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View Full Version : I watched the game again last night and was surprised


Kaiser Toro
09-13-2005, 08:07 AM
Ok, I watched game all the plays in 30 minutes via DirecTV's Superfan package and did not realize how good we looked in places and how awful we were at a couple of positions. By the way, watched the Jags game and Matt Jones is going to be scary.

Firstly, The offensive line played very well on Sunday. I counted one sack allowed. The rest were Davis's, Murphy's and a receiver's (was out of the picture on the edge) fault. Run blocking good, pass blocking good. Bravo to the O Line.

Secondly, Greenwood and Wong needed to bring thier A game and they brought their mighty mite game. I do not doubt their physical capabilities nor their intelligence, but they were constanttly firing into the backs of our defenders or right into their blockers. There were not many times that these guys fired into the gap and had an opportunity to make a play. This needs to be watched more than anything as the season progresses for the 3-4 haters.

Thirdly, defensive line was not as bad as you think, they got pressure, thye made tackles, but had their share of some negative plays. They get a C- because they gave effort the whole game.

Peek and Babin, man if they can get consistent and not have bonehead plays we could be watching the start of something special. They both ran down thre RB s the play was going away from them, had some nice rushes. But yes the near miss by Peek and the offsides to be addressed. I think we will like what we get from these guys moving forward.

PBuch - Yes he gave up 5 catches, but nothing to go crazy over. Tackled much better than I thought he was capable of. I want to see him again, but I think we will like the results of this acquisition.

Dunta - All over the place, no fear. Get ready for people to start talking on ESPN about him.

CC Brown - Great quickness on the blitz. Good pick Cass.

DDavis - Better learn how to protect your QB or you may be on the bench.

Murphy - Scary how poor of a blocker this guy is. I never realized how glaring our problem is at TE.

At the leaves us with Carr and man was it worse than even I thought it could be. I started out counting how many seconds he had when he dropped back to pass. I conted around on average of 3 seconds, which I think is fair amount of time to go through a couple of reads and step into the pocket for your other progressions. What is happening is that David drops back and is locked on a receiver and one of three things happen - 1) he throws and it ain't pretty; 2) he takes off and runs; 3) he takes off an tries to create something. Only taking off and run is the good thing. The point here is that the guy has happy feet, plain and simple. If he would just step up into the pocket (and yes OLINE haters there were planty of pockets) and get anohter look, this may solve our problems.

I felt much better about the way we played, after the emotion was stripped away. Moreover, I believe Carr will watch this film and see what the hell happened. He can lead this team if he does a mea culpa, that is if he has not lost them already.

texan279
09-13-2005, 08:11 AM
Couldn't have said it better myself, awesome post... :texflag:

profan
09-13-2005, 08:36 AM
Good post, the party line on this board seems to blame the offensive line, when, in fact alot of the blame lies on CARR. This is his year to step up and show improvement. I hope the coaches realize we have two other qb's.

texan279
09-13-2005, 08:38 AM
Carson Palmer and Joey Harrington have stepped up this year...

Kaiser Toro
09-13-2005, 08:40 AM
To add to my long post here are the significant plays:

1st Half:
Davis missed block and a hold.
Receiver missed block, sack
Payne offsides
Payne defensive holding
Carr Rollout, horrible pass to AJ on a 15 yard out
Delay of the game on the Texans at the Bills 5

2nd Half:
David hold
Peek missed interception
Davis missed block, sack
Murphy missed block, sack
Carr interception by Vincent. Carr did not see Vincent at all.
Roughing the passer, on Simmons?
Murphy missed block
Carr runs but does not get first
Takeo causes fumble, Carr no vision and if he made one step up into pocket avoids Takeo.

Runner
09-13-2005, 08:47 AM
I've posted stuff like this last year about what people think happened in a game based on expectations rather than watching closely to see the actual plays themselves. I haven't rewatched this game that closely, so I don't even know if I agree with you or not - but good luck effecting anybody's opinion on anything.

Nice to see a post with some thought and effort put in it. Sadly, it probably won't garner near the discussion of a "fire everybody" thread though.

Runner
09-13-2005, 08:49 AM
To add to my long post here are the significant plays:

1st Half:
Davis missed block and a hold.
Received missed block, sack
Payne offsides
Payne defensive holding
Carr Rollout, horrible pass to AJ on a 15 yard out
Delay of the game on the Texans at the Bills 5

2nd Half:
David hold
Peek missed interception
Davis missed block, sack
Murphy missed block, sack
Carr interception by Vincent. Carr did not se Vincent at all.
Roughing the passer, on Simmons?
Murphy missed block
Carr runs but does not get first
Takeo causes fumble, Carr no vision and if he made one step up into pocket avoids Takeo.

I'd say the sack the o-line did give up on the third play of the game to force a punt was significant too. It kind of helped set the tone.

nunusguy
09-13-2005, 09:18 AM
the party line on this board seems to blame the offensive line, when, in fact alot of the blame lies on CARR.
I think the phrase you're looking for regarding the Carr vs OL issue is split vote rather than party line because there is a lot of people on both sides
of the issue. But whatever we call it I've been more critical of the OLine than Carr about Sundays game, but if DCs the primary problem hey, I say bench
him and go with one of the other 2 QBs. I'm interested in the team succeeding
far more than sheltering any single player from justified criticism. If we've got
someone who can play the position better (or do less damage thru mistakes),
put him in the game coach.

Texas_Thrill
09-13-2005, 09:20 AM
Well after 3 years of getting your brain bashed in week in and week out I expect the man to have a bit of happy feet.

aphia1996
09-13-2005, 09:20 AM
I understand that some of the blame is with Carr but he only has one reciever in A. Johnson and the line does have to give him more that 1.1 sec per pass play....everyone keeps saying he doesn't read the defense but you have to have time to read. The Pocket was never there for him to read or get a complete throw off to his recievers and then when he did get one off the reciever wasn't even looking and it hit him in the arm!

We need another WR, TE to give Carr options when he is out there..not just AJ and DD! Anyway, I don't think you can blame just one person but if you have time you will be able to make strong throws, read a defense and make the right call without having someone on your back....Carr has been crushed for three years and then again on sunday. It isn't just the RB or a WR missing blocks...It is the O~Line missing blocks. It is poor play calling and a lack of QB Coach...I don't understand that one, when you spend that much money on a player you don't have a Coach for him...Palmer is a poor coach and that is being nice. He may be more of a problem then the line, Carr, and everything that is wrong with our boys period!

GEAUX TEXANS,

James H.
Houston, Texas

Kaiser Toro
09-13-2005, 09:20 AM
I think the phrase you're looking for regarding the Carr vs OL issue is split vote rather than party line because there is a lot of people on both sides
of the issue. But whatever we call it I've been more critical of the OLine than Carr about Sundays game, but if DCs the primary problem hey, I say bench
him and go with one of the other 2 QBs. I'm interested in the team succeeding
far more than sheltering any single player from justified criticism. If we've got
someone who can play the position better (or do less damage thru mistakes),
put him in the game coach.

I have not a fan of Carr's contract, but I do not propose to bench him, especially after wtahcing the game again.

I do belive that he will be able to make mental adjustments after seeing that the line player pretty well. I have much more optimism after watching that game again. We committed many errors that are correctable.

