PDA

View Full Version : Buchanon and Babin Benched!


JDTexan
09-20-2005, 03:09 PM
Radio Sports 610 reporting that Jason Babin and Phillip Buchanon have been benched for Shante Orr and Demarcus Faggins who will start the game against the Bengals. :yahoo:

Again, many more changes needed, but yesterday and today are good starts.

Next, we can work on benching Casserly :challenge

rmartin65
09-20-2005, 03:10 PM
why orr? does'nt anderson play there?

wags
09-20-2005, 03:13 PM
http://www.houstontexans.com/news/news_detail.php?PRKey=1983

Three new faces were working with the Texans' first-team defense Tuesday. Shantee Orr lined up at left outside linebacker in place of Jason Babin, while Demarcus Faggins lined up at left cornerback in place of Phillip Buchanon. Rookie Travis Johnson lined up at left defensive end in lace of Gary Walker, who is nursing an injured shoulder.

JDTexan
09-20-2005, 03:15 PM
Maybe it is Anderson who will start, but I thought I heard Orr.

I may be wrong. idonno:

All I know, is Babin will be riding the pine to open the game against the Bengals.

Runner
09-20-2005, 03:15 PM
why orr? does'nt anderson play there?

Orr replaced Babin during the last game. Anderson is also an OLB, maybe he plays Peek's side.

Exascor
09-20-2005, 03:18 PM
It's Orr (http://www.houstontexans.com/news/news_detail.php?PRKey=1983) Three new faces were working with the Texans' first-team defense Tuesday. Shantee Orr lined up at left outside linebacker in place of Jason Babin, while Demarcus Faggins lined up at left cornerback in place of Phillip Buchanon. Rookie Travis Johnson lined up at left defensive end in lace of Gary Walker, who is nursing an injured shoulder.

El Tejano
09-20-2005, 03:26 PM
Nice. I was just thinking earlier that the decision to fire a coach was nice but it wouldn't upset the mindset of the team. I think this will do. I also would like to see Ioane in a few times more. He seems to make a play or two.

GP
09-20-2005, 03:35 PM
I like the moves....but why is this happening right now?

Why didn't this happen during training camp, or after game 1?

Orr has been solid every time when he's in the game. I think it was the Atlanta game last year when he made a few awesome plays although he was limited in playing time.

And Buchanon should have also been benched after game 1.

Again, it's just more confusing than ever. At what point did Capers just decide to pull the switch? To me, if he makes these two player moves, he knows he should have made them weeks ago or even in training camp.

Is CAPERS really pulling these moves or is it someone above him TELLING him to do this and he gets to be the face? If Capers is doing this, and this is his doings, including the Palmer firing, then he sure waited a heck of a long time to make what he is now trying to say is a logical series of decisions he needed to make.

I still say something's fishy in H-Town, and it ain't the oysters.

If Capers really made all these moves on his own, then on one hand he gets a high-five from me. But the other hand I stick behind my back because he should have made some drastic moves during the preseason. The bad play of Babin and Buchanon didn't just start last week. Any sane person knows that.

BUt, I guess if you're going to fire the OC, you might as well use the momentum and do some more shaking up to show the team that it's not just coaches who are on the bubble.

Go figure.

While he's at it, Capers can admit he should have kept Swinton for kick returns AND punt returns. At least go back and get JJ Moses (if he'd even agree to play for us!). Morency is a joke at KR.

Runner
09-20-2005, 03:38 PM
Wonder what they'll do to the offense...

El Tejano
09-20-2005, 03:41 PM
You know, going back and getting Moses would not be a decision I would laugh at. I would really be happy to see they are doing something to address the issue. It doesn't totally make up for the departure of Swinton but it apologizes.

I know they could get rid of a guy like Lewis Sanders to sign Moses.

I also wonder if this is more due to trying to get ready for the Bengals.

WWJD
09-20-2005, 03:48 PM
Faggins isn't much of an upgrade to me.

Toxicology
09-20-2005, 03:53 PM
make buchanon somewhat useful. make him return all kickoffs and punts. who cares if he gets hurt. maybe he will do some showtime instead of blowtime.

PapaL
09-20-2005, 04:01 PM
Can we get a really long bench? One that streches very far out of the stadium. Thats where PBuc should be sitting. Way out there.

throwANDREtheBALL
09-20-2005, 04:01 PM
Did our Front Office do anything right in the past 2 off-seasons ?

honestly, I can only see screw-ups.

HomeBred_Texan
09-20-2005, 04:01 PM
Faggins isn't much of an upgrade to me.
at least he can tackle like a man

PapaL
09-20-2005, 04:04 PM
Faggins isn't much of an upgrade to me.

As long as he can get into a tackling stance, its an upgrade. Doesn't have to actually tackle anyone. Small steps...2 hand touch, tackling stance, actual tackle.

stevo3883
09-20-2005, 04:04 PM
Can we get a really long bench? One that streches very far out of the stadium. Thats where PBuc should be sitting. Way out there.



how about an airplane... going to oakland... departing immediately... with him in the cargo hold

rafterticket
09-20-2005, 04:06 PM
Faggins isn't much of an upgrade to me.

Did you see Buchanon on that last touchdown run on Sunday? Nobody on the corner would have been the equivalent.

SESupergenius
09-20-2005, 04:12 PM
This is a direct reflection of Casserly. It slaps him right in the face that these two have been demoted.

WWJD
09-20-2005, 04:12 PM
Yes I saw him. I seem to remember hearing Faggins name mentioned though on a lot of completions going to the opponents.

Wasn't Faggins the corner covering Randle El (I think it was him) on that one long pass that Ben had 2 minutes to throw the other day? He moved around to his right and threw the ball across the field; the receiver jumped up and caught the ball and the corner looked clueless. Wasn't that Faggins?

exclude
09-20-2005, 04:12 PM
Faggins isn't much of an upgrade to me.

But at least we won't be seeing Buchanon do his style of dancing, er, tackling (this is too strong a word to describe what he was trying to do against Parker, maybe touching is the better term or attempted kissing).

stevo3883
09-20-2005, 04:13 PM
This is a direct reflection of Casserly. It slaps him right in the face that these two have been demoted.


now if only we could demote him...

