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keyfro
07-16-2004, 01:00 PM
lucky for us we're not in this situation but for da raiders and the dolphins they have a pretty big choice

if you were norv turner who would you start...gannon or collins

if you were dave wandstedt(can never spell his name right) fiedler or feeley

while we're here

gibb's ramsey or brunell

parcell's testaverde or carter

Panther5407
07-16-2004, 02:07 PM
lucky for us we're not in this situation but for da raiders and the dolphins they have a pretty big choice

if you were norv turner who would you start...gannon or collins

if you were dave wandstedt(can never spell his name right) fiedler or feeley

while we're here

gibb's ramsey or brunell

parcell's testaverde or carter

Gannon, Feeley, Brunell and Testaverde

WWJD
07-16-2004, 02:37 PM
Collins
Fiedler
Ramsey
Testaverde

disaacks3
07-16-2004, 03:20 PM
Gannon - Harder to rattle
Fiedler - Lesser of two evils
Ramsey - He's the long-term solution, might as well get to it.
Testaverde - Carter will never get it done, go with the vet!

Fiddy
07-16-2004, 03:25 PM
Collins - just paid big money for him, you have to play him
Fiedler - isnt as bad as everybody in Miami thinks
Brunell - read Collins
Carter - he helped the Boys make the playoffs last year, you stick with him until you start falling out of the race...

Mistril48
07-16-2004, 03:35 PM
Collins - has won when he has the weapons
Fiedler - Very high winning percentage when healthy and surrounded with reasonable talent
Brunell - read Collins
Testaverde - Carter not ideal to develop the team for Henson

HowBoutThemCowboys!
07-16-2004, 03:56 PM
Collins
Fielder
Brunnel
Carter-QC, finally given his chance, produced 5th highest passing total in team history with 3,302 yards. He threw for 17 TD's, added 257 yds and 2 TD's on the ground.

scourge
07-16-2004, 05:05 PM
Collins
Feeley
Brunell
Carter

keyfro
07-16-2004, 05:50 PM
my picks:

gannon: he took you to a superbowl stick with him til he says he's done
fiedler: feeley is an unproven QB
brunell: this guy was the man in jax...ramsey can take sometime to learn
testaverde: sorry carter fans i don't think he can get the job done


ramsey is a solid QB but he'll need a year to get spurrier out of his head...until then brunell needs to take the reins...he provides the best chance of winning now

testaverde is the right person to bring up henson as parcell's prodigey child

was never sold on collins anyways

Fiddy
07-16-2004, 08:12 PM
Carter-QC, finally given his chance, produced 5th highest passing total in team history with 3,302 yards. He threw for 17 TD's, added 257 yds and 2 TD's on the ground.Nice record, but producing one of the highest passing totals for the Cowboys isnt that great when you notice that the team has depended on Tony Dorsett and Emmitt Smith for most of its history, so its not as if he has the 5th highest total for the Dolphins....

flawedout
07-17-2004, 08:52 PM
i am glad i dont have to make those picks, so i wont.

HowBoutThemCowboys!
07-18-2004, 10:21 AM
Fiddy, Dallas has always had great Q.B's except for recently. Don Meridith, Roger Staubach, Danny Whte, Troy Aikman. How could Stabach and Aikman get in the hall of fame if they just relied on the rbs? You must not know anything about Stabach, White, Aikmen, or Meridith. I ask you please research them to see how great they were

Fiddy
07-18-2004, 12:29 PM
Fiddy, Dallas has always had great Q.B's except for recently. Don Meridith, Roger Staubach, Danny Whte, Troy Aikman. How could Stabach and Aikman get in the hall of fame if they just relied on the rbs? You must not know anything about Stabach, White, Aikmen, or Meridith. I ask you please research them to see how great they wereI know that the Cowboys have had great QBs none were 'prolific' passers. For example: Troy Aikman had 7 season (out of 12) with less then 3000 passing, he averaged 199.65 yards passing per/game through out his career. For comparision purposes. Peyton Manning is a 'prolific passer' because in his 6 years only 1 of his season does he have less then 4000 yards passing. In 1/2 of the time of Aikman, Manning has already accumalted 75% of Aikman career passing, Manning has also averaged 260 yards per game.

Troy Aikman's stats (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/stats?statsId=615)

Roger Stabach (minus seasons where he played in 4, 6, and 8 games), averaged 191 yards per game during his career, and intresting enough, his 2 best years came when Tony Dorsett came to town

These guys are Hall of Famers and great QBs. I am not trying to take anything away from them, but they werent 'prolific' passer, great passer, but never had the stats that other QBs had. Favre averages 240 yards per game, he is a prolific passer, Aikman only averaged 199, is that prolific? To me it isnt...