HJam72
09-13-2005, 09:35 AM
OK, that's it. I'm watchin' the game again, painfull as that's gonna be. :crying:

Actually, I didn't tape the first half, but I'll watch what I've got. I wouldn't be against trying Banks or Ragone Sunday, anyway, just to see what happens, because, shoot, something has to change.

Oh, bye the way, FIRE DD!!! (just kidding)

Kaiser Toro
09-13-2005, 09:37 AM
I understand that some of the blame is with Carr but he only has one reciever in A. Johnson and the line does have to give him more that 1.1 sec per pass play....everyone keeps saying he doesn't read the defense but you have to have time to read. The Pocket was never there for him to read or get a complete throw off to his recievers and then when he did get one off the reciever wasn't even looking and it hit him in the arm!

We need another WR, TE to give Carr options when he is out there..not just AJ and DD! Anyway, I don't think you can blame just one person but if you have time you will be able to make strong throws, read a defense and make the right call without having someone on your back....Carr has been crushed for three years and then again on sunday. It isn't just the RB or a WR missing blocks...It is the O~Line missing blocks. It is poor play calling and a lack of QB Coach...I don't understand that one, when you spend that much money on a player you don't have a Coach for him...Palmer is a poor coach and that is being nice. He may be more of a problem then the line, Carr, and everything that is wrong with our boys period!

GEAUX TEXANS,

James H.
Houston, Texas

I respect your opinion, but please watch the game again.

SESupergenius
09-13-2005, 09:43 AM
I watched the 30 minute thing last night too, sure David has happy feat, what you are not telling is how the line is collapsing on almost every play. He doesn't have room to move and has no confidence in someone picking up the blitz. People complain about the offensive line, and yes that does include the RB and RB and whoever is in to block. Carr was hurried 8 times before the middle of the 3rd quarter. I can understand if you don't like Carr but please tell the whole picture. you didn't even mention Gaffney Goof.

Kaiser Toro
09-13-2005, 09:47 AM
I watched the 30 minute thing last night too, sure David has happy feat, what you are not telling is how the line is collapsing on almost every play. He doesn't have room to move and has no confidence in someone picking up the blitz. People complain about the offensive line, and yes that does include the RB and RB and whoever is in to block. Carr was hurried 8 times before the middle of the 3rd quarter. I can understand if you don't like Carr but please tell the whole picture. you didn't even mention Gaffney Goof.

Not quite sure how we can pin the goof on Gaffney as I did not hear the play call. How do we not know it was not Carr's fault. The play could have called for a throw 10 more yards down the field.

After watching the game, Carr was not on target the whole day. I am more likely to believe his decision making an accuracy were much more culpabale than Gaffney's play.

shinerbock_girl
09-13-2005, 10:10 AM
Good post, the party line on this board seems to blame the offensive line, when, in fact alot of the blame lies on CARR. This is his year to step up and show improvement. I hope the coaches realize we have two other qb's.

Well still considering our defense held them to only one TD as bad as we played, i think they did ok, on the defense end that is... And usually when Carr has such a bad game, he finds a way to turn things around on the next, along with Andre...Lets just hope this was first game jetters and its over with.....I still liked Swinston for punt return and i think it was a mistake to cut such a fast guy who did well in preseason.... :brickwall Face it the guy was hurddling over the Cowboys when he ran a 100 yd return...If we can't rely on size for this OL, we need speed....

LBC_Justin
09-13-2005, 10:31 AM
Just finished watching it again.

Carr was under a lot of pressure the whole game. The protection time he was given was UNACCEPTABLE. O-line, RB, TE, WR, all not that great of blocking. Carr does stare at his recievers, and his WR didn't play well. After watching this game we do need to give the Bills Defense some credit they played spectacular.

Losman didn't play as well as I thought he did. He threw into double coverage a few times and should have been picked off on more than one occasion.

5 turnovers - 0 takeaways. Even with how badly the Texans played,If you swap those two stats, the Texans probably win this game.

BTW DirecTV's Superfan package is great. The games in 30 minutes or less. I am going to watch Steelers game in about half an hour from now, after I see how Miami beat Denver. Football fan's dream.


:tv:

Scooter
09-13-2005, 10:39 AM
every pocket collapses. the difference with other teams though, is their qb is looking at the coverage and "feeling" the rush. carr's backwards. he looked to me atleast to have as much time as anyone else in the league to get off average passes. because we kept atleast 7 blocking on seemingly every play though, he only had one legit target (and additional rushers since there wasnt anyone to cover). we need to use our receivers and tell carr to start throwing the ball. interceptions dont hurt my feelings near as much as "hike, run scared, fall down" over & over.

for yall that can watch the game again ... was it my imagination or did we spend the entire first half in ace & eye formations (aside from a couple 3rd downs). i hope that's not the case because we have one of the weakest crews at TE (all around) & FB (passing) in the league.

Vinny
09-13-2005, 10:44 AM
Just finished watching it again.

Carr does stare at his recievers, and his WR didn't play well. How can you tell that? I'm in the middle of breaking down the game now (I'll spew my spewage a bit later) and I can't see the WR routes. Do you have another version of the game I don't have?

Nice thread KT. Gave you some rep power!

Runner
09-13-2005, 10:45 AM
This is not to suggest a QB change. I do know Ragone wasn't playing against first teamers (or with first teamers).

I thought Ragone had great pocket presence in the last pre-season game. He moved away from pressure and into safe spots without taking off in a complete run and while looking down field. I thought he had good command of the offense.

BREAZE
09-13-2005, 10:47 AM
When you rewind a train wreck and watch it again you see...a train wreck. This team was ill prepared...plain and simple. Carr has been on his rear since day one of this franchise. Pass protection was not a priority in the offseason. Combine that with the present coaching philosophy and the outcome should surprise nobody.

Teams are going to go blitz crazy against us now. Its going to get worse before it gets any better...

LBC_Justin
09-13-2005, 10:48 AM
every pocket collapses. the difference with other teams though, is their qb is looking at the coverage and "feeling" the rush. carr's backwards. he looked to me atleast to have as much time as anyone else in the league to get off average passes. because we kept atleast 7 blocking on seemingly every play though, he only had one legit target (and additional rushers since there wasnt anyone to cover). we need to use our receivers and tell carr to start throwing the ball. interceptions dont hurt my feelings near as much as "hike, run scared, fall down" over & over.

for yall that can watch the game again ... was it my imagination or did we spend the entire first half in ace & eye formations (aside from a couple 3rd downs). i hope that's not the case because we have one of the weakest crews at TE (all around) & FB (passing) in the league.
you must have been watching a different game than I was. Carr was under immense pressure the entire game, and his recievers were covered pretty tight. Credit to the Bills defense.

But your right Carr does need to step up his play. He has a lot of room for improvement to say the least.

BigBull17
09-13-2005, 10:48 AM
I dont like ints but i will defend the first one some what. I realy think he thought he had a free play and thats why he forced it. I didnt tape it and i dont have Dir TV but I think when he saw flags he though it was illegal contact. Just a thought. The one to Vincent in the end zone was poorly thrown but AJ has to go back to the ball.

