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run-david-run
09-05-2005, 01:36 PM
As of right now on the depth chart, Gafney is listed as the #2 wide reciver. I think this could be Gaffney's last year to prove himself worthy of a second round pick. Also, if Bradford is in the slot we might get some good matchu-ups with him going deep against a nickle corner or a saftey. Maybe not....Well, atleast BRadford isn't strating....

Grid
09-05-2005, 01:37 PM
Maybe this means we will be lining up Armstrong in the slot.

Bradford did put up a pretty dismal performance.. and with our new "timing route offense".. a receiver like gaffney who can run precise routes would be of bigger benefit at #2 than a speedster like Bradford..imo.

Texas
09-05-2005, 02:12 PM
Thank god. I'd also like to see Mathis up there at 3 ahead of bradford

Fiddy
09-05-2005, 02:23 PM
We run 3-WR sets so whoever is listed as the number 2 and 3 WR doesnt matter.

Gaff has proven a simple fact: A WR needs to be thrown the ball to make plays. When Gaff is thrown the ball, see Tampa Bay in preseason, see Chicago last season, he can make incrediable catches and gets first downs and move the ball consistentley. Gaff wont be able to 'prove' himself to yall until Carr 'proves' to some of us that he can read a defense and stop with the quick reads and automatic dumps to Davis. Gaff has gotten open over the last 2 years, it's time for Carr to give him the ball.

ThaShark316
09-05-2005, 02:24 PM
If this "timing route offense" works wonders....Imagine this....


Carr back to pass...PUMP FAKES....throws deep..caught by Johnson!...etc.

Point is, if its killing defenses, it can open it up for the deep ball.

aj.
09-05-2005, 03:38 PM
We may see another reason why they kept Armstrong in about 4 months.

Gaffney will be eligible for UFA after this season if he stays healthy and is active for the requisite number of games.

Gaffney's agent is Drew R. If Drew gets stupid with Gaff's contract demands (totally possible) and he is not signable, then the Texans will have another possession recevier with similar skills as Gaffney waiting in the wings (Armstrong).

The reason I bring this up is because I haven't heard anything about a Gaff contract extension in the works. It could all be going on behind closed doors - this is all just speculation - but I could see it happening.

Armstrong will be eligible for UFA at the end of this season but he will be a bit more affordable than Gaffney and easier to re-sign. There's not a huge gap talent-wise between the two, so you keep the guy who will cost less.

HJam72
09-05-2005, 08:58 PM
Thank god. I'd also like to see Mathis up there at 3 ahead of bradford

My thoughts, exactly. Bench Bradford.

run-david-run
09-05-2005, 09:44 PM
Not when I looked.....

Rightnow
09-05-2005, 09:50 PM
I think Bradford will be better in the slot. He is fast and no line backer and most nickle corners won't be able to keep up with him.

I foresee Mathis being number two next year and Gaf number 3 and Armstrong number 4.

:texans: :texans: :texans:

HardKnockTexan
09-06-2005, 11:18 AM
When the Texans have gone with a 3 WR set it has been AJ in the slot for the most part. This is something new that Palmer is trying to create mismatches and get Andre open more often. The #2 and #3 WR's have been on the corners and AJ has been roaming the middle.

rmartin65
09-06-2005, 02:11 PM
i like mathis starting in the slot, then moving to the #2 spot in week 12 or something

eriadoc
09-07-2005, 01:04 PM
I find it interesting how the outlook on Gaffney is so grim in this town. The guy is a legitimate #2 WR, but most people fail to recognize it. He had more YPC than either AJ or Bradford last year and had a higher percentage of catches-to-targets than either of them. The problem is the fact that he doesn't get targeted as often as he should. Maybe Gaffney's just not the next great thing, like Mathis, but take a look at his numbers and you cannot argue his productivity. He has been productive with the opportunities given.

Vinny
09-07-2005, 01:49 PM
Part of Gaffney's problem is that so many folks seem to want to cover Carr's flaws by making excuses for him at every turn by pinning the blame on players that are hard to grade tangibly by the fans. According to the bulk of the fan base it has to be either the line's fault or the WR's fault that David can't find his WR2. Gaffney is very underappreciated by the fans here in Houston.

