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GP
08-27-2005, 12:44 AM
If I'm way off...please don't post any replies to this thread. We can just let it die and be done with it.

But...I posted a reply to Babin's second cousin. And as I typed it, I think I might have stumbled or swerved into the truth on something.

Here we go....

We drafted (if I'm not mistaken) Babin because we needed an outside rusher to get to the QB, right?

Last year, Babin played hard but was generally tossed about on most plays.

So...we drafted Travis Johnson because (here's my theory) it became apparent to Texans player management that Babin was never going to be what they thought he would be unless we had a more aggressive interior lineman (TJ) who could put more inside pressure to draw off the opposing offensive linemen who are (at this point, as we saw in the Raiders game, as well as the last few seasons) handling the inside rush pretty well and thus do not have to abandon Babin to stop the interior rush. Hope that made sense.

In short, opposing teams can leave a lineman on Babin (full time) and just work him over all day long. Anybody is going to run out of gas if they're getting as much one-on-one attention as Babin has received, which explains why last season you could see Babin sometimes out of the play from the very beginning towards the end of each game. I'm not saying he was quitting on the play, but it just seemed like he was generally baffled and didn't know how else to get around or over or under the lineman in front of him.

Therefore, it's my theory that we "might" should have spent Babin's pick on a defensive lineman. But, I'm not sure one was available last year at Babin's draft position who would have been as much help. In other words, Texans draft personnel kinda' put the cart before the horse by drafting an outside speedster when they should have FIRST drafted an inside rusher...THEN, draft an outside speedster in this year's draft ( David Pollack, etc.). It kinda' makes you scratch your head and wonder about how one draft decision can create a dominoe effect.

I'm not buying into my own theory, but I just wanted to put it out there to see if I'm actually as crazy as I think I am.

(sigh)

Will someone PLEASE make the regular season get here faster!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

MYDAUGHTER'STEXANS
08-27-2005, 12:50 AM
I think you are correct on this one, I have watched the last two Texans games about six times and can not figure out why Babin is the last to the Football on every tackle or being tossed around throughout the game, he looked more aggressive last year, maybe he has more important issues at hand like hunting season at the Babin Ranch, I do not know, but as far as Travis Johnson the Texans needed someone like he last year instead of Babin, this guy is truely explosive off the ball every time.

Vinny
08-27-2005, 12:54 AM
Babin was one of the reasons we only gave up 4 rushing TD's last year. He was stout against the run especially around the goal line. He has tackle and sack stats comparable to the other strongside 3-4 linebackers in the nfl and have posted them about 6 times now....but you can look them up yourselves this time. He had a solid rookie season. We like to bash our young players for some reason though. Rock on!

MYDAUGHTER'STEXANS
08-27-2005, 12:58 AM
Not knocking Babin Vinny, last year great, this year ? if you have taped the last two games take another look, last one to the ball, or he is diving on a pile after the whistle is already blown. I hope you are right I would like to see him be productive. like last year, hopefully this is just pre-season woes.

Vinny
08-27-2005, 01:00 AM
This year hasn't started yet...and yes, I watch every game.

I bet you didn't know that Kevin Greene's first three years in the NFL he had a grand total of 13.5 sacks...TOTAL. In his FOURTH season he led his team in sacks (for the first time) with 16.5, I repeat, his 4th season.

Letís look at guys playing the strongside or LOLB in a few other 3-4 defenses (I've posted this several times). Earlier in the season last year I said his game looks like Vrabel's does. Statistically they ended up very close, and Babin was the only rookie in this group.

Steelers Clark Haggans had 37 tackles and 6 sacks
Patriots Mike Vrabel 71 tackles and 5.5 sacks
Chargers Ben Leber 60 total tackles and 2 sacks
Texans Jason Babin 63 total tackles and 4 sacks

SESupergenius
08-27-2005, 01:35 AM
I back Vinny up as well, Babin had a pretty solid year just as a ROLB in the 3-4 alone, not even taking into consideration he's a rookie. Keep this in mind too, Wong is calling the shots now so it make take a little bit to get some chemistry going. I don't fault our linebackers for anything going into this season, they are all new except ....you guessed it, Babin. He's the only one with a full years experience at his spot.

