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View Full Version : Get off CARR'S butt!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


TexanPride#1
09-03-2005, 11:31 AM
You guys aren't fans. Bashing the starting QB. When he starts playing good you all will say I new he could do it. But for now old oiler sorry beep beep fans get a life. :texflag: Treat the team and players with respect! :texans:

vtech9
09-03-2005, 12:09 PM
You guys aren't fans. Bashing the starting QB. When he starts playing good you all will say I new he could do it. But for now old oiler sorry beep beep fans get a life. :texflag: Treat the team and players with respect! :texans:
I haven't read any of the posts for the last few days, so I'm not sure what you are talking about. I watched the game on replay yesterday, and from what I saw, Carr has regressed. He stared down his WR's(something he has been berated for each year), had 2 ints out of his 5 passes(if it wasn't for AJ coming back for the ball it would have been 3 ints),and overall, looked like he wasn't ready to play. I have confidence that he can correct these things and become the great QB that people believed he could be coming out of college.

As it stands now, Ragone LOOKS to be the best QB we have. He has been looking off defenders, not making stupid mistakes, and overall, been pretty efficient. I'm not saying he should be starting, because Carr is our guy, but IMHO, he has beat out Banks for the 2nd. I have confidence in him, and that's something I don't have for Banks. Just my opinion.

ATX
09-03-2005, 12:13 PM
Most of this is all just typical preseason fan talk. Carr has looked very unimpressive the last 2 pre-season games, but i have confidence he'll improve this season just like he has the past 3 seasons. I think we're all just waiting for some real football to begin, don't worry though, 8 days left to see the real deal for us. Go Texans :texflag:

Kaiser Toro
09-03-2005, 12:41 PM
The last three years I was not on his butt, because he was on it to much. The nature of a message board is alomst like a microcosm of a market. People are buying the O line and selling Carr right now.

It looks like people who were dumping on the line are now neutral, beacuse it has performed much better in the pre season. Whether it is because of shorter drops in the pocket, new schemes, personell I do not care I just glad it looks better.

That takes us to Carr, who has no excuse for the amount of money we pay if the O line continues this positive track. Plain and simple this is someones make or break year.

Maybe Carr needs to take attitude of Rowdy Roddy Piper's character from the movie They Live - "I came here to chew bubble gum and kick butt. And I am all out of bubble gum." :texflag:

dredge
09-03-2005, 01:14 PM
Whether it is Carr's fault or just a result of a inefficient offense, the results aren't great. They were the 27th rated offense last year (going by memory) and whom did they add this year? Victor Riley. That should make it all better.

Carr will have trouble producing with this current roster. He will have some good weeks, but overall I cannot see him doing great things now. I hope they get him the tools to succeed, and then we can judge him more fairly.

bckey
09-03-2005, 01:39 PM
You guys aren't fans. Bashing the starting QB. When he starts playing good you all will say I new he could do it. But for now old oiler sorry beep beep fans get a life. :texflag: Treat the team and players with respect! :texans:


Here we go with I'm a real fan and your not. :rolleyes:

Crank_It_Up
09-03-2005, 02:19 PM
You guys aren't fans. Bashing the starting QB. When he starts playing good you all will say I new he could do it. But for now old oiler sorry beep beep fans get a life. :texflag: Treat the team and players with respect! :texans:hmm... do you have something against old oiler fans?

tsip
09-03-2005, 02:28 PM
'respect! '

...you don't GIVE respect, you earn it

GP
09-03-2005, 03:43 PM
Yeah, the standard "I'm a real fan and you're not" post is classic.

It goes wayyyy back to the beginning of this board several years ago.

Anyway, I will get off his butt when his daddy reads all these posts and tells his son that the David Carr fan club is dwindling every week.

Nobody deserves anything but honesty. And honesty is the best policy. So, the truth here is that Carr has had more time to throw and it looks like he doesn't know how to stand within the pocket and check off and look off receivers.

Ragone is showing he knows how to do it. I smell a potential QB controversy brewing, and if Carr doesn't get it together--Oh, I'm sorry....if "we" don't get it together--then "we" might get a much-deserved benching.

But maybe "we" can do a lot better and turn the light switch on now that "we" are playing real games and not some imaginary fantasy games that the rest of the sports call preseason games.

:respect:

DomDavis
09-03-2005, 04:10 PM
Carr was in the top half of the league's quarterbacks in only his third season while playing with a horrible offensive line, no secondary receivers and no pass-catching tight end. Yup, he's about to get a serious challenge from Dave Ragone, a third-round talent and a third-stringer who's looked decent in the preseason against third and fourth string scrubs. Carr's cowering in fear!!!!! :rolleyes:

If Carr plays poorly, he should be bashed. That doesn't make them any less of a real fan. That said, bashing someone for a poor performance in the preseason... well, I don't even know what to say. That goes far and beyond being or not being a real fan. That's just idiocy.

TopTexanFan16
09-03-2005, 04:18 PM
Yeah, the standard "I'm a real fan and you're not" post is classic.

It goes wayyyy back to the beginning of this board several years ago.

Anyway, I will get off his butt when his daddy reads all these posts and tells his son that the David Carr fan club is dwindling every week.

Nobody deserves anything but honesty. And honesty is the best policy. So, the truth here is that Carr has had more time to throw and it looks like he doesn't know how to stand within the pocket and check off and look off receivers.

Ragone is showing he knows how to do it. I smell a potential QB controversy brewing, and if Carr doesn't get it together--Oh, I'm sorry....if "we" don't get it together--then "we" might get a much-deserved benching.

But maybe "we" can do a lot better and turn the light switch on now that "we" are playing real games and not some imaginary fantasy games that the rest of the sports call preseason games.

:respect:

man i respect ur opinion but i think you're really looking to indepth into the words carr used, he said we as in everyone needs to improve including himself. and seriously i think what he meant by its not a real game meaning it doesnt count in the actual season, not as if he didnt care.

the wonger need food
09-03-2005, 05:10 PM
Carr is the "face of the franchise" and the highest paid player on the team. If he does not perform he will be criticized and deservedly so. All of his excuses have been used up in the first 3 years, now it's time to produce.