El Tejano
09-07-2005, 02:18 PM
I second that. I always thought that our offense seems to be at its finest when Gaff is given the opportunity to make plays. Games that come to mind are, Miami, KC in KC, in Tenn, Oakland, Chicago. I think we will see an extremely rejuvenated Gaffney though. Even team leader esque!

humbleone
09-07-2005, 02:29 PM
Part of Gaffney's problem is that so many folks seem to want to cover Carr's flaws by making excuses for him at every turn by pinning the blame on players that are hard to grade tangibly by the fans. According to the bulk of the fan base it has to be either the line's fault or the WR's fault that David can't find his WR2. Gaffney is very underappreciated by the fans here in Houston.

Well said Vinny...Gaffney is underappreciated by some (perhaps many) of the fans but by no means all of us. He has turned out to be a terrific pick with a "2" IMO and should do nothing but get better for the next few years...he just needs more balls thrown his way and yes a lot of that does fall onto Carr's/Palmer's shoulders for being too quick to settle for the dump off to DD instead of going to Gaffney.

ledzeppelin229
09-07-2005, 07:56 PM
Gaffney drops balls, I question his hands and his inability to catch Carr's rockets. Everything has to be between the numbers or he coughs it up.

For godsakes! Did everybody forgot "the gaff"!? I mean come on the guy runs in the endzone and before he crosses the line, he bubbles the ball and nobody touched him.

Is that first part a joke post? Armstrong might be the only person on the team with better hands than Gaffney and even then it's pretty close.

That was an isolated mental error and I'm pretty sure it was a strong lesson. Not to mention we still won the game so it can be forgiven a little easier.

southtexan
09-07-2005, 08:27 PM
Gaffney drops balls, I question his hands and his inability to catch Carr's rockets. Everything has to be between the numbers or he coughs it up.

For godsakes! Did everybody forgot "the gaff"!? I mean come on the guy runs in the endzone and before he crosses the line, he bubbles the ball and nobody touched him.
You sure sound like my wife, I do something wrong one time and she claims that I always do it wrong.

Fiddy
09-07-2005, 09:05 PM
Gaffney drops balls, I question his hands and his inability to catch Carr's rockets. Everything has to be between the numbers or he coughs it up. He has the best hands on the team.

Holden135
09-07-2005, 09:56 PM
I think Gaff's last preseason game locked up his #2 spot. I had no doubt that he would at some time this season go back to the #2 spot it was just a matter of how he played after the injury. Well he was really the only bright spot from the game with the Bucs and i am excited to see him take some pressure off of AJ. I believe we will have a variety of #3 receivers on sunday. I think Bradford, Mathis and even Armstrong will all get playing time. Bradford i think will be the one on the hot seat coming into the season. The #3 spot is still up for grabs. The fact that AJ will be moving around (left, right, and slot) also gives me further reason to believe that we will have a variety of wr lineups over the course of the game.

infantrycak
09-08-2005, 07:57 AM
Gaffney drops balls, I question his hands and his inability to catch Carr's rockets. Everything has to be between the numbers or he coughs it up.

Well you have already taken some heat for this comment, but heck it was so far off base it deserves a little more.

In the last two years Gaffney has dropped 2 of 125 balls directed toward him--about 1.8%. In the same time period Randy Moss has dropped 13 of 257--about 5%. I guess that either makes Moss Sir Dropsalot or makes Gaffney Spiderman--either way, Gaffney's hands are not an issue.

As an aside, I couldn't believe I came back to the MB after the Bucs game and no one was complimenting his one handed falling away sideline catch. If AJ, Moss, TO, Roy Williams, etc. had made that catch it would have been all over Sportscenter. The problem with Gaff is he needs to be thrown to more not less.

HJam72
09-08-2005, 08:18 AM
At least we know what he's been drinking too much of, lol.

Doom Capers
09-08-2005, 09:36 AM
I liked Gaf. a lot better when he was our slot guy. He got the ball a lot more and got us a ton of first downs.

Vinny
09-08-2005, 11:36 AM
As an aside, I couldn't believe I came back to the MB after the Bucs game and no one was complimenting his one handed falling away sideline catch. If AJ, Moss, TO, Roy Williams, etc. had made that catch it would have been all over Sportscenter. The problem with Gaff is he needs to be thrown to more not less.I believe it. It would hurt too many weak arguments that Carr doesn't have people to throw to. The sad truth is that many of these flamer poster guys don't know what they are looking at. Gaffney had 3 first down catches as well. He was 6th in the NFL in converting catches to 1st downs last year. He is very unappreciated by our fan base.

Last season, Gaffney finished sixth in the league for converting 82.9 percent of his receptions into first downs.
http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/sports/fb/texans/3338630

SheTexan
09-08-2005, 12:09 PM
Gee, after reading this post, with my boy Billy Miller gone, maybe I need to go out and buy myself a Gaffney shirt!! :)

For what it's worth, I am happy to hear some positive remarks about Gaff. He has been a fav of mine!

