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run-david-run
09-10-2005, 01:15 PM
Recently Dom Capers said this year should yield the most fruit from a defensive standpoint becasue we finnally have the right personel to run a 3-4 defense. :yahoo:

Now this beges the question as to why in God's name did we run this defense without the correct personel to sustain it? I can undesrstand implementing it in so the players gain familirity with it, such as in third and long or other passing situation, but having the 4-3 as our base? :brickwall

Don't get me wrong, I am a fan of the 3-4 and think it should work well now that we have the right personel. But if the coach himself admits he can't run it effectivley the first two years, then why not at least experimnet with the 4-3 to see if it can be effective? This seems like another example of a coach trying to force a team to adapt to his system, instead of a a coach adapting to the talent he has.....

For possible results of this occurence see 2003 Lakers and Phil Jackson's triangle offense...

El Tejano
09-10-2005, 01:27 PM
Perhaps because from a coach standpoint the first thing you want your players to do is to buy into your system. Usually if you don't do that, you don't have success. If he goes and installs another defense, it is telling the rest of your team that even you as the coach and designer of this defense, don't believe your system can work.

LBC_Justin
09-10-2005, 01:31 PM
Recently Dom Capers said this year should yield the most fruit from a defensive standpoint becasue we finnally have the right personel to run a 3-4 defense. :yahoo:

Now this beges the question as to why in God's name did we run this defense without the correct personel to sustain it? I can undesrstand implementing it in so the players gain familirity with it, such as in third and long or other passing situation, but having the 4-3 as our base? :brickwall

Don't get me wrong, I am a fan of the 3-4 and think it should work well now that we have the right personel. But if the coach himself admits he can't run it effectivley the first two years, then why not at least experimnet with the 4-3 to see if it can be effective? This seems like another example of a coach trying to force a team to adapt to his system, instead of a a coach adapting to the talent he has.....

For possible results of this occurence see 2003 Lakers and Phil Jackson's triangle offense...

LOL if you think we had the personel to run a 4-3 you are crazy. It takes time to build talent and depth. You only get so much money and so many draft picks.

Be realistic. WE HAVE BEEN A FREAKING EXPANSION TEAM!!!!!!!!!
I think too many of our fans lose track of that.

Being an expansion team will affect you for about 1 career cycle. Roughly 8-12 years. After that, no excuses, because you should be stocked with your past draft picks and chosen talent.


:texflag:

tsip
09-10-2005, 01:46 PM
"Being an expansion team will affect you for about 1 career cycle. Roughly 8-12 years. After that, no excuses, because you should be stocked with your past draft picks and chosen talent"

...don't tell this to any NFL Owner!!!...you're kidding, right?...I know,
related/friend of Capers, huh?

Jwwillis
09-10-2005, 01:54 PM
Dont know about the 8-12 yr thing, but being an expansion team as an explanation is right on. I doubt the Texans had the debth in personel to run any defense at a playoff level their 1st three yrs. Funny how if a coach says things are better now than ever that a fan would say "why was it bad before". especially an expansion teams fan.

run-david-run
09-10-2005, 01:56 PM
LOL if you think we had the personel to run a 4-3 you are crazy. It takes time to build talent and depth. You only get so much money and so many draft picks.

Be realistic. WE HAVE BEEN A FREAKING EXPANSION TEAM!!!!!!!!!
I think too many of our fans lose track of that.

Being an expansion team will affect you for about 1 career cycle. Roughly 8-12 years. After that, no excuses, because you should be stocked with your past draft picks and chosen talent.


:texflag:
Seeing as almoast every college and pro team runs a 4-3, players that sit into that scheme would be way easier to find. I am not saying we have the personel for a 4-3, but if we planned on using it we obviously would have had a wide range of players to go after that would fot our system.

Fiddy
09-10-2005, 01:59 PM
Seeing as almoast every college and pro team runs a 4-3, players that sit into that scheme would be way easier to find. Not really, some college DE's are like 250 pounds. They would get pushed around in the NFL. Peek is an example. He is a tweener. When he came out, he was too small to play DE every down. The 3-4 puts him on the outside and allows him to become a every down player. A lot of teams are making the transition to the 3-4 because it is easier to find players for it.

