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z0rpAn
08-22-2005, 12:30 PM
Anybody notice how much better the defense does using the man on man scheme instead of the zone D? or was it just me...

MossSupaFreak
08-22-2005, 12:38 PM
had trouble stopping the run..

keyfro
08-22-2005, 01:51 PM
you know it's just something that a lot of people will argue...you have people like me who believe that the zone defense is the way to go...it gives you a lot more options with a lot more personal while making everything a lot easier to understand...of course it does have it's downsides...with an accurate QB like manning it can be destroyed...there is always holes in the zone defense coverage wise...i believe when you are in short yardage situations the zone defense is the way to go...less chance of screwing stuff up...now in long yardage situations man coverage is definetly the way to go if you have the personal for it...robinson is man coverage guy...pb can be as long as he control his reciever...granted there isn't a corner in the league that can control randy moss so as of now i believe we have the corners for the job

faggins showed that he's not quite there yet to be one of the top two guys...but i believe throughout the season he will continue to improve and be that strong 3rd corner for us...and as far as our safties are concerned i believe we are set for now...i do see CC Brown taking over for coleman when he retires or is released

now if only our linebackers could mature we would be set defensively

infantrycak
08-22-2005, 02:08 PM
faggins showed that he's not quite there yet to be one of the top two guys...but i believe throughout the season he will continue to improve and be that strong 3rd corner for us...and as far as our safties are concerned i believe we are set for now...i do see CC Brown taking over for coleman when he retires or is released

Folks are coming down a little hard on Faggins on the long play. He was supposed to have safety help over the top from Brown. Brown was out of position and was as much or more responsible for the play than Faggins. As for Brown taking over for Coleman, Brown is a SS while Coleman plays FS. Some players can swap, but it isn't the same position--see Roy Williams.

ojthecat
08-22-2005, 02:14 PM
now in long yardage situations man coverage is definetly the way to go if you have the personal for it...

What the heck are you saying????

keyfro
08-22-2005, 02:19 PM
i'm saying in situations where it's 6+ yds to the first down or more you want to be in man coverage...it gives you some more blitz options...but only if you can trust those corners to do their jobs

Str8tupg42k1
08-22-2005, 03:17 PM
Folks are coming down a little hard on Faggins on the long play. He was supposed to have safety help over the top from Brown. Brown was out of position and was as much or more responsible for the play than Faggins. .


Yeah i saw that brown was supposed to help faggins on top but people are ripping faggins when they should rip brown prolly people are in a love stage with him right now. i'm not saying he isn't good or stuff like that he should be a good player for us he just needs to learn more and keep mistakes to a minimun.

texasguy346
08-22-2005, 04:13 PM
Folks are coming down a little hard on Faggins on the long play. He was supposed to have safety help over the top from Brown. Brown was out of position and was as much or more responsible for the play than Faggins.

Brown seemed to concerned with Moss' route underneath with DRob covering him, and didn't get deep enough to help out Faggins who was counting on safety help over the top. DRob was blanketing Moss and it didn't look as though he needed much help. Just a rookie mistake that Brown will grow out of as he gets more PT. Faggins goofed up when he went to look for the ball and Gabriel flew past him. Brown definately has very good speed, and should be able to make up for minor mistakes but not a big one like he made on that play. Petey played pretty solid overall.

Corrosion
08-22-2005, 05:30 PM
faggins showed that he's not quite there yet to be one of the top two guys...but i believe throughout the season he will continue to improve and be that strong 3rd corner for us...and as far as our safties are concerned i believe we are set for now...i do see CC Brown taking over for coleman when he retires or is released




The two plays where Faggins got beat for TD's .... the first Doug Gabriel just made a hell of a play to take away an INT , he had two hands on the ball thats pretty good coverage if you ask me .
On the 70 yard play CC Brown was the safety who should have been over the top ..... He was out of position , Faggins played the short route and got beat and with Brown out of position the play goes for 70 yards and a TD instead of 18 and a first down .
Faggins would be the second corner on many teams .... CC Brown has shown potential in the first two pre-season games but he is only starting because Earl is injuried .

powda
08-22-2005, 06:28 PM
perhaps you guys should check the tape again.

while cc may not have been exactly where he was supposed to be (disputable but likey), i saw faggins make a bonehead mistake on the deep td. as gabriel broke into his long strides downfield faggins not only looked back to check the play (run-pass-read the qb drop)...he turned his back entirely to the wr and slowed to a jog while he located the qb. keep in mind he did this without a hand or shoulder on gabriel to gauge his location or speed.

gabriel was past the stage in his route where he might have fainted this route or that route....all he ever did was change his speed...and he did it before faggins started to look back. faggins hesitated and got beat.....BY A MILE. i thought faggins played like the rookie on that play. if your gonna get beat....at least keep the play in front of you.

i also have issue with faggins telling the media he was supposed to get safety help on that play. even if its true you dont pass the buck. you take accountability. if its gonna get said in the aftermath of the game...let someone else say it.

i have not been a fan of faggins playing a signifigant role in our defense for quite sometime...(previous to the midpoint of last season) i think he'd be a great dimeback...and thats just where i want to see him. he plays with heart...and i credit him for that...but as evidenced by the other touchdown he gave up...he was outplayed by a subpar talent despite having good postion.

faggins will be that mismatch other teams look for all season long. count on it. when its crunch time in the redzone and the game is on the line offensive coordinators are going to target him.

(ps...no, im not another "sky is falling cult poster". but i do reserve the right to express a negative opinion about a player ive long been unimpressed with...especially when its timely.)

Corrosion
08-22-2005, 06:40 PM
faggins will be that mismatch other teams look for all season long. count on it. when its crunch time in the redzone and the game is on the line offensive coordinators are going to target him.




Ill agree with this portion of your post .... But only because of the quality of the other two CB's ....Its obvious to anyone that you wouuld want to target Faggins over Dunta Robinson or Phillip Buchanon . You'd more than likely be a fool otherwise.

Double Barrel
08-22-2005, 06:41 PM
i also have issue with faggins telling the media he was supposed to get safety help on that play. even if its true you dont pass the buck. you take accountability. if its gonna get said in the aftermath of the game...let someone else say it.

yeah, that's what talk radio is for. :heh:

Good post, though.

powda
08-22-2005, 06:51 PM
Ill agree with this portion of your post .... But only because of the quality of the other two CB's ....Its obvious to anyone that you wouuld want to target Faggins over Dunta Robinson or Phillip Buchanon . You'd more than likely be a fool otherwise.

regardless of the depth chart....cb1 ,cb2 ,nickelback ,dimeback...you go after the mismatch. if moss is on the field do you refuse to throw him the ball because the other teams nickleback is covering your 3rd reciever? your thinking is flawed. if the talent level in a matchup is comprable you look to the next matchup to find an advantage...

i dont think faggins will be victimized this year because he happens to be our nickleback...i think he'll be victimized because the other teams top 3 recievers will all be superior to his talent level.

texasguy346
08-22-2005, 09:41 PM
As I mentioned Faggins definately made a mistake. Other than that big mistake he played pretty good the rest of the game, and he remained confident it seemed (very important for a CB to keep that confidence). IMO Sanders had a worse game than Faggins did for the secondary. On the Simmons INT Sanders is at least 2 or 3 steps behind his man, and a bad throw from the QB is all that keeps it from going for a TD. In another play the Texans were in zone coverage, and it seemed as if Sanders wasn't sure of his assignment on the play. He wasn't deep enough, and shaded to the inside too much leaving a wide open pass to the receiver. He realized his mistake too late, and the QB tossed it over his reach for a big gain. I respect your opinion on Faggins, but I'm going to trust that this was a mental lapse on Faggins part. He got lazy, and didn't observe proper technique...that gets you beat. I hope this serves as a lesson for him.

Davis37
08-23-2005, 02:20 AM
Im dissapointed in Faggins after the Raider game, but im not going to bash him as some people have. The 1st TD he gave up, he was in good position and got his hands on the ball but just did not make the play. He has to make those plays! The second TD Faggins gave up was just poorly played. Yes, he was supposed to have safety help over the top, but he just played poorly there. He totally turned his back to the reciever w/o even a hand on him. I still think Faggins can be the solid nickelback that we need, he just has to limit his mistakes, and when he does make one, keep the play in front of him.

:offtopic
I prefer to play bump and run and send the house!

TexanExile
08-23-2005, 10:52 AM
[QUOTE=Double Barrel]yeah, that's what talk radio is for. :heh:
QUOTE]

Ah yes, one of the things I miss most about living back home--the infamous call-in postgame radio shows. Beered-up bitter people with cell phones take charge of coaching, player personnel, hirin', and firin'. Hilarious stuff.

Buddy D.'s show in New Orleans is FAR funnier after Saints games. You think WE got chicken littles? Heh. At least ours can blow below a .2 on the breathalyzer.

Faggins made some good strides last season and burned some people who tried to exploit him as a weakness. I hope this Raiders game will serve as a motivator. If we would've set our expectations for Dunta on the Chargers season opener last year, uh....you get the idea.

rashid242
08-23-2005, 05:56 PM
Brown seemed to concerned with Moss' route underneath with DRob covering him, and didn't get deep enough to help out Faggins who was counting on safety help over the top. DRob was blanketing Moss and it didn't look as though he needed much help. Just a rookie mistake that Brown will grow out of as he gets more PT. Faggins goofed up when he went to look for the ball and Gabriel flew past him. Brown definately has very good speed, and should be able to make up for minor mistakes but not a big one like he made on that play. Petey played pretty solid overall.

Either Grabriel scores or Moss does. Moss got on top of Robinson in the slot & Collins pump faked to him. I'd rather take my chances with Gabriel then Moss. So really it doesn't even matter. Moss would have scored if he didn't go his way.