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HardKnockTexan
09-13-2005, 11:29 PM
If you were the Texans GM who would you of drafted??
instead of Carr, Gaffney, Andre Johnson, Chester Pitts, Dominick Davis, Andre Johnson, Jason Babin, Dunta Robinson, Travis Johnson, Vernand Morency and any other pick that you think may be debateable??

HJam72
09-13-2005, 11:35 PM
If you were the Texans GM who would you of drafted??
instead of Carr, Gaffney, Andre Johnson, Chester Pitts, Dominick Davis, Andre Johnson, Jason Babin, Dunta Robinson, Travis Johnson, Vernand Morency and any other pick that you think may be debateable??

The Pepsi machine and the Burger King dude. :ok:

Oh, and Mrs. McNabb. Might also throw in Big Bird and the Cookie Monster might be a good SS.

texan279
09-13-2005, 11:50 PM
Cannot really debate this, hindsight is 20/20...

HardKnockTexan
09-13-2005, 11:55 PM
Big Bird?? are you kidding me? his legs are like twigs! But the Burger King highstepd like Deion! but seriously... the Burger King isnt real... so i guess i'd go with Pepsi Machine

HJam72
09-14-2005, 12:00 AM
I was thinking about the tazmanian devil for ILB.

Hervoyel
09-14-2005, 12:02 AM
Exactly, it's not really something that you can debate.

Looking at what we've done right now I can't say I wouldn't have drafted Joppru for instance because we needed a TE and he was a good one.

Two things I can say for certain are that I would not have taken Dave Ragone with the pick they used on him. To this day I don't think we needed another young QB that badly yet. I also would have taken Derrick Johnson when he fell to us instead of trading down for TJ. I think that was just a flat out no brainer and has a good chance of coming back to haunt us later on. I'll hate watching him go to Pro Bowls if TJ doesn't develop the way the team thinks he can.

The only other thing I can say I probably would have done differently was the Jason Babin trade. I don't think I would have given up those picks to get him. I know hindsight is 20/20 and the jury is very much still out on Babin (who's doing good). I'm just saying I don't think I would have traded that much to get him. The price seemed steep to me at the time.

I'd like to say I wouldn't have given a 2 for Tony Hollings but I don't honestly know if I would have or not. At the time I was pretty excited about the possibilities and we needed a running back. That was a calculated risk but 2's were too valuable IMO to be risking that soon in the franchises life. Tough call.

aggieNzona
09-14-2005, 12:14 AM
The last two I think the best grade I saw was a C.
They have baffeled the "experts" each day 1.
While hindsite is 20/20 nobody thought the Texans nailed it either.
It didn't matter if one talked need or BAA most were not impressed with the Texans last 2 drafts. :goodnight

HardKnockTexan
09-14-2005, 12:44 AM
Trading down this year seemed just flat out crazy to me... especially when we were in dire need of LB's. I remember being so pumped about Derrick Johnson still being on the board when it was our pick.. and so dumbfounded when i saw we traded down.
Every year I was wanting someone besides the player we got, except for David Carr because everyone knew he was the pick before the draft.
In year two i was really hoping for McGahee, and then he went down. Then I wanted to see us get Charles Rogers... we ended up with Andre Johnson. After that happend I started having a lot of faith in Casserly because Rogers got hurt and Johnson was and is an absolute beast.
In year 3 I was really pulling for trading up and going after Sean Taylor, and if not Taylor get DeAngelo Hall. We ended up with Dunta Robinson and as we all know, he too is an amazing pick. This added to my faith in the front office.
The Travis Johnson pick is too early to call, but I really REALLY thought that Derrick Johnson would be sporting a Texans uni.
The later rounds are hit and miss. After Dominick Davis did what he did I was REALLY glad we didnt get McGahee. Pitts still hasnt shown me he's the man all the Houston sports talk people say he is. Glen Earl was solid and C.C. Brown seems to be pulling his own. I also like the Gaffney pick. I think on an established team he would shine.

jacquescas
09-14-2005, 12:47 AM
you know at this point the only thing i'm upset with is this year. at this point they knew the line was horrendous and they did nothing. Jamal Brown, Alex Barron, Khalif Barnes, Bass, Elton Brown there were some decent options at linemen

outofhnd
09-14-2005, 12:54 AM
If I was GM, forget about draft! I would fire Chris Palmer and hire a new Offensive Coordinator. This offense has had three years to develop and protection has not been addressed, I would see Wand could be moved to RG to replace Wiegart. Or put Weary in the starting role and see how he handles it. Palmer could stay on as a QB coach and help Carr with his development. Draft wise the only thing I wish we wouldve done differently is draft Clinton Portis in the second round instead of Gaffney.

