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CowboysTexansFan
09-18-2005, 05:26 PM
Here is an excerpt from an article on CNNSI.com.

While Carr said his linemen ''fought their tails off,'' Pittsburgh linebacker Joey Porter heard Carr saying otherwise.

''He was arguing with his offensive line,'' Porter said. ''Whenever you get a quarterback arguing with his team that's a good sign.''


http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/nfl/recaps/2005/09/18/1570_recap.html

I'm wondering to what extent the players will say more about this sort of thing in the post-game interviews.

rmartin65
09-18-2005, 05:27 PM
if i was carr, id be pissed too.

Runner
09-18-2005, 05:28 PM
While Carr said his linemen ''fought their tails off,'' Pittsburgh linebacker Joey Porter heard Carr saying otherwise.



He may be confusing "fought their tails off" with "had their tails handed to them".

Tulip
09-18-2005, 05:29 PM
I also heard that DRob chewed out Buchanon and that Gary Walker chewed out Babin.

This team is imploding.

TexanAggie
09-18-2005, 05:30 PM
Carr was at fault just as bad as the line so lets not give carr any excuses........

CowboysTexansFan
09-18-2005, 05:33 PM
Tulip-where did you hear that? It doesn't surprise me at all that the wheels are starting to fall off.

Thanks in advance.

Tulip
09-18-2005, 05:35 PM
Tulip-where did you hear that? It doesn't surprise me at all that the wheels are starting to fall off.

Thanks in advance.

I heard it on 610 - on the fan feedback show. It may have been Matt Jackson, but I can't remember.

ROYDESTROY
09-18-2005, 05:36 PM
Here is an excerpt from an article on CNNSI.com.

While Carr said his linemen ''fought their tails off,'' Pittsburgh linebacker Joey Porter heard Carr saying otherwise.

''He was arguing with his offensive line,'' Porter said. ''Whenever you get a quarterback arguing with his team that's a good sign.''


http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/nfl/recaps/2005/09/18/1570_recap.html

I'm wondering to what extent the players will say more about this sort of thing in the post-game interviews.

THis is gonna get ugly

CowboysTexansFan
09-18-2005, 05:38 PM
It's going to get ugly around here, unfortunately, but I expect the Cowboys to whip some Redskin *** tomorrow night.

ROYDESTROY
09-18-2005, 05:39 PM
It's going to get ugly around here, unfortunately, but I expect the Cowboys to whip some Redskin *** tomorrow night.

I hope so...we will pay back Casserly for ruining your team..he hates Texas..he is a closet Redskins homer

CowboysTexansFan
09-18-2005, 05:41 PM
Whenever I talk to Redskin fans about Casserly, all they remember about him is how he wasted a very high pick in the first round on Heath Shuler. I hope CC gets his *** fired as GM of the Texans--the sooner, the better.

Hervoyel
09-18-2005, 05:52 PM
Carr was at fault just as bad as the line so lets not give carr any excuses........

Yes he was. I spent the entire afternoon doing nothing but watching David Carr in the pocket since there wasn't much doubt about the outcome of the game from early on. I paid for the ticket so I decided to put the time to good use for a change. Usually I'm too wound up and emotional to do more than scream at the appropriate moments and watch the ball. Today I had a strange feeling of calm come over me as I watched them come apart and mostly I ignored the ball. I watched the offensive line and the defence prior to the snap. After that I just watched Carr and when he took a snap I counted.

People, everbody. I know this is hard to accept but David Carr really stinks. Whether it's something he brought with him (I personally doubt it) or something he has become since he was drafted by the Texans (my view) can be debated but the fact remains. This guy is damaged goods and one of the worst starting quarterbacks in the NFL right now.

Happy feet, bad decisions, failure to learn even the most basic concepts needed to play his position. You name it and it can be pinned on David Carr right now. If I were the Texans coaches I'd bench him just to stop the carnage, His line is getting him sacked about 15% of the time. His line and his backs and tight ends combined are probably responsible for 40-50% of his problems. The rest is all David.

I don't see how anyone with eyes to see could continue to defend David Carr's play after this weekend. In two weeks the Bengals will continue this trail of destruction. Carr is very possibly done here folks.