LBC_Justin
09-10-2005, 02:37 PM
"Being an expansion team will affect you for about 1 career cycle. Roughly 8-12 years. After that, no excuses, because you should be stocked with your past draft picks and chosen talent"

...don't tell this to any NFL Owner!!!...you're kidding, right?...I know,
related/friend of Capers, huh?My friends call be Justin Capers but that is beside the point. LOL

I am not saying we shouldn't be good but the reality is that the effect of being an expansion team and starting from scratch usually last about 8-12 years (obviously in the later years the effect is much much much less). You probably don't want to hear this.

tsip
09-10-2005, 02:51 PM
My friends call be Justin Capers but that is beside the point. LOL

I am not saying we shouldn't be good but the reality is that the effect of being an expansion team and starting from scratch usually last about 8-12 years (obviously in the later years the effect is much much much less). You probably don't want to hear this.

...please humor me, what are you basing this on?...Browns are the
only modern era expansion team that is not doing that great and even
they won and went to the playoffs in their 4th year

LBC_Justin
09-10-2005, 03:03 PM
...please humor me, what are you basing this on?...Browns are the
only modern era expansion team that is not doing that great and even
they won and went to the playoffs in their 4th year
Substained success. No expansion team has ever achieved it.

Key factors:
-Players don't want to play for expansion teams as much as the want to play for historic franchises ie Greenbay, Pittsburgh. No history, smaller fan base, less press coverage etc.

-Drafting and developing talent is one of the cheapest ways to win. As an expansion team your "tree" does not begin to show "fruit" for several years. So the only way to get good players is to buy them. Ala the Panters and Jags. Then you get killed by the salary cap and enjoy a half decade of losing like the Jags did. A balance of Free Agents and lots of in-house developed talent is required for your team to be successful.

PS the Jags and Panthers are past the Expansion cycle. Browns managment was indecisive and didn't stick to their plan so they have started over a several occasions.

I had lunch with Charley Casserly in 2001 and he was explaining all of this in great detail. (No, I am not a big shot. I was one of several people at this lunch. I don't know him personally) It was actually kind of funny, He said in the first year your are going to say.."Wow this stadium is nice.".....In the second year you are going to say..."Boy am I a glad we have a team again.".....In the third year you are going to say..."Wow look at those cheerleader and boy this stadium is awesome.".......the fourth year you are going to say..."lets play some FOOTBALL!!!" (Keep in mind this was back in 2001)

tsip
09-10-2005, 03:10 PM
"PS the Jags and Panthers are past the Expansion cycle. Browns managment was indecisive and didn't stick to their plan so they have started over a several occasions."

Your post makes no sense since the Jags and Panthers were winners
early in your cycle and still are, though Panthers lost last year despite
being in the SB yr before and are projected to win in'05

bckey
09-10-2005, 03:17 PM
Being an expansion team will affect you for about 1 career cycle. Roughly 8-12 years. After that, no excuses, because you should be stocked with your past draft picks and chosen talent.


Here we go. 8-12 years now. Preparing the excuses early this year.

tsip
09-10-2005, 03:31 PM
Too, no coach in the modern era of expansion has lasted 8-12 yrs,
which means everything starts over with the new head coach--sorry,
but I'm of the opinion sooner than later

thegr8fan
09-10-2005, 03:49 PM
no coach in the modern era of expansion has lasted 8-12 yrs

Coach Cowers of the Steelers, to name one off the top of my head, might not agree with you, tsip.

the fourth year you are going to say..."lets play some FOOTBALL!!!" that I can agree with. Not sure where the 8-12 years analogy fits in with that idea though. I would say 4-6 to get your talent level and backup players in place to at least be a contender on the field with any other football team.

that is where the Texans are today, IMHO, legit contenders with the talent level equal to most other teams in the NFL, overall. It is also where the plan has been from the beginning to build the Texans to. Including building them to be a 3-4 Defense. In retrospect, that might have been a decision that was ahead of it's time, since in 2002 there were only about 3 teams that used the 3-4 Defense. And recently there have been a few more teams that have converted over to it, most recently the Cowboys this year.