infantrycak
09-14-2005, 10:24 AM
The last two I think the best grade I saw was a C.
They have baffeled the "experts" each day 1.
While hindsite is 20/20 nobody thought the Texans nailed it either.
It didn't matter if one talked need or BAA most were not impressed with the Texans last 2 drafts. :goodnight

You didn't look very hard. The first one I went to:

2005 B+ (http://www.gbnreport.com/2005draftgrades.htm)
2004 A after 1 year (http://www.gbnreport.com/2004draftgrades.htm)

Not saying everyone graded them that high. IMO we are just now getting to the point where we can really judge the 2002 draft.

ArlingtonTexan
09-14-2005, 10:44 AM
I don't have time to break it down, but overall I find that the Texans are conservative in every area except player acquisition. The Hollings, Babin and Buchannon moves were all swings for homeruns instead of letting the draft come to them and taking solid quality players.

Kaiser Toro
09-14-2005, 10:59 AM
If I were GM and I would mandate a team builder based around trust for our Offense.

I know it is a hokey activity, but all ideas should be in play.

utahmark
09-14-2005, 11:12 AM
If I was GM, forget about draft! I would fire Chris Palmer and hire a new Offensive Coordinator. This offense has had three years to develop and protection has not been addressed, I would see Wand could be moved to RG to replace Wiegart. Or put Weary in the starting role and see how he handles it. Palmer could stay on as a QB coach and help Carr with his development. Draft wise the only thing I wish we wouldve done differently is draft Clinton Portis in the second round instead of Gaffney.


sry but i dont agree with much of what you said. wand had a taste of rg and he looked horrible. weary is closer to being cut than starting. i doubt if palmer would except a job as qb coach. and nobody wanted portis untill after the fact. and even if we would of drafted portis he wouldnt of done any better than davis. maybe we draft portis then denver gets davis. portis gets killed behind our o-line and davis runs for 1800 yards with denver. then you guys are wondering why we didnt draft davis.

Exascor
09-14-2005, 11:57 AM
I don't think you can go past the first round in a discussion like this because everything changes if you change your pick. I'll go 2 rounds just for fun though.

Here's my 1st and 2nd round picks:

2002 David Carr & Jabar Gaffney
Carr seemed like a solid QB with potential to be great. Gaffney was graded as a 1st round pick and I was excited to see we landed him.
HINDSIGHT: I think you need to establish your team as an expansion franchise BEFORE drafting a QB to be your future. Banks or another mediocre QB should have been at the helm for the first 2 seasons at least.

2003 Andre Johnson & EJ Henderson
I would have rathered Charles Rogers but he was already picked and AJ seemed like a stud without Rogers' soft hands. EJ seemed like he'd be a great ILB.
HINDSIGHT: AJ is better than Rogers so I'd have been lucky. I wouldn't have been looking for a TE but if I would have been, I liked Witten better than Dallas Clark or Joppru.

2004 Tommie Harris, Teddy Lehman & Randy Starks
We had bad problems with the D-line in 03. Harris may not have been the perfect DE for the 3-4 but he was a playmaker. Lehman would have been in place of the Hollings pick. Yes-I would have tried to get Hollings but felt a 3 (much less a 2) was risky for an injured player with 4 games under his belt. Starks was projected as a 1st rounder and played in the 3-4. To me-it would seem to be a great pick up with our 2nd round pick. No way would I have traded 3 picks for Babin. May turn out to be a steal but I wouldn't have done it.
HINDSIGHT: Starks hasn't shown anything yet but may have fit in better here in the 3-4. Lehman may not have fit in the 3-4 either but I don't believe you have to get cookie cutter players for a system. Playmakers always should take priority. He may have been a bust. I would have missed out on Dunta.

2005 Derrick Johnson & Terrence Murphy
I was absolutely shocked that we traded down with DJ on the board. TJ wouldn't have been on my radar since I would have attempted to address the d-line in previous seasons. Murphy would be my pick in the 2nd but I would have done everything I could to trade out of this round.
HINDSIGHT: Not really any yet.