HowBoutThemCowboys!
07-18-2004, 06:29 PM
Before I make my response to you, I got a question. Which definiton of prolific are you talking about.

1 a prolific artist, writer etc produces many works of art, books etc

2 an animal or plant that is prolific produces many babies or many other plants

3 literary existing in large numbers: the prolific bird life
ó prolifically adverb

For example, whats this mean? "I know that the Cowboys have had great QBs not none your 'prolific' passer"

Fiddy
07-18-2004, 06:59 PM
For example, whats this mean? "I know that the Cowboys have had great QBs not none your 'prolific' passer"My bad, I didnt even notice that. I meant: I know that the Cowboys have had great QBs but none were 'prolific' passers.

My defenition of prolific, in this context, is someone that can put up a lot of yards and doesnt make too many mistakes. For example, just an example, a prolific passer wouldnt have 4000 yards and 30 INTs, he would be closer to 4000 yards and 30 TDs....

pv1999
07-18-2004, 09:57 PM
What does it matter.....The Cowboys stink.
If they were in a real division they would know this.
The phenomenon of "playoff amnesia" seems to occur frequnetly in the metroplex. At the end of the year you make the playoffs and forget who bad your team really is.
The 'Boys were a worse team than the Texans last year (Or the Texans were a better team than the Cowboys, however you want to see it).
Getting your can kicked around the league and dominating division games is a far cry from the back-to-back days. The offensive woes begin at QB but offensively WR is the only position that is solid, that is if Coach Tuna can get KeyShawn to stop crying and play.
Defense carried the team last year. Defense was a major part of ALL of the championships. Dallas has never had a Marino, Elway, Moon, Favre, Manning (all prolific passers). They have good managers that manage not to lose games with stupid mistakes (Meridith, Staubach, Aikman, White).
I can't recall anyone ever inserting the QB's name before the Cowboys like "...they will face Brett Farve (pp) and his Packers..." or "...Steve McNair (not a pp) and the Titans..." None of the Cowboy QB's have ever been a threat to take over a game by themselves.

HowBoutThemCowboys!
07-19-2004, 01:15 PM
I know that the Cowboys have had great QBs none were 'prolific' passers. For example: Troy Aikman had 7 season (out of 12) with less then 3000 passing, he averaged 199.65 yards passing per/game through out his career. For comparision purposes. Peyton Manning is a 'prolific passer' because in his 6 years only 1 of his season does he have less then 4000 yards passing. In 1/2 of the time of Aikman, Manning has already accumalted 75% of Aikman career passing, Manning has also averaged 260 yards per game.

Troy Aikman's stats (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/stats?statsId=615)

Roger Stabach (minus seasons where he played in 4, 6, and 8 games), averaged 191 yards per game during his career, and intresting enough, his 2 best years came when Tony Dorsett came to town

These guys are Hall of Famers and great QBs. I am not trying to take anything away from them, but they werent 'prolific' passer, great passer, but never had the stats that other QBs had. Favre averages 240 yards per game, he is a prolific passer, Aikman only averaged 199, is that prolific? To me it isnt...

Troy was as prolific as he needed to be to help us dominate the league for 4 consecutive years in the 90's. You can't do more than you are asked to and you can't always control the situation, i.e. owner, coaches, supporting players, around you. Just ask Marino, Elway or Manning.

It all comes down to the offensive system you are in. anyone who doesn't think Troy would have put up unbelievable numbers in an offense like the Rams or Vikings have is just high. Troy had all the tools, but he was also a great TEAM player who played his possition EXACTLY as he was called upon.

SESupergenius
07-19-2004, 03:08 PM
Throwing more INT's than TD's is not prolific. Most Good QB's have half as many INT's as TD's to be considered 'prolific' i would also throw in Throwing percentage too as I consider a player having over 60% completion percentage vital in being a called a great QB. Quincy has a QB rating of 71, thats 2 points "better" than David Carr, Carr was not prolific, either was Quincy. Thus the additions of Henson and Tertiverticle.

pv1999
07-19-2004, 03:45 PM
Troy was as prolific as he needed to be to help us dominate the league for 4 consecutive years in the 90's. You can't do more than you are asked to and you can't always control the situation, i.e. owner, coaches, supporting players, around you. Just ask Marino, Elway or Manning.

Mr. Damn Marino went to the SuperBowl his first year and his surrounding cast were recievers who needed someone to get them the ball. Never had what you would call a solid run game. Name more than 9 players who ever caught a TD from him and you are good. Prolific Passer.

