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infantrycak
10-05-2005, 02:56 PM
According to 610 am they have been playing around today on the OL at practice.

Pitts LT, McKinney LG, Hodgden C, Wade RG Wiegert RT.

I am sure the party line is we are just being prepared, but something is being contemplated.

This is looking like a nightmare to me. Let's see, Riley could beat Wand out but now isn't worth being on the OL. Wade, who clearly isn't a G is now going to play, yup G and Wiegert who was tried and failed at RT before is going to play, yup RT. So let's see we have three guys brought in to play T--Wand, Wade & Riley--none playing at T. A guy brought in to play G at T. A guy brought in to play T at G. Oh and a guy brought in to play C at G.

When David Carr runs on to the field it should be a solo intro to Welcome to the Jungle and he should run in from the visiting team tunnel.

Runner
10-05-2005, 03:03 PM
According to 610 am they have been playing around today on the OL at practice.

Pitts LT, McKinney LG, Hodgden C, Wade RG Wiegert RT.

I am sure the party line is we are just being prepared, but something is being contemplated.

This is looking like a nightmare to me. Let's see, Riley could beat Wand out but now isn't worth being on the OL. Wade, who clearly isn't a G is now going to play, yup G and Wiegert who was tried and failed at RT before is going to play, yup RT. So let's see we have three guys brought in to play T--Wand, Wade & Riley--none playing at T. A guy brought in to play G at T. A guy brought in to play T at G. Oh and a guy brought in to play C at G.

When David Carr runs on to the field it should be a solo intro to Welcome to the Jungle and he should run in from the visiting team tunnel.

That summary is just about what I thought when I heard it on the radio today. Sounds like they are just messing around a bit. I especially can't see Wade at guard. That could be pretty bad, given his build.

nunusguy
10-05-2005, 03:04 PM
Pitts LT, McKinney LG, Hodgden C, Wade RG Wiegert RT.

Our best LT playing LT and not LG - Brilliant ! And the Arizona State rook in
at Center - why not ?

Porky
10-05-2005, 03:14 PM
Just another day at the office for the most clueless coaching staff this side of Pluto. :ok:

Vinny
10-05-2005, 03:17 PM
I heard it too...we are run by a team of monkeys.

Exascor
10-05-2005, 03:22 PM
It just shows the extreme versatility of our linemen! What genious was able to secure that many linemen that can play other positions? Wow!

Pitts and Hodgdon I'm OK with. Leave Weigert and Wade at their current positions. McKinney...if he's the best option at LG then alright. I'd rather Brown but whatever. Change is good sometimes.

the wonger need food
10-05-2005, 03:24 PM
Just another day at the office for the most clueless coaching staff this side of Pluto. :ok:

"Best Post of the Season" candidate right there.

Double Barrel
10-05-2005, 03:24 PM
When David Carr runs on to the field it should be a solo intro to Welcome to the Jungle and he should run in from the visiting team tunnel.

HA! Maybe even have Toro tackle him from the top of the stadium via high wire. :heh:

So what, exactly, is the point of musical linemen? I'm not sure I follow what they are trying to accomplish here, especially in light of the fact that they probably need all the practice they can get at their regular positions. :confused:

texan279
10-05-2005, 03:25 PM
Sounds like the O line was playing musical chairs at practice today...honestly....nevermind I'm speechless...

SESupergenius
10-05-2005, 03:26 PM
Nah c'mon, it's David Carrs fault

beerlover
10-05-2005, 03:26 PM
hey if the Bengals can lose their starting center during the game then his back-up as well and still protect Carson Palmer then why can't the Texans? :tomato:

Vinny
10-05-2005, 03:27 PM
Pitts and Hodgdon I'm OK with. Leave Weigert and Wade at their current positions. McKinney...if he's the best option at LG then alright. I'd rather Brown but whatever. Change is good sometimes.To me, Hodgdon didn't look like an NFL starter in preseason and Brown has been inconsistant at best and this may be hard to digest...but McKinney is having a pretty decent year so far....in comes Hainsworth though. No way I'd put Brown in over McKinney at this point.

wrestler4life
10-05-2005, 03:28 PM
hey if the Bengals can lose their starting center during the game then his back-up as well and still protect Carson Palmer then why can't the Texans? :tomato:
The Bengals, or any team for that matter, could have only 4 linemen, and they would still not only be able to protect their QB, but they could do it better than us!

