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View Full Version : Does Capers intentionally try not to win Preseason Games?


LBC_Justin
08-14-2005, 12:28 AM
The Texans are 2-12 in preseason games.
Not that it matters, it's preseason.

Marcus
08-14-2005, 12:39 AM
You ARE kidding, right? :thumbdown :wacko:

V Man
08-14-2005, 01:17 AM
How do you blame Capers for this one. Four chances on the one and no points, score a TD there and we win the game. He is not blocking nor running the ball.

Ibar_Harry
08-14-2005, 02:59 AM
How do you blame Capers for this one. Four chances on the one and no points, score a TD there and we win the game. He is not blocking nor running the ball.

Yes, but remember they only had 4.625 minutes to practice that play on two different days.

ATX
08-14-2005, 03:17 AM
i think the goalline situation was nothing more than extra practice for robaire at fullback. this is just a test, no need to worry, i think in a real game we might have tried a pass somewhere in there. did they just run that play left side, right side, left side, right side? no need to worry here

Ibar_Harry
08-14-2005, 03:26 AM
Actually, if you look at that play, it could be a QB naked boot leg, a throw to a WR like Kasper or AJ if the defense moves up, or just a flat power running play. That play should be a no brainer. Lombardi would turn over in his grave if you told him you couldn't make 1 yard in that kind of situation. I know you would practice until you could if he was the coach.

ccdude730
08-14-2005, 04:10 AM
since some of us are up so late....here is a quote from the chron

"I'm not trying to make excuses for our guys or anything, but we had two plays for the goal line," Carr said. "We didn't expect to run four down there. So we had to double up a couple of times."

alot of people are putting too much into those 4 plays when there is so much more to take away from the game. well, for the coaching staff at least.

ledzeppelin229
08-14-2005, 04:16 AM
Two plays for the goal line? Am I misunderstanding or did he just say a 'power run team' had two plays for a goal line situation? I know it's preseason, but surely there's a couple more basic sets that could have been tried.

Grid
08-14-2005, 04:36 AM
They go into preseason with a set number of plays to run I think.

HARRYJ
08-14-2005, 05:49 AM
I hate pre-season games. Too many people getting hurt. Rookies throwing their bodies around trying to get noticed. I believe the the Eagles pre-season record is similar to the Texans. :rolleyes: The only people that care about PS are the coaches and they don't care about wins and losses, they just want to see how the team will react in different situations.

Capster67
08-14-2005, 07:55 AM
I know I'm in the minority on this, but I do think preseason games help set a winning or losing tone for the upcoming season. It's no accident, for instance, that the Broncos have only had 1 losing preseason during Shanahan's 10 year tenure (2-3 last year) and they are regular playoff participants. Conversely our preseason and postseason records speak for themselves. I hope the coaches and players start to take more pride and begin to establish a winning tradition sometime in the near future.

HARRYJ
08-14-2005, 08:05 AM
Maybe you can hire Spurrier! :brickwall

LBC_Justin
08-14-2005, 09:18 AM
Maybe you can hire Spurrier! :brickwall
I could careless if we are 0-14 in the preseason. It means nothing to me. It is just a time to evaluate talent and get your timing down.

I was just throwing out the question. Do you think Capers focuses less on winning during preseason than some of the other coaches do?

For the record I like Capers and think he is doing a fine job as Head Coach. I don't blame him for doing a thing wrong in the game yesterday. The only mistake a coach can make in a preseason game is over playing a starter, and that guy gets injured. Capers pulled out guys early in this first game as he should.

BornOrange
08-14-2005, 09:33 AM
Last year New England and Philadelphia both went 1-3 in the preseason.

nunusguy
08-14-2005, 09:36 AM
If you have been watching the NFL for even only a couple years, you should know by now that winning or losing preseason games are meaningless. What
is meaningful is how the regular units play when they are in the game.
Last night there was only one significant disappointment from those units -
the offense failing to get in from the one on four straight attemps. Not sure
what that was about, but figuring it out will be a top priorfity this week for
Capers & Co. The other thing that's important is individual performanes by
new players to the team (especially draft picks and top FAs), but that's not so much a team. But the final score doesn't men squat - no reliable history of positive correlation between preseason and regular season records.

Vinny
08-14-2005, 12:34 PM
The first preseason game is a glorified scrimmage. I don't know why people question stuff like strategy in this kind of game. It's a game so they can get certain plays on film.

