PDA

View Full Version : The 1st team defense sucked!


Marcus
08-21-2005, 12:29 AM
I don't care if we ever win any preseason game. It's worth nothing.

But what I do care about is how the 1st team goes up against their 1st team, and against the Raiders tonight, our 1st team defense got chewed up. Now, I know it's preseason, and I realize that the staff is not going use any blitz packages. But if the Raiders could get pressure without blitzing, why couldn't we?

The main weakness of this team that past three years has been not getting to the opposing QB, and not protecting our QB. In this game, the announcers were saying those dreaded words that I heard way to often in previous seasons. Those words were "Too much time!" or "Look at the time!" And they never say that when the offense is on the field, only when the defense is.

I came away more disappointed from tonight's win, than last week's loss.

ccdude730
08-21-2005, 12:53 AM
well i will say that the raiders did pick apart our defense. but that IS going to happen when there is no pass rush.

add a consistent pass rush and those passing yards will get cut down tremendously. collins did have too much time though. i saw babin going up against gallery and he was getting extremely frustrated, even on the run play babin couldnt get away to make the tackle.

it all starts up front

JDizzle
08-21-2005, 02:08 AM
Why give our regular season opponents the film to study?

Marcus
08-21-2005, 02:19 AM
Oh, is that why we gave Collins all night to throw the ball and carve up the secondary, because we don't want give the regular season opponents film to study? :ok: :goodnight

wrestler4life
08-21-2005, 02:39 AM
I agree. We were terrible. We looked extremely undersized and overmatched. Peek looked like he had no idea how to read pass versus run, and was totally unable to get away from the blocker on him. The secondary were left to fend for themselves as Collins looked like he never had to get out of his armchair to throw the ball. Very disappointed indeed.

Blake
08-21-2005, 02:50 AM
I liked the overall look of the D. Faggins gave up 2 big big plays that reslulted in Oaks 14/17 points.

Faggins has the right positioning, and angle on the ball in the endzone, catches it, and gets it ripped away from a WR. That is weak. The other he just got burrned.

I think you guys are going a litle overboard here. They held Moss to 2 catches for 23 yards. They picked off Collins in the endzone.

Faggins just needs to correct his mistakes. No need to sacrifice the whole Defense for it.

wrestler4life
08-21-2005, 02:54 AM
OK, but why were we so succeptable to the run? We looked horrible. I could not believe how many times the cutback lane was open because the linebackers could not get off of their blocks.

Blake
08-21-2005, 03:29 AM
OK, but why were we so succeptable to the run? We looked horrible. I could not believe how many times the cutback lane was open because the linebackers could not get off of their blocks.

The raiders are going to get yards. You cant stuff an offense, with those weapons, and that big line every play. They are going to get their yards.

You just have to limit them, and try to make the big plays.

I saw the same thing. I saw the cutback lanes open. But I also saw his first holes close up, forcing him to cutback.

texan_fan
08-21-2005, 09:18 AM
I came away more disappointed from tonight's win, than last week's loss.

It's nice to know I wasn't the only one. I don't consider myself a *fair weather fan*. I understand the game. There were too many mistakes, even for a pre-season game.

I firmly believe we didn't *win* the game...we just, by the grace of Brown's leg, didn't *lose* it.

I'm so TIRED of getting inside the 5 and settling for a fieldgoal. We should be a LOT farther than that by now... :brickwall

Cindy
08-21-2005, 09:32 AM
I couldn't believe how much time Collins had. It seemed like he was taking a coffee break back there before passing to one of about 17 all-pro receivers. :shocked

Marcus
08-21-2005, 09:53 AM
I liked the overall look of the D. Faggins gave up 2 big big plays that reslulted in Oaks 14/17 points.

Faggins has the right positioning, and angle on the ball in the endzone, catches it, and gets it ripped away from a WR. That is weak. The other he just got burrned.

I think you guys are going a litle overboard here. They held Moss to 2 catches for 23 yards. They picked off Collins in the endzone.

Faggins just needs to correct his mistakes. No need to sacrifice the whole Defense for it.

DC_ROCK, I didn't say anything about Faggins. Faggins getting burned twice didn't concern me.

What did concern me was that Collins had all the time in the world to throw the ball. You don't get pressure on the QB, then the end result will be the secondary getting hung out to dry. No amount of second half 'heroics' by the reserves, after Collins and the 1st team offense is is not playing anymore is going to diminish that. If they had remained in the game, it would have been a blowout. :embarrass

Marcus
08-21-2005, 10:15 AM
People need to give credit to the Raiders O-Line they are a big bunch of dudes and played very well together.

Wow! That's comforting. Do you mean to tell me that everytime we play against a team that has a decent O-line this season, we can look forward to seeing our D getting their heads handed to them???.

Swell! I can hardly wait. :yahoo: :rolleyes:

swisher
08-21-2005, 10:19 AM
Ok, here's why I don't understand why everyone freaks out by a series or two in preseason...


Look at any regular season game...do you judge the performance of the team that day based on the first quarter? There have been games that we looked like crap in the first quarter and came back, made adjustments, and won the game (Titans game from last year for example, or even the Vikings and Colts @ home even though we eventually lost those.) And there are games where we looked great at the beginning but then lost the game in the second half......

nunusguy
08-21-2005, 10:34 AM
I came away more disappointed from tonight's win, than last week's loss.
If we're talking about the defensive starters, and you are, that's a comment
that's hard to disagree with. Hopefully its just the inconsistency of preseason
and a LB corp getting use to new positions and working with each other. But
no doubt, these backers are the fastest crew Capers has put on the field
together so far and I know they are saving the real show for 9/11 and the Bills rookie. But I gotta admit, Collings seemed to stand back there for an eternity on some of the passing plays.