CowboysTexansFan
09-18-2005, 06:00 PM
Sadly, I've come to the same conclusion. As I sat with my son wearing our David Carr battle red jerseys, I was hoping David would do well. Instead he got off to a bad start, and except for the touchdown drive, I saw nothing in his play that I found encouraging.

I'm still hoping he'll come around, but he may be damaged goods. Thanks a lot, Charlie and Dom.

the wonger need food
09-18-2005, 06:02 PM
Carr is very possibly done here folks.

You are 100% correct with this post. Plenty of people will try to defend the guy and blame the line, but Carr is horrible. At least 5 of the sacks were due to his lack of pocket presense.

For the love of god... someone please tell the guy that he can throw the ball away once he's outside of the tackle box. And that it is perfectly legal to step forward when there's pressure.

I've been saying it for a long time now and am that people are finally starting to realize that this guy is not the answer. He's barely an NFL quarterback at this point in his career.

Texansfan1980
09-18-2005, 06:03 PM
What happened with bucannon he just tapped the guy why didnt he tack the pittsburge player. Are the Texans Falling apart

Bubbajwp
09-18-2005, 06:11 PM
Yes he was. I spent the entire afternoon doing nothing but watching David Carr in the pocket since there wasn't much doubt about the outcome of the game from early on. I paid for the ticket so I decided to put the time to good use for a change. Usually I'm too wound up and emotional to do more than scream at the appropriate moments and watch the ball. Today I had a strange feeling of calm come over me as I watched them come apart and mostly I ignored the ball. I watched the offensive line and the defence prior to the snap. After that I just watched Carr and when he took a snap I counted.

People, everbody. I know this is hard to accept but David Carr really stinks. Whether it's something he brought with him (I personally doubt it) or something he has become since he was drafted by the Texans (my view) can be debated but the fact remains. This guy is damaged goods and one of the worst starting quarterbacks in the NFL right now.

Happy feet, bad decisions, failure to learn even the most basic concepts needed to play his position. You name it and it can be pinned on David Carr right now. If I were the Texans coaches I'd bench him just to stop the carnage, His line is getting him sacked about 15% of the time. His line and his backs and tight ends combined are probably responsible for 40-50% of his problems. The rest is all David.

I don't see how anyone with eyes to see could continue to defend David Carr's play after this weekend. In two weeks the Bengals will continue this trail of destruction. Carr is very possibly done here folks.
Carr was at fault just as bad as the line so lets not give carr any excuses........
David Carr 16/26 = 61.5% not bad
167 Yds 1TD 0Int -If Johnson and bradford hadnt dropped so many passes Carr might have had 200 or more yards and a higher completion percentage.
I don't understand why everybody thinks this is carr's fault and if you think our Oline played good then you need to watch the game again. read http://www.houstontexans.com/fan_zone/messageboards/showthread.php?t=12402

the wonger need food
09-18-2005, 06:12 PM
What happened with bucannon he just tapped the guy why didnt he tack the pittsburge player. Are the Texans Falling apart

Simply a lack of pride and heart.

Hervoyel
09-18-2005, 06:24 PM
David Carr 16/26 = 61.5% not bad
167 Yds 1TD 0Int -If Johnson and bradford hadnt dropped so many passes Carr might have had 200 or more yards and a higher completion percentage.
I don't understand why everybody thinks this is carr's fault and if you think our Oline played good then you need to watch the game again. read http://www.houstontexans.com/fan_zone/messageboards/showthread.php?t=12402

Well that's the problem with reading off someones statistics and trying to describe their game from that. Anywhere in those numbers do they list the number of times Carr scrambled out of a pocket that was holding instead of stepping up into it? Does it include his penalty for intentional grounding? More important than that does it take into account that he's been getting those penalties for three years now and still doesn't know better than to do it? Does it take into account the fact that he doesn't understand the concept of a "tackle box"?

Carr's stats were shown on the big screen during the game and I did a double take. My first thought was "He looks like he's having a pretty good day". Then I thought about it and I decided that Palmer was calling a very safe game for Carr today.

Texton
09-18-2005, 06:31 PM
I had fun watching the Texas the first 3 seasons, even though they were using those "older, slower, seasoned expansion draft picks". Now that CC and Dom have reinvented the team to be a "younger, faster team capable of sacking those quarterbacks" they have reinvented the team to expansion team status.