SESupergenius
09-13-2005, 10:49 AM
Not quite sure how we can pin the goof on Gaffney as I did not hear the play call. How do we not know it was not Carr's fault. The play could have called for a throw 10 more yards down the field.Then that would be on Palmer as we do not have that much time for a play to develop and of course you would probably accuse Carr of "Locking" on his target.
I seriously doubt it, Gaffney had no clue on that play. In fact I think in Palmers system the WR are not required to adjust too much to the defense. I looked at other games this week and our WR just don't look like they are adjust to the game. Who's fault is that?
After watching the game, Carr was not on target the whole day. I am more likely to believe his decision making an accuracy were much more culpabale than Gaffney's play. Carr was more on target than you give him credit for. he nailed recievers on several occasions, you are just not giving him credit at all for any of those. I'm not saying Carr is not at fault, he did have several bonehead plays, but EVERYONE did. And with the immense pressure he was constantly on, I can't place the blame on him.

supertankman
09-13-2005, 10:54 AM
Just finished watching it again.
BTW DirecTV's Superfan package is great. The games in 30 minutes or less. I am going to watch Steelers game in about half an hour from now, after I see how Miami beat Denver. Football fan's dream.


:tv:

Sounds cool, i guess because its commercial free? I wonder if they have that on Time Warner?

Kaiser Toro
09-13-2005, 10:57 AM
Then that would be on Palmer as we do not have that much time for a play to develop and of course you would probably accuse Carr of "Locking" on his target.
I seriously doubt it, Gaffney had no clue on that play. In fact I think in Palmers system the WR are not required to adjust too much to the defense. I looked at other games this week and our WR just don't look like they are adjust to the game. Who's fault is that?
Carr was more on target than you give him credit for. he nailed recievers on several occasions, you are just not giving him credit at all for any of those. I'm not saying Carr is not at fault, he did have several bonehead plays, but EVERYONE did. And with the immense pressure he was constantly on, I can't place the blame on him.

Carr does lock on this targets, Troy Vincent an achieved NFL All-Pro and a suppossed character guy said it flat out. I would like Carr not to lock on his targets.

I am not saying it was not Gaffs fault, what I am saying is that we do not know. All I know is that Carr was off pretty much the whole day, when he had time, and Gaff missed most of the preseson.

Carr gets credit for nine completions. As far as the immense pressure is concerned, after Carr watches the tape he needs to exercise the demons that plague him, because he is creating the pressure by not stepping into the pocket.

HJam72
09-13-2005, 11:17 AM
OK, that's it. I'm watchin' the game again, painfull as that's gonna be. :crying:

Actually, I didn't tape the first half, but I'll watch what I've got. I wouldn't be against trying Banks or Ragone Sunday, anyway, just to see what happens, because, shoot, something has to change.

Oh, bye the way, FIRE DD!!! (just kidding)

OK, I'm back.
IMHO, which has just become more humble, these are the three main problems:

1) Corey Bradford. He's not open. He's never gonna be open. If Carr manages to split the D or somehow get the ball to Bradford, he will drop it. This guy's got to go.

2) DD. Sorry. He's gotta work on the pass protection. He was useless as a blocker. Maybe it's because he's used to being the dump-off guy. The corner blitz is killing Carr. Somebody's gotta pick it up.

3) Matt Murphy can't block. Looks like another Miller.

4) The O-line is not catching the delayed blitz by any LB. Sometimes they gang up on the DLs when it's not necessary and then miss the LB coming late. Other times, they just aren't staying home well enough, if that makes sense. The run blocking against a really good D needs work. They did much better overall than I thought on the pass blocking. I may be shutting up soon. :)

5) Carr does have happy feet. That's true. He runs forward or rolls out many times when a simple step or two up into the pocket would work and he'd stay protected. Once he leaves the pocket, the LBs and corners are lookin' for blood. They need to work on this. He doesn't trust his O-line. Hope he hasn't been reading my posts in the last 2 days.

The one interception in the endzone was totally Carr's fault, yes. He underthrew AJ and shouldn't have been throwing into triple coverage anyway, but he was trying to force the issue. His protection was really lame the whole game and so was the run blocking. I'm just not ready to blame all the team's problems on Carr, but I am ready to see what Banks or Ragone can do for one game and then we'll see. I also saw him run and not make the 1st down marker once when he could've thrown a pass to the receiver being covered by the guy who wound up tackling him (did you follow that?) . :) I don't remember who the receiver was, but I'm thinking it might have been Murphy (TE). Oh, and about the corner blitz thing: Carr doesn't see it coming because he's not looking at Bradford or Gaffney early enough, not that Bradford would ever be open (except maybe on a corner blitz, lol).

It really boils down to this: the main problem wasn't the O-line, although they were a small part of it. The main problems were the pass blocking of Matt Murphy and DD (and maybe Norris, as much as I hate to say anything bad about that guy). I know DD isn't supposed to be the world's best blocker, but we need him to at least slow people down.

Vinny
09-13-2005, 11:21 AM
3) Matt Murphy can't block. Looks like another Miller.I mentioned this a few times last year and I posted a thought about Murphy here (http://www.houstonprofootball.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=50395&highlight=Murphy#post50395) a couple of weeks ago.

I watched Murphy closely and have it taped and will watch it again but I wasn't impressed with his blocking or his awareness. He seemed to miss several key blocks that led to Morency getting hit in the backfield or he would just let a defender shoot beside him in his gap. I was very discouraged by his play.

texan279
09-13-2005, 11:21 AM
I think some are starting to come around... :)

nunusguy
09-13-2005, 11:34 AM
I have not a fan of Carr's contract, but I do not propose to bench him, especially after wtahcing the game again.
I do belive that he will be able to make mental adjustments after seeing that the line player pretty well. I have much more optimism after watching that game again. We committed many errors that are correctable.
I don't for a moment propose benching Carr just because I'm frustrated with
the results of the teams first game. And as a practical matter it would be very problematic for Capers to sit him down because Carr is the single most important face in McNair's "team Texan" marketing effort. But if he is the primary reason that the offense plays all to often like it did Sunday and we have another player who can do better than Carr, bench him !

Kaiser Toro
09-13-2005, 12:28 PM
I don't for a moment propose benching Carr just because I'm frustrated with
the results of the teams first game. And as a practical matter it would be very problematic for Capers to sit him down because Carr is the single most important face in McNair's "team Texan" marketing effort. But if he is the primary reason that the offense plays all to often like it did Sunday and we have another player who can do better than Carr, bench him !

Cool I belive we are in agreeance. Its not Carr I am trashing, it is his contract. We need more value out of him for the price we are paying.

SESupergenius
09-13-2005, 12:32 PM
Carr does lock on this targets, Troy Vincent an achieved NFL All-Pro and a suppossed character guy said it flat out. I would like Carr not to lock on his targets.