Marcus
08-21-2005, 10:46 AM
And to think that people accuse me of being a :homer: lol:

I know enough about this team to know that we are not going to win games this season by winning offensive shootouts. I want to see evidence that we are getting pressure on the QB. And I would like to see that without having to "manufacture" a pass rush by using some exotic blitz package.

Wong, Greenwood, Walker, Payne at least got their names called. Babin and Peek, as far as I'm concerned, never made it out of the locker room. In a 3-4 defense, where the OLBs are supposed to be the ones who apply the pressure . . . . . ??

I have good reason to be concerned.

Doom Capers
08-21-2005, 10:57 AM
They looked a lot better than our defense did week 2 of last years pre season against the Steelers.......

jmantexfan
08-21-2005, 11:30 AM
two drives, our d looked really bad. i will agree that it was bad. But once again, our starting offense played 1 series and the raiders 1st team was in all of first half. Good thing is after 2 drives they couldnt score anymore(besides 1 FG). Collins still had too much time but after 1st quarter we looked better in the fact that we prevented the scoring to continue. we did seem easy to run against and WRs were constantly open. If our 1st team offense was in the whole half we would have went into the half tied or with the lead. our first team D looked bad, but the offense looked good and i must say that the raiders offense really is good and definately looked it last night. The thing that scares me more than our starting D is our back up offense. thay couldnt do ack. I ould have loved to see our first stringers out there as long as the raiders played theres. I would have also likes to see more blitzing from the texans, and im sure they are capable of putting pressure on QBs and stuffing runs, hopefully they get it together.

im not sure how good the raiders D is supposed to be but the starting O-line of the Texans looked pretty good against them. back ups looked crappy.

wags
08-21-2005, 12:10 PM
They looked a lot better than our defense did week 2 of last years pre season against the Steelers.......

I'll be interested to see if we can stop their rushing attack in game 2. Greenwood and Wong seemed to get lost in the shuffle at times last night.

One thing I did like about last night is CC Brown. He's always around the ball.

texansfan1974
08-21-2005, 12:12 PM
thanks for the 2nd and 3rd team defences or we would have lost this one. (does it matter. i think so.)

TexanExile
08-21-2005, 12:16 PM
They looked a lot better than our defense did week 2 of last years pre season against the Steelers.......

Now THERE's an interesting comparison....especially considering how badly the Texans got thumped back then and what we came to see from Pittsburgh after that. But in reality it's apples and oranges, considering all the new faces and lineup changes in the first-team D.

Just for grins, I searched the game day thread from that Steelers preseason game and found the first-half stats: Here (http://www.houstontexans.com/fan_zone/messageboards/showpost.php?p=22732&postcount=88)


I can't comment either way yet on the Raiders game because the game won't be broadcast until Monday over here (NFL Network), but I'll keep that in mind. So far I've only seen the few snippets of the game shown on "No Huddle" last night.

I just think it's a little early to expect the defense, with so many position changes and new personnel, to be firing on all cylinders. They'll keep improving.

LBC_Justin
08-21-2005, 01:28 PM
It's nice to know I wasn't the only one. I don't consider myself a *fair weather fan*. I understand the game. There were too many mistakes, even for a pre-season game.

I firmly believe we didn't *win* the game...we just, by the grace of Brown's leg, didn't *lose* it.

I'm so TIRED of getting inside the 5 and settling for a fieldgoal.We should be a LOT farther than that by now... :brickwall
The Texans are great in the red zone. I think your expectations are a little too high.
Last season, the Texans ranked sixth in the NFL in touchdown efficiency. They scored touchdowns on 59.1 percent of their trips inside the opponent's 20-yard line.

Their problem was getting to the red zone. They got that far 44 times, which ranked 20th in the league.

DoCt3rJ
08-21-2005, 02:49 PM
Our defense aint the Baltimore Ravens .....were young, we played prolly one of the best Offenses in the league next to Chiefs and Colts. We held their first offense to what... 14, 17 points? That's pretty good expecting that they will prolly avg close to 30 this year. I do agree Collins had too much time to throw, but maybe Capers ain't showin his blitz yet.

ATX
08-21-2005, 02:54 PM
I guess we could say our 2nd and 3rd team Defense looked better than the Raider's 2nd and 3rd team Defense. That's a plus.

swisher
08-21-2005, 03:03 PM
thanks for the 2nd and 3rd team defences or we would have lost this one. (does it matter. i think so.)

or you could say we would have made adjustments, and with our first team offense the entire game used up more clock (they had an 8 minute drive).

Preseasons are good for evaluating individual talent, and I think to some degree you can evaluate the team as a whole, but you have to give them four full quarters to be fair.

Marcus
08-21-2005, 03:04 PM
Hey caddy.

If you'll check my posts from the previous week, I didn't make one negative comment about the offense. Not one!

Not getting pressure on the opposing QB was a big problem last year. After watching our 1st team not getting anywhere near Collins last night, I don't think I'm going off the deep end commenting about it. And I don't give 2 ****s if it is preseason. :challenge

And once again, if this defense can't put pressure on the QB without having to "manufacture" one with a blitz, then you can expect the secondary to get lit up.

MIGHTYTEX
08-21-2005, 05:22 PM
I'm sure that scrimmaging against them for a couple of days before the game allowed them to get use to our D. Wait and see how the 1st team D looks against Dallas and Tampa. As far as I'm concerned its only the pre-season I'll start to worry if they don't show up in Buffalo.

TexansFanatic
08-21-2005, 05:55 PM
I have to say, I do find it puzzling why someone like Dom Capers is unable to figure out a way, after three years, even with limited talent, to get to the opposing quarterback. Hell, Jerry Glanville is like the worst coach of all time, and even he knew how to wreak havoc with opposing passing games with limited talent.....Let's start sending more guys!!!

