asked him what's he comfortable with, or do they tell him, this is our offense and this is how it's gonna be?So was Andre Ware and David Klingler but big stats in College do not translate to the pros necessarily.

Bassinguy
10-10-2005, 06:21 PM
Carr ride the pine!

I have said this till I'm blue in the face.
No QB in the history of the game can compete with the time Carr has to throw the ball. He is either on his back or someone is in his face.
Dammit man, Hercules couldn't complete a pass with the whole defense keying on you because they know they will be half @$$ed blocked.

bobby 119C :brickwall
I couldn't agree more. There's not one QB in the league that could do any better. However, a question I've asking is why try to pass out of the pocket when you're getting that much pressure? Try rolling out. Just make sure someone is on the outside to slow the rush down. A moving target is harder to hit.

CajunTexan
10-10-2005, 06:38 PM
IMO you are mis-reading that quote and blowing it way out of proportion. Carr is not saying he does not have any confidence in himself, he is specifically addressing the situation of losing AJ and the ability (not that it has been used since the mid-point of last season) to throw balls up to AJ and let him go get them like he did in the Minnesota game last year. All he is really saying is he has to build that confidence in another WR with AJ on the sideline. It might have been worded more politically correctly like build "rapport" or something but you are turning a blah mole-hill sports soundbite into a mountain.

But, that, it appears, is what this board is all about. Find a quote by someone, especially the high priced QB, and spin it to make it look bad. It is so funny, I spent hours reading threads and posts last night after the game and was suprised at the lack of Carr bashers. It seemed all the heat was pointed at the coaching staff. But just give 'em 24 hours and they are all over the high paid , highly personable, good skills having, California pretty boy who has given much to this organization. And whom the organization has given very little back, other than the obligatory millions of $'s!

Go ahead, throw it out there, "yeah, but he hasn't given us wins." I think we have beaten that in the ground. "Not all Carrs fault" "o-line sucks" "defense isn't much better"

I saw an article in the Chronicle today that said it would be 80 degrees tomorrow! What do you think they meant by that? Do you want the link?

Bassinguy
10-10-2005, 06:40 PM
Touttail--I have been and still am one of David's biggest fans, and I also think he's more than a little shell shocked. You mentioned D Armstrong. I have no idea why he's not playing more. All he does is make clutch catches. All us fans want is to see them look as if they're doing more than going through the motions. Mailing it in is the phrase, I guess.There's only 3 or 4 of them consistently giving it all they have, and you have to wonder how long before they too start giving up. Hate to see major changes this early in the season, but I think it's time for a change, before it gets (dare I say it) worse.