Porky
08-14-2005, 02:08 PM
The teams have created their own monster on this one. If the owners are going to treat it like a regular season game, ie. charge regular season game pricing, than the fans have a right to expect to see thier teams best performance and players. What would solve this is to charge a much lower price for the pre-season games. It seems to me the owners want it both ways. Loyalty is a two way street, but their is no end to the greed, and as usual the fans are the real losers.

Texans Pride
08-14-2005, 02:12 PM
Capers put together a lousy 3rd string team.. fire his arse!


God, even I've never been this bad and firing the coaches was my signature!

:loser

NoBullTexan
08-14-2005, 02:21 PM
Sad for the fans, especially season ticket holders, because they have to buy all the preseason games to get the games that count. Not good. But thats just the way it is.

The first preseason game is to evaluate people and positions. However, it could be a way to create momentum and confidence for the coming season, like it undoubtedly did for Denver. Have we ever beat Denver? If we are going to have a winning season, why not start now?

TexanJedi
08-14-2005, 02:22 PM
I hope the goalline failure was a wakeup call for Capers and his entire staff. You CANT take, arguably, one of the worst offensive lines in the league, go to an I formation, and run the ball up the middle 4 times !! Name me ONE successful NFL team that does this on a consistent basis.... You can ? hmm 1 out of of 32.. tells ya something doesn't it.

Vinny
08-14-2005, 02:26 PM
I hope the goalline failure was a wakeup call for Capers and his entire staff. You CANT take, arguably, one of the worst offensive lines in the league, go to an I formation, and run the ball up the middle 4 times !! Name me ONE successful NFL team that does this on a consistent basis.... You can ? hmm 1 out of of 32.. tells ya something doesn't it.
A preseason game is THE time to run the ball up the gut on the goal line over and over. Get it on tape and figure out just who is getting their blocks and who isn't. I'm not directing anything at you but I don't think some of you guys understand preseason football.

dtran04
08-14-2005, 02:28 PM
Hate to break it to you.....but the Texans really aren't one of the worst lines in the league. There are much worse. If anything, they excel at run blocking. Pass blocking is where it gets shoddy. Not making it in was terrible but as a coach you expect it to make it in. I'm sure the Colts would have loved to get in too against the Pats. Just gotta give the defense credit. I'm sure we would be singing the praises of our D-Line if the roles were reversed and not calling Mike Shanahan an *****. But then again.......its PRESEASON.

Errant Hothy
08-14-2005, 02:32 PM
I hope the goalline failure was a wakeup call for Capers and his entire staff. You CANT take, arguably, one of the worst offensive lines in the league, go to an I formation, and run the ball up the middle 4 times !! Name me ONE successful NFL team that does this on a consistent basis.... You can ? hmm 1 out of of 32.. tells ya something doesn't it.

WHY??? Why should the coaching staff take tehe four failed attempts seriously? They obvisouly wanted to see Smith at fullback, and teh time to due that is now in the PRESEASON when the cames mean less the bag of grass clippings sitting in my garage. I seriously doubt that the coaches would run the same four times in the regular season when the games count; and if you think that since they did it last night they would do it after Sept 11th you need to reevualate how you watch and process the NFL.

On the flip side, I'm rather to see that alot of people seem to be a bit testy after a loss, the honeymoon is definitly over; and everybody seems to now expect more form this team.

Lucky
08-14-2005, 02:35 PM
The teams have created their own monster on this one. If the owners are going to treat it like a regular season game, ie. charge regular season game pricing, than the fans have a right to expect to see thier teams best performance and players.
No they don't. Fans should be sophisticated enough to know that preseason games are necessary to get teams ready for the regular season. It's not a "real" game, you know that coming in. If you don't want to pay full price for these 2 games in order to have reserved seats for the 8 regular season games, the NFL knows that someone like me will.

This is the 4th preseason for the Texans. We should all know by now that Dom Capers will not gameplan until the 3rd preseason game. And he'll still keep things close to the vest. I'm just so happy I got to see some football & tailgate a little. Heck, I think I'll do it all over again next Saturday! :)

Ibar_Harry
08-14-2005, 02:36 PM
WHY??? Why should the coaching staff take tehe four failed attempts seriously? They obvisouly wanted to see Smith at fullback, and teh time to due that is now in the PRESEASON when the cames mean less the bag of grass clippings sitting in my garage. I seriously doubt that the coaches would run the same four times in the regular season when the games count; and if you think that since they did it last night they would do it after Sept 11th you need to reevualate how you watch and process the NFL.