I am not saying it was not Gaffs fault, what I am saying is that we do not know. All I know is that Carr was off pretty much the whole day, when he had time, and Gaff missed most of the preseson.Carr is going to have a hard day, that was expected by me considering we are facing a top 5 defense, Hell, Manning had a subpar day on his standards. You'd expect Carr to throw at least 1 int in this game, maybe 2. But when your HB fumbles, your pocket is collapsing and your recievers are not getting open, then it's not all on the QB. Sorry, no way no how. You can rerun and look all you want at the replays, hunting for ammo to prove your point, but you still are missing whole picture. Carr was under deep pressure both from the sides and the front. If you say we don't know that it wasn't Gaffney's fault then you should be saying you don't know it's Carrs fault because you don't know what each OL's blocking assignment was? Was Norris supposed to pick up the LB or was our RT supposed to slide out to protect the end? You can ask these questions on every play. Capers himself said that people missed assignments and a couple of the OL said that the blocking scheme was not working. Does Carr block???

Carr gets credit for nine completions. As far as the immense pressure is concerned, after Carr watches the tape he needs to exercise the demons that plague him, because he is creating the pressure by not stepping into the pocket.[/QUOTE]

aj.
09-13-2005, 12:32 PM
Carr has never been able to avoid pressure in the pocket. He rarely sidesteps or shuffles - which is something that a QB like Brady does so well - his first escape step is almost always a long stride. He is mobile once he escapes the pocket but nifty feet is not one of his tools.

On the first drive, Chester missed the switch on Schoebel's stunt and left Carr wide open. Carr was on the ground 3 seconds after the he took the snap. Hardly enough time to get rid of the ball. That one's on the OL.

texan279
09-13-2005, 12:36 PM
3 seconds is not enough time to get rid of the ball?

Kaiser Toro
09-13-2005, 12:41 PM
I think the most glaring play was the one where Takeo stripped the ball. Bad block by Davis, but it was not on Carr's blind side. All DC had to do was take one step into a beautiful pocket and make the throw.

I am doubting his vision in a game whether it his perihepral vision or the speed of the game he needs to be more aware out there.

texans coach
09-13-2005, 12:47 PM
u don't know football. The receivers were open. What game were u watching? They just didnt get a chance to make plays, cause #8 is hooked on getting 80 the ball, every play!

Kaiser Toro
09-13-2005, 12:47 PM
Carr is going to have a hard day, that was expected by me considering we are facing a top 5 defense, Hell, Manning had a subpar day on his standards. You'd expect Carr to throw at least 1 int in this game, maybe 2. But when your HB fumbles, your pocket is collapsing and your recievers are not getting open, then it's not all on the QB. Sorry, no way no how. You can rerun and look all you want at the replays, hunting for ammo to prove your point, but you still are missing whole picture. Carr was under deep pressure both from the sides and the front. If you say we don't know that it wasn't Gaffney's fault then you should be saying you don't know it's Carrs fault because you don't know what each OL's blocking assignment was? Was Norris supposed to pick up the LB or was our RT supposed to slide out to protect the end? You can ask these questions on every play. Capers himself said that people missed assignments and a couple of the OL said that the blocking scheme was not working. Does Carr block???

Carr gets credit for nine completions. As far as the immense pressure is concerned, after Carr watches the tape he needs to exercise the demons that plague him, because he is creating the pressure by not stepping into the pocket.[/QUOTE]

We are not far off on our takes of Sunday's performance if you would read my other posts. I am not hunting for ammo, I am hunting for answers which I will then form into my own opinion and then apply solutions to it.

My veracity is more pointed towrds DC, because frankly there is a contigent on this board who think he is the only bright spot and will b debate it ad nauseum. I am not saying you are in that camp. If Davis and Murphy do not miss a couple of assignments and Peek makes that interception which would have been a TD we may be singing a diffrent tune.

One last thing on the D:
1st half yards given up 211
2nd half yards given up 105

texans coach
09-13-2005, 12:51 PM
This is not to suggest a QB change. I do know Ragone wasn't playing against first teamers (or with first teamers).

I thought Ragone had great pocket presence in the last pre-season game. He moved away from pressure and into safe spots without taking off in a complete run and while looking down field. I thought he had good command of the offense.

That was the pre-season, against the 3rd and 4th string. Did you even watch him during training camp, he couldnt even throw a 15yd out.

texans coach
09-13-2005, 12:54 PM
you must have been watching a different game than I was. Carr was under immense pressure the entire game, and his recievers were covered pretty tight. Credit to the Bills defense.

But your right Carr does need to step up his play. He has a lot of room for improvement to say the least.

What game were you watching? the other receivers were open, he didnt look their way. He was too busy, trying to give 80 the ball, Bradford was 1 on 1 backside, every play. But he didnt look his way.

SESupergenius
09-13-2005, 12:54 PM
Then are respectfully going to have to agree to disagree. It's chicken before the egg point of view. I have no :homer: ism towards Carr, he does have his issues, but he try's to make plays when things break down, I like that. I saw McNabb have a complete meltdown last night and didn't try to make plays. Our offensive as a whole just does not seem in sync. I saw a dart to AJ that wasn't caught, I saw Murphy not even give an effort to go after a ball, I saw Gaffney not making any plays. I saw Carr with happy feet. I saw numberous turnovers. I saw just a complete meltdown by a team, and funny thing is, well into the 3rd QTR I felt we still had a chance.

The defense did well in the 2nd half, but McGahee was the concentration to kill the clock. This next game is going to tell us plenty.

SESupergenius
09-13-2005, 12:55 PM
What game were you watching? the other receivers were open, he didnt look their way. He was too busy, trying to give 80 the ball, Bradford was 1 on 1 backside, every play. But he didnt look his way.
The long ball to Bradford should tell you plenty, the Bills ran a cover 2, so whoever was going deep was going to be doubled.

Runner
09-13-2005, 12:57 PM
That was the pre-season, against the 3rd and 4th string. Did you even watch him during training camp, he couldnt even throw a 15yd out.

Excellent response! Especially the part where you said the same thing I said in my first line.

That was the pre-season, against the 3rd and 4th string. = I do know Ragone wasn't playing against first teamers (or with first teamers).

I pointed out Ragone had great pocket presence in the last pre-season game. That is all. Do you disagree with that?

Nice 3rd post though, coach.

texans coach
09-13-2005, 12:59 PM
That wasnt a drop! Even Troy Vincent said he looked at him(Bradford) the whole play and when the ball was there, vincent was there also. How is that a drop, when the safety beats the ball? I can tell u never played the game.

texans coach
09-13-2005, 01:02 PM
Carr is going to have a hard day, that was expected by me considering we are facing a top 5 defense, Hell, Manning had a subpar day on his standards. You'd expect Carr to throw at least 1 int in this game, maybe 2. But when your HB fumbles, your pocket is collapsing and your recievers are not getting open, then it's not all on the QB. Sorry, no way no how. You can rerun and look all you want at the replays, hunting for ammo to prove your point, but you still are missing whole picture. Carr was under deep pressure both from the sides and the front. If you say we don't know that it wasn't Gaffney's fault then you should be saying you don't know it's Carrs fault because you don't know what each OL's blocking assignment was? Was Norris supposed to pick up the LB or was our RT supposed to slide out to protect the end? You can ask these questions on every play. Capers himself said that people missed assignments and a couple of the OL said that the blocking scheme was not working. Does Carr block???

