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Toxicology
10-03-2005, 01:39 PM
This may be the first thread I've ever started. I have come to the conclusion that the talent just is not there. The blame for this season should fall primarily with Casserly. I'm not saying Capers should be kept, but he hasn't been given all that much talent. It's not like he has a bunch of world beaters he is holding back. The current talent base should generate a record of 7-9 or 9-7. It remains to be seen whether we get there by the end of the year.
However, it is apparent to me that we do not have enough talent to get into the playoffs, much less become a factor in the post season.

First, games are won in the trenches and our D and O lines are well below average in talent. Our O-Line has all the hallmarks of a sub par line: numerous penalties, inability to pass protect with any consistency, inability to generate forward push. Our defensive front seven rarely, if ever, make a play behind the line of scrimmage. We rarely put pressure on the passer. Our blitz success ratio is horrendous (how many times did the Bengals pick up our pathetic blitz, giving Palmer all day ?)

With the exception of Dunta Robinson and Andre Johnson, we have few notable skill position players. I think Carr has talent but he has lost his confidence in the line and is not stepping up. I don't know if he will fullfill his potential. Davis is negligibly above average. Our 2nd and 3rd receivers are well below average. (I don't know why Armstrong isn't playing more). Other than D-Rob, the rest of our secondary is average.

When you combine the mediocre talent at the skill positions with weak lines, you get 0-3. We will beat some ****** teams because their talent base is swiss cheese like ours.

SESupergenius
10-03-2005, 01:50 PM
I agree. And to add that when you yank veteran leadership in Glenn and Sharper and add backups from a draft instead of starters, the blame should fall squarely in the lap of the person responsible for putting this team on the field. Capers at least kept us in the game.

Lucky
10-03-2005, 02:19 PM
...The blame for this season should fall primarily with Casserly. I'm not saying Capers should be kept, but he hasn't been given all that much talent...
Capers and his staff have had a lot of input into the personnel selection on the Texans. Just this offseason, they pushed for Greenwood and Buchanon. They were gaga over Babin a year ago. The coaching staff gave the thumbs up to Joppru, Wand, & Ragone after coaching them in the '03 Senior Bowl. Of course, they deserve props for backing the Dunta and DD picks, as well. As far as I'm concerned, Casserly & Capers are a package deal. Both warrant credit for the team's success, or lack thereof.

In my mind, the Patriots coaching staff could turn this group of players into winners. There is talent here, and I'm certain the McNair would have a strong list of candidates available to run this organization and coach some of these players.

aj.
10-03-2005, 02:23 PM
There's a shared responsibility between the GM and the coaching staff on player selection. Casserly has the overall accountability, yes, and everyone on the football ops side works for him but sometimes (like in Babin's case), a coach (or coordinator) pushes so hard for a player that the GM agrees to give up nearly half a draft to get him. In Babin's case, I hold Capers, Fangio, and Chuck Banker and Co. responsible for the talent assessment and Charley responsible for the price he agreed to pay. It's not like this GM is picking talent and stocking this roster in a vacuum.

SESupergenius
10-03-2005, 03:42 PM
I honestly don't know, and I doubt any of us really do, who is responsible for what player selected. like Joopru pick, Capers indeed was his coach at the Senior Bowl, but Casserly was there live and in person too.

Reddevil63
10-03-2005, 03:45 PM
Its hard to hold anybody responsible for the Joppru pick, that was just bad luck. If he never gets hurt he could be a solid player right now.

Bubbajwp
10-03-2005, 04:42 PM
This may be the first thread I've ever started. I have come to the conclusion that the talent just is not there. The blame for this season should fall primarily with Casserly. I'm not saying Capers should be kept, but he hasn't been given all that much talent. It's not like he has a bunch of world beaters he is holding back. The current talent base should generate a record of 7-9 or 9-7. It remains to be seen whether we get there by the end of the year.
However, it is apparent to me that we do not have enough talent to get into the playoffs, much less become a factor in the post season.