Exascor
09-20-2005, 04:16 PM
This is a direct reflection of Casserly. It slaps him right in the face that these two have been demoted.Fangio supposedly made the push for Babin (I'll try to find a source in a few) and I'd bet that Hoke had more than a little input into the Buchanon trade. Even still, I agree it reflects very poorly on CC. That's 2 2nd rounders, 2 3rd rounder and a 4th that just got benched.

exclude
09-20-2005, 04:16 PM
Yes I saw him. I seem to remember hearing Faggins name mentioned though on a lot of completions going to the opponents.

Wasn't Faggins the corner covering Randle El (I think it was him) on that one long pass that Ben had 2 minutes to throw the other day? He moved around to his right and threw the ball across the field; the receiver jumped up and caught the ball and the corner looked clueless. Wasn't that Faggins?

Of course you will cause opposing coaches aren't dumb: why would they throw it to Dunta's side???

And yes Faggins was the DB in question on that particular play, but at least Faggins will hit and go after people. Pbuc would rather kiss the WR than guard his man.

PapaL
09-20-2005, 04:21 PM
Who else would venture to say that Faggins has had a better carrer than PBuc? (Minus the silk pj's of course.) He may not have as many TD's or INT's, but he probably hasnt give up as many either.

WWJD
09-20-2005, 04:35 PM
Well then they wasted high draft choices on this guy and they are promoting a guy that can tackle but is vulnerable on long passes to being beat.

All you're going to get is people throwing at Faggins all game long and he'll get beat. He'll tackle them sure but after they make 30 yards. I dunno. To me he's average at best.

mexican_texan
09-20-2005, 04:38 PM
I agree with the faggins move since even Adam Sandler found his weaknesses in the season opener. However, I liked Babin and feel the Texans are giving up too soon. I like his speed, power, and tatoos.

exclude
09-20-2005, 04:45 PM
Well then they wasted high draft choices on this guy and they are promoting a guy that can tackle but is vulnerable on long passes to being beat.

All you're going to get is people throwing at Faggins all game long and he'll get beat. He'll tackle them sure but after they make 30 yards. I dunno. To me he's average at best.


Yes, hes average but PBuc is so way below average. Did you want him instead???

And so what if he gets beat on a busted play in which the QB scrambled and somehow manage to find an open receiver?? That speaks more to Rothlisberger's ability than to how ****** Faggins is. Roy Williams got smoked twice yesterday on deep passes so he must suck huh??? :ok:

The Preacher
09-20-2005, 05:00 PM
Five high draft picks for those two guys. :hairpull: My first post ever here admonished most of cc's picks except babin and naturally i got hammered for it. Forgive my pride but I still can't believe he gambled like that for a team with little depth. Now the Titans are rolling with some of those picks. One of which Troupe would be nice to have not to mention the others but we don't want to go there again. Since then the pb debacle has unfolded and apparently the Texans are going backwards while other teams are naturally progressing. Those two picks for pb would have been nice but i guess that is a little too late. Maybe things can turn around. I have been optimistic, but after this benching it is obvious the gambles have been disastrous and the FO must be feeling seriously inadequate about right now.

1-3
09-20-2005, 05:11 PM
The Raiders could end up with some pretty nice draft picks after their boy comes over here and stinks up the joint. Can't draw it up much better than that for Oakland. With such a nice O-line draft coming it would suck to have those picks back.

Blake
09-20-2005, 05:14 PM
Five high draft picks for those two guys. :hairpull:

6 total picks in all for those 2 players. 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, for Babin, and 2nd, 3rd, for Phillip.

And now they are on the pine.

Where is the restart button?

stevo3883
09-20-2005, 05:16 PM
6 total picks in all for those 2 players. 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, for Babin, and 2nd, 3rd, for Phillip.

And now they are on the pine.

Where is the restart button?

its right under the fire capers button

TheOgre
09-20-2005, 05:18 PM
6 total picks in all for those 2 players. 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, for Babin, and 2nd, 3rd, for Phillip.

And now they are on the pine.

Where is the restart button?

We got a 5th back (from the Titans) in the Babin trade though.

nunusguy
09-20-2005, 05:19 PM
I'm surprised the Texans actually took this action, but my hats off to them
for makng a such a drammatic move in an attempt to turn things around with the organization.

ATX
09-20-2005, 05:22 PM
Why wasn't Bradford benched as well? Anyway, i'm glad to see Capers do something like this to send a message. You either play hard and do your job or somebody will come in and do it for you. I like that.

WWJD
09-20-2005, 05:26 PM
Yes, hes average but PBuc is so way below average. Did you want him instead???

And so what if he gets beat on a busted play in which the QB scrambled and somehow manage to find an open receiver?? That speaks more to Rothlisberger's ability than to how ****** Faggins is. Roy Williams got smoked twice yesterday on deep passes so he must suck huh??? :ok:


I'd stick with Buchanon another game and see if he could redeem himself. He's suppose to be this great cover corner so I'd rather see him one more game than see them put somebody out there that you know is going to be a target all game long.

Hey I hope Faggins becomes an All Pro. But I'm expecting the posts to come out asking for his head on a platter if he gets smoked in Cincy.

The Preacher
09-20-2005, 05:29 PM
its right under the fire capers button


I hate to say it but to fire Palmer was arrogant, downright shameful in my best Texas accent. :howdy: I wasn't even a huge Palmer fan but it's hard to run an offense without good blocking. :slap:

Bubbajwp
09-20-2005, 05:35 PM
I hate to say it but to fire Palmer was arrogant, downright shameful in my best Texas accent. :howdy: I wasn't even a huge Palmer fan but it's hard to run an offense without good blocking. :slap:
I wish that they would have gave palmer one shot at having the final say over capers on ofense for one game. I see more running and more sacks in the near future. :crying: :crying:

TheOgre
09-20-2005, 05:39 PM
I have a feeling we will still see a lot of PB and Babin. Hopefully one of the two turns into a good player.

Hervoyel
09-20-2005, 05:43 PM
Why wasn't Bradford benched as well? Anyway, i'm glad to see Capers do something like this to send a message. You either play hard and do your job or somebody will come in and do it for you. I like that.

Because Bradford had a good game with one heart breaking, soul killing drop that made the entire stadium scream with rage. He dropped one ball that drove a dagger through our hearts but after that he went on to play well. That fits right into the Dom approach of "Come back and keep on fighting".