On the flip side, I'm rather to see that alot of people seem to be a bit testy after a loss, the honeymoon is definitly over; and everybody seems to now expect more form this team.

As I recall from watching some of those games, the FRIDGE actually carried the ball.

Porky
08-14-2005, 03:16 PM
No they don't. Fans should be sophisticated enough to know that preseason games are necessary to get teams ready for the regular season. It's not a "real" game, you know that coming in. If you don't want to pay full price for these 2 games in order to have reserved seats for the 8 regular season games, the NFL knows that someone like me will.

This is the 4th preseason for the Texans. We should all know by now that Dom Capers will not gameplan until the 3rd preseason game. And he'll still keep things close to the vest. I'm just so happy I got to see some football & tailgate a little. Heck, I think I'll do it all over again next Saturday! :)

I think that's the point. As long as there are enough people like yourself that don't mind being bent over and reamed by the NFL, then by golly, there are enough greedy owners that will gladly take your money. But, I also know not everyone is like that, and actually like to see a top notch product for top notch prices. I will never buy season tickets as long as I must also buy a preseason package at the same price as the regular season. It's an insult and an affront to my sensibilities. I only wish I was still in the furniture business. I would have loved to seen you coming. I could have sold you a Loveseat for the price of a full length couch, and not only would you not have complained, you would have asked for more. How about an end table for the price of a dining room table. I still have friends that I'm sure can hook you up. I bet Mcnair loves customers like you. I am sure you are also in line for your $8 dollar beer, and your $5 dollar hotdog. As PT Barnum used to say, there's a sucker born every minute.

Ibar_Harry
08-14-2005, 03:43 PM
I think that's the point. As long as there are enough people like yourself that don't mind being bent over and reamed by the NFL, then by golly, there are enough greedy owners that will gladly take your money. But, I also know not everyone is like that, and actually like to see a top notch product for top notch prices. I will never buy season tickets as long as I must also buy a preseason package at the same price as the regular season. It's an insult and an affront to my sensibilities. I only wish I was still in the furniture business. I would have loved to seen you coming. I could have sold you a Loveseat for the price of a full length couch, and not only would you not have complained, you would have asked for more. How about an end table for the price of a dining room table. I still have friends that I'm sure can hook you up. I bet Mcnair loves customers like you. I am sure you are also in line for your $8 dollar beer, and your $5 dollar hotdog. As PT Barnum used to say, there's a sucker born every minute.

If they didn't charge for the preseason they would have to charge you much more for the regular season games. I agree with you though. What's going to be real interesting is if the fans start leaving early which is what McClain was saying was happening last night. Right now McNair ain't being hurt in the pocket book and his embarrassements have been relegated to the expansion club excuse, but at some point the gloves will come off.

Vinny
08-14-2005, 05:11 PM
Right now McNair ain't being hurt in the pocket book and his embarrassements have been relegated to the expansion club excuse, but at some point the gloves will come off.What 'embarrassments'?

TexansTrueFan
08-14-2005, 07:06 PM
GEEEZ one pre-season game and we need to fire the whole staff already huh, man i love yalls over view on a game where our starters play one series, and the rest is back up players. I wont jump to any conclusions until the final second of our first game against the bills on 9/11 !!!!!

Grid
08-14-2005, 07:52 PM
Mr. McNair is awesome.. please dont question his motivation when it comes to prices or loyalty to the fans.

Keep in mind that he was expecting MAYBE 500 million to bring a team to houston.. but went ahead and took out loans for the full 700 million that was required. he is STILL paying for this team and probably will be for a good while longer.

I dont care if the rest of the league makes preseason games free.. I would still pay to get in just cause I know its helping Mr. McNair pay off the debt that much quicker.

TexansTrueFan
08-14-2005, 07:57 PM
some of yall need to look at the bright side !!!

Porky
08-14-2005, 08:02 PM
Mr. McNair is awesome.. please dont question his motivation when it comes to prices or loyalty to the fans.

Keep in mind that he was expecting MAYBE 500 million to bring a team to houston.. but went ahead and took out loans for the full 700 million that was required. he is STILL paying for this team and probably will be for a good while longer.