It still takes time to draft and develop the team, no matter what D you play. since the Cowboys are converting to a 3-4 this year, lets look at them and see how well that works out, or how many years it takes to actually get the players and personnel to do it.

I personally am glad we decided to go with a 3-4, and we decided that in 2002. I think this year our D will be a top D in the league and we finally have all the pieces in place.

Fiddy
09-10-2005, 03:49 PM
Too, no coach in the modern era of expansion has lasted 8-12 yrs... If you are talking about a coach not lasting for 8-12 seasons with an expansion team, that is true. But in this era, it has happened: Mike Shanahan and, as thegr8fan said, Bill Cowher.

ATX
09-10-2005, 04:11 PM
and Jeff Fisher don't forget

ATX
09-10-2005, 04:15 PM
I believe it was better to run the 3-4 even though we didn't have the personel to run it as effectively as we could the first 3 years. This is how i see it. Who do we have on our team that started out in the 3-4? Payne, Walker, Wong, and Coleman. The first 3 I mentioned are better off now after playing 3 years in the 3-4 , than if they would have been if we played the 4-3 for the first 3 years. We'd be starting a new defense this year with everybody learning new positions. IMO it's better to let them learn the first few years in the 3-4 than to change the defensive scheme after 2-3 years.

tsip
09-10-2005, 04:27 PM
"Coach Cowers of the Steelers"

Sorry, we were talking about expansion teams so Cowher,Fisher, and
Shanahan don't qualify

tsip
09-10-2005, 04:32 PM
I believe it was better to run the 3-4 even though we didn't have the personel to run it as effectively as we could the first 3 years. This is how i see it. Who do we have on our team that started out in the 3-4? Payne, Walker, Wong, and Coleman. The first 3 I mentioned are better off now after playing 3 years in the 3-4 , than if they would have been if we played the 4-3 for the first 3 years. We'd be starting a new defense this year with everybody learning new positions. IMO it's better to let them learn the first few years in the 3-4 than to change the defensive scheme after 2-3 years.

Interesting, because Belechik coaches for this year and winning this
year and puts a defense/offense on the field thats suited for the players
he has right now as oppose to players he may have next year or the
year after or 8-12 yrs down the road

powda
09-10-2005, 04:36 PM
Lbc brings up good points though i dont agree with his timetable...i'd immagine we wont see the last lingering effects of being an expansion team till year 7 or so...

we've focused on upgrading starters ,but as evidenced by the preseason every year our 2nd teamers arent on par with the rest of the league. sure at particular positions we do ok ,but as a whole our depth is not there.

- we have had a need to develop our own talent via the draft for 2 reasons :

a) as Lbc mentioned we have no history and there is a natural stigma about playing for an expansion team. good players in the free agent market want a ring...we cant promise that when we cant even produce a .500 season.

b) free agent impact on the cap. every year a standard contract escalates much like the nfl draft slotting. what was reasonable money last year is no longer sufficient. we didnt have the luxury of haveing key players signed at various times of their contracts. for the most part we had to start from square 1 (excluding expansion draft players who were actually overpaid anyway). starting into year 4 this is finally starting to balance out a little ,but it was a serious consideration early on. you dont have to look much farther then the panthers and the jags to see what im getting at. i think casserly has managed this aspect well.

i do think the decision to go with a 3-4 defense was ahead of its time. not only was it something unique (well almost unique) for the team at the time ,but more importantly it gave us an avenue to aquire late round talent on defense. only a couple years ago 3-4 types (tweeners and the linemen) routinely slipped a bit in the draft. considering we focused on offense mostly in our 1st drafts we still had a chance to get that late round jewel because of the skill sets we required on defense.

im also a firm believer that a personel mistake hurts far more as an expansion team. when this team was being made the ol was allegedly the strength of our team...bosseli, mckinney, young...for various reasons none of them have ever panned out...year 4...guess what we're still lacking...