Also I really believe that we'll see Babin work his way back into the starting lineup unless Orr just really dominates out of the blue. This is an attention getter for both Babin and Buchanon.

Everyone needs to start praying right now that Babin answers the challenge. I'm pretty sure (though not 100% positive) that it's too late for Buchanon. He's in his fourth season so you would think that if he had what it took he'd still be a Raider.

You know the Texans are keeping another Houston football tradition going. As long as I can remember the Raiders were fleecing the Oilers in trades. Looks like they're still good at getting the best of the Houston team.

infantrycak
09-20-2005, 05:50 PM
Everyone needs to start praying right now that Babin answers the challenge. I'm pretty sure (though not 100% positive) that it's too late for Buchanon. He's in his fourth season so you would think that if he had what it took he'd still be a Raider.

The accountability question I want an answer to (and will probably never get) is who were the architects of the Buchanon trade. Sure Casserly pulled the trigger and made the announcement, but he has NFL scouts and he has the coaches. Was Hoke all excited about this? If so, the tarnish is off his golden halo. If this was Casserly's baby and he delivered to unwanting parents Capers/Hoke, then Casserly's seat needs to have the heat turned up.

exclude
09-20-2005, 05:53 PM
Because Bradford had a good game with one heart breaking, soul killing drop that made the entire stadium scream with rage. He dropped one ball that drove a dagger through our hearts but after that he went on to play well. That fits right into the Dom approach of "Come back and keep on fighting".
....


Hmm, those heart breaking, soul killing drops seem to come with amazing regularity for Mister Bradford.

And that acrobatic grab that he caught, that one in which it was thrown STRAIGHT at him but luckily he manage to bobble it and thus create great dramatic effect in such a way that it made you think "Man, that was a great catch" when instant replay showed that it wasn't quite the case, was one of the most breathtaking receptions ever seen in these parts since the days of Haywood Jefferies. I love Corey Bradford !!! :homer:

nunusguy
09-20-2005, 06:02 PM
The accountability question I want an answer to (and will probably never get) is who were the architects of the Buchanon trade. Sure Casserly pulled the trigger and made the announcement, but he has NFL scouts and he has the coaches. Was Hoke all excited about this? If so, the tarnish is off his golden halo. If this was Casserly's baby and he delivered to unwanting parents Capers/Hoke, then Casserly's seat needs to have the heat turned up.
Very goods. I wonder how much Cass really knows about the D side of the game ? I caught him on 610 earlier this year when he fumbled around with a definition of BRs old "46 defense", then finally suggested it was a question better handled by the coaches. That should be a pretty basic question to handle I'd think.
But the heartbreaking thing about these guys who were benched, even if one
of them doesn't bounce back that's the loss of 2 first day picks you never
get any value for. That's 2 players, one of which if not both, who are expected to start or play for you quite a bit over the next 5-10 years. If
both are busts, that's a really big hit to the teams future.

throwANDREtheBALL
09-20-2005, 06:06 PM
It seems to me this is kind of like when the government botched in their efforts to help after Hurricane Katrina.

remember when fearless leader, President BUSH said, "We're gonna investigate into it to and figure out what went RIGHT and what went WRONG"

(and everyone was thinking to themselves, NOTHING WENT RIGHT!)

They should do an investigation into who did the (drafting/draft deals/picked who to sign in FA) and they should figure out what went RIGHT and what went WRONG.

Chris Palmer was like the FEMA director, and was an easy first target. (I'm not sure if he was a JUDGE at horse shows though?) but we've gotta work our way up until we've replaced all the numb-skulls with some guys that aren't afraid to do SOMETHING, instead of waiting weeks to send help. Just like our Front Office waiting 4 YEARS to fix the offensive line.

I'll admit, after making my donations to the Katrina fund, I was still feeling helpless, ticked off and frustrated with the way things were run by the BIG guys upstairs (government/Congress). Its the exact same feeling I feel with the Texans. Its just sick really, how these guys still have jobs after diddling for this long.

infantrycak
09-20-2005, 06:08 PM
The Buchanon transaction I am more focused on than some moves in part because Hoke's status has been elevated to god recently around here and it seems to me if you are trying to decide whether a 1st round talent is a bust or can be coached up, you would talk to the guy who is going to have to coach him up and I will bet that guy had a strong opinion one way or the other. That's my $50,000 question--what side of the fence was Hoke on and was it listened to?

Malloy
09-20-2005, 06:09 PM
Did our Front Office do anything right in the past 2 off-seasons ?

honestly, I can only see screw-ups.

D-rob?

thegr8fan
09-20-2005, 06:10 PM
All you're going to get is people throwing at Faggins all game long and he'll get beat. He'll tackle them sure but after they make 30 yards. and this is different from what teams did to P-Buc, HOW??? :rolleyes:

Faggins is a pretty good CB. I am glad to see him getting a shot at proving it. Yeah, when the QB gets 10-15 seconds he does throw a good pass and Faggins got burnt, so give me a list of CB's who can cover their man for 10-15 seconds EVERY TIME?

some of the knocks on Faggins aren't really his fault even. Other players sometimes have the longer zone responsibility's.

P-Buc is a bust at this point and time. What are our options, leave him in there and hope he gets better or put in our nickel and dime CB Faggins. Who is probably a starter on some teams in the NFL, IMHO.

As for the Babin move, you gotta be kidding right? I hope Orr is another 'diamond in the rough'. Or the only message Capers will be sending is 'we can't do it with you and we can't do it without you, Babin. So play however you please, but please play', IMHO.

throwANDREtheBALL
09-20-2005, 06:16 PM
yah, but a top 15 pick is pretty hard to screw up.

look at the other guys available

Jonathan Vilma
DJ williams
Tommie Harris

either way it was gonna be a good pick. Although I wouldn't put it past him to screw it up. It seems like these guys need a top 10 pick to get a good player. Anything after the top 10 picks and Casserly looks like he's looking for a tear-drop in an ocean. In other words, he's reaching and searching and coming up with nothin' to show for it. Casserly knows the draft classes so well, he's giving his picks away to other teams so he doesn't look like such an *****.

