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View Full Version : No cause for concern ? .....yeah right !


Corrosion
08-29-2005, 12:45 AM
Ive pretty much predicted another 7-9 or worse record this year .... Why you ask ... thats pretty simple .


First of all you CUT two of your leaders and arguably most productive players on the devensive side of the ball in J.Sharper and Aaron Glenn not to mention the release of J.Foreman who was a starter although borderline . Sharper is a Starter on almost every team in the NFL . Glenn may have lost a step but his leadership and cover ability will be sorely missed . To give up two quality players like that for ZERO COMPENSATION is just not good business . Salary Cap or no ... :brickwall
The players they plugged into those positions are un-proven if not questionable thenselves in Greenwood and Buchannon .

Moved another player to a new position in K.Wong . Yes i realize he has played inside before but that was in the Vikings 4-3 . There will be a transition period for Wong no doubt .

The Offense has three Glaring weaknesses ....

First the O-Line and a particular weakness at LT where we had S.Wand last season and now have V.Riley who has played better than Wand ..... While Riley has played decent and is an upgrade he isnt the cornerstone player needed to protect Carr's blindside . The O-line is still sub par and lacks depth . Carr will likely lead the league again in times sacked .

Many on this board including myself have said the Texans lack a multi-dimensional TE . Bruener ,likely the starter come opening day , was known for his blocking when w/ the Steelers hasnt done much of that since coming to the Texans and his pass catching abilities are .... Poor to say the least . Billy Miller couldnt block for a high school team . Matt Murphy has been hot and cold so far . Joppru isnt listed on the Texans depth chart and is injuried for a thrid straight season . Looks like he'll end up on the PuP list again or get cut .

At the Skill positions its Carr , A.J , D.D. and a buncha no-bodies . The Texans need a second reciever to compliment A.J.
Bradford has had three seasons to show he could be that player .... it was evident when no other NFL team would sign him that he isnt that player . The Texans re-signed him as more of an insurance policy if you ask me .... Or the lack of a better free agent option at the position within their price range .
Gaffeny has been injury plagued this pre-season and hasnt had opportunity to show if he can improve upon last year .
For all those who think Mathis is the savior here .... he was drafted purely on Potential , this kid is Raw with a Capitol R.A.W. His college team didnt even have a reciever's coach ....He will contribute on special teams but dont look for him to see much action at reciever until mid-season if not later .
Swinton has been a bright spot so far at reciever and returning kicks .... although he may not get much time at reciever .

While on the subject of the skill positions ..... SOMEONE PLEASE CUT T.HOLLINGS , we have seen ENOUGH !! Cut your losses and keep someone who will make good use of a roster spot !

There have been a few bright spots for the Texans this off-season but i just dont think the team has improved itself , in fact they may have taken a step backwards and their record will show it in the coming season . 6-10 or 7-9 isnt the end of the world but for most of us fans it isnt what we expect from this orginization . We expect sound decisions and progress .... :texflag:


Flame away , i know its coming ! :tomato:


:goodnight

BREAZE
08-29-2005, 01:30 AM
"The Offense has three Glaring weaknesses ...."

The Offense has one glaring weakness and his name is Chris Palmer...

ocd
08-29-2005, 02:44 AM
I think you're being optimistic. I'm saying we go 4 and 12 or 5 and 11...we won't be able to score enough once again. :brickwall

Defense will be exhausted by the 4th qtr of just about every game. :brickwall

I see us going 1 and 5 in the division w/our win coming against the Titans.

Buffalo will set the tempo on our Mickey Mouse offense and they are gonna swarm all over that joke of a passing "attack". :brickwall

Bye bye Capers...Bye bye Palmer...top 10 pick once again.



:brickwall

Grid
08-29-2005, 02:52 AM
*sigh*

why did you take all that time to write this drivel? seriously.. you should be spending more time reading what knowledgable fans have to say, not forming flawed opinions off of whatever snippets of information you catch here and there.

I may not be the sharpest tool in the shed.. but ill point out a few flaws i caught.


First of all you CUT two of your leaders and arguably most productive players on the devensive side of the ball in J.Sharper and Aaron Glenn

It was time to move on. We had NO threats in our front seven last season. No one that the other team had to take special consideration of. Sharper is a good LB, but he was not, and is not, a great LB. He was above average, but thats about it.

Why release him? do you recall all of the TEs and slot receivers chewing up our defense last year? remember us not being able to stop ANYONE on 3rd downs? That was Sharper and Foreman. They were simply TOO SLOW and WEAK in coverage. We needed speed.. and we needed youth on defense.. so thats what we got.

As for us not getting anything for them.. well we tried to get something but no one was willing to pay..ANYTHING.. so we had to release them. Why continue to hold onto a player that isnt producing, simply because you feel he may be worth something to someone? thank god we were more interested in WINNING than making a good looking trade for Sharper and Glenn.