Carr gets credit for nine completions. As far as the immense pressure is concerned, after Carr watches the tape he needs to exercise the demons that plague him, because he is creating the pressure by not stepping into the pocket.[/QUOTE]

What game were u watching? The other receivers were open, he was just locked on 80 all the time. If 80 wasnt open, he just thought that all the other receivers were covered.

texans coach
09-13-2005, 01:05 PM
Excellent response! Especially the part where you said the same thing I said in my first line.

That was the pre-season, against the 3rd and 4th string. = I do know Ragone wasn't playing against first teamers (or with first teamers).

I pointed out Ragone had great pocket presence in the last pre-season game. That is all. Do you disagree with that?

Nice 3rd post though, coach.

Youre right! I agree.

HJam72
09-13-2005, 01:12 PM
That's it. Fire the whole staff and start over. Put the 2nd stringers in for the WHOLE offense. We've got a year to figure out who to draft and trade for. Shut off the servers, redo the website, make everybody start a new membership, and let's everybody take some form of anti-depressant. :)

This board needs an online Psychologist, lol. I'll go first.

At least the Steelers fans can come here and get a good laugh.

jr0ck
09-13-2005, 01:54 PM
That wasnt a drop! Even Troy Vincent said he looked at him(Bradford) the whole play and when the ball was there, vincent was there also. How is that a drop, when the safety beats the ball? I can tell u never played the game.

well the golden rule, coach (sorry to ironic to pass up), is that if it hits your hands, catch the ball. despite my Hervoyel quote below, which i am using simply because it cracks me up, i think bradford is on the team because he earned his spot. i think he is very capable of producing in the NFL and i have no gripes about him on the roster. that being said, it was his fault he didn't catch the ball that was thrown to him on a crucial 3rd and long. in double coverage, you can't ask for a better ball (it hit him on both of his hands while he was falling with his back to the ground) to 'drop' in for you. he didn't make the play, simple as that. not that he always won't, and not that most do, but he did not this time (and a little piece of my soul died :heh: )

well i just got back from watching game tape up to the beginning of the second quarter and i'd like to point out some things that may not have been brought to light. i'm actually impressed with a few things, while being surprised/disappointed with others (but that's a gimme):

the good:

1. cc brown's (from now on referred to as CCB) amazing closing speed. he is also getting closer and closer to the label "sure tackler" IMO. an amazing 6th round choice, not upset one bit he is starting (and i'm a huge earl supporter from last year).

2. PBuc's physicality. he is more physically imposing than DRob, although we all know who the more physically dominating of the two is. still, i'm impressed with his ability to move his size that fast/quick. i think his two negated TFLs are also a great sign of things to come.

3. TJ! on the first goaline stand at the end of the 1st QTR, Mr. T split a double team on the goaline! and if i saw it correctly, we where in some sort of dime hybrid with only two DL in the formation. his disruption led to an assist with CCB (who stayed home and spied the run quite well) and more importantly a stop on third and goal.

4. babin's spin move looked much quicker and leads me to hope it will be more effective this year. he seems to be progressing nicely in all area's of his game as well.

the bad:

1. as good as the DL looked at points, their collective fatigue jumped out at me during one of the longer series. it's almost night and day from the beginning of the series till the end. maybe more rotation to keep the player's fresh? and while i think they are doing an adequate job of tying up lineman, i'd love to see more (or some, didn't notice any) slants/stunts to work towards creating the gaping holes caused by OL miscues. just a simple loop or crash stunt on either side might do wonders...

2. peek's trial by fire has begun. although i think he played about on par with babin (the OLBs played better the ILBs, but they all played solid), i saw somethings that i tend to think are keeping his play from being game changing/momentum swinging. of course the dropped freebie, but things like his angles and a noticeable amount of fatigue as well. his speed definitely helps him compensate for his hiccups, but once he becomes more efficient in his movements he will be far more than the average player he is right now.

3. the offensive blocking aside from the OL. gaffney, DD/wells, and murphy need to realize that if given a blocking assignment, that their block can make or break a plays success. not that they don't already, but we were one block away from 3-5 more yards per carry at least 3 times! and if a back is kept in for protection, then protect david! not that he didn't have enough time to make his reads (more often than not he does), but it shouldn't be your guy who gets him.

that being said, even though it's being discussed in length just about everywhere on the board, carr's confidence in his receivers/pocket presence was really, REALLY not there. if you watch lossman go through his reads, the time it takes him to get rid of the ball and the shape of his OL when he throws there is only one glaring difference between him and carr that i see. when lossman would make a throw, carr's happy feet would take over. i would say on average carr and lossman both had on average 3-3.5 seconds to make reads and throw the ball. the reason lossman looks like he has more time than carr (the majority of the time) is not because there's no incoming pressure, but because the ball is in the air before the blocking breaks down. hope i am contributing to an accurate evaluation of our team, just my :twocents:


:texflag:

texans coach
09-13-2005, 02:00 PM
well the golden rule, coach (sorry to ironic to pass up), is that if it hits your hands, catch the ball. despite my Hervoyel quote below, which i am using simply because it cracks me up, i think bradford is on the team because he earned his spot. i think he is very capable of producing in the NFL and i have no gripes about him on the roster. that being said, it was his fault he didn't catch the ball that was thrown to him on a crucial 3rd and long. in double coverage, you can't ask for a better ball (it hit him on both of his hands while he was falling with his back to the ground) to 'drop' in for you. he didn't make the play, simple as that. not that he always won't, and not that most do, but he did not this time (and a little piece of my soul died :heh: )

well i just got back from watching game tape up to the beginning of the second quarter and i'd like to point out some things that may not have been brought to light. i'm actually impressed with a few things, while being surprised/disappointed with others (but that's a gimme):

the good:

1. cc brown's (from now on referred to as CCB) amazing closing speed. he is also getting closer and closer to the label "sure tackler" IMO. an amazing 6th round choice, not upset one bit he is starting (and i'm a huge earl supporter from last year).

2. PBuc's physicality. he is more physically imposing than DRob, although we all know who the more physically dominating of the two is. still, i'm impressed with his ability to move his size that fast/quick. i think his two negated TFLs are also a great sign of things to come.

3. TJ! on the first goaline stand at the end of the 1st QTR, Mr. T split a double team on the goaline! and if i saw it correctly, we where in some sort of dime hybrid with only two DL in the formation. his disruption led to an assist with CCB (who stayed home and spied the run quite well) and more importantly a stop on third and goal.

4. babin's spin move looked much quicker and leads me to hope it will be more effective this year. he seems to be progressing nicely in all area's of his game as well.

the bad:

1. as good as the DL looked at points, their collective fatigue jumped out at me during one of the longer series. it's almost night and day from the beginning of the series till the end. maybe more rotation to keep the player's fresh? and while i think they are doing an adequate job of tying up lineman, i'd love to see more (or some, didn't notice any) slants/stunts to work towards creating the gaping holes caused by OL miscues. just a simple loop or crash stunt on either side might do wonders...

2. peek's trial by fire has begun. although i think he played about on par with babin (the OLBs played better the ILBs, but they all played solid), i saw somethings that i tend to think are keeping his play from being game changing/momentum swinging. of course the dropped freebie, but things like his angles and a noticeable amount of fatigue as well. his speed definitely helps him compensate for his hiccups, but once he becomes more efficient in his movements he will be far more than the average player he is right now.