Jaimie Sharper, Aaron Glen, and company we really miss you!

I feel like Alice in Wonderland must have felt after she fell down the keyhole. This team doesn't look better it looks really bad. I don't think they can salvage this season with the present coaching staff and talent. Too bad David Carr has had a promising career sacked into the ground.

It's not Carr's fault that management never considered an offensive line improvement during drafts or free agency after it became apparent Boselli was a non-factor. So much for CC's draft philosphy of taking the best player on the board at the time!

If I was Carr I would be asking for a trade!

Mr. McNair.....this team needs your help now! :texflag:

Ibar_Harry
09-18-2005, 06:33 PM
Well that's the problem with reading off someones statistics and trying to describe their game from that. Anywhere in those numbers do they list the number of times Carr scrambled out of a pocket that was holding instead of stepping up into it? Does it include his penalty for intentional grounding? More important than that does it take into account that he's been getting those penalties for three years now and still doesn't know better than to do it? Does it take into account the fact that he doesn't understand the concept of a "tackle box"?

Carr's stats were shown on the big screen during the game and I did a double take. My first thought was "He looks like he's having a pretty good day". Then I thought about it and I decided that Palmer was calling a very safe game for Carr today.

Herv you and I disagree on a number of issues, but Carr never does call his own plays except for audibles. I think Capers and Palmer, and more likely Capers, micromanages this team into oblivion. While I'm not going to disagree with you in the way of what you are seeing performance wise, I think it is impossible to perform on this team because the coaches will criticize you for not doing what they actually told you to do even if it was wrong. The coaches spent the entire summer wanting Carr to roll out and relieve pressure on the offensive line. It was by plan and now they have deviated from what they practiced all summer. Do you wonder why he is confused. That is what you are suppose to do when you employ the zone blocking scheme. It requires a more mobile QB to avoid the pressure from the defensive team's line.

Bubbajwp
09-18-2005, 06:57 PM
Well that's the problem with reading off someones statistics and trying to describe their game from that. Anywhere in those numbers do they list the number of times Carr scrambled out of a pocket that was holding instead of stepping up into it? Does it include his penalty for intentional grounding? More important than that does it take into account that he's been getting those penalties for three years now and still doesn't know better than to do it? Does it take into account the fact that he doesn't understand the concept of a "tackle box"?

Carr's stats were shown on the big screen during the game and I did a double take. My first thought was "He looks like he's having a pretty good day". Then I thought about it and I decided that Palmer was calling a very safe game for Carr today.
What do you expect a QB to do when he has an average of two seconds to do somthing with the ball. He's going to make some mistakes.
I was just watching espn and they showed polamalu run right past our oline 3 times and none of those were his three sacks. I will agree that there were some play's were Carr had a decent pocket and still ran. Expescially on the play were carr fumbled. But our oline doesnt give him a good pocket frequently enough.

Bubbajwp
09-18-2005, 06:59 PM
I also want to mention that the only time we moved the ball in this game was when we spread the defense and threw the ball.

thegr8fan
09-18-2005, 07:10 PM
Herv, you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make them drink. You can actually watch and critique Carr and SEE all his faults, but you can't make the Carr Homer's believe it.

Nice to see though that a few of the 'die-hard' fans can actually start to see where a VERY BIG part of the problem with our offense actually lies, with Carr. Does that mean the O-line doesn't have problems? Certainly NOT. But when you got a QB who is running from the pocket that they actually form for him, what is the use of forming one to begin with. When your RB push's his rusher upfield and out around the corner, simply to have Carr run right into his arms, what is the use.

Carr, for whatever reason, simply isn't starting quality QB for ANY team at this time. Why is he playing so bad? Well, anyone figure THAT one out and you get the million dollar prize. But for whatever reason, Carr is NOT playing well, or even what most consider Good at this time. And I mean that on a personal QB critique level, so all you "the O-line won't block and makes him run" smucks can hammer away at this reply all you want. But Carr himself, simply stinks at the QB position, PERIOD, IMHO.

Bubbajwp
09-18-2005, 07:41 PM
Herv, you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make them drink. You can actually watch and critique Carr and SEE all his faults, but you can't make the Carr Homer's believe it.

