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Corrosion
09-16-2005, 08:42 AM
I've stated a few times that I think Capers is more to blame for the offensive woes than is Palmer ... with Palmer being under his thumb so to speak , Its Capers' system .

Capers wants to establish the run first and work the play action off of it .

Palmer wants to open it up and pass to run.

Both have their points ... But what do the players have to say about it and how do their skills factor into this ?

A few quotes from todays Houston Chronicle (9-16)
http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/3356335

David Carr.

"We've got to be aggressive; we can attack when that's our mindset,"

"Chris has been saying that we can't be too passive and worry about making mistakes. We have to go after them."

"As an offense, we've got to be aggressive," Carr said. "We can't go back and resort to what we did our first couple of years when we were just trying not to lose."

Carr's final statement says a lot about Capers' system .
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Dom Capers

"We've got to be able to run," said Capers, his fists clenched tightly as he prepared to direct the mission. "It's not a secret. They want to attack. They want to get us on our heels. We know what we have to do."

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Andre Johnson

"Well, everyone has an opinion about it," he said. "I think we should probably spread it out more and make them cover us rather than trying to max protect and having them packed in where they can blitz.

"If we spread it out and attack them, I think it would open it up a little more."

"I really don't think just because you start running the ball that it's going to open up the passing game," Johnson said. "I think you can start off throwing, and it'll open up the running game. I guess they feel the run opens up the pass."


Johnsons first quote sums up the Texans problems in a nut shell ... They need to dictate what the defense does not the other way around .
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And here lies the problem .... The Players DONT BUY the system .... The players dont FIT the system .... Neither does the Offensive Coordinator . Until they get this fundamental difference worked out the offense will continue to look anemic . :bomb:

Texan Gal 312
09-16-2005, 09:20 AM
It seems to me Palmer, Carr and Johnson all want to do the same thing. Spread it out and throw the ball a little more.

Capers and PENDRY want to max protect with one and two receiver routes. It doesn't seem to be working very well. Even when we max protect we still get pressure from 5 rushers and they still have 6 guys left to cover two routes. The math makes it easy to understand why the receivers aren't "stepping up". Quick slants aren't going to work in this scenario either, there is just too much traffic. With max protect you should see absolutely NO PRESSURE when the other team rushes 5 or even 6 guys. Receivers have to have time (lots of it ) to get open.

Instead of calling for Palmer to be fired we should be calling for Capers and Pendry to let Palmer run the offense without the shackles. And for all those calling for Palmer to be fired, we are going to get Pendry as OC. Will this be what we want ?

BigBull17
09-16-2005, 11:43 AM
I think if your OC, thre QB and your stud WR all feel the same about your O, as a head coach you need to let them run with it. The problem Capers has is hes way to prideful to admit hes wrong.

Crank_It_Up
09-16-2005, 12:23 PM
Capers wants to establish the run first and work the play action off of it .
correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the play action takes more time than our O-line can give Carr

Until Capers can realize his O-line is too anemic to run consistently or protect long enough to use play action, he/we are destined to failure.

Marcus
09-16-2005, 12:49 PM
I know this would never happen, as neither neither Capers or Palmer would stand for it . . .

Let Carr call the plays. This is his 4th year, and supposedly a bright kid. He should have basic understanding of the playbook by now. At least try it for one game . . and see what happens . . idonno:

Might not make a difference, but the conversations inside the huddle would be more interesting, I would think.

Tayton
09-16-2005, 12:52 PM
There is no way we are going to be able to run on Pittsburgh. I usually don't like to make predictions, but if they start the game with run, run, incomplete pass, I'll go out on a limb and say they will be booed out of the stadium. I was hoping that the debacle in Buffalo would force game plan changes. It appears not.

Corrosion
09-16-2005, 12:57 PM
correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the play action takes more time than our O-line can give Carr

Until Capers can realize his O-line is too anemic to run consistently or protect long enough to use play action, he/we are destined to failure.


Play action is used to get the LB's to "play the run" ... The idea is that the LB moves forward to twards the line of scrimage giving the recievers more space between the LB and defensive backs .... It can take some time to develop as the recievers have to get in-between the LB's and DB's . And unless the LB's drop back into coverage .... You better get rid of the ball in a hurry .

A good TE can make play action that much more effective , something this team lacks. :goodnight

Crank_It_Up
09-16-2005, 12:58 PM
There is no way we are going to be able to run on Pittsburgh. I usually don't like to make predictions, but if they start the game with run, run, incomplete pass, I'll go out on a limb and say they will be booed out of the stadium. I was hoping that the debacle in Buffalo would force game plan changes. It appears not.yep 3 and out, get used to it till halfway through the 4th quarter when we're behind by a couple touchdowns... that capers, he's just so clever :)

PapaL
09-16-2005, 01:08 PM
Come on, how are you going to give away our strategy 2 days before the game? In all seriousness, running to open the pass is a great idea; if you can consistently run it. If not, then you pass to open up the run. We have to be able to do one well and let that cover up the deficiencies of the other.

aj.
09-16-2005, 01:11 PM
There is no way we are going to be able to run on Pittsburgh. I usually don't like to make predictions, but if they start the game with run, run, incomplete pass, I'll go out on a limb and say they will be booed out of the stadium. I was hoping that the debacle in Buffalo would force game plan changes. It appears not.

Quick, how often have the Texans gone 3 and out on their opening drive with a run, run, pass play sequence?

Happens all the time, right?

The answer is that it's happened only once in the last 17 games - last year, Week 14 against Indy. And the pass was intercepted so it wasn't even a classic run, run, pass, punt 3 and out.

Run, run, pass is the chic anti-Palmer sentiment but it's more myth than fact and only shows that people aren't watching close enough. All that's remembered are the failures, especially if it's a run. And yes, they will get booed out of the stadium because it's the prevailing perception. Making plays, whether it's run or pass is what I'd like to see them start doing. They could pull a Pittsburgh and run it 50 times a game and pass only 10 and I could live with it, if they win.

wrestler4life
09-16-2005, 01:13 PM
Play action is used to get the LB's to "play the run" ... The idea is that the LB moves forward to twards the line of scrimage giving the recievers more space between the LB and defensive backs .... It can take some time to develop as the recievers have to get in-between the LB's and DB's . And unless the LB's drop back into coverage .... You better get rid of the ball in a hurry .

A good TE can make play action that much more effective , something this team lacks. :goodnight

The problem is that we are running play action trying to get the LB's to bite when they were already blitzing. It is really just poor play calling. We have to find a way to make them stop blitzing. If we can't do that, then they will just blitz every down, and we will be bale to do nothing to stop them. (writing that just made me realy depressed!) :brickwall

El Tejano
09-16-2005, 01:24 PM
Great post. When I heard these quotes I had the same thoughts. A while back I mentioned that our offense seems to always look too crowded as to where other teams just seem to make plays because they have alot of plays to do so.

I would like to refer back to the Minnesota game last year. We spread the field out more and scored probably the most points we've ever scored offensively. Sure it was only Minnesota but our line was able to handle it and Carr found more open people. The only joke at that time was when Palmer called a sweep like on 3rd and 5.

Who knows maybe we open it up this week.

PapaL
09-16-2005, 01:29 PM
Yeah I like to think back to Minn. game also. Great times back them. Good ol'fun ball. As was mentioned, does seem like we crowd together to much.

Quick - How many times do we throw the quick pass to AJ this week?

Crank_It_Up
09-16-2005, 02:00 PM
The problem is that we are running play action trying to get the LB's to bite when they were already blitzing. It is really just poor play calling. We have to find a way to make them stop blitzing. If we can't do that, then they will just blitz every down, and we will be bale to do nothing to stop them. (writing that just made me realy depressed!) :brickwallso how to punish them for blitzing?

the shotgun is meant to give the quarterback more time, but 5 yards behind the o-line is just not near enough time against a no contact blitz.... 10 or 12 yards would be much more effective imho.

Texans Horror
09-16-2005, 02:23 PM
I would love to see Andre come across the middle. Carr drops it to AJ not five or ten yards in front. With his size and explosiveness, force the Steelers to catch him. Just had to get that out.

Texans Horror
09-16-2005, 02:28 PM
I would love to see Andre come across the middle. Carr drops it to AJ not five or ten yards in front. With his size and explosiveness, force the Steelers to catch him. Just had to get that out.

I know this was a bit off-topic. I just had to get it off my chest. I do think that we are a three or five or six-headed hydra trying to do everything at once. Lots of great ideas, but no communication between the heads.

Crank_It_Up
09-16-2005, 02:37 PM
if I was a linebacker, nothing would make my day more than AJ coming across the middle with his eyes off of me and looking at Carr :)

PapaL
09-16-2005, 04:08 PM
I would love to see Andre come across the middle. Carr drops it to AJ not five or ten yards in front. With his size and explosiveness, force the Steelers to catch him. Just had to get that out.

Anyone else remember the last time this play was run on a touchdown attempt? AJ wide open, Carr throws a bullet - bounces off AJ.

infantrycak
09-16-2005, 05:17 PM
Anyone else remember the last time this play was run on a touchdown attempt? AJ wide open, Carr throws a bullet - bounces off AJ.

It was the Jets game. The only reason they were in a realistic position to win the game was JJ had ripped off a 70 yd return--of course half the folks around here concluded the return was a clear indication he needed to be replaced. In any event, the play was designed for Carr to have held onto the ball longer, which was why AJ wasn't looking for the ball, but Carr saw Billy Miller in the end-zone and was throwing to him, not AJ.

Buzz
09-16-2005, 07:37 PM
Instead of calling for Palmer to be fired we should be calling for Capers and Pendry to let Palmer run the offense without the shackles.

I agree. Capers has proven it's difficult for him to do what he wants. If he goes with what Palmer wants to do, and just tweaks things a bit, I think it would work out a lot better seeing as how the players seem to support Palmer a lot more than they do Capers.

Fiddy
09-17-2005, 11:52 AM
If your pro bowl WR is telling you that the team needs to spread out the offense because it will help him, then you do spread out the offense...

Corrosion
09-18-2005, 01:49 AM
The Majority of us on this board have been bashing Palmer relentlessly for the past couple of seasons ...Its highly likely we have been barking up the wrong tree . Its easy for us to point at Palmer when he holds the title of OC but we have to remember that he is under the thumb of Capers .... Just makes him a scapegoat .

Capers should be held accountable .....

texan279
09-18-2005, 02:15 AM
The Majority of us on this board have been bashing Palmer relentlessly for the past couple of seasons ...Its highly likely we have been barking up the wrong tree . Its easy for us to point at Palmer when he holds the title of OC but we have to remember that he is under the thumb of Capers .... Just makes him a scapegoat .

Right. Capers is a defensive minded coach who wants to run a smashmouth run the football down your throat offense and we do not have the players to do it...

Tayton
09-18-2005, 08:00 PM
Sorry AJ you ripped me on my Run, Run, Pass. I should have known it would have been Run, Run, Carr Fumble to start the game.