TexansTrueFan
08-21-2005, 06:14 PM
or 1st team D is not doing any special coverages, our blitz packages. HAHA some of you people like to jump to conclusions way to fast. This years D will be even better than the D we had in 02 !!!!!!!!

Blake
08-21-2005, 06:21 PM
No amount of second half 'heroics' by the reserves, after Collins and the 1st team offense is is not playing anymore is going to diminish that. If they had remained in the game, it would have been a blowout. :embarrass


Collins and Moss played well into the 3rd quarter. But I guess you didnt notice that.

Marcus
08-21-2005, 06:32 PM
Collins and Moss played well into the 3rd quarter. But I guess you didnt notice that.

You know as well as I do that the reserves on both teams, particularly on the lines, played the 2nd half. If you don't want to get the point, you don't have to. :ok:

TexansTrueFan
08-21-2005, 06:56 PM
You know as well as I do that the reserves on both teams, particularly on the lines, played the 2nd half. If you don't want to get the point, you don't have to. :ok:


collins and 1st team played 4 series while carr and 1st played one.

MossSupaFreak
08-21-2005, 07:04 PM
chill out marcus its only preseason the texans are getting better very fast i think they can win their division too i think your team is fine, its just preseason its alot different in regular season, in the regular season you are actually playing for something,alot of teams defenses are going to struggle against our offense, we didnt have porter or curry in the game but in the regular season you'll see our REAL offense and the texans REAL defense :)

MossSupaFreak
08-21-2005, 07:07 PM
collins and 1st team played 4 series while carr and 1st played one.
yea we had injuries on offense......lechler...treu...andrew walter..jerry porter..ronald curry....ect ect

TexansTrueFan
08-21-2005, 07:15 PM
yea we had injuries on offense......lechler...treu...andrew walter..jerry porter..ronald curry....ect ect


so whats that gotta do with ur first team O playing 4 Qtrs, while ours played 1 Qtr ????

MossSupaFreak
08-21-2005, 07:17 PM
so whats that gotta do with ur first team O playing 4 Qtrs, while ours played 1 Qtr ????
4 quarters???? we didnt play the whole game we played the 1st and 2nd quarter what game were you watching?

TexansTrueFan
08-21-2005, 07:25 PM
4 quarters???? we didnt play the whole game we played the 1st and 2nd quarter what game were you watching?


"series means 3 and outs or tds", yall played 4, we played one !!!!

MossSupaFreak
08-21-2005, 07:27 PM
"series means 3 and outs or tds", yall played 4, we played one !!!!
you didnt say series, you said quarters, big difference

TexansTrueFan
08-21-2005, 07:28 PM
collins and 1st team played 4 series while carr and 1st played one.


no see i said series

MossSupaFreak
08-21-2005, 07:29 PM
no see i said series
no look you said quarters

so whats that gotta do with ur first team O playing 4 Qtrs, while ours played 1 Qtr ????

TexansTrueFan
08-21-2005, 07:32 PM
haha yeah on one post i said series and on the other i said quarters, my bad. But why do you think your starters were kept in there so much longer than ours ? i wouldnt tkae the risk if i was Norv !

MossSupaFreak
08-21-2005, 07:34 PM
haha yeah on one post i said series and on the other i said quarters, my bad. But why do you think your starters were kept in there so much longer than ours ? i wouldnt tkae the risk if i was Norv !
yea it surprised me too, i didnt like the idea at all but we had some guys missing this preseason game so we didnt really have much to replace

texasguy346
08-21-2005, 07:35 PM
I really don't see what the big deal is. Capers was being cautious with Carr and there was a question as to if he'd play at all in this game. He was in for one series. The Raiders let Collins play a little longer because the way we were rushing him there wasn't much of a chance of him getting touched. Add to that the fact that they had Walter sitting out, and I don't blame them for letting him play for awhile longer. Keep in mind that we had much of our first team defense in for the better part of the first half. The Raiders 1st team offense just pounded our 1st team defense simple as that.

MossSupaFreak
08-21-2005, 07:36 PM
I really don't see what the big deal is. Capers was being cautious with Carr and there was a question as to if he'd play at all in this game. He was in for one series. The Raiders let Collins play a little longer because the way we were rushing him there wasn't much of a chance of him getting touched. Add to that the fact that they had Walter sitting out, and I don't blame them for letting him play for awhile longer. Keep in mind that we had much of our first team defense in for the better part of the first half. The Raiders 1st team offense just pounded our 1st team defense simple as that.
good points :)

TexansTrueFan
08-21-2005, 07:41 PM
I really don't see what the big deal is. Capers was being cautious with Carr and there was a question as to if he'd play at all in this game. He was in for one series. The Raiders let Collins play a little longer because the way we were rushing him there wasn't much of a chance of him getting touched. Add to that the fact that they had Walter sitting out, and I don't blame them for letting him play for awhile longer. Keep in mind that we had much of our first team defense in for the better part of the first half. The Raiders 1st team offense just pounded our 1st team defense simple as that.


it dont matter to me, i just dont think its smart of norv to risk his players health over a pre-season game.

texasguy346
08-21-2005, 07:52 PM
Different coaches have different philosophies. Haslett and the Saints left his starters in for a good portion of the game well into the second half against the Patriots almost as if the game counted. Edwards left Pennington and Martin in for a couple of series against the Vikings.

There are alot of factors that come into play such as getting a new player used to your system, or getting the whole team used to a new scheme on offense or defense, and on and on. The coaches have to accept that there is some risk when you play your starters too long, but there's also a risk if you play your starters too little.

In Turner's case he didn't have as many options since he had some players out. He decided to get a good look at most of his starters over the first two quarters. Its not unusual for a team to play their starters for the first half in the 2nd preseason game. Again the way our D was playing there wasn't much of a risk to Collins, and Moss & Jordan saw limited action anyway. Their #2 WR Porter was out, and Curry was out too. Not risking much by playing Gabriel when you've got good depth at the position. Don't see what the fuss is about.

