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View Full Version : You can get mad at Casserly all you want but...


Hervoyel
10-09-2005, 05:15 PM
Seriously, it just dawned on me a moment ago what's happening here. It took me a while to figure out what I was looking at because honestly, I haven't seen it in almost a decade. This isn't the players guys, this is the coaching staff. This team has quit on these coaches. They look very much (in a general sense) what the Oilers looked like at the end under Pardee.

We sign guys from other teams who play well on those teams but come here and can't execute anymore? Guys we draft don't develop the way they should? Veterans who played smart in 2002 have become progressively worse in just three short years as the overall talent surrounding them has seemingly gone up?

It's in the body language of the guys as they stand on the sidelines or walk on or off the field. It's in their eyes when the camera catches them talking to each other on the bench. It's in the boneheaded things they say during interviews and it's in the way former players talk about our organization. The Texans, Version 1.0 are done.

Are there questionable moves that Casserly has made? Absolutely and you can't ignore that. I'm not saying you should. I'm saying that this is a case of players no longer buying what the coaches are selling. We have no believers out there. Nobody's having any fun. Nobody thinks we're going to find a way to win "somehow" anymore.

The only thing that solves this is an owner kicking a coach and his assistants to the curb, then hiring a coach who can make the players buy into his game. Not just any coach but a guy who brings credibiity to the table from day one.

It's not always a former HC like "Tuna in Dallas" or "Vermiel in St Louis" when they came back to respectability. Sometimes you try that and you get "Ditka in New Orleans". Sometimes its a Jeff Fisher in Houston or a Jim Mora in Atlanta. That's where interviewing and the owners instincts come into play. All we fans can do is hope and pray that Bob either picks a known winner or can make a good choice from the pack of coordinators out there who seem ready to move up.

2005 is over as far as I'm concerned. I'm not going to feel bad one more day about how much this team sucks. I've got better things to do with my time and stuff to get done on Sunday afternoons. I hope Bob McNair or someone in his organization reads this stuff from time to time because I've got one thing to say. Today I ditched the game for the first time four years. I'm not coming back until I think you've done something about the lousy product you have put on the field and charged Houstonians through the nose for. This isn't good enough. If you don't get what I mean look at the Astros and Rockets who are making moves and busting butts to win. If that doesn't inspire you then perhaps you're in the wrong line of business.

eriadoc
10-09-2005, 05:27 PM
I believe I have to agree with you, Herv. And when Capers is down at least two scores with 6 minutes left in the game and calls a punt with 4th and 1, it tells me he's given up as well.

Unlike you, however, I cannot turn my head and ignore it for the rest of the season. I truly wish I could.

Tulip
10-09-2005, 05:27 PM
I agree. This household often argues about this, but I contend that this is a coaching problem, NOT a personnel problem.

As a coach, you have the opportunity to motivate players to achieve beyond their talent. On the flip side, you also have the opportunity to take away their confidence with scheming that shows no faith in their abilities as players or as a team.

I watched this with the Longhorns, and I've watched them turn it all around in one year. Nothing really changed but the coaching philosophy. They went from playing not to lose to playing to win, with heart and passion. And now they are in position to win a National Championship.

tiger06
10-09-2005, 05:30 PM
There's definitely some personnel problems but I agree that the coaching is what's hurting this team. I really hope McNair takes action. Those empty seats aren't very appealing to him I'm sure.

the wonger need food
10-09-2005, 05:30 PM
Are there questionable moves that Casserly has made? Absolutely and you can't ignore that. I'm not saying you should. I'm saying that this is a case of players no longer buying what the coaches are selling. We have no believers out there. Nobody's having any fun. Nobody thinks we're going to find a way to win "somehow" anymore.

Hervoyel, you're spot on here. No need to look any further than Walker and Sharper's statements after the second Colts game last year. That was the beginning of the end and Bob should have recognized this as many of us did.

The sooner the next 4-year plan is put into action, the better.

Ibar_Harry
10-09-2005, 05:37 PM
Seriously, it just dawned on me a moment ago what's happening here. It took me a while to figure out what I was looking at because honestly, I haven't seen it in almost a decade. This isn't the players guys, this is the coaching staff. This team has quit on these coaches. They look very much (in a general sense) what the Oilers looked like at the end under Pardee.