Vinny
08-27-2005, 01:38 AM
Honestly, the guy I'm most worried about in this season's group is Wong. I like natural linebackers inside in the 3-4 moreso than converted DE's. I don't see Wong as a natural linebacker with years of flowing to the ball under his belt as second nature. I thought he looked lost at times the first two weeks.

Crank_It_Up
08-27-2005, 02:04 AM
too soon for me to tell... don't know what his mindset is at this point. Could be

1 - can't react fast enough yet, still learning new position

2 - no confidence, depressed, unsure of himself

3 - it's preseason, I'm not goin full out till it counts

4 - I don't like this position and if I suck at it, they'll move me to outside

5 - not used to the view from new position, can't recognize what the offense is doing until it's too late

DFAN
08-27-2005, 02:27 AM
I think Babin will be fine. It takes a while to learn the 3-4. Especially if you were a DE in college and now learning OLB in the 3-4. It's a whole new ball game.

SESupergenius
08-27-2005, 02:48 AM
Honestly, the guy I'm most worried about in this season's group is Wong. I like natural linebackers inside in the 3-4 moreso than converted DE's. I don't see Wong as a natural linebacker with years of flowing to the ball under his belt as second nature. I thought he looked lost at times the first two weeks.
Wong is looking lost at this position, he looked lost last year when he lined up in ILB spot. He did have 2 really good pushes up the middle the last game for some added pressure, but coverage is he needs to work on. Like I said, it's going to be tough on this group of linebackers with all the changes.

texan279
08-27-2005, 06:10 AM
Wong should be fine at ILB. He played ILB when he was with Minnesota, just give him a little time to adjust. He went from being an ILB in a 4-3 to a OLB in a 3-4 and now a ILB in a 3-4. Personally I am excited about our group of LB's and can't wait for the season to get started already.

Diehardtexan
08-27-2005, 07:29 AM
Our linebackers are fine, not great but fine. we still need to draft one more in the mold of Ray Lewis, LT. Some one that makes other teams plan their schemes while worrying about him.

Exascor
08-27-2005, 07:32 AM
Personally I...can't wait for the season to get started already.OK OK. So I took the meat out of your statement. Still makes my point.

I was thrilled with Babin's production last season and really hope to see even more from him this year. I'm ignoring the past 2 games (and probably the next 2 as well) because it just didn't seem like we had anything close to our regular season packages installed.

GP
08-27-2005, 08:52 AM
Vinny:

I agree wth you on the issue of Babin being useful against the run. The reason he has been doing well against the run is because he ain't getting any farther than the line of scrimmage, and he's making the best of a bad situation by turning lemons into lemonade.

Tackling a RB is a lot different than tackling the QB. The RB by his nature flows to the defensive players whereas the QB is generally hiding safely behind a wall of defenders (offensive linemen). Therefore, when the bait comes to YOU...it's a lot easier to bite than if you gotta' claw your way through a wall of giants to get to the prize.

Babin has the talent. He's not a bust. But we're going to need a better interior pass rush for him to be successful. I would just hate to see him get the blame for something that (to me) appears to be a situation out of his control.

Hopefully Robaire, Seth, Gary (And TJ) will do better this year and help provide that inside rush that I think we all know is needed.

Wong will be fine, IMO. He's a Zach Thomas-type player. Always scraping and scrapping for everything he gets. Good leader.

jr0ck
08-27-2005, 11:29 AM
The reason he has been doing well against the run is because he ain't getting any farther than the line of scrimmage, and he's making the best of a bad situation by turning lemons into lemonade.

whoa, whoa...there are hundred's of NFL player's who would love to be magically bestowed, with what seem's to be one of babin's natural abilities, in defending the run/ball hawking. being above average at anything in the NFL shouldn't usually be included in the same line of sentence as turning "lemons into lemonade", much less be looked at as a lesser of two evils. as it's been pointed out numerous times before, sacks ARE NOT the end all stat. yes they have a more weighted value in the 3-4 defense philosophy, but you can't sack a running back 3+ yds up the field.