Nice to see though that a few of the 'die-hard' fans can actually start to see where a VERY BIG part of the problem with our offense actually lies, with Carr. Does that mean the O-line doesn't have problems? Certainly NOT. But when you got a QB who is running from the pocket that they actually form for him, what is the use of forming one to begin with. When your RB push's his rusher upfield and out around the corner, simply to have Carr run right into his arms, what is the use.

Carr, for whatever reason, simply isn't starting quality QB for ANY team at this time. Why is he playing so bad? Well, anyone figure THAT one out and you get the million dollar prize. But for whatever reason, Carr is NOT playing well, or even what most consider Good at this time. And I mean that on a personal QB critique level, so all you "the O-line won't block and makes him run" smucks can hammer away at this reply all you want. But Carr himself, simply stinks at the QB position, PERIOD, IMHO.
Maybe Carr is thinking the same thing. Hey I already know that my oline isnt going to block anybody so what the he!! ill just run straight into the defender. At least this way he gets to pick wich defender hits him.

Texan Gal 312
09-18-2005, 08:31 PM
I guess I must have been watching a different game from my seat in 634. I tried to focus on the receivers today. Many times we protected with 7 and ran 3 reciever routes. Pittsburgh rushed 4 and covered with 7. Even rushing four they always had instant pressure. It seemed at least 3 of the four lineman would have their offensive guys backed into David's face. With 7 blocking four, the qb should be in a rocking chair and be able to step up into the pocket. It just doesn't happen with the Texans.
I saw David throw one bad pass. He had Johnson open early on a comeback route and held on a little too long and threw high. Most of his other incompletions besides the drops were thrown away because nobody was open. Is this the receivers fault ? not really they have 7 guys covering.
And then when Pittsburgh did blitz, Carr had about a nano second before running for his life.
A good offense line can make an average QB all-pro. A bad offense line can make an all-pro qb look very bad.

And right now Carr is not our problem. Our defense is a disaster.

DefLord
09-18-2005, 08:35 PM
Yes DROb was chewing out Buchanon - Buchanon let Walker walk into the endzone. Buchanon had a chance to stop him instead he stepped out ofthe way! And they showed a video of DROB slamming his helmet in front of Buchanon on the ground chewing him out! That is what I expect from someone like DROB who takes his job seriously and expects others to do the same!

AlexVanderpool
09-18-2005, 09:28 PM
Herv you and I disagree on a number of issues, but Carr never does call his own plays except for audibles. I think Capers and Palmer, and more likely Capers, micromanages this team into oblivion. While I'm not going to disagree with you in the way of what you are seeing performance wise, I think it is impossible to perform on this team because the coaches will criticize you for not doing what they actually told you to do even if it was wrong. The coaches spent the entire summer wanting Carr to roll out and relieve pressure on the offensive line. It was by plan and now they have deviated from what they practiced all summer. Do you wonder why he is confused. That is what you are suppose to do when you employ the zone blocking scheme. It requires a more mobile QB to avoid the pressure from the defensive team's line.

excellent point.

dat_boy_yec
09-18-2005, 09:31 PM
i dont get how u can blame the sacks on Carr the line is supposed to b like a wall, not letting the defense in. it makes it harder to focus on receivers when u also have to focus on the defense leaking into the backfield. u bash on Carr but he does his job to the best of his abilities. also playin the #1 and 2 defenses 2 straight games doesnt help the situation. i think the texans improved alot from last week and the fact that we didnt get stomped on like the titans this week made me feel ok sort of. i think its motivation that some players on the team lack (buchanon comes to mind) if all the players on the team took their roles as serious as players like d-rob then we would stomp teams. i think that the difference in motivation adds to internal conflict w/in the team because those who lay it all out on the field cant b happy with those who half ***.

HJam72
09-18-2005, 09:39 PM
I've never been more proud of D-Rob than I was today when he was chewing out Buchannon and throwing his helmet down on the sidelines. Buchannon just decided it wasn't worth it to hit that RB. Sad. I must say that I really don't like Buchannon. He has physical skills, but I don't like him as a player. He shouldn't have been brought here.

WWJD
09-18-2005, 09:43 PM
"Showtime" plays like "Primetime" when it comes to tackling.

