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Honoring Earl 34
09-25-2005, 07:48 PM
:texflag: Could Carr have been as good as Eli should be ?

Honch Delgado
09-25-2005, 07:57 PM
Funny how just a few months ago threads were being started about Carr being better than Mike Vick. Now it's come down to this. I'll say this, Baby Manning has better awareness and field vision than Carr. Until Carr can figure out how to read a D, he'll be a subpar backup.

JaguarsFan1
09-25-2005, 08:32 PM
Carr!

Double Barrel
09-25-2005, 09:03 PM
I'd pick Carr. I'm not that impressed with Manning at this point.

Honch Delgado
09-25-2005, 09:16 PM
Manning's impressed me so far tonight during the SD game. Steps into the pocket, avoids pressure, remains poised at San Diego.

Kaiser Toro
09-25-2005, 09:22 PM
I would too if I wasn't running for my life. Good call. Eli rocks!

The key to the statement was that he shows poise under pressure, at least for this game.

beerlover
09-25-2005, 09:26 PM
I'm so tired of this BS. Carr was the Texans best option at the time period. anything else is pure hindsight :deadhorse

LBC_Justin
09-25-2005, 09:50 PM
I haven't watched Eli play very much but I have been watching the game tonight. He looked ok at times but he made a few HUGE mistakes and got lucky as hell that neither one came back to bite him.

1. Threw a pass to Plaxico and it should have been intercepted for a touchdown but the CB dropped it.
2. Threw a pass that was intercepted for a touchdown but it got called back on a tick tack penalty.

I would take Carr at this points. Eli would get eaten alive if he played on the Texans.

CajunTexan
09-25-2005, 09:59 PM
Eli looks more comfortable this year than last, but look at the players around him! Pro-bowler Tiki Barber with a great ground game. Plexico Burras, stout offensive line. He has everything he needs to be successful.

I'd take Carr.

Kaiser Toro
09-25-2005, 10:08 PM
Eli looks more comfortable this year than last, but look at the players around him! Pro-bowler Tiki Barber with a great ground game. Plexico Burras, stout offensive line. He has everything he needs to be successful.

I'd take Carr.

I agree that Eli looks more comofrtable, but we have an all pro WR and a RB who has had back to back 1,000 yard seasons. As for the Giant's line it is very young. I remeber all of the bad press they were getting last year and they did not sign any pro bowl lineman. It appears that Eli was able to take his game to another level.

Honoring Earl 34
09-25-2005, 10:12 PM
:brickwall Since the 1998 draft QBs taken 1st overall are

98 Manning (goes to playoffs )
99 Couch ( expansion , out of league )
01 Vick ( goes to playoffs )
02 Carr ( expansion , wishes he had 1 wish )
03 Palmer ( should go to playoffs )
04 Manning ( should be good QB next year )
05 Smith ( has good seats )

Poor David gets the job of flying a kite with no wind blowing . Couch tried but his kite crashed . Its just hard on a QB to go to an expansion team .

CajunTexan
09-25-2005, 10:16 PM
I love Dre and DD more than my luggage, but at this point in both of their careers, are not at the same level. Maybe you can argue Dre is, but I do not believe there is a defensive coordinator in the leaque that game plans for DD. He does not strike fear in any defense. He is awesome in spurts, but due to his size wears down and can be stopped.

LBC_Justin
09-25-2005, 10:27 PM
Eli looks more comfortable this year than last, but look at the players around him! Pro-bowler Tiki Barber with a great ground game. Plexico Burras, stout offensive line. He has everything he needs to be successful.

I'd take Carr.Your also forgetting about a little known tight end named Jeremy Shockey. Eli has TONS of weapons.

CajunTexan
09-25-2005, 10:39 PM
Your also forgetting about a little known tight end named Jeremy Shockey. Eli has TONS of weapons.

Word!!!!!
Out

mexican_texan
09-25-2005, 11:39 PM
Rookie Sacks:

My boy Eli: 13
Car: NFL Record 75

Elite
09-26-2005, 12:42 AM
ill take Eli i like the poise he shows and the maturity he shows in the pocket its only his second year and already looks years ahead of our poor beat up David Carr.