Bubbajwp
09-20-2005, 06:20 PM
yah, but a top 15 pick is pretty hard to screw up.

look at the other guys available

Jonathan Vilma
DJ williams
Tommie Harris

either way it was gonna be a good pick. Although I wouldn't put it past him to screw it up. It seems like these guys need a top 10 pick to get a good player. Anything after the top 10 picks and Casserly looks like he's looking for a tear-drop in an ocean. In other words, he's reaching and searching and coming up with nothin' to show for it. Casserly knows the draft classes so well, he's giving his picks away to other teams so he doesn't look like such an *****.
He must be pretty darn good then because he found DD. :jk: One player in four drafts isnt that good.

rmartin65
09-20-2005, 06:29 PM
I dont quite know about benching Babin but i think Faggins can do okay. maybe have the saftey slide over a bit

Panther5407
09-20-2005, 07:12 PM
http://www.houstontexans.com/news/news_detail.php?PRKey=1983
I guess they are just as made as we are, you dont do your job you dont get to start.

Exascor
09-20-2005, 07:13 PM
They sure were as posted in this thread (http://www.houstontexans.com/fan_zone/messageboards/showthread.php?t=12578) :)

RTP2110
09-20-2005, 07:21 PM
Ha, I remember after the Babin trade, someone asked Casserly why he traded away so many picks to get hime. His response was something along the lines of ''well we felt like we already had alot of guys on our roster who were as good as any mid round picks''. Of course I'm kinda paraphrasing, maybe someone else remembers the quote. Anyways it was the craziest thing I ever heard. Every team has players as good what they'll get in the draft. That doesn't mean give all you picks away. Here's a better idea, let's just cancel the whole draft save for round 1.

SESupergenius
09-20-2005, 07:28 PM
Please keep in mind that Faggins got torched by Gabriel of the Raiders in pre-season. A decent nickelback does not a starting cornerback make. There's a reason he's a nickel, and basically not even that on most other teams.

Nawzer
09-20-2005, 07:29 PM
I'm not surprised at all by these moves. I don't think Faggins is necessarily an upgrade over Buchanon but something needs to be done to get his attention. As for Babin, I've never liked his play and I still don't understand why they drafted him. I think Charlie Anderson or Shantee Orr are much better options at that spot.

HomeBred_Texan
09-20-2005, 07:39 PM
Ha, I remember after the Babin trade, someone asked Casserly why he traded away so many picks to get hime. His response was something along the lines of ''well we felt like we already had alot of guys on our roster who were as good as any mid round picks''. Of course I'm kinda paraphrasing, maybe someone else remembers the quote. Anyways it was the craziest thing I ever heard. Every team has players as good what they'll get in the draft. That doesn't mean give all you picks away. Here's a better idea, let's just cancel the whole draft save for round 1.
And I havent heard anyone mentioning our lst 1st round pick who I still havent seen play. 1st rounders are always suppose to be starters...

Exascor
09-20-2005, 07:46 PM
1st rounders are always suppose to be starters...Someone please forward this to all 32 NFL teams please. They must have missed the memo.

If you watch the games you'll see a big guy with the #75 on his jersey while we're playing defense. He's played in both games so far but hasn't started (or admittedly made much of an impact).

HomeBred_Texan
09-20-2005, 07:53 PM
If you watch the games you'll see a big guy with the #75 on his jersey while we're playing defense. He's played in both games so far but hasn't started (or admittedly made much of an impact).

that's why I have missed him. A 1st round pick and not even a starter, but he was "our" guy that we had to have. Fed up with Capers... Getting old quick...

TMac48
09-20-2005, 08:06 PM
I like the moves....but why is this happening right now?

Why didn't this happen during training camp, or after game 1?

Orr has been solid every time when he's in the game. I think it was the Atlanta game last year when he made a few awesome plays although he was limited in playing time.

And Buchanon should have also been benched after game 1.

Again, it's just more confusing than ever. At what point did Capers just decide to pull the switch? To me, if he makes these two player moves, he knows he should have made them weeks ago or even in training camp.

Is CAPERS really pulling these moves or is it someone above him TELLING him to do this and he gets to be the face? If Capers is doing this, and this is his doings, including the Palmer firing, then he sure waited a heck of a long time to make what he is now trying to say is a logical series of decisions he needed to make.

I still say something's fishy in H-Town, and it ain't the oysters.

If Capers really made all these moves on his own, then on one hand he gets a high-five from me. But the other hand I stick behind my back because he should have made some drastic moves during the preseason. The bad play of Babin and Buchanon didn't just start last week. Any sane person knows that.

BUt, I guess if you're going to fire the OC, you might as well use the momentum and do some more shaking up to show the team that it's not just coaches who are on the bubble.

Go figure.

While he's at it, Capers can admit he should have kept Swinton for kick returns AND punt returns. At least go back and get JJ Moses (if he'd even agree to play for us!). Morency is a joke at KR.
Man, all I ever see you do on this board is b itch. Why don't you just wait and see what happens instead of complaining because it wasn't done sooner. Ok, maybe it should have been done sooner, but what matters is that it's being done now and we still have 14 games left. Let's just wait and see if it lights a fire under everybody's *****. I have a feeling it will.

rockabilly
09-20-2005, 08:21 PM
I must say im glad to see some movement in this Texans franchise. I like whats going down. This is the most DRAMA the Texans have ever had...and I think it shows that there is some kind of urgency to start winning.

Do I think changes should of been made earlier? YES.

Do I think these are long term solutions? NO.

Do I think this is a step in the right direction? MAYBE.

The player demotions is gonna hit the players hard. They all need to know that there jobs arent safe. It will make them play that much harder.

And lets see what Pendry does before we judge.

TexansRoll
09-20-2005, 08:25 PM
At what point did Capers just decide to pull the switch?

After he read this board

rockabilly
09-20-2005, 08:35 PM
After he read this board

hmmm...i wonder if they really do read this board.

I must say one thing about the organization. Im glad they let fans express and totally let their voices be heard on a message board hosted on their site. Im glad that they don't censor such a thing. We are lucky to be able to have this official board filled with all our thoughts - negative or positive.

GP
09-20-2005, 08:36 PM
I "gripe" about three things, and three things only TMAC:

1. Carr not owning up to his errors and not taking HIS offense on his shoulders. Forget our o line and its woes. He's got to overcome that TODAY and just find ways to move on without them. Too many people are getting caught up in how poor our o line is, and they bail out Carr in the process.