Number 7 was always a threat on the field even though he only went to the SuperBowl after the arrival of a decent running game. Name 5 solid members of the supporting cast and you are ready for the bonus round. Prolific Passer.

The 2000 version of the Manning passing unit struggled with mediocracy among his teammates until the arrival of James and Harrison. But still managed Prolific numbers. Can you name any of the recievers from his rookie campaign? I know I can't.

Troy Aikman led his team through the worst season in franchise history before Smith came along. Not Elway, Not Marino, Not Peyton....Aikman.

Prolific passers send scrub recievers to the Hall-of-Fame. Who has Aikman sent? Who was Jerry Rice until he met a prolific passer, what has he done since? Sterling Sharpe? Shannon Sharpe? Mark Duper?

Cowboy QBs are excellent managers and superb field generals but prolific?

HowBoutThemCowboys!
07-19-2004, 04:16 PM
Throwing more INT's than TD's is not prolific. Most Good QB's have half as many INT's as TD's to be considered 'prolific' i would also throw in Throwing percentage too as I consider a player having over 60% completion percentage vital in being a called a great QB. Quincy has a QB rating of 71, thats 2 points "better" than David Carr, Carr was not prolific, either was Quincy. Thus the additions of Henson and Tertiverticle.
We're not talking about Carter


Mr. Damn Marino went to the SuperBowl his first year and his surrounding cast were recievers who needed someone to get them the ball. Never had what you would call a solid run game. Name more than 9 players who ever caught a TD from him and you are good. Prolific Passer.

Number 7 was always a threat on the field even though he only went to the SuperBowl after the arrival of a decent running game. Name 5 solid members of the supporting cast and you are ready for the bonus round. Prolific Passer.

The 2000 version of the Manning passing unit struggled with mediocracy among his teammates until the arrival of James and Harrison. But still managed Prolific numbers. Can you name any of the recievers from his rookie campaign? I know I can't.

Troy Aikman led his team through the worst season in franchise history before Smith came along. Not Elway, Not Marino, Not Peyton....Aikman.

Prolific passers send scrub recievers to the Hall-of-Fame. Who has Aikman sent? Who was Jerry Rice until he met a prolific passer, what has he done since? Sterling Sharpe? Shannon Sharpe? Mark Duper?

Cowboy QBs are excellent managers and superb field generals but prolific?
Well I see your points and now I agree with them. But the point I want to get across now is if Aikman staubach, or White were placed on a team without an excellent running backs, they would be prolific.

Fiddy
07-19-2004, 04:35 PM
Lets get back to Carter, last year you said he threw for 3,302 yards. Lets see how that stacks up with other franchises

If QC was on the Dolphins:
Dan Marino alone has 12 seasons with better passing marks, so he would already be #13 on the Dolphins single season passing yards list

If QC was on the Broncos:
Elway has 9 seasons better then Carter's total last year, so all ready he would be 10th on their career list

If QC was on the 49ers:
Montana had 6 better seasons than QC
Young had 4 seasons better than QC
Garcia has had 3 seasons better than QC
So QC would be #14 on the 49ers single season passing chart

If QC was on the Packers:
Favre has had 11 seasons better
L.Dickey had 2 seasons better
R.Wright had 1 season better
D.Majkowski had 1 season better
So QC would be #16 on the Packers all time list

SESupergenius
07-19-2004, 04:37 PM
Carter-QC, finally given his chance, produced 5th highest passing total in team history with 3,302 yards. He threw for 17 TD's, added 257 yds and 2 TD's on the ground.

I guess you were talking about Nell Carter or Jimmy Carter.

pv1999
07-19-2004, 04:58 PM
Well I see your points and now I agree with them. But the point I want to get across now is if Aikman staubach, or White were placed on a team without an excellent running backs, they would be prolific.

For the answer, look at what they did without a running game.
Aikman-Nothing Franchise WORST season
Staubach-The 1963 Heisman Trophy winner showed up in Dallas as a 27-year-old rookie, but in those 11 seasons still managed carve out the franchise's all-time leading quarterback rating of 83.42 and became a five-time NFL passing champion. But Staubach almost became better known for his scrambling ability, and to this day ranks eighth on the Cowboys' all-time rushing list with 2,264 yards.

Staubach owns the second most passing yards in club history, 22,700, and his 3,586 in 1979 still ranks as the second most passing yards in a single season for the Cowboys. He also still leads the club with a career average of 7.67 yards per attempt and his three, 300-yard passing performances in 1979 has him tied for the single-season lead with Don Meredith and Danny White.

