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View Full Version : Take a deep breath, Texan Nation...


ThaShark316
08-28-2005, 10:39 AM
...Cuz it was only Preseason @ Dallas.

Hope some of you guys don't think this same stuff will happen on 9/11. Team is too well coached to let the same bs happen in BUF. Carr said that they weren't gonna show anything for Buffalo to key on for opening day, so don't read too much into it.

I know the game was ugly, but look at the positives for right now. Lookin at negatives in preseason only makes things worse. We're not the 49ers or Browns, we're not gonna go 4-12 this season, so stay optimistic and be ready for Buffalo on Sept. 11th.

Too many penalties,bad timing on some pass plays look bad, but wouldn't u rather it happen now, than in 2 weeks?

How 'bout the O-Line's job of protecting Carr for the most part, or the 1st team D? Not much, but they did pretty good I thought. What about the running game? See what I mean...my entire point is..when you watch preseason games, only look at positives, as negatives will only stress you out.

Peace!

- Tha Shark

powda
08-28-2005, 03:48 PM
Even if it is still preseason...... We are supppose to be a playoff team this year. people of houston have that expectation.


i would say a majority of casual fans dont have that expectation. as for the more informed fans who religiously pay attention to the draft, free agency, and attend message boards...the expectations are sometimes laughable. we are not a 15-1 team....nor are we a 1-15 team.

dont expect playoffs...expect improvment.

ATX
08-28-2005, 04:33 PM
In other news, Indy is 0-4 in preseason, Chicago is 3-1, Arizona is 3-0, Mcgahee rushed 21 times for 61 yards in his last game,
and Brett Favre was 9-21 for 69 yards. Just a thought.

William.carter
08-29-2005, 08:10 AM
I was impressed by the plays mathis was able to make and on the plays he wasn't. Dallas' D was showing his a lot of much deserved respect. He even put a big block on a guy giving AJ an extra 10-15 yards of room. This kid is playing big. He will be a factor in our offense his rookie year. I think he'll have more precense than Bradford because he's shown his speed, strength, and hands. He is also a credible return threat. That's the type of flexibility that makes the roster IMHO.

What i would like to see, and unfortunately probably won't get the chance, is Sloan Thomas and Devin Pitts gets some reps with a QB that can actually throw a catachble ball their way. I think they have the tools and talent to make plays they just haven't had the opportunity to show it in the preseason. If they don't make the cut I hope the show up on the practice squad.

BigBull17
08-29-2005, 09:56 AM
In other news, Indy is 0-4 in preseason, Chicago is 3-1, Arizona is 3-0, Mcgahee rushed 21 times for 61 yards in his last game,
and Brett Favre was 9-21 for 69 yards. Just a thought.

So the Bears and Cardinals are gonna be in the NFC championship?

:texflag:

mancunian
08-29-2005, 10:30 AM
In other news, Indy is 0-4 in preseason, Chicago is 3-1, Arizona is 3-0, Mcgahee rushed 21 times for 61 yards in his last game,
and Brett Favre was 9-21 for 69 yards. Just a thought.

last year the teams that went to the SB were both 1- 3 in the pre season

Bubbajwp
08-29-2005, 12:15 PM
Thats why its called PREseason

Demon
08-29-2005, 01:09 PM
Yes, PRE-season. Nuttin' counts. But I am a little concerned (and maybe it isn't warranted) that we are scoring field goals and no TD's. :embarrass I'd like to see some Texans in the end zone. I agree, though, let's wait before we get concerned too much. Buffalo will be the measuring stick.

Diehardtexan
08-29-2005, 01:20 PM
It's better to get after them now and let them know that we don't take mediocrity laying down.
I think it's good that they sucked this week, that way they know that they should get their act together. We will see how they shape up on the final game of the preseason. That should let us how they respond to criticism. Also if I'm Palmer and Caper, I wouldn't get comfortable behind the wheel. :bomb:

Capster67
08-29-2005, 01:41 PM
I know I may be an exception, but my motto is always strive for excellence: preseason, regular season, post season. I will never understand folks who think we can go through the motions and feel okay about a losing record (preseason or regular season) at any time. If we don't estalish a winning identity now (preseason) I have little confidence that we will in the regular season. Right now this team has the look of a 5-11 team.

Grid
08-29-2005, 01:51 PM
Look at what is working.

Our running game is looking better than it ever has. DD averaged 4.9 per carry and Morency averaged 5.0.

Our return game looks like its going to be electric. Special teams are gonna be a strength of this team. And if our running game is working well..we may actually be able to do something with our good field position this year.

Our defense looked good. You can say what ya want about them and what they did wrong.. but our first string defense did a heck of a job and stuffed Dallas on multiple occaisons. I saw alot of tackles for a loss..and good pressure on bledsoe.



Looks to me like we have all the makings here of a postseason team. A running game that can control the clock. A great defense. And special teams capable of taking it to the house, or at least getting us good field position. Thats the total package.. and we arent even seeing half of what we are capable of yet.

ATX
08-29-2005, 02:12 PM
I know I may be an exception, but my motto is always strive for excellence: preseason, regular season, post season. I will never understand folks who think we can go through the motions and feel okay about a losing record (preseason or regular season) at any time. If we don't estalish a winning identity now (preseason) I have little confidence that we will in the regular season. Right now this team has the look of a 5-11 team.

Indy is 0-4, so they're gonna go 3-13 i guess.

tsip
08-29-2005, 02:17 PM
I know I may be an exception, but my motto is always strive for excellence: preseason, regular season, post season. I will never understand folks who think we can go through the motions and feel okay about a losing record (preseason or regular season) at any time. If we don't estalish a winning identity now (preseason) I have little confidence that we will in the regular season. Right now this team has the look of a 5-11 team.

Nice post. Why have a preseason if you're going to give 'half effort?'
And, there is the scoring factor that Grid fails to mention. I thought you
had to out score the opponent to win--stupid me--guess all you need is
defense and clock control...7 pts by the 1st team in 3 games....I know,
they were only on the field for a few plays...

tsip
08-29-2005, 02:19 PM
Indy is 0-4, so they're gonna go 3-13 i guess.

big difference here--like the 1-3 Pats last year--is a history of winning and
going to the playoffs..

Corrosion
08-29-2005, 02:29 PM
Our running game is looking better than it ever has. DD averaged 4.9 per carry and Morency averaged 5.0..

For once we agree ...

If the Texans can continue to run the ball effectively they have a shot . They MUST stay out of 2nd-3rd and long or again we will see Carr struggle .The running game is of utmost importance to the success of this team . So far .... So good

Our return game looks like its going to be electric. Special teams are gonna be a strength of this team. And if our running game is working well..we may actually be able to do something with our good field position this year

The Texans special teams do look to be very good ....Winning the field position battle is a big part of winning on the scoreboard .... again we go back to the running game . Probably the key to their whole season .


Our defense looked good. You can say what ya want about them and what they did wrong.. but our first string defense did a heck of a job and stuffed Dallas on multiple occaisons.

Dallas going 0-9 on 3rd down was a nice change ..... lets hope they can continue that trend .

rmartin65
08-29-2005, 02:31 PM
I was impressed by the plays mathis was able to make and on the plays he wasn't. Dallas' D was showing his a lot of much deserved respect. He even put a big block on a guy giving AJ an extra 10-15 yards of room. This kid is playing big. He will be a factor in our offense his rookie year. I think he'll have more precense than Bradford because he's shown his speed, strength, and hands. He is also a credible return threat. That's the type of flexibility that makes the roster IMHO.

What i would like to see, and unfortunately probably won't get the chance, is Sloan Thomas and Devin Pitts gets some reps with a QB that can actually throw a catachble ball their way. I think they have the tools and talent to make plays they just haven't had the opportunity to show it in the preseason. If they don't make the cut I hope the show up on the practice squad.
could not agree more. mathis has been better than i could have dreamed. he's got speed, blocks really well and can play special teams

Grid
08-29-2005, 02:36 PM
Nice post. Why have a preseason if you're going to give 'half effort?'
And, there is the scoring factor that Grid fails to mention. I thought you
had to out score the opponent to win--stupid me--guess all you need is
defense and clock control

your still stuck on the half effort thing. ill spell it out one more time.

WE -- DO -- NOT -- PLAY -- TO -- WIN -- IN -- PRESEASON

we are evaluating and working on rythme.



You seem to be more interested in scoring than defense and clock control. Cant win games without both. Capers puts more emphasis on defense and clock control than scoring. Nothing wrong with that. You can win a game with 3 points.

dalemurphy
08-30-2005, 01:40 AM
Nice post. Why have a preseason if you're going to give 'half effort?'
And, there is the scoring factor that Grid fails to mention. I thought you
had to out score the opponent to win--stupid me--guess all you need is
defense and clock control...7 pts by the 1st team in 3 games....I know,
they were only on the field for a few plays...


It's not half-effort. However, the primary concern isn't winning the game. Aside from the obvious (Carr and DD playing very little to risk injury), here are some examples:

1. against Oakland, we were driving in the 2nd quarter and had a 3rd and 1. Hollings was given the ball twice and didn't get the 1st. Now, the effort and desire by the coaches and players was to get the first and score some points. However, instead of putting Davis in or even Morency or running a bootleg, Qb sneak, etc... The coaches wanted to give Hollings an opportunity to see if he could make something happen in short yardage. They did it again against Dallas on the 2 point conversion... He'll be cut next week.

2. Against Oakland, Wand played RG and was horrible. They left him there for three quarters. In a regular season game, he'd have been yanked in the 1st- though they probably wouldn't have even tried that in the regular season. But, in the preseason, they wanted to evaluate him there or teach him something, etc...

3. Tony Banks!- he was playing in the first quarter against Oakland and Denver

bckey
08-30-2005, 02:21 AM
You seem to be more interested in scoring than defense and clock control. Cant win games without both. Capers puts more emphasis on defense and clock control than scoring. Nothing wrong with that. You can win a game with 3 points.

Well then IMHO we wasted our 2002 #1 draft pick.

ccdude730
08-30-2005, 03:18 AM
Well then IMHO we wasted our 2002 #1 draft pick.
now that is pretty rediculous.

the coaching strategy with our team is to limit points, and control the ball.

and in order to control the ball you need an effective offense that CAN score and CAN get you a crucial first down in the 4th quarter to keep the clock rollin. we are not the colts who try to outscore everyone, but rather a team who tries to keep the other team from scoring while capitalizing on turnovers and having the ABILITY to score at will if we are down.

they started out with a veteran defense to keep us in games and a youthful offense to work with and develop into guys who can _______________. (lets say it together "control the ball" )

to add to that, most teams build offenses around young QBs. david carr was that young guy who is the undisputed leader of the Houston Texans who has the respect of EVERYONE in and out of that locker room. you think he didnt ask to get pulled out his first year because he liked taking a beating? he was in no way a wasted pick.
:texans:

HJam72
08-30-2005, 03:46 AM
Personally, I think the idea that we are a "ball control" team gets over-played. We run a lot and, when we do pass, it's a lot of short passes and dump-offs (mostly). What choice have we had? Our O-line has been great at run blocking and crud for pass blocking for the sum total of its existence. Plus, we have DD who runs well and sucks up dump-off passes for positive yardage. I think they're trying to build an all around well-balanced team, but it's still in the making because some pieces have inevitably not worked out--like Seth Wand and Benny Joppru getting hurt every time he walks onto a field. It LOOKS like our O-line will be improved this year. Maybe we'll see more scoring and less leaning on the defense to keep it close. I can't help hoping.

Oh, and Carr is going to be just fine. Johnson looked foolish against Dallas too, but I sure don't see people calling him a waisted pick.

dalemurphy
08-30-2005, 04:39 AM
Well then IMHO we wasted our 2002 #1 draft pick.

Let's see:

Terry Bradshaw (pittsburgh wasted a high pick on him, too?)
John Elway (denver/Baltimore wasted a high pick on him?)
Troy Aikman (wasted pick?)
Steve McNair (wasted pick?)
Ben Rothlisburger (wasted pick?)
Phil Simms (wasted pick?)
Bob Griese (wasted pick?)
Mike Vick (wasted pick?)

above is a list off the top of my head of high first round draft picks (QBs) who had success mainly in run dominated systems.


Dan Marino
Jim Kelly
Dan Fouts
Dante Culpepper
Donovan McNabb
Peyton Manning
Warren Moon (highly recruited from CFL)


above is a list of high first round draft picks (QBs) who had success in pass first systems. Joe Montana and Steve Young actually played in a very balanced offense but I couldn't in good faith call it run dominated. So, I'm leaving them off both lists

tsip
08-30-2005, 05:51 AM
Let's see:

Terry Bradshaw (pittsburgh wasted a high pick on him, too?)
John Elway (denver/Baltimore wasted a high pick on him?)
Troy Aikman (wasted pick?)
Steve McNair (wasted pick?)
Ben Rothlisburger (wasted pick?)
Phil Simms (wasted pick?)
Bob Griese (wasted pick?)
Mike Vick (wasted pick?)

above is a list off the top of my head of high first round draft picks (QBs) who had success mainly in run dominated systems.


Dan Marino
Jim Kelly
Dan Fouts
Dante Culpepper
Donovan McNabb
Peyton Manning
Warren Moon (highly recruited from CFL)


above is a list of high first round draft picks (QBs) who had success in pass first systems. Joe Montana and Steve Young actually played in a very balanced offense but I couldn't in good faith call it run dominated. So, I'm leaving them off both lists

common thread---all of those players were on teams that put a priority
on scoring points and they all had good passing stats/running stats--
winning teams, so what exactly is your point?? :confused:

dalemurphy
08-30-2005, 08:15 AM
common thread---all of those players were on teams that put a priority
on scoring points and they all had good passing stats/running stats--
winning teams, so what exactly is your point?? :confused:


My point is that teams that are run-dominate can make very good use of quarterbacks as well. Not only does history show that a balanced or run-based gameplan is usually superior in the NFL, but also quarterbacks are just as important and valuable in those systems.

Troy Aikman never threw more than 23 Tds in one season yet he was a vital piece to the three superbowls, he was the number one overall pick, he'll soon be in the hall of fame, and I don't believe he was a wasted pick. The previous assertion was that if we're going to be a running team then we wasted our pick on David Carr.

dalemurphy
08-30-2005, 08:19 AM
Further comparison between Carr and Aikman:

Aikman's 3rd year: 7.6 yards per attempt, 11 TDs, 10 ints... in 12 games.
Carr's 3rd year: 7.6 yards per attempt, 16 TDs, 14 ints... in 16 games.

The key to Carr's value isn't whether he throws for 4500 yards and 30tds, it is whether he is respected by the opposing defense, can convert 3rd downs, make plays when he has the opportunity, and make consistantly good decisions.

Corrosion
08-30-2005, 08:48 AM
The key to Carr's value isn't whether he throws for 4500 yards and 30tds, it is whether he is respected by the opposing defense, can convert 3rd downs, make plays when he has the opportunity, and make consistantly good decisions.


I couldnt have said it better myself :texflag:

tsip
08-30-2005, 09:06 AM
Further comparison between Carr and Aikman:

Aikman's 3rd year: 7.6 yards per attempt, 11 TDs, 10 ints... in 12 games.
Carr's 3rd year: 7.6 yards per attempt, 16 TDs, 14 ints... in 16 games.

The key to Carr's value isn't whether he throws for 4500 yards and 30tds, it is whether he is respected by the opposing defense, can convert 3rd downs, make plays when he has the opportunity, and make consistantly good decisions.

This team's passing offense disappeared the last half of 2004, something
no team can be expected to win from. Who's fault? Yes, we need a lot
from Carr--the QBs you mentioned all had great supporting cast, meaning
Carr obviously can not do it by himself.

Too, I don't agree with the concept of limiting our options down to clock
control and defense alone---we don't want to be predictable. The last 2
Super Bowls have been 'shootouts,' with each team pulling out all stops
to win. No, we don't have to pass for a zillion yards or light up the season
with 100 tds but-and I believe this is important (all the QB's you mention
could do this)-when needed to win, we've got to be able to find ways to
score.

michaelm
08-30-2005, 10:09 AM
Well then IMHO we wasted our 2002 #1 draft pick.

Congratulations for making what is possibly the silliest post I've ever read...

BigBull17
08-30-2005, 11:45 AM
The last 2
Super Bowls have been 'shootouts,' with each team pulling out all stops
to win. No, we don't have to pass for a zillion yards or light up the season
with 100 tds but-and I believe this is important (all the QB's you mention
could do this)-when needed to win, we've got to be able to find ways to
score.

24-21 is a shoot out?

bckey
08-30-2005, 12:16 PM
Congratulations for making what is possibly the silliest post I've ever read...

It was a joke about only needing 3 points. I've been a Carr supporter since day one. Lighten up. Everybody on this particular bb seems to be ready to slam anyone they perceive to be against their own beliefs.

z0rpAn
08-30-2005, 01:16 PM
well on the bright side of things, I will enjoy this picture I found at nfl.com for a while...
http://images.nfl.com/u/ap/photos/IRV103082721_lower.jpg
just look at bledsoes face :tv:

Texas
08-30-2005, 01:33 PM
I am going to go along with the people who are urging the fact that its PRE-season. We are not going to show anything until regular season. At least nothing that will really detail how are season will go. You wont see much from the starters. The only people you will see doing there best and giving there all is the rookies and vets who are struggling for position. The buffalo game will be the measuring stick for our season IMO.

LBC_Justin
08-30-2005, 01:36 PM
Yes, PRE-season. Nuttin' counts. But I am a little concerned (and maybe it isn't warranted) that we are scoring field goals and no TD's. :embarrass I'd like to see some Texans in the end zone. I agree, though, let's wait before we get concerned too much. Buffalo will be the measuring stick.
I dissagree I don't think one game will be a measuring stick. I think the first 4 games will tell you where we are at as a team.

LBC_Justin
08-30-2005, 01:50 PM
I know I may be an exception, but my motto is always strive for excellence: preseason, regular season, post season. I will never understand folks who think we can go through the motions and feel okay about a losing record (preseason or regular season) at any time. If we don't estalish a winning identity now (preseason) I have little confidence that we will in the regular season. Right now this team has the look of a 5-11 team.
Here is the problem. If you truely strive for excellence in the preseason you actually make it more difficult to achieve excellence in the regular season because of injuries(players are more likely to get injured at the beginning of the season), plus you give your regular season opponents some good game film to gameplan off of.

Regular season is about not getting hurt and evaluating individuals.
Sometimes you win, sometimes you don't. The coaches act like they are trying to win but trust me they don't give a crap. The coaches actually overplay how much they care about preseason results because people are paying to attend the games.

So relax and enjoy the show. :tv: This is going to be our best season yet.

El Tejano
08-30-2005, 02:00 PM
Well to me the organization is kind of worried also. You can hear it in Casserly's voice when he talks to the announcers in the second half.

bckey
08-30-2005, 02:06 PM
Here is the problem. If you truely strive for excellence in the preseason you actually make it more difficult to achieve excellence in the regular season because of injuries(players are more likely to get injured at the beginning of the season), plus you give your regular season opponents some good game film to gameplan off of.


I still don't understand why people think that in preseason you don't show any plays because teams will be able to gameplan against you. If that thinking was true then you could never put your offense on the field in regular season because the team you play next week would have good game film of you to gameplan off of. If anything we run alot of basic plays to evaluate players.

ATX
08-30-2005, 03:12 PM
I just don't think we show everything in the book during preseason. Why give Buffalo an advantage by showing everything we got. When reg season starts it's a different story, you want to use more plays because you want to win. You can't help if other teams see that and gameplan against it.

tsip
08-30-2005, 07:49 PM
24-21 is a shoot out?

OK, let me spell it out for you--both teams never quit trying to score in
this game vs 'sitting on the ball.' There were 45 1st downs, 6 Tds, and
700 yds of offense. Certainly, turnovers were a factor against the Eagles-
4 vs 1 for the Pats. Penalties were not a major issue, below 100yds combined
for both teams.

This was definitely not a 'you don't score, we don't score game.' But,
humor yourself and call it what you want---I'm not so bored that I'll make
a 'big' deal out of your choice/opinion. :hairpull:

BigBull17
08-31-2005, 11:40 AM
OK, let me spell it out for you--both teams never quit trying to score in
this game vs 'sitting on the ball.' There were 45 1st downs, 6 Tds, and
700 yds of offense. Certainly, turnovers were a factor against the Eagles-
4 vs 1 for the Pats. Penalties were not a major issue, below 100yds combined
for both teams.

This was definitely not a 'you don't score, we don't score game.' But,
humor yourself and call it what you want---I'm not so bored that I'll make
a 'big' deal out of your choice/opinion. :hairpull:

If you have 45 first downs and only 6 tds Then you ARE slowing down the tempo and trying to sit on the ball. The amount of yards is irrelevant. It wasnt Colts v Chiefs throwing to the endzone every three plays, it was line up and ram it down your throats until you fall over football. Do I need to spell it out some more?
:twocents:

ROYDESTROY
09-01-2005, 03:59 AM
Further comparison between Carr and Aikman:

Aikman's 3rd year: 7.6 yards per attempt, 11 TDs, 10 ints... in 12 games.
Carr's 3rd year: 7.6 yards per attempt, 16 TDs, 14 ints... in 16 games.

The key to Carr's value isn't whether he throws for 4500 yards and 30tds, it is whether he is respected by the opposing defense, can convert 3rd downs, make plays when he has the opportunity, and make consistantly good decisions.

I agree but leadership and accuracy were two of Aikman's key traits as well.

touttail
09-01-2005, 12:17 PM
Loved the photo of Bledsoe getting hit. Now that's a "photographer"!
Texans need to sign him/her!!!!!

Bobby 119C