Vinny
10-05-2005, 03:29 PM
HA! Maybe even have Toro tackle him from the top of the stadium via high wire. :heh:

So what, exactly, is the point of musical linemen? I'm not sure I follow what they are trying to accomplish here, especially in light of the fact that they probably need all the practice they can get at their regular positions. :confused:Jobs are on the line. This is Capers last 13 games if this snowball continues down hill.

Double Barrel
10-05-2005, 03:34 PM
Jobs are on the line. This is Capers last 13 games if this snowball continues down hill.

yeah, no doubt about it. The natives are getting restless!

So is this the last acts of desperation? Throw anything and see what sticks?

Man, if that's the case, I might have to see if there's any room on that "fire Caper's" badwagon, too... ;)

Vinny
10-05-2005, 03:38 PM
yeah, no doubt about it. The natives are getting restless!

So is this the last acts of desperation? Throw anything and see what sticks?perhaps it's more honest. Could we be forcing players in that Casserly brings so he doesn't look bad? Riley is our starting LT but all of a sudden he can't break the starting line up? We have brought in Young, Robinson-Randall, and Wade to play RT as well. All chumps so far. Who have we brought in to play LT in 4 years? We drafted a project in Wand and brought in a RT who had a history of underachievment in Riley. Pitts has played the LT as well as anyone on this roster but we force Riley in there still. Year 4 is defining this franchise build.

Exascor
10-05-2005, 03:41 PM
To me, Hodgdon didn't look like an NFL starter in preseason and Brown has been inconsistant at best and this may be hard to digest...but McKinney is having a pretty decent year so far....in comes Hainsworth though. No way I'd put Brown in over McKinney at this point.I'll trust you on Hodgdon because I really didn't get to see enough of him. Heck, I'm fine with McKinney @ LG as well. The key factor is we can't do any worse.

Runner
10-05-2005, 03:44 PM
Whatever they do, they sure aren't going to see what the starting LT in all 16 games last year has in the tank. If that "project" has actually improved, which is what a project is supposed to do, they might appear foolish for not playing him in the first place.

Let's move 5 guys instead! Brilliant!

Exascor
10-05-2005, 03:44 PM
Year 4 is defining this franchise build.Yes it is unfortunately. Embarrassing

nunusguy
10-05-2005, 03:47 PM
Jobs are on the line. This is Capers last 13 games if this snowball continues down hill.
No kidding ! At this point I suspect its up to Capers to do something,
anything by the end of the season to "change" McNairs mind about firing him with extreme prejudice in the offseason.

Wolf
10-05-2005, 03:50 PM
To me it seemed like our defense was better in 2002 than in 2005(so far)

Double Barrel
10-05-2005, 04:14 PM
I was thinking about the same thing, Wolf. Especially the defense that won the Steelers game, setting a record for a winning team with the lowest offensive production (something like 47 total yards).

We definitely seem like we are regressing, and have lost the aggressiveness that our D was showing the first couple of years. But I guess losing veteran players like Posey, Foreman, Sharper, and Glenn will do that to a team. idonno:

infantrycak
10-05-2005, 04:18 PM
I heard it too...we are run by a team of monkeys.

Seriously. I want to hire Coach_C as the OL coach. Is he Houck compared to these guys?

the wonger need food
10-05-2005, 04:18 PM
To me it seemed like our defense was better in 2002 than in 2005(so far)

Maybe the offense too... Any chance we can re-sign Jimmy Herndon?

keyfro
10-05-2005, 04:20 PM
i could understand one move on the oline...but not the entire freakin line...i mean this is a little dramatic for o-line shuffle...if you think riley is struggling too much put wand out there...i mean come on the entire line shuffles around this is just pathetic

infantrycak
10-05-2005, 04:21 PM
Whatever they do, they sure aren't going to see what the starting LT in all 16 games last year has in the tank.

Yup, sorry, but either the coaches were censorables (not going to spend the time to see if that is a word) last year for thinking Wand could do the job or the coaches are censorables this year for thinking he isn't even in consideration. The OL is getting comical if it wasn't involving 10 or so jobs, any of which I would love to have.