Staubach also become known as "Captain Comeback" for his 23 fourth-quarter come-from-behind victories in regular season and playoff games, including 14 in the final two minutes or overtime. Never was this more apparent than in a 1975 playoff game against the Minnesota Vikings when Staubach connected with wide receiver Drew Pearson on a desperation 50-yard "Hail Mary" touchdown pass that knocked the Vikings out of the playoffs.

"You could never defeat Roger mentally or physically," late Cowboys head coach Tom Landry said in 1983. "He was like that in a game, in practice, or in the business world."

Staubach ended his Cowboys career with four Super Bowl appearances, including wins in Super Bowls VI and XII. In Super Bowl VI, Staubach was named the game's Most Valuable Player.

White- 15 straight winning seasons (using the supporting cast from Staubach in a Steve Youngesque way).

So Yes, Roger Staubach was a prolific passer for his time. Danny White followed the blueprint and Aikman was at the helm when the ship sank.

Oh..Yes, and Carter is getting ready to lose his spot to a baseball player.

HowBoutThemCowboys!
07-19-2004, 09:22 PM
Lets get back to Carter, last year you said he threw for 3,302 yards. Lets see how that stacks up with other franchises

If QC was on the Dolphins:
Dan Marino alone has 12 seasons with better passing marks, so he would already be #13 on the Dolphins single season passing yards list

If QC was on the Broncos:
Elway has 9 seasons better then Carter's total last year, so all ready he would be 10th on their career list

If QC was on the 49ers:
Montana had 6 better seasons than QC
Young had 4 seasons better than QC
Garcia has had 3 seasons better than QC
So QC would be #14 on the 49ers single season passing chart

If QC was on the Packers:
Favre has had 11 seasons better
L.Dickey had 2 seasons better
R.Wright had 1 season better
D.Majkowski had 1 season better
So QC would be #16 on the Packers all time list

Couldnt agree with you more. Even though all the teams you put against QC had the game's best q.bs ever. Your absolutely right.
Another thing I agree with you, 3,302 isnt really that great to many people, but to me it's not bad that. Reason 1 is he improved from a terrible 1,465 yrs the year before to 3,302. This means Carter's taking steps ahead in improving to be a better quarter back. Reason 2 is Carter had more yards last season than Delhomme, Garcia, Mcnabb, Ramsey, Collins, Blake, Harrington, Steward, Mcnair, Plumme, Pennigton, Holocomb, Gannon, Leftwich, Bledsoe, Fielder, Carr, Brees, and Boeller.

I guess you were talking about Nell Carter or Jimmy Carter.
So if you saw Delhomme, Garcia, Mcnabb, Ramsey, Collins, Blake, Harrington, Steward, Mcnair, Plumme, Pennigton, Holocomb, Gannon, Leftwich, Bledsoe, Fielder, Carr , Brees, and Boeller's stats you would get them mixed up with Jimmy Carter? Well I guess you can see it that way....

For the answer, look at what they did without a running game.
Aikman-Nothing Franchise WORST season
Staubach-The 1963 Heisman Trophy winner showed up in Dallas as a 27-year-old rookie, but in those 11 seasons still managed carve out the franchise's all-time leading quarterback rating of 83.42 and became a five-time NFL passing champion. But Staubach almost became better known for his scrambling ability, and to this day ranks eighth on the Cowboys' all-time rushing list with 2,264 yards.

Staubach owns the second most passing yards in club history, 22,700, and his 3,586 in 1979 still ranks as the second most passing yards in a single season for the Cowboys. He also still leads the club with a career average of 7.67 yards per attempt and his three, 300-yard passing performances in 1979 has him tied for the single-season lead with Don Meredith and Danny White.

Staubach also become known as "Captain Comeback" for his 23 fourth-quarter come-from-behind victories in regular season and playoff games, including 14 in the final two minutes or overtime. Never was this more apparent than in a 1975 playoff game against the Minnesota Vikings when Staubach connected with wide receiver Drew Pearson on a desperation 50-yard "Hail Mary" touchdown pass that knocked the Vikings out of the playoffs.

"You could never defeat Roger mentally or physically," late Cowboys head coach Tom Landry said in 1983. "He was like that in a game, in practice, or in the business world."

Staubach ended his Cowboys career with four Super Bowl appearances, including wins in Super Bowls VI and XII. In Super Bowl VI, Staubach was named the game's Most Valuable Player.

White- 15 straight winning seasons (using the supporting cast from Staubach in a Steve Youngesque way).