2. Stupid personnel moves. You CANNOT tell me I don't have a legitimate gripe about the inept personnel decisions such as Buchanon, cutting Swinton, cutting Sloan Thomas, etc. Anybody with an eye for football (and not for politics) could see that certain people on this team are WORTHY of not only making the team but also of starting, but they don't get the chance because of pure politics. Which leads me to my next "gripe" that you feel I am in unjust of having...

3. Capers. I just refuse to get all happy and giddy about Palmer being fired when both Palmer AND Capers should have been canned. Had I seen management say "You know what, both of 'em need to go...," you would see one happy Texans fan. My gripe list would be cut down to only 1 (Carr) because getting rid of Capers is the last step needed for our recovery to begin. The guy is DONE. No tinkering by Capers will make a lasting impression or change our teama round. Capers IS the problem.

But I'm some big loser because I don't get the faith and get the fire when they keep Capers (when he should be gone). So, politics is still alive and well.

You guys are so desperate for a STINKIN WIN that you will sell our team's future for it. As long as SOMETHING works and we get a win, it's OK by you. You get to feel good for a week...and then we get blown out the next week. The whole thing just repeats itself in some sort of sick cycle and all the while there are so many fans here who honestly only care about winning a game here and there and NOT caring about the long term future of this team.

I have seen veteran members of this board who in years past would defend this team to the hilt during a time like this, and now they are tired of this mess as much (or more) than I am.

So attack me personally if you want. I guess you're part of the group that thinks a few tinker moves will get us back on the right track. It might do the trick for a few games, but we'll always be right back here in pity party land wondering why-oh-why things went so horribly wrong when we had just began to win games again. And as long as a lot of the current coaches (Capers at the head of that list) remain and receive get-out-of-jail-free cards while they pin the blame on other people, I just don't see much to cheer about because the players cannot overcome that sort of atmosphere.

I can gripe if I want to. Put me on your ignore list if it bothers you so much. I don't care what you think of me or what you think about what I post. You're wasting your time if you think you're so important that I need to obey you and only write silver lining pie-in-the-sky posts that make me into some super-fan homer and some cheer leader for a team that honestly is not worthy being praised right now.

I'll say it and say it and say it: Capers getting canned will shut me up. Until that happens, nothing good on the field will last for long. And you all just need to brace yourselves for the reality that Capers making some bold moves is NOT the answer for any long term success. Which gets me back to my point that I made in my earlier post:

If these moves are so great, why didn't he make them weeks ago since even the casual Texans fan noticed that Buchanon is not the answer, the offensive plans and schemes are horrible, and Babin is only efefctive against the run and not a good pass rusher, etc., etc., etc.? All Capers' bold moves do to me is make me mad because he waited until the wheels fell off to fire Palmer, and to make player moves when he KNOWS he should have made them in camp or in preseason. So he didn't get some sort of out-of-the-blue lightning bolt revelation after this past game. He has known about this for a long time, and he's getting patted on the back for making these moves now when he should have made them before the season started. Faggins and Orr might have made a huuuuuuge difference in team attitude and performance in the first two games but we'll never know.

It's a short season (16 games) not 82 or 162. 16 games. Losing yor first two games just puts you in the worst position possible. Winning two-in-a-row only gets you back to .500 and you've got 12 games left. Tick tock, Tick tock. In the NFL, you can't come out of the gate slow and expect to make up ground easily. Just answer me this: Do you think Capers can turn this team around, or is he the problem? You know my answer. What's your answer to this question, TMAC?

keyfro
09-20-2005, 08:36 PM
you what...i can't say that these are the right moves but i am gonna say they're better than doing nothing...maybe giving orr and faggins a week to start will lite a fire under babin and buchanan's butts...did i like the babin and buchanan trades...no...i was ok with the buchanan one till the season started but not anymore...fangio needs to go as well and we need to promote hoke as d. coordinator in my opinion...i think the reason why orr got the start over anderson is because of his motor...reminds me of peek...bottom line we're gonna continue to see changes throughout the season and it is an interesting time to be a texan fan...not good but interesting...interesting to see which players are worth keeping and which we should just let go

HardCoreTxn
09-20-2005, 08:54 PM
While he's at it, Capers can admit he should have kept Swinton for kick returns AND punt returns. At least go back and get JJ Moses (if he'd even agree to play for us!). Morency is a joke at KR.

We dont need JJ...IMO, Morency is only K/R because of Mathis' injury..I would like to see this kid Donovan Morgan come up from the practice squad and return punts/kicks rather than trying to get JJ. Hopefully when Mathis comes back, we will see Morency backing up DD a lil more and not returning kicks.

blockhead83
09-20-2005, 09:01 PM
I "gripe" about three things, and three things only TMAC:

1. Carr not owning up to his errors and not taking HIS offense on his shoulders. Forget our o line and its woes. He's got to overcome that TODAY and just find ways to move on without them. Too many people are getting caught up in how poor our o line is, and they bail out Carr in the process.

2. Stupid personnel moves. You CANNOT tell me I don't have a legitimate gripe about the inept personnel decisions such as Buchanon, cutting Swinton, cutting Sloan Thomas, etc. Anybody with an eye for football (and not for politics) could see that certain people on this team are WORTHY of not only making the team but also of starting, but they don't get the chance because of pure politics. Which leads me to my next "gripe" that you feel I am in unjust of having...

3. Capers. I just refuse to get all happy and giddy about Palmer being fired when both Palmer AND Capers should have been canned. Had I seen management say "You know what, both of 'em need to go...," you would see one happy Texans fan. My gripe list would be cut down to only 1 (Carr) because getting rid of Capers is the last step needed for our recovery to begin. The guy is DONE. No tinkering by Capers will make a lasting impression or change our teama round. Capers IS the problem.

But I'm some big loser because I don't get the faith and get the fire when they keep Capers (when he should be gone). So, politics is still alive and well.

You guys are so desperate for a STINKIN WIN that you will sell our team's future for it. As long as SOMETHING works and we get a win, it's OK by you. You get to feel good for a week...and then we get blown out the next week. The whole thing just repeats itself in some sort of sick cycle and all the while there are so many fans here who honestly only care about winning a game here and there and NOT caring about the long term future of this team.