AndreJ
10-05-2005, 04:26 PM
When David Carr runs on to the field it should be a solo intro to Welcome to the Jungle and he should run in from the visiting team tunnel.

LMF@O!!!!!!! Brilliant...

Wolf
10-05-2005, 04:30 PM
Being we can't get a pass rush and we can't protect Carr maybe the secret is to let Robaire Smith play Tackle .. Payne play Center (being he ties up 2 guys anyway) and have Walker at RT Tj at the guard spot.

defensively we move Riley,Pitts,Mckinney,Wand and Weigart to the defensive side of the ball .... They then could fight for 3 starting spots instead of 5


Also this kills 2 birds with one stone.. we would now have a OL that wouldn't let the QB get pressured or touched and we have a Defensive line.. that knows how to get a QB sacked (heck 20 sacks in 3 games)


PBuck would be inserted into the lineup when we run screens .. He would also teach the guys the "ole' " technique of letting a guy through

wrestler4life
10-05-2005, 04:35 PM
No kidding ! At this point I suspect its up to Capers to do something,
anything by the end of the season to "change" McNairs mind about firing him with extreme prejudice in the offseason.

Yeah, but to me this just shows that he has or had even less of a clue about this team and how it should be put together. If you are having to do a complete overhaul after only 3 games and no injuries, then you must have done a pretty ****** job during the offseason and preseason getting the best players in the line-up and ready for the season. :bomb:

ghostlight
10-05-2005, 04:38 PM
If the talent is not there,then it doesn't matter how you line them up.

Honoring Earl 34
10-05-2005, 05:14 PM
:texflag: Either we have a talent problem or the worst blocking scheme in history . I guess if Carr has a knack for holding the ball it magnifies the obvious .
Its amazing that we've had these problems for four years now . It just makes you tired that this is still an issue .

blockhead83
10-05-2005, 06:37 PM
Whenever a franchise is born you always hear analysts preaching that a team should build itself from the lines out. Casserly and Co. echoed those sentiments and made an apparent aggressive move toward ensuring our OLine when he took Boselli from the supplemental draft. The problem is they haven't paid serious attention to upgrading the line since then, regardless of whether or not they named it among their top priorities heading into the offseason. I personally think we have enough talent to atleast be closer to the middle of the pack in terms of pass blocking, but after four years they have yet to come close to fixing this problem, and it's really frustrating at this point. The entire Texans coaching staff and management have absolutely failed to fix this club's greatest achilles heel for four consecutive years. Some of the blame falls on Carr for having almost non-existent pocket presence (or an extremely hyper-sensitive pocket presense, however you want to look at it), but to think that after claiming to be trying to fix this for the franchise's entire existence, and we're still having the same problems, if not worse..... There's something seriously wrong with this team from the personnel to the top (excluding McNair, he's probably 10x more frustrated with the situation than we are, considering he's paying the bills and he asked them to fix the situation).

I thought for a bit that Capers would get his five years regardless of our performance, but this blatant failure in an area that everyone in the nation knows is our major pitfall is inexcusable. I think Capers gets the boot after this season barring any miraculous turn arounds. Oh, and on the topic of the.....topic, just the fact that they're tinkering with such a massive game of musical chairs along the OLine shows you that they're becoming exceedingly desperate. Forget whatever consistency they were supposed to develop from playing beside one another for an extended period of time. And those statements they're making about the OLine not yielding many sacks are obviously a load of ****. If they didn't think the OLine was underperforming as badly as we did, they wouldn't be attempting to make ridiculous changes like this mid-season.

Crank_It_Up
10-05-2005, 07:05 PM
why not make P-buc the Q-back... as much as he hates contact, he'd never get touched.

done88
10-05-2005, 07:22 PM
The o-line could not be a lot worse. Mckinney was a darn good guard for the colts. I think Pitts played better when he was at Tackle. Wade and Weigert can flip flop as long as they figure out some way to get the job done.

nunusguy
10-05-2005, 07:26 PM
why not make P-buc the Q-back... as much as he hates contact, he'd never get touched.
Did you see PB last weekend against the Bengals, now I'm not gonna say he looked like the second coming of Jack Tatum, but he actually got a couple good pops in !

profan
10-05-2005, 07:49 PM
I dont see what you are all getting upset about. The oline has given up 20 sacks and has not done the job. After three games, its obvious this combination is not working. I'm look forward to the change. I mean how much worse can it get. My problem is this should have been adressed in the preseason. It appears this off season and preseason has been fruitless and just a waste of time.

chuckm
10-06-2005, 05:50 AM
I could be way off base on this but I'm starting to come over to the "our coaching staff sucks" camp. I watch around the league where other teams have decent enough lines season after season. I agree that our talent isn't the best but IMO the OL is one place where coaching can make a REAL difference. True we don't have a franchise LT but then again how many teams do?