J-Storm
09-26-2005, 07:34 AM
I'm so tired of this BS. Carr was the Texans best option at the time period. anything else is pure hindsight :deadhorse

Not meaning to pick this post out on purpose as there are so many more like it but using it as a reference: People expected Carson Palmer to step up and so far he seems to have, people think Eli Manning should be doing more (based on name more than anything at a guess) and he has started to show it, Teaxns fans expect David Carr to do something/anything/everything he can and so far it's looking like he's gone further back from where he started. Whether it's fact or opinion, it's not far from being the truth despite the diffrence in O-Lines. Good quality QB's show that they can improve not make themselves or their team for that matter, worse!!!

texanfan2002114
09-26-2005, 07:49 AM
I haven't watched Eli play very much but I have been watching the game tonight. He looked ok at times but he made a few HUGE mistakes and got lucky as hell that neither one came back to bite him.

1. Threw a pass to Plaxico and it should have been intercepted for a touchdown but the CB dropped it.
2. Threw a pass that was intercepted for a touchdown but it got called back on a tick tack penalty.

I would take Carr at this points. Eli would get eaten alive if he played on the Texans.

I agree with LBC. Eli also stares down his recievers and has longer than 3 secs. to get rid of the ball.


I'd take Carr any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

texanfan2002114
09-26-2005, 07:51 AM
Rookie Sacks:

My boy Eli: 13
Car: NFL Record 75

All that means is that Eli didn't start as a rookie and Carr started on an expansion team. Also Eli had a better O-Line and again Carr started on an expansion team.

Huge
09-26-2005, 08:34 AM
I haven't watched Eli play very much but I have been watching the game tonight. He looked ok at times but he made a few HUGE mistakes and got lucky as hell that neither one came back to bite him.

1. Threw a pass to Plaxico and it should have been intercepted for a touchdown but the CB dropped it.
2. Threw a pass that was intercepted for a touchdown but it got called back on a tick tack penalty.

I would take Carr at this points. Eli would get eaten alive if he played on the Texans.
Eli - 2nd year
Carr - 4th year

Honoring Earl 34
09-26-2005, 10:03 AM
:texflag: Its hard to answer any questions about Carr's awareness as a QB. On that note I would say he seems to lack in that category or he'd simply throw the ball away instead of taking a sack.

Hervoyel
09-26-2005, 10:16 AM
All that means is that Eli didn't start as a rookie and Carr started on an expansion team. Also Eli had a better O-Line and again Carr started on an expansion team.

That's not true. All it means is that Eli got sacked 13 times as a rookie while Carr got sacked 75 times (or something silly like that, I don't remember how many sacks Banks took that year). Yes Eli didn't start his entire rookie season but that doesn't change the fact that Eli got sacked 13 times that year while David got the stuffing beat out of him. Then defenders beat the stuffing for a little while to see if anything came out of it.

The numbers don't say that one's better than the other but they do show you what each of them learned about the NFL in thier rookie year.

Eli learned that starting is harder than it looks when he stepped in for Warner. David learned that the NFL hurts. I believe it has had a negative impact on his development and that it will hinder him for the rest of his career.

Anyone who starts a rookie from day one on an expansion team is out of his mind. Palmer did it in Cleveland and look what happened. Dom and Palmer did it here and the same thing happened. I think Dom didn't have a clue about what would happen because of the good experience he had with Collins in Carolina. He didn't start him right off the bat but when he did play him things worked out ok. Those expansion teams had a lot more instant talent around their rookies than Cleveland and Houston did later on.

metalmike
09-26-2005, 10:36 AM
Carr has done nothing good this year, although if Eli was a Texan he would not do much better. it's hard to do good with no o-line. Texans will do nothing until they get some o-line help. Also doesn't help that they have the most predictible playbook in football. including college.