I have seen veteran members of this board who in years past would defend this team to the hilt during a time like this, and now they are tired of this mess as much (or more) than I am.

So attack me personally if you want. I guess you're part of the group that thinks a few tinker moves will get us back on the right track. It might do the trick for a few games, but we'll always be right back here in pity party land wondering why-oh-why things went so horribly wrong when we had just began to win games again. And as long as a lot of the current coaches (Capers at the head of that list) remain and receive get-out-of-jail-free cards while they pin the blame on other people, I just don't see much to cheer about because the players cannot overcome that sort of atmosphere.

I can gripe if I want to. Put me on your ignore list if it bothers you so much. I don't care what you think of me or what you think about what I post. You're wasting your time if you think you're so important that I need to obey you and only write silver lining pie-in-the-sky posts that make me into some super-fan homer and some cheer leader for a team that honestly is not worthy being praised right now.

I'll say it and say it and say it: Capers getting canned will shut me up. Until that happens, nothing good on the field will last for long. And you all just need to brace yourselves for the reality that Capers making some bold moves is NOT the answer for any long term success. Which gets me back to my point that I made in my earlier post:

If these moves are so great, why didn't he make them weeks ago since even the casual Texans fan noticed that Buchanon is not the answer, the offensive plans and schemes are horrible, and Babin is only efefctive against the run and not a good pass rusher, etc., etc., etc.? All Capers' bold moves do to me is make me mad because he waited until the wheels fell off to fire Palmer, and to make player moves when he KNOWS he should have made them in camp or in preseason. So he didn't get some sort of out-of-the-blue lightning bolt revelation after this past game. He has known about this for a long time, and he's getting patted on the back for making these moves now when he should have made them before the season started. Faggins and Orr might have made a huuuuuuge difference in team attitude and performance in the first two games but we'll never know.

It's a short season (16 games) not 82 or 162. 16 games. Losing yor first two games just puts you in the worst position possible. Winning two-in-a-row only gets you back to .500 and you've got 12 games left. Tick tock, Tick tock. In the NFL, you can't come out of the gate slow and expect to make up ground easily. Just answer me this: Do you think Capers can turn this team around, or is he the problem? You know my answer. What's your answer to this question, TMAC?

He's right, nobody say anything positive about the Texans anymore. Everything that was good has died and Capers is the anti-christ.

Doom Capers
09-20-2005, 09:04 PM
....so faggins will be up against Chad Johnson? Why not Robinson? Good corner vs good reveiver makes sense to me.

TMac48
09-20-2005, 09:24 PM
I "gripe" about three things, and three things only TMAC:

1. Carr not owning up to his errors and not taking HIS offense on his shoulders. Forget our o line and its woes. He's got to overcome that TODAY and just find ways to move on without them. Too many people are getting caught up in how poor our o line is, and they bail out Carr in the process.

2. Stupid personnel moves. You CANNOT tell me I don't have a legitimate gripe about the inept personnel decisions such as Buchanon, cutting Swinton, cutting Sloan Thomas, etc. Anybody with an eye for football (and not for politics) could see that certain people on this team are WORTHY of not only making the team but also of starting, but they don't get the chance because of pure politics. Which leads me to my next "gripe" that you feel I am in unjust of having...

3. Capers. I just refuse to get all happy and giddy about Palmer being fired when both Palmer AND Capers should have been canned. Had I seen management say "You know what, both of 'em need to go...," you would see one happy Texans fan. My gripe list would be cut down to only 1 (Carr) because getting rid of Capers is the last step needed for our recovery to begin. The guy is DONE. No tinkering by Capers will make a lasting impression or change our teama round. Capers IS the problem.

But I'm some big loser because I don't get the faith and get the fire when they keep Capers (when he should be gone). So, politics is still alive and well.

You guys are so desperate for a STINKIN WIN that you will sell our team's future for it. As long as SOMETHING works and we get a win, it's OK by you. You get to feel good for a week...and then we get blown out the next week. The whole thing just repeats itself in some sort of sick cycle and all the while there are so many fans here who honestly only care about winning a game here and there and NOT caring about the long term future of this team.

I have seen veteran members of this board who in years past would defend this team to the hilt during a time like this, and now they are tired of this mess as much (or more) than I am.

So attack me personally if you want. I guess you're part of the group that thinks a few tinker moves will get us back on the right track. It might do the trick for a few games, but we'll always be right back here in pity party land wondering why-oh-why things went so horribly wrong when we had just began to win games again. And as long as a lot of the current coaches (Capers at the head of that list) remain and receive get-out-of-jail-free cards while they pin the blame on other people, I just don't see much to cheer about because the players cannot overcome that sort of atmosphere.

I can gripe if I want to. Put me on your ignore list if it bothers you so much. I don't care what you think of me or what you think about what I post. You're wasting your time if you think you're so important that I need to obey you and only write silver lining pie-in-the-sky posts that make me into some super-fan homer and some cheer leader for a team that honestly is not worthy being praised right now.

I'll say it and say it and say it: Capers getting canned will shut me up. Until that happens, nothing good on the field will last for long. And you all just need to brace yourselves for the reality that Capers making some bold moves is NOT the answer for any long term success. Which gets me back to my point that I made in my earlier post:

If these moves are so great, why didn't he make them weeks ago since even the casual Texans fan noticed that Buchanon is not the answer, the offensive plans and schemes are horrible, and Babin is only efefctive against the run and not a good pass rusher, etc., etc., etc.? All Capers' bold moves do to me is make me mad because he waited until the wheels fell off to fire Palmer, and to make player moves when he KNOWS he should have made them in camp or in preseason. So he didn't get some sort of out-of-the-blue lightning bolt revelation after this past game. He has known about this for a long time, and he's getting patted on the back for making these moves now when he should have made them before the season started. Faggins and Orr might have made a huuuuuuge difference in team attitude and performance in the first two games but we'll never know.