Corrosion
09-10-2005, 04:45 PM
I think Capers is Un-Willing to vary from his system if its working or not ....He's gonna run the ball up the gut on offense and he's gonna play the 3-4 defense period .... accept in nickle situations.

The ability to make adjustments is totally lost on Capers and his staff ....

The good coaches make adjustments on the fly , take for example the Raiders Vs. Patriots game Thrusday night . The Patriots couldnt stop the run in their base 3-4 and Bill Belichick went to a 4-3 to stop it . That change slowed down the Raiders running game , left them in obvious passing downs and effectively won the game for the Patriots . Those kind of adjustments are why Belichick coached teams win football games . His players dont just buy into his system they buy into everything the man says .....

ATX
09-10-2005, 04:49 PM
Interesting, because Belechik coaches for this year and winning this
year and puts a defense/offense on the field thats suited for the players
he has right now as oppose to players he may have next year or the
year after or 8-12 yrs down the road


Bill Belichik has had a superbowl contending team for a long time. Capers has yet to have a playoff team here in Houston. You can't just expect to go out and win it all your first few years. Ask Capers, he was in the NFC championship game his second year with Carolina. what happened after that. It's all been answered in previous posts. Cass and Capers are building this team to be a consistent winner instead of a one hit wonder like the Panthers were. Don't let the 8-12 year thing fool you. I don't think that was accurate. Most Texans fans can accept the the first few years as our expansion years. Now is the time to see what we're made of, I can't wait.

LBC_Justin
09-10-2005, 05:16 PM
Let me clear up the 8-12 year thing. I am not saying we are going to be an expansion team for 8-12 years. I am saying that the Texans will see SOME lingering affects(may be real small stuff) of being an expansion team for that long.

First few years lots of holes.
Next few years decent first team but minimal depth.
Eventally the depth fills in.

In my opinion the Expansion Excuse is good for this year and that is it.

edo783
09-10-2005, 05:26 PM
I think the key point in LBCs theory was "Winning Consistantly" ie. the Pats, Eagles, Stealers etc. In that context that sort of time table makes sense. Depth is a MAJOR reason they all win year in and year out. Good drafting creats depth and starters are then home grown and you don't have to jump at every big name FA that come available as some are want to do.

tsip
09-10-2005, 06:20 PM
I think the key point in LBCs theory was "Winning Consistantly" ie. the Pats, Eagles, Stealers etc. In that context that sort of time table makes sense. Depth is a MAJOR reason they all win year in and year out. Good drafting creats depth and starters are then home grown and you don't have to jump at every big name FA that come available as some are want to do.

did you know the pats have over 20 free agents?

run-david-run
09-10-2005, 07:02 PM
did you know the pats have over 20 free agents?

But who is the last guy they signed for a big money contract? Obviously they had Correy Dillon last year in free-agency, but he wasn't paid a ridiculous amount of money.

tsip
09-10-2005, 07:22 PM
But who is the last guy they signed for a big money contract? Obviously they had Correy Dillon last year in free-agency, but he wasn't paid a ridiculous amount of money.

a free agent is a free agent is a free agent --next excuse will be their hair is
the wrong color---wow, if excuses would only translate into wins :pigfly:

powda
09-10-2005, 07:29 PM
did you know the pats have over 20 free agents?


provide a link.

if a free agent is a free agent is a free agent then should we be counting people like lewis sanders and even undrafted free agents?

i just went through the texans roster and counted at least 25 guys who werent drafted in the expansion or the collegiate draft...does that count?

and i dont get you...your arrguing capers should get the axe because he dosent do things exactly like belicheck? lets get things back on track.

Hervoyel
09-10-2005, 07:37 PM
In 2002, 2003 and 2004 we did not have the personnel to "properly" run either the 3-4 or the 4-3 defense so don't get too wound up over Capers statement. From the very start we were closest to having the players to run the 3-4 and that was by design. In the expansion draft they took Payne and Walker who were 2/3 of the defensive line we needed for example.