3. the offensive blocking aside from the OL. gaffney, DD/wells, and murphy need to realize that if given a blocking assignment, that their block can make or break a plays success. not that they don't already, but we were one block away from 3-5 more yards per carry at least 3 times! and if a back is kept in for protection, then protect david! not that he didn't have enough time to make his reads (more often than not he does), but it shouldn't be your guy who gets him.

that being said, even though it's being discussed in length just about everywhere on the board, carr's confidence in his receivers/pocket presence was really, REALLY not there. if you watch lossman go through his reads, the time it takes him to get rid of the ball and the shape of his OL when he throws there is only one glaring difference between him and carr that i see. when lossman would make a throw, carr's happy feet would take over. i would say on average carr and lossman both had on average 3-3.5 seconds to make reads and throw the ball. the reason lossman looks like he has more time than carr (the majority of the time) is not because there's no incoming pressure, but because the ball is in the air before the blocking breaks down. hope i am contributing to an accurate evaluation of our team, just my :twocents:


:texflag:

Great break down of the game. Its only proper to reply after youve done your research. Youve set the standard for the message board. U need to apply for the head coach position!!!!! :texflag:

Porky
09-13-2005, 02:00 PM
Great thread, and observations. I'm glad you guys somehow held your noses, and rewatched this puppy, because I would rather be stripped naked, tied to a tree over a giant fire ant mound, and have honey poured over me, then watch that train wreck again. But, hey that's just me. :)

bckey
09-13-2005, 02:00 PM
I watched the game again today on my dvr also. You're right. With the emotions stripped away I was able to see things different too.

The offensive line wasn't as bad as I thought. One sack came on a stunt between Wade and Wiegert but the rest were on the outside. Greer got one on the inside of Wade but that was because Wade was locked up with someone else. Actually he was back with Carr because his man was so fast around the edge. Other than that it was the backs that couldn't block that led to sacks.

The defensive line did play a good game other than penalties. GFunk could be back. Maybe TJ being here is a motivating factor.

I didn't see the ILB's much because I was paying more attention to the DL so I won't comment on them. I don't want to rewatch the game again to see their play

OLB's did pretty good from what I could tell and did get some pressure on Losman but he proved to be pretty elusive and also got rid of the ball to avoid sacks.

DRob is awesome. Nuff said. PBuc played soft in the first half but did a little better in the 2nd half. Tackled better than advertised.

CCBrown was good against the run and around the ball alot. I didn't see him good enough in coverage to comment.

M Robinson is no worry. We know what we have there.

Carr wasn't as bad as I thought either so I dis agree with you on this one. Some of the balls were on the money. Bradford had one perfectly thrown to him that he should have caught even with the coverage. It would have moved us at least in field goal range and given us a first down. Same with Gaffney not turning around. We are desperately hurting for someone to emerge as an legit #2 receiver. The ball to AJ in triple coverage was not very smart but at that point the Texans were beginning to get desperate to make something happen and Carr tried to force it in to AJ. I'm not ready to see Carr benched yet.

Game changing plays.

Peek not intercepting and taking it to the house along with Bradford not catching the pass to him in the 3rd quarter. These 2 plays would have made the score either 19-17 or 21-19 and put us right in the thick of things.

Penalties that gave the Bills first downs and extended their drives especially the roughing the passer call on Simmons.

The ball that was stripped from Carr before his arm went forward. It was the result of another effortless block.

I won't comment on the coaching staff because most alredy know how I feel about Capers/Palmer/Fangio and it hasn't changed. I don't think anyone will lose their job this year unless wehave 7 wins or less with the exception of Palmer. If we look bad against Pittsburgh and don't have much production from our offense he could be gone during the bye week and replaced with Pendry.

texans coach
09-13-2005, 02:05 PM
I watched the game again today on my dvr also. You're right. With the emotions stripped away I was able to see things different too.

The offensive line wasn't as bad as I thought. One sack came on a stunt between Wade and Wiegert but the rest were on the outside. Greer got one on the inside of Wade but that was because Wade was locked up with someone else. Actually he was back with Carr because his man was so fast around the edge. Other than that it was the backs that couldn't block that led to sacks.

The defensive line did play a good game other than penalties. GFunk could be back. Maybe TJ being here is a motivating factor.

I didn't see the ILB's much because I was paying more attention to the DL so I won't comment on them. I don't want to rewatch the game again to see their play

OLB's did pretty good from what I could tell and did get some pressure on Losman but he proved to be pretty elusive and also got rid of the ball to avoid sacks.

DRob is awesome. Nuff said. PBuc played soft in the first half but did a little better in the 2nd half. Tackled better than advertised.

CCBrown was good against the run and around the ball alot. I didn't see him good enough in coverage to comment.

M Robinson is no worry. We know what we have there.

Carr wasn't as bad as I thought either so I dis agree with you on this one. Some of the balls were on the money. Bradford had one perfectly thrown to him that he should have caught even with the coverage. It would have moved us at least in field goal range and given us a first down. Same with Gaffney not turning around. We are desperately hurting for someone to emerge as an legit #2 receiver. The ball to AJ in triple coverage was not very smart but at that point the Texans were beginning to get desperate to make something happen and Carr tried to force it in to AJ. I'm not ready to see Carr benched yet.

Game changing plays.

Peek not intercepting and taking it to the house along with Bradford not catching the pass to him in the 3rd quarter. These 2 plays would have made the score either 19-17 or 21-19 and put us right in the thick of things.

Penalties that gave the Bills first downs and extended their drives especially the roughing the passer call on Simmons.

The ball that was stripped from Carr before his arm went forward. It was the result of another effortless block.

I won't comment on the coaching staff because most alredy know how I feel about Capers/Palmer/Fangio and it hasn't changed. I don't think anyone will lose their job this year unless wehave 7 wins or less with the exception of Palmer. If we look bad against Pittsburgh and don't have much production from our offense he could be gone during the bye week and replaced with Pendry.

And you forgot about another crucial 3rd down, when DC threw 80 on a slant and he dropped it. No one is superman. They all had dropped balls that hit their hands at the same time with being smashed. Now u tell me the difference!!!! If there is any.

SESupergenius
09-13-2005, 02:57 PM
That wasnt a drop! Even Troy Vincent said he looked at him(Bradford) the whole play and when the ball was there, vincent was there also. How is that a drop, when the safety beats the ball? I can tell u never played the game.Wrong play there Capers. On Vincent 1st interception he said he had is eye keyed on Andre to make sure he didn't break up field, Carr's options at that point were limited because he was outside the pocket. On Bradfords, it was clear as day that Bradford had it in his hands and really did nothing to help himself get the ball.

utahmark
09-13-2005, 03:13 PM
i wish i had as big a tv as some of you guys, cause on my tv i dont get to see the wr's running their routes that often. i would like to be able to see the wr's because i think that is the key to how well car is doing. we already know carr doesnt have a long time to get rid of the ball so the next question is, does he have anyone to throw it to? if the answer is yes then we need to start pointing the finger at carr. if the answer is no then we need to leave him alone an address the other positions(you cant expect a quarterback to do much with no time and one open)

SESupergenius
09-13-2005, 03:24 PM
i wish i had as big a tv as some of you guys, cause on my tv i dont get to see the wr's running their routes that often. i would like to be able to see the wr's because i think that is the key to how well car is doing. we already know carr doesnt have a long time to get rid of the ball so the next question is, does he have anyone to throw it to? if the answer is yes then we need to start pointing the finger at carr. if the answer is no then we need to leave him alone an address the other positions(you cant expect a quarterback to do much with no time and one open)
Trust me, it's a team effort, Carr is bearing more than his share of the blame however.