I dont care if the rest of the league makes preseason games free.. I would still pay to get in just cause I know its helping Mr. McNair pay off the debt that much quicker.

Mr. Mcnair is beyond reproach? What is he a Saint? Did he get carved into the side of Mt. Rushmore when I wasn't looking or something? I fully understand the intent of preseason games, and have no problems at all with it. What I have a problem with is charging paying customers the same price for an inferior product, and especially FORCING said customers to purchase the inferior product to have an opportunity to buy the superior product. I'm glad to know you will help Mr. Mcnair pay for his team seeing as the Texans are one of the high revenue clubs. I'm sure he will appreciate your hard earned money as he flys around on luxury airplanes, and limo's. It might come in handy if he wants to move up to the Russian cavier and stop eating that inferior cavaier he has been forced to eat on his Lear jet.

BradK10
08-14-2005, 08:09 PM
Wow, first off, yall all need to take a step back, and let me say something...

I moved to Chandler, AZ back in January. Yall are sitting here whining about paying regular season prices for preseason games.

Last night, I went with some friends to go check out the Cardinals vs. Cowgirls game, expecting to just buy a cheapy endzone seat for like 20 bucks. Well, I wasn't familiar with the Bidwell family and the BS that fans here have dealt with for years (what fans are left the Bidwells didn't piss off to no end).

You think what Bud Adams did was bad? He did us a favor by leaving. What the Bidwells have done here is hold football fans prisoner. When we walked up to the game last night, they had actually closed off the seats that were cheaper, and the only seats you could buy were $58. FIFTY EIGHT BUCKS!!! That was the cheapest.

Apparently, this is quite common, and the Bidwells have actually done this for regular season games as well, blocked off the cheap seats.

Folks, quit your b!tchin' because as Texans fans, we've got it good.

TexFanWV
08-14-2005, 08:36 PM
Man you guys are going a little overboard after only the first PRE SEASON game. I think Vinny is the only person that is speaking rationally about the first game and about what the pre season is for. Guys that are screaming for a coach to be fired after a PRE SEASON game obviously don't know what it is all about (Bottle O Bud).
Oh and by the way PORKY maybe you should take a chill. If you don't like pre season prices then don't go. Watch it on tv or listen to it on the radio. If that doesn't work for you maybe you should move to Canada and become a CFL fan. I hear there ticket prices are pretty cheap all year round.

michaelm
08-14-2005, 08:37 PM
I believe Carr was alluduing to the fact that we only have two goal line plays installed this early in the preseason. As you practice more and more plays, they get installed in the game day playbook.
The coaching staff will install more of the offense as the regular season approaches. :ok:

Porky
08-14-2005, 09:55 PM
Oh and by the way PORKY maybe you should take a chill. If you don't like pre season prices then don't go. Watch it on tv or listen to it on the radio. If that doesn't work for you maybe you should move to Canada and become a CFL fan. I hear there ticket prices are pretty cheap all year round.

I don't go, and for the reasons stated. My point was that alot of people expect to see the best possible product on the field if they are going to pay premium prices. So, when fans come to a MB and start complaining about not trying to win a preseason game, I believe this is part of the rational. I am simply trying to explain the thought processes behind a lot of the complaining. Would you want to go to a Merecedes dealership, and pay 50k for what you thought would be a Mercedes, only to drive out in a Hyundai? I have heard this from many people. You people think I make this stuff up or something? Not everyone is a kool-aid drinker.

BradK10
08-14-2005, 09:58 PM
now i know how some others feel here. intelligent posts go ignored.

Porky.....Texans fans have it good man.

Hervoyel
08-14-2005, 10:08 PM
I've concluded that I no longer want to go to preseason games. To borrow Porky's analogy I've always known that this "Mercedes dealership" was selling me a Hyundai during the preseason but I'm no longer so starved for football that I'll pay that Mercedes price tag.

It just makes no sense to me at this point though I admit I've paid for tickets the last two years. I understand why they don't put much focus on winning and agree with it but I can no longer justify to myself paying full price to watch a team that's not trying to win all that hard.

I'll go to regular season games and pass on the preseason games from now on.