I dunno .... I find myself hoping for a scorched Earth season so we can start off nice and fresh and green next year.




Seriously. I want to hire Coach_C as the OL coach. Is he Houck compared to these guys?

touttail
10-06-2005, 05:57 AM
The article in the Chronicle claims this monkeying with the OLine is in case of injuries preparing them to play other positions-LOL.

bobby 119C

Vinny
10-06-2005, 06:33 AM
Wow, you've sure changed your tune. You always claimed the coaching staff was great and the o-line just needed more time to gel. I guess the 0-3 start has you taking off the rose-colored glasses. It's about time.No, I wait till I see results on the field. I don't just create positions out of assumptions. The team made some decisions over their build and I am patient enough to see if they work out.

This is year 4 so this is the time to start looking at our build as it hits the field. I can't give an expansion team grief in the first two years and year 3 was a year that we were playing .500 ball. Every year is unique but unfolds rapidly. Once you see the results on the field it's fair to start to create new opinions.

Runner
10-06-2005, 06:39 AM
The article in the Chronicle claims this monkeying with the OLine is in case of injuries preparing them to play other positions-LOL.

bobby 119C

Whew! For a minute I thought they going to monkey around with it to improve it.

MorKnolle
10-06-2005, 06:50 AM
The article in the Chronicle claims this monkeying with the OLine is in case of injuries preparing them to play other positions-LOL.

bobby 119C
Yes, this was a temporary shift in practice for a few plays to give them a bit of experience at different positions and to rest some of them for a minute. I do however feel that Pitts would be better than Riley at LT since he is more athletic, Riley is more of a slow, stronger OLineman that should be at LG or RG to help with run blocking.

Texans Horror
10-06-2005, 08:29 AM
Why not try to shift players around? The idea behind keeping the same line together is that they start to gel. The glue obviously ain't holding, so shake the team up. See if anything works better. What's the worst that could happen? Lose a game? Season-ending injury causing them to spiral out of first? :)

exclude
10-06-2005, 08:37 AM
Why not try to shift players around? The idea behind keeping the same line together is that they start to gel. The glue obviously ain't holding, so shake the team up. See if anything works better. What's the worst that could happen? Lose a game? Season-ending injury causing them to spiral out of first? :)

That's true. I say shake it up and see what shakes out.

What else can we do??? :bomb:

texan279
10-06-2005, 08:40 AM
What else can we do???

Well they played musical chairs yesterday, why not the hokey pokey or the chicken dance today? :yahoo:

Ibar_Harry
10-06-2005, 11:48 AM
I heard it too...we are run by a team of monkeys.

Can I quote you on that one Vinny. Vinny I still say its Capers and his coaches that are the problem and not Casserly or McNair. They are being taken down by this man and they simply won't say get lost. The COACHING decisions are beyond belief. But then again I've being saying I told you so for a long time.

Its not that they are trying to make adjustments its how they are going about it. This should have been forseen long ago. The adjustments should have been made in the mini camps and TC. Strangely we might be better off with Wand in there, but may be his confidence - what there was - is gone. Then again it wouldn't matter, because there's no coaching anyway.

HardKnockTexan
10-06-2005, 11:55 AM
Any change to the line is fine for me. There are some possitives in those moves. McKinney played guard for Indy (and played well as I understand it). Pitts was his at his best when playing at Left Tackle. I'm not sure about Hogdon. Maybe get him some snaps in practice and see how he performs. Wade and Weigert should both be on the field. They are 2 of the 5 best we have to offer.

Vinny
10-06-2005, 11:55 AM
I think it's more of a lack of talent than coaching Ibar...but Coaching is close behind. I'd put more blame on Casserly than Capers at this point....but I'm ready to get rid of them all.