JmikeT
09-13-2005, 03:24 PM
Plain and simple Carr must shoulder much of the blame on offense. Missed reads, not looking off defenders, a 3 step drop and still holding the ball too long...
The other part of the collapse on offense - COACHING. How many times do we have to see a rolling pocket work only to abandon it. Hey if the O line is not going to protect or support a pocket passer then we must adjust to Carr's strengths...operating on the run.

Kaiser Toro
09-13-2005, 03:27 PM
This against a Buffalo defensive game plan that wasn't very complicated. "We showed a lot of things that we ran in the preseason," said Bills free safety Troy Vincent, who intercepted Carr twice. "We didn't have a bunch of guys jumping around out there and we didn't disguise a lot of our coverages. We basically played a pretty vanilla defense."

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2005/writers/jeffri_chadiha/09/13/carr/index.html

SESupergenius
09-13-2005, 03:37 PM
Of course Vincent is going to talk trash, he got 2 picks. And right after that in the same column:

The most glaring problem isn't Carr. It's what's going on around him. There still isn't a legitimate second receiver on the roster to complement Johnson, who certainly will face double coverage all season. There also isn't a tight end that could be considered a reliable receiver. So when you talk about the weapons Carr has at his disposal, it basically amounts to two people -- Johnson and running back Domanick Davis. That isn't going to get it done. Moreover, Carr still isn't getting enough pass protection. After all the talk about using more three- and five-step drops and timing routes to help keep Carr upright -- he had been sacked 140 times in his first three NFL seasons -- Houston still had no answers for Buffalo's pass rush.


Nice try Toro.

Kaiser Toro
09-13-2005, 03:43 PM
Of course Vincent is going to talk trash, he got 2 picks. And right after that in the same column:

The most glaring problem isn't Carr. It's what's going on around him. There still isn't a legitimate second receiver on the roster to complement Johnson, who certainly will face double coverage all season. There also isn't a tight end that could be considered a reliable receiver. So when you talk about the weapons Carr has at his disposal, it basically amounts to two people -- Johnson and running back Domanick Davis. That isn't going to get it done. Moreover, Carr still isn't getting enough pass protection. After all the talk about using more three- and five-step drops and timing routes to help keep Carr upright -- he had been sacked 140 times in his first three NFL seasons -- Houston still had no answers for Buffalo's pass rush.


Nice try Toro.

No, not a nice try. There is a difference between someone giving their observation that actually played in the game, Vincent, and a reporter who does not cover the Texans on a regular basis.

Large difference.

SESupergenius
09-13-2005, 03:48 PM
And Vincent can say that for every game they play this year, they are not the Patriots where they hide much of the packages. They just have a great defense with great players.

TEXANRED
09-13-2005, 04:34 PM
now the coaching staff is posting

Runner
09-13-2005, 04:53 PM
now the coaching staff is posting

Yep, and he responded to about 30 posts in his first hour. No wonder he's a coach.

Diehardtexan
09-13-2005, 05:41 PM
The biggest problem with Carr to me is that he looked like a beat up QB. You can't let the other team see that you've been beat. If you look at Farve and Brady.. when they get sacked, throw an INT, over throw or miss a WR, they can't wait to get back in there.. they have the looks that said I'm not down yet...Carr just sets there and puts his hands on head. He should've at Least went straight to the phone instead of waiting for the equipment guy to call him to it.

run-david-run
09-13-2005, 05:43 PM
I watched the game again today on my dvr also. You're right. With the emotions stripped away I was able to see things different too.

The offensive line wasn't as bad as I thought. One sack came on a stunt between Wade and Wiegert but the rest were on the outside. Greer got one on the inside of Wade but that was because Wade was locked up with someone else. Actually he was back with Carr because his man was so fast around the edge. Other than that it was the backs that couldn't block that led to sacks.

The defensive line did play a good game other than penalties. GFunk could be back. Maybe TJ being here is a motivating factor.

I didn't see the ILB's much because I was paying more attention to the DL so I won't comment on them. I don't want to rewatch the game again to see their play

OLB's did pretty good from what I could tell and did get some pressure on Losman but he proved to be pretty elusive and also got rid of the ball to avoid sacks.

DRob is awesome. Nuff said. PBuc played soft in the first half but did a little better in the 2nd half. Tackled better than advertised.

CCBrown was good against the run and around the ball alot. I didn't see him good enough in coverage to comment.

M Robinson is no worry. We know what we have there.

Carr wasn't as bad as I thought either so I dis agree with you on this one. Some of the balls were on the money. Bradford had one perfectly thrown to him that he should have caught even with the coverage. It would have moved us at least in field goal range and given us a first down. Same with Gaffney not turning around. We are desperately hurting for someone to emerge as an legit #2 receiver. The ball to AJ in triple coverage was not very smart but at that point the Texans were beginning to get desperate to make something happen and Carr tried to force it in to AJ. I'm not ready to see Carr benched yet.

Game changing plays.

Peek not intercepting and taking it to the house along with Bradford not catching the pass to him in the 3rd quarter. These 2 plays would have made the score either 19-17 or 21-19 and put us right in the thick of things.

Penalties that gave the Bills first downs and extended their drives especially the roughing the passer call on Simmons.

The ball that was stripped from Carr before his arm went forward. It was the result of another effortless block.

I won't comment on the coaching staff because most alredy know how I feel about Capers/Palmer/Fangio and it hasn't changed. I don't think anyone will lose their job this year unless wehave 7 wins or less with the exception of Palmer. If we look bad against Pittsburgh and don't have much production from our offense he could be gone during the bye week and replaced with Pendry.


I think most of you are wrong on the pick to AJ in the endzone. First off, it was on a play-action pass, that is supposed to at least force the safties to hesitate, AJ had beaten both Milloy and Clements, but becasue we had not been able to run the ball, there was no need to hesitate on Vincents part. That exact same throw on a 3rd and short and its 6 points....

SESupergenius
09-13-2005, 05:46 PM
right and we didn't go deep a lot and it was a great opportunity to catch them off guard. The play action pass worked few times so I had no problem with that call. People complain when we don't go deep and complain when we do.

Nawzer
09-13-2005, 05:51 PM
I wish when they show the games on TV they would show it from behind. They do it in MNF and it's neat to see the play develop from the QB perspective. Often times we don't get to see what's happening in the secondary. What happens then is that when we play as bad as we did on Sunday all the blame will go on the o-line. I know the o-line was just horrible but I think Carr does stare at his receivers and that's not good thing. I think if we were able to see some of the stuff that was happening in the secondary it would become more clear who really is to blame. But for this particular game against the Bills we just stunk it up everywhere.

Kaiser Toro
09-13-2005, 05:52 PM
right and we didn't go deep a lot and it was a great opportunity to catch them off guard. The play action pass worked few times so I had no problem with that call. People complain when we don't go deep and complain when we do.

