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nunusguy
08-09-2005, 08:56 AM
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Sucker Jerry Jones bought it hook, line, & sinker when Cass got a 3rd round
pick for Drew Henson - now rumors are Cass is gonna make him another "can't miss" deal, a large tract of Real Estate in the Louisiana swamps that's a great place for building houses - no telling what Cass will
get for this "very valuable property" - watch out for those gators & quick
sand there Jerry boy.
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" Posted on Tue, Aug. 09, 2005
Henson's status gets shakier every day
By GIL LEBRETON
Star-Telegram Staff Writer

Last Saturday's scrimmage provided the fitting synopsis to Henson's first week in training camp. His long pass to Ahmad Merritt soared high and true, but seemed to wither about one stride short of its mark -- incomplete. Henson completed only four of his next 12 passes, failing to reach the end zone.
Don't jump to conclusions, Parcells has cautioned the media.
"I'm not going to go into those guys yet," he said Monday morning, dodging a question about his three quarterbacks. "I told you that I'll talk about them after a couple of [preseason] games."
It doesn't take a sociology degree, however, to see that in newcomer Drew Bledsoe, Parcells has a No. 1 quarterback whom he feels he can trust. Bledsoe's training camp performance thus far could best be described as confident, but unspectacular.
Not that Parcells is looking for spectacular.
Henson, meanwhile, has been undistinguished to the point of prompting some sideline-watchers to think he might be losing his No. 2 status to Tony Romo.
Henson admitted he didn't have a good first scrimmage.
"Yeah, I would have liked to have been more effective," he said. "I've got to make the corrections, learn from my mistakes and keep moving forward. I don't have time to look back."
Parcells may not have time, either. He has structured practices to give equal opportunities to all three quarterbacks -- equal snaps, equal attempts in the two-minute drill and equal playing time once preseason games begin.
Henson shrugged off a question about that putting added pressure on him and Romo.
http://www.dfw.com/mld/dfw/sports/columnists/gil_lebreton/12338765.htm

Huge
08-09-2005, 10:06 AM
That's what they get for messing with a guy's natural mechanics.

Parcells also screwed up by not putting Drew in after our playoff chances disappeared. Simply didn't understand the move. What was the point in not playing Henson? If he tanks, at least you know he tanks and you move on. If he does well enough to give you hope, at least you have that.

And now we have Bledsoe and it's back to square one. We still don't know what we have with Henson and we still have an over the hill QB (I don't care how much younger he is than Testaverde) that will take snaps away.

HowBoutThemCowboys!
08-09-2005, 12:47 PM
Some deals work out for both sides, some don't. In this case right now it isn't looking good for Henson but it's still too early to tell. I wouldn't nessacarily call Jones a sucker, he's made some good trades in his day. Like last year when we delt out our first rounder to Buffalo and drafted Julius Jones in the second round and received a second first round pick for 2005.

WWJD
08-09-2005, 05:38 PM
I heard a rumor on the radio....the ESPN station in Dallas that Randy Galloway has and they were batting around a rumor that the Cowboys were interested in dealing for Rivers in San Diego.

I didn't pay much attention and I don't know how accurate that is but anyway that's what's out there.

Texas Torture
08-09-2005, 06:10 PM
i think the writing was on the wall last t-day vs a struggling bear tm, when bill put in drew for a struggling-wounded duck testeverde, whose career was already running on empty. and then pulled drew back out a qtr later. it was a bad piece of coaching to take the air out of the balloon of an aspiring qb- who does bill think he is?? mike ditka?

but at the same time, if drews' picture of success is to beat tony 'i can't believe i'm still in the nfl' romo out for bu qb, then maybe they should share a cab leaving oxnard.

DFAN
08-09-2005, 07:04 PM
That's what they get for messing with a guy's natural mechanics.

Parcells also screwed up by not putting Drew in after our playoff chances disappeared. Simply didn't understand the move. What was the point in not playing Henson? If he tanks, at least you know he tanks and you move on. If he does well enough to give you hope, at least you have that.

And now we have Bledsoe and it's back to square one. We still don't know what we have with Henson and we still have an over the hill QB (I don't care how much younger he is than Testaverde) that will take snaps away.


Well in BP defence they were mathimaticlly in until the last week.

I never was on the Henson Bandwagon. Didnt like the trade the trade to begin with. As long as BP is coaching the Cowboys Henson will not start.

I for one do not want to tank a season to find out if some baseball reject can make it in the NFL.

Wolf
08-10-2005, 12:07 AM
I agree with huge. Cowboys weren't going anywhere. I would have seen what Drew had to offer. I always thought BP was a good coach. This season will tell. I just don't understand why he gets "his" guys (bledso, Keshawn) when they are on the downside of their careers.

nunusguy
08-11-2005, 03:59 PM
From a person who's not a Cowboys fan, but a somewhat interested bystander, I have to say I think many of the Cowboys faithful are amazingly
tolerant & patient of Parcells. Parcells decision to ignore the development of a young QB and instead pick up a veteran FA QB to run the team is a clear indication that he's sacrifycing the teams future for a quick, near-term fix. I knew coming in that Parcells didn't give a crap about the history and tradition of the Cowboys, but I didn't think he would screw up their future. But I guess when a teams fans have hated its owner as long and as much as they've hated Jones, they will give a new coach more opportunites than most to somehow succeed. But the part of it that's really hard to understand is how
Jones just passively stands by and lets him do it - he's got his new stadium
deal over in Ft.Worth, why doesn't he stand up to Parcells, he owns the team ?