Oh.. and the same goes for Glenn. Above average.. but he is in the decline. Hes old.. we needed someone to replace him very soon. We had the opportunity to get that player..and so we did. Glenn was given a choice.. he chose to leave. End of story.

First the O-Line and a particular weakness at LT where we had S.Wand last season and now have V.Riley who has played better than Wand ..... While Riley has played decent and is an upgrade he isnt the cornerstone player needed to protect Carr's blindside

why? becuase we didnt draft him in the first round? Because his name isnt Orlando Pace? Have you seen Carr getting too much pressure? have you seen Carr getting sacked? I havent.. so what exactly is your arguement?

Carr will likely lead the league again in times sacked

yah i know.. and we will probably all die too. And a comet will hit houston. and the bubonic plague will spread across america. and the oceans will overflow and god will point and laugh at us. wow it sucks to be alive.


Many on this board including myself have said the Texans lack a multi-dimensional TE

The steelers have been playing without a quality TE since the early 90s. They seem to have gotten by just fine. Matter of fact.. ALOT of teams in the NFL seem to get by just fine without a superstar TE. A TE is not essential to a good offense.


At the Skill positions its Carr , A.J , D.D. and a buncha no-bodies

why? cause you havent seen their name mentioned on Sportscenter? We have a VERY talented group of young WRs. We are going to have a very hard time picking which ones to keep and who to cut.

While on the subject of the skill positions ..... SOMEONE PLEASE CUT T.HOLLINGS , we have seen ENOUGH !! Cut your losses and keep someone who will make good use of a roster spot

I agree.





So.. there are your flames.

jppaul
08-29-2005, 03:28 AM
Yeah somebody cut hollings before he tears his A.c.l. falling off the pine. Hes worthless.

TexHorns
08-29-2005, 04:33 AM
Grid,
I couldn't have said it better myself. Good post.

ccdude730
08-29-2005, 04:59 AM
Ive pretty much predicted another 7-9 or worse record this year ....
i say 9-7

First of all you CUT two of your leaders and arguably most productive players on the devensive side of the ball in J.Sharper and Aaron Glenn not to mention the release of J.Foreman who was a starter although borderline . Sharper is a Starter on almost every team in the NFL . Glenn may have lost a step but his leadership and cover ability will be sorely missed . To give up two quality players like that for ZERO COMPENSATION is just not good business . Salary Cap or no ... :brickwall
leaders?? sharper demanded a leader and yet he was not ready for that role himself. sharper would not be a starter on nearly every team in the nfl - it sure took him a long time to get signed on with another team. if you cant make a trade the best thing to do is bite the bullet and cut them. they deserved at least that time to be able to get with another team rather than us keep them on the payroll through TC while we knew they would not stay here

The players they plugged into those positions are un-proven if not questionable thenselves in Greenwood and Buchannon.
greenwood and p buch are here because they are younger and faster. they make our overall defense stronger. the defense IMO will be able to take more chances and create turnovers. i like greenwood and he is a guy we can count on for coverage and speed and a sure tackle. p buch was in a bad situation in oakland, id save judgements until the end of the season to say his aquisition was questionable also. to me, its like dillon in NE from cincy. i think. they also have more freedom with their contracts.

While Riley has played decent and is an upgrade he isnt the cornerstone player needed to protect Carr's blindside. The O-line is still sub par and lacks depth . Carr will likely lead the league again in times sacked .
most teams have solid LTs who are not the cornerstones of their respective Oline. carr leading the league in sacks? i thought the changed the whole offense because of that? he will get sacked but i dont think it will be near the league lead.

Many on this board including myself have said the Texans lack a multi-dimensional TE . Bruener ,likely the starter come opening day , was known for his blocking when w/ the Steelers hasnt done much of that since coming to the Texans and his pass catching abilities are .... Poor to say the least . Billy Miller couldnt block for a high school team . Matt Murphy has been hot and cold so far . Joppru isnt listed on the Texans depth chart and is injuried for a thrid straight season . Looks like he'll end up on the PuP list again or get cut .
for the billionth time joppru will not get cut. i dont think i have seen enough of murphy to call him hot and cold. i have seen bruener block, and block pretty good because that is what he does.

well since you spoke alot more than i quoted i will give my brief comments on the rest of your post. bradford will be the #2 for the season, gaffney will contribute as a posession receiver (like he always has done), hollings indeed needs to go, mathis is raw but that does not mean he cant contribute (but you also felt he might contribute more as the season progresses which i do believe will happen), we did not take a step backwards

I think you're being optimistic. I'm saying we go 4 and 12 or 5 and 11...we won't be able to score enough once again. :brickwall

Defense will be exhausted by the 4th qtr of just about every game. :brickwall

I see us going 1 and 5 in the division w/our win coming against the Titans.

Buffalo will set the tempo on our Mickey Mouse offense and they are gonna swarm all over that joke of a passing "attack". :brickwall

Bye bye Capers...Bye bye Palmer...top 10 pick once again. are you a fan????

ComstockLode
08-29-2005, 09:04 AM
*sigh*

why did you take all that time to write this drivel? seriously.. you should be spending more time reading what knowledgable fans have to say, not forming flawed opinions off of whatever snippets of information you catch here and there.

I may not be the sharpest tool in the shed.. but ill point out a few flaws i caught.




It was time to move on. We had NO threats in our front seven last season. No one that the other team had to take special consideration of. Sharper is a good LB, but he was not, and is not, a great LB. He was above average, but thats about it.



If it was time to move on, why didnt we replace foreman with a big name linebacker instead of cutting sharper and replacing him with someone who might do a little better but probably wont? If you have no threats in the front seven why would you cut the best player of the front seven and try to improve on that position? Their are six other weaker players but we leave them alone?

Dime
08-29-2005, 09:50 AM
ok.. Here we go.. folks.. We dropped Sharper and Foreman. Why you ask. We wanted to increase our speed and get younger players who will mature to the position. Sharper is a excellent player, but he is starting to slow and his cap is starting to increase. He didnt want a short contract, and we didnt want to sign him to a long term contract. So he was released.

Foreman. I am sorry folks, but Foreman was not the awesome player you all are making him out to be. He was serviceable, that is all. We were looking at adding someone who could come in and make a difference (in our coaches mind, that is Morlon Greenwood). Now if he is awesome or not, that makes no difference. He was faster, younger and a better player then Foreman in our teams eyes.

To address Glenn..
I feel Glenn was a awesome part of the team, but he is also getting older. His experience was invaluable, but he was starting to lose a step and slow down. Is he a great player, yes... but he IS slowing down. We wanted younger to replace him.

If you wanna fume about something, your fuming about the wrong thing. Fume about getting NOTHING for these players... I would join you. Glenn is worth from some team at LEAST a third and Foreman at least a 6th or 5th. Sharper would be worth at least a 2nd.

texan279
08-29-2005, 10:22 AM
First of all you CUT two of your leaders and arguably most productive players on the devensive side of the ball in J.Sharper and Aaron Glenn not to mention the release of J.Foreman who was a starter although borderline . Sharper is a Starter on almost every team in the NFL . Glenn may have lost a step but his leadership and cover ability will be sorely missed .

Glenn is the #3 CB in Dallas, Foreman is on the 2nd team defense in Oakland, and from what I have heard about Sharper is his knee injury could be much more serious than was thought...You cannot keep football players based on the sole purpose of leadership, you have to have players who can perform.

infantrycak
08-29-2005, 10:34 AM
If it was time to move on, why didnt we replace foreman with a big name linebacker instead of cutting sharper and replacing him with someone who might do a little better but probably wont?

Ummm, they did replace Foreman.

If you have no threats in the front seven why would you cut the best player of the front seven and try to improve on that position? Their are six other weaker players but we leave them alone?

Because Sharper wasn't better than the six other players last year and because of the cap situation. 1st two years I was a huge Sharper proponent but last year his play dropped off dramatically. That coupled with his contract made him the most expendible position in the front 7. Walker & Smith weren't touchable because of their contracts. Payne was and is a better player at this point. Wong is a decided upgrade over Foreman and Babin wasn't going to lose his job after having a solid rookie performance.

And PS to everyone who talks about leadership from everyone above 26 yrs old--where does all this presumed leadership come from? When did you ever see Sharper on the field or on the sideline calling the LB's or defense together, standing on the sideline talking to Babin or Peek like he was explaining something, or getting folks hyped up at all? Sharper was a very good player in 2002 and 2003 but the idea that every vet who leaves the team is a good leader who is going to be missed is a joke.

JamesLovesGames
08-29-2005, 10:37 AM
Morency looked good. I saw potential there.
Carr was having a bad night.

BigBull17
08-29-2005, 10:40 AM
If you wanna fume about something, your fuming about the wrong thing. Fume about getting NOTHING for these players... I would join you. Glenn is worth from some team at LEAST a third and Foreman at least a 6th or 5th. Sharper would be worth at least a 2nd.

We tried to trade all of them and couldnt get squat. They were aging players on the last years of their careers. Glenn was having problems staying healthy and Foremen had a huge injury. When you see an old player with season ending injuries its hard to trade to much for him. And Sharper is to much of a liability in coverage to be worth a 2nd rounder. I think they did the right thing with the way they handled it.

infantrycak
08-29-2005, 10:52 AM
If you wanna fume about something, your fuming about the wrong thing. Fume about getting NOTHING for these players... I would join you. Glenn is worth from some team at LEAST a third and Foreman at least a 6th or 5th. Sharper would be worth at least a 2nd.

Foreman plain and simple wasn't very good. Can he hang in the NFL as a backup or expansion team starter?--sure, but that isn't what teams use draft picks for that is what they scan the waiver wire for. Giving Sharper and Glenn's play the credit it is due, they are worth some draft pick. The problem was a trade involves taking on their current contract and they weren't worth their contracts with the Texans. That is clearly demonstrated by the fact that they both signed contracts worth a third or less of their Texans' contract. No team was going to pay a draft pick for the privilege of paying over market price on their cap.

beerlover
08-29-2005, 10:56 AM
We tried to trade all of them and couldnt get squat. They were aging players on the last years of their careers. Glenn was having problems staying healthy and Foremen had a huge injury. When you see an old player with season ending injuries its hard to trade to much for him. And Sharper is to much of a liability in coverage to be worth a 2nd rounder. I think they did the right thing with the way they handled it.

I'd have to agree, the Texans handled these situations with class & not only did what was best for themselves but for the individual players as well.

Its difficult to compare the NFL to MLB or NBA players movement because of the differences in their respect collective bargining agreements. for instance the NFL trade deadline is a non event, whereas in MLB or NBA even if big trades cannot be resolved at least their discussed. Its very difficult to make trades in the NFL, most active periods are at the very beginning of free agency & the NFL draft. the NFL has a much harder cap than NBA and MLB they have only a luxury tax.

bckey
08-29-2005, 01:56 PM
I would have liked to have seen us keep Glenn and our draft picks and get Justin Miller or some other db and let Glenn groom him like he did with Robinson. Then we could have used our 2nd or additional 3rd on the OL or somewhere else. I know all about how Casserly/Capers think that Buchanon is better than anything they could have drafted but I am not sold on that. Keeping Glenn and getting a young db is much better than getting an underachieving db and losing Glenn. I will admit though that if Buchanon can be coached into being what he was once thought by many to have the potential to be out of college Hoke is the man to do it.

BigBull17
08-29-2005, 02:04 PM
They did the trade because o-line was thin this year and thats why they traded down for picks next year. O-Line is gonna be massive and we get the help there we need. PB will make a differense this year, he brings us home run capabilities on D, which we never had befor, and all teams need. The last 4-5 super bowl teams had players who can get you points on any givin play and i love it.

:texflag:

Corrosion
08-29-2005, 03:01 PM
you should be spending more time reading what knowledgable fans have to say,

You mean :homer: fans who think this team has been mistake free . They arent mistake free in their personel decisions ... far from it .

Sharper is a good LB, but he was not, and is not, a great LB. He was above average, but thats about it.

Absolutely correct , he is NOT a superstar but IS an Above average player , you re-enforce my point .
I think part of the reason Sharper was released is because he called out the coaching staff last season after a particularly bad loss (see the browns game) . Other than that it was a financial move . If you say he was in decline ... i beg to differ , his stats for 2002 almost completely mirror those of 2004 in which he lead the league in SOLO tackles and was eigth in total tackles .
http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/4250
By the way , Sharper is listed as the Seahawks starter at ROLB this season.

Glenns stats from 2002 and 2004 are almost a mirror image , http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/3505 .
I will agree that they needed to find his eventual replacement but he was released because of his salary . Had the Texans kept him they would have arguably the best secondary in the AFC and possibly the NFL .

If they wanted to re-vamp the defense Sharper wasnt the place to start , they should have started with those players who WERENT producing . Foreman and Gary Walker would have been a Very Good place to start .In their defense they did draft T.Johnson who could be Walkers replacement very soon .

why? becuase we didnt draft him in the first round? Because his name isnt Orlando Pace?


Rliey may make me eat crow .... and for Carr's sake I hope he does .
On the subject of Orlando Pace .... that would have been a Terrible move on the part of the Texans giving up two #1's for someone who would not be a LONG TERM solution to their problems at LT , Riley is probably not a long term solution either and before training camp was listed behind the pathetic S.Wand on the depth chart .
The fact that they have had to change their whole passing philosophy based on the fact the O-line cant protect Carr should raise RED FLAGS all around .

yah i know.. and we will probably all die too. And a comet will hit houston. and the bubonic plague will spread across america. and the oceans will overflow and god will point and laugh at us. wow it sucks to be alive.

I thought we were talking Football , not the end of civilization as we know it :bomb:
The steelers have been playing without a quality TE since the early 90s.

So you agree Bruener isnt a quality TE ?

Matter of fact.. ALOT of teams in the NFL seem to get by just fine without a superstar TE. A TE is not essential to a good offense.


I did not say they need a Superstar TE , only one servicable in both facets of the positions requirements . One that can Catch the ball and block .... im not asking for Tony Gonzalez or Antonio Gates , just a servicable player .

why? cause you havent seen their name mentioned on Sportscenter? We have a VERY talented group of young WRs. We are going to have a very hard time picking which ones to keep and who to cut.


When are the Texans EVER on sports center ?

I agree that they do have some talented young recievers and that deciding who to keep will be a TOUGH decision ..... But we will probably see the same Bradford and Gaffeny come opening day .... Both of whom have been outplayed during pre-season by Swinton , Mathis and S.Thomas .
Thomas having been the most consistant and complete reciever on the roster thus far .


leaders?? sharper demanded a leader and yet he was not ready for that role himself.

Sharper was pointing fingers at the coaching staff ...Probably the reason he is no longer with the team .

If you have no threats in the front seven why would you cut the best player of the front seven and try to improve on that position? Their are six other weaker players but we leave them alone?

My point exactly . Sharper was the most productive player on the D other than maybe Dunta Robinson .

If you wanna fume about something, your fuming about the wrong thing. Fume about getting NOTHING for these players... I would join you. Glenn is worth from some team at LEAST a third and Foreman at least a 6th or 5th. Sharper would be worth at least a 2nd.

This was part of my original post .... they got ZERO Compensation for these players . I think the reason they got no compensation was that Every GM in the league knew that the Texans would release these players eventually (especially in the case of Sharper based on his statements about the coaching staff after the Browns game) .... why pay for something you can get for free .
I think Foreman had Zero value considering he is a borderline starter and was injured .

Giving Sharper and Glenn's play the credit it is due, they are worth some draft pick. The problem was a trade involves taking on their current contract and they weren't worth their contracts with the Texans. That is clearly demonstrated by the fact that they both signed contracts worth a third or less of their Texans' contract. No team was going to pay a draft pick for the privilege of paying over market price on their cap.

You have a solid point there ... As i stated before they were cost cutting moves by the Texans . The problem i have here is that they didnt use the extra funds to upgrade the team in any other area .

I would have liked to have seen us keep Glenn and our draft picks and get Justin Miller or some other db and let Glenn groom him like he did with Robinson. Then we could have used our 2nd or additional 3rd on the OL or somewhere else. I know all about how Casserly/Capers think that Buchanon is better than anything they could have drafted but I am not sold on that. Keeping Glenn and getting a young db is much better than getting an underachieving db and losing Glenn. I will admit though that if Buchanon can be coached into being what he was once thought by many to have the potential to be out of college Hoke is the man to do it.


I agree with your alternative completely .... and on the subject of Buchanon , If Hoke cant make him a solid DB then it just cant be done .

:goodnight

Grid
08-29-2005, 03:22 PM
You mean fans who think this team has been mistake free . They arent mistake free in their personel decisions ... far from it

no :) i mean fans who are knowledgable enough to watch the preseason game and not be concerned with the fact that we blew a pass, or got intercepted.. because they can still see improvements in key areas. Its not rose colored glasses.. its seeing the whole picture.. not just the highlight reel.

this team looks alot better.

and BTW.. some of the most knowledgable fans on this board have their "whines" too. If im not mistaken.. I think even Vinny is "anti-Carr" to a certain degree.

think part of the reason Sharper was released is because he called out the coaching staff last season after a particularly bad loss (see the browns game)

I think youre looking for drama when there isnt any. I think Sharper was cut for exactly why it was said he was cut. He was slow.. he was old.. he was weak in coverage..and it just wasnt a fit for the defense we wanted to run.

Capers is a defensive genius. You may disagree with that.. but from everything I have heard.. Capers knows what he is doing when it comes to defense. If Capers is not able to run an effective defense because we dont have enough speed at ILB.. then we need to replace our ILBs. and we did.

If Sharpers tackle stats are the big issue.... well. Sharper had 137 last year and 41 assists. Greenwood had 108 last year, and 42 assists. Not too shabby. a difference of about 2 tackles per game. and Greenwood gives us the speed we want. Plus.. in our defense our ILBs get more tackle opportunities than Greenwood was getting in Miami. So.. time will tell.. but I think Greenwood is gonna work out just fine for us.

The fact that they have had to change their whole passing philosophy based on the fact the O-line cant protect Carr should raise RED FLAGS all around

yah..we dont have the best pass defending Oline in the league.. course.. 30 other teams dont have the best pass defending Oline in the league either. The blame for Carr getting sacked so many times last year can be laid at the feet of our Oline, as well as the protection schemes we were using. So we changed our schemes, and we designed plays to get the ball out of Carrs hands faster. We are fixing the problem.. working with what we have. thats a good thing.

So you agree Bruener isnt a quality TE ?


yes I do. he is average.

I did not say they need a Superstar TE , only one servicable in both facets of the positions requirements . One that can Catch the ball and block .... im not asking for Tony Gonzalez or Antonio Gates , just a servicable player .

well we have "servicable" tight ends. They CAN catch the ball.. and they CAN block.. they just arent spectacular at either.

But we will probably see the same Bradford and Gaffeny come opening day .... Both of whom have been outplayed during pre-season by Swinton , Mathis and S.Thomas .


Gaffney has been injured.. so you cant say he has been outplayed. Bradford though, i agree. I wish we would just let him go and promote Armstrong or Swinton or Mathis or Thomas.. SOMEONE.. Bradford has never impressed me and id like to see one of our other guys get the chance to show his stuff.

rmartin65
08-29-2005, 03:29 PM
it is kind of unfair to judge gaffney. but id like mathis up there somehow, taking bradford's or gaffney's spot. mathis can fly.

Vinny
08-29-2005, 04:04 PM
and BTW.. some of the most knowledgable fans on this board have their "whines" too. If im not mistaken.. I think even Vinny is "anti-Carr" to a certain degree. That's just ignorant. If I break down a players game and it's not favorable it doesn't mean I am anti-anything. I'm not going to call bad play good, and good play bad because I just feel like it. It's just honest observation. Some of you guys just don't seem able to grasp the concept of honest observation sometimes.

tsip
08-29-2005, 04:07 PM
That's just ignorant. If I break down a players game and it's not favorable it doesn't mean I am anti-anything. I'm not going to call bad play good, and good play bad because I just feel like it. It's just honest observation. Some of you guys just don't seem able to grasp the concept of honest observation sometimes.

...very well said :texflag:

HoustonHarley
08-29-2005, 04:33 PM
Thank you Vinny, my sentiments exactly! As far as the things that are being said in this thread. For the most part, they are true. If you read any other football articles concerning the Texans problems and solutions, they mentioned the same things. We all look through rose colored glasses to an extent. If you think we have improved that much from what you have seen in preseason, I want to watch a game with you and you explain as we go because obviously I don't know anything about football. I did play for about 14 years and thought I had pretty good knowledge of the sport. I AM a Texan fan and I haven't seen the improvement that you speak of. My glasses are off and this is just my honest opinion.

WWJD
08-29-2005, 04:38 PM
IF the Texans aren't improved record-wise I do feel the coach is on the hot seat. I'm not sure if that would be Palmer or Coach Capers or both but I think they are under the microscope if you will.

I do believe people expect more out of David this year.

Corrosion
08-29-2005, 05:02 PM
no :) i mean fans who are knowledgable enough to watch the preseason game and not be concerned with the fact that we blew a pass, or got intercepted.. because they can still see improvements in key areas. Its not rose colored glasses.. its seeing the whole picture.. not just the highlight reel..


I never mentioned a particular event in any game thus far ...Sure , its pre-season and the games dont count . Im just pointing out some fundamental personel decisions i think were poorly made .

As for seeing improvement in some area's .... there are a few . The running game looks very solid . DD amd Morency both over 4.5 ypc , is a vast improvement over last years dismal avg of 3.9 .

Special teams will again be a strong point of the team , even better than past years when the special teams alone kept the team in a couple games .

Their performance on thrid down .... cant say enough about the Cowpokes going 0-9 on third down ..... that is a huge improvement.

Just because someone has a differing opinion than yours doesnt make them any less knowledgable a fan .... :challenge

I think youre looking for drama when there isnt any. ..

Not at all , Capers cut the drama before there was any .... For better or worse . Lets just hope that Morlon Greenwood can play better than what Foreman did at that position (I fully expect he will be an upgrade over Foreman ). I was one of the biggest Foreman critics on this board .... i have no problem with his release . :yahoo:

Capers is a defensive genius. ..

Capers has had 4 seasons to assemble players who fit his system , He and Fangio better produce a top 10 D this year if you expect me to agree with that statement .... They did have a stellar D while in Caroline in 99 but that was a 4-3 system ....with arguably better personel . The jury is still out on whether Capers is as advertized .

yah..we dont have the best pass defending Oline in the league.. course.. 30 other teams dont have the best pass defending Oline in the league either. The blame for Carr getting sacked so many times last year can be laid at the feet of our Oline, as well as the protection schemes we were using. So we changed our schemes, and we designed plays to get the ball out of Carrs hands faster. We are fixing the problem.. working with what we have. thats a good thing.

To be blunt , 31 teams allowed less sacks than the Texans last season (Thats ALL of'm) . Not to mention all the times Carr was hit as he released or threw the ball away to avoid a sack ..... those were probably more numerous .
As for the changes in their schemes . If they bring about more consistant production from the offensive unit , Ill be the first to give them due credit . I havent figured out if its the personel or the schemes or a combination of the two that are to blame for the fundamental breakdowns they cosisitantly show in pass protection .
A lot rides on the play of Victor Riley this season .... one injury and they can be back at square one .

well we have "servicable" tight ends. They CAN catch the ball.. and they CAN block.. they just arent spectacular at either.

Sure , One CAN catch and the other CAN block , just seems to me that neither of them are very effective . Maybe Murphy will show he can do both .

Bradford though, i agree. I wish we would just let him go and promote Armstrong or Swinton or Mathis or Thomas.. SOMEONE.. Bradford has never impressed me and id like to see one of our other guys get the chance to show his stuff.

At least we agree on this point .... and that Hollings needs to get a pink slip ! :yahoo:
I think they re-signed Bradford for a lack of a better option within their price range .

That's just ignorant. If I break down a players game and it's not favorable it doesn't mean I am anti-anything. I'm not going to call bad play good, and good play bad because I just feel like it. It's just honest observation. Some of you guys just don't seem able to grasp the concept of honest observation sometimes.

We are all fans of the Texans ...just some of us are a little more critical of the team than others . I call'm like i see'm

Grid
08-29-2005, 05:37 PM
Vinny i said "somewhat" :). It was worded badly.. but i was responding to Corrosions statement that the so called "knowledgable fans" were homers who think we are mistake free.

I was trying to point out that you have ragged on Carr in the past... not that you were a raging anti-carr fanatic :P.

It was intended as a compliment (including you in the "knowledgable fan" group)

LBC_Justin
08-29-2005, 08:24 PM
I agree we had a horrible off season...

Capers is a total *****. Here is what he should have done.

He should have gotten the following players in the offseason.

Offense:
QB - Peyton Manning, Carr is backup
RB - Shawn Alexander, DD is backup
Move Andre Johnson to #3 reciever with Randy Moss, and T.O. on the team
LT - Orlando Pace
RT - Walter Jones (Have him try a new position)
TE - T Gonzalez

Defense:
Ray Lewis and Lawerance Taylor at LB
Champ Bailey goes opposite Dunta Robinson move PB to nickel
Julius Peppers and Dwight Freeney rushing the passer

I'll be realistic and not replace everyone

Gosh how hard was that!!! It only took me 5 minutes to come up with a winning strategy.

:texflag:

texan279
08-29-2005, 09:16 PM
Ummm..he didn't call anyone anything, he said the statement was ignorant...and it was, Vinny is the farthest from a homer that you can get on this message board...he just calls 'em likes he sees 'em...

wags
08-29-2005, 09:20 PM
Ummm..he didn't call anyone anything, he said the statement was ignorant...and it was, Vinny is the farthest from a homer that you can get on this message board...he just calls 'em likes he sees 'em...

Vinny? I thought IBAR was as far from a homer as you could get?

texan279
08-29-2005, 09:27 PM
Vinny? I thought IBAR was as far from a homer as you could get?

Nah, IBAR is just a pessimistic closet Cowboy fan...J/K IBAR! :tv: :tomato:

mj.
08-29-2005, 09:30 PM
btw... i was watching the Seahawks/Chiefs game on NFL Network and the Seattle announcers said:

"Jamie Sharper has been a disappointment. He hasn't brought the impact and leadership they expected when they signed him."

also, Jay Foreman is second-string for the Raiders behind starters Danny Clark and Tim Johnson.

profan
08-29-2005, 10:29 PM
Cause for concern? Yes
Do we need to take drastic measures? No
Do we have serious evaluation of the coaches and players at end of year? Yes

SESupergenius
08-29-2005, 10:49 PM
btw... i was watching the Seahawks/Chiefs game on NFL Network and the Seattle announcers said:

"Jamie Sharper has been a disappointment. He hasn't brought the impact and leadership they expected when they signed him."

also, Jay Foreman is second-string for the Raiders behind starters Danny Clark and Tim Johnson.
That was early on, Then after that game they said that Sharper stepped it up a lot this game and where happy to see the defense playing as a unit now.

BornOrange
08-29-2005, 11:06 PM
1. Jamie Sharper may have had a lot of tackles, but a lot of that is due to the defensive scheme. The problem is that he wasn't making enough of those tackles at the line of scrimmage and head-on with ball carriers but was making too many tackles after runners had made positive yardage. If you taped the games, go back and watch them. Capers has been coaching the 3-4 for a long time at New Orleans, Pittsburgh, and Carolina and knows that the ILB's need to be making tackles for losses or right at the line of scrimmage. They also need to be quick enough to cover RB's and TE's (and sometimes even WR's) while being able to blitz effectively. Sharper was definitely declining last year and would have been worse this year. Also, he had never been a leader on this team. He was a little upset that he had been taken in the expansion draft and had to play a losing team instead of being able to stay in Baltimore. He was happy to keep his big contract, but when he was about to enter the last year of his contract he showed what he really thought of being a Texan by not wanting to negotiate an extension. The Texans couldn't trade him because no team wanted to pay that much money for him. So the Texans had to cut him.

2. Aaron Glenn on the other hand was a very good leader. He especially did a lot helping to groom Robinson and Faggins. However, it was obvious last year that Glenn was also losing a step. Early in the season teams were picking on Robinson, but as he began to show that he was up to the task they started throwing more to Glenn's side. Everyone talks about how good the Texan's secondary was, but the fact remains that only Green Bay gave up more TD passes. Part of it was due to a poor pass rush, part of it was due to Robinson and Earl playing as rookies, but part of it was also due to Glenn slowing down. Again, watch tapes of last year's games. So the Texans went out and got Buchanon. Glenn himself said that the Texans wanted him back, but Glenn thought that between Robinson, Buchanon, Faggins, and himself that someone wasn't going to be getting enough playing time and that the young guys needed the playing time. Reading between the lines you could tell how much he likes Faggins and that he didn't want to compete for playing time against Petey. So he asked to be released.

Both of those moves were made with the intention of getting faster on defense. Everyone in the NFL recognizes that Capers is one of the best experts on defense. Have a little faith that he knows what this defense needs.

Kaiser Toro
08-29-2005, 11:52 PM
My concerns heading into this preseason for the first teams - not the draft or regular season were the following:

Offensive line - they have exceeded expectations with their run blocking and protection of Carr.

Defensive line - below par as I have not seen the penetration. Robaire Smith who I was proponent of when we signed him has been a huge dissapointment, but has the talent to turn it around.

LB's - I have liked what I have seen, the speed is evident just needs to be harnessed.

Secondary - Other than Faggins ill fated 1st quarter I have not been overly concerned. Would have liked to see Buchanon tested, but it is pre season. CC Brown will prove to be a very good value pick, not saying an all pro, but a serviceable player.

RB - Take away the goal line stuff and you have to be happy. Davis has shown a nose for the goal line in the past. Not concerned here.

WR - AJ dropping balls is a concern, but like the cadre.

QB - Never been a Carr fan, but have been willing to drink the kool aid. However, this guy needs to make better decisions and look confident in and outside of the pocket. If Davis becomes his first or second look again this year it is time to cut our losses with Carr. I just do not feel he makes us better tangibly or intangibly.

Cheerleaders - maybe the only consistent uniformed personnel on the field. :drool:

I recognize these opinions are not measurable, but just my take.

Once again I do expect 8-8 which is continued improvement, but most importantly as a fourth year ticket holder I expect better value from the product on the field. :texflag:

dalemurphy
08-30-2005, 02:04 AM
QB - Never been a Carr fan, but have been willing to drink the kool aid. However, this guy needs to make better decisions and look confident in and outside of the pocket. If Davis becomes his first or second look again this year it is time to cut our losses with Carr. I just do not feel he makes us better tangibly or intangibly.

According to KC Joyner's book which breaks down the passing game with more detail than anything to date, the three best decision-making QBs in the NFL last year were: Peyton Manning, Byron Leftwich, and David Carr. He graded every play of every NFL game. It's called Scientific Football and it's very interesting. The statistics are unparalleled and tell a much more accurate story than the typical football stats do.

His formula takes into account, whether he throws into tight coverage. If he doesn't throw to an open receiver, throwing a ball into the middle of the field as you're getting sacked, etc....

Ibar_Harry
08-30-2005, 02:15 AM
According to KC Joyner's book which breaks down the passing game with more detail than anything to date, the three best decision-making QBs in the NFL last year were: Peyton Manning, Byron Leftwich, and David Carr. He graded every play of every NFL game. It's called Scientific Football and it's very interesting. The statistics are unparalleled and tell a much more accurate story than the typical football stats do.

His formula takes into account, whether he throws into tight coverage. If he doesn't throw to an open receiver, throwing a ball into the middle of the field as you're getting sacked, etc....

That's with a poor OC to boot. I know Tedford is saying he will never leave CAL, but I know all of you would be very impressed if you watched what he can do with a team's offense and the QB. He really is an offensive genius, and yes, I would take him hands down over Norm Chow. By the way when Tedford left FSU(Fresno State) Carr almost went with him. They were very close. Had Carr gone with Tedford - Harrington might not be where he is today......................

dalemurphy
08-30-2005, 02:29 AM
That's with a poor OC to boot. I know Tedford is saying he will never leave CAL, but I know all of you would be very impressed if you watched what he can do with a team's offense and the QB. He really is an offensive genius, and yes, I would take him hands down over Norm Chow. By the way when Tedford left FSU(Fresno State) Carr almost went with him. They were very close. Had Carr gone with Tedford - Harrington might not be where he is today......................

If the team struggles much the next season or two, I would expect Palmer to be replaced. I think there are philosophical differences. Palmer is Martz-like without the creativity IMO... I think Capers would prefer an offense built around a power running game- something like a Dan Henning style offense or even something like what Denver runs under Shannihan.

Corrosion
08-30-2005, 05:24 PM
... I think Capers would prefer an offense built around a power running game- something like a Dan Henning style offense or even something like what Denver runs under Shannihan.


I think we both know you are absolutely correct in that assumption .
He much prefers a run dominated offense .... Smash mouth football.