Don't get all excited when he says they have the people to run it now. A lot of that remains to be seen. The secondary will have it's ups and downs but overall they're going to be pretty good. Will the linebacker moves pay off? Will the defensive line be able to pull it's share of the weight this year? Those are the questions that keep me up late. If the answer is "yes" then ok, we have the personnel to run the 3-4 now. If Greenwood stinks it up or Robaire Smith keeps playing soft like most of last season then we're not going to be very good and they'll keep tinkering with it.

But we were always much farther away from having 4-3 personnel than 3-4.

tsip
09-10-2005, 07:56 PM
provide a link.

if a free agent is a free agent is a free agent then should we be counting people like lewis sanders and even undrafted free agents?

i just went through the texans roster and counted at least 25 guys who werent drafted in the expansion or the collegiate draft...does that count?

and i dont get you...your arrguing capers should get the axe because he dosent do things exactly like belicheck? lets get things back on track.

where did I say axe Capers? I'm just comparing some things the winning
SB coach does and-just once in a while-the :homer: could ask their
fellow buddies to back up their post, adds to credibility

tsip
09-10-2005, 08:06 PM
provide a link.

if a free agent is a free agent is a free agent then should we be counting people like lewis sanders and even undrafted free agents?

i just went through the texans roster and counted at least 25 guys who werent drafted in the expansion or the collegiate draft...does that count?

and i dont get you...your arrguing capers should get the axe because he dosent do things exactly like belicheck? lets get things back on track.

http://www.patriots.com/team/index.cfm?ac=Rosters&Print=yes

many posters keep making the pont that to win, you have to go through
the draft w/few free agents--and, no, it doesn't matter what type of
free agent...actually, Patriots list 22 free agents on their roster

So, if the Texans have 25 free agents (please provide proof/list) what is
the big point that it's going to take longer to win because we are doing
it differently?

powda
09-10-2005, 08:10 PM
where did I say axe Capers?


Too, no coach in the modern era of expansion has lasted 8-12 yrs,which means everything starts over with the new head coach--sorry,but I'm of the opinion sooner than later

so what should i infer?


and i dont get you...your arrguing capers should get the axe because he dosent do things exactly like belicheck?

you might read that again and notice this time it was a question...(hence the sentence followed by a question mark)

tsip
09-10-2005, 08:31 PM
so what should i infer?



you might read that again and notice this time it was a question...(hence the sentence followed by a question mark)

Another poster mentioned the 8-12 yrs w/o ever backing that point up.
I mentioned the only recent expansion teams as a reference that it has
not taken other teams that long--in fact these other teams won and fired
their 1st head coaches within 8 yrs, let alone 12. So, where's the proof/
link for that :homer: post?

Too, I choose to compare Capers to the best Coach in football because
their styles/philosophies are so different and Belechik is a consistent
winning coach and Capers is not.

Now, I've answered your questions, please answer mine...

powda
09-10-2005, 08:58 PM
I mentioned the only recent expansion teams as a reference that it has not taken other teams that long--in fact these other teams won and fired their 1st head coaches within 8 yrs, let alone 12.

a)your comparing teams who had diffrent bennifits when they started.

b)those teams fired their head coach for a reason...instant success followed by a gutter run...why? because of poor cap managment. your own quote only makes your arrgument look worse........if they had been doing something right wouldnt those head coaches still be there?

the formulas in the making of those teams was flawed. in hindsight that should be pretty obvious. i credit casserly for taking the slower unbeaten path.


Too, I choose to compare Capers to the best Coach in football because their styles/philosophies are so different and Belechik is a consistent
winning coach and Capers is not.


belechik was not a consistent winner with the browns. and their philosophies arent all that diffrent...both conservative, disciplinarian, 3-4 pundits. if anything you could arrgue capers is closer to being belechik then the majority of the other coaches in the nfl. and yet you choose to be critical. surprise.