GP
09-03-2005, 05:25 PM
Do you throw the "we" around when you could have done a better job yourself? That's kind of a shield against personal responsibility, if you ask me. Not trying to attack you, just using it as an example. If you messed up at work, and told your boss that "...we just have to do a better job," what do you think he would say back to you?

Facts are facts. He said "we" and didn;t even attempt to show a little pride lost in himself and put his name up front as the team leader. It might rub off on the other slackers if Carr would take one for the team...especially since he has been the main culprit. Heck, he is the franchise QB for goodness sakes. It's not like he's Ragone who held a clipboard for so long. I didn't think ragone would make it this far, but he's been a gamer and has withstood the cat calls and has worked his rear off...and it shows.

No hurt in saying that our 3rd stringer should either be no. 2 or no. 3. Some guy named Tom Brady was a 2nd or 3rd stringer until the human statue got knocked out of a game. The rest is history.

Carr might have meant to put his name in there, too. But then again, we'll never know. Would have been a little easier on everyone if he had just swallowed his pride and continued to be the big man that we think he is. But after his performance, and the way he's throwing the "we" around (as it seems to me, at least) I can't but help to put a microscope on it and say, "What? Ragone, Swinton, and Sloan Thomas have kept us from getting skunked all preseason...and you can't sacrifice a little pride and just own up to your poor play?"

And what's wrong about all this is that Ragone will still be #3 and Swinton and Sloan Thomas might get cut. Yeah, I'm over reacting.

Too much poltics and not enough harsh reality if you ask me.

TopTexanFan16
09-03-2005, 05:31 PM
Do you throw the "we" around when you could have done a better job yourself? That's kind of a shield against personal responsibility, if you ask me. Not trying to attack you, just using it as an example. If you messed up at work, and told your boss that "...we just have to do a better job," what do you think he would say back to you?

Facts are facts. He said "we" and didn;t even attempt to show a little pride lost in himself and put his name up front as the team leader. It might rub off on the other slackers if Carr would take one for the team...especially since he has been the main culprit. Heck, he is the franchise QB for goodness sakes. It's not like he's Ragone who held a clipboard for so long. I didn't think ragone would make it this far, but he's been a gamer and has withstood the cat calls and has worked his rear off...and it shows.

No hurt in saying that our 3rd stringer should either be no. 2 or no. 3. Some guy named Tom Brady was a 2nd or 3rd stringer until the human statue got knocked out of a game. The rest is history.

Carr might have meant to put his name in there, too. But then again, we'll never know. Would have been a little easier on everyone if he had just swallowed his pride and continued to be the big man that we think he is. But after his performance, and the way he's throwing the "we" around (as it seems to me, at least) I can't but help to put a microscope on it and say, "What? Ragone, Swinton, and Sloan Thomas have kept us from getting skunked all preseason...and you can't sacrifice a little pride and just own up to your poor play?"

And what's wrong about all this is that Ragone will still be #3 and Swinton and Sloan Thomas might get cut. Yeah, I'm over reacting.

Too much poltics and not enough harsh reality if you ask me.

listen bud i really think your goin to indepth into this. i can remember countless games were after the game he has appologized ot the fans for doin a poor job, hell i remember when his own wife and children had food and beer thrown at them or somehtin of that sort and he still apologized saying he coulda done better and needs to work harder. so i think ONE time "we" as in the whole team needs to work better doesnt make him a slacker or mean he doesnt care. i feel the whole 1st team defense and offense has played very poorly this preseason but ur not crying out about anyone else playing poorly. huh? andre dropped some balls, damn him hes slacking. dunta made bad plays and missed tackles, he must think its everyone elses fault, shoot lets just release him and put sanders as the starting CB, come on man be at least a bit realistic.

GP
09-03-2005, 06:00 PM
The preseason games I have watched, which were the first three, I saw more time for Carr than I have EVER seen. You've just not paid attention to it because you're buying into the "Bash the o line all day long" daitribe that has floated around this board for three-plus years.

I saw HUGE pockets for Carr to stand in, and I saw Carr hopping around like he didn't know what to do.

As far as the beer throwing. That's just plain wrong, and I wouldn't act that way nor do I think that's the way to act.

But Carr is getting so much defense right now, and he's right there (in my opinion) in the middle of the problems. Maybe it changes next week, but right now...it just looks bad. And he'll turn the switch like he has been...and everybody will be saying "I told you so" as if that's a real comfort. We've had three years and one preseason of that stuff, and it's beginning to wear thin.

LBC_Justin
09-03-2005, 06:23 PM
Do you throw the "we" around when you could have done a better job yourself? That's kind of a shield against personal responsibility, if you ask me. Not trying to attack you, just using it as an example. If you messed up at work, and told your boss that "...we just have to do a better job," what do you think he would say back to you?

Facts are facts. He said "we" and didn;t even attempt to show a little pride lost in himself and put his name up front as the team leader. It might rub off on the other slackers if Carr would take one for the team...especially since he has been the main culprit. Heck, he is the franchise QB for goodness sakes. It's not like he's Ragone who held a clipboard for so long. I didn't think ragone would make it this far, but he's been a gamer and has withstood the cat calls and has worked his rear off...and it shows.

No hurt in saying that our 3rd stringer should either be no. 2 or no. 3. Some guy named Tom Brady was a 2nd or 3rd stringer until the human statue got knocked out of a game. The rest is history.

Carr might have meant to put his name in there, too. But then again, we'll never know. Would have been a little easier on everyone if he had just swallowed his pride and continued to be the big man that we think he is. But after his performance, and the way he's throwing the "we" around (as it seems to me, at least) I can't but help to put a microscope on it and say, "What? Ragone, Swinton, and Sloan Thomas have kept us from getting skunked all preseason...and you can't sacrifice a little pride and just own up to your poor play?"

And what's wrong about all this is that Ragone will still be #3 and Swinton and Sloan Thomas might get cut. Yeah, I'm over reacting.

Too much poltics and not enough harsh reality if you ask me.

when you give up almost 40 points the correct words for the QB to use is "WE need improvement."