So Yes, Roger Staubach was a prolific passer for his time. Danny White followed the blueprint and Aikman was at the helm when the ship sank.

Oh..Yes, and Carter is getting ready to lose his spot to a baseball player.

Wait, White had an awesome RB. Infact a hall of famer. Ever heard of Tony Dorsett?

Fiddy
07-19-2004, 09:36 PM
Even though all the teams you put against QC had the game's best q.bs ever.I was comparing him to franchise's that have had, my defenition, of a 'prolific' passer.

Another thing I agree with you, 3,302 isnt really that great to many people, but to me it's not bad that. Reason 1 is he improved from a terrible 1,465 yrs the year before to 3,302.I dont think it is that bad either, especially, like what you pointed out, when he threw for 1465 yards the year before.

QC was a good QB last year, I cant take that away from him, and I believe he gives the Cowboys the best chance to win this coming season...

WWJD
07-19-2004, 11:44 PM
Troy was such a non-prolific QB that he'll probably be a first ballot Hall of Fame player.

I don't get the logic that he wasn't prolific. Who cares about stats if you're not winning? They are about as worthless as the paper they are printed on if the team isn't doing well.

Marino was great but I bet he'd trade all those records for one Lombardi trophy.

SESupergenius
07-19-2004, 11:45 PM
So if you saw Delhomme, Garcia, Mcnabb, Ramsey, Collins, Blake, Harrington, Steward, Mcnair, Plumme, Plocomb, Gaennigton, Honnon, Leftwich, Bledsoe, Fielder, Carr , Brees, and Boeller's stats you would get them mixed up with Jimmy Carter? Well I guess you can see it that way.... Sure since non of them have won a SuperBowl. Although Jimmy won the Presidency....and stayed at a Holiday Inn once. Quincy did play a Medical Examiner on TV back in the early 80's, but I think that's all he's done.

pv1999
07-20-2004, 08:56 AM
Wait, White had an awesome RB. Infact a hall of famer. Ever heard of Tony Dorsett?

Tony D arrived in time to open the SuperBowl floodgates for Staubach and stayed to win a few for White. How many did they win before him? But I see where you are going and what you should find out is if anyone has ever won a superbowl without a running game. Don't bring out the League of Ordinary Gentlemen to compare to your boy QC to make him look good. He's still going to lose his job to a baseball player, and not even a good baseball player.

HowBoutThemCowboys!
07-20-2004, 10:15 AM
Tony D arrived in time to open the SuperBowl floodgates for Staubach and stayed to win a few for White.
Dorsett arrived in 1977, actually all he won was 1 super bowl for Denver and lost 1 to the Steelers, all while Stauach was qb, When White was at the helm. They didnt even go to one.

Quincy will not lose the starting job to Henson, as Fiddy said Carter did a good job last season. How about we make a little bet. When the regular season starts if Hensons a spot ahead of Carter on the roster, on this mb, I'll start a thread that says in all caps TEXANS ARE THE BEST,COWBOYS ARE A BUNCH OF LOSERS! Then I'll make 10 responses repeadetly saying Texans own Dallas. If Quincy is ahead of Henson then you do the same exact thing but saying Cowboys are the best,Texans are losers and repeadetly responde saying Dallas owns Texans.
If your so confident he's going to beat out Carter then accept this bet

ledzeppelin229
07-20-2004, 11:51 AM
How about this. If Henson replaces Carter at any point IN THE SEASON as the QB ahead of him, then we have a bet. Of course if the reason is injury then its called off. I dont think anyone expects Henson to start over Carter opening day if this season at all. In 05 though Carter might be looking at a permanent backup position.

WWJD
07-20-2004, 12:15 PM
I don't believe Henson will start the season. He's simply not ready. At some point he'll be their starting QB but probably not this year.

pv1999
07-20-2004, 03:35 PM
TEXANS ARE THE BEST,COWBOYS ARE A BUNCH OF LOSERS!

Why should I bet, you already said it?
But whoever starts will be better with Eddie running the ball.
They still won't be prolific.