WWJD
08-14-2005, 10:08 PM
I think, to be fair, that owners should offer preseason games at a lower price than regular season games. People go knowing they aren't going to see the team at their best or even the best players. It would create goodwill between the owners and fans and I don't imagine too many owners would go hungry over the loss of a few dollars per ticket. It won't happen but it's just a thought.

Porky
08-14-2005, 10:09 PM
now i know how some others feel here. intelligent posts go ignored.

Porky.....Texans fans have it good man.

So your rational to this is "they all do it"? That's a good one. So now we are talking about degrees of bad are we? So, I got the Hyundai and you got the 88 Yugo, so I should feel better about my deal than you do on yours? Listen, where I come from wrong is wrong. Ripped off is ripped off. Trying to rationalize a team charging regular season prices to watch a bunch of guys play who won't be there in two weeks, while the coaching staff experiments, and could care less if they win or not is wrong. So, it's no surprise that Bidwell is more wrong than Mcnair. Either way, it's wrong, and I wouldn't buy season tickets under that scenerio for any price. There are thousands of Houston Texans fans who agree with me. It's just that there are enough people who don't mind being reamed that the NFL and it's owners don't have anything to worry about in this regard. The reason they do it is because they can.

infantrycak
08-14-2005, 10:11 PM
I will never buy season tickets as long as I must also buy a preseason package at the same price as the regular season. It's an insult and an affront to my sensibilities.

Or the insult would be if they halved the price of the pre-season games and then distributed the difference across the regular season games so the same money was collected and then acted as if they were doing you or anyone else a favor--but hey, your sensibilities would be met. Do you feel better now?

HJam72
08-14-2005, 10:11 PM
I don't think Bottle O Bud is being serious. It's hard to tell though because I always take the message boards so seriously. :rolleyes:

HJam72
08-14-2005, 10:12 PM
Geez, we had like 5 simultaneous posts (and now I'm making it worse).

TexFanWV
08-14-2005, 10:21 PM
I don't go, and for the reasons stated. My point was that alot of people expect to see the best possible product on the field if they are going to pay premium prices. So, when fans come to a MB and start complaining about not trying to win a preseason game, I believe this is part of the rational. I am simply trying to explain the thought processes behind a lot of the complaining. Would you want to go to a Merecedes dealership, and pay 50k for what you thought would be a Mercedes, only to drive out in a Hyundai? I have heard this from many people. You people think I make this stuff up or something? Not everyone is a kool-aid drinker.
Okay, but what do you think is going to allow fans to see the best possible product when it counts on sept. 11, if they don't have these full speed, live competition practices called the PRE SEASON? You cannot get that kind of look by just practicing against the scout team. I am sure you understand that. People like yourself need to also understand that we are not paying 50k for a Mercedes and getting a Hyundai. We are paying 50k for a look at next years Mercedes that is not out and no one else has seen it yet. That is exciting for some of us and that is why we will pay the price. If you are fine with not getting a look at the new model then don't PAY and wait for the real thing. That is all I am sayin.

HJam72
08-14-2005, 10:39 PM
You can look at my car for 10,000. :tomato:

LBC_Justin
08-14-2005, 11:58 PM
I am paying around $350 to watch the Texans on TV this year.

So I don't feel sorry for people (even during preseason), who get to go hang out with other Texans fans(you don't realise how much you'll miss this till it's gone), drink some beer, BBQ, check out the cheerleaders and root for the Texans in person. (I search for news on the Texans like a crack addict in need of a fix. I got Satalite Radio, read the Chronicle and various other sources online but it doesn't seem to quite satify my itch. Hopefully NFL Sunday Ticket in HD will do the trick)

Also, True tailgaters need a Preseason to get ready for the real season, to build up their tollerance, practicing their heckling, and hone their face painting skills.

I can't wait for the season to begin!!

BradK10
08-15-2005, 12:01 AM
I am paying around $350 to watch the Texans on TV this year.

So I don't feel sorry for people (even during preseason), who get to go hang out with other Texans fans(you don't realise how much you'll miss this till it's gone), drink some beer, BBQ, check out the cheerleaders and root for the Texans in person. (I search for news on the Texans like a crack addict in need of a fix. I got Satalite Radio, read the Chronicle and various other sources online but it doesn't seem to quite satify my itch. Hopefully NFL Sunday Ticket in HD will do the trick)

Also, True tailgaters need a Preseason to get ready for the real season, to build up their tollerance, practicing their heckling, and hone their face painting skills.