LBC_Justin
09-26-2005, 11:04 AM
Rookie Sacks:

My boy Eli: 13
Car: NFL Record 75
Last year Eli's record as a starter: 1 win, 6 losses.
Last year the NYG record when Eli played in the game: 1 win, 8 losses.
Last year the NYG record in games Eli doesn't take a snap: 5 wins, 3 losses.
Let thoses stats simmer for a while and smell the aroma of failure. (Also before Eli was put in the Giants were not doing that bad.)

Eli Manning's offensive tools:
Plaxico Burress & Amani Toomer at WR
Jeremy Shockey at TE
Tiki Barbar at RB
Better O-line than Texans

I would say Eli Manning is in a slightly better situation.

Eli may be a decent player in this league but as of right now he has proved nothing.

Honoring Earl 34
09-26-2005, 12:52 PM
:texflag: How would anybody rank the the first player taken in the drafts

01 Vick
02 Carr
03 Palmer
04 Manning
05 Smith

or rank them 1-5.

Kaiser Toro
09-26-2005, 12:55 PM
Last year Eli's record as a starter: 1 win, 6 losses.
Last year the NYG record when Eli played in the game: 1 win, 8 losses.
Last year the NYG record in games Eli doesn't take a snap: 5 wins, 3 losses.
Let thoses stats simmer for a while and smell the aroma of failure. (Also before Eli was put in the Giants were not doing that bad.)

Eli Manning's offensive tools:
Plaxico Burress & Amani Toomer at WR
Jeremy Shockey at TE
Tiki Barbar at RB
Better O-line than Texans

I would say Eli Manning is in a slightly better situation.

Eli may be a decent player in this league but as of right now he has proved nothing.

Burress is a talent but a head case. No one had huge expectations for him comng into the season. Toomer's numbers have fallen every year since 2002 in rec, yds and TD's (0 last year). In fact Toomer has 6 receptions this year in 3 games. Not sure how you are measuring the offensive lines. Shockey and Barber are better players than what we currently field.

But to say Manning has proved nothing and not to make a statement about what DC has done is a pocket veto at best.

metalmike
09-26-2005, 01:06 PM
:texflag: How would anybody rank the the first player taken in the drafts

01 Vick
02 Carr
03 Palmer
04 Manning
05 Smith

or rank them 1-5.
At this point 1. Vick 2. Palmer 3. Carr 4. Manning 5. Smith. Although I believe Eli will get a lot better. His brother didn't do to good his first couple of years either. Eli is not near as good as Peyton though. Just saying he might be number 2 on that list later. :texans:

mexican_texan
09-26-2005, 01:31 PM
Last year Eli's record as a starter: 1 win, 6 losses.
Last year the NYG record when Eli played in the game: 1 win, 8 losses.
Last year the NYG record in games Eli doesn't take a snap: 5 wins, 3 losses.
Let thoses stats simmer for a while and smell the aroma of failure. (Also before Eli was put in the Giants were not doing that bad.)

Eli Manning's offensive tools:
Plaxico Burress & Amani Toomer at WR
Jeremy Shockey at TE
Tiki Barbar at RB
Better O-line than Texans

I would say Eli Manning is in a slightly better situation.

Eli may be a decent player in this league but as of right now he has proved nothing.

Eli playing in the NFC is also a "slightly" better situation

Battle Red Flash
09-26-2005, 01:50 PM
Carr will be better than Eli when the next GM actually brings in good O-linemen, and lets Bradford go.

swtbound07
09-26-2005, 02:26 PM
its irrelevant....eli would have weaseled his way out of being drafted by us anyway...does character count for nothing?

Double Barrel
09-26-2005, 03:19 PM
its irrelevant....eli would have weaseled his way out of being drafted by us anyway...does character count for nothing?

Good point! Based on character, Carr does circles around Manning.

I'm sorry (not really :heh: ), but Manning's little "excuse" about punking the NFL draft system was weasel. Can you imagine the chaos that would ensure if even half of the college players acted in that manner? Then last night's game had a whole new set of excuses about it, and they were weaker than ever. I'm glad the Giants lost because of it, too.

Honoring Earl 34
09-26-2005, 03:24 PM
:tomato: It would be hard to deal with Eli's people but if we drafted him and traded him for alot of picks and went 12-4 I'd still do it .