HowBoutThemCowboys!
07-20-2004, 06:15 PM
How about this. If Henson replaces Carter at any point IN THE SEASON as the QB ahead of him, then we have a bet. Of course if the reason is injury then its called off. I dont think anyone expects Henson to start over Carter opening day if this season at all. In 05 though Carter might be looking at a permanent backup position.
Sweet, deal. I like your style. BTW, Led Zep rocks. I've have all the albums. My fav is Led Zep II

HowBoutThemCowboys!
07-20-2004, 06:21 PM
Why should I bet, you already said it?
But whoever starts will be better with Eddie running the ball.
They still won't be prolific.
Why should I bet with a guy who thinks White and Staubach didnt have a running game. lol, I had to tell you Tony Dorsett was on White and Staubach's team. Then you start saying White and Dorsett won superbowls together. I can see while your ranked a student of the game on this mb. lol
I'm betting with a real fan who has the guts to do it

pv1999
07-20-2004, 09:18 PM
Have you figured out by now that my Cowboy knowledge is limited? I never have cared enough about the Boys to pay attention because I don't like the Cowboys. Didn't I say that?

Dallas has always been a team much like the Astros in that sometimes it seems that the front office plays "buddyball" and keeps players based on relationships with owners and not talent. Never have liked em. So you will have to excuse my limited knowledge of football games played while I was in elementary school. lol

Oh and by the way I found two people who won a Superbowl without an "A" rushing game one was Brett Farve, a prolific passer, and the other was Tom Brady.

HowBoutThemCowboys!
07-20-2004, 11:01 PM
Have you figured out by now that my Cowboy knowledge is limited? I never have cared enough about the Boys to pay attention because I don't like the Cowboys. Didn't I say that?

Dallas has always been a team much like the Astros in that sometimes it seems that the front office plays "buddyball" and keeps players based on relationships with owners and not talent. Never have liked em. So you will have to excuse my limited knowledge of football games played while I was in elementary school. lol

Oh and by the way I found two people who won a Superbowl without an "A" rushing game one was Brett Farve, a prolific passer, and the other was Tom Brady.
Who cares about winning a superbowl without a good runner with a prolific Q.B, I could care less whether you do have a running game or not. When did I show so much intrest in finding out?
Dallas keeps players based on relationships? :hmmm: lol. What player did we keep due to a relationship? Your desperate man
If you've never cared about Dallas, then why do you still guess we won superbowls with White. If you dont like the Boys then why do you bother to even guess?
I dont get it? You dont like how owners keep players because of relationships,(Even though thatís not the case with Dallas.) well it was sort of the opposite when the Houston Oilers moved to Tennesse. The owner didnt keep the city not because of a relationship but because he wanted more money. Even though I wasnt a fan of Houston I didnt like it one bit. An owner should stay loyal. Thatís the one think you cant deny. Dallas has never moved from Dallas and never will

HoustonTexans4Life
07-20-2004, 11:27 PM
I agree w/ you fiddy! Lets just face it Quincy Carters not consistent enough to be the cowboys quarter back ,,,well atleast not if the wanna win a superbowl,,,, which i'm sure is why teams play every year! I dunno i kinda liked yall arguing

Scooter
07-21-2004, 12:26 AM
since this thread has already been hijacked ... Moon was better than all of em.

:headbang:

HowBoutThemCowboys!
07-21-2004, 12:51 AM
I agree w/ you fiddy! Lets just face it Quincy Carters not consistent enough to be the cowboys quarter back ,,,well atleast not if the wanna win a superbowl,,,, which i'm sure is why teams play every year! I dunno i kinda liked yall arguing
Fiddy, didnt say that, he said "QC was a good QB last year, I cant take that away from him, and I believe he gives the Cowboys the best chance to win this coming season..." which is absolutely correct and I think it awesome that one Houston fan thinks Q.C is the man

since this thread has already been hijacked ... Moon was better than all of em.

:headbang:
Moon was really awesome. Not only was he an overall great q.b but he was a pioneer for african american q.bs in the NFL

pv1999
07-21-2004, 08:16 AM
Why was Dorsett a Bronco?
Why is Emmitt a Cardinal?
It may be just me but it seems that the White Quarterbacks always get to retire as a Cowboy and the Black stars get traded after they are no longer useful to the organization. It has happened more than once, would you say it was coincidence or team policy?
A 3000 yard season, 5th all-time, some would say that if QC was a white quarterback he would be on his way to the ring of honor. But he is in the process of being replaced with a baseball player and I don't think its based on talent or race I think its relationships.