Ibar_Harry
10-06-2005, 12:01 PM
I'm going to go back to my comments about year 2. If you remember, at the end of that year we looked like we were starting to come around. All of us were looking forward to year 3.

However, in the off season Capers made the decision to change to a different blocking scheme for which he had no players. The result has been the loss of any assemblance of an O-line, because the players we have do not fit well into that particular scheme. I'm sorry, but I firmly believe the problem is Capers and all his coaches save for special teams. Please look closely and I think you will find a whole host of coaching mistakes. Where did McKinney play at Baltimore? Guard of course and they had him play C for us. Washington who played Center and in the SB is out and hardly ever seen. Is that because he's so bad or does he not fit into the new scheme? Strangely Wiegert did play some left tackle, but he has been so injured that he has been a non-starter for a good period of time. Take a hard look and I think you will come to the conclusion that the O-line has been totaly mismanaged. I still think these players have ability, but not the way they are being coached. Its sad that people are once again coming to the same conclusion.

wrestler4life
10-06-2005, 12:05 PM
Good post. I agree. I think that he had a good idea about changing to a zone scheme, but then he and Casserly should have gotten the personel to best initiate that system.

Ibar_Harry
10-06-2005, 12:06 PM
I think it's more of a lack of talent than coaching Ibar...but Coaching is close behind. I'd put more blame on Casserly than Capers at this point....but I'm ready to get rid of them all.

I can understand why you feel that way Vinny, but I think Capers is a bigger problem than you think. Change the coaching staff and the emphasis on what is needed and I think Casserly will continue to do a good job. I still believe Capers has forced more of the picks than you think. I still think the basic startup was wrong based on the way Capers likes to do things. I believe this first attempt was dummed from the start, sad to say. Wouldn't have thought so, but hindsight kind of suggest it.

Double Barrel
10-06-2005, 01:28 PM
I wished I had saved the article, but I remember reading an op-ed piece about Buchanan and Babin being Caper's choices, which Casserly objected to but made the deal for them for his HC anyway. I don't know how true this is, but judging from the comments on the board, it seems more truth than fiction.

Runner
10-06-2005, 01:34 PM
I can understand why you feel that way Vinny, but I think Capers is a bigger problem than you think. Change the coaching staff and the emphasis on what is needed and I think Casserly will continue to do a good job. I still believe Capers has forced more of the picks than you think. I still think the basic startup was wrong based on the way Capers likes to do things. I believe this first attempt was dummed from the start, sad to say. Wouldn't have thought so, but hindsight kind of suggest it.

I'd also have to say the coaching staff needs to shoulder a good portion of the blame. The list of players that have improved and stayed improved (not just peaked for a few games) after joining the Texans is short indeed. It is the coach's responsibility to take them to higher levels.

TEXANS84
10-06-2005, 01:47 PM
I can understand why you feel that way Vinny, but I think Capers is a bigger problem than you think. Change the coaching staff and the emphasis on what is needed and I think Casserly will continue to do a good job.

There is no way that Casserly forced picks on Dom Capers. If you looked on the draft room webcam, Casserly was always there, I rarely saw Capers.

4 draft picks for players that are currently sitting on the bench is unacceptable. And as Hookem pointed out in another thread, many people mix up Casserly for bringing the championships to Washington. The teams were already fielded by the time he took over.

Like they say, the **** rolls uphill, and Casserly is atop that mountain.

Hervoyel
10-06-2005, 01:49 PM
Man, if that's the case, I might have to see if there's any room on that "fire Caper's" badwagon, too... ;)


I've got your avatar right here man. As soon as you're ready to join up.

Exascor
10-06-2005, 02:07 PM
I think the o-line problems are about 45% players, 45% coaches and 10% GM. Ibar makes sense that the blocking scheme change doesn't seem to make much sense. That falls on the coaching staff. The players are average at best no matter what the scheme. That falls on the players, coaches and the GM.

eriadoc
10-06-2005, 02:20 PM
I think it's more of a lack of talent than coaching Ibar...but Coaching is close behind. I'd put more blame on Casserly than Capers at this point....but I'm ready to get rid of them all.