Porky
09-03-2005, 07:49 PM
Right now, Carr deserves every bit of bashing he is getting. His performance Thursday night was on par with your average HS freshman playing his first game, while having the UT defense staring at you from the other side of the ball. Hello, his QB rating was ZERO. ZERO people. He deserved to go into negative numbers, but that stat doesn't call for it, although I heard they are thinking of changing that after watching the game Thursday. He STUNK! This is his fourth year, not his first. The time for excuses is past. If he doesn't pick it up in a HUGE way the first two games, I say bench his over paid arse, and put Ragone in. I never thought I would say that, but I am tired of the excuses. I really have no words strong enough to portray what I thought of his performance on Thursday. Terrible? Nah, not strong enough. Stunk? nah. Pathetic? Getting warmer. Losersville? Horid? Nope, can't come up with it yet. Someone help me here! :goodnight

Lucky
09-03-2005, 08:16 PM
Right now, Carr deserves every bit of bashing he is getting.
OK. Sure, why not. But if Carr plays well in Buffalo, what he did in Tampa means squat. By the same token, if Carr had thrown 5 TDs against the Bucs & stinks it up at Ralph Wilson Stadium, he gets bashed. So tell me, does preseason really amount to anything?

Ralph Wilson Stadium? Who names a stadium after themselves? Bud Adams wouldn't even do that (or maybe he will?).

texan279
09-03-2005, 09:10 PM
You guys aren't fans. Bashing the starting QB. When he starts playing good you all will say I new he could do it. But for now old oiler sorry beep beep fans get a life. Treat the team and players with respect!


Get real, just because I do not look at this team through battle red glasses, do not say I am no fan...Franchise label is now gone, O line has improved since last season, cannot use the O line as an excuse for Carr anymore...

TexanPride#1
09-03-2005, 10:34 PM
Dom Davis I like you! You know what your talking about! Dave Ragone is so great he's doing things against 3rd and 4th defense's get a life people he's not that great. :tomato: Carr's the best we have! Watch and see!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

El Tejano
09-04-2005, 08:24 AM
I've made my comments about Carr not being ready. I've never said I am ready to give up on him though.

HJam72
09-04-2005, 09:25 AM
Not starting Carr would be a big mistake, but it doesn't bother me at all that people are on his butt right now. They love him most of the time, but Saturday he played like crap and this is what happens. I'm sure he's smart enough not to be reading message boards right now, especially since I really doubt he ever does. Sometimes athletes deserve to have fanatics screaming to fire them even though actually doing it would be incredibly unfair and totally stupid, lol.

DomDavis
09-04-2005, 11:06 AM
Right now, Carr deserves every bit of bashing he is getting. His performance Thursday night was on par with your average HS freshman playing his first game, while having the UT defense staring at you from the other side of the ball. Hello, his QB rating was ZERO. ZERO people. He deserved to go into negative numbers, but that stat doesn't call for it, although I heard they are thinking of changing that after watching the game Thursday. He STUNK! This is his fourth year, not his first. The time for excuses is past. If he doesn't pick it up in a HUGE way the first two games, I say bench his over paid arse, and put Ragone in. I never thought I would say that, but I am tired of the excuses. I really have no words strong enough to portray what I thought of his performance on Thursday. Terrible? Nah, not strong enough. Stunk? nah. Pathetic? Getting warmer. Losersville? Horid? Nope, can't come up with it yet. Someone help me here! :goodnight

I'll help you out... completely irrelevant? Regardless of what you think, that's the only truth to his performance on Thursday.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Carr is proven to be in the top half of NFL starting quarterbacks when the games actually matter. Ragone looked slightly above average against third and fourth string scrubs in meaningless exhibition games. He has been a third-stringer for almost his entire career (and still is). Benching David Carr for Dave Ragone would be about as wise as the Colts benching Peyton Manning for Jim Sorgi (or whoever their backup is now).

P.S. Those of you saying the OL is no longer an excuse - what games were you watching? I saw an OL that was as bad as any we've ever had, save the first few games of '02. I could count the amount of times Carr had "huge pockets" on one hand.

Malloy
09-04-2005, 01:26 PM
"Get off CARR'S butt!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! "

Only if he gets off his own butt... :)

tsip
09-04-2005, 02:42 PM
when did our pre-season record and performance start counting towards our regular season? Could somebody point that out to me.

"when did our pre-season record and performance start counting towards our regular season? Could somebody point that out to me. "

...doesn't count but --in our 1st 3yrs-- we've played the same way in
both the preseason and season

...side fact, 72% of teams did not have losing records in the preseason--
guess they don't know what the Texans know

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
09-04-2005, 03:07 PM
...side fact, both the Eagles and Patriots went 1-3 in the preseason last season

...side fact, last season the Titans, Buccaneers, Browns, Raiders and Cowboys finished the preseason with a 3-1 record (best in their divisions) and they all ended up last in their division

tsip
09-04-2005, 03:10 PM
...side fact, both the Eagles and Patriots went 1-3 in the preseason last season

...side fact, last season the Titans, Buccaneers, Browns, Raiders and Cowboys finished the preseason with a 3-1 record (best in their divisions) and they all ended up last in their division

...last season???...is it getting re-played?

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
09-04-2005, 03:14 PM
Has this season played out already? Your doom and gloom attitude sure makes it seem like it has.

tsip
09-04-2005, 03:18 PM
no, I'm just ready for the season to start so the Texans can play some
'real' football--doom and gloom or rose colored glasses, some folks are
so defensive---if you believe in your team, let them do their talking on
the field

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
09-04-2005, 03:30 PM
if you believe in your team, let them do their talking on
the field



Well then who is your team? :texans:

texasguy346
09-04-2005, 03:37 PM
I'm not sure what the obsession with (W-L) record in the preseason is, but as others have pointed out that part of the preseason doesn't amount to much. What matters is how the first team offense and defense performs during those games. That being said the first team offense looked horrid in both of the last two games after looking great in the first two in limited action. The first team defense looked good at times, and not so good at other times. Many fans are disappointed in how they performed, and I am among them. However, I'm not about to say that it's indicative of how the entire season will go. It's definately a cause for concern, and it worries me but I'm not about to trash the season.

I still think that when this team is on it can be successful. When the offense and the defense are both playing the way they're capable of I have no doubt that we'll win games against tough opponets. It's all a matter of this team playing up to that level consistently. We've seen glimpses of what they can be, but until they put it all together there are going to be concerns and worries among the fans. Come Sept 11th the wins and losses matter. I, for one, still think this team is capable of going 9-7 or 10-6 if they play the way I think they're capable of, but if we get some bad breaks it could easily slip to 8-8. I know that no matter what all of us will be watching closely as our Texans face off against the Bills hoping to see our team playing the way they should.

touttail
09-04-2005, 06:48 PM
I wouldn't bash Carr. Just don't want him to make lame excuses. Just want him to say I screwed up, I can't change it, let's forget about it, and look forward to Buffalo!