my personal take on 'ol babin is that he is deceptively fast. i think once he incorporates more swin/rip moves into his arsenal we will start seeing peyton chunks all over the field. his natual inclination, has seemed to me, is to spin around a defender (which hasn't been as succesful as he and us both would like, i'm sure). i think he must have developed this while being a superior talent at a small school (western michigan?? i'm pretty sure :texflag: ) in college. while it lead him to sack record's while there, i think he may need to "diversify his portfolio" if you will, to become the same threat at the professional level. even if he doesn't become "sackzilla", he has made one of the smoothest transitions, not only to a new position but, to the the NFL i've ever seen. remember people, we're talking about a SECOND year player here :ok:

Dime
08-27-2005, 11:51 AM
Personally, I think Babin FOR HIS ROOK YEAR was one of the productive players on the defense. Quit looking at Pre-season. People are not going '100%' speed there because the injuries in a perseason game would be horrible. Yes, I know.. they are playing 90-95% speed unless they are trying to make the roster, but still it is preseason. Last year, Babin showed he was a good run stopper and decent pass protection. He still only had 4 sacks, but you show me very many last year rookies who had more at that position. Quit banging Babin. If his game dont show up by the start of the season, I will help you.. till then, these posts are useless. Next we will be banging AJ for his play.

Fiddy
08-27-2005, 12:27 PM
Dont forget that Fangio and Capers werent as aggressive with the defense last year becasue we had a rookie at CB, an aging CB, and a FS that just moved to that position and a rookie SS in the secondary. If they were more aggresive, Babin probably would have had more sacks.

jr0ck
08-27-2005, 01:44 PM
If his game dont show up by the start of the season, I will help you..

a little preemptive don't you think?

remember...

I bet you didn't know that Kevin Greene's first three years in the NFL he had a grand total of 13.5 sacks...TOTAL. In his FOURTH season he led his team in sacks (for the first time) with 16.5, I repeat, his 4th season.

Dime
08-28-2005, 01:37 AM
a little preemptive don't you think?

remember...

Dude.. I have seen Babin play... I am not worried.

ROYDESTROY
08-28-2005, 01:54 AM
If I'm way off...please don't post any replies to this thread. We can just let it die and be done with it.

But...I posted a reply to Babin's second cousin. And as I typed it, I think I might have stumbled or swerved into the truth on something.

Here we go....

We drafted (if I'm not mistaken) Babin because we needed an outside rusher to get to the QB, right?

Last year, Babin played hard but was generally tossed about on most plays.

So...we drafted Travis Johnson because (here's my theory) it became apparent to Texans player management that Babin was never going to be what they thought he would be unless we had a more aggressive interior lineman (TJ) who could put more inside pressure to draw off the opposing offensive linemen who are (at this point, as we saw in the Raiders game, as well as the last few seasons) handling the inside rush pretty well and thus do not have to abandon Babin to stop the interior rush. Hope that made sense.

In short, opposing teams can leave a lineman on Babin (full time) and just work him over all day long. Anybody is going to run out of gas if they're getting as much one-on-one attention as Babin has received, which explains why last season you could see Babin sometimes out of the play from the very beginning towards the end of each game. I'm not saying he was quitting on the play, but it just seemed like he was generally baffled and didn't know how else to get around or over or under the lineman in front of him.

Therefore, it's my theory that we "might" should have spent Babin's pick on a defensive lineman. But, I'm not sure one was available last year at Babin's draft position who would have been as much help. In other words, Texans draft personnel kinda' put the cart before the horse by drafting an outside speedster when they should have FIRST drafted an inside rusher...THEN, draft an outside speedster in this year's draft ( David Pollack, etc.). It kinda' makes you scratch your head and wonder about how one draft decision can create a dominoe effect.

I'm not buying into my own theory, but I just wanted to put it out there to see if I'm actually as crazy as I think I am.

(sigh)

Will someone PLEASE make the regular season get here faster!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Wow ..good theory bro