Overall my thoughts on building a team are defense before offense and secure the lines first. I wouldn't have picked an o-lineman in the 1st 2 rounds unless I traded for more picks. That's not to say I NEVER would but given where our picks were the o-line would have been reaches IMO. Sharper would have been gone after 2003. I was never high on him and he had value at that time. Most veterans with value would have been traded if possible to be honest. I would have drafted interior o-linemen in rounds 3-4 whenever they were value picks. I'm sure my o-line would have been just as bad as ours but it wouldn't be Carr getting killed.

I'm sure that our drafts would have been better and I sure could have lied and made the "correct" picks instead of what I felt would be right at the time of the drafts.

RocCityJag
09-14-2005, 12:03 PM
who is the texans GM?

PapaL
09-14-2005, 12:20 PM
who is the texans GM?

Are you kidding?

RocCityJag
09-14-2005, 12:31 PM
Are you kidding?


NO i dont like the texans how would I know? :bomb:

infantrycak
09-14-2005, 12:54 PM
NO i dont like the texans how would I know? :bomb:

Why would anyone around here want to help out a self-avowed anti-Texan? It's out there on the web, let your fingers do the typing.

bckey
09-14-2005, 12:58 PM
2002
1-Julius Peppers DE
2-Toniu Fonoti G
2B-Clinton Portis RB

2003
1-Jordan Gross OT
2-E J Henderson
2B-Ken Hamlin DB

2004
1-Any of the 4 QBs-Manning, Rivers, Roethlisburger, or Losman
2-Jake Grove C

2005
1-Derrick Johnson LB
2-Justin Miller DB

rmartin65
09-14-2005, 01:01 PM
If you were the Texans GM who would you of drafted??
instead of Carr, Gaffney, Andre Johnson, Chester Pitts, Dominick Davis, Andre Johnson, Jason Babin, Dunta Robinson, Travis Johnson, Vernand Morency and any other pick that you think may be debateable??
i think you have AJ twice.

Rob Base
09-14-2005, 01:13 PM
Definitely, defense first with a veteran QB. A defense can score you points first. It seemed like they gave Carr the keys to the city before he proved anything.

Sarg01
09-15-2005, 12:49 PM
If you were the Texans GM who would you of drafted??
instead of Carr, Gaffney, Andre Johnson, Chester Pitts, Dominick Davis, Andre Johnson, Jason Babin, Dunta Robinson, Travis Johnson, Vernand Morency and any other pick that you think may be debateable??

'02
David Carr
Hard to say about second round '02. I know Portis was available, but honestly it probably wouldn't have been him.
Pitts wasn't a bad pick.

'03
Andre Johnson (would have been McGahee until he busted his knee in that bowl game)
Hard to argue with Dom Davis in the 4th round.

'04
Dunta Robinson (had two players ahead of him on board and both were gone by #10)
Wouldn't have made the Babin trade, though I don't really have a problem with it. Would probably have taken Antwan Odom in the 2nd to play the same spot.

'05
LB Derrick Johnson
No Buchanon trade (possible because wouldn't have let Glenn go for less than a 2nd, which we wouldn't get)
CB Justin Miller in 2nd (Robinson-Glenn-Miller-Faggins-Coleman-Earl for the dime secondary - are you kidding me?)
DE (OLB for us) Justin Tuck in 3rd at 73 (I had him graded 2nd round)
RB Morency in 3rd at 78 (I made this pick for the Texans in a GM mock draft at one point)

Bubbajwp
09-15-2005, 04:49 PM
I would have used a 4-3 defense mainly because of Julius Peppers

'02
Rd 1 - DE Julius Peppers
Rd 2 - LG Toniu Fonoti
Rd 2 - RG Chester Pitts

'03
Rd 1 - WR Andre Johnson (like most people I wanted Willis McGahee until his injury)
Rd 2 - FS Ken Hamlin

'04
Rd 1 - CB Dunta Robinson (I cant lie I wanted Sean Taylor and DeAngelo Hall more but both were gone)
Rd 1 - WR Michael Jenkins

'05
Rd 1 - OLB Derrick Johnson
Trade for Pbuch

'06
Rd 1 - Hopfully AJ Hawk OLB if not him then a top ranked LT or QB
Four years is not enough to build a team around the draft

Exascor
09-15-2005, 05:03 PM
Four years is not enough to build a team around the draftThank you. Fans keep bringing up the amount of players we've drafted that are on the roster as a negative. I think someone should research the amount of players other teams have that they drafted from the same timeframe on their rosters. It's not like we could have an 8 year veteran that we drafted still on the roster. :confused:

Goldeagle
09-15-2005, 09:35 PM
Carr (still)
Jordan Gross (over Andre Johnson)
David Pollack (over Johnston)
Mike Jenkins (over Jason Babin)
Anquon Boldin (over Joppru)
Clinton Portis/ Deshaun Foster (over Gaffney)



WHO CHARLIE DRAFTED AND I WAS LIKE "WTH!"