We sign guys from other teams who play well on those teams but come here and can't execute anymore? Guys we draft don't develop the way they should? Veterans who played smart in 2002 have become progressively worse in just three short years as the overall talent surrounding them has seemingly gone up?

It's in the body language of the guys as they stand on the sidelines or walk on or off the field. It's in their eyes when the camera catches them talking to each other on the bench. It's in the boneheaded things they say during interviews and it's in the way former players talk about our organization. The Texans, Version 1.0 are done.

Are there questionable moves that Casserly has made? Absolutely and you can't ignore that. I'm not saying you should. I'm saying that this is a case of players no longer buying what the coaches are selling. We have no believers out there. Nobody's having any fun. Nobody thinks we're going to find a way to win "somehow" anymore.

The only thing that solves this is an owner kicking a coach and his assistants to the curb, then hiring a coach who can make the players buy into his game. Not just any coach but a guy who brings credibiity to the table from day one.

It's not always a former HC like "Tuna in Dallas" or "Vermiel in St Louis" when they came back to respectability. Sometimes you try that and you get "Ditka in New Orleans". Sometimes its a Jeff Fisher in Houston or a Jim Mora in Atlanta. That's where interviewing and the owners instincts come into play. All we fans can do is hope and pray that Bob either picks a known winner or can make a good choice from the pack of coordinators out there who seem ready to move up.

2005 is over as far as I'm concerned. I'm not going to feel bad one more day about how much this team sucks. I've got better things to do with my time and stuff to get done on Sunday afternoons. I hope Bob McNair or someone in his organization reads this stuff from time to time because I've got one thing to say. Today I ditched the game for the first time four years. I'm not coming back until I think you've done something about the lousy product you have put on the field and charged Houstonians through the nose for. This isn't good enough. If you don't get what I mean look at the Astros and Rockets who are making moves and busting butts to win. If that doesn't inspire you then perhaps you're in the wrong line of business.

Herv I've been saying this for a long time, but you thought I was crazy. I will say this, Washington and Dallas are back. Why? Because Gibbs and Parcells are back. Its coaching and how to put it together and that's what its all about. As I have always said I don't like Parcells, but he knows the game. I keep saying is there anyone out there in the retirement category? This is beyond ugly and the FANS, OWNER, PLAYERS are suffering from total anarchy. You've seen it in the players comments and that's why certains players are gone and certain players are still here. The problem was visible a year and a half ago, but nobody wanted to listen. We have the equivalent of the Campo situation in Dallas. The problem is we need a total coach house cleaning right now. May be you look to a Shula or Reeves and say lets see what they can do in the interim. I still say we have some players, but they're adrift on a sea of incompetence. We need someone who has been there and has the contacts to put it all together. Thats what makes a Gibbs or a Parcells. Some of you would say no, but I think Reeves might be a good choice despite some of this problems in the past. We loose nothing by going to someone like that with the idea we will evaluate where we are at the end of the season, but at least they could begin to teach these guys how to play football and how an offense should be run.

TexanExile
10-09-2005, 05:42 PM
And I know I've brought this up too many times already, but look at the Dolphins. Wannstedt and his puppet GM failed in several successive drafts, Ricky quit the team, the team quit on Wannstedt, and he got canned. The team won a few emotional victories late last year but they DID come alive once the confused-looking nice guy on the sideline was fired. And they went out and hired Nick Saban, a college coach, who came in and IMMEDIATELY came up with wins. Their O-line is worse talent-wise than Houston's, yet it still protects their QB (Gus freaking Frerotte!?!?!) well enough, and they're coming up with just enough big plays to win. They're not worldbeaters but they did more, better, in 1 offseason than Houston's done in the last 2.

Quick turnarounds are possible. John Fox and Carolina might be another example but I'm not as knowledgeable about what happened there.

Herv, I love your post and it definitely shows how much you care, but I can't boycott the team. I'll still be in front of the TV every Sunday, no doubt about it.

HoustonFan
10-09-2005, 05:45 PM
True, Herv. Like someone else on here, I'm still going to find it hard not to watch the Texans. I still support them. It's tough after 4 seasons that we're still not getting it - and now it's looking like we're going backwards for the first time.

Even the Cowboys went winless about 15 yrs ago and managed to pull it together a couple of years later to win some championships. I pray the sports gods are good to us like they were to the Cowboys around that time.