DFAN
08-11-2005, 04:52 PM
From a person who's not a Cowboys fan, but a somewhat interested bystander, I have to say I think many of the Cowboys faithful are amazingly
tolerant & patient of Parcells. Parcells decision to ignore the development of a young QB and instead pick up a veteran FA QB to run the team is a clear indication that he's sacrifycing the teams future for a quick, near-term fix. I knew coming in that Parcells didn't give a crap about the history and tradition of the Cowboys, but I didn't think he would screw up their future. But I guess when a teams fans have hated its owner as long and as much as they've hated Jones, they will give a new coach more opportunites than most to somehow succeed. But the part of it that's really hard to understand is how
Jones just passively stands by and lets him do it - he's got his new stadium
deal over in Ft.Worth, why doesn't he stand up to Parcells, he owns the team ?


Henson isnt Carr, Manning(Eil), Harrington, Palmer ect... He is a baseball reject who hadnt played football in 3 years. A project.

How is BP screwing up the future of the Cowboys? By not playing a QB who is hasnt played football in 3 years and only played 8 or 9 games in college? The Cowboys right now are in better shape than they were 3 years ago.

Its Arlington not Ft Worth. Any who. I can't believe you said JJ should step in and say something to BP. When all you ever heard about Jj is he needs to stay out of the football part of the team. He's finally doing that and now he's going to get bash for that as well? Funny.

nunusguy
08-11-2005, 06:02 PM
Its Arlington not Ft Worth.
FYI, Arlington is actually part of the Ft Worth metropolitan area just as Plano & Irving are part of the Dallas metro division. And now that I think of it, since
the Cowboys will be moving from the municipality of Irving to Arlington, the Ft Worth Cowboys would be the most appropriate name, especialy when you
realize Ft Worth, unlike Dallas, was truly a cowtown at one time. Eventually Dallas may get its own NFL team again.

DFAN
08-11-2005, 09:38 PM
FYI, Arlington is actually part of the Ft Worth metropolitan area just as Plano & Irving are part of the Dallas metro division. And now that I think of it, since
the Cowboys will be moving from the municipality of Irving to Arlington, the Ft Worth Cowboys would be the most appropriate name, especialy when you
realize Ft Worth, unlike Dallas, was truly a cowtown at one time. Eventually Dallas may get its own NFL team again.


The stadium is being built in Arlington. The city of Arlington voted on it. Not Ft Worth. But thanks for the geography lesson. :thumbup

HowBoutThemCowboys!
08-11-2005, 10:08 PM
From a person who's not a Cowboys fan, but a somewhat interested bystander, I have to say I think many of the Cowboys faithful are amazingly
tolerant & patient of Parcells. Parcells decision to ignore the development of a young QB and instead pick up a veteran FA QB to run the team is a clear indication that he's sacrifycing the teams future for a quick, near-term fix. I knew coming in that Parcells didn't give a crap about the history and tradition of the Cowboys, but I didn't think he would screw up their future. But I guess when a teams fans have hated its owner as long and as much as they've hated Jones, they will give a new coach more opportunites than most to somehow succeed. But the part of it that's really hard to understand is how
Jones just passively stands by and lets him do it - he's got his new stadium
deal over in Ft.Worth, why doesn't he stand up to Parcells, he owns the team ?



How exactly has Parcells ruined our future?

Look at the nucleus of our defense: Spears, Canty, Ware, Burnett, Roy Williams, Terrence Newman, Anthony Henry, Bradie James. All players have unlimited ceilings and are all under 30. Our DL is set for years to come as is 3/4 of our LB unit. We're set in the secondary too.

On offense we have promising young players. Witten is a Pro-Bowler, J Jones is considered by many to be an up-and-coming star, Al Johnson has been praised by many preseason mags as an up-and-coming center. We need youth along the OL, but Rogers and Peterman look good (that's 3/5 of the line that looks good and young). WR is something that needs an infusion of health as well......Keep an eye on Patrick Crayton.

I'd say we have an almost PERFECT blend of youth and experience. BP has done an outstanding job! QB is a problem area......that may need some work, but I'm still not convinced that Henson and Romo are duds. Bledsoe will do fine for the Cowboys. Parcells is preaching patience.......so I'll be patient.

WWJD
08-11-2005, 10:25 PM
I've eaten some serious crow over the summer. I was one of the ones that wanted Bill gone....I felt he was not the right coach for the Cowboys but I was wrong. They've done some really good things with the draft and FA this year and have definitely upgraded a suspect defense. I'm concerned about the offense and Bledsoe but I'll reserve judgement until I see them play some. Julius Jones is the real deal for sure so they can build around him. But QB is a real question mark. Time will tell.

nunusguy
08-12-2005, 08:16 AM
BP has done an outstanding job!
Hold that thought and get in that long line along with Jones to buy some "very valuable" swamp ground over in Louisiana from Cass.

Huge
08-12-2005, 09:35 AM
Henson isnt Carr, Manning(Eil), Harrington, Palmer ect... He is a baseball reject who hadnt played football in 3 years. A project.