First, games are won in the trenches and our D and O lines are well below average in talent. Our O-Line has all the hallmarks of a sub par line: numerous penalties, inability to pass protect with any consistency, inability to generate forward push. Our defensive front seven rarely, if ever, make a play behind the line of scrimmage. We rarely put pressure on the passer. Our blitz success ratio is horrendous (how many times did the Bengals pick up our pathetic blitz, giving Palmer all day ?)

With the exception of Dunta Robinson and Andre Johnson, we have few notable skill position players. I think Carr has talent but he has lost his confidence in the line and is not stepping up. I don't know if he will fullfill his potential. Davis is negligibly above average. Our 2nd and 3rd receivers are well below average. (I don't know why Armstrong isn't playing more). Other than D-Rob, the rest of our secondary is average.

When you combine the mediocre talent at the skill positions with weak lines, you get 0-3. We will beat some ****** teams because their talent base is swiss cheese like ours.
So true. But as far as running the ball I dont think DD is above average. He is above average as a WR.

nunusguy
10-03-2005, 07:14 PM
Its hard to hold anybody responsible for the Joppru pick, that was just bad luck. If he never gets hurt he could be a solid player right now.
That's true. And on the other hand, I really don't think Cass & Co should be showered with praise for the D-Rob selection. In that Draft, it was no secret we were going to zero in on a corner and it was the consensus that D-Rob and Deangelo Williams, who the Falcons selected a notch or two ahead of us,
were in a class by themselves.

the wonger need food
10-03-2005, 07:29 PM
That's true. And on the other hand, I really don't think Cass & Co should be showered with praise for the D-Rob selection. In that Draft, it was no secret we were going to zero in on a corner and it was the consensus that D-Rob and Deangelo Williams, who the Falcons selected a notch or two ahead of us,
were in a class by themselves.

Very true.

BTW... DeAngelo Hall is turning out to be a better corner than DRob, but DRob was a good selection nonetheless. Just another case of this coaching staff stunting the growth of potentially very good players.

ledzeppelin229
10-03-2005, 07:44 PM
We'll never know how good Robinson can be until the defense finds a way to get to the QB. Our pass rush isn't doing him any favors at all.

Hervoyel
10-05-2005, 06:25 AM
Very true.

BTW... DeAngelo Hall is turning out to be a better corner than DRob, but DRob was a good selection nonetheless. Just another case of this coaching staff stunting the growth of potentially very good players.


Is he? I remember last season how we all were calling him ME-angelo Hall and talking about how the Texans got lucky that Atlanta picked the wrong one of the two. Now it's other way around is it?

Maybe Hall just plays on a team that can generate a pass rush. For the last three years I've said over and over again that it's a mistake to judge the skill positions on offense until the Texans put a viable offensive line on the field.

When it comes to our secondary I'd say it's a mistake to judge their play until the defensive line and linebackers can actually generate some pressure. without pressure nobody can cover todays recievers for long.

It doesn't help that we lost a declining but solid veteran opposite Dunta and replaced him with Buchanon.

Runner
10-05-2005, 06:33 AM
We'll never know how good Robinson can be until the defense finds a way to get to the QB. Our pass rush isn't doing him any favors at all.

Said in another way: We know how good he is, because look at his performance without the support of a good pass rush.

infantrycak
10-05-2005, 06:47 AM
BTW... DeAngelo Hall is turning out to be a better corner than DRob, but DRob was a good selection nonetheless. Just another case of this coaching staff stunting the growth of potentially very good players.

Comments like that make it appear you really are just around to be negative and provoke people. Dunta's rookie year was irrefutably better than Hall to the degree teams have all obviously been game planning away from him. That combined with a pass rush gives Hall "better" stats this year. And of course there isn't a position stats are more misleading for. But you knew that and just wanted to dig at the team again.

Marcus
10-05-2005, 07:08 AM
When you have sack ratio of 4/20, you don't really have to wonder why you're 0-3. I've heard many people comment that the coaching staff doesn't adjust the scheme to fit the personnel. Well, that assumes that you have talented players . . . when you don't. They couldn't get it done, no matter what scheme they tried.

Case in point. Say Capers was to make an announcement that the 3-4 is out, and they're going to a 4-3. OK . . . who would you have on the front 4? Babin, Peek? . . . c'mon! It wouldn't make difference. Same thing with the O-line.

I don't how many times I've said this, but it's still true, and to some, it is incredibly hard to accept. If you take the position that you indeed have talented players, but instead blame the coaching staff or the scheme for the failure to win, then you are taking the position that all you need to do is change the coach or the scheme, and then . . . BOOM! . . . you have a winner!

But if you accept the fact that the players are not that good, then you are accepting the fact that there is a long, long road to hoe. Now sure, the staff responsible for picking these untalented players should be held accountable, but it still going to be a long, long time before they turn this around.

Runner
10-05-2005, 07:24 AM
I don't how many times I've said this, but it's still true, and to some, it is incredibly hard to accept. If you take the position that you indeed have talented players, but instead blame the coaching staff or the scheme for the failure to win, then you are taking the position that all you need to do is change the coach or the scheme, and then . . . BOOM! . . . you have a winner!

But if you accept the fact that the players are not that good, then you are accepting the fact that there is a long, long road to hoe. Now sure, the staff responsible for picking these untalented players should be held accountable, but it still going to be a long, long time before they turn this around.

You make some good points, but there are things the coaching staff may be doing wrong. Areas such as who makes the roster (Hollings), #2 receiver (Bradford, unless Gaffney has finally supplanted him), no schemes to double team great pass rushers (LT and TE on a guy, instead of the TE chipping and going), etc.

For instance at the LT position they have chosen to go with a slow footed player with a lot of girth and strength. This is a position where a faster player could do a better job. Wand started every game last year, and with the exception of one game played every offensive down. He can't even get on the field this year, and judging by the way he lost his job before any competition was done in training camp, I have to believe that this change was more personal than performance driven.

Wand's stats last year are better than Riley's projected stats this year, and judging by the last game Riley isn't geting any better. Wand is a younger player who should improve given the proper coaching, practice time with the first team, and playing time. Why not make a change - LT play can't get much worse than last game.

infantrycak
10-05-2005, 07:35 AM
When you have sack ratio of 4/20, you don't really have to wonder why you're 0-3. I've heard many people comment that the coaching staff doesn't adjust the scheme to fit the personnel. Well, that assumes that you have talented players . . . when you don't. They couldn't get it done, no matter what scheme they tried.

Case in point. Say Capers was to make an announcement that the 3-4 is out, and they're going to a 4-3. OK . . . who would you have on the front 4? Babin, Peek? . . . c'mon! It wouldn't make difference. Same thing with the O-line.

You are looking too large on the scale of scheme changes. There are plenty of things that can be done such as playing to the strengths of the players that are not being done now. For example, every quote we hear from the coaching staff is Peek is our best pass rusher--well then scheme to have him rush the passer not drop into freakin' coverage all day long. Funny, when exactly that kind of change was made within the same base 3-4 system, Foley went from not talented enough to make our Houston Texans to a pro-bowler on a team that righted their ship from the tune of 4-12 to 12-4 with cast-offs (Foley), a washed up QB and a rookie and cast-off OL, oh yeah and a WR with too much attitude. We hear the coaching staff talk about how Armstrong and Gaffney have the best hands--well then get them off the inactive list or the bench and into the game. But no, let's put Bradford into the game because he is fast even though you have to go back 6 games for him to have collectively caught as many passes as Gaffney did in the last game. We have a coach who takes stats down fanatically but somehow allows or instructs the OC to keep putting in heavy package run formations when we run better from 3 and 4 WR sets. We have one of the biggest, toughest, fastest athletic freaks of a WR--when was the last time you saw him crossing the middle of the field? Is the talent enough, probably not--of course nobody thought San Diego's talent was enough either. One thing is for certain at this point though IMO, the coaching staff isn't getting everything out of the talent either.

touttail
10-05-2005, 12:19 PM
Is the talent enough, probably not--of course nobody thought San Diego's talent was enough either. .