Now, I've answered your questions, please answer mine...

i'll let you do your own math...but i was kind enough to provide ample lists...


(expansion draft) http://football.about.com/library/weekly/bl_expansiondraft.htm

1 Tony Boselli OT Jaguars $6.89 million
2 Ryan Young OT Jets $563,000
3 Aaron Glenn CB Jets $8.01 million
4 Gary Walker DT Jaguars $5.25 million
5 Jamie Sharper LB Ravens $2.88 million
6 Jermaine Lewis WR Ravens $4.29 million
7 Marcus Coleman CB Jets $5.48 million
8 Seth Payne DT Jaguars $2.78 million
9 Matt Campbell OG Redskins $875,000
10 Matt Stevens S Patriots $565,000
11 Jeremy McKinney OG Browns $405,760
12 Ryan Schau OT Eagles $563,000
13 Charlie Rogers RB Seahawks $563,000
14 Sean McDermott TE Buccaneers $300,000
15 Jabari Issa DE Cardinals $397,000
16 Avion Black WR Bills $460,000
17 Danny Wuerffel QB Bears $556,000
18 Brian Allen LB Rams $452,000
19 Johnny Huggins TE Cowboys $300,000

2002 draft http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2002/draft/teams/hou.html

1 1 David Carr QB Fresno St.
2 33 Jabar Gaffney WR Florida
2 50 Chester Pitts OG San Diego St.
3 66 Fred Weary C Tennessee
3 83 Charles Hill DT Maryland
4 99 Jonathan Wells HB Ohio St.
5 136 Jarrod Baxter FB New Mexico
5 153 Ramone Walker S Pittsburgh
6 173 Howard Faggins CB Kansas St.
6 190 Howard Green DT LSU
7 229 Greg White DE Minnesota
7 261 Ahmad Miller DT UNLV

2003 draft http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2003/draft/teams/texans.html

1 3(3) Andre Johnson* WR Miami (FL)
2 9(41) Bennie Joppru TE Michigan
3 3(67) Antwan Peek OLB Cincinnati
3 11(75) Seth Wand OT NW Missouri St.
3 24(88) Dave Ragone QB Louisville
4 4(101) Domanick Davis HB LSU
6 19(192) Drew Henson* QB Michigan
6 41(214) Keith Wright DE Missouri
7 3(217) Curry Burns S Louisville
7 19(233) Chance Pearce C Texas A&M

2004 draft http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2004/draft/teams/texans.html

1 10(10) Dunta Robinson CB South Carolina
1 27(27) Jason Babin DE W. Michigan
4 26(122) Glenn Earl S Notre Dame
6 5(170) Vontez Duff CB Notre Dame
6 10(175) Jammal Lord RB Nebraska
6 35(200) Charlie Anderson DE Ole Miss
7 9(210) Raheem Orr DE Rutgers
7 10(211) Sloan Thomas WR Texas
7 47(248) B.J. Symons QB Texas Tech

2005 draft http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2005/draft/teams/texans.html

1 16(16) Travis Johnson DT Florida St.
3 9(73) Vernand Morency HB Oklahoma St.
4 13(114) Jerome Mathis WR Hampton
5 15(151) Drew Hodgdon C Arizona St.
6 14(188) C.C. Brown S La. Lafayette
7 13(227) Kenneth Pettway OLB Grambling

And lest we forget the supp drafts

http://www.nfl.com/teams/story/HOU/5753006

(milford brown)

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/6452668

(tony hollings)

To be compared against something a bit more current:

http://www.houstontexans.com/team/roster.php

And despite all my effort in providing that for you I think its a bit counter productive to be critical of the team if they draft well and spend less on free agents...what you should be gathering from that statement is affordable-productive-youth is worth more then overpaid-retread players schooled in someone else’s pro offense or defense. of course talent is talent and good players become available from time to time in the free agent market ,but at what price? you don’t stretch the budget to have a competitive team----NOT IN THE BUILDING PROCESS. you keep the team cap manageable until they’re ready for a real run at the playoffs and then seek that extra 2-3 players on the free agent market.