I can't wait for the season to begin!!

I second this post.

Hervoyel
08-15-2005, 12:09 AM
True tailgaters do not need a preseason to get ready for the real season. That's a common misconception due to the fact that they can and will tailgate anything that even remotely resembles a game.

TexHorns
08-15-2005, 03:17 AM
The Texans are 2-12 in preseason games.
Not that it matters, it's preseason.

IMO preseason is just to knock the rust off the starters and see how the depth stacks up. I think that our depth, being such a new franchise, is just now developing so it has resulted in quite a few losses in preseason. Now as for the goal line attempt the other night I would rather Dom use preseason to experiment and maybe find some something we can use in reg season than to just rely on what is obvious. I have faith that we will punch it through when it counts more times than not. With all that said the coaches can achieve the main objectives without necessarily winning hence 2-12.

Porky
08-15-2005, 02:16 PM
Or the insult would be if they halved the price of the pre-season games and then distributed the difference across the regular season games so the same money was collected and then acted as if they were doing you or anyone else a favor--but hey, your sensibilities would be met. Do you feel better now?

As long as they don't force people to buy the preseason package, I have no problem with your suggestion. That's supply and demand. What isn't supply and demand is FORCING people to buy tickets to an inferior product in order to qualify to buy tickets for the superior product. Now, they can charge 10 thousand a ticket for all I care. If there are 70 someodd thousand *****s out there willing to pay it more power to them. They can charge anything they want for preseason tickets. Again, if their is enough demand, the market will dictate the price. The problem here is that the market is not dictating the price. They know well and good that every stadium in this league would be very lucky to be even close to half full at regular season prices. Instead of letting the market work (ie lowering the costs until consumers feel the product has a fair price) they instead force their patrons to purchase the inferior product tickets to have the right to buy the superior tickets. This is very close to getting into anti competitive or anti-trust problems, but the bigshots in Washington will never call them on it. I feel the same way about Drayton McClain and his refusal to allow outside drinks or food into his stadium. Talk about anti competitve...don't get me started....don't even get me started. :brickwall

infantrycak
08-15-2005, 02:40 PM
The problem here is that the market is not dictating the price.

The market has determined already that the price they charge is supported otherwise the games wouldn't be sold out. See, I think the problem here is having a price printed on season tickets. This debate wouldn't exist if all they told you was 1 season ticket for all home games is $X--you wouldn't know if you were getting the pre-season tickets for free or at the same price.

Now if you want to get me on a rant about individual pricing try talking about individually priced options on cars that you can't purchase individually--ex. on Nissan Titan pickups you can only purchase the $750 sun roof if you purchase the $2000 DVD player.

wags
08-15-2005, 02:45 PM
Herv, did you take that baby's picture after the Browns game last year?

Porky
08-15-2005, 04:13 PM
The market has determined already that the price they charge is supported otherwise the games wouldn't be sold out.

The games are not sold out because the market has supported it at the price charged imo, the games are sold out because there is enough demand for regular season tickets that people accept the preseason package so they can get the regular season package. The only way to know if you are right or I am right is to stop forcing folks to buy preseason games in order to purchase season tickets. If they did that, and the games still sold out at thier current price, I would be wrong. Even in that event, I just feel it is fundamentally wrong to make people buy one inferior product in order to qualify for the better product. Give people a choice. Some folks may opt to purchase the exhibition games along with regular games. That's fine. Others may opt not to. Last time I looked you can ask for 32 thousand different combinations of Whataburgers, but can only get one combination of season tickets? What is this, communist China! :tomato:

michaelm
08-15-2005, 07:55 PM
a good compromise might be to purchase the season tickets and sell the preseason ones.
I don't really agree with your posts on this matter, but I will admit that you would most likely have a difficult time getting the price printed on the preseason tickets...

Porky
08-15-2005, 09:10 PM
Oh, geez. Get off the soapbox.

That does sound a bit high and mighty doesn't it. Hehehehe. :goodnight

LBC_Justin
08-15-2005, 11:07 PM
I feel the same way about Drayton McClain and his refusal to allow outside drinks or food into his stadium. Talk about anti competitve...don't get me started....don't even get me started. :brickwall
It could be worse...
At the Irvine Spectrum Center (Orange County's version of the The Woodlands Pavillion) a Corona costs $12 and a Domestic Beer cost $10.