How is BP screwing up the future of the Cowboys? By not playing a QB who is hasnt played football in 3 years and only played 8 or 9 games in college? The Cowboys right now are in better shape than they were 3 years ago.
Then why is Henson on the roster? If you, as a head coach, don't trust in his abilities, then get rid of him. But how do you know you can't trust his abilities unless you play him?

And with Bledsoe being as old as he is (and ineffective), you've got to start looking for his replacement pretty damn soon. And with Henson on the roster, Jerry is going to think they don't need to do so.

How exactly has Parcells ruined our future?

Look at the nucleus of our defense: Spears, Canty, Ware, Burnett, Roy Williams, Terrence Newman, Anthony Henry, Bradie James. All players have unlimited ceilings and are all under 30. Our DL is set for years to come as is 3/4 of our LB unit. We're set in the secondary too.

I'd say it's pretty safe to say Henry's ceiling is pretty limited. And while I'm a big fan of Bradie, he hasn't done anything yet. Williams and Newman will be great. Spears, Canty, Ware and Burnett are rookies. And how many times has a team had every draft pick from one season pan out? I don't think it's ever happened for a team that already had some semblence of depth.

On offense we have promising young players. Witten is a Pro-Bowler, J Jones is considered by many to be an up-and-coming star, Al Johnson has been praised by many preseason mags as an up-and-coming center. We need youth along the OL, but Rogers and Peterman look good (that's 3/5 of the line that looks good and young). WR is something that needs an infusion of health as well......Keep an eye on Patrick Crayton.
Witten is a great TE. But were his numbers a reflection of our lack of depth at WR? Meaning, if we had better WRs, I don't think you'd see so many passes going Witten's way. But he is good.

Jones is going to have to do more than just a really good half of a season before I'm sold. I'm glad he's on our team but if he played for the Eagles, I'm sure most Cowboys fans would tell their fans we're skeptical of him.

Al Johnson is currently battling Andre Gurode for the starting C spot. Can't really boast about him yet. Rogers can't seem to stay healthy and Larry Allen would be a shoo-in as our RT is Parcells trusted Peterman enough to put him at LG (and apparently, Bill doesn't trust him enough to do that yet). Patrick Crayton is battling Quincy Morgan for the #3 WR. That's not a ringing endorsement.

I'd say we have an almost PERFECT blend of youth and experience. BP has done an outstanding job! QB is a problem area......that may need some work, but I'm still not convinced that Henson and Romo are duds. Bledsoe will do fine for the Cowboys. Parcells is preaching patience.......so I'll be patient.
I'd disagree about the blend. Until you see them on the field, you don't know what you have.

Our biggest problem is that Parcells refuses to address our biggest need: a good young QB. And the reason he continues to address this area is because he refuses to coach through a rebuilding period. And considering where we came from, that's what we're going through right now. This team is not ready to compete with the elite and won't be for at least 2 more years (unless we continue to ignore the QB problem, then it'll be longer). Had they addressed this problem within the past few years, then we'd be on the verge of competing with our skill players progressing along with the veterans.

In this sense, Parcells has screwed the future. How long the ramnifications last remain to be seen but time will tell.

nunusguy
08-12-2005, 07:16 PM
The face of the soon to be Ft Worth-Arlington Cowboys is now an Arkansas
hick who spends most of his time fantasizing about a team in another century
and another old man who is from Jersey who doesn't give a squat about the franchise but will pimp it anyway he can for his own ego trip. How long has it been since this was a half-way descent organization ?

WWJD
08-12-2005, 10:16 PM
You do realize that the Cowboys haven't played in Dallas for decades now right? The name won't change....Arlington isn't really much different than Irving except it's a few more miles down the road.

Don't always agree with Jerry but he's no hick.

As for Bill he wouldn't stay if he didn't want to. He has more money than life left to spend it in and doesn't need the high profile because everybody in football knows who he is. So the pimp theory doesn't work. He's there because it's his job and he wants to be there. If that changes next season he'll leave.

HowBoutThemCowboys!
08-12-2005, 11:02 PM
The face of the soon to be Ft Worth-Arlington Cowboys is now an Arkansas
hick who spends most of his time fantasizing about a team in another century
and another old man who is from Jersey who doesn't give a squat about the franchise but will pimp it anyway he can for his own ego trip. How long has it been since this was a half-way descent organization ?

Get a life.

HowBoutThemCowboys!
08-13-2005, 01:29 AM
I'd say it's pretty safe to say Henry's ceiling is pretty limited. And while I'm a big fan of Bradie, he hasn't done anything yet. Williams and Newman will be great. Spears, Canty, Ware and Burnett are rookies. And how many times has a team had every draft pick from one season pan out? I don't think it's ever happened for a team that already had some semblence of depth.


What's limited? That's a loaded term. He is a physical CB not a cover corner and will never be a cover corner and wasn't brought in to be one. That's Newman. Vice versa, Newman will never be a physical CB. It depends in what you are looking for in a player and how he fits the schemes you want to run. There is more than one type of a player for every position in football.

What you have in these young players is great potential. That can't be denied. Other teams would love to have it, I am sure the 3-4 scheme of the Texans could use some pass rush. the potential is what we didn't have in years past is that same potential. That's the excitement.



