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swtbound07
09-13-2005, 01:13 AM
Anybody else notice the inordinate number of offsides penalties he committed early? I think its time to move TJ up the depth chart. jmo

HardKnockTexan
09-13-2005, 01:22 AM
Payne was offsides FAR too often. With that being said, at this point, Payne is a much better player and knows his role in this defense more than TJ. Penalties are more a sign of poor coaching than poor playing.

BradK10
09-13-2005, 01:27 AM
It was totally inexcusable. For God's sake, you're the nose tackle, you line up DIRECTLY OVER THE BALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!

HardKnockTexan
09-13-2005, 01:34 AM
it is VERY frustrating for sure but I think the fault lies mainly on the coaching staff, not Seth Payne. Jumping offsides is a lack of dissiplin. Dissiplin is what a coaching staff should be installing in ALL of their players from day one. Obviously this wasnt a focus during the offseason.

eriadoc
09-13-2005, 01:44 AM
To a point, penalties such as that are a lack of discipline, as you perform in much the same manner as you practice. But when you have the ball under your nose .....

ledzeppelin229
09-13-2005, 01:57 AM
A vet shouldn't be relying on the coach for discipline at this point in their career. I could excuse it for a rookie, but not Payne. I don't really know what was up with him but I think he'll get it straightened out. As for starting TJ, it's irrelevant because they will rotate around anyway, and TJ is (according to the coaches..for what thats worth) more of a 3-4 DE than NT.

outofhnd
09-13-2005, 03:27 AM
His offsides were not a lack of discipline. Losman realized the end pass rushers were staying in outside contain and the the bulk of the passrush was coming up the gut. Even though he lines up over the ball Seth still wants to get that perfect jump off the snap and get into the backfield i would have to see more playing time from TJ before i call for him in a starting role.

HJam72
09-13-2005, 03:50 AM
Even though he lines up over the ball Seth still wants to get that perfect jump off the snap and get into the backfield ...

Yeah, I think the D was just desperate to get to Lossman. Maybe they wouldn't be so desperate if the Offense would stay on the field some. Having said that, it is pretty bad for a nose-tackle to be offsides.

Question: If he was offsides, why didn't he knock the ball out of the center's hand? LOL

beerlover
09-13-2005, 04:08 AM
actually Payne was as healthy and looked as good as I've ever seen him play, J. P. that rookie QB was doing an outstanding job of throwing him off plus the fact he WAS TRYING TO APPLY PRESSURE UP THE MIDDLE. in the end the Texans where penalized far less 6 times for only 38 yards compared to Buffalo 10 flags for 71 yards thats almost a 2:1 ratio, it was a non factor :penalty:

outofhnd
09-13-2005, 04:12 AM
sadly we could not be prepared for losman he only had 5 previous snaps in his career we seemed to do a better job on him in the second half and he got a lil more errant with his throws. Hopefully we can get to rothlisberger since our outside pass rush can actually come after the qb.

ledzeppelin229
09-13-2005, 04:13 AM
I don't know about a non-factor, for example the Simmons penalty on Losman that was 15 yards and automatic first down. We "beat" them in the penalty war but some of ours really hurt us and never know what might have changed in the course of the game if some of those penalties hadn't occurred.

beerlover
09-13-2005, 04:18 AM
I don't know about a non-factor, for example the Simmons penalty on Losman that was 15 yards and automatic first down. We "beat" them in the penalty war but some of ours really hurt us and never know what might have changed in the course of the game if some of those penalties hadn't occurred.

penalties are a part of the game, you have to live with them. I can accept a 38 yds per game avg for the year and be happy. the playcalling on 1st downs, the critical 4th down late situations where the Texans would not even attempt the risk all bordered on fear and willingness to lose that is not acceptable :bag:

Scooter
09-13-2005, 07:20 AM
fluke. how many games does payne get called for offsides? TJ appeared to me atleast to get shoved around quite a bit while payne had a solid push. i'd commend them on their composure despite peek's dropped gimme, buchannon getting roasted, no offense, & being on the field for closing in on 3 quarters of the game.

BigBull17
09-13-2005, 08:26 AM
it is VERY frustrating for sure but I think the fault lies mainly on the coaching staff, not Seth Payne. Jumping offsides is a lack of dissiplin. Dissiplin is what a coaching staff should be installing in ALL of their players from day one. Obviously this wasnt a focus during the offseason.
If hes a young buck sure, but Payne is a vet with years of experiance, there is no one who should instil disapline in him.

PapaL
09-13-2005, 08:43 AM
There is no excuse for a freaking NT, who is right on the ball - to be offsides. Has nothing to do with coaching, just plain dumb. Mistakes and poor execution cost teams games.

texan279
09-13-2005, 08:55 AM
Payne was offsides FAR too often. With that being said, at this point, Payne is a much better player and knows his role in this defense more than TJ. Penalties are more a sign of poor coaching than poor playing.

Gimme a break, I guess when he was called for holding that was the coaches fault too? When will some realize that everything that happens on the field is not 110% on the coaches, you know the players are the ones actually out there on the field...