Huge
10-09-2005, 05:45 PM
Problem is, if you only fire the coach, you still have the same guy in place that was resonsible for hiring the first coach that didn't work out.

GP
10-09-2005, 05:53 PM
Nobody is griping about Casserly picking Domanick Davis are they?

Casserly has done only one thing wrong: He hasn't been coaching this team. Heck, give him a chance and he might just pull out a win.

Players are ready for a BIG change. No more small fish like Chris Palmer. According to a Kirwan piece on nfl.com, Palmer wasn't too angry or bitter about being let go.

Probably because he knew Capers was RIGHT BEHIND HIM.

This bad of a loss at home to the pathetic Titans, with TONS of empty seats in Reliant, and the Astros behind manager Phil Garner reaching the NLCS for the second straight year should be enough to see a head coach firing. Hopefully.

Capers will be fired soon--I predict this week. I think McNair expected to see a second-straight competitive game today, and this should be all that's needed for McNair to know that he's got to pull the trigger NOW and not at the end of the season. How can you, as an owner, sit there and see an empty stadium...knowing a few blocks away the Astros have packed it in with rabid fans...and think that you can LET Capers continue one more day? How can you LET Capers trot ot onto the field the next home game? You can't, if you have self-respect. And speaking of self-respect...Capers should have a little of that himself and just be man and step down. He should have stepped down two weeks ago, if you ask me.

Hey, you think old Garner would coach us when he gets done managing baseball in a few weeks?

sakebomb
10-09-2005, 05:54 PM
I don't think it is turning your back on the organization right now. The product is horrible and leaves a really bad taste in your mouth. It's frustrating because the team has the same problems they had four years ago. It doesn't help that they have made more than a few questionable decisions in the draft and free agency. :brickwall

Honoring Earl 34
10-09-2005, 05:55 PM
:texflag: I think you can't blame one without dragging the other into the conversation .
I think CC's biggest screwups are the Babin trade , The Buchanon trade and drafting Pitts in the 2nd round and then signing him to an all-pro extension .
The team acts like Capers told them their not going to get paid . Our young talent is not coming around plus the OL is enough to get CC and Capers fired .

cuppacoffee
10-09-2005, 05:57 PM
Seriously, it just dawned on me a moment ago what's happening here. It took me a while to figure out what I was looking at because honestly, I haven't seen it in almost a decade. This isn't the players guys, this is the coaching staff. This team has quit on these coaches. They look very much (in a general sense) what the Oilers looked like at the end under Pardee.

We sign guys from other teams who play well on those teams but come here and can't execute anymore? Guys we draft don't develop the way they should? Veterans who played smart in 2002 have become progressively worse in just three short years as the overall talent surrounding them has seemingly gone up?

It's in the body language of the guys as they stand on the sidelines or walk on or off the field. It's in their eyes when the camera catches them talking to each other on the bench. It's in the boneheaded things they say during interviews and it's in the way former players talk about our organization. The Texans, Version 1.0 are done.

Are there questionable moves that Casserly has made? Absolutely and you can't ignore that. I'm not saying you should. I'm saying that this is a case of players no longer buying what the coaches are selling. We have no believers out there. Nobody's having any fun. Nobody thinks we're going to find a way to win "somehow" anymore.

The only thing that solves this is an owner kicking a coach and his assistants to the curb, then hiring a coach who can make the players buy into his game. Not just any coach but a guy who brings credibiity to the table from day one.

It's not always a former HC like "Tuna in Dallas" or "Vermiel in St Louis" when they came back to respectability. Sometimes you try that and you get "Ditka in New Orleans". Sometimes its a Jeff Fisher in Houston or a Jim Mora in Atlanta. That's where interviewing and the owners instincts come into play. All we fans can do is hope and pray that Bob either picks a known winner or can make a good choice from the pack of coordinators out there who seem ready to move up.

2005 is over as far as I'm concerned. I'm not going to feel bad one more day about how much this team sucks. I've got better things to do with my time and stuff to get done on Sunday afternoons. I hope Bob McNair or someone in his organization reads this stuff from time to time because I've got one thing to say. Today I ditched the game for the first time four years. I'm not coming back until I think you've done something about the lousy product you have put on the field and charged Houstonians through the nose for. This isn't good enough. If you don't get what I mean look at the Astros and Rockets who are making moves and busting butts to win. If that doesn't inspire you then perhaps you're in the wrong line of business.

Hervoyel...I feel your pain.
Its a sad indictment when fans (myself included) decide there are better things to do than watch their team. In the past I would go to church on Saturday evening in order to have my Sunday morning free for the games. Today I went to church on Sunday, took my wife shopping and got home in time for the fourth quarter. I wish I had spent more time at the flea mkt.

From what I have read on this MB the stadium was not full at the start of the game and was about 20% occupied at the end of the game.

I believe McNair guaranteed sell outs to the NFL for five years as part of his gaining the franchise. If this franchise does not provide a better product than it is now then we can look forward to many blackouts when the five year guarantee is over.

cac: :coffee:

Grid
10-09-2005, 06:21 PM
im with ya on this 100% Herv.

the main problem with this team is the coaching staff.. there is no trust there.. no one is buying into the system. They, like the fans, are convinced that it doesnt work.

We need to shake things up and make alot of replacements before we end up like the Bengals, with our best players just looking for a way out of Houston.

PapaL
10-09-2005, 06:38 PM
I believe I have to agree with you, Herv. And when Capers is down at least two scores with 6 minutes left in the game and calls a punt with 4th and 1, it tells me he's given up as well.


Thats a call a guy with no backbone AND no balls makes. WTF? Show your team you believe in them, atleast you go down fighting. Sorry excuse for a "coach."

angeltexus
10-09-2005, 06:43 PM
I clearly yelled at Fangio and his fake coaches right after warm ups. I don't know who they are more scared of, their opponents or their fans. All the players have a look of concern going into the tunnel to put their shoulder pads on. Right there and then I knew it was not going to be a fun day and it was barely 11:40 am. Please fire these bootleg coaches Bob because your stadium looks funky empty.

the wonger need food
10-09-2005, 06:47 PM
Thats a call a guy with no backbone AND no balls makes. WTF? Show your team you believe in them, atleast you go down fighting. Sorry excuse for a "coach."


The philosophy is to keep games as close as possible. Winning games is not important, keeping them as close as possible is.

HoustonFan
10-09-2005, 06:49 PM
Thats a call a guy with no backbone AND no balls makes. WTF? Show your team you believe in them, atleast you go down fighting. Sorry excuse for a "coach."

We should have been there screaming to the coach to go for it. "C'MON, COACH. BE A MAN. GO FOR IT!!!!"

rittenhouserobz
10-09-2005, 07:21 PM
Players are ready for a BIG change. No more small fish like Chris Palmer. According to a Kirwan piece on nfl.com, Palmer wasn't too angry or bitter about being let go.

Probably because he knew Capers was RIGHT BEHIND HIM.



Palmer needed to leave before Capers so he could tell the next GM or athletic director he interviews with, "Hey it wasn't me. That guy Capers did it all."


:ok:

throwANDREtheBALL
10-09-2005, 07:34 PM
I'm sick of hearing this. Its just the coaches.

True the coaching is atrocious. True it needs to be changed ASAP.

BUT

Casserly is also atrocious, and clearly had the WORST off-season of any GM last year and one of the worst the year before that.


Sure the coaching makes players Casserly brings in look bad, but, you've gotta admit the talent Casserly brings in also makes Capers coaching look bad.

Here's how they grade out
Capers F-
Casserly F+

So, I don't know about you guys, but, I don't want anymore flunkees running my team.

Double Barrel
10-09-2005, 07:42 PM
Well said, Herv. Stick a fork in this year's team, because they are done.

You're right on the money about the quitter's attitude that seems to permeate the team this year, and the losing mentality grows like a cancer. We have lots of experience with it in past Houston teams, and we know it when we see it. It's a group sickness that can take organizations years to overcome, and I dread the idea of having a team that has to go through years of failure before getting a taste of success.

We have the talent, now we just need the leadership and football minds that can put it together with other talent and give us a product to cheer about.

I'm not going to quit watching, though...perhaps I'm a masochist, as I'll watch every stickin' minute of a Texans game (and I'll renew my season tickets, too), no matter how bad it gets. It has always been with the hope that better days will [eventually] come. But as long as Capers is HC, I'm afraid that hope is futile and better days are later instead of sooner.

So, how many times do I have to repeat the following until I'm a member?:
"The first rule of Fire Capers Club, is that there is no Fire Capers Club."