It's a short season (16 games) not 82 or 162. 16 games. Losing yor first two games just puts you in the worst position possible. Winning two-in-a-row only gets you back to .500 and you've got 12 games left. Tick tock, Tick tock. In the NFL, you can't come out of the gate slow and expect to make up ground easily. Just answer me this: Do you think Capers can turn this team around, or is he the problem? You know my answer. What's your answer to this question, TMAC?
Calm down a bit. All i'm saying is that there is no reason to get on this board and complain over and over again about things that you can't change. I'm not saying that these few small moves are going to save our season, i'm just saying that i'm glad they are finally doing something. Yeah, we've made some stupid personnel moves, but what's the use of continuously complaining about them? We just have to nut up and do what we can with what we have. I'm sure that even when they fire Capers (and they will) I'll be able to come to this board and read your posts about how they should have done it sooner and they should have hired somebody else, blah freakin blah. It's simple, the FO has made bad decisions, there's nothing we can do about. Posting the same friggin' complaints over and over again certainly isn't going to fix anything. However, the firing of the OC and benching of 2 starters on defense should definately get things moving in the right direction.

beerlover
09-20-2005, 10:12 PM
it feels like Hurricane Rita touchdown three days early :eek:

GP
09-20-2005, 10:36 PM
My main point is that nothing short of firing Capers, as well as possibly a few more coaching changes, will do anything for this team's long-term success.

I can't rah-rah sis-boom-bah until Capers is out of here.

I almost got happy about the player changes, but I knew in my heart that the real road to recovery lies in firing Capers. Only then will I be able to fully support and cheer this team like I used to. To me, and this is just me, getting excited over ANY move made by Capers is sort of like pretending that Capers has no involvement in this situation. He IS the problem.

Just hoping that he goes into retirement soon. I don't want to root against a player or a coach, but I sure don't want him to buy some magic beans and sprout a fluke win here and there and thus buy himself more time than he should get. Thanks for the expansion team memories, Dom. But it's time to part ways. A new chapter is about to be written by this team.

Rant done.

:texflag:

:texans:

eriadoc
09-20-2005, 10:45 PM
What I don't get is the Buchanon benching. I won't defend his play at all, but if they went to all the trouble to acquire him and trade away draft picks only to give him a leash of two games, why bother? It feels like they were apprehensive that he'd play poorly and when it materialized, they benched him. So again, why bother? Let some othe rteam get burned by the trade. At least Babin has had 18 regular season games + preseason to prove he's a bust. P-Buch has had two. You have to admit, that's a pretty small sample size for any NFL player, not to mention one that you've given up quite a bit for. If they were factoring in his Raider games as part of his test, then they should never have acquired him.

:wacko:

Boxscore
09-20-2005, 10:55 PM
Did anyone catch the Phillip Buchanon interview about him getting benched to a backup role? To me, he acted like it wasn't a big deal to him, in fact he acted a little cocky/humored by it. I sure do wish we still had Aaron Glenn, a player who really did care about his performance.

ArlingtonTexan
09-20-2005, 11:07 PM
Did anyone catch the Phillip Buchanon interview about him getting benched to a backup role? To me, he acted like it wasn't a big deal to him, in fact he acted a little cocky/humored by it. I sure do wish we still had Aaron Glenn, a player who really did care about his performance.

The not big deal thing does not bother me as much as does not seem to process that the proper move in that situation was to stop the player from getting in the endzone versus tryiing to strip Parker of the ball at the 3 yardline. He wants to make the big play but can't grasp that make the solid one is often a bigger deal than spectacular one.

Big78
09-21-2005, 12:04 AM
Faggins isn't much of an upgrade to me.
atleast he doesn't let the running back run right past him for the touchdown. he might as well have offered him a piggy- :brickwall back ride.

cuppacoffee
09-21-2005, 12:22 AM
Did anyone catch the Phillip Buchanon interview about him getting benched to a backup role? To me, he acted like it wasn't a big deal to him, in fact he acted a little cocky/humored by it. I sure do wish we still had Aaron Glenn, a player who really did care about his performance.

Babin didn't seem upset either. I would like to have seen a little fire in his actions and at least act like it bothered him.

SESupergenius
09-21-2005, 12:53 AM
I fear that Capers is losing his players.

PapaL
09-21-2005, 08:20 AM
I fear that Capers is losing his players.

I think he has already lost the players. Buh-Bye Capers!

U4ikrob
09-21-2005, 09:10 AM
I fear that Capers is losing his players.

I said pretty much the same thing in the Palmer fired thread yesterday. I think alot of the players have lost confidence in the the staff in general. Honestly for a defensive Coach - Mr. Capers has done little to build a quality defense much less a defense that dominates which was his job to do.

IMO Capers, Fangio and Casserley have reached the end of the rope too. These 3 are the responsible parties in all the decision making for the defense - a defense thats placed consistently in the bottom qtr/half of the nfl since they have been here with only 1 standout draft pick in 4 years thats made any impact and this years team has shown to be making no ground on being a better defense than the last 3 years. "Dont rush, we got plenty of time" is the phrase that comes to mind when I think of the Texans D.

Call a spade a spade - The offense stinks for sure - but the defense is what keeps us in the game and was supposed to be our stronger squad, yet the decision makers got rid of a pro-bowl CB, both leaders in tackling for the team and traded mutliple draft picks for sub-par talent that they have now demoted as overvalued and non-producing talent. Honestly which has failed more to produce - The Offense or the Defense from the supposed Defenseive guru coach Capers?

Tulip
09-21-2005, 09:22 AM
I know this is a motivation tool for PBuc and Babin, but I am so pleased that Shantee Orr is starting. He's been a favorite of mine since the injury-plagued 2003 season. He was the first LB around here to show any passion or fire.