I am with you , hell look what San Diego has done with their tight end. Gates is a monster, the Texans don't know what a TE is on offense, at least they don't act like it. Billy Miller wasn't a great blocker but he could catch a ball. Even scored our very first TD. Carr could dump the ball to him and he would catch it for some good yardage. I understand you need blocking, but you can't win without scoring points either!

bobby 119C :texflag:

El Tejano
10-05-2005, 12:52 PM
Does anyone believe the TE were utilized a little better in Pendry's offense? Palmer has never really been a TE kind of guy.

infantrycak
10-05-2005, 02:25 PM
Does anyone believe the TE were utilized a little better in Pendry's offense? Palmer has never really been a TE kind of guy.

We would have thought so if Rivers had caught those passes.

tsip
10-05-2005, 04:46 PM
You are looking too large on the scale of scheme changes. There are plenty of things that can be done such as playing to the strengths of the players that are not being done now. For example, every quote we hear from the coaching staff is Peek is our best pass rusher--well then scheme to have him rush the passer not drop into freakin' coverage all day long. Funny, when exactly that kind of change was made within the same base 3-4 system, Foley went from not talented enough to make our Houston Texans to a pro-bowler on a team that righted their ship from the tune of 4-12 to 12-4 with cast-offs (Foley), a washed up QB and a rookie and cast-off OL, oh yeah and a WR with too much attitude. We hear the coaching staff talk about how Armstrong and Gaffney have the best hands--well then get them off the inactive list or the bench and into the game. But no, let's put Bradford into the game because he is fast even though you have to go back 6 games for him to have collectively caught as many passes as Gaffney did in the last game. We have a coach who takes stats down fanatically but somehow allows or instructs the OC to keep putting in heavy package run formations when we run better from 3 and 4 WR sets. We have one of the biggest, toughest, fastest athletic freaks of a WR--when was the last time you saw him crossing the middle of the field? Is the talent enough, probably not--of course nobody thought San Diego's talent was enough either. One thing is for certain at this point though IMO, the coaching staff isn't getting everything out of the talent either.

...good post! I've got to wonder why Capers doesn't see these problems and try something new--no doubt he doesn't like change nor admitting he's ever wrong...heck, nobody's perfect and we all make mistakes, no shame in that.

Texas
10-05-2005, 05:26 PM
Robinson regardless of what anyone says is better then DeAngelo Hall. The only thing hall has on him is a better team. His team is not just a little better its alot better. If you through Robinson on the falcons people would be calling him Dunta (Champ) Robinson. In reference to Champ Bailey. Along with the simple point that if you throw Hall here he would mean about as much as P-Buch does.

TITAN CHANCE
10-05-2005, 05:56 PM
Join the club we have some problems ourself in Tennessee. I want to tell everyone to have a great game and at least one of us will get a win on Sunday to boost some spirits! Good luck all!!!

lucky13
10-05-2005, 08:03 PM
Its hard to hold anybody responsible for the Joppru pick, that was just bad luck. If he never gets hurt he could be a solid player right now.

it was a terrible pick even if joppru was healthy- they drafted him 2 rounds too early.

interesting you folks blame an underling, capers, for any pick that goes bad, rather than the person who ultimately made the pick, casserly.

aj.
10-06-2005, 03:44 AM
Capers and his direct reports have significant influence on who's name gets called on draft day. Casserly is not making these decisions in a vacuum.

chuckm
10-06-2005, 06:23 AM
Comments like that make it appear you really are just around to be negative and provoke people. Dunta's rookie year was irrefut :highfive: ably better than Hall to the degree teams have all obviously been game planning away from him. That combined with a pass rush gives Hall "better" stats this year. And of course there isn't a position stats are more misleading for. But you knew that and just wanted to dig at the team again.


thank you


:highfive:

the wonger need food
10-07-2005, 06:00 AM
Comments like that make it appear you really are just around to be negative and provoke people. Dunta's rookie year was irrefutably better than Hall to the degree teams have all obviously been game planning away from him. That combined with a pass rush gives Hall "better" stats this year. And of course there isn't a position stats are more misleading for. But you knew that and just wanted to dig at the team again.

I'm not the only one that has noticed... Dunta Article (http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/sports/3386071)

infantrycak
10-07-2005, 06:46 AM
I'm not the only one that has noticed... Dunta Article (http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/sports/3386071)

Nice try, but that doesn't have anything to do with Hall being better last year or this than Dunta. And I guess you are ignoring Hall getting ejected from a pre-season game for slapping an opposing player twice on the sideline--Peek has never had a play that bone-headed--and that would be on top of a face mask earlier in the game. Hall got abused by Terrell Owens in week 1, but nonetheless Hall and Dunta are both going to be very good CB's. I'll stick by my assertion that the only reason you would say what you did is to needle people on this MB.

William.carter
10-07-2005, 07:23 AM
it was a terrible pick even if joppru was healthy- they drafted him 2 rounds too early.


He had promise, was potentially the best player on the board at the time and he filled a team need. What better timing is there to pull the trigger? He could have been a total bust or a complete stud if he hadn't been injured and that would have changed everyone's perceptions. It's all an unknown as far as the value of the pick, but at the time, I think everyone including Bennie had high hopes for his place on this team and i doubt anyone was too disappointed in that pick on draft day. I know I wasn't.

William.carter
10-07-2005, 07:27 AM
I'm not the only one that has noticed... Dunta Article (http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/sports/3386071)

Watch the tapes, Dunta didn't get beat up in man coverage by TJ Housh... and if you think he did, you're just a full of it as McClain is. TJ and Palmer worked well together beating zones in the middle of the field, not burning D-Rob man on man. Get your facts straight instead of jumping on McClain's bandwagon.

Honoring Earl 34
10-07-2005, 07:32 AM
:tomato: The thing about the Bennie pick is the succes of Jason Whitten and L.J. Smith . The reason the Texans picked him is they coached him at the Senior Bowl. I don't know if the Texans thought WOW Bennies a swell guy we'll pick him or if he could have been a very good TE.

William.carter
10-07-2005, 07:37 AM
:tomato: The thing about the Bennie pick is the succes of Jason Whitten and L.J. Smith . The reason the Texans picked him is they coached him at the Senior Bowl. I don't know if the Texans thought WOW Bennies a swell guy we'll pick him or if he could have been a very good TE.

Those guys have been succesful, but you're operating with the benefit of hind-sight. The Texans had every reason to believe in their pick.

the wonger need food
10-07-2005, 07:38 AM
Watch the tapes, Dunta didn't get beat up in man coverage by TJ Housh... and if you think he did, you're just a full of it as McClain is. TJ and Palmer worked well together beating zones in the middle of the field, not burning D-Rob man on man. Get your facts straight instead of jumping on McClain's bandwagon.

You've got the game film??? Can you send me a copy?

the wonger need food
10-07-2005, 07:59 AM
If you taped the game via VCR, you would have the game "tapes" too. I don't think he said anything about game "film".

Well, that would be the only way you could actually see what the coverage calls are. Unless he has access to a different broadcast feed than we do.

William.carter
10-07-2005, 08:00 AM
You've got the game film??? Can you send me a copy?

I meant if you taped it on a VCR or Tivo or DVR or what ever method you have. But of course you don't have anything to support your argument. If I haven't taped over last weeks game by now, I'd be glad to mail you a copy so you can see for yourself how full of it McClain's claims about Dunta are.

William.carter
10-07-2005, 08:02 AM
Well, that would be the only way you could actually see what the coverage calls are. Unless he has access to a different broadcast feed than we do.

Broadcast TV shows where the passes go. That's all you need to see.

the wonger need food
10-07-2005, 08:17 AM
I meant if you taped it on a VCR or Tivo or DVR or what ever method you have. But of course you don't have anything to support your argument. If I haven't taped over last weeks game by now, I'd be glad to mail you a copy so you can see for yourself how full of it McClain's claims about Dunta are.

So, from the standard broadcast you see which coverages are being called on every play? Amazing.

Dunta was responsible for TJ on several plays, whether it was his area of the zone or man coverage.

He is on pace to have less tackles, interceptions and passes defended than he did his rookie season. I know it's only 3 games and stats are misleading, that's a given. But based on his performance so far this year do you think that he is a better player??? That's the real question here.

Huge
10-07-2005, 08:26 AM
He is on pace to have less tackles, interceptions and passes defended than he did his rookie season. I know it's only 3 games and stats are misleading, that's a given. But based on his performance so far this year do you think that he is a better player??? That's the real question here.

So is Ed Reed (reigning NFL Defensive Player of the Year).

Are there examples of Robinson getting torched on a weekly basis? I haven't seen it. I agree he's no making plays but I think that has more to do with teams staying away from his side of the field (see Buchanon getting burnt often) than anything.

If the Texans are able to shore up the opposite side of the field and teams start testing Robinson again, you'll see his production/improvement materialize. But until then, why would teams quit with what's working?

William.carter
10-07-2005, 08:26 AM
So, from the standard broadcast you see which coverages are being called on every play? Amazing.

Dunta was responsible for TJ on several plays, whether it was his area of the zone or man coverage.

He is on pace to have less tackles, interceptions and passes defended than he did his rookie season. I know it's only 3 games and stats are misleading, that's a given. But based on his performance so far this year do you think that he is a better player??? That's the real question here.


First, if you know what you're looking at on broadcast tv you can tell man coverage compared to zone.

Second, TJ is a talented WR, one of the better ones int he league. No where the the "nobodys" McBlame alluded to in his article. He's going to make plays sometime.

And to answer you last question, I don't know if he is a better player than last year, but I do know that other teams respect his ability enough to not flood his side of the field with passes. It's hard to rack up tackles, interceptions, and passes defensed when the ball isn't coming your way every other down like it was last year.

the wonger need food
10-07-2005, 08:27 AM
This is the last response you will get from me before you go on IGNORE.

1. How do you know what coverage was call to be able to say Dunta was responsible?

2. This question has been answered. They are throwing away from Dunta. This will explain a lot of why his stats are down. No way did teams pick on Glenn last year like they are on PBURNT this year. :brickwall

1. He was the closest player to the receiver once the ball was caught.

2. They threw at him several times last Sunday and he didn't make any plays.

William.carter
10-07-2005, 08:36 AM
1. He was the closest player to the receiver once the ball was caught.

2. They threw at him several times last Sunday and he didn't make any plays.

Zone coverage should take away big plays and natrually cause double teams that can lead to turnovers by defensive execution or taking advantage of a poorly through pass. If TJ didn't score and didn't bust a big run after the catch, then Dunta made a play. Someone has to be responsible for ensuring the tackle while someone else makes a play for the ball if there is one there to be made. You act like it is expected for the corner to interecept every ball that comes there way. They can try, but rarely be successfully, and if they don't play smart like Dunta does, then they will give up huge plays and scores, trying to pad their own stat column. You can't jump every route. The odds in that scenario are stacked in the QBs/WRs favor.