Andre Johnson: Not because he is not worthy, but why draft a WR when Jordan Gross was there and you had a RUN orient team first?

Dave Ragone:: a 3rd pick the next year after you drafted your franchise QB?? What a waste of a pick

Bennie Joppru:: You had Billy Miller and you draft this guy who no one knew much about? Injuries aside because you cannot predict those, but Miller was solid and you brought in Bruener so this pick was a waste.

Jason Babin:; Perhaps if we kept Foley and Posey there would have not been a need for this waste of a pick and we could have had Jenkins who looks good in Atlanta.

awtysst
09-15-2005, 10:10 PM
you know at this point the only thing i'm upset with is this year. at this point they knew the line was horrendous and they did nothing. Jamal Brown, Alex Barron, Khalif Barnes, Bass, Elton Brown there were some decent options at linemen

Alex Barron is not a true LT. Jamal Brown is a RT Tackle. Klafief Brown is not a first rounder. Bass was a second rounder and we would have had no chance getting him anyway. Elton Brown was cut.

awtysst
09-15-2005, 10:13 PM
I would have used a 4-3 defense mainly because of Julius Peppers

'02
Rd 1 - DE Julius Peppers
Rd 2 - LG Toniu Fonoti
Rd 2 - RG Chester Pitts

'03
Rd 1 - WR Andre Johnson (like most people I wanted Willis McGahee until his injury)
Rd 2 - FS Ken Hamlin

'04
Rd 1 - CB Dunta Robinson (I cant lie I wanted Sean Taylor and DeAngelo Hall more but both were gone)
Rd 1 - WR Michael Jenkins

'05
Rd 1 - OLB Derrick Johnson
Trade for Pbuch

'06
Rd 1 - Hopfully AJ Hawk OLB if not him then a top ranked LT or QB
Four years is not enough to build a team around the draft

Not a bad list, but who would have been the QB?
Also, AJ Hawk is likely going to be a high pick, so to get him we might need to be a pretty bad team and I have not given up on the season. This draft is pretty stocked of LTs. It might be possible to pick up Hawk with pick 1 and then a pretty good LT in the second round.

JustBonee
09-16-2005, 08:51 AM
Casserly just stated on the radio (610) that he never listens to the fans. He "doesn't have time" .. :tomato:

Bubbajwp
09-16-2005, 12:09 PM
Not a bad list, but who would have been the QB?
Also, AJ Hawk is likely going to be a high pick, so to get him we might need to be a pretty bad team and I have not given up on the season. This draft is pretty stocked of LTs. It might be possible to pick up Hawk with pick 1 and then a pretty good LT in the second round.
I didnt pick a QB yet because I would rather build a good team then pick a QB. I would probably pick a QB in 07.

Bubbajwp
09-16-2005, 12:33 PM
For all of the people who want the texans to draft a QB next year can you at least wait until 07. First off by then we will know for sure if carr is a bust or not. Also Chris Leak from florida and Marcus Vick will be available.

Honoring Earl 34
09-16-2005, 12:43 PM
:texflag: I'm beginning to think Carr can't throw on the run . I'm thinking the league knows this . To throw on the run the elbow has to be up ... try throwing like Carr running to the side you lose your arm strength .

Leak is lot like Drew Brees . He's not the biggest but he can play .

the wonger need food
09-16-2005, 01:17 PM
Thank you. Fans keep bringing up the amount of players we've drafted that are on the roster as a negative. I think someone should research the amount of players other teams have that they drafted from the same timeframe on their rosters. It's not like we could have an 8 year veteran that we drafted still on the roster. :confused:

Of the Steelers' 22 starters, 18 were drafted by them. 8 with four or less years of experience.

Of the Patriots' 22 starters, 16 were drafted by them. 12 with four or less years of experience.

By comparison the Texans have 9 draft picks who are starters with 4 or less years of experience.

The most telling of these stats is that both Pittsburgh and New England's offensive and defensive lines were almost exclusively picked by their teams and are very young. While the Texan's lines were built thru free agency and are both (arguably) overpaid and (inarguably) under-productive. This game is won in the trenches.