I'll start by saying that I obviously don't know anything. But I will say this - other teams plug in guys and cruise right along. The Colts are playing two second-year guys (Jake Scott and Ryan Lilja) that were not 1st round picks, not media-hyped to be the next coming of Boselli or whoever, and they're doing the job. Cincy lost two centers in the game against us, plugged in a guy at Center who had never played the position, and they chugged right along and beat us. The Chargers are starting two second year guys and a third year guy and I've never heard of any of them. Maybe our scouting team is not better than theirs, but I think a larger portion of the blame should go to the coaches for mismanaging them.

z0rpAn
10-06-2005, 02:43 PM
I've got your avatar right here man. As soon as you're ready to join up.

may i? ive been anxious to ask

touttail
10-06-2005, 03:20 PM
I think it's more of a lack of talent than coaching Ibar...but Coaching is close behind. I'd put more blame on Casserly than Capers at this point....but I'm ready to get rid of them all.

Capers was hired ONLY because he was organized(skills) enough to start a team from scratch like Carolina. He wasn't hired for his coaching abilities. He organized a team so now stick a fork in him. He apparently can't coach!

bobby 119C :brickwall

wrestler4life
10-06-2005, 03:26 PM
I'll start by saying that I obviously don't know anything. But I will say this - other teams plug in guys and cruise right along. The Colts are playing two second-year guys (Jake Scott and Ryan Lilja) that were not 1st round picks, not media-hyped to be the next coming of Boselli or whoever, and they're doing the job. Cincy lost two centers in the game against us, plugged in a guy at Center who had never played the position, and they chugged right along and beat us. The Chargers are starting two second year guys and a third year guy and I've never heard of any of them. Maybe our scouting team is not better than theirs, but I think a larger portion of the blame should go to the coaches for mismanaging them.

I agree. And the sad thing is that the guy mismanaging them is now running our offense?!

texan279
10-06-2005, 05:00 PM
However, in the off season Capers made the decision to change to a different blocking scheme for which he had no players. The result has been the loss of any assemblance of an O-line, because the players we have do not fit well into that particular scheme.

I thought the zone blocking had nothing to do with our pass blocking?

beerlover
10-06-2005, 06:04 PM
I disagree that Capers is a bad coach, he is just quilty of bad judgement & loyalty to his associates :wacko:

keyfro
10-06-2005, 06:23 PM
if we're going to play the blame game let's leave out the owner bob mcnair...he has been the ideal owner...not getting involved like jerry has...as for casserly and the coaches that's a different story...i don't care if capers was asking him to bring in babin or pbuc...i doesn't matter...casserly has been around the league long enough to know a good player...he traded too much to get those two guys and that is considered his downfall...not the guys he missed in the draft...because 31 other teams missed that player too...as far as capers goes i hate...ABSOLUTELY HATE when i hear we're playing not to lose...srew that man...let's play to win...get these guys motivated to play...keep the scheme's simply...lace up the cleats and GATA (get after their ***)...no more of this let's prepare and over analyze things...just play the game

infantrycak
10-06-2005, 06:34 PM
I thought the zone blocking had nothing to do with our pass blocking?

You are correct, but no matter how many times you tell some people (Ibar for example) they will keep on bringing it up as the down fall of the pass blocking.

infantrycak
10-06-2005, 06:40 PM
casserly has been around the league long enough to know a good player...he traded too much to get those two guys and that is considered his downfall...

Kind of, IMO. Not every player is right for every system. Specialized systems run by some coaches will best run with certain type players. The specialist who runs or designed that system should know best what is needed far more than a general NFL guy like Casserly. That makes it natural for Capers/Fangio to go to Casserly and say Babin is what we really need to implement what we want to do on D, get him if you can. The flip side is Casserly shouldn't blindly go Christmas shopping for the coach. Once the deal gets too rich to move up he should turn to the coach and say sorry we are going to have to gamble to see if he drops or find a replacement later. The letter to Santa may be Capers', but Casserly was the dad that decided to pay the price for the gift.

nunusguy
10-06-2005, 06:56 PM
Once the deal gets too rich to move up he should turn to the coach and say sorry we are going to have to gamble to see if he drops or find a replacement later.
And that's why Cass has got to bear a large part of the blame for the Babin
deal, even if he was indifferent about Babin to start with. He's the one who
in control of the Draft picks and has got to exercise some discipline.

texasguy346
10-06-2005, 07:42 PM
The letter to Santa may be Capers', but Casserly was the dad that decided to pay the price for the gift.

