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View Full Version : Bengals Take on Carr...hmmm.


J-Man
09-29-2005, 01:25 PM
This is a pretty intresting article about how the Bengals, specifically Carson Palmer and the coaching staff look at David Carr. Of note the DB coach for Cinci was a def coach for Fresno and saw Carr every day and gives his assesment of the talent.

Meat of the article deals with comparing the situations both former #1 picks were put in with their respective teams and how they have compared. I happen the think that the best thing for us (and I thought this during the expansion year) was that we bring in a veteran QB and let DC sit for a year. Casserly has said before that was the original plan but they couldn't find any takers because they knew their days were numbered with Carr waiting in the wings.

Link (http://www.bengals.com/news/news.asp?story_id=4684)

Mr Shush
09-29-2005, 01:33 PM
Actually, what evidence there is suggests that it doesn't really make much odds one way or the other to his chances of long-term success whether a highly drafted quarterback sits for a year or starts straight away. I'd link to the study Football Outsiders did on the subject, but their site's down at the minute because it can't cope with all the traffic caused by people following the new link from FOXSports.

What might have made a difference to his development is Boselli being healthy, and that really is where it all went wrong for this team.

covcath1
09-29-2005, 02:37 PM
Actually, what evidence there is suggests that it doesn't really make much odds one way or the other to his chances of long-term success whether a highly drafted quarterback sits for a year or starts straight away. I'd link to the study Football Outsiders did on the subject, but their site's down at the minute because it can't cope with all the traffic caused by people following the new link from FOXSports.

What might have made a difference to his development is Boselli being healthy, and that really is where it all went wrong for this team.


As the article indicates it depends on the situation. If you bring in a top QB and he completely gets killed and loses his confidence, that could definately derail his career. It happened to David Klingler. I don't know how he would have turned out if he could have learned from QB who was willing to teach him while he watched for a year, but I do know that he spent so much time on his back that he didn't trust his teammates or the coaching staff. Sooner or later that will get to your head.

SO your probably right ..if your offensive line would have been solid to begin with this discussion might be a mute point.

covcath1
09-29-2005, 02:52 PM
“Always. Especially when you watch the playoffs with Pittsburgh and watching Ben (Roethlisberger) and he’s sitting back there and it looks like he’s having a blast,” Carr said. “If I could have done that my first year, yeah, it definitely would have been fun. But I wouldn’t change as far what I’ve gone through. It’s been tough at times. We haven’t won as many games as we wanted to. But I’ve had fun playing football. That’s what it comes down to.”

Interesting that Carr says it comes down to "having fun"...not as a learning experience or developing as a player

Reddevil63
09-29-2005, 02:54 PM
Interesting that Carr says it comes down to "having fun"...not as a learning experience or developing as a player
Um ya, thats kinda why they play the game.

Runner
09-29-2005, 02:58 PM
Um ya, thats kinda why they play the game.

I think an honest poll would show that most players play for the money, not for "the love of the game" or for "fun". Most wouldn't do what they do for a normal salary. Practice and games aren't as "fun" as they were 20 or 30 years ago.

covcath1
09-29-2005, 03:02 PM
I think an honest poll would show that most players play for the money, not for "the love of the game" or for "fun". Most wouldn't do what they do for a normal salary. Practice and games aren't as "fun" as they were 20 or 30 years ago.

Good point..especially with all the injuries. Willie Anderson, O-Line for Bengals says he feels like a 100 y/o man walking around. Those players take a lot of punishment.

Dunta_23
09-29-2005, 08:08 PM
http://cbs.sportsline.com/nfl/story/8907823

Storm
09-29-2005, 08:21 PM
Its a shame that he has to deal with a new O Coord so early in his career

Is the playbook and system the same? you just hope that he doesn't get shellshocked before they build a line for him. As Bengal fans we are way too familiar with drafting QBs and throwing them to the wolves and praying that they are the savior without any supporting cast, hopefully your front office will realize how important a supporting cast is for him before its too late

BengalStripes
09-29-2005, 08:26 PM
A good article. It sounds like Carr has his head screwed on straight. If the Texans' brass is stupid enough to cut him loose someone will pick him up and he'll be successful.

I know he's looked bad this season even when he got protection, but after getting clobbered so many times you know he has a voice in his head telling him "I'm about to get creamed."