Bobby 119C

HJam72
09-04-2005, 08:43 PM
I want him to say, "Get off my butt!!!!!!!!!!!!," lol. :tv:

GP
09-05-2005, 12:50 AM
It's concerning to see the manipulation of stats to back one's position on this topic.

Someone mentioned the Patriots and Eagles going 1-3 in last year's preseason, but let's examine them a little closer:

The Eagles played in three straight NFC championship games for the past three years.

The Patriots have played in 2 out of 3 AFC championship games for the past three years.

When a team is doing THAT well for a period of three straight years, which is rare in the NFL of today, you can afford to relax and lose some preseason games without getting too concerned that it will carry over to the reg season.

The Texans, on the other hand, cannot be trusted (as history is proving) to just "turn the light switch on" at a moment's notice.

Wishful thinking, rose-colored glasses, and pridefully defending this team against the rightful criticism it is receiving right now is NOT as persuasive as the fact that was shown by the TV commentators during one of our preseason games: THE VAST MAJORITY OF SUPER BOWL WINNING TEAMS HAD WINNING RECORDS IN THEIR RESPECTIVE PRESEASON GAMES.

Yes, you can allow for some statistical flukes (last year's Eagles and Patriots who went 1-3 in preseason)...but please don't try to use or manipulate that stat when the overall trend is showing that good teams don't tank in the preseason and then miraculously make a comeback in the reg season.

All of this said, please understand that the people who are "bashing" this team or this team's QB right now are not evil people out to get some of you and to make some of you mad for no reason. Heck, we're not even really bashing the team. All we're doing is asking some of you to at least be a little objective and to drop the homer-ish attitude for just a few days. This team is a good team with good players (on the field and off) but they ain't playing worth a plug nickel right now, and nobody's justification ("It's just preseason!" or "It doesn't count!") is going to do much to persuade me that we're an "up-and-coming" contender right now for anything resembling the playoffs.

I've had a guy private message me and call me "A Waste" and tell me to leave town over this stuff. Nice, huh? I left this message board for an entire year awhile back and I am just now coming back because so many people back then were personally ripping each other over good, thought-provoking arguments. There was just simply no room for disagreement on any topic, and you got your skull caved in on this board if you didn't run with a certain pack of wolves. Now, there's moderators who have helped to cut it down, but the private message is basically a sneak attack nuclear bomb that got dropped on me in the past few days--It was used by someone who knew they couldn't get away with that sort of trash within the regular board postings.

So let me just say that the accusations of "You're not a real fan!" against some of the posters are just very unfortunate.

This team has looked disgraceful in at least 2 out of the 4 preseason games, and I would rather have seen those two disgraceful games be against our first two preseason opponents than our last two opponents, as it was.

If we don't carry over our bad play to the Bills, I'll be happy. I won't be thrilled, though, because it's just typical of the "light switch" philosophy that has become the standard operating procedure for this team. History is history, and we got plenty of it in the area of preseason performance as it relates to regular season play. Yes, we've improved our wins each year...but anything less than 8-8 (and actually, it should be at least 9-7) is all I need to say the Texans have to make a combination of changes in personnel and overall strategy, etc. Not bashing the team, but simply saying that I am a fan that has lost the honeymoon-esque feelins and I desire to see this team make that "next step" even if it means cutting some ties with well-loved players and/or coaches. The overall Texans organization has produced an above-average team, and I'm thankful...but we've got the talent to at least challenge for a wild card. Anything less than challenging for the wild card should not be tolerated by the majority of fans.

Here's to our first winning regular season. :texans: :texflag:

Lucky
09-05-2005, 09:46 AM
If we don't carry over our bad play to the Bills, I'll be happy. I won't be thrilled, though, because it's just typical of the "light switch" philosophy that has become the standard operating procedure for this team.
Heads you win, tails they lose. If the Texans poor preseason performance doesn't carry over, you won't even consider the possibility that you were wrong to place so much emphasis on these practice games?

Some teams place an emphasis on winning preseason games. Do they all win in the regular season? No. Some teams do not place an emphasis on winning preseason games. Do they all lose in the regular season? No.

The vast majority of Super Bowl Champs win in the preseason? OK. So I guess this means the Texans aren't going to win the Super Bowl. But I'll venture that even if the Texans had won all of their preseason games, they weren't going to win the Super Bowl this season. It wouldn't have even meant that they were a lock for the playoffs. So again, why place this much emphasis on these practice games?

Regarding the PM's you've received, anyone can forward PM's if they feel a member has crossed the line. Certainly, you're given more leeway in a PM to make a point. But PM's aren't made available just to enable attacks on fellow members.

Honoring Earl 34
09-05-2005, 10:05 AM
:eek: A board full of biased my way or the highway folks is a lead balloon . If you can't speek your mind , then its not a board but a communist newspaper . As a consumer who buys eight dollar beers I have a right to voice a complaint . If you settle for being OK then we'll get OK (The Cubs ).
The Texans make me nervous , I don't see an improvement to get me excited . It may be preseason but playing Dallas should get their juices flowing . I don't believe a young team can just turn it on when they need to .
As far as Carr goes , this will be his fourth year . He is also in his mid twenties he is not a kid . Are we going to treat him like Steve Francis and call him a young player and just needs to learn for five years or is it OK to say He should be further along . If its not some of Carr's problem then who's is it .

thegr8fan
09-05-2005, 10:16 AM
So again, why place this much emphasis on these practice games? let me explain it to you. Because in the NFL the overall difference in talent between a starter and most 2nd and sometimes even 3rd string players isn't that big of a difference. Granted there is some difference, but the drop off from starter to 2nd string is almost negligable. So in a preseason game like the last one, when the cuts are already down to 65 players, the talent level isn't some monumental difference. So if our starters can't get any offense generated against the other teams first string OR second string, it is pretty much a 'given' that they are going to have problems in the real season. It is called logical thinking. They aren't going to walk off the field, go into the locker room, and take off their STUPID FOOTBALL PLAYER suit and put on their NFL STARTER suit, like Spiderman.