I smell a new sig.

*Edit* Curses...too long.

Ibar_Harry
10-06-2005, 10:53 PM
You are correct, but no matter how many times you tell some people (Ibar for example) they will keep on bringing it up as the down fall of the pass blocking.

It does, but you can't convince them that it doesn't. Changes the gaps among other things and that's why Denver needs a roll out passer to avoid the rush. I believe the principle is that you move your pocket, but the zone blocking scheme requires a QB to move around. Its not designed to take advantage of the passing attack. Its designed for the running game. Anyway that was the beginning of our downfall whether you like it or not...........

Ibar_Harry
10-06-2005, 11:02 PM
In addition the kind of personnel required to operate out of the zone blocking scheme is different from the traditional blocking scheme if we could use that term. Zone blocking utilizes smaller quicker players which we did not have. That is why I keep saying if you look at the team you will see that Capers does not utilize and adapt to the players talents. He tries to make them fit into his scheme even when its not possible.

beerlover
10-07-2005, 01:35 AM
In addition the kind of personnel required to operate out of the zone blocking scheme is different from the traditional blocking scheme if we could use that term. Zone blocking utilizes smaller quicker players which we did not have. That is why I keep saying if you look at the team you will see that Capers does not utilize and adapt to the players talents. He tries to make them fit into his scheme even when its not possible.

Zone blocking does not require smaller quicker players its just that teams use this scheme becasue they lack the size for traditional blocking schemes (the pocket QB). The one thing zone blocking is supposed to enhance is a dominant running game, even when they stack the box you should avg. 3-4 yards per carry. So if the Texans use the zone blocking and are effective Davis should be rushing for around 100 yards a game (or feature back). But whats happening is the line is getting blown up, losing any penetration to make it work and collapsing around the corners. sometimes when David feels the pressure he reacts to the left and he's unable to throw across his body with pursit on his backside. other times its a delayed blitz when one or two rushers come up the middle un-blocked.

Zone blocking will not help the situation until the Texans commit to the run regardless of size or mobility & that is the best solution to keeping the heat off of Carr.

rittenhouserobz
10-07-2005, 04:35 AM
Here is my opinion on the O-line. I remember that in 2003 the Texans were improving the protection and the rushing yards were on the rise. Why else would DD say he was going to get 2000 yards rushing? 2004 comes around. "Geuss what everyone? There is a great zone-blocking scheme and it will increase production in the running game." Now its 2005. Defenses have schemed to beat the zone-blocking and are stuffing our rushing game with 4 DL as well as blitzing with success, thus leaving the remaining 7 for pass defense. (That means they can triple cover AJ)

The big question. When is Pendry going to fail miserably so we can get back to what really worked for the Texans?

aj.
10-07-2005, 04:45 AM
The big question. When is Pendry going to fail miserably so we can get back to what really worked for the Texans?

Once teams get about two games worth of tape on Pendry's style/approach, they'll have all they'll need to shut it down.

Something really worked for the Texans? When?

Runner
10-07-2005, 05:59 AM
Once teams get about two games worth of tape on Pendry's style/approach, they'll have all they'll need to shut it down.

Something really worked for the Texans? When?

Sad but true. It is still a pretty vanilla offense, and they just have to get some data on his tenedencies.

Double Barrel
10-07-2005, 04:30 PM
The Steelers seem to have a pretty vanilla offense, too, but they aren't worried about opposing teams figuring them out because they execute it properly.

I'm more of a believer that it's the players, not the scheme. Evidence is abundant for this perspective.

ATX
10-08-2005, 02:25 AM
Zone blocking utilizes smaller quicker players which we did not have.

We didn't get any smaller signing 6'8 315 Wade, or drafting 6'7 327 Wand. Pitts, Mckinney, and Weigert are all still here and Riley surely doesn't add quickness. It's not like we made the line any smaller since we switched to zone blocking. The zone blocking is not the reason the pass blocking sucks. The pass blocking sucks because the pass blocking sucks. The zone blocking is for the run, not the pass Ibar. I'm sure they're using the same pass blocking scheme they've been running since day 1 and can't see that it isn't working.