Another difference is that these team draft future Pro Bowl talent. The Texans' only bona fide, legitimate Pro Bowl type guys are Robinson and Dre... and Dre may never make another Pro Bowl in this offense.

Exascor
09-16-2005, 02:07 PM
Of the Steelers' 22 starters, 18 were drafted by them. 8 with four or less years of experience.

Of the Patriots' 22 starters, 16 were drafted by them. 12 with four or less years of experience.

By comparison the Texans have 9 draft picks who are starters with 4 or less years of experience.Thanks Wonger. That shows me that we are about normal in draft pick to starter ratio. That's not to say we are in either of those teams league atm, but still it can't be used as a negative stat IMO.

As for the o-line and d-line, I've stated before that I think that those should be built before anything else on the club. Seemed like CC tried to build a solid o-line the first year with the expansion draft and the Pitts and Weary picks the first season. It was, obviously, a failed attempt that we are still trying to recover from.

I also agree that AJ may be in for a trying time if we don't fix the offense. It's tough to make the Probowl with 50 catches and low yards. Dunta may never get the stats to make a Probowl either though. Until Buchanon makes a few INTs they'll just ignore his side IMO.

awtysst
09-17-2005, 04:45 PM
I didnt pick a QB yet because I would rather build a good team then pick a QB. I would probably pick a QB in 07.

Ok. But who would you have started at QB in 02. Would you have found an older FA or drafted a mid to late draft QB to just get by?

Kaiser Toro
09-17-2005, 10:22 PM
:texflag: I'm beginning to think Carr can't throw on the run . I'm thinking the league knows this . To throw on the run the elbow has to be up ... try throwing like Carr running to the side you lose your arm strength .

Leak is lot like Drew Brees . He's not the biggest but he can play .

I agree 100% on your take on Carr. He is a terrifc runner, but a horrible passer on the run.

Elite
09-17-2005, 10:34 PM
Now there's a smart man great picks i wish thats how we really would of drafted.



2002
1-Julius Peppers DE
2-Toniu Fonoti G
2B-Clinton Portis RB

2003
1-Jordan Gross OT
2-E J Henderson
2B-Ken Hamlin DB

2004
1-Any of the 4 QBs-Manning, Rivers, Roethlisburger, or Losman
2-Jake Grove C

2005
1-Derrick Johnson LB
2-Justin Miller DB

BCKEY Try sending and email to bob mcnair you would do a better job than the joke of a gm we have.

Bubbajwp
09-18-2005, 10:36 AM
Ok. But who would you have started at QB in 02. Would you have found an older FA or drafted a mid to late draft QB to just get by?
Both but i would have started the older FA for a year or two

Bubbajwp
09-18-2005, 10:37 AM
Now there's a smart man great picks i wish thats how we really would of drafted.



2002
1-Julius Peppers DE
2-Toniu Fonoti G
2B-Clinton Portis RB

2003
1-Jordan Gross OT
2-E J Henderson
2B-Ken Hamlin DB

2004
1-Any of the 4 QBs-Manning, Rivers, Roethlisburger, or Losman
2-Jake Grove C

2005
1-Derrick Johnson LB
2-Justin Miller DB

BCKEY Try sending and email to bob mcnair you would do a better job than the joke of a gm we have.
I like the list to but who would be our WR

mes311
09-18-2005, 11:49 AM
No way I would take Gross over AJ. And in 2002, the Texans thought they had a franchise LT in Boselli to protect a new QB. There were 3 OT taken in the first 10 picks that year: Mike Williams, Bryannt McKinnie, and Levi Jones. Knowing what we know now about Boselli, drafting an OT that year may have been better instead of a QB.

RocKetHtown
09-18-2005, 12:45 PM
If I was the GM I would fire myself :texflag:

bigfootrulz
09-18-2005, 12:47 PM
how about the gm firing dom and chrissy then firing himself :ok:

Elite
09-18-2005, 12:51 PM
I agree 100% on your take on Carr. He is a terrifc runner, but a horrible passer on the run.



he cant throw either way and thats why he will never amount to anything in this league.

Honoring Earl 34
09-18-2005, 12:56 PM
:brickwall I've been critical of Carr but I have to believe if you switched him and Big Ben the score would be the same .

If you switched Coaches we may be winning .

RocKetHtown
09-18-2005, 01:54 PM
we need Jack pardee