THAT is why there is so much emphasis on the final 2 preseason, excuse me practice games.

As for people being on Carr's butt, he DESERVED it. When you are getting paid the amount of money he is, and he messed up in the manner that he did, he EARNED it even. Carr isn't above being critiqued by the fans or the coach's. And I would like to think that Carr himself at least understands that when you play like a STUPID FOOTBALL PLAYER, you deserve to be called one.

Honoring Earl 34
09-05-2005, 10:30 AM
:tomato: If Carr does'nt turn the corner this year then what . He was the first pick in the entire draft .

A great player makes the team around him better , I don't see that yet . Lord I apoligize for not calling Carr great and help the starving pigmies in New Guinea . Point is you can only use an expansion label for so long . David needs to buckle down and be a NFL QB and weed out the distractions .

Vinny
09-05-2005, 10:42 AM
Regarding the PM's you've received, anyone can forward PM's if they feel a member has crossed the line. Certainly, you're given more leeway in a PM to make a point. But PM's aren't made available just to enable attacks on fellow members.
I've banned members for vulgar or insulting PM's....and will continue to. If anyone is getting vile, vulgar, or PM's with personal insults in them please forward them to me.

DomDavis
09-05-2005, 10:46 AM
let me explain it to you. Because in the NFL the overall difference in talent between a starter and most 2nd and sometimes even 3rd string players isn't that big of a difference. Granted there is some difference, but the drop off from starter to 2nd string is almost negligable. So in a preseason game like the last one, when the cuts are already down to 65 players, the talent level isn't some monumental difference. So if our starters can't get any offense generated against the other teams first string OR second string, it is pretty much a 'given' that they are going to have problems in the real season. It is called logical thinking. They aren't going to walk off the field, go into the locker room, and take off their STUPID FOOTBALL PLAYER suit and put on their NFL STARTER suit, like Spiderman.

THAT is why there is so much emphasis on the final 2 preseason, excuse me practice games.

As for people being on Carr's butt, he DESERVED it. When you are getting paid the amount of money he is, and he messed up in the manner that he did, he EARNED it even. Carr isn't above being critiqued by the fans or the coach's. And I would like to think that Carr himself at least understands that when you play like a STUPID FOOTBALL PLAYER, you deserve to be called one.

No, but they can walk off the field, go into the locker room and start running their real plans, their real protection schemes and playing their star running back more than a quarter. If our starters can't get any offense generated against the opposition's first and second string... it's completely irrelevant because we don't have all of our players playing. More importantly, however, is the fact that the Texans did not care about winning and losing and did not come even close to using the plays and schemes they are going to use in the regular seson.

It's only "logical thinking" if the Texans were taking the same motivation to the preseason that they do to the regular season. It's only "logical thinking" if the Texans were using the same players and schemes in the preseason that they do in the regular season. Neither is true, so there's absolutely zero correlation.

thegr8fan
09-05-2005, 11:20 AM
It's only "logical thinking" if the Texans were taking the same motivation to the preseason that they do to the regular season. It's only "logical thinking" if the Texans were using the same players and schemes in the preseason that they do in the regular season. what a load of 'horse cookies'. According to you, the Texans starters didn't even play then, huh. And the plays they called we won't EVER use in a real game, huh.

According to you, Preseason is only to evaluate players on the bubble, so why even put the starters in at all? Preseason isn't to practice timing routes and blocking schemes against other teams starters at all is it? I mean according to you and the other :homer: on this board, it was all a ruse to fool the other teams into thinking we really are a bunch of STUPID FOOTBALL PLAYERS, huh? All I know is if the Texans Players are that good of actors, they need to be in Hollywood and not Texas. They are definitely Academy Award winner's in Acting. Obviously that whole preseason ruse was as good as the Trojan Horse one back in the day. Yep, we got the whole other 31 teams in the NFL fooled now. They probably won't even play thier starters in Buffalo, to keep them from getting hurt, we fooled them so bad.

The only thing I hope is that Carr really does have some kind of 'Real NFL QB' suit in his locker and changes into it quickly. Because in exactly 6 days we are going to get to see if the 'Preseason Trojan Horse Ruse' worked or not.

And I can't tell you how happy I will be to be wrong and come on here and tell all you 'Preseason doesn't mean anything Homers' how right you were. Nothing would make me happier.

Honoring Earl 34
09-05-2005, 11:39 AM
:ok: I'll buy the Texans are preparing for the 1st game not pre-season . A guy named Vince Lombardi said that winning is not a sometimes thing you can't just decide to win . You play like you practice and and pre-season is practice.

The Texans have'nt earned the right to stink and not be worried about it cuz it's pre-season . Their closer to San Fran and Cleveland than they are to Philly and the Colts .

DomDavis
09-05-2005, 11:59 AM
what a load of 'horse cookies'. According to you, the Texans starters didn't even play then, huh. And the plays they called we won't EVER use in a real game, huh.

According to you, Preseason is only to evaluate players on the bubble, so why even put the starters in at all? Preseason isn't to practice timing routes and blocking schemes against other teams starters at all is it? I mean according to you and the other :homer: on this board, it was all a ruse to fool the other teams into thinking we really are a bunch of STUPID FOOTBALL PLAYERS, huh? All I know is if the Texans Players are that good of actors, they need to be in Hollywood and not Texas. They are definitely Academy Award winner's in Acting. Obviously that whole preseason ruse was as good as the Trojan Horse one back in the day. Yep, we got the whole other 31 teams in the NFL fooled now. They probably won't even play thier starters in Buffalo, to keep them from getting hurt, we fooled them so bad.

The only thing I hope is that Carr really does have some kind of 'Real NFL QB' suit in his locker and changes into it quickly. Because in exactly 6 days we are going to get to see if the 'Preseason Trojan Horse Ruse' worked or not.

And I can't tell you how happy I will be to be wrong and come on here and tell all you 'Preseason doesn't mean anything Homers' how right you were. Nothing would make me happier.

Why put the starters in? Because how would you sell tickets if you never play any player that fans know?

Most NFL analysts and teams want a shorter preseason, and there's a reason for that. It's purpose is irrelevant except for a few players on the bubble. The NFL, however, uses it to bring in extra revenue. And the teams oblige, but they try to keep the playbooks as simple as possible to avoid any risk of injury or giving our secrets.

If you don't mind me asking, how do you think we won in Miami in 2003? We looked even worse that preseason than we did in this one... and somehow, we went on the road and beat a very good team on the road in the first week. Maybe, just maybe, the Texans played different when they actually gave a **** about the game?

DomDavis
09-05-2005, 12:03 PM
:ok: I'll buy the Texans are preparing for the 1st game not pre-season . A guy named Vince Lombardi said that winning is not a sometimes thing you can't just decide to win . You play like you practice and and pre-season is practice.

The Texans have'nt earned the right to stink and not be worried about it cuz it's pre-season . Their closer to San Fran and Cleveland than they are to Philly and the Colts .

Every team has earned that right. I wouldn't be worried about San Fran and Cleveland if they played poorly in the preseason. I'd be worried about how they played last season. When every coach will agree that the W/L result is irrelevant, it's pretty silly to act like some teams have to "earn" the right not to worry about it.

Pre-season isn't practice. It's actually less relevant than practice. At least in practice the Texans work on all their schemes and formations and talk strategy. Pre-season games are all about being very vanilla and doing your best to hide your new wrinkles for when the games actually count.

tsip
09-05-2005, 12:09 PM
No, but they can walk off the field, go into the locker room and start running their real plans, their real protection schemes and playing their star running back more than a quarter. If our starters can't get any offense generated against the opposition's first and second string... it's completely irrelevant because we don't have all of our players playing. More importantly, however, is the fact that the Texans did not care about winning and losing and did not come even close to using the plays and schemes they are going to use in the regular seson.

It's only "logical thinking" if the Texans were taking the same motivation to the preseason that they do to the regular season. It's only "logical thinking" if the Texans were using the same players and schemes in the preseason that they do in the regular season. Neither is true, so there's absolutely zero correlation.

...you've got to be awfully bored to believe you need to defend the Texans
on every post!! This Sunday is your day because the Texans will verify
all your logic...right?

DomDavis
09-05-2005, 12:17 PM
...you've got to be awfully bored to believe you need to defend the Texans
on every post!! This Sunday is your day because the Texans will verify
all your logic...right?

It's not about defending the Texans... it's about defending common sense. I've never seen anyone freak out so much about preseason football games as some of the people here.

As for Sunday, I'm counting on it. I'm not going to guarantee a win or anything because Buffalo's a solid team and we're on the road, but it'll be a very competitive game and will come down to who makes the plays late in the fourth quarter. Hopefully it's us.

Lucky
09-05-2005, 01:14 PM
...It is called logical thinking. They aren't going to walk off the field, go into the locker room, and take off their STUPID FOOTBALL PLAYER suit and put on their NFL STARTER suit, like Spiderman.
Hey, it's always gr8 to discuss football with a lover of logic. Spidey's pretty cool. Never much into comic books myself, but I was a huge Star Trek fan. Spock was my favorite, because he was logical. Kirk was a hothead. He couldn't have captained the Galileo without Spock holding his hand. Some liked Scottie, maybe they thought he was tough. Spock could have taken him out in less than a second. Bones? Nobody likes that wimp.

What does Star Trek have to do with the Texans? Like Spiderman, nothing that I can tell. But, I did come across some info that defies logic.

Texans 2002 preseason record - (1-4 .200)
Texans 2003 preseason record - (0-4 .000)
Texans 2004 preseason record - (1-3 .250)
Texans 2005 preseason record - (1-3 .250)

Texans 2002 regular season record - (4-12 .250)
Texans 2003 regular season record - (5-11 .313)
Texans 2004 regular season record - (7-9 .438)
Texans 2004 regular season record - ???

The Texans have never really improved on their preseason record from their expansion season. Yet, their regular season record has improved every year. How can this be? But there's more! Every year, the Texans have a higher winning % in the regular season than in preseason. Stupefying...if you think about it logically. Maybe you're on to something with those Spiderman suits.

Honoring Earl 34
09-05-2005, 01:49 PM
:tomato: Losing in pre-season is not the point , not playing well is the point . Our last two pre-season games we stunk on Offense , except for Swinton and Thomas .
The Texans beat Miami then what happened .

Texas
09-05-2005, 02:11 PM
I look at Carr and I like him as a Quarterback but I beleive he is not playing to his full potential.

Honoring Earl 34
09-05-2005, 02:32 PM
:texflag: I agree with the 16 year old about Carr .
The thing that makes sports fun is being in the race at the end . Last years Stro's , the old Oilers , The Rockets , Phi Slamma Jamma and the Comets . Its time for the Texans to start heading in that direction . I do not thing Bob Mcnair will wait much longer either .

tsip
09-05-2005, 02:49 PM
Capers said that Carr has not played very well lately, plain and simple.
Cowher talked about how important Ben is to the team.

That got me to thinking about how Coaches react at press conferences after
a defeat. Often, the head coach accepts fault, saying that he did not have
the team ready/prepared to play or something to that affect,some coaches
talk about the players. I think the more succesful coaches-Belichek, Parcells,
Reid, Dungy, Cowher, Fisher, etc. are more prone to accept more of the
blame themselves rather than putting it on a player(s) in public.

OK, and maybe I'm wrong here, but I can't remember Capers being the
type to take the blame nor am I saying he always blames his players-
does the 'buck' stop with Capers? :confused:

Lucky
09-05-2005, 03:13 PM
The Texans beat Miami then what happened .
The Texans finished 5-11, about par for a team in its 2nd season. They played the 2 Super Bowl teams (Panthers & Patriots) tough along the way.

Any other historical info you need, let me know.

jr0ck
09-05-2005, 04:01 PM
Losing in pre-season is not the point , not playing well is the point.

i know we could 'semantic' this to death, but since half this board is all absorbed in absolutism at the moment, why wouldn't you think that losing = not playing well? i mean it is the the less desirable result, you don't practice how to lose games, but if everything is as black and white as "Carr SUCKS!/Ragone should start!/Carr is only good at deep balls and will fail in our "wimpy" short route oriented system...BLAH BLAH frickin' BLAH" then why would anyone assume ANY loss isn't attributed to shoddy effort/execution?

now, i don't mean to come at you Earl, but your quote has helped me muster into words what i've been wanting to start an entire thread on. it's not totally formulated yet (as you can see) but hopefully it will come to fruition before all the of CLS member's go all 'john kerry' on us and flip flop when the texans look good again...hopefully in week one....


...and yes, i GUARAN-DAMN-TEE that the texans will eventually look good (dare i say GREAT) at some point in time next season :texflag:

jmlockett
09-05-2005, 05:53 PM
I Agree The Texans Have What It Takes To Become A Great Team. The Only Way I Will Get Off Of Carrs Butt Is To See Him Play Like He Is Worth The Money We The Fans Are Ultimately Paying. I Say If Nothing Else Have Him Admit His Short Comings When He Screws Up. Let Him Be Confronted By The Fans In A Press Conference. He Has The Heart To Do Great Things. But Does He Have The Stomach?

Honoring Earl 34
09-05-2005, 08:02 PM
:texflag: Jrock your missing the point . The first string comes in and goes two series looks good and puts on the ballcap for the night . That did not happen in the last two games . The first team I would imagine gets most of the snaps in practice so I expected more .
Once the first team is off the field its a battle for depth and roster spots so it does'nt matter to much after that .
The reference to Kerry can go both ways . So don't take any wooden nickles .

disaacks3
09-05-2005, 08:14 PM
First Off, I really HOPE that the Texans look better on Sunday than they did the last two weeks, or we're gonna get 'beaten like a rented mule' in Buffalo.

For those of the opinion that the First-string Offense either A) Didn't look THAT bad, or... B) We were simply "Hiding" things from our regular-season opponents, I've got just one question for you.

Please name a current starting NFL QB (other than the esteemed Mr. Carr) who posted two games (much less two CONSECUTIVE games) with a passer rating BELOW double-digits in pre-season? Bonus points if you can keep it within the last decade.

If you can provide one example, it would sure make me feel a whole lot better about where the Texans may be heading.

jr0ck
09-05-2005, 08:35 PM
The reference to Kerry can go both ways . So don't take any wooden nickles .

i actually just meant the kerry reference as a casual pop-culture crap. it's hard for me to tell what you mean by your response (forgive my political ineptitude) but i wasn't trying to make a political tie in to anything in regards to our team. anywho, back to 'bidniss'....

That did not happen in the last two games .

but if carr's performance was flip flopped and he seemed to have improved in the last two games then we would be forced to make the same conclusions from the four preseason games...they're preseason games. it's just hard for me to draw any correlation to predict how carr and co. will look on opening day from preseason, since there are such limited snaps haven't seen how the team handles mistakes and adversity (which are INEVITABLE). the only thing i can walk away from our first four (preseason-season) games are this: we know what it will look like when things go bad and when things look good. but to try and predict how much bad and good we'll see is beyond perception right now IMO.


If you can provide one example, it would sure make me feel a whole lot better about where the Texans may be heading.

first time for everything (although i doubt it is, just to lazy to "make you feel a lot better". get some drive man! :tomato: ). carr's already had ten times the career than most NFL QB's ever have...

ledzeppelin229
09-05-2005, 08:36 PM
His destiny is to be the worst preseason QB ever to win OMVP.

Ok, I'll get off the homer crack.

Wolf
09-05-2005, 08:48 PM
If I was a coach.. keys to preseason would be just to evaluate talent.. these penalties, miss tackles, miss assignments , miss the timing routes.. would drive me nuts.. To me the basic stuff should be automatic.
That's what I am worried about.

MYDAUGHTER'STEXANS
09-06-2005, 01:10 AM
Give me a break, look at the kind of money they are paying Carr. Either he learns how to play in the NFL or he will be like Tim Couch. 5.5 Million a year please look at the Salary Cap info for the Texans, he's #1 so he should play like number one, or put Ragone up there with the first string line and offense and see who does better, this is Carr's last year they have the option of letting him go, he is the only QB in the NFL they talk more about his hair than his arm. I am a huge Texans fan till the day I die, but if Carr is not the one for this team then we need to move on and stop forcing the facts that he is the best thing that ever happend to the Texans, we need to move on, if he does not produce this year, 4 years in the leauge this is make or break year for Joey and Carr both top two pick of 02. So lets hope he pans out, if not stop crying, there are other QB's out there, look at Michael Vicks little brother, he enough to make defense's sick over. Bottom line is when you pay Carr this kind of money Mcnair wants to see what he is paying for, and also should we as ticket paying fans, so if Carr is not the one to lead us to a Super Bowl then we need to move on period. One good year at Fresno does not make him a Peyton Manning or Tom Brady he has to earn that.

Elite
09-06-2005, 01:22 AM
Give me a break, look at the kind of money they are paying Carr. Either he learns how to play in the NFL or he will be like Tim Couch. 5.5 Million a year please look at the Salary Cap info for the Texans, he's #1 so he should play like number one, or put Ragone up there with the first string line and offense and see who does better, this is Carr's last year they have the option of letting him go, he is the only QB in the NFL they talk more about his hair than his arm. I am a huge Texans fan till the day I die, but if Carr is not the one for this team then we need to move on and stop forcing the facts that he is the best thing that ever happend to the Texans, we need to move on, if he does not produce this year, 4 years in the leauge this is make or break year for Joey and Carr both top two pick of 02. So lets hope he pans out, if not stop crying, there are other QB's out there, look at Michael Vicks little brother, he enough to make defense's sick over. Bottom line is when you pay Carr this kind of money Mcnair wants to see what he is paying for, and also should we as ticket paying fans, so if Carr is not the one to lead us to a Super Bowl then we need to move on period. One good year at Fresno does not make him a Peyton Manning or Tom Brady he has to earn that.


Well said but the fans are still gonna blame the O-line but we know the texasn got shafted there first year in they had to take carr or they could of taken peppers.

Hervoyel
09-06-2005, 08:26 AM
Hey, it's always gr8 to discuss football with a lover of logic. Spidey's pretty cool. Never much into comic books myself, but I was a huge Star Trek fan. Spock was my favorite, because he was logical. Kirk was a hothead. He couldn't have captained the Galileo without Spock holding his hand. Some liked Scottie, maybe they thought he was tough. Spock could have taken him out in less than a second. Bones? Nobody likes that wimp.

What does Star Trek have to do with the Texans? Like Spiderman, nothing that I can tell. But, I did come across some info that defies logic.

Texans 2002 preseason record - (1-4 .200)
Texans 2003 preseason record - (0-4 .000)
Texans 2004 preseason record - (1-3 .250)
Texans 2005 preseason record - (1-3 .250)

Texans 2002 regular season record - (4-12 .250)
Texans 2003 regular season record - (5-11 .313)
Texans 2004 regular season record - (7-9 .438)
Texans 2004 regular season record - ???

The Texans have never really improved on their preseason record from their expansion season. Yet, their regular season record has improved every year. How can this be? But there's more! Every year, the Texans have a higher winning % in the regular season than in preseason. Stupefying...if you think about it logically. Maybe you're on to something with those Spiderman suits.


"Fascinating" <raises eyebrow>

dalemurphy
09-06-2005, 08:54 AM
There are two separate issues in regards to Carr that seem to be getting confused.

1. Concerns over his horrible preseason performance.

2. Complaints regarding his performance and development over his first three seasons.

I can certainly relate to #1. Particularly the Tampa game has really got me concerned about the team's direction and the ability for the offense to continue to progress the way it has the past two years.

However, it is silly to suggest that Carr's performance has been poor or that he has failed to development at an appropriate pace. He has been ahead of the curve. The wheels came off of the passing game in the middle of the season but let's not forget his performance, particularly in the second half, in games in KC, against Minnesota, Oakland, etc... And, let's also not forget how good he was in the 4th quarter of games last year.

IMO, Carr is open to a mountain of criticism for his play in the Tampa game. However, what happened in that preseason game, has nothing to do with his accomplishments over the past three seasons and it would be good for fans to not let that game cloud everything else that has happened before it.

jbinbny
09-06-2005, 09:00 AM
Does David Carr resemble Rob Johson? Hmmm some striking similarities in their careers.

dalemurphy
09-06-2005, 11:21 AM
Does David Carr resemble Rob Johson? Hmmm some striking similarities in their careers.

Fortunately, I don't agree. Otherwise, I'd be on suicide watch right now!

jbinbny
09-06-2005, 11:55 AM
Fortunately, I don't agree. Otherwise, I'd be on suicide watch right now!



hahahahahahaha....yeah I suppose you would at that!

GP
09-06-2005, 12:13 PM
Thanks, Vinny, for saying you'd be happy to receive vulgar PMs if I wanted to forward the one I received.

No need for me to do send it to you...I sent him back a bigger fireball than the one he sent me. He sent me another one, and I flamed it back at him again. I've learned that bullies go away when you fight back. So I did, and now he doesn't bother me anymore.

But I will remember your offer, and next time...if it happens to me again...I'll play nice and handle it the preferred way that you'd mentioned.

Vinny
09-06-2005, 12:20 PM
Thanks, Vinny, for saying you'd be happy to receive vulgar PMs if I wanted to forward the one I received.

No need for me to do send it to you...I sent him back a bigger fireball than the one he sent me. He sent me another one, and I flamed it back at him again. I've learned that bullies go away when you fight back. So I did, and now he doesn't bother me anymore.

But I will remember your offer, and next time...if it happens to me again...I'll play nice and handle it the preferred way that you'd mentioned.Actually you are breaking the rules when you fight back like that. You can be banned as well. We will turn off the PM's if they are abused. Just forward them to me as you described at the bottom of your post and you are good to go.

tsip
09-06-2005, 01:08 PM
There are two separate issues in regards to Carr that seem to be getting confused.

1. Concerns over his horrible preseason performance.

2. Complaints regarding his performance and development over his first three seasons.

I can certainly relate to #1. Particularly the Tampa game has really got me concerned about the team's direction and the ability for the offense to continue to progress the way it has the past two years.

However, it is silly to suggest that Carr's performance has been poor or that he has failed to development at an appropriate pace. He has been ahead of the curve. The wheels came off of the passing game in the middle of the season but let's not forget his performance, particularly in the second half, in games in KC, against Minnesota, Oakland, etc... And, let's also not forget how good he was in the 4th quarter of games last year.

IMO, Carr is open to a mountain of criticism for his play in the Tampa game. However, what happened in that preseason game, has nothing to do with his accomplishments over the past three seasons and it would be good for fans to not let that game cloud everything else that has happened before it.

I'm not sure why but you along with many others seemed to have forgotten
that our pass offense was no where to be found the last half of '04, which
means the concern goes well beyond the preseason games. Our offense
has not scored many points over a longer period of time than you have
addressed. And, I wouldn't even bring it up if there were not so many posts
about how the preseason doesn't count, just the season. OK, I'll be
quiet now so you can give the excuses for the 2nd half of '04. Too, not
very many if any teams make the playoffs when they only have good stats
for half the season.

jbinbny
09-06-2005, 01:51 PM
You guys aren't fans. Bashing the starting QB. When he starts playing good you all will say I new he could do it. But for now old oiler sorry beep beep fans get a life. :texflag: Treat the team and players with respect! :texans:


Why is it that certain people accuse others of not being fans if they dare to have the audacity to criticize the starting QB, or coach or K or whoever is on the team. They are made out to be traitors!!!

I'm a Buffalo Bills fan and let me say I dont check my objectivity at the door before posting on the Bill's board. If they suck, I say it.

And if they dont, I say that to.

But we have the same kind on our board as ol Tex here.

dalemurphy
09-06-2005, 02:45 PM
I'm not sure why but you along with many others seemed to have forgotten
that our pass offense was no where to be found the last half of '04, which
means the concern goes well beyond the preseason games. Our offense
has not scored many points over a longer period of time than you have
addressed. And, I wouldn't even bring it up if there were not so many posts
about how the preseason doesn't count, just the season. OK, I'll be
quiet now so you can give the excuses for the 2nd half of '04. Too, not
very many if any teams make the playoffs when they only have good stats
for half the season.


Carr was better in '04 than in '03. I know the pass offense struggled in the second half. It may have had something to do with the fact that defenses realized they could sit back in Cover 2, rush 4, and put a lot of pressure on Carr. The point I made is that Carr and the offense has improved each year. Last season was much better on offense than '03. That's a fact. And, Carr was much improved as well.