HowBoutThemCowboys!
07-21-2004, 11:09 AM
Why was Dorsett a Bronco?
Why is Emmitt a Cardinal?
It may be just me but it seems that the White Quarterbacks always get to retire as a Cowboy and the Black stars get traded after they are no longer useful to the organization. It has happened more than once, would you say it was coincidence or team policy?
A 3000 yard season, 5th all-time, some would say that if QC was a white quarterback he would be on his way to the ring of honor. But he is in the process of being replaced with a baseball player and I don't think its based on talent or race I think its relationships.
Why would QC be replaced cause of your race?. First of all Henson will be a third stringer this year. Second of all do you think the Cowboys owners are racist??? Thats ridiculous. Your being the one thats racist. Your pulling a Rush Limbauh. The cowboys let go of Smith because he lost his talent that he once had in the 90 's. Now do you think we did it cause he was african american and we didnt have a relationship? We traded Dorsett because we brought in Herschel Walker (An african american) who is one of the greatest of all time
I could name 2 african american greats that got traded and were once on the same franchise, infact the Houston Oilers!
Warren Moon traded to Minnessota
Earl Cambell traded to the New Orleans Saints
Now do I think that happend because it was team policy? Absolutely not

WWJD
07-21-2004, 12:19 PM
I also don't believe race has anything to do with Quincy or anybody else starting or being replaced.

He wouldn't be playing at all based on that theory. They wouldn't have ever even given him the chance to be starting.

pv1999
07-21-2004, 04:21 PM
Like I said.
I don't think it is based on RACE or TALENT, I think it's based on RELATIONSHIPS.
Earl was bigger than Bud, he didn't like that, he traded him.
Again ITS NOT RACIAL.
By league standards QC was 5 form the bottom, by Cowboy standards he was 5 from the top either way, the organization felt it was necessary to bring in a baseball player to play QB. There were higher rated NFL QB's available but they got an MLB'er to shore up their QB spot. A sure sign of "Buddy Ball" is when you pass for 3000 yds and get replaced or scheduled for replacement. What is that decision based on? Could it be QC's relationship with Jones and the Tuna?
I say it's RELATIONSHIPS. It seems to me that the Dallas mgmt for what ever reason does not like/want QC as their QB.

HowBoutThemCowboys!
07-21-2004, 05:36 PM
That would be pretty absurd. They drafted him, of course they want him to pan out; but it is pretty clear that he has many limitations as an NFL QB so they took a young prospect that was rated higher than our own David Carr when he was in College. To simply say they are trying to replace Carter with a baseball player is a bit simplistic.
Totally agree. Also another thing I want to point out to pv1999 is Quincy Carter and Chad Hutchinston also both played baesball. Quincy Carter played in the Chicago Cubs' organization in 1996, '97 and '98. Hutchinston got singed before the 2002 season after he gave up a career with the St. Louis Cardinals.

pv1999
07-21-2004, 07:27 PM
Thanks for the baseball trivia, but most NFL skill players played multiple sports well in high school and got drafted. I call him a baseball guy because he chose the MLB over the Texans.

Pan Out?

He threw for more yards than Jeff Garcia in that West Coast chuck-and-duck offense they run and even more than Donovan McNabb last year. His overall rating was less than 10 pts behind McNabb, he took the 'Boys to the playoffs with a lackluster running game. I would say that any other franchise would look at that as the QB of the future. I would say he was panning out well. No other starting QB that took their team to the 2004 playoffs is getting replaced? Why Carter? What can he do to keep his job?

powda
07-21-2004, 08:36 PM
I would say he was panning out well. No other starting QB that took their team to the 2004 playoffs is getting replaced? Why Carter?

are you looking for a racial injustice? if thats the case try looking some where else like nfl ownership.

carter's performance has not been impressive. he's been good from time to time ,but more often then not he isnt. how many other playoff qb's led their teams to shutouts in week 8 and week 11? thats not to mention the numerous games he led the offense to a 1 td performance.

you'll want to suggest his performance was limited by an inadequate running game im sure---but i'll submit their running game would have been somewhat more succesful had the opposing defenses HAD to respect the passing game.

carter didnt lead that team to the playoffs...their defense did.

HowBoutThemCowboys!
07-21-2004, 10:58 PM
Pan Out?

He threw for more yards than Jeff Garcia in that West Coast chuck-and-duck offense they run and even more than Donovan McNabb last year. His overall rating was less than 10 pts behind McNabb, he took the 'Boys to the playoffs with a lackluster running game. I would say that any other franchise would look at that as the QB of the future. I would say he was panning out well. No other starting QB that took their team to the 2004 playoffs is getting replaced? Why Carter? What can he do to keep his job?

Our Doomsday Defese Got Us to the playoffs (http://www.dallascowboys.com/spagnola.cfm?id=A0E36F31-BBCC-5463-614B35A1B8CC3B9A)

I believe Carter will improve improve greatly from the 3,302 yrds he had last season because A.)An improved offensive line. B.) He has a much better running game to go to C.) The addition of Keyshawn Johnson

pv1999
07-22-2004, 08:00 AM
You guys have forced me to learn more about the Cowboys than I want to know.

1. I will say that Carter did more with less last year than other QB's. He deserves more respect than people give him, me included.
2. The Cowboys may or may not be racist, but they sure don't base some decisions purely on stats. But that might just be the face of sports today, Hakeem was a Raptor, Earl was a Saint, Moon was a Viking, Rice is a Raider, Emmitt is a Cardinal. For the record I do not belive that it is racist.
3. Most guys hang up their gloves in college when draft projections come out, the rest wait until they are drafted then there's Deion, Bo and the guy that left Football to play Baseball (he's a baseball guy now) but to be selected by an NFL team and stay in baseball makes you a baseball guy, period end of story.

dcarr08sprtsmedchik
07-22-2004, 08:58 AM
Collins
Feely
Brunell
And since I am also a Cowboys fan, Carter-Testevarde will just be Parcells buddy, I think. Plus Testeverde has seen his best times, needs to retire.

keyfro
07-22-2004, 02:54 PM
ok i'm gonna add some more names into this so we can get away from whole carter vs testeverde thing...

rivers, brees, or flutie

and

warner or eli

TheOgre
07-22-2004, 03:17 PM
Why was Dorsett a Bronco?
Why is Emmitt a Cardinal?
It may be just me but it seems that the White Quarterbacks always get to retire as a Cowboy and the Black stars get traded after they are no longer useful to the organization. It has happened more than once, would you say it was coincidence or team policy?
A 3000 yard season, 5th all-time, some would say that if QC was a white quarterback he would be on his way to the ring of honor. But he is in the process of being replaced with a baseball player and I don't think its based on talent or race I think its relationships.

The Cowboys no longer wanted Aikman. He almost went to the Dolphins or Chargers but he just couldn't physically play any more. Roger Stauback was still taking them to the playoffs every year until he retired. Why would they get rid of someone that is still very productive?

Emmitt and Dorsett have proven to be shells of their former selves after they left the Cowboys. Michael Irvin (a black man I might add) and Troy Aikman were smart enough to retire as Cowboys.

Quincy Carter has had one mediocre season after a couple of lackluster performances. I actually think the guy has been given MORE of a chance then he deserves. IMO Jerry Jones has bent over backwards to try to make QC the man in Dallas. It just doesn't look like it will happen.

Where I do think the black/white bias is still strong is in the front offices and management positions in the NFL and MLB. The NBA has been farely pro-active in that department and actually has the first African American owner (Bob Johnson of the Charlotte Bobcats).

For the record, I am a white male and do not care for the Cowboys. I just do not see prejudice on the part of Jerry Jones. I can say other disparaging things about him but not that.

WWJD
07-22-2004, 04:20 PM
Flutie
Warner

HowBoutThemCowboys!
07-22-2004, 04:26 PM
Flutie
Eli

pv1999
07-22-2004, 04:49 PM
The Cowboys no longer wanted Aikman. He almost went to the Dolphins or Chargers but he just couldn't physically play any more. Roger Stauback was still taking them to the playoffs every year until he retired. Why would they get rid of someone that is still very productive?

Emmitt and Dorsett have proven to be shells of their former selves after they left the Cowboys. Michael Irvin (a black man I might add) and Troy Aikman were smart enough to retire as Cowboys.

Quincy Carter has had one mediocre season after a couple of lackluster performances. I actually think the guy has been given MORE of a chance then he deserves. IMO Jerry Jones has bent over backwards to try to make QC the man in Dallas. It just doesn't look like it will happen.

Where I do think the black/white bias is still strong is in the front offices and management positions in the NFL and MLB. The NBA has been farely pro-active in that department and actually has the first African American owner (Bob Johnson of the Charlotte Bobcats).

For the record, I am a white male and do not care for the Cowboys. I just do not see prejudice on the part of Jerry Jones. I can say other disparaging things about him but not that.

Michael Irvin almost died a Cowboy. I think that QC had a good year in a solid offensive scheme under a new coach. Some of the issues with his mechanics and reads would have been worked on sooner had he been with a real coach. I really dislike the Cowboys and its painful for me to say nice things about them, but today QC gives them the best chance to win. The opponents QB's may throw for more Cowboy Touchdowns because of that defensive backfield but Carter is a better QB than what is out there.

Warner should start so his wife will leave us alone, then slide in Eli after they miss the playoffs.
Drew Brees should start until he is injured, then Rivers
Flutie should be the player/coach of the year and be on the staff next year.
After all just how much run should a guy get for a lucky pass. We aren't kissing the reciever's ***, didn't he have equal part in the play?