Marcus
08-21-2005, 07:53 PM
The Raiders let Collins play a little longer because the way we were rushing him there wasn't much of a chance of him getting touched.
Even though I don't believe that's why they played him that long . . it's funny anyways! . . :read:lol:

TexansTrueFan
08-21-2005, 08:05 PM
It didn't take long... just 2 days back... and we can tell that
preseason isn't for the team to see what needs work... It's life of death for you.... Sorry... but that's too funny.


haha pre season is for starters to get un rusty and for unproven players to prove themselves as team worthy !!!! :ok:

TexHorns
08-22-2005, 12:31 AM
No, I well just expect 8 sacks a game like some people do. It shouldnt mater if the other teams O Line is good or not right?


That is the difference between a legitamate playoff team and the inconsistancy of a possible wildcard team. I have to say the first team D did not look great against the Raider oline. Also our starting oline didnt give Carr enough time as usual. We will find out which one our young team is by the end of the season. With that said, I don't see preseason dictating our play or chances at a good record this year. We have play makers on this team who will get things done. We will get our W's this year.


Good pass protection and Houston will rule the world ah ah ah!!!! :evilb:

LBC_Justin
08-22-2005, 01:43 AM
Guys something to keep in mind.....

In preseason you can't tell what is really going on unless you have a Texans polo shirt on and your pay check comes from Bob McNair. Only the coaches know what they are trying to do. In every preseason game there are hundreds of little "experiments" going on. Many of those experiments give the coachs really good feedback but often make the overall results look poorly. Plus they mess up the overall gel of anything team related.
Add that to the fact that during preseason the coaches are playing mind games and don't want any of their strategies revealed on film. Add that to the fact that most of the real starters never give it 100% during preseason.

The result of this is a game in which means nothing even to even to a very well informed fan. (Especially in the first few preseason games)

What can you get out of preseason?
You can tell if your new draft picks and free agents look good in their new uniforms.

HJam72
08-22-2005, 01:48 AM
What can you get out of preseason?
You can tell if your new draft picks and free agents look good in their new uniforms.

That's entertainment!!! :tv:

Twin84AirRaid
08-22-2005, 02:56 AM
I understand your concern Texans fans, but let me tell you this. You guys have an excellent offense featuring an All-Pro WR and one of the most underrated QBs that had a calf sprain on Saturday and still made the most of his one series. Our offense is going to score a lot of points this year, no matter what...and we were still without our number two and three receivers. Our offensive line is going to manhandle teams this year. That guy that frustrated Babin...his name is Robert Gallery. The guy is going to be a pro bowler for a while. Another thing I have to add is that it is preseason. You guys are the most improved team overall for the last three years. You guys are going to be a mainstay in the playoffs for a while, so don't fret. We are going to do this to a lot of teams this year, it is just a matter if we are going to stop them. Belive me, all the Raider faithful(myself included) were angry when Carr came out because we wanted to see our defense play against the best. I am not just saying that, check out raiderfans.net. I hope to talk some football with you guys this year, so don't get rid of me.

TiltRaider
08-22-2005, 06:53 AM
Raider fan checking in here, just want to say hey to everyone!

first of all the reason why i think you guys only played one series is because they scored on the first series, it couldnt have gotten much better then that right? didnt look like to me that they needed to be out there much longer, they called some nice plays, got some nice 3rd down conversions, marched up the field pretty niceley and scored. once they got in the end zone, we had two nice stops, one i thought our FS stuart schweigert could have picked that off if he was a tad closer, and two, gibson was pretty close to picking it off, nice break up though! but on 3rd down, carr used his versatility and his legs to roll out against one of our OLB's, brayton, who is a big LB, around 260+ lbs, it was obvious carr had the mismatch so it made the secondary freeze and it was a TD, so to me it was an impressive drive for you guys.

as far as our offense goes, i didnt think your db's looked good at all. gabriel is currently our 4th wr, curry and porter were missing via small injuries and if gabriel did what he did, then it is something that needs to be fixed cause you guys go against some pretty good wr's this year, gabriel is no slouch, and he could honestly be starting for a few teams, but we are so deep at wr. other things on defense, you guys didnt get much pressure, but to be honest with you, our OL is amazing. we were 6th best at sacks allowed last year, and we only got better, so dont sweat it. someone mentioned and it makes a ton of sense, capers is not going to unleash all of his packages and different schemes in one game, so it was a very vanilla-esque defense if you will. we dont know if they still would ahve gotten pressure, or confused our OL, but it is a good OL, im sure if it was a regular game we would have seen more looks.

another thing, your run defense didnt look to hot either, but that could be for a number of reasons. it could be the fact that our OL is gelling and just doig really good, or the fact that when we passed pressure was not put on, so we were able to dictate the pace.

carr is a really good qb, this year he is going to truly come into his own especially with the maturity of johnson, that guy is really good! then davis is a solid back and he can do his share of time management. it just looks like you need for your defense to come arond, but as afformentioned, it could be due to the fact that it is preseason and they wont unveil all the blitz packages.

all in all, it is just preseason relax!

gotta think of the positives which were, your offense marched down the field on one drive, very effeciantly. now if they were to leave him in, we dont know if it would have happened again, or if we would have made adjustments, but it doesnt matter because capers seen what he wanted to see, a score. but defensively you guys didnt fair too well, and i really believe that the reason why is because of our offense, it really is no joke, when we are full strength with porter, moss, curry, jordan, and an amazing OL, it is gonna be awesome. if the texans D comes around they could win, i'd say 7 or 8 games this year.

swisher
08-22-2005, 08:55 AM
..do you really want Raider fan or Bronco fan....


I hate Jim Rome.

SA Fan
08-22-2005, 09:42 AM
I hate Jim Rome.


Hey, you houston guys have it lucky with sporting news radio.

Here in SA we have to put up with Fox Sports Radio.

The morning extravangaza which, although I like Andrew Siciliano, is well, the nicest way I've heard the show described is "a dud."

And the Drive with (revolving cast of miscreats with no voice for radio) which has never been entertaining....NEVER.

The only shining light here were the local shows. One morning and one afternoon.
But the Hosts from the best show got promoted to the prime time talk radio slot, and replaced by the morning show hosts.

These hosts include some guy who is older than I am and I find quite immature for his age, and the other is (I'm not kidding) some guy who was a caller to a New York Radio show who impressed the radio heads one day and they shipped him here.
The guy cares nothing for texas sports and wants to talk about new york teams.

The Jets get more coverage on their show than the texans.

And the new morning show is a...I'll be nice... a DUD.

Jime Rome is now the shining light of the daily sports in this city.

I know most times he talks like a 14 year old.
And he reads too many aweful eamils just to comment on how aweful they are, but he is also the only voice of reason most times and has entertaining interviews.

Now for the real reason I posted.

I think the first team defense held up welll against what could be a top tier offense this year.

Moss held to 2 catches.

The 2 touchdowns on faggins were out of character for him. So I won't hold it against him.

As for the game:
I challenge ANYONE who can't be happy with a WIN on a game where the final play results in a SACK by a Friggin 3 MAN RUSH :headbang:

Exascor
08-22-2005, 09:59 AM
It's sad that Raiders fans are more supportive of the Texans than some Texans fans. How about waiting until we see what the regular season brings? Does complaining and (in other posts) calling for heads really make the team better off?

Marcus
08-22-2005, 11:25 AM
As for the game:
I challenge ANYONE who can't be happy with a WIN on a game where the final play results in a SACK by a Friggin 3 MAN RUSH :headbang:

Ok, your challenge is accepted. Show me when the Texans' 1st team defense ever got a "SACK by a Friggin 3 MAN RUSH" on the opposing team's 1st team offense? :challenge

Sorry . . a bunch of 3rd/4th-team scrubs who aren't going to make the team anyways, playing mop-up in the 4th quarter of a preseason game, just doesn't do it for me. (Oh BTW, yes I know Charlie Anderson is a good player, so don't go off on a tangent)

But we'll find out soon enough if I'm crying that the sky is falling. We play Dallas this week, where the starters on both sides of the ball will play at least a half. Just in case anyone hasn't been keeping up . . . Parcells has got much bigger problems with his offensive line than we do . . . especially the right side.

If Bledsoe ends up having as much time to throw the ball as Collins did . . . well . . .

TheOgre
08-22-2005, 11:54 AM
I think most of the Raider's games are going to be 40-33 games. Their offense is going to be great but their defense will be pathetic. Collins has a big arm that can get it down the field if you give him time. He has tremendous receivers and a stout line. Without a pass-rush, I would expect them to make us look silly. I think we will have a lot of complex blitz packages once the season starts.

Blake
08-22-2005, 11:56 AM
You know as well as I do that the reserves on both teams, particularly on the lines, played the 2nd half. If you don't want to get the point, you don't have to. :ok:

Oh, so when you said "After Collins and the 1st team offense is is not playing anymore" you really just meant particularly on the lines. But you said Collins and the first teamers. So stop your backtracking, and get the facts straight.

I just get sick of guys like you, who cry when the Texans dont dominate.

We arent the beasts of the NFL! You want a team that gives his QB 5 minutes to throw, and then want the defense to give thier QB 2 seconds to throw. I think the Chicken Little Brigade is calling your number Marcus...

Marcus
08-22-2005, 12:06 PM
I think the Chicken Little Brigade is calling your number Marcus...

Like I said earlier, we''ll find out soon enough.

Marcus
08-22-2005, 12:09 PM
I just get sick of guys like you, who cry when the Texans dont dominate.

We arent the beasts of the NFL!

But then you'll want to fire everyone if they don't make the playoffs, right? :brickwall

LBC_Justin
08-22-2005, 12:16 PM
But we'll find out soon enough if I'm crying that the sky is falling. We play Dallas this week, where the starters on both sides of the ball will play at least a half. Just in case anyone hasn't been keeping up . . . Parcells has got much bigger problems with his offensive line than we do . . . especially the right side.

If Bledsoe ends up having as much time to throw the ball as Collins did . . . well . . .
See there is your problem....

You still think that a fan can tell how good their team is going to be based on preseason action.

Newsflash: You still won't know crap even after the Dallas game.

Vinny
08-22-2005, 12:26 PM
yeah, that's one reason I don't comment too much on preseason games....they are just evaluation games. I think many of us read way way way too much into these games.

Blake
08-22-2005, 12:27 PM
But then you'll want to fire everyone if they don't make the playoffs, right? :brickwall

I know the NFL is the hardest sport to win in. There is so much parity with the salary cap, that anyteam has a a chance to win. All 32 teams want playoffs, all 32 teams fans want playoffs, but there are only so many spots that you just have to hope that your team stays healthy and mistake free.

To get to the point, I have no problem giving Dom his 5 years. I wouldnt trade my GM for any other in the NFL right now. And I feel that our OC is basically being told how to run his offense.

If we dont make playoffs I will be upset, but I wont agree with "Capers gotta go" until we start declining in wins.

Marcus
08-22-2005, 12:47 PM
See there is your problem....

You still think that a fan can tell how good their team is going to be based on preseason action.

Newsflash: You still won't know crap even after the Dallas game.

:ok: Fair enough. You have point. But next week I don't want to hear, "Well, Dallas has a good, stout OL", because they don't.

What's been a stick in my craw is this: This season . . this season, they are expected to have a winning season. They are not allowed to fail . . . and if they do, all the blame will unfairly be put on the coaches.

I think that is wrong. I think the expectations are too high.

There. I'm done. :goodnight

Austin_Texans_Fan
08-22-2005, 12:50 PM
Give the defensive front some time to gel. The are green together and have faced 2 very good O-lines so far.

Give it some time guys.

:texflag:

infantrycak
08-22-2005, 01:50 PM
yeah, that's one reason I don't comment too much on preseason games....they are just evaluation games. I think many of us read way way way too much into these games.

Naw, c'mon you are being too easy on them. It is obvious from the 1st two preseason games that nothing has changed and 8-8 is the best we can hope for. But what the heck, we will still beat Indy--they have gone 0-3 so far.

LBC_Justin
08-22-2005, 02:23 PM
Naw, c'mon you are being too easy on them. It is obvious from the 1st two preseason games that nothing has changed and 8-8 is the best we can hope for. But what the heck, we will still beat Indy--they have gone 0-3 so far.
If you think Indy going 0-3 in preseason is any indication of how good or bad they are going to be in the reguler season then you have a lot to learn about preseason.

I suggest doing a google search on Steve Spurrier.

Blake
08-22-2005, 02:29 PM
If you think Indy going 0-3 in preseason is any indication of how good or bad they are going to be in the reguler season then you have a lot to learn about preseason.

I suggest doing a google search on Steve Spurrier.

If i were you, I would do a google on sarcasm.

wags
08-22-2005, 02:30 PM
If you think Indy going 0-3 in preseason is any indication of how good or bad they are going to be in the reguler season then you have a lot to learn about preseason.

I suggest doing a google search on Steve Spurrier.

Cak will probably tell you to do a google search on sarcasm.

LBC_Justin
08-22-2005, 02:35 PM
If i were you, I would do a google on sarcasm.
aaaaahhhhhhhhhhh I didn't pick up on it.
:confused:

Blake
08-22-2005, 02:38 PM
aaaaahhhhhhhhhhh I didn't pick up on it.
:confused:

haha no problem man. Some people are more subtle than others in that department.

Pre-season wins are a tricky animal. Some teams kill in the pre-season, and is a sign of good depth, and great backup players. IE the steelers last year. They have great backups. But some teams lose those games due to depth, but doesnt mean the team is bad. IE the Pats. They might not have awesome depth players, but the first stringers get it done.

Does that make sense to anyone but me?

infantrycak
08-22-2005, 03:35 PM
aaaaahhhhhhhhhhh I didn't pick up on it.
:confused:

Internet sarcasm is so much harder to catch, but someone will bite every time.
:fishing:

titan hater
08-22-2005, 05:20 PM
:ok: Fair enough. You have point. But next week I don't want to hear, "Well, Dallas has a good, stout OL", because they don't.

What's been a stick in my craw is this: This season . . this season, they are expected to have a winning season. They are not allowed to fail . . . and if they do, all the blame will unfairly be put on the coaches.

I think that is wrong. I think the expectations are too high.

There. I'm done. :goodnight

The sky is not falling...Sure they played poorly on 2 series...Faggons/CC Brown got burned...Remember this is pre-season! For the 2nd week in a row the O looked good on its 1st chance. I think D is gonna be OK...They don't game plan for the 2nd preseason game. Look for a really good effort against the crackwagons...

Evans Fan
08-22-2005, 08:17 PM
Bills fans checkin in you guys have to talk a page out of buffalo defensive playbook : keep the offense guessing and blitz the hell out of them. The bills got six sacks against the colts (WOW) and running at them doesn't but u got to have big guy up front aka robaire smith and tj so you guys are set now u need linebackers who can rush the QB pity you guys didn't keep Posey now he really give buffalo three blitzing linebackers and steve foley would do you guys some good if you kept him. seems when linebackers leave houston the get better ( Foley, Posey) will Sharper and if you guys let peek go ( HA HA MAybe if he doesn't do well) will he flourish in another city? so your defense isn't bad but the linebackers are the problems

Crank_It_Up
08-23-2005, 10:01 AM
the texans first series consisted of 15 plays... the raiders first 3 series (not including a punt) was exactly 15 plays, so that might be why the raiders 1st team stayed in for the 4th series. Not to mention if I was an opposing coach, would I really be scared of the Texans injuring my starting QB?

Hopefully the defense will gel, hopefully the O-line will get better, hopefully I'll win the lottery.

Evans Fan
08-23-2005, 04:45 PM
the texans first series consisted of 15 plays... the raiders first 3 series (not including a punt) was exactly 15 plays, so that might be why the raiders 1st team stayed in for the 4th series. Not to mention if I was an opposing coach, would I really be scared of the Texans injuring my starting QB?

Hopefully the defense will gel, hopefully the O-line will get better, hopefully I'll win the lottery.




Your o line will gel but man it won't be that good cuz u don't have a star on the o line one guy who gets the pub

texan279
08-24-2005, 01:53 AM
Your o line will gel but man it won't be that good cuz u don't have a star on the o line one guy who gets the pub

So it takes one star who gets publicity to make an O line good? A group of solid O linemen is worse than 4 practice squad guys and a superstar? If that is the case who's "the star" on the Bills O line?

ATX
08-24-2005, 03:52 AM
Your o line will gel but man it won't be that good cuz u don't have a star on the o line one guy who gets the pub


this has got to be the funniest thing ive ever heard. stars don't win football games, teams do. thats all i have to say. if you can't see that, than i give up.

ATX
08-24-2005, 03:56 AM
Bills fans checkin in you guys have to talk a page out of buffalo defensive playbook : keep the offense guessing and blitz the hell out of them. The bills got six sacks against the colts (WOW) and running at them doesn't but u got to have big guy up front aka robaire smith and tj so you guys are set now u need linebackers who can rush the QB pity you guys didn't keep Posey now he really give buffalo three blitzing linebackers and steve foley would do you guys some good if you kept him. seems when linebackers leave houston the get better ( Foley, Posey) will Sharper and if you guys let peek go ( HA HA MAybe if he doesn't do well) will he flourish in another city? so your defense isn't bad but the linebackers are the problems


How is blitzing the offense a page out of the bills play book? 6 sacks in preseason, wow, ya'll should win the superbowl this year, let's just forfeit the season and give the trophy to the bills. this cracks me up.

infantrycak
08-24-2005, 08:28 AM
pity you guys didn't keep Posey now he really give buffalo three blitzing linebackers and steve foley would do you guys some good if you kept him. seems when linebackers leave houston the get better ( Foley, Posey)

Yeah buddy--Posey 8 sacks for us in 2002, 6.5 total in two years for the bills--he sure did become a havoc wrecker.

SESupergenius
08-24-2005, 11:17 AM
I just saw the tape again of the 1st team defense. Oh boy. There are pluses but there are many many minuses. I'm going to try to be objective despite my disagreement with management on the Buchanon and Greenwood acquisitions. First off, Peek and Babin both could get easily burned by cutback sweeps to the outside as they are not containing their areas. Any reverse of cutback sweep with give us problems. (ala KC and Phili) Wong's new position is really going to take time and experience. Same with Greenwood. How people are expecting our defense to be better in the short term is beyond me when we have 3 LB's that were not at that position last year. That coupled with the fact that Buchanon is new to this teams as well and got ripped when the Raiders played the 3-4 last year, leads me to believe we are in for a long season defense wise. Buchanon looked ugly on several plays and totally missed a tackle on his side of the field. He whiffed it and didn't even lay a hand on the TE. No excuse for that one, take off the #31 because he is not filling Glenns shoes at all. Greenwood did impress me on one play and then turned around an whiffed it on the next. He lost containment and weakly dove after Jordan on the next play for a big gain, he speed is good, but it isn't eye popping.

I liked what I saw from Payne and Walker, although Payne got manhandled on one play that was called a penalty...when they showed the replay it just looked like Payne got pancaked. On that play too, Jordan bolted a long run. Paynes injuries look like they are healing well so look for TJ to back him up, not take his job.

Faggins, well what can I say. He got mugged by Gabriel and then torched. You can say all the excuses you want, but if he does great on 95% of the plays but gives up huge scores on the other 5%, then that 95% is worth a bowl of beans. We need players to make plays, not be on the highlight film for the other team. He was in great position to knock down that jump ball to Gabriel but instead looked like he was going for the pick. It looked more like the safety was out of position (why was CC Brown playing there anyways with the 1st team??) and so I can't really chalk that up on Faggins, but he still did let his man get behind him.

Make excuses for preseason, play calling, vanilla base defense, non-starters, etc.., but this is what the Texans put on the field so this is what they are evaluated on.

Davis37
08-24-2005, 11:33 AM
Good post Ses. I didnt get to tape the game so I only got to watch it once and didnt get to focus on individuals very much.

Corrosion
08-24-2005, 11:43 AM
Your o line will gel but man it won't be that good cuz u don't have a star on the o line one guy who gets the pub

Who's this Pub guy .... maybe he should be blocking for Carr :pigfly:



Make excuses for preseason, play calling, vanilla base defense, non-starters, etc.., but this is what the Texans put on the field so this is what they are evaluated on.


What you see is what you get .....

Peek just CANT keep contain on the outside .... Worse is the fact that he hasnt produced much of a pass rush either .... :tomato:

C.C.Brown is playing w/ the first team because G.Earl has a seperated shoulder .... He's made a few mistakes in coverage but has been good in run support ..... NO! He wont take Earl's job this season .

SESupergenius
08-24-2005, 11:46 AM
We let go of McCree and we sign get a rookie 17th rounder to fill in. Nice.

TheOgre
08-24-2005, 12:00 PM
Faggins, well what can I say. He got mugged by Gabriel and then torched. You can say all the excuses you want, but if he does great on 95% of the plays but gives up huge scores on the other 5%, then that 95% is worth a bowl of beans. We need players to make plays, not be on the highlight film for the other team. He was in great position to knock down that jump ball to Gabriel but instead looked like he was going for the pick. It looked more like the safety was out of position (why was CC Brown playing there anyways with the 1st team??) and so I can't really chalk that up on Faggins, but he still did let his man get behind him.

CC Brown is playing because Glenn Earl is hurt. Faggins messed up by not making that INT in the endzone. Apparently Brown was actually the one that screwed up on that long TD that looked like Faggins fault. Brown was supposed to pick him up about 15-20 yds downfield and was out of position. I don't like the fact that Faggins told this to the media though.

beerlover
08-24-2005, 12:09 PM
We let go of McCree and we sign get a rookie 17th rounder to fill in. Nice.

McCree is now the back-up FS in Carolina even though they have injury issues to the defensive backs so that would suggest he was not the savior for here as well. look I liked Marlon but he was not in the Texans long term plans and was a F/A seeking a million bucks so more power to him and more opportunity for the Texans 6th rd draft choice CC Brown who has really been the surprise of the Texans 2005 draft :texans:

SESupergenius
08-24-2005, 12:13 PM
CC Brown is playing because Glenn Earl is hurt. Faggins messed up by not making that INT in the endzone. Apparently Brown was actually the one that screwed up on that long TD that looked like Faggins fault. Brown was supposed to pick him up about 15-20 yds downfield and was out of position. I don't like the fact that Faggins told this to the media though.
Yea pointing your finger at another player in the media should be a major no-no. In that play it clearly looked like CC was going to double team Moss instead of playing the center fielder roll. I think he bit on Collins' look at Moss.

SESupergenius
08-24-2005, 12:15 PM
6th rd draft choice CC Brown who has really been the surprise of the Texans 2005 draft :texans:Yea I'm sure he surprised Collins when he was torched for 80 yards. I know I was surprised. I just hope that no more surprises from this kid come our way.

Honoring Earl 34
08-24-2005, 01:14 PM
Faqggins could use some mentoring . This is where Aaron Glen will be missed most .

SESupergenius
08-24-2005, 01:18 PM
Faqggins could use some mentoring . This is where Aaron Glen will be missed most .
BINGO! Give that man a prize! Not only that, he could give Buchanon a lesson too. Buchanon should be our #3 and Glenn should have never been given the chance to walk.

TheOgre
08-24-2005, 01:19 PM
Faqggins could use some mentoring . This is where Aaron Glen will be missed most .

He played with Glenn for 2 years. I would hope he got some mentoring from Glenn during that time.

TheOgre
08-24-2005, 01:23 PM
Yea pointing your finger at another player in the media should be a major no-no.

On a related note, this hits on the one thing that really pisses me off about T.O. I can deal with his negotiation tactics, but he has no reason to call out McNabb like he has. If he has an issue with McNabb, he needs to voice that in house.

Marcus
08-24-2005, 01:26 PM
Well, if you ask me, ya'll are harping way too much on the secondary. Regardless of who we kept on the team, who we let go, or who we added, the bottom line is we have a good secondary.

But that good secondary still depends on the front 7 to its job and pressure the QB, which it is not.

The Preacher
08-24-2005, 01:28 PM
Well, if you ask me, ya'll are harping way too much on the secondary. Regardless of who we kept on the team, who we let go, or who we added, the bottom line is we have a good secondary.

But that good secondary still depends on the front 7 to its job and pressure the QB, which it is not.

Nuff' said.

Davis37
08-24-2005, 01:42 PM
Well, if you ask me, ya'll are harping way too much on the secondary. Regardless of who we kept on the team, who we let go, or who we added, the bottom line is we have a good secondary.

But that good secondary still depends on the front 7 to its job and pressure the QB, which it is not.


:tomato:
So true...
:crying:

infantrycak
08-24-2005, 02:42 PM
ya'll

Public Service Interruption...

Please, all Texans, learn that y'all is spelled y'all not ya'll. Thank you. You may not return to your regular programming.

Porky
08-24-2005, 06:57 PM
We let go of McCree and we sign get a rookie 17th rounder to fill in. Nice.

I have to say I don't understand why we got rid of Mcree either. He was a very good backup and spot starter. I didn't like some of the moves either this offseason, particualry Glenn, but I am willing to give them a full season before I totally rip every move they made.

SESupergenius
08-24-2005, 07:34 PM
I've been wanting to cool down a bit before the season starts so maybe this is my frustration getting out so that I can enjoy the season, but there are more signs of negative happening than positive.

ATX
08-24-2005, 09:12 PM
I have to say I don't understand why we got rid of Mcree either. He was a very good backup and spot starter. I didn't like some of the moves either this offseason, particualry Glenn, but I am willing to give them a full season before I totally rip every move they made.


I thought he was an unrestricted free agent. we never got rid of him, he left.

U4ikrob
08-25-2005, 10:34 AM
Good article from Lopez that sums up alot of my feelings and several others posted here.

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/sports/fb/texans/3319020

The Preacher
08-25-2005, 10:52 AM
I think the first half was more a sign of the Raiders' offense being for real than anything. I'll be seriously worried if Dallas does the same, but one half against a team with a good o-line and elite talent in skill positions can be deceiving. Look at what the Patriots did to Pittsburgh in the AFC Championship and you can see any great D can get manhandled on any given night. The Raiders don't have Tom Brady but I would say their talent level isn't that far off and could very easily be more explosive this year.

Battle Red Flash
08-25-2005, 11:09 AM
It's not the defense's fault.
The Raiders showed plays we had not seen before.
On D.Capers radio show, he said two long runs were on plays that they had not showed in practice.
How can you defend that????
It was like cheating!
The nerve of those guys using new plays.
Sheesh.
lol:

Corrosion
08-25-2005, 03:04 PM
I think the first half was more a sign of the Raiders' offense being for real than anything. I'll be seriously worried if Dallas does the same, but one half against a team with a good o-line and elite talent in skill positions can be deceiving. Look at what the Patriots did to Pittsburgh in the AFC Championship and you can see any great D can get manhandled on any given night. The Raiders don't have Tom Brady but I would say their talent level isn't that far off and could very easily be more explosive this year.


You have a point here ..... Collins does have some weapons at his disposal and in that first half it looked like vintage Kerry Collins ... move the ball between the 20's and throw interceptions in the red zone . Take away one Great play by Doug Gabriel and he would have had THREE red zone ints .
That offense does have the potential to put up points in a hurry if they limit their turnovers .

SESupergenius
08-25-2005, 03:32 PM
It's not the defense's fault.
The Raiders showed plays we had not seen before.
On D.Capers radio show, he said two long runs were on plays that they had not showed in practice.
How can you defend that????
It was like cheating!
The nerve of those guys using new plays.
Sheesh.
lol:
OMG! One long play was just a simple cutback against the block just like we are supposed to run....Denver does this and we just saw them the week before

On another long play it was simply a block over Wong and split Payne like a cheese sandwich. Tell me he's not already making excuses.

Marcus
08-25-2005, 03:52 PM
I just want to see a pass rush on Saturday night. I want to see Bledsoe get sacked every once in awhile. I want to see Bledsoe have to hurry his throws every once in awhile. I want to hear Babin's and Peek's names called by the announcers every once in awhile.

That's not too much to ask.

But if I hear the announcers constantly saying "Too much time!" or "Look at the time!" when Dallas has the ball . . .:bomb:

gobills!!!
08-26-2005, 12:56 AM
they sure do suck