Witten is a great TE. But were his numbers a reflection of our lack of depth at WR? Meaning, if we had better WRs, I don't think you'd see so many passes going Witten's way. But he is good.

What's the difference? When the WR weren't producing he did, if the WR produces I am sure Witten's numbers will go down and to me that's a great indication. At the end, what matters is how well did your offense do and how many points you scored. So having a great TE and a WR group that can be good, will only make the offense better. It's not about the individual stats and players. It's about how good your team is.

Jones is going to have to do more than just a really good half of a season before I'm sold. I'm glad he's on our team but if he played for the Eagles, I'm sure most Cowboys fans would tell their fans we're skeptical of him.

He has shown enough to make every one excited. He has shown more in half a season than Dominic Davis has as long as he has been in the league. I think the cowboys feel more secure about the RB position than the Texans do or should. And sometimes you just have to have the eye for players. Certain players just have it, and this time next year you won't even have the slightests of doubts. For now, the Cowboy fans will bear down, grin and will tell you wait and see. The one thing that most non Cowboy fans have to remember is that they should be prepared to eat crow...


Al Johnson is currently battling Andre Gurode for the starting C spot. Can't really boast about him yet. Rogers can't seem to stay healthy and Larry Allen would be a shoo-in as our RT is Parcells trusted Peterman enough to put him at LG (and apparently, Bill doesn't trust him enough to do that yet). Patrick Crayton is battling Quincy Morgan for the #3 WR. That's not a ringing endorsement.


I have no idea what you were trying to say in the above paragraph. Al Johnson showed his potential and playing ability last year. If we didn't have gurode I would be perfectly happy and satisfied with his play. With Guorode battling Johnson for the starting spot, it only high lights the fact that we have great depth at the position. And you think that's bad?

I agree, Rogers and the RT spot is a question mark. We knew that going in and it still is a question mark. But comparing it to last year when we had three holes on the right side of the OL, now we have 1. Rome wasn't built in one day.

The same goes for Morgan and Crayton. if Crayton happens to take playing time away from Morgan then great, we are that much deeper. Just because players are battling for spots doesn't mean that they suck. It's competition, it's good and it means you have depth. So if Morgan goes down, we have Crayton who can step in (if he so happens to beat him for the #3 spot).

I am just not sure why you think depth is bad? Especially if there is competition between proven players and players who are stepping up!!


I'd disagree about the blend. Until you see them on the field, you don't know what you have.

A very generic statement, but I can't argue with that.


Our biggest problem is that Parcells refuses to address our biggest need: a good young QB. And the reason he continues to address this area is because he refuses to coach through a rebuilding period. And considering where we came from, that's what we're going through right now. This team is not ready to compete with the elite and won't be for at least 2 more years (unless we continue to ignore the QB problem, then it'll be longer). Had they addressed this problem within the past few years, then we'd be on the verge of competing with our skill players progressing along with the veterans.

In this sense, Parcells has screwed the future. How long the ramnifications last remain to be seen but time will tell.


Hmmmm.....the Cowboys have been able to address many needs in one off season. Every cowboy fan knew that the problems weren't going to be fixed in one off season, except the anti-cowboys who like to come in and re-state the obvious.

Plus Parcells said it last year how are you suppose to find a QB? Dial 1-800-quarterback? Where is the young talented QBs that you think we should have brought in and developed? Wasn't the consensus in this was a very weak QB class? So Cowboys should have gambled and drafted for a need instead of drafting talented players.

And btw, how do you know that he is not developing a young QB? Just because the texans who were a new team threw carr to the wolves doesn't mean that's the only way to develop a QB. Favre, McNabb, McNair, Pennington, Delhomme, Volek, Brady, green, bulger, warner, all either sat on the bench for a year or longer or took different paths to the QB stardom in the NFL.

nunusguy
08-13-2005, 10:08 AM
Get a life.
I do have a life and its right here on the Texans' Board and I certainly wouldn't be a nuisance to others on their team's Board - why are you ?

beerlover
08-13-2005, 10:42 AM
OK, children stop it your killing me :heh:

lets wait for some football then we can better discuss the outcomes of these fine, young, NFL wanna be superstars. Henson must have some tools otherwise the Cowboys/Texans would never have invested so much time & money at least from a buisness side. Parcells is notorious for not playing newbee's (Pennington) unless they where 1st overall picks (Bledsoe) so I would'nt read too much there.

on a side note I can't wait to see how Julius Jones performs in his second year compared to Steven Jackson. its mono el mono now with that extra 1st pick sidelined (Spears). lets see who is the genius & best back now :drool:

HowBoutThemCowboys!
08-13-2005, 12:08 PM
I do have a life and its right here on the Texans' Board and I certainly wouldn't be a nuisance to others on their team's Board - why are you ?

How am I a nuisance? That's pretty bad your life's on this message board. The only thing your good for is putting down the Cowboys and Cowboys fans as much as you can. You crossed the line when you said "The face of the soon to be Ft Worth-Arlington Cowboys is now an Arkansas hick" "and another old man who is from Jersey who doesn't give a squat about the franchise but will pimp it anyway he can for his own ego trip. How long has it been since this was a half-way descent organization ?"

Give me a break. Post like a mature adult for once in your life.

nunusguy
08-13-2005, 02:46 PM
The only thing your good for is putting down the Cowboys and Cowboys fans as much as you can.
What would a Philidelphia Eagles fan, or a KC Chiefs fan, or a Cowboys fan, etc. be doing on this teams Board extolling what he considers to be the virtues about his team - why wouldn't he be on his own team's Board with others who were interested in his team? Why do you think this is the forum to talk about your team ? Don't you understand, I mean why do you even prefer to spend time on this Board since its obviously not your team - perhaps your team's Board has banned you ?

Huge
08-13-2005, 03:03 PM
The face of the soon to be Ft Worth-Arlington Cowboys is now an Arkansas
hick who spends most of his time fantasizing about a team in another century
and another old man who is from Jersey who doesn't give a squat about the franchise but will pimp it anyway he can for his own ego trip. How long has it been since this was a half-way descent organization ?
Decent organization in what way?

What's limited? That's a loaded term. He is a physical CB not a cover corner and will never be a cover corner and wasn't brought in to be one. That's Newman. Vice versa, Newman will never be a physical CB. It depends in what you are looking for in a player and how he fits the schemes you want to run. There is more than one type of a player for every position in football.
And in today's NFL, do you think physical CBs are going to be the more successful ones? Or do you think they're going to rack up more PI penalties?

And "unlimited ceiling" is also not often used on players that are about to celebrate their 29th b-day. If you think Henry is going to improve dramatically while he's in Dallas you're delusional.

What you have in these young players is great potential. That can't be denied. Other teams would love to have it, I am sure the 3-4 scheme of the Texans could use some pass rush. the potential is what we didn't have in years past is that same potential. That's the excitement.
"Potential" means you haven't done squat yet. When we drafted Shante Carver, Greg Ellis and Ebenezer Ekuban we had "potential" to improve our pass rush. It's 2005 and we're still hoping it improves.

He (Jones) has shown enough to make every one excited. He has shown more in half a season than Dominic Davis has as long as he has been in the league.
Davis has shown he can produce more than 1,000 yards.
Davis has shown he can produce double digit TDs.

But yeah, other than that Jones has shown much more.

I think the cowboys feel more secure about the RB position than the Texans do or should. And sometimes you just have to have the eye for players. Certain players just have it, and this time next year you won't even have the slightests of doubts. For now, the Cowboy fans will bear down, grin and will tell you wait and see. The one thing that most non Cowboy fans have to remember is that they should be prepared to eat crow...
Yeah, after signing Thomas and drafting Barber I feel pretty good about our RBs. But I sure was thankful we did that.

I have no idea what you were trying to say in the above paragraph. Al Johnson showed his potential and playing ability last year. If we didn't have gurode I would be perfectly happy and satisfied with his play. With Guorode battling Johnson for the starting spot, it only high lights the fact that we have great depth at the position. And you think that's bad?
It's not that difficult to understand.

You said Johnson was praised as an up-and-coming center. I simply pointed out that this "up-and-coming" center is fighting for his job (and losing) with a player that's been in Parcell's dog house since he was drafted (Gurode).

What you choose to look at as "great depth", I consider "lack of options". And if you'd like to look at our rushing offense from last year (bottom 3rd) as evidence of why I have my point of view...feel free.

I agree, Rogers and the RT spot is a question mark. We knew that going in and it still is a question mark. But comparing it to last year when we had three holes on the right side of the OL, now we have 1. Rome wasn't built in one day.
If you agree that Rogers is a question mark, why would you claim that he, Peterman and Johnson make up 3/5 of our "good and young" OL?

One hole on the right side (RG) was filled by Marco Rivera. He's not what I would classify as "young".

If Rogers is serviceable at RT, then Larry Allen will stay at LG. This means Peterman is on the bench.

Now eventually I'd like to see a line-up like this:

LT - Adams
LG - Peterman (after Allen retires)
C - Gurode (I think he makes a better center than Johnson)
RG - Future draft pick
RT - Rogers

Hopefully a few of these guys will eventually live up to their expectations. So far, neither have (not counting the veteran Adams).

The same goes for Morgan and Crayton. if Crayton happens to take playing time away from Morgan then great, we are that much deeper. Just because players are battling for spots doesn't mean that they suck. It's competition, it's good and it means you have depth. So if Morgan goes down, we have Crayton who can step in (if he so happens to beat him for the #3 spot).

I am just not sure why you think depth is bad? Especially if there is competition between proven players and players who are stepping up!!
The problem is you're labeling Morgan as "proven" and Crayton as "stepping up". What has Morgan proven? How has Crayton "stepped" up if he passes an unproven player?

[quote=HowBoutThemCowboys!]Hmmmm.....the Cowboys have been able to address many needs in one off season. Every cowboy fan knew that the problems weren't going to be fixed in one off season, except the anti-cowboys who like to come in and re-state the obvious.
The QB position has needed to be addressed for the past several years. This goes all the way back to Aikman's decline. Do you think it's wise to ignore the most important position on the field as long as you're addressing your other needs?

Plus Parcells said it last year how are you suppose to find a QB? Dial 1-800-quarterback? Where is the young talented QBs that you think we should have brought in and developed? Wasn't the consensus in this was a very weak QB class? So Cowboys should have gambled and drafted for a need instead of drafting talented players.
See above to where I said it should've been addressed several years ago.

And consider where our current QB depth came from:
Bledsoe - 33 year old vet on his 3rd team.
Henson - former baseball player
Romo - undrafted free agent

Yeah, I can see how we took the safe route with those guys instead of gambling.

Tell you what, you make a list of talented players that the Cowboys have drafted since 2000 and I'll make a list of the players they've drafted in the same time period that are no longer on the team and we'll compare to see which list is longer.

And btw, how do you know that he is not developing a young QB? Just because the texans who were a new team threw carr to the wolves doesn't mean that's the only way to develop a QB. Favre, McNabb, McNair, Pennington, Delhomme, Volek, Brady, green, bulger, warner, all either sat on the bench for a year or longer or took different paths to the QB stardom in the NFL.
Should I make a list of QBs that were thrown in the fire and succeeded as a comparison? It's always been my philosophy. Only way you're going to get better is gametime reps. Of the guys you mentioned, they got those reps after players in front of them were injured (Green, Volek, Brady, Bulger, Warner) or got the reps playing in other leagues (Warner, Delhommme).

But like I said, that's just me. I don't mind setting my team back for a couple of years if it means we'll be better down the road. Parcells doesn't do that because he can't handle the losing seasons while waiting on the QB to develop.

DFAN
08-13-2005, 04:23 PM
The QB position has needed to be addressed for the past several years. This goes all the way back to Aikman's decline. Do you think it's wise to ignore the most important position on the field as long as you're addressing your other needs?.

I'm not for sure but I think this little debate started becasue someone said BP is ruining the franchise. Since BP has been there he hasnt had much options at QB. The only year we could had drafted one was 2003 when we could had got Lefty. JJ had asked BP to stay with what they had and see if one could pan out. Niether did. I do agree though it should had been addressed ealier. But what team does that when they have a QB like Aikman? GB did we'll see it works out. Denver did, that didnt work out. Miami didnt do it. Niners did and that worked out real well. I wont say NE because no one knew that would happen.



Tell you what, you make a list of talented players that the Cowboys have drafted since 2000 and I'll make a list of the players they've drafted in the same time period that are no longer on the team and we'll compare to see which list is longer.


Isn't that with most teams. I won't go back to 2000 but I think the last 2 drafts have been very good. I know they haven't proven it yet but no one from this past draft has. Doesn't mean you cant be exited about the potential.

Should I make a list of QBs that were thrown in the fire and succeeded as a comparison? It's always been my philosophy. Only way you're going to get better is gametime reps. Of the guys you mentioned, they got those reps after players in front of them were injured (Green, Volek, Brady, Bulger, Warner) or got the reps playing in other leagues (Warner, Delhommme).

Henson hasn't played in 3 years. There is a difference in throwing him the fire and throwing others into the fire.


But like I said, that's just me. I don't mind setting my team back for a couple of years if it means we'll be better down the road. Parcells doesn't do that because he can't handle the losing seasons while waiting on the QB to develop.

I agree somtimes. The 89 Cowboys I agree not this year. We have a good mix of young talent and good vets. We have a chance to compete. If he throws Henson out there he's telling the team that devloping Henson is more important than winning.

What makes you think putting Henson in there will make us better down the road? What make you think leaving him on the bench for a while wont be better? It can work both ways. There is no science to how to develop a QB.

HowBoutThemCowboys!
08-13-2005, 05:15 PM
What would a Philidelphia Eagles fan, or a KC Chiefs fan, or a Cowboys fan, etc. be doing on this teams Board extolling what he considers to be the virtues about his team - why wouldn't he be on his own team's Board with others who were interested in his team? Why do you think this is the forum to talk about your team ? Don't you understand, I mean why do you even prefer to spend time on this Board since its obviously not your team - perhaps your team's Board has banned you ?


You seem to be the one that's so intrested about the Cowboys. You've started 8 different threads alone about Dallas. I only talk about Dallas everytime someone like you starts a thread concerning them. What do you expect me to do, ignore your "jerry jones swamp land" thread, or ignore your "Parcells 3-4 defense" thread.
The General NFL Disscussion board and Houston Sports Scene boards are great, I love posting in them, but when someone starts a Cowboy thread I'll gladly post about the Cowboys in them. They're my team. I'm also good friends with one of this board's mods, Fiddy, which is an added bonus.
I respect the Texans organization greatly and hope for the best with them. Alot of the guys who post here are class acts even though they dislike the Cowboys, like Vinny, Fiddy, LonghornBabe, LMBH, just to name a few. There are also excellent Cowboy fans like WWJD, Huge, and DFAN. And no, I'm not banned at any other board, I'm actually planned to be the assistant admin to a future Houston based sports website Fiddy is currently developing.

Huge
08-13-2005, 05:16 PM
I'm not for sure but I think this little debate started becasue someone said BP is ruining the franchise. Since BP has been there he hasnt had much options at QB. The only year we could had drafted one was 2003 when we could had got Lefty. JJ had asked BP to stay with what they had and see if one could pan out. Niether did. I do agree though it should had been addressed ealier. But what team does that when they have a QB like Aikman? GB did we'll see it works out. Denver did, that didnt work out. Miami didnt do it. Niners did and that worked out real well. I wont say NE because no one knew that would happen.
It started with this quote:

From a person who's not a Cowboys fan, but a somewhat interested bystander, I have to say I think many of the Cowboys faithful are amazingly tolerant & patient of Parcells. Parcells decision to ignore the development of a young QB and instead pick up a veteran FA QB to run the team is a clear indication that he's sacrifycing the teams future for a quick, near-term fix. I knew coming in that Parcells didn't give a crap about the history and tradition of the Cowboys, but I didn't think he would screw up their future. But I guess when a teams fans have hated its owner as long and as much as they've hated Jones, they will give a new coach more opportunites than most to somehow succeed. But the part of it that's really hard to understand is how Jones just passively stands by and lets him do it - he's got his new stadium deal over in Ft.Worth, why doesn't he stand up to Parcells, he owns the team?
Which I totally agree with for reasons I've already stated. Outside that statement from nunusguy, the rest is a bunch of bait to get people to bite.

Isn't that (draft picks not panning out) with most teams. I won't go back to 2000 but I think the last 2 drafts have been very good. I know they haven't proven it yet but no one from this past draft has. Doesn't mean you cant be exited about the potential.
I'd say it happens with every team. But it's was epecially bad between the time Jimmy left and Bill began to get his input as to which players we drafted.

Consider this:
2000 Draft -
Dwayne Goodrich - Gone
Kareem Larrimore - Gone
Michael Wiley - Gone
Mario Edwards - Gone
Orantes Grant - Gone

2001 Draft -
Quincy Carter - Gone
Tony Dixon - Gone
Willie Blade - Gone
Markus Steele - Gone
Matt Lehr - Gone
Daleroy Stewart - Gone
Colston Weatherington - Gone
John Nix - Gone
Char-ron Dorsey - Gone

2002 Draft -
Roy Williams - Great pick
Andre Gurode - Underachiever
Antonio Bryant - Gone
Derek Ross - Gone
Jamar Martin - Gone
Pete Hunter - Gone
Tyson Walter - 2nd team
Deveren Johnson - Gone
Bob Slowikowski - Gone

2003 Draft -
Terence Newman - Great pick (although a no-brainer at the time)
Al Johnson - Battling for starting job
Jason Witten - Great pick
Bradie James - Favorite pick of this draft
B.J. Tucker - Gone
Zuriel Smith - Decent pick for what he can bring to ST
Justin Bates - Gone

Now I can accept that attrition (injuries, free agents, etc.) happens with every team. But spare me the "So Cowboys should have gambled and drafted for a need instead of drafting talented players".

Henson hasn't played in 3 years. There is a difference in throwing him the fire and throwing others into the fire.
Again, I disagree because of the philosophy I believe in. It was one thing not to play him last season after we were done. But to not send him to NFL Europe was beyong moronic.

I simply believe a QB needs reps in games before he's going to improve. If he doesn't improve (I'm talking over the course of a season at least), then you know he's not your man and you continue your search to find him.

I agree somtimes. The 89 Cowboys I agree not this year. We have a good mix of young talent and good vets. We have a chance to compete. If he throws Henson out there he's telling the team that devloping Henson is more important than winning.

What makes you think putting Henson in there will make us better down the road? What make you think leaving him on the bench for a while wont be better? It can work both ways. There is no science to how to develop a QB.
You and the others that think we have a chance to compete this year simply have a different view of the team than I do.

Personally, I want the Super Bowl. Anything less than that is pointless. Teams that finish 12-4 and are knocked out of the second round accomplish as much as the team that finished with the worst record in football.

But no, I wouldn't put Henson in this year. It's a bit late for that. That's why I wanted him to play last year.

DFAN
08-13-2005, 05:43 PM
Not going to dbate all points dont have time and my typing skills suck and it would take me for ever.

I still don't see how BP has ignored the development of a young QB. He's been here for 3 seasons. His 1st JJ asked him to leave the QB situation alone just to see if they had anything. They found the didnt. His 2nd year he had Romo and Henson. I think everyone would say it was best to bring in a vet than to rely on a undrafted FA and reject baseball reject who hadn't played football in 3 years. Now his 3 rd he's being accused of not developing a young QB. He basically had 2 years to find one and devlelop one. I say give it time.


I understand sending him to NFLE would had been good but they kept him here to work with Lee on his throwing motion. He was still throwing like he was throwing a baseball. The dude threw 5000 passes in the offseason.

DFAN
08-13-2005, 07:11 PM
Why do you think this is the forum to talk about your team ?


Because it's the NFL forum. Texans MB but NFL forum. If I/we were talking about the Cowboys on the Texans forum, I could see you taking issue with that.


BTW you did start this thread.

Huge
08-13-2005, 07:56 PM
Not going to dbate all points dont have time and my typing skills suck and it would take me for ever.

I still don't see how BP has ignored the development of a young QB. He's been here for 3 seasons. His 1st JJ asked him to leave the QB situation alone just to see if they had anything. They found the didnt. His 2nd year he had Romo and Henson. I think everyone would say it was best to bring in a vet than to rely on a undrafted FA and reject baseball reject who hadn't played football in 3 years. Now his 3 rd he's being accused of not developing a young QB. He basically had 2 years to find one and devlelop one. I say give it time.


I understand sending him to NFLE would had been good but they kept him here to work with Lee on his throwing motion. He was still throwing like he was throwing a baseball. The dude threw 5000 passes in the offseason.
I don't blame Parcells for what happened before he got here. That was clearly on Jerry's part. But last season was all Parcells.