Get him an O-Line and Carr will be fine.

Thanks for the link Dunta

metalmike
09-29-2005, 08:47 PM
:texflag: :texans:
Get David some protection before we totally write him off. As of now, I'd say he has potential of being a decent QB. I'm sick of saying potential with this team. Get some real coaches so we can see what's wrong. I don't see Carr having that something special that Montana, Elway, Farve, Marino, or hell Moon had, but he can be ok. I'll take another losing season, IF that means making the changes to make us much better in the near future. Go Texans! Hope they stomp a mudhole in Cincy! Go ASTROS !! Go LONGHORNS !!!

HJam72
09-30-2005, 12:04 AM
You know what the problem with Carr is? He doesn't practice right. We could straighten out Babin and Carr by having having Babin knock the **** out of Carr about 8 times every practice. Then they'd understand their roles. :)

touttail
09-30-2005, 07:13 AM
Take a look at Carr’s rookie year compared to Palmer’s first 16 starts:

Palmer attempts: 529; Carr 444
Palmer completions: 332; Carr 233
Palmer percentage: 62.7; Carr 52.5
Palmer yards 3,863; Carr 2,592
Palmer avg. yds/pass: 7.0; Carr 5.8
Palmer TDs 26; Carr 20
Palmer INTs: 20; Carr 15
Palmer sacks 28; Carr 76.
Palmer passer rating 84.0; Carr 62.8
Rushes
Palmer-18 for 47 yards(2004)
Carr-59 for 282 yards(2001)

Run David Run!!!!!!!!!
Kind of tough to have your stats up there when you are lying on your back or running for your life!

bobby 119C :brickwall

swisher
09-30-2005, 07:30 AM
I got all the way to part where it says "Houston, We Have A Problem."

I have a policy against reading anything witht that phrase attached to it.

CinciFan
09-30-2005, 08:40 AM
Take a look at Carr’s rookie year compared to Palmer’s first 16 starts:

Palmer attempts: 529; Carr 444
Palmer completions: 332; Carr 233
Palmer percentage: 62.7; Carr 52.5
Palmer yards 3,863; Carr 2,592
Palmer avg. yds/pass: 7.0; Carr 5.8
Palmer TDs 26; Carr 20
Palmer INTs: 20; Carr 15
Palmer sacks 28; Carr 76.
Palmer passer rating 84.0; Carr 62.8
Rushes
Palmer-18 for 47 yards(2004)
Carr-59 for 282 yards(2001)

Run David Run!!!!!!!!!
Kind of tough to have your stats up there when you are lying on your back or running for your life!

bobby 119C :brickwall

76 sacks! Good grief! Well, no sense questioning his toughness, huh?

You guys have to get an O-line, or it won't matter if you have the best QB to ever play the game back there - eventually THE hit will come, and he'll be done. Plus, you just can't be successful that way.

Is any of that Carr's fault? does he tend to lock on to receivers or hold the ball too long? Or is it a porous line and lack of blitz pickup by the RB?

Kaiser Toro
09-30-2005, 08:45 AM
I have not been a fan of Carr's contract. I was and have been a fan of Carr's arm stregnth (not his touch on the deep ball) and his runing skills once he has passed the line of the scrimmage.

The type of things the article speak to say things all can agree with. What they do not talk about are the intangibles that you hope that come with the first pick in the draft - periphereal vision, footwork and enduring leadership on the field when going through adverse times. These intangibles are very evident in Brady, Leftwich and Roethlisberger.

Go back and watch the tape on the 13 sacks and you will see that the O line had little do with them.

Exascor
09-30-2005, 08:47 AM
Is any of that Carr's fault? does he tend to lock on to receivers or hold the ball too long? Or is it a porous line and lack of blitz pickup by the RB?Yes: Carr locks on his first target
Yes: Carr holds the ball too long
Yes: The line allows way too much penetration
Yes: The RBs and TEs have failed at picking up the blitzes

bengalhook
09-30-2005, 08:52 AM
A good article. It sounds like Carr has his head screwed on straight. If the Texans' brass is stupid enough to cut him loose someone will pick him up and he'll be successful.

I know he's looked bad this season even when he got protection, but after getting clobbered so many times you know he has a voice in his head telling him "I'm about to get creamed."