BigBull17
09-08-2005, 12:17 PM
My thoughts, exactly. Bench Bradford.
No he should have been cut and Sloan Thomas or Swinton should be on the roster....GRRR

Fiddy
09-08-2005, 02:19 PM
No he should have been cut and Sloan Thomas or Swinton should be on the roster....GRRR You mean the Sloan Thomas who hasnt been picked up by any of the other 31 teams in the NFL???

Fiddy
09-08-2005, 02:26 PM
In the last two years Gaffney has dropped 2 of 125 balls directed toward him--about 1.8%. In the same time period Randy Moss has dropped 13 of 257--about 5%. And to go a little further into that, Texans QBs have attempted 905 passes over the last 2 years. (If I am doing my math right) That means that Gaff gets a pass his way only once every about 7.4th pass. That is a pitiful ratio.

(just changed it, did the math wrong...)

ledzeppelin229
09-08-2005, 03:06 PM
And to go a little further into that, Texans QBs have attempted 905 passes over the last 2 years. (If I am doing my math right) That means that Gaff gets a pass his way only once every about 7.4th pass. That is a pitiful ratio.

(just changed it, did the math wrong...)

What are the numbers for DD? He probably gets about half of those. AJ probably gets the other half. Then the last one is usually left for Gaff/Armstrong/Bradford.

edo783
09-08-2005, 04:17 PM
Gaff is a VERY good WR. The only question I have about him is does he have enough speed to be the #2. My take at this point is....No. He is close to it, but no cigar IMO. Very good #3 though. Can he work at #2..yes, until a true #2 comes around. Perhaps that will be Mathis, hard to tell at this point. He definatly needs more balls tossed his way though.

Vinny
09-08-2005, 04:19 PM
What are the numbers for DD? He probably gets about half of those. AJ probably gets the other half. Then the last one is usually left for Gaff/Armstrong/Bradford.I got this stat from Junior at Texanstalk but when Dom catches 6 or more passes in a game they are 1-8 in those games. I saw Fiddy post something similar last year so I think it's probably right or close at least. When teams zone us in a cover 2 and give us the dump pass we usually struggle. Teams tend to give up the short dump because Dom rarely scores on them and it is easy to contain. They make you earn the other passes.

ledzeppelin229
09-08-2005, 05:26 PM
I got this stat from Junior at Texanstalk but when Dom catches 6 or more passes in a game they are 1-8 in those games. I saw Fiddy post something similar last year so I think it's probably right or close at least. When teams zone us in a cover 2 and give us the dump pass we usually struggle. Teams tend to give up the short dump because Dom rarely scores on them and it is easy to contain. They make you earn the other passes.

Yea, I remember Fiddy pulling that stat out last season. The team has the ability to pass on just about anyone as long as Carr gets the ball to the receivers. What they did in such a short time against Minnesota should have been proof of that.

This kind of reminds me of the team at my old HS. It was always option, option, blah blah over and over again. Then one game they got pretty far behind, like 17 with less than a quarter left and had to start throwing it. The QB put some trust in his receivers and threw the ball well enough that they ended up winning the game. Of course next game I think they went back to same old option left and option right over and over.

Houston has the players to keep opposing defenses awake at night but the way they gameplan the offense isn't scaring anyone, like you said about DD being pretty easy to contain. I think if the team was more consistent the dumps wouldn't be an issue, but it takes so long to get down the field on 6-7 yard plays that eventually the team stalls.

Fiddy
09-08-2005, 05:35 PM
When teams zone us in a cover 2 and give us the dump pass we usually struggle. Teams tend to give up the short dump because Dom rarely scores on them and it is easy to contain. They make you earn the other passes. And Davis wasnt in the Tampa Bay game (a Cover 2 team) this preseason to take the dump down passes, and Carr was forced to think and struggled mightily.

ledzeppelin229
09-08-2005, 05:52 PM
And Davis wasnt in the Tampa Bay game (a Cover 2 team) this preseason to take the dump down passes, and Carr was forced to think and struggled mightily.

He struggled, but to me it didn't seem like there was a whole lot of thinking involved at all. The routes were pretty much pre-determined and Carr tried forcing it in while the DB was just sitting on it. Of course if DD was in he might have done the safe thing instead of forcing it to Bradford.

Carr didn't seem to have any patience in the game.