And Henson throwing 5000 passing during the offseason and not showing much improvement is a perfect example of why I think gametime is best for a QB's development.

WWJD
08-13-2005, 10:18 PM
You seem to be the one that's so intrested about the Cowboys. You've started 8 different threads alone about Dallas. I only talk about Dallas everytime someone like you starts a thread concerning them. What do you expect me to do, ignore your "jerry jones swamp land" thread, or ignore your "Parcells 3-4 defense" thread.
The General NFL Disscussion board and Houston Sports Scene boards are great, I love posting in them, but when someone starts a Cowboy thread I'll gladly post about the Cowboys in them. They're my team. I'm also good friends with one of this board's mods, Fiddy, which is an added bonus.
I respect the Texans organization greatly and hope for the best with them. Alot of the guys who post here are class acts even though they dislike the Cowboys, like Vinny, Fiddy, LonghornBabe, LMBH, just to name a few. There are also excellent Cowboy fans like WWJD, Huge, and DFAN. And no, I'm not banned at any other board, I'm actually planned to be the assistant admin to a future Houston based sports website Fiddy is currently developing.


Thank you for the nice compliment.

For the record I occasionally post at 2 Cowboy boards although my posting time has decreased. I can't get much into preseason football talk and I'm not into smack at all. Everybody here knows I like the Texans and hope they achieve everything they set out to do. I just happen to like the Cowboys too and have for decades.

I'll have to see Bledsoe in action before I pass judgement on him. I was throughly disgusted with Vinny last year although I'll be the first to admit it wasn't entirely his fault. He did the best he could I know but the Cowboys HAVE to get the young QB to lead this team forward. These older guys I don't think will do the job. And I heard rumblings on the radio of them being interested in Phillip Rivers but haven't read a thing on it anywhere else so that must not be true.

nunusguy
08-13-2005, 11:04 PM
I'm actually planned to be the assistant admin to a future Houston based sports website Fiddy is currently developing.
I don't have any real interest in the Cowboys' success (or failure for that matter), but I am interested in the team indirectly because I've followed Parsell's career over the years, though I don't condone his manipulation of that team for his own short-term, selfish goals at the expense of the teams longer term maturation. But hey, like I said earlier, its not a team where I have any sentiments and apparently even the owner himself isn't concerned.
And as far as you personally be associated with any Houston based sports endeavor, maybe you should first develope some allegiance to Houston based sports teams.

WWJD
08-13-2005, 11:27 PM
You really don't know much about Jerry Jones if you think he has no interest in the Cowboys....if anything he interferes too much for the "football" guys involved with the Cowboys.....he's criticized endlessly and has been for years for being a meddler. So if anything he cares too much to the casual fan. I've learned to deal with him; he said from day one he was going to be involved in the day to day business and he has been. He's much more involved than probably any other owner in the NFL. To say he's not concerned I guess is your opinion but to me there probably is next to nothing that goes on that Jerry doesn't know about or have his hand in.


As for Coach Parcells he was hired to do a job and my guess is he's doing what he feels is right....I've never felt he has anything but the team's interest at heart. He's very much a coach that believes in the older player. Whether that's right or wrong I guess everybody has an opinion.

StarStruck
08-14-2005, 01:24 AM
Alot of the guys who post here are class acts even though they dislike the Cowboys, like Vinny, Fiddy, LonghornBabe, LMBH, just to name a few. There are also excellent Cowboy fans like WWJD, Huge, and DFAN.

What? :confused: :crying: I never thought I would be misunderstood.

HowBoutThemCowboys!
08-14-2005, 01:45 PM
I don't have any real interest in the Cowboys' success (or failure for that matter), but I am interested in the team indirectly because I've followed Parsell's career over the years, though I don't condone his manipulation of that team for his own short-term, selfish goals at the expense of the teams longer term maturation. But hey, like I said earlier, its not a team where I have any sentiments and apparently even the owner himself isn't concerned.


Ok, if you care about our coach so much, why do you have to start a thread about Jerry Jones? Why do you make 9 threads about the Cowboys, with most of them not including Parcells?

Whether you like him or not, Jerry Jones is one of the most dedicated owners in the NFL. Notice how he's always on the sideline with the Cowboys watching the game, while all the other owners sit in their luxury suites like rich snobs?

And as far as you personally be associated with any Houston based sports endeavor, maybe you should first develope some allegiance to Houston based sports teams.

Why don't you just PM Fiddy and ask him yourself..

Oh and BTW, since your so intrested in Parcells, you might want to know it's spelled Parcells, not Parsells.

What? :confused: :crying: I never thought I would be misunderstood.

Ahhhhhhhhhhh, I'm so confused..

beerlover
08-14-2005, 02:09 PM
I feel the intra-state rivalry between the Texans & the Cowboys is a good thing, it generates interest hence dollars that otherwise would not be there. When it comes to various match-ups where its TEXAS against everyone else I'm going to support both Texas teams to not do so is un- :patriot texanpride

I enjoy the fact we have their most intelligent, informed posters right here @ Houstontexans.com that way we get enough information to follow the Cowboys whithout visiting their board and also generate a friendly rivalry, can't we all just get along :fans:

HowBoutThemCowboys!
08-14-2005, 05:24 PM
I feