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View Full Version : Richard Justice already calling for scalps ?


nunusguy
08-28-2005, 10:16 AM
"It's the kind of performance that raises larger questions about the direction of the franchise and the competence of the people running it. Preseason games don't provide answers."
http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/sports/3328183
**************************************************
Chronicle write Justice is getting right to it - we're not even done with
preseason games and sounds like he's just about ready to have McNair clean
house. I'm not sure he even wants Cass to fire people cause he may want
the GM gone to. Anyway, if anybody ever doubted the Honeymoon was over,
hey its over ! I'm gonna wait till the Bye week, at which time I think we can make a realistic assesment of where the Texans are, before that its premature. But looks like the local media will be very impatient with the team if they don't produce in a very positive manner this year.

Marcus
08-28-2005, 10:26 AM
Just what the hell do you expect from Richard Justice? He flops around more than a bull redfish on a Galveston fishing pier.

Look at how many times he has trashed, and then praised Drayton McLane this season.

bckey
08-28-2005, 11:14 AM
I agree with Justice.

BREAZE
08-28-2005, 11:18 AM
I hope this local media continues to be critical of this team throughout the year. The organization has done everything right so far. I love the arena, the fans, the draft picks, the uniforms, the tailgating, the owner, the culture…etc. I’m sold! The big question mark has always been the coaches and we have reached the time where that answer becomes clearer. For example, there was not one special teams play that did not yield a flag last night. The funny thing was when they showed a replay you could pick out 4 additional penalties which could have been called…is this how they are being coached?? Dare I mention Chris Palmer and write a novel?

If McNair and Casserly are serious about being a contender (and I truly think they are) they should know by now that this system is incapable of yielding a ring. If these coaches don't fix some things pretty quick we could finish 6-10. Having some “proven” leadership would be a nice change…you know, some coaches with ice on their fingers!

nunusguy
08-28-2005, 11:55 AM
Expectations are really high this year for this team. I just hope this team can produce. People heads will roll if we don't go 8-8 this season.

I think it all depends on what kind of effort the team makes. Anybody should be able to see its very possible we're 0-2 at the Bye week, but that wouldn't
necessarily get me down on the Texans. If they play their hearts out, leave nothing on the field and lose a close game to Buffalo in its home opener and
come here and lose a close game to a bonafide SB contender in the Steelers - I can live with that. What I don't want to see is something along the lines
of last years sell out in Indy or that sorry effort in Denver.

bckey
08-28-2005, 01:17 PM
I hope this local media continues to be critical of this team throughout the year. The organization has done everything right so far. I love the arena, the fans, the draft picks, the uniforms, the tailgating, the owner, the culture…etc. I’m sold! The big question mark has always been the coaches and we have reached the time where that answer becomes clearer. For example, there was not one special teams play that did not yield a flag last night. The funny thing was when they showed a replay you could pick out 4 additional penalties which could have been called…is this how they are being coached?? Dare I mention Chris Palmer and write a novel?

If McNair and Casserly are serious about being a contender (and I truly think they are) they should know by now that this system is incapable of yielding a ring. If these coaches don't fix some things pretty quick we could finish 6-10. Having some “proven” leadership would be a nice change…you know, some coaches with ice on their fingers!

Great first post. Welcome to the boards. That post pretty much sums up my thoughts about the Texans.

the wonger need food
08-28-2005, 01:32 PM
Justice was too easy on them in my opinion. Last night's performance was absolutely pathetic. Actually, this makes 4 pathetic performances in a row by this team. This is the same mistake-riddled, inconsistent offensive system we've seen since 2002. Something's gotta give and soon.

Jwwillis
08-28-2005, 01:34 PM
I hope this local media continues to be critical of this team throughout the year. The organization has done everything right so far. I love the arena, the fans, the draft picks, the uniforms, the tailgating, the owner, the culture…etc. I’m sold! The big question mark has always been the coaches and we have reached the time where that answer becomes clearer. For example, there was not one special teams play that did not yield a flag last night. The funny thing was when they showed a replay you could pick out 4 additional penalties which could have been called…is this how they are being coached?? Dare I mention Chris Palmer and write a novel?

If McNair and Casserly are serious about being a contender (and I truly think they are) they should know by now that this system is incapable of yielding a ring. If these coaches don't fix some things pretty quick we could finish 6-10. Having some “proven” leadership would be a nice change…you know, some coaches with ice on their fingers!

Yea great 1st post. Calling for the coaches heads before the regular season begins. Typical. If changing coaches makes all the diffrence why is the "Big Tuna" in his 3rd year and STILL looking for a productive team? Oh! I bet I know. It takes a 3 to 5 year plan every time you change coaches. So, the answer is to start over even though the Texans win total has increased every year they have existed. I gotta tell you I just dont get the "fire all the coaches" threads. I'm sure McNair is a more level headed businessman, otherwise he would never have made enough money to afford an NFL franchise.

Jwwillis
08-28-2005, 01:36 PM
Justice was too easy on them in my opinion. Last night's performance was absolutely pathetic. Actually, this makes 4 pathetic performances in a row by this team. This is the same mistake-riddled, inconsistent offensive system we've seen since 2002. Something's gotta give and soon.


Local Trolls :challenge

Jwwillis
08-28-2005, 01:38 PM
I agree with Justice.

Justice is a joke. He flops more than Kerry.

the wonger need food
08-28-2005, 01:39 PM
Local Trolls :challenge

Local myopian.

Jwwillis
08-28-2005, 01:43 PM
Justice was too easy on them in my opinion. Last night's performance was absolutely pathetic. Actually, this makes 4 pathetic performances in a row by this team. This is the same mistake-riddled, inconsistent offensive system we've seen since 2002. Something's gotta give and soon.

You mean since 2002 there 1st year of existance? Shame on them, they should have been so much further along in '02 and '03. Stupid coaches cant bring us to the playoffs in the first 3 years of existance. Fire em all!!!!

the wonger need food
08-28-2005, 01:59 PM
Here come the company lines and excuses.

Other than the Rockets, every organization (and its fans) in this town has accepted mediocrity.

Jwwillis
08-28-2005, 02:05 PM
I accept what I get. Im a local fan. Im not an owner or GM. I choose to enjoy my local sports team not get an ulser thinking I can do better.

OzzO
08-28-2005, 02:09 PM
Did Justice have a point in that article? If it's to replace staff or players, I'd like to know who the "answers" are that will replace and be more productive than the people being discussed to remove.

tuxedo
08-28-2005, 02:12 PM
Justice was wrong.

the wonger need food
08-28-2005, 02:17 PM
I accept what I get. Im a local fan. Im not an owner or GM. I choose to enjoy my local sports team not get an ulser thinking I can do better.

Exactly... you've accepted mediocrity. Good for you... I guess.

Jwwillis
08-28-2005, 02:22 PM
I have not accepted your interpretation of the Texans. As a matter of fact, we couldn't be further apart in our opinions. Usually I have to wait on an opposing teams troll to have this much fun. Guess your helping with pre-season on the boards. /laf

lucky13
08-28-2005, 02:25 PM
He flops more than Kerry.

it's no big surprise you can't even spell "ulcer" below, TT.

Marcus
08-28-2005, 02:27 PM
I almost wish that Bob McNair would sell the team to Dan Snyder.

Then all these knee-jerk fire-everyone Justice worshippers would be happy.

What's really hilarious . . . is that when the Texans actually win a couple of games in a row, and that bandwagon hack Justice writes a column praising the coaches and staff for the good job they are doing, all you Justice sheep will be knodding your little heads like bobblehead dolls.

Baaaaaa . . . . baaaaaa

:challenge

Jwwillis
08-28-2005, 02:28 PM
it's no big surprise you can't even spell "ulcer" below, TT.

Is this a spelling B or a football forum? :cool:

OzzO
08-28-2005, 02:34 PM
I almost wish that Bob McNair would sell the team to Dan Snyder....

AHHH!! Don't EVEN say that. Quick, go knock on wood, throw some salt and find a black cat under a full moon or something. We can deal with the pessimists, just don't change owners. We've already been through the Bud years.

Marcus
08-28-2005, 02:40 PM
AHHH!! Don't EVEN say that. Quick, go knock on wood, throw some salt and find a black cat under a full moon or something. We can deal with the pessimists, just don't change owners. We've already been through the Bud years.

Please tell me that you know I was being sarcastic. :rolleyes:

OzzO
08-28-2005, 02:48 PM
Well, yeah. I know your style.

However, put that same sentence in the hands of others.... you wouldn't be so sure.

Crank_It_Up
08-28-2005, 03:09 PM
They started in 1960, and gave their head coach a five year contract. But after losing their first 4 seasons, the cowgirls didn't fire their head coach, instead they gave him a 10 year contract. For their belief and patience in their head coach, they were rewarded with an NFL-record 20 consecutive winning seasons between 1966 and '85, 13 NFC East titles, 5 NFC titles, and 2 Superbowls. But that was the pre-Jerry Jones era.

We've got a class act in Houston, an organization to be proud of. Sure it isn't perfect, yes it has some weak points, yes there is room for improvement. But certainly no reason to give up hope and panic at this stage of the game.

tsip
08-29-2005, 12:28 PM
They started in 1960, and gave their head coach a five year contract. But after losing their first 4 seasons, the cowgirls didn't fire their head coach, instead they gave him a 10 year contract. For their belief and patience in their head coach, they were rewarded with an NFL-record 20 consecutive winning seasons between 1966 and '85, 13 NFC East titles, 5 NFC titles, and 2 Superbowls. But that was the pre-Jerry Jones era.

We've got a class act in Houston, an organization to be proud of. Sure it isn't perfect, yes it has some weak points, yes there is room for improvement. But certainly no reason to give up hope and panic at this stage of the game.

Certainly, Landry was a great coach but his tenure at Dallas was the
exception and not the norm. In today's NFL, Head Coaches are on a quick
'hook' and this has been especially true with the 'new era' expansion teams-
Browns are on their 3rd Head Coach (made playoffs in 4th year), Ravens
are on their 2nd coach after 1st coach lasted 3 yrs (have made playoffs
and have won a SuperBowl), Jags are on their 2nd Head Coach (1st coach
did last 8 yrs but also made playoffs and left with a winning record), and we
all know about the Panthers.

The common thread here with these teams with respect to their Head
Coaches has been winning--those Coaches that won/win like Coughlin with
the Jags and Bilicek with the Ravens had/have longer tenures and only the
Browns are out of the playoff picture this yerar.

So, what does that mean for Capers? IMO, the team needs to show definite
signs that it is headed for the next step by being able to beat the 'winning/
playoff' teams--Jags were the only winning team we beat last year. Too,
it's time for something besides the 'same o/same o'-i.e. excessive
penalties, sacks on us, lack of sacks on them, lots of passing TDs against
us, few against them,etc.

And, lest we forget, the Jags-Panthers-Ravens and Browns all made the
playoffs within their 1st 4 years and 3 of those teams may be going back
this year...yes, we play the Browns this year! :texflag:

tsip
08-29-2005, 12:37 PM
The Ravens were not a expansion team they relocated from Cleveland as the Browns and changed their name to the Ravens.

...did they get any 'expansion' perks for this move? :confused:

TheOgre
08-29-2005, 01:24 PM
Justice overreacted.

I liked what I saw of the defense for the first quarter and a half. I also liked what I saw of our return game. Swinton and Mathis probably will both make the team. Bye, bye Kasper and Starling.

tsip
08-29-2005, 01:33 PM
The Ravens were not a expansion team they relocated from Cleveland as the Browns and changed their name to the Ravens.

"the NFL under Paul Tagliabue officially considers the Ravens as a 1996 expansion team. "

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baltimore_Ravens

tsip
08-29-2005, 01:38 PM
Because the history of the Browns was left in Cleveland, again they had an established roster and front office going to Baltimore.


Color/flavor it any way you want...still an expansion team

tsip
08-29-2005, 01:47 PM
No it's not....

A team that moves to another location and/or changes its name are generally not considered an expansion team.

They left behind their history and nickname to be used by an expansion team in 1999. This meant that the team playing in Baltimore would be an established roster with the clean history of expansion team complete with a new nickname.

I'll pass your thoughts onto the commissioner so he can correct himself!

infantrycak
08-29-2005, 02:41 PM
Color/flavor it any way you want...still an expansion team

You are being completely silly about this. Teams moving and/or changing names are not expansion teams. Expansion by definition makes the NFL bigger. The Ravens did not have an expansion draft, extra expansion draft picks etc. They are no more an expansion team than the Tennessee Titans--new name, new city, same roster.

tsip
08-29-2005, 02:55 PM
You are being completely silly about this. Teams moving and/or changing names are not expansion teams. Expansion by definition makes the NFL bigger. The Ravens did not have an expansion draft, extra expansion draft picks etc. They are no more an expansion team than the Tennessee Titans--new name, new city, same roster.

I'm not the one that gave them that title---commissioner did--my
previou post has a link to the source

Exascor
08-29-2005, 02:57 PM
Sounds like tsip knows he's wrong but doesn't want to admit it. Who cares what official label the Ravens had when they moved. They had a roster full of players, received no extra draft picks and had no expansion draft. But go ahead and lump them with Houston, Cleveland, Jacksonville and Carolina. Might as well as long as it proves his point right?

Jax and Carolina were given such good expansion deals that they backed off greatly when Cleveland (not the Ravens) got an expansion team. They compromised between those extremes for the Texans.

So the question is...would you trade a trip to the Conference Championship game and very limited success afterwards for the next 8+ years for our team that seems to be progressing each year? Oh...don't even try to argue that Clevelands formula is better. That would really ruin your credibility.

TheOgre
08-29-2005, 02:57 PM
The main difference between the Ravens and Titans (in terms of their respective move) is that the rights to the previous mascot and all of its stats stayed with its city in the first case and not in the second. They call the Ravens an "expansion team" merely because it was its first year of stats as that entity.

tsip
08-29-2005, 03:12 PM
Sounds like tsip knows he's wrong but doesn't want to admit it. Who cares what official label the Ravens had when they moved. They had a roster full of players, received no extra draft picks and had no expansion draft. But go ahead and lump them with Houston, Cleveland, Jacksonville and Carolina. Might as well as long as it proves his point right?

Jax and Carolina were given such good expansion deals that they backed off greatly when Cleveland (not the Ravens) got an expansion team. They compromised between those extremes for the Texans.

So the question is...would you trade a trip to the Conference Championship game and very limited success afterwards for the next 8+ years for our team that seems to be progressing each year? Oh...don't even try to argue that Clevelands formula is better. That would really ruin your credibility.

Since you know it all, please list any losing head coach (recently) that has
been around for 8 years?...thanks...almost forgot, taking the Ravens out of
my posts does not change the facts, so what is your point? you :homer: always
talk about facts but haven't seen many(if any) lately

ATX
08-29-2005, 03:20 PM
Since you know it all, please list any losing head coach (recently) that has
been around for 8 years?...thanks...almost forgot, taking the Ravens out of
my posts does not change the facts, so what is your point? you :homer: always
talk about facts but haven't seen many(if any) lately


Jeff Fisher 5-11 in 2004
Dick Vermeil 7-9 in 2004
Bill Parcells 6-10 in 2004
Joe Gibbs 6-10 in 2004
Bill Cowher 6-10 in 2003

jr0ck
08-29-2005, 04:38 PM
i know this is a page or so late but...

Here come the company lines and excuses.

Other than the Rockets, every organization (and its fans) in this town has accepted mediocrity.


i simply cannot get around this kind of thinking. does anyone on the MB actually think what they feel/say affects how our team is managed? you've got to be a little delusional, IMO, to think as a fan you actually have the position to "accept mediocrity" in the first place. i mean if i'm missing an opportunity to cast a vote or give a "yay or nay" then please tell me, because like all of you, i have my own idea of how things could be changed for the better. but since we, as fans, are only granted the position of observation then we have no choice but to accept observation as our role.

now don't twist my words, disagreeing with what your watching is perfectly fine, and something i feel is a healthy behavior. but since our "involvement" is only a one way street, the only choice we have in accepting the "mediocre" entertainment we have choosen to watch is turn it off/watch something else. rooting for the texans while disliking the coach's/GM/front office/player's is great, along with your voicing you opinoins on the board, but to infer you (and more importantly US) have a resposnibility in the mediocrity of the team's perfromance is so far off it's absurd. have a different idea about how things should be done, fine, but imposing the resposibility to fan's who feel differently (and coincedentaly, i might add, in many cases opposite) to change things is not fine. the buck doesn't stop or start here, we just get to watch it as it goes from A to B and say we would have followed the same route or not. nothing more, nothing less. /rant

tsip
08-29-2005, 05:13 PM
Jeff Fisher 5-11 in 2004
Dick Vermeil 7-9 in 2004
Bill Parcells 6-10 in 2004
Joe Gibbs 6-10 in 2004
Bill Cowher 6-10 in 2003

...not sure what your point is here but I was asking to name coaches
that were still employed by the same team after 8 straight losing seasons
in their careers...some posters have suggested that Capers should be
given more time to produce a winner on the field, like 8 yrs

Corrosion
08-29-2005, 05:22 PM
i know this is a page or so late but...



i simply cannot get around this kind of thinking. does anyone on the MB actually think what they feel/say affects how our team is managed? you've got to be a little delusional, IMO, to think as a fan you actually have the position to "accept mediocrity" in the first place. i mean if i'm missing an opportunity to cast a vote or give a "yay or nay" then please tell me, because like all of you, i have my own idea of how things could be changed for the better. but since we, as fans, are only granted the position of observation then we have no choice but to accept observation as our role.

now don't twist my words, disagreeing with what your watching is perfectly fine, and something i feel is a healthy behavior. but since our "involvement" is only a one way street, the only choice we have in accepting the "mediocre" entertainment we have choosen to watch is turn it off/watch something else. rooting for the texans while disliking the coach's/GM/front office/player's is great, along with your voicing you opinoins on the board, but to infer you (and more importantly US) have a resposnibility in the mediocrity of the team's perfromance is so far off it's absurd. have a different idea about how things should be done, fine, but imposing the resposibility to fan's who feel differently (and coincedentaly, i might add, in many cases opposite) to change things is not fine. the buck doesn't stop or start here, we just get to watch it as it goes from A to B and say we would have followed the same route or not. nothing more, nothing less. /rant


Nice post ..... ill agree with all but one point , the buck does Start with US the FANS ... If we stop attending the games and or stop watching them on TV the team loses Gate money and or TV dollars .... that happens ownership listens .... eventually :goodnight

Wolf
08-29-2005, 05:30 PM
"the NFL under Paul Tagliabue officially considers the Ravens as a 1996 expansion team. "

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baltimore_Ravens


Hmm if Tags said that ..what about the Titans???? expansion team? Oilers stuff was left in the HOF (or maybe it was just the name, I am not sure) .... Browns then shouldn't be considered being they took over the OLD browns history...

:confused:

tsip
08-29-2005, 05:53 PM
Hmm if Tags said that ..what about the Titans???? expansion team? Oilers stuff was left in the HOF (or maybe it was just the name, I am not sure) .... Browns then shouldn't be considered being they took over the OLD browns history...

:confused:

send Tags an e-mail and tell him you want an explanation....

Wolf
08-29-2005, 05:59 PM
I wasn't attacking you.. it is weird wording by the commish

Hervoyel
08-29-2005, 06:42 PM
Here come the company lines and excuses.