Agree, but David underthrew the ball and did not see Vincent. Admitted dig there. :)

I still want to see the ball go deep more often.

SESupergenius
09-13-2005, 06:10 PM
I thought that ball was right there, maybe a tad under, but still farther than the 2 trailing defenders. Vincent just made a great take on the ball. It's hard to throw to Andre long when there is cover 2 and guys are looking for Andre, like Vincent said. You have this funny way of making me agree to disagree with you but see your point. You'd make a great bar buddy.

Bubbajwp
09-13-2005, 06:24 PM
Not quite sure how we can pin the goof on Gaffney as I did not hear the play call. How do we not know it was not Carr's fault. The play could have called for a throw 10 more yards down the field.

After watching the game, Carr was not on target the whole day. I am more likely to believe his decision making an accuracy were much more culpabale than Gaffney's play.
You cant blame carr he hit bradford in the hands and dont get me started on the gaffney play

Bubbajwp
09-13-2005, 06:27 PM
At the leaves us with Carr and man was it worse than even I thought it could be. I started out counting how many seconds he had when he dropped back to pass. I conted around on average of 3 seconds, which I think is fair amount of time to go through a couple of reads and step into the pocket for your other progressions. What is happening is that David drops back and is locked on a receiver and one of three things happen - 1) he throws and it ain't pretty; 2) he takes off and runs; 3) he takes off an tries to create something. Only taking off and run is the good thing. The point here is that the guy has happy feet, plain and simple. If he would just step up into the pocket (and yes OLINE haters there were planty of pockets) and get anohter look, this may solve our problems.
when did you start to count. If you started counting on the snap then I dont think that three seconds is long enough.

Number19
09-13-2005, 06:30 PM
Those of you who have rewatched the game - can you tell me how many times Gaffney was thrown to? He had the one that everyone talks about. Did he have any other chances?

Several have mentioned that Carr locks on his target. The problem is that his target is AJ.

AJ needs to be used as a decoy with Gaffney or the TE as the primary target. When Mathis returns, he needs to take Bradfords place and thrown to often - even if he drops the ball occassionally.

Wolf
09-13-2005, 06:40 PM
I personally couldn't stand to watch the game again and maybe or maybe not the OL had a good game..I would say I think the whole offense stunk up the field. OL included. All I can say is something is wrong and been wrong for 4 seasons.. It is either the OL doesn't block on a play or the WR's don't know how to get open or Carr doesn't go through the progressions fast enough (or it is AJ to DD progression)

I think what bugs me the most is the "hype" of the triplets that the networks talk about of DD,Carr, and AJ.. and talented ? yes they are so .. if the OL is playing well what does that say about everything else?

Kaiser Toro
09-13-2005, 10:04 PM
when did you start to count. If you started counting on the snap then I dont think that three seconds is long enough.

counted on the snap

Kaiser Toro
09-13-2005, 10:05 PM
Those of you who have rewatched the game - can you tell me how many times Gaffney was thrown to? He had the one that everyone talks about. Did he have any other chances?

Several have mentioned that Carr locks on his target. The problem is that his target is AJ.

AJ needs to be used as a decoy with Gaffney or the TE as the primary target. When Mathis returns, he needs to take Bradfords place and thrown to often - even if he drops the ball occassionally.

I do not know, but to give a liberal guess - twice

outofhnd
09-14-2005, 02:18 AM
We needed to show a lot more formations than the 2 rec 2 te formation we showed. Even though you give the offensive line credit, I still believe we are very prone to the delay blitz as our lineman seem to separate as the play begins and instead of forming a pocket they form like a stonhenge looking formation. Too many times i saw the tackles on an island witha good 3 ft or more between them and the guards. Also too many times i saw our interior lineman give up real estate and get pushed back in on Carr. While that may not be a sack it sure can make a QB very nervous. I think DC after the initial drive was unnerved and did not feel safe so he started to just try and unload the ball.

Runner
09-14-2005, 05:59 AM
Firstly, The offensive line played very well on Sunday. I counted one sack allowed. The rest were Davis's, Murphy's and a receiver's (was out of the picture on the edge) fault. Run blocking good, pass blocking good. Bravo to the O Line.



I'm glad the team looks better than miserable when the game is watched after the heat of the moment. However, "very well" seems a little of an overstatement, as well as saying our run blocking was good.

Davis: 14 carries/48 yards
Johnson: 2 carries/7 yards

Looks like a lot of room for improvement.


Remember, Dre was embarrassed, Riley admitted to confusion and miscommunication on the line, and the offense just didn't produce. If the O-line played very well, we may have to say they were "spectacular" when we run for 90 yards and only give up 3 sacks and 10 hurries.

aj.
09-14-2005, 06:30 AM
I don't have to re-watch anything to know that the offense sucked on Sunday. 25 yards passing is good for a drive but not for a game.

William.carter
09-14-2005, 09:17 AM
To add to my long post here are the significant plays:

1st Half:
Davis missed block and a hold.
Receiver missed block, sack
Payne offsides
Payne defensive holding
Carr Rollout, horrible pass to AJ on a 15 yard out
Delay of the game on the Texans at the Bills 5

2nd Half:
David hold
Peek missed interception
Davis missed block, sack
Murphy missed block, sack
Carr interception by Vincent. Carr did not see Vincent at all.
Roughing the passer, on Simmons?
Murphy missed block
Carr runs but does not get first
Takeo causes fumble, Carr no vision and if he made one step up into pocket avoids Takeo.


On of those missed blocks by a TE was Bruener, Not Murphy. But either way they were avoidable. The flip side however is that it looked on both occasions like the TE's released their man expecting Carr to dump to them when they did, but he never saw them. I'm a Carr fan and have been since the begining, but the kid gloves have to come off this season. He needs to read the defense better and scan his options quicker. I'm hopeful this week he'll be in more of a rythem with the home crowd backing him.

William.carter
09-14-2005, 09:20 AM
Those of you who have rewatched the game - can you tell me how many times Gaffney was thrown to? He had the one that everyone talks about. Did he have any other chances?

Several have mentioned that Carr locks on his target. The problem is that his target is AJ.

AJ needs to be used as a decoy with Gaffney or the TE as the primary target. When Mathis returns, he needs to take Bradfords place and thrown to often - even if he drops the ball occassionally.

The pass that hit him was the only one that came his way. I agree with your post 100%. you want to free up AJ, throw the ball to someone else and force the D to play man Coverage or Zone rather than double AJ all day long.

Honestly, I think that damn ball hit Gaffney because he had no faith whatsoever that the ball would be coming his way this game. At least not at that point.

BigBull17
09-14-2005, 09:27 AM
The pass that hit him was the only one that came his way. I agree with your post 100%. you want to free up AJ, throw the ball to someone else and force the D to play man Coverage or Zone rather than double AJ all day long.

Honestly, I think that damn ball hit Gaffney because he had no faith whatsoever that the ball would be coming his way this game. At least not at that point.
The number 1 way to not have the ball thrown to you is to do what he did. I understand thst you need to take pressure off of AJ, but if Gaff isnt even gonna LOOK for the ball why throw to him?