Get him an O-Line and Carr will be fine.

Thanks for the link Dunta

Take it from Bengals fans who have seen too many of their young QBs thrown to the wolves.

GP
09-30-2005, 08:54 AM
This is just as much Carr's fault as anything else.

His remarks about having fun, etc., and his total lack of honesty are just brutal. Brutal.

This guy will not be honest and say what he wants. And until he gets the courage to say what he thinks and not worry about (GASP!) offending anybody...he'll never be a leader.

He's got to start leading this team in every way, and that includes dropping the politically correct interview remarks in favor of a more realistic approach.

Some of you might think he is "classy" for not unloading and being honest about the state of this team, but I for one would just like to see him stop caring about being the humanitarian of the year and get in some people's faces when they drop balls, miss blocks, etc.

You see Peyton last Sunday when Dallas Clark dropped a SURE first down, caysing them to punt? Peyton was cussing at the guy and yelling at him, slaping his hands together and looking right at him the whole time. If Carr would just get personal with these guys, they'd play better.

CinciFan
09-30-2005, 08:57 AM
This is just as much Carr's fault as anything else.

His remarks about having fun, etc., and his total lack of honesty are just brutal. Brutal.

This guy will not be honest and say what he wants. And until he gets the courage to say what he thinks and not worry about (GASP!) offending anybody...he'll never be a leader.

He's got to start leading this team in every way, and that includes dropping the politically correct interview remarks in favor of a more realistic approach.

Some of you might think he is "classy" for not unloading and being honest about the state of this team, but I for one would just like to see him stop caring about being the humanitarian of the year and get in some people's faces when they drop balls, miss blocks, etc.

You see Peyton last Sunday when Dallas Clark dropped a SURE first down, caysing them to punt? Peyton was cussing at the guy and yelling at him, slaping his hands together and looking right at him the whole time. If Carr would just get personal with these guys, they'd play better.

Part of that comes from "moral authority". If Carr feels like he is personally making too many mistakes, how can he legitimately call out others? It takes the best players on the team stepping up and calling out lackadaisical performance by the others. I'm not saying Carr is not playing well; honestly I don't know except from comments I've read on this board. I'm just saying it's easier to call others out if your performance is solid, at least in your own mind. If Carr is down on himself a bit, he won't "go after" anyone else.

buckeye45331
09-30-2005, 09:36 AM
Carson Palmer has had the luxury of a pretty good O-line....which in years past has been the downfall of many Bengal QB's. If David Carr is given enough time, he will put up some big numbers. This game actually has me a little concerned. One of the weak spots for Cincinnati has been a poor pass rush. They couldn't even sack Dilfer for craps sakes! I look for the Texans to score 20+ points this week. The Bengals better not be looking too far ahead (in Jacksonville next week). http://www.bengals.com/news/news.asp?story_id=4687

Kaiser Toro
09-30-2005, 10:06 AM
Carson Palmer has had the luxury of a pretty good O-line....which in years past has been the downfall of many Bengal QB's. If David Carr is given enough time, he will put up some big numbers. This game actually has me a little concerned. One of the weak spots for Cincinnati has been a poor pass rush. They couldn't even sack Dilfer for craps sakes! I look for the Texans to score 20+ points this week. The Bengals better not be looking too far ahead (in Jacksonville next week). http://www.bengals.com/news/news.asp?story_id=4687


We appreciate yor pessimism! :)

Good luck.

Lucky
09-30-2005, 10:16 AM
This guy will not be honest and say what he wants. And until he gets the courage to say what he thinks and not worry about (GASP!) offending anybody...he'll never be a leader.

He's got to start leading this team in every way, and that includes dropping the politically correct interview remarks in favor of a more realistic approach.
Name one QB who rips his teammates in the press for their performance on the field. Just one. Ridiculous.

Vinny
09-30-2005, 10:20 AM
Name one QB who rips his teammates in the press for their performance on the field. Just one. Ridiculous.I agree...I don't like several issues in Carr's game right now but he is a stand-up guy and a good teamate. I couldn't ask more from the guy as he handles the press and staying above pointing fingers and saying the right things. Hopefully Pendry can help him with the pocket and gives him some audibles that function.