Other than the Rockets, every organization (and its fans) in this town has accepted mediocrity.

Yeah right wonger. The Rockets would never wallow in mediocrity for years while a couple of guys like Steve and Cuttino try to figure out how to win consistently. No way they'd give them like 5 years to suck things up and turn the team Hakeem made great into a monument to suck. That could never happen.

Hervoyel
08-29-2005, 06:52 PM
...not sure what your point is here but I was asking to name coaches
that were still employed by the same team after 8 straight losing seasons
in their careers...some posters have suggested that Capers should be
given more time to produce a winner on the field, like 8 yrs


I haven't seen anyone saying that (I'm not saying you're lying, just that I haven't seen it) but if that's the case then I think 8 years is pretty misguided. 5 seems reasonable and I'd give him a 6th if there was an obvious reason why the team didn't perform well in the 5th year. For example a massive run of injuries or some key player going Ricky Williams on us. (pictures of David Carr with dreadlocks come to mind).

Capers hasn't had 8 straight losing seasons here in Houston though has he? He's had three straight losing seasons. The first one (2002) was expected (anyone who argues that it wasn't is functionally insane in my opinion and not worth talking to). The second one (2003) coincided with a massive run of injuries to the defense. The strongest part of our team became a huge liability and they still improved by one win. The third one (2004) was a game shy of .500 and a two win improvement over the previous season.

I see no reason to talk further about Capers going out the door until I see the entire 2005 season.

pek281
08-29-2005, 07:29 PM
Sheez. Somebody PLEASE kill this post.

I come on to this site, probably daily. I like to catch the latest news that some of our FANS will post. I like to read some of the informative posts.

This one really irks me though. I can't just idly stand by. "Justice Calling for Scalps." You're serious too aren't you? Who is your team? The Texans? This has missed the whole entire point of the article.

Ya know, football players constantly complain about their lines being completely taken out of context. I've read a lot of sports football in my day, and this may just be a first for me where I see a WRITER'S line being completely taken out of context.

This thread? Please... a fellow Texan fan... somebody... delete this crap.

tsip
08-29-2005, 09:39 PM
Hmm. I guess if people post what you want to hear then it is a useful, considerate post and should remain on the board. Conversely, if someone says something you disagree with then that post is a useless piece of garbage and should be deleted immediately.

...good post, nobody makes anyone read this forum, which is--by design--
a place to express one's opinion-- :texflag:

Corrosion
08-29-2005, 10:03 PM
Hmm. I guess if people post what you want to hear then it is a useful, considerate post and should remain on the board. Conversely, if someone says something you disagree with then that post is a useless piece of garbage and should be deleted immediately.


Really? Wonder why they are still trying (in late August!!) to sell 8 game season tickets if they have a long line waiting to snap up available seats from any potential disgruntled fans?

Agree'd , Good post . Just because someone expresses an opinion that differs from yours doesnt mean their opinion is any less important .

Probably the two most intelligent reply's in this thread

dalemurphy
08-30-2005, 01:48 AM
Just what the hell do you expect from Richard Justice? He flops around more than a bull redfish on a Galveston fishing pier.

Look at how many times he has trashed, and then praised Drayton McLane this season.

Like most successful writers, Justice is tapping into a huge market...

the Chicken Little Texan fans. It's just good business by Justice, that's all.

dalemurphy
08-30-2005, 01:50 AM
Agree'd , Good post . Just because someone expresses an opinion that differs from yours doesnt mean their opinion is any less important .

Probably the two most intelligent reply's in this thread


True, but some opinions are inferior to others. For instance, my opinions are about the best around, IMO!

tsip
08-30-2005, 04:23 AM
True, but some opinions are inferior to others. For instance, my opinions are about the best around, IMO!

...better keep your day job :yahoo:

HJam72
08-30-2005, 04:30 AM
I'm afraid I might be a little mixed up chicken with rose colored glasses. :hmmm: