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View Full Version : TJ had better pan out!


wrestler4life
08-18-2005, 10:33 PM
Just have been watching the Saints play the Patriots, and Jammal Brown looks awesome starting at right tackle. Also, the lineman from Fresno St. that the Patriots picked up looked pretty darn good also.

F-minus67
08-18-2005, 10:56 PM
Jammal Brown doesn't have the feet to play LT and Mankins wouldn't get the start over Pitts or Weigert this year. Give Casserly and Capers a little credit, they did pick Carr, AJ, D-Rob and Babins in the first.

ArlingtonTexan
08-18-2005, 10:58 PM
If I am not mistaken, TJ played fairly well himself in his first preseason game.

dtran04
08-18-2005, 11:10 PM
TJ played much much better than I thought he would. (which is great)

wrestler4life
08-18-2005, 11:11 PM
Well, we will see. I just thouht that he looked pretty stinkin good as a starter going up against McGinnist.

Runner
08-19-2005, 12:02 AM
If he was on our team we'd blast him the first time he got beat in a drill. I'm afraid familiarity breeds contempt with many on this board.

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
08-19-2005, 12:08 AM
The posts on here get funnier and funnier every day. Why the hell would we draft a RT in the 1st round?

ATX
08-19-2005, 12:10 AM
Cass has been right on with every pick he's made in the first round. He took Carr over Harrington. AJ fell to us, Drob fell to us and we picked them both up. Babin played well as a rookie. Tj will be the man, just wait and see.

wrestler4life
08-19-2005, 01:30 AM
The posts on here get funnier and funnier every day. Why the hell would we draft a RT in the 1st round?

Oh, I guess that we couldn't move him to LT?!?!
We haven;t been shifting guys around this offseason at all. :ok:

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
08-19-2005, 02:14 AM
Jammal Brown didn't even play the LT position in college. What makes you think he can in the NFL?

Dionysus22
08-19-2005, 06:01 AM
He played "OK" for the first pre-season game. I saw him take some plays off though. He would have a few great rushes then he'd seem to be waltzing with the guy. He'd have a good punch coming off the line, then we he saw the play was away from him he'd just stop and do this half-a** jog like he was actually pursuing the play. Then on one particular play I saw him fire off the ball and the qb rolled away from him and he just stop and watched him throw. I would expect that from Warren Sapp, someone who is proven in this league but also known to be lazy. Not a rookie trying to justify why we selected him with our first pick. Plus his legs should have been fresh since he was rotating in. But he did cause some damage. Over all I liked what I saw, potential wise, but he needs to do a few extra sprints after practice. :texflag:

beerlover
08-19-2005, 11:40 AM
hold on guys, everyone is making valid points but comparing apples to oranges. Travis Johnson has been nothing short of amazing so far, the best DT in the draft plus picked up what should be another HIGH 3rd rd draft pick :yahoo: Casserlys 1st round track record as the Texans GM has been A+

the key to Johnson will be how he develops his awesome strength/talent & how he focuses & dedicates himself professionally. he can be an All-Pro some day.

wrestler4life, I appreciate your opinion of Brown & Mankins your observations on their play is accurate, they both will be solid tackles in the NFL. upgrades over what we already have? possibly, but not as much as injecting some youth and talent on the D-Line. next year will be more fruitfull for the Texans as far as offensive lineman in the draft.

many of us wanted David Baas for example who went the next pick in the draft after Mankins to the 49ers to play center/guard. the Texans could then have the option of interchanging all thier Guards & rotating Centers as injury's and on the field performance dictated. this must & will be addressed next year, as well adding a young franchise LT :texans:

Lucky
08-19-2005, 11:46 AM
Jammal Brown didn't even play the LT position in college. What makes you think he can in the NFL?
What made the Texans think Riley could play LT? They took a chance.

Brown's a very good athlete for a 300+ lb man. The word is that Brown will move to LT for the Saints in '06 after Wayne Gandy is released for cap purposes.

The Texans needed a a young defensive lineman in this draft. Travis is the only defensive linemen on the roster selected by the Texans in the college draft. And if Gary Walker or Seth Payne go down with injuries (again), you'll be glad the Texans picked up Mr. T in the draft. I would have liked to see Jammal in a Texans uni. DJ & Heath Miller would have looked good, too. The Texans had just one 1st round pick. Travis was a good choice.

bckey
08-19-2005, 12:12 PM
In other words we drafted need instead of BPA.

beerlover
08-19-2005, 12:15 PM
In other words we drafted need instead of BPA.

I prefeer to think of it as BPA at a NEED position :texans:

Lucky
08-19-2005, 12:27 PM
In other words we drafted need instead of BPA.
Just as most every team does.

Bubbajwp
08-19-2005, 12:30 PM
Im sorry but no coaches draft bpa do you think a team with peyton manning would draft a QB because he was the best player left. NO

Honoring Earl 34
08-19-2005, 12:31 PM
:tv: You can't tell much from one game . Drafts are judged after about three years not three months .

The problem is we had some glaring weaknesses going into the draft . Derrick Johnson would not have addressed any .

Bubbajwp
08-19-2005, 12:32 PM
the players you draft also have to fit in your teams scheme

Bubbajwp
08-19-2005, 12:34 PM
Honoring Earl 34 You can't tell much from one game . Drafts are judged after about three years not three months .
You read my mind

Blake
08-19-2005, 12:46 PM
Teams draft BPA within reason of their perspective needs.

No, the colts wouldnt take a QB with their first round pick. But teams also factor in things like depth, contracts, and other variables, that we as fans dont look at.

Porky
08-19-2005, 04:06 PM
Since nobody has mentioned this yet....we should have drafted Derrick Johnson instead of TJ. :tomato:

SESupergenius
08-19-2005, 04:56 PM
Since nobody has mentioned this yet....we should have drafted Derrick Johnson instead of TJ. :tomato:
I think we should have. I mean if TJ is going to ride the pine his 1st year then a 3rd rounder like Pouha would not have made too much difference. Maybe I'm speaking ahead of myself but I don't TJ winning a spot over Walker, Robaire or a healthy Payne. And since we already have a backs in DD, Hollings and Wells, it made no sense to get a back just like DD, especially when you extend his contract. So yea I would have take DJ at teh #1 spot, especially if I had intentions on letting Sharper AND Foreman go. But hey, we have Pettaway!

Runner
08-19-2005, 05:05 PM
I think we should have. I mean if TJ is going to ride the pine his 1st year then a 3rd rounder like Pouha would not have made too much difference. Maybe I'm speaking ahead of myself but I don't TJ winning a spot over Walker, Robaire or a healthy Payne.

I think the D-line rotates a lot of people in and out during the course of a game. Non-starters can get plenty of snaps in the Texans' scheme.

rmartin65
08-19-2005, 05:08 PM
So yea I would have take DJ at teh #1 spot, especially if I had intentions on letting Sharper AND Foreman go. But hey, we have Pettaway!
i think pettway could be good with coaching.

Bubbajwp
08-19-2005, 05:10 PM
Can we please not talk about DJ again. :brickwall :brickwall :brickwall :brickwall
The draft is long gone.

Lucky
08-19-2005, 05:15 PM
Travis will be a "starter" in the Texans nickel package,where there run a 4-2-5. If you remember last year, it was on 3rd down when the Texans defense had the most trouble. The defense was 29th in the league on 3rd down conversions allowed. And they were last in the NFL for much of the year prior to their late season defensive stands against the Bears & the Jags.

I don't think TJ will get a ton of sacks, but I do think he'll help collapse the pocket. That's when the QBs will leave the pocket & run into the waiting arms of Peek & Babin. I think Derrick Johnson is an outstanding defensive talent and many teams will regret passing on him. But for all of his abilities, pass rushing wasn't one of them. The Texans had just spent $20+ million on a guy who plays the same position that DJ would have on this team. He may have been the BPA, but you can't load up on a certain postion in the salary cap era.

nunusguy
08-19-2005, 05:45 PM
The Texans had just spent $20+ million on a guy who plays the same position that DJ would have on this team. He may have been the BPA, but you can't load up on a certain postion in the salary cap era.
Oh yea, tell the Detroit Lions that. Many speculate they did that because Rogers is not completely healed, but as of right now they are carrying him
ahead of Williams on their DC. Since they run the 4-3, gotta wonder why
they passed on DJ (or anybody else) instead of selecting another WR as their
top pick - 3 yrs in a row and all top 10s.

Porky
08-19-2005, 05:54 PM
Travis will be a "starter" in the Texans nickel package,where there run a 4-2-5. If you remember last year, it was on 3rd down when the Texans defense had the most trouble. The defense was 29th in the league on 3rd down conversions allowed. And they were last in the NFL for much of the year prior to their late season defensive stands against the Bears & the Jags.

I don't think TJ will get a ton of sacks, but I do think he'll help collapse the pocket. That's when the QBs will leave the pocket & run into the waiting arms of Peek & Babin. I think Derrick Johnson is an outstanding defensive talent and many teams will regret passing on him. But for all of his abilities, pass rushing wasn't one of them. The Texans had just spent $20+ million on a guy who plays the same position that DJ would have on this team. He may have been the BPA, but you can't load up on a certain postion in the salary cap era.

TJ will be a fine player imo, and will improve our line. By contrast, Derrick will be an real impact player, and will be twice the player Greenwood is with some seasoning. I prefer to get impact players in round 1, those that are real difference makers, and playmakers. I just feel a 3-4 Dlineman can be had in a later round. Having said that, the early returns are encourging on TJ. As to your assertion that we couldn't have drafted another ILB, it's not as if we don't have a lot of cap money tied up in the Dline. Payne re-upped last offseason, and Walker the offseason before. Robaire Smith was signed for a high dollar FA contract, and now, we have first round money tied up on a fourth dlineman. I'm not sure I buy that as an excuse. I will be surprised if in five years, the fact that we passed on DJ is not something that will be a highly debated lingering question by most fans. I won't say I told you so then, because I said it on draft day.

SESupergenius
08-19-2005, 06:07 PM
But let's face it, TJ won't be a starter this year barring injury. If you look at most of the guys that went ahead of him, they will mostly likely be starters or applying tremedous pressure on the incumbent for his position. I get the sense that TJ is here to be a backup and provide a rest for the starters. For a guy that went 16th I'd expect a starter. Casey Hampton was drafted 19th, he started for the Steelers.

wrestler4life
08-19-2005, 06:08 PM
I am not saying that TJ will not pan out. I really hope he does. I just think that O-line should have been considered ahead of D-line.

Honoring Earl 34
08-19-2005, 06:12 PM
:challenge You guys who predict the future , I need 6 lottery numbers for tommorrow please .

DJ will only be as good as his Defensive line . Your superstar will be making tackles 6 yds down the field if they go right at him .

Lucky
08-19-2005, 06:12 PM
TJ will be a fine player imo, and will improve our line. By contrast, Derrick will be an real impact player, and will be twice the player Greenwood is with some seasoning...
For the sake of argument, let's say that I agree with you. When the Texans signed Greenwood, how did they know that DJ would be available when they drafted? Maybe they should know these things. But I can assure you that it caught me by surprise, and I've followed the draft since the time when Mel Kiper's hair was only 6 inches tall. Greenwood was available, he fit into what the team was looking for in a coverage ILB, and they signed him. Two months later, a great prospect playing ths same position is available in the draft. That's just reverse kismet, I can't blame the Texans decision making for making the call to sign Greenwood.

The Texans had two priorities in the offseason. Improve the pass protection & find a way to get to the QB. DJ isn't really an immediate answer to either. If the Texans don't improve in these areas, they won't win. And another GM & Head Coach get the benifits of having DJ on their team. I don't think that Casserly & Capers want to pick a guy for their successors. TJ can help this team win more than DJ can this season. And that's the most important season for the Texans braintrust.

As far as investing a high pick and young blood in the D-line, I think it's a good idea. So does the Pats Bill Belichick, who has picked 3 D-linemen in the 1st round since taking over in '01. The man's golden now, follow the trend.

infantrycak
08-19-2005, 06:17 PM
Casey Hampton was drafted 19th, he started for the Steelers.

You sure about that? Hampton only had 22 tackles in 2001. I think he played in 16 games but didn't start 16 games.

Edit:

OK he started mid-season, but even then they were pretty limited starts--1st "start" he played 20 defensive snaps. I'll bet TJ gets some 20 play games this season.

Link (http://www.steelers.com/team/player/49194/)

dtran04
08-19-2005, 06:36 PM
Starting just means that the team is weak at that position. By TJ not starting, that means we have some decent talent at those spots. In the future it looks like the only spots where rookies will actually start are at TE and LT if we get a stud.

SESupergenius
08-19-2005, 06:46 PM
You sure about that? Hampton only had 22 tackles in 2001. I think he played in 16 games but didn't start 16 games.

Edit:

OK he started mid-season, but even then they were pretty limited starts--1st "start" he played 20 defensive snaps. I'll bet TJ gets some 20 play games this season.

Link (http://www.steelers.com/team/player/49194/)
No he didn't start all 16 games, I never really said that, but he did start and I don't mean in a nickel package. He shared time with Clancy so that they could guage what they had and ultimately Hampton won outright. Hampton started the final 11 games that season, becoming the first rookie defensive lineman to start more than five games for Bill Cowher's team. Do you see that happening here? Who is he going to compete with?

TEXANRED
08-19-2005, 07:43 PM
If he was on our team we'd blast him the first time he got beat in a drill. I'm afraid familiarity breeds contempt with many on this board.

AMEN :cool:

TexansTrueFan
08-19-2005, 09:06 PM
i doubt TJ will dissapoint anyone, he will fill in nicely.

DocBar
08-19-2005, 09:15 PM
TJ is gonna be looked at as a big miss for the 15 teams ahead of Houston in the '05 draft in a few years. I'm liking the looks of the team more and more. Just think...we could have a D actually capable of turning in several 3 and outs a game this year instead of allowing 3 and longs to be converted at an unbelievable rate. D WINS CHAMPIONSHIPS!!!! O wins cheers and fans. Just keep looking at the class of the AFC South (Indy) and all the championships they've won.

TexansTrueFan
08-19-2005, 09:17 PM
TJ is gonna be looked at as a big miss for the 15 teams ahead of Houston in the '05 draft in a few years. I'm liking the looks of the team more and more. Just think...we could have a D actually capable of turning in several 3 and outs a game this year instead of allowing 3 and longs to be converted at an unbelievable rate. D WINS CHAMPIONSHIPS!!!! O wins cheers and fans. Just keep looking at the class of the AFC South (Indy) and all the championships they've won.


But you do need a little bit of O, atleast one who can get into the endzone a few times, look at the Ravens !!!!!

DocBar
08-19-2005, 09:24 PM
But you do need a little bit of O, atleast one who can get into the endzone a few times, look at the Ravens !!!!!
So true. I think we'll have a pretty happy medium there when we go to the AFC Championship this year....may or may not make the big game, but IMO we WILL advance to the AFC Championship this year. It's our turn to be the Cinderella team and I think the coaching staff is finally gonna open up the playbooks and let 'er rip.

Porky
08-19-2005, 09:38 PM
So true. I think we'll have a pretty happy medium there when we go to the AFC Championship this year....may or may not make the big game, but IMO we WILL advance to the AFC Championship this year. It's our turn to be the Cinderella team and I think the coaching staff is finally gonna open up the playbooks and let 'er rip.

You might want to lay off the sauce. :party:

DocBar
08-19-2005, 09:51 PM
You might want to lay off the sauce. :party:
But it makes my little world so warm and fuzzy. AND I get to post crazy predictions on here. It would be cool if that came true though, wouldn't it??? :texflag:

Honoring Earl 34
08-20-2005, 12:05 AM
:texflag: Pass the sauce please . I think all fans are hoping for the best .

DocBar
08-20-2005, 12:13 AM
:texflag: Pass the sauce please . I think all fans are hoping for the best .
The sauce rules when you're a Houston sports nut. It dulls the pain and gives you an outrageous sense of optimism. In all seriousness, Texans make the playoffs this year and Astros win the World Series next year due to Jason Lane's timely hitting and the rotation of Pettite, Oswalt, Rodriguez, Astacio and Backe. Entire Astros team will credit playing time for young talent as major factor in MLB championship coming to Houston for the 1st time.2007 will be much the same for Texans fans and Casserly and Co. will be voted the best in the biz since the Niners. Looking at dynasties in Houston. Get on the sauce AND the bandwagon

Honoring Earl 34
08-20-2005, 12:18 AM
:fans: I think the Rockets will win a title before the Astros and Texans but its not their turn . I'll go along with the Texans and Astros and a double shot of the sauce .

DocBar
08-20-2005, 12:26 AM
:fans: I think the Rockets will win a title before the Astros and Texans but its not their turn . I'll go along with the Texans and Astros and a double shot of the sauce .
Ummmm....Ya got me on that one. By about 10 years. Maybe we should see if Yao can pitch. Start a whole revolution in China over baseball and then we could go to Tokyo or Beijing for the World Series. Can you imagine the Chinese buffets in Beijing??? The sushi would be awesome.

Vinny
08-20-2005, 12:33 AM
Sushi is Japanese.

DocBar
08-20-2005, 12:49 AM
Sushi is Japanese.
Wow Vinny... Ya caught the whole Japanese/ Chinese point I was trying to make. Kudos to your amazing grasp on the obvious. And the sushi at most chinese buffets is actualy quite edible and priced just right. Vinny, please don't tell the chinese about this. I like their buffets.

Vinny
08-20-2005, 01:00 AM
I just didn't know why the sushi would be better in Mainland China then it would be here or anywhere else...that's all....its not a native Chinese dish. It wasn't so much me grasping the obvious than it is, "I don't understand".

DocBar
08-20-2005, 01:04 AM
I just don't know why the sushi would be better in Mainland China then it would be here or anywhere else...that's all....its not a native Chinese dish.
I was making a funny about chinese buffet's propensity for serving a traditional japanese delicacy. The funny was based upon Chinese interest in basketball due to Yao Ming and Japanese interest in baseball for decades.Did you even read the previous posts to that? It was all pure satyre. Just having some fun with other culture's enjoyment of our past times in (IMHO) a non-confrontational manner. I like foriegn interest in our sports and would welcome a true " WORLD" series between the best teams in the world. And at 7'6", Yao should throw about mach6 or better. Nolan Ryan would be awed. How could we get around the time zones though???

Vinny
08-20-2005, 01:05 AM
I read all the posts...unfortunately.

I just didn't 'get it' I guess.

beerlover
08-20-2005, 03:39 AM
as yen is to yang, Docbar is to Ibar and all things Texans are in balance and harmony

:texans:

Jwwillis
08-20-2005, 07:56 AM
He played "OK" for the first pre-season game. I saw him take some plays off though. He would have a few great rushes then he'd seem to be waltzing with the guy. He'd have a good punch coming off the line, then we he saw the play was away from him he'd just stop and do this half-a** jog like he was actually pursuing the play. Then on one particular play I saw him fire off the ball and the qb rolled away from him and he just stop and watched him throw. I would expect that from Warren Sapp, someone who is proven in this league but also known to be lazy. Not a rookie trying to justify why we selected him with our first pick. Plus his legs should have been fresh since he was rotating in. But he did cause some damage. Over all I liked what I saw, potential wise, but he needs to do a few extra sprints after practice. :texflag:

TJ and Peek both will need to learn to pace themselves. I think TJ is having to adjust to the speed in the NFL. I think for the 1st time in his life TJ is facing opponents he cannot dominate. I would venture to say he has never had to expend this much energy in a game in such a sort amount of time.

Mr.Scarface
08-20-2005, 09:31 AM
Riley play LT in college and in the Pros. Thats how they knew he could play LT.

Runner
08-20-2005, 11:23 AM
Riley's starts at left tackle in the NFL: 0 games

Unless you count the 1st pre-season game this year: 1 start, 1 series

dalemurphy
08-20-2005, 11:59 AM
Since nobody has mentioned this yet....we should have drafted Derrick Johnson instead of TJ. :tomato:


There is a fairly popular ideology held by people like Jimmy Johnson that it is wasteful to spend big dollars or very high draft picks on LBs. Basically, the defense should be constructed at the DL and at CB... After that, find athletes with a lot of speed and coach them up. Actually, Jimmy brought this philosophy to the NFL from Miami. As a Cowboy fan in Dallas in the late '80s, my dad and I would mock Jimmy's obsession with speed. If you look at what has taken place with our defense the past year, we've drafted Robinson and traded for Buchanan, we signed Robaire Smith and resigned Seth Payne, drafted Travis Johnson and released a Jamie Sharper (slowing and expensive) in order to replace him with a very fast LB (Greenwood)...

The philosophy was very effective in Dallas. Of course, holding to certain principles does mean one will miss out on things. For instance, we'd be very unlikely to draft Ray Lewis if we don't place the same value on LB as another team does. However, it's the construction of the complete team that is at stake, and as fans, we shouldn't get so caught up in one player. People in SD were screaming mad with they traded the right to draft Mike Vick away. Instead of getting Vick, they traded down and picked up Tomlinson and Drew Brees. While most people believe Vick to be the better Qb, I think their decision to bypass him has proven meritous. Even if Vick improves and becomes a truly special player, it can still be argued that the trade served SD well.

Barring a rash of injuries, this will be the year to judge Capers' defensive philosophy and his ability to execute it... He has, at least on defense, what he wants in place.

Jwwillis
08-20-2005, 12:37 PM
There is a fairly popular ideology held by people like Jimmy Johnson that it is wasteful to spend big dollars or very high draft picks on LBs. Basically, the defense should be constructed at the DL and at CB... After that, find athletes with a lot of speed and coach them up. Actually, Jimmy brought this philosophy to the NFL from Miami. As a Cowboy fan in Dallas in the late '80s, my dad and I would mock Jimmy's obsession with speed. If you look at what has taken place with our defense the past year, we've drafted Robinson and traded for Buchanan, we signed Robaire Smith and resigned Seth Payne, drafted Travis Johnson and released a Jamie Sharper (slowing and expensive) in order to replace him with a very fast LB (Greenwood)...

The philosophy was very effective in Dallas. Of course, holding to certain principles does mean one will miss out on things. For instance, we'd be very unlikely to draft Ray Lewis if we don't place the same value on LB as another team does. However, it's the construction of the complete team that is at stake, and as fans, we shouldn't get so caught up in one player. People in SD were screaming mad with they traded the right to draft Mike Vick away. Instead of getting Vick, they traded down and picked up Tomlinson and Drew Brees. While most people believe Vick to be the better Qb, I think their decision to bypass him has proven meritous. Even if Vick improves and becomes a truly special player, it can still be argued that the trade served SD well.

Barring a rash of injuries, this will be the year to judge Capers' defensive philosophy and his ability to execute it... He has, at least on defense, what he wants in place.

Im not so sure he has all the players wants yet on D. He has yet to see the new aquisitions play a down in regular season. Also, Capers philosophy is well know and was already judged by McNair. It's Capers and CC's ability to correctly choose players that fit into his philosophy and salary cap that will be determined. The verdict is still out on Greenwood and Buchanon. Walker and Payne have yet to prove that they can get back to there original form.

Vinny
08-20-2005, 01:56 PM
Very good post dalemurphy. Many teams around the NFL see the linebackers in this way. Just look at their average salaries compared to CB's and DE's across the board.