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View Full Version : The real reason for the woes................


Bongo59
10-06-2005, 09:02 AM
This exemplifies one of many reasons why the texans are where they are............the horrible drafting. Starts with Carr and you can add Wand Joppru Hollings wells and their recent trades.......with Babin and Pbuch...........Casserly is the problem. The cupboard is bare.

By Terry McCormick,
October 06, 2005

When Tennessee Titans general manager Floyd Reese swapped his first-round pick in 2004 in a draft day trade with division rival Houston, he couldn’t have known that the results would be so lopsided in his favor.

Reese traded the 27th pick overall in the draft and threw in pick No. 159 (a fifth-rounder) to the Texans in exchange for Houston’s pick in the second round (No. 40 overall), as well as a third-rounder, fourth-rounder and a fifth-round choice).

The reason the Texans were so eager to move up was the chance to select Jason Babin, a speed rushing end from Western Michigan, whom they projected to be an outside linebacker in the 3-4 defense. Babin won’t play Sunday because of a shoulder injury.

Houston traded the 159th pick to Jacksonville for two other choices, and wound up with safety Jammal Lord (who is on their practice squad) and linebacker Raheem Orr, who is no longer on the team.

In exchange, the Titans wound up with four players, all of whom have contributed to varying degrees, including two starters.

With the 40th choice, the Titans selected tight end Ben Troupe, following that with starting defensive tackle Randy Starks at No. 71 overall. Tennessee then picked defensive end Bo Schobel (103rd) and tackle Jacob Bell (138th) with the final two choices.

Reese certainly would make the deal again, especially consider how it’s worked out for Tennessee.

“It depends on the complexion of your team,” he said. “In the situation we were in, we would rather have the four picks, because you would hope that all four picks would be able to come in and help you to a certain degree.

“Now, if you feel like you’ve got 21 of your 22 players already on the roster, and you need one guy, and he’s there, then you probably make the deal.”

The Titans had contemplated taking Troupe at No. 27 before making the trade, but with him and Georgia tight end Ben Watson still on the board, Reese gambled that he could grab the extra picks and still take one of the tight ends at No. 40. He won.

“We made the deal, thinking one of those two guys would be there when we came up at 40. It turned out that Ben was there, and we were happy and thrilled that he was,” Reese said.

As for Babin, who had four sacks as a rookie, Texans coach Dom Capers still holds out hope that the deal will eventually even up.

“We think he’s got a bright future,” Capers said. “He started and played every game for us last year. And really the injury affected what we had to do, more than anything else, this year. But, we’ve got high expectations for Jason.”

Sad part is they still think Babin was worth it???? that alone should get somebody fired.

http://www.nashvillecitypaper.com/index.cfm?section_id=43&screen=news&news_id=44961

texan279
10-06-2005, 09:05 AM
Big deal, so guys who were drafted have contributed. I mean jeez, didn't you guys sign like 30 undrafted free agents too? They could sign me and I could contribute.

TEXANS84
10-06-2005, 09:21 AM
Trust me bongo, we know. We sent draft picks all over the place for Babin and Buchanon (who have been demoted).

The Joppru thing we could have never predicted.

nunusguy
10-06-2005, 09:22 AM
"As for Babin, who had four sacks as a rookie, Texans coach Dom Capers still holds out hope that the deal will eventually even up.
“We think he’s got a bright future,” Capers said. “He started and played every game for us last year. And really the injury affected what we had to do, more than anything else, this year. But, we’ve got high expectations for Jason.”
Sad part is they still think Babin was worth it???? that alone should get somebody fired."
*******************************************
I dunno.....these remarks are analogous to George W. saying he still doesn't regret the invasion of Iraq. We all know that both those arguments are illogical and downright silly at this point in time.
This trade won't sink the franchise, but fit still has the same kind of tones about it as the infamous trade between the Cowboys and Vikings (infamous
for the Vikings, gloriously famous for the other team). Fortunately for the Texans, its only a mini version of the Cowboys-Vikings exchange.

exclude
10-06-2005, 09:23 AM
Big deal, so guys who were drafted have contributed. I mean jeez, didn't you guys sign like 30 undrafted free agents too? They could sign me and I could contribute.

It is a big deal. The Steelers, Pats, and Colts are all winning with homegrown talent. The fact that we don't have many of our draft picks starting, much less making the team, speaks volumes of how ****** our scouting dept is.

ledzeppelin229
10-06-2005, 10:35 AM
Coaching could be just as much to blame for players not producing like we hoped.
Two Words - Steve Foley.

bckey
10-06-2005, 07:57 PM
We all know that both those arguments are illogical and downright silly at this point in time.


I don't.

texan279
10-06-2005, 08:33 PM
It is a big deal. The Steelers, Pats, and Colts are all winning with homegrown talent. The fact that we don't have many of our draft picks starting, much less making the team, speaks volumes of how ****** our scouting dept is.

The point I was trying to get across is that except for 1 or 2 positions, the tacks have no talent, so it is not surprising these guys are contributing in one way or another. I am not saying it is bad for drafted players to contribute, but look how many undrafted free agents they signed too this past offseason.

Scooter
10-06-2005, 08:51 PM
“It depends on the complexion of your team,” he said. “In the situation we were in, we would rather have the four picks, because you would hope that all four picks would be able to come in and help you to a certain degree.

“Now, if you feel like you’ve got 21 of your 22 players already on the roster, and you need one guy, and he’s there, then you probably make the deal.”



this is what's skipped over. were we 1 or 2 players away from being in the superbowl? not even close. look at what happened ... we lost several draft picks, one of which could have made an impact in starks or troupe in areas we're lacking. then we pass up on DJ in this draft who by most accounts had no chance to get to us and had zero chance getting past us, and outside of holding onto hope with mathis what else do we have to show for this & last years drafts except for a cb (best pick of casserly's career in all honesty) & a backup DE. with the wasted picks on buchannon we could've landed odell thurman at the least (hindsight on that one for some of us).

the funny part though ... in hindsight, this board has been dead on (outside of exotic trading up).

HJam72
10-07-2005, 02:28 AM
the funny part though ... in hindsight, this board has been dead on (outside of exotic trading up).

Someday, in a galaxy far far away, they'll catch onto that and take advantage of it. :texans:

texan279
10-07-2005, 03:07 AM
You gotta give Babin until at least the end of the season. I mean he had a decent rookie season. There's only so much you can do when you're told to drop into coverage the majority of the time.

johnboy
10-07-2005, 05:26 AM
You gotta give Babin until at least the end of the season. I mean he had a decent rookie season. There's only so much you can do when you're told to drop into coverage the majority of the time.


People Babin was injured in the third pre season game.He tryed to play didn't do well and they removed him from the number one unit. Looking at last years stats he did Ok,he was learning how to play LB. and he learned on the go.Did everyone really expected him to make All Pro the first year.if the Texans didn't move up in the draft Babin would be playing for New England they had pick number 30 or 31 maybe everyone would have been better off the Texans and everyone on this board and Babin thats the way it goes.

texan279
10-07-2005, 05:33 AM
People Babin was injured in the third pre season game.He tryed to play didn't do well and they removed him from the number one unit. Looking at last years stats he did Ok,he was learning how to play LB. and he learned on the go.Did everyone really expected him to make All Pro the first year.if the Texans didn't move up in the draft Babin would be playing for New England they had pick number 30 or 31 maybe everyone would have been better off the Texans and everyone on this board and Babin thats the way it goes.

Great post.

Hervoyel
10-07-2005, 07:20 AM
In all honesty on Babin the jury is still out and will remain out for the rest of this year and probably most of next year. Yes things do not look particularly good right now. It certainly doesn't look like this was a good idea. On the other hand Kevin Greene wasn't "Kevin Greene" for quite some time. Babin could still be something, we just don't know yet. Saying someone should get fired because they think that Babin might still become the player they hoped for is in itself pretty stupid.

There are plenty of other legitimate reasons to want Capers fired, believe me.

Bongo59
10-07-2005, 12:16 PM
You gotta give Babin until at least the end of the season. I mean he had a decent rookie season. There's only so much you can do when you're told to drop into coverage the majority of the time.we drafted Laboy in round two and he missed half the yr and still recorded 3.5 sacks as a back up DE............and Starks played six games and lead all DT rookies in sacks last yr.................The Houston texans have drafted in the top ten of the draft their entire existence............and contrary to what you think the titans have more talent after this cap purge than you do now............we are 1-3 but we played three great D's...............we are going through change no doubt..........but you guys are supposed to be ascending after 4 yrs of high drafting...............If CCasserly keeps his job the Houston Texans will become this decades Cinn Bengals.................that is how bad things are....................

GP
10-07-2005, 05:19 PM
This coming draft is supposed to be heavy in the area of offensive linemen, and I predict we take an o lineman with our first round draft pick.

And face it (whether you like it or not) this team's management will ALWAYS trade around in the first two rounds. The more I think about it, the more I think it is so they can look like they are geniuses and are making all kinds of deals that score us better talent in the end...but I think the Babin trade-around situation and how it's panned out will definitely influence Casserly in the next draft--In short, Casserly probably will dial down the itchy trigger finger on trading around in the first few rounds after failing miserably with the Babin deal.

It was a bad deal. Babin seems like a nice enough guy, and I honestly rooted for him form the beginning...but he's just not adapting or growing into the caliber of player that you acquire the way we acquired him. We won't always admit it openly because it elevates the Titians and lowers our self esteem...but it's the truth people. Who here would do that all over again if they were transported back to the draft and could be Texans draft manager for a day? They gambled. It failed BADLY. And I bet we see more conservative drafting strategy in the next draft.

If not, then I will definitely change my attitude about Casserly and I'll be forced to jump on the FIRE CASSERLY bandwagon. It's time to stop the draft day dealing and just pick your guy when it comes to you. The way we're playing, we'll be drafting Top 10 easily and there's NO reason we don't pick up a stud o linemen when the other Top 10 drafting teams will most likely be taking a QB or RB or WR (example: Detroit).

I want to see us bank on Car, DD, AJ, and Gaff/Armstrong...and spend our next few years' picks on o linemen that can START from day one. If that happens, we legitimately have a shot of contending for a Super Bowl in about 3 years. All our young players will be in the prime of their careers, with a few years of cushion to get it done.

It's all cyclical in the NFL as to how you build your team and wait several years to be able to contend for the championship, and it's not too late for this team's drafting dept. to buckle down and make the boring picks for the next few years (example: New England). Just pick the big blob each draft for the next 2-3 years. I know he can't dance and he doesn't have silver-capped teeth, but the big blob will protect the QB and that's what we need right now.

Casserly: Pick the best-rated big blob that's still on the board when it's our turn to draft. I know it's a snoozer of a pick, but it's the right thing to do. Repeat this step for the next 2 years. Lastly: send me a portion of your paycheck when we're winning Super Bowls 3-5 years from now.

Crank_It_Up
10-07-2005, 05:37 PM
This coming draft is supposed to be heavy in the area of offensive linemen, and I predict we take an o lineman with our first round draft pick.

...Casserly: Pick the best-rated big blob that's still on the board when it's our turn to draft. I know it's a snoozer of a pick, but it's the right thing to do. Repeat this step for the next 2 years. Lastly: send me a portion of your paycheck when we're winning Super Bowls 3-5 years from now.
maybe we could score a 2nd decent linemen next year by trading P-buc to some fool.

angeltexus
10-07-2005, 06:03 PM
I still keep rewinding my tape. 1st, 2nd, 3rd downs Babins hears HIKE! HIKE! next thing you know he's on the ground getting run over by a lineman. To slow to go around and to weak to bull rush. I think I like it cause now I don't have to see our beloved uniform on the floor the whole game. Just keep the bench warm Babin and your doing your job.

Vinny
10-08-2005, 05:34 AM
maybe we could score a 2nd decent linemen next year by trading P-buc to some fool.
What team will Casserly be running next year?

Honoring Earl 34
10-08-2005, 05:48 AM
:texflag: I wonder how Leinert ranks among QBs who were considered # 1 picks . All the bad teams have young highly picked QBs . If the Texans season goes the way its going we may hold a pick that we can get a kings ransom for by trading to a team who is only looking for a young QB.

ArlingtonTexan
10-08-2005, 05:58 AM
This was a quote from Reese, not anyone from the Texans. He was speaking in hypotheticals. This is why no one else addressed this quote.

I agree with Scooter. Reese's hypotheticals are the meat of the article.

The point really is that the Texans were more than 1 player away from contention. In fact, arguement could have been made (and was at the time) that the Texans should been looking to make a deal getting those types of picks instead of giving them away. Reese is really making a criticism of Casserly through this comment.

The error of not understanding where your franchise is worse than picking the wrong player. Heck, even if Babin turns out to be a 10 sack player that alone would not make the Texans a playoff contender. At the end of the day, this is question that Casserly should have asked himself. If this player works out, does he make the team a playoff contender?

Then again, if you think all of your other player moves are correct then you could come up with the wrong answer.

dalemurphy
10-08-2005, 07:51 PM
The answer isn't simple. It's impossible to know how much of the problem is personnel decisions, how much is scheme, how much is poor coaching/teaching/motivating. Furthermore, it's difficult to know who had the input in decisions like Buchanan and Babin. Pernhaps Capers swore that this guy would be the one essential for them to be dominant on defense. I'm not defending Casserly. I'm just illustrating the depth of our problems. It's a lot more complicated than one quick fix, UNFORTUNATELY.

Bongo59
10-09-2005, 07:44 AM
I agree with Scooter. Reese's hypotheticals are the meat of the article.

The point really is that the Texans were more than 1 player away from contention. In fact, arguement could have been made (and was at the time) that the Texans should been looking to make a deal getting those types of picks instead of giving them away. Reese is really making a criticism of Casserly through this comment.

The error of not understanding where your franchise is worse than picking the wrong player. Heck, even if Babin turns out to be a 10 sack player that alone would not make the Texans a playoff contender. At the end of the day, this is question that Casserly should have asked himself. If this player works out, does he make the team a playoff contender?

Then again, if you think all of your other player moves are correct then you could come up with the wrong answer.

............finally a texan fan with perspective............

yaboycm
10-09-2005, 10:20 AM
This exemplifies one of many reasons why the texans are where they are............the horrible drafting. Starts with Carr and you can add Wand Joppru Hollings wells and their recent trades.......with Babin and Pbuch...........Casserly is the problem. The cupboard is bare.



Sad part is they still think Babin was worth it???? that alone should get somebody fired.

http://www.nashvillecitypaper.com/index.cfm?section_id=43&screen=news&news_id=44961

THIS IS ONE OF THE MANY REASONS WHY CASSERLY NEEDS TO BE FIRED!!!!!!!!!!!
HE HELPS OUT OTHER TEAMS NEVER HELPS OUT HIS OWN