Neither one do that very well.

But Deion sure can cover! Or could!

texan279
09-18-2005, 09:45 PM
i dont get how u can blame the sacks on Carr the line is supposed to b like a wall, not letting the defense in.

I'll blame him all day when he runs out of bounds 3 yards behind the LOS when he could have thrown the ball away...

CajunTexan
09-18-2005, 10:08 PM
If Carr had thrown the ball away every time he was outside the tackle box, he would have been 16-46. I agree that the rollouts are partially by design. Lopez, McClain and Justice seem to still believe in Carr, although we all know he has his downside. I just can not believe the number of "fans" that put this all on him.

This revamped defense sucks!!!!

Goldeagle
09-18-2005, 10:10 PM
It shows leadership, I am glad he is yelling at them. The guy keeps it internal and does not bash them publicly and that still shows respect.

The Bald Guy
09-18-2005, 10:49 PM
What about the half dozen delay of games.

Erratic Assassin
09-18-2005, 11:12 PM
I also heard that DRob chewed out Buchanon

They showed it on TV. Dunta threw his helmet and was screaming his butt off at him.

texanstuckinohio
09-18-2005, 11:22 PM
This post made me think... could it be possible that management is attempting to inflate carr's numbers in order to get rid of him in the not so distant future? Do whatever it takes as long as the numbers are there sort of thing? I know its a stupid idea, just a thought that came to me at 12:30 in the morning. Nite all.

Well that's the problem with reading off someones statistics and trying to describe their game from that. Anywhere in those numbers do they list the number of times Carr scrambled out of a pocket that was holding instead of stepping up into it? Does it include his penalty for intentional grounding? More important than that does it take into account that he's been getting those penalties for three years now and still doesn't know better than to do it? Does it take into account the fact that he doesn't understand the concept of a "tackle box"?

Carr's stats were shown on the big screen during the game and I did a double take. My first thought was "He looks like he's having a pretty good day". Then I thought about it and I decided that Palmer was calling a very safe game for Carr today.

royce1054
09-18-2005, 11:25 PM
I'll blame him all day when he runs out of bounds 3 yards behind the LOS when he could have thrown the ball away...


AGREE!!!! this is horrible :crying:

scourge
09-19-2005, 12:21 AM
For the past 3 seasons i've tried to defend Capers, Casserly, and Carr. But this team is falling apart and seems to be just going through the motions. Watching them play during preseason I started to come to my senses.

I believe Carr would've been something great in the right situation, but he truly is damaged goods now. It all started with that first season. I said it in 2002 and I'll say it again, they never should've kept him in there all season long to take that kind of beating.

Capers should be fired. Maybe we use him as a defensive coach, but as a head coach I can't stand much about him anymore. His playcalling is atrocious. My cat could make better decisions on whether to run or pass by going to the water bowl for a run, food bowl for a pass.

And after seeing Buchanon "play" for over a month I want Casserly gone too. I had given him the benefit of the doubt when he picked Carr over Peppers. I yelled at the TV when we took Gaffney and Pitts with Portis still on the board.(and yes, I know with our line he wouldnt have survived either but I still thought he was gonna be good) And then year after year very little change in the o-line, but maybe he knew something I didnt about who we already had. And again I tried to think positive when we traded to draft Babin. Then there was the Buchanon trade. That confused me, because at the time I figured we had over paid for a nickel back since I assumed we'd keep Glenn. Then Glenn was released and now we've found out that we may have seriously over paid. Then during the draft we could've drafted Jammal Brown, Thomas Davis, and Derrick Johnson, but instead trade down to get a back up defensive lineman who wasnt all that spectacular in college. I would've been happy to see Pollack, Clayton, Spears, or ever Matt Jones with that pick. Then again, if we hadnt traded the 2nd and 3rd for P-Buch, we couldve used those picks to pair up with our first and trade up for Rolle. Which would most likely still leave us with Aaron Glenn. Casserly has lost any faith I had in him.

IMO the team needs to at the very least fire Capers at the end of the season, if not sooner. Hopefully Casserly gets the boot too. Maybe with the right staff David Carr is still salvageable, but Im starting to wonder. I think benching him for a while may help. Let Ragone see if the preseason was a fluke. He can't do much worse.