tsip
09-10-2005, 09:23 PM
I'm out of time but here are a couple points I'll catch up on later-

(1) draft well---we don't know that yet
(2) Belechik and Capers alike???--have some good stuff for this one
(3) for example--Jags were in the playoffs for something like 3 or 4
of Coughlin's 6years and had a winning record when he left

...back later

LBC_Justin
09-10-2005, 10:06 PM
I'm out of time but here are a couple points I'll catch up on later-

(1) draft well---we don't know that yet
(2) Belechik and Capers alike???--have some good stuff for this one
(3) for example--Jags were in the playoffs for something like 3 or 4
of Coughlin's 6years and had a winning record when he left

...back later

Even though they had a winning team for 3-4 years they built it all wrong. You don't build your winning team if it is going to fall apart(Because of Poor Cap Mngt) and lead to 1/2 a decade of losing seasons.

powda
09-10-2005, 10:12 PM
(1) draft well---we don't know that yet


no we dont. the basis for my comments were that was our building philosophy contrary to both the jags and the panthers. as such, the building process of the texans should be held in diffrent regard.


(3) for example--Jags were in the playoffs for something like 3 or 4 of Coughlin's 6years and had a winning record when he left


the jags havent had a sniff of the playoffs since 1999. their playoff run yeilded an astonishing .500 record. they were fortunate not only to begin with more beniffits then the texans had but also to start at the begining of the free agency era when teams had yet to learn how to hold onto their players. their cap was handled so horrifically infact that in the 2002 expansion draft they still had to look to a division rival to help them alleviate their troubles. (thank you for walker and payne).

10 years

2 head coachs

no superbowl rings

do you think they made all the right decisions?

you can bash the texans as often as you like about a lack of free agency signings...but all you have to do is look at the redskins to know success is more then ink on paper.

tsip
09-11-2005, 12:59 AM
"Even though they had a winning team for 3-4 years they built it all wrong. You don't build your winning team if it is going to fall apart(Because of Poor Cap Mngt) and lead to 1/2 a decade of losing seasons"

How many teams have won for 10 years straight?
How many teams have won, then lost, then retooled in the past decade?

...include a few more decades...and how many teams had to get use to the
cap issue?
...finally, I'm so glad that--according to you--once we start winning
(whenever that will be), we will continue to win forever and ever! :drool:

SESupergenius
09-11-2005, 02:03 AM
Hey if you have the blueprint to bring an expansion team in the Superbowl with the 1st few year let us all know. And please do go mortgaging your future like most teams have done.

HJam72
09-11-2005, 02:32 AM
10 years

2 head coachs

no superbowl rings



I'm afraid that may be us in about 6 yrs. :um:

tsip
09-11-2005, 03:00 AM
Hey if you have the blueprint to bring an expansion team in the Superbowl with the 1st few year let us all know. And please do go mortgaging your future like most teams have done.

...you people want something that does not exist in the NFL, a team
that wins every year-goes to the playoffs-and wins the SB...please explain
how this team is going to do that

powda
09-11-2005, 07:17 AM
How many teams have won for 10 years straight?
How many teams have won, then lost, then retooled in the past decade?


hey, in case you hadnt noticed the ultimate goal isnt just making the playoffs...we dont all just stop everything then and quit with smiles on our face. the ultimate goal isnt even being in the superbowl.

its being the supebowl champ.

everything else is second best...

now ive looked over and over again and i cant seem to find a place thats says the jags have ever won a superbowl...

http://www.superbowlchamps.net/

(jags? not there!)

HJam72
09-11-2005, 09:09 AM
Nevermind, it was dumb. :)

tsip
09-11-2005, 05:32 PM
"Being an expansion team will affect you for about 1 career cycle. Roughly 8-12 years. After that, no excuses, because you should be stocked with your past draft picks and chosen talent."

I see your point, now, but I don't think 12 yrs will help Capers/Palmer