SESupergenius
09-21-2005, 11:14 AM
Well I say we all just wait until after this next game. It's probably the most crucial game for Capers/Casserly. We either turn it around here or panic will really be setting in. Let's see the changes that have come to the offense, see if we can move the ball, see if our defense has a spark lit under them, and see if Pendry can make a difference.

johnboy
09-21-2005, 11:15 AM
First off Babin & Buchanon were not the ones that gave up the draft picks for themselves. But every story starts off on that issue (people get over it).Buchanon played horrible in both of the games it should have showen up in film when he was at Oakland, that he was that bad.(Problem management) Babins play against buff was not that bad no pass rush but play the run o k, against Pitt it as horrible but If the management thinks this will help the offense score points lots of luck. Babin & Buchanon need to get there s... together maybe this will help, But Carr & the receivers all of them including Johnson is in the same boat. Carr needs to throw the ball not hold on to it Receivers need to get open and catch it. D D needs to learn how to block.Big money was spend on alot of people that are not performing.Maybe there should be changes in the offensive side of the ball not just firing the offensive coordinator.
All I know is people that have potential never won anyone a game.(you have to perform on the field)
Also the cemetary is full of people that couldn't be replaced.(All the players should rethink there play)

rmartin65
09-21-2005, 02:48 PM
bring back pettway.:jk:

SESupergenius
09-21-2005, 03:05 PM
All we really need is.....http://www.mykemaze.com/forum/files/thumbs/t_more_cowbell.jpg

BABINFAN
09-21-2005, 09:24 PM
in defense of Jason Babin, I played with him and am personal friends with he and his family in Paw Paw, Mi....but he played Defense END in college for 4 years. Your scouts knew that, and took the risk of trying to convert him to a new position he's never played before, especially dropping back in coverage..etc. Just because he sucks right now, I'm still sticking with him because God knows Jay will work harder than hell now to get that job back. It may be a motivating factor that he's never had before...they gave him the starting job practically at the damn press conference last year!!!! Let's see what happens from here out. I too, want to see improvement from him and the Texans. But to the scouts out there who took that risk, more blame should be on them than on Jay in my opinion.

JustBonee
09-21-2005, 10:27 PM
in defense of Jason Babin, I played with him and am personal friends with he and his family in Paw Paw, Mi....but he played Defense END in college for 4 years. Your scouts knew that, and took the risk of trying to convert him to a new position he's never played before ....
The Texan coaches seem to have a knack for doing that way too often with players. :thumbdown

Doom Capers
09-22-2005, 01:23 AM
in defense of Jason Babin, I played with him and am personal friends with he and his family in Paw Paw, Mi....but he played Defense END in college for 4 years. Your scouts knew that, and took the risk of trying to convert him to a new position he's never played before, especially dropping back in coverage..etc. Just because he sucks right now, I'm still sticking with him because God knows Jay will work harder than hell now to get that job back. It may be a motivating factor that he's never had before...they gave him the starting job practically at the damn press conference last year!!!! Let's see what happens from here out. I too, want to see improvement from him and the Texans. But to the scouts out there who took that risk, more blame should be on them than on Jay in my opinion.


He will improve. He just needs time.

scourge
09-22-2005, 01:28 AM
in defense of Jason Babin, I played with him and am personal friends with he and his family in Paw Paw, Mi....
You played with him? It says you're 43 years old. What, was it in a flag football game?

GP
09-22-2005, 01:34 AM
To me, he's a leaner and a spinner. He'll just extend himself into some sort of leaning position up against an o lineman at the snap of the ball, and then he tries the spin move off of the lean. The result is Babin gets beat up regularly.

I see a light body going up against BIG o linemen, and he's just getting tossed around like a rag doll.

His undersized frame, against those big O linemen, is not any match.

He tries hard, don;t get me wrong. But it's a losing battle in terms of pass rushing.

keyfro
09-22-2005, 07:29 PM
i think babin relies too much on the inside pass rushing lane...if you watch him rush the passer too many times does he tries to go inside the tackle...he needs to develop and outside pass rush technique...after all he is the Outside linebacker and the Outside pass rusher...not sure what exactly he did so early in training camp to merrit the starting job as a rookie but he definetly can do better...i think the scouts screwed up big time along with fangio on thinking he was gonna be the next kevin greene...i think capers and casserly should have known that too...anyone can see he doesn't even have the same mentality as greene...he's not that crazy pyscho pass rusher who headbutts players without a helmet...he's the quiet guy on the field most of the time...needless to say this is one of casserly's numerous mistakes during his time here in houston

blockhead83
09-22-2005, 09:38 PM
As much as I dislike watching Babin struggle, I am interested to see Orr get some playing time. Anyone remember who sacked Michael Vick to put the last nail in the coffin when we played the Falcons? That's right, Shantee Orr, this guy has always had a knack at making the most of his opportunities, similar to another fan favorite, Antwan Peek. I want to see Babin work hard to become a starter once again, but I also want to see if Shantee Orr can provide us with a spark with increased play time.

As for Buchanon, he has looked absolutely embarrassing and pathetic. There's no two ways about it, he has sucked. The only impressive thing I've seen him do is make a nice tackle near the sidelines on McGahee in week 1. That's one play I can think of where he looked good. Teams are gunning for him every down and he's making them look smart for doing so. Faggins did well against Marvin Harrison when he got his first start, hopefully he can do better than Buchanon has. It really shouldn't be too difficult to outshine Buchanon's play, just break up atleast one pass and try to remember we're not playing two hand touch....

All in all it's been a miserable start to the season, and I was really psyched as usual before it began. Carr feels pressure even when he has none now, which is rare. There's been numerous plays where he just needs to step up in the pocket, but instead he takes off sideways right into the defenders. The O-line hasn't been playing superb football, but Carr isn't helping them out because he isn't making good use of the protection they DO provide. He has horrible pocket presence, there is absolutely no argument otherwise. If he can't move the ball in the coming weeks, he needs to ride the bench and give a different quarterback a chance. What's there to lose if he doesn't improve? We'll lose 27-0 instead of 27-7?

Hervoyel
09-22-2005, 09:51 PM
Babin was probably a mistake but it's really too soon to tell. I'm not optimistic and think most comparisons to Kevin Greene are silly but here's two that I think matter.

First of all Kevin Greene didn't have double digit sacks until his fourth season and got none in his first year. Technically speaking Babin is(was?) off to a better start than Greene. What does this mean? Nothing.

Second, we can compare and contrast Babin to Greene all day long but the one thing that jumps out to me is that Kevin Greene cost the Rams a 5 when they drafted him. Jason Babin cost the Texans a 2, 3, and a 4. What does that mean? To me it means that Charlie Casserly got robbed bigtime unless Babin turns into a monster. A "good" OLB can be had much cheaper and obviously a great one can too. Just my opinion.

keyfro
09-22-2005, 10:53 PM
exactly and i think that's why when the trade was made so many of us were like what the f#%@?...none of really understood it...i mean...why pull the trigger on someone like that when speed rushers come out in every draft