JustBonee
09-26-2005, 08:21 PM
Eli...
Looks like Eli switched bodies with Payton in the offseason. Isn't Eli ahead of his brother in several QB categories this year? He's looking good.
Carr .. no comment.

ledzeppelin229
09-26-2005, 08:29 PM
I think they said last night he's a little bit behind in completion %, but has a slight edge in yards and is leading him in td/int ratio 5/2 to 2/2. I was impressed by Eli's composure and awareness last night. His protection was better but he also showed much better footwork and a better feel for pressure than I've ever seen from Carr. He just tip toes around the pocket and then delivers the ball. David has gotten into the habit of taking off to the right and negating half the field.

Bongo59
09-26-2005, 08:32 PM
.............. :tv:

David Carr is better then Eli Manning. He is better then most of these guys with good time and good coaching.
Doesn't Eli have a running game? What is that guys name........ O, Tikki Barber!..........are you kidding me???? ELI just finished his 6th game as a pro.....................Carr in four yrs has never looked that good...................Carr is very disappointing.............i think he has to answer the bell........................he has gotten a huge pass because of the OL and the expansion team tag.............Four yrs in the honeymoon has finally ended.....................and it is justified. And ELI does not have stud WR like Johnson either.............Carr has AJ and DD.............not chop liver................he is just regressed badly ..............

Bubbajwp
09-26-2005, 09:25 PM
..........are you kidding me???? ELI just finished his 6th game as a pro.....................Carr in four yrs has never looked that good...................Carr is very disappointing.............i think he has to answer the bell........................he has gotten a huge pass because of the OL and the expansion team tag.............Four yrs in the honeymoon has finally ended.....................and it is justified. And ELI does not have stud WR like Johnson either.............Carr has AJ and DD.............not chop liver................he is just regressed badly ..............
At least are QB doesnt :crying: about the team he is playing for.

Jophis
09-26-2005, 11:35 PM
I think Carr is extremely talented. You all just need an O line. I'm not sold on Eli yet and the way he punked out the Chargers made me lose all respect for him.

Jophis
09-26-2005, 11:36 PM
..........are you kidding me???? ELI just finished his 6th game as a pro.....................Carr in four yrs has never looked that good...................Carr is very disappointing.............i think he has to answer the bell........................he has gotten a huge pass because of the OL and the expansion team tag.............Four yrs in the honeymoon has finally ended.....................and it is justified. And ELI does not have stud WR like Johnson either.............Carr has AJ and DD.............not chop liver................he is just regressed badly ..............


Peyton Manning couldn't suceed with Houston's O line.

touttail
09-27-2005, 08:54 AM
My God, did all of you see how much time EManning had to look at his recievers and get the ball(at least try) to them. It was pathetic, 6 sometimes 7 seconds. I thought, man if Carr had that much time to see AJ or time to look at a secondary reciever, his stats would be up there!

bobby 119C :ok:

LBC_Justin
09-27-2005, 09:51 AM
..........are you kidding me???? ELI just finished his 6th game as a pro.....................Carr in four yrs has never looked that good...................Carr is very disappointing.............i think he has to answer the bell........................he has gotten a huge pass because of the OL and the expansion team tag.............Four yrs in the honeymoon has finally ended.....................and it is justified. And ELI does not have stud WR like Johnson either.............Carr has AJ and DD.............not chop liver................he is just regressed badly ..............
In the regular season Eli Manning has started 10 games and that was his 12th game over all. Not sure where you are pulling stats from.
http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/493004

Eli didn't play that great on sunday. TWICE he almost threw interceptions for TOUCHDOWNS. One time the corner missed an easy pick that was meant for Plaxico but was thrown right the the corner. The other time the corner did pick it off and run it back for the Touchdown but it was called back because of a tick tack foul. His play was not great. He is still making HUGE mistakes.

Carr certainly has issues but Carr unlike Eli has been put in the situation to fail from the beginning.....worst O-line in history, expansion team, etc.

Fldvldog
09-27-2005, 10:56 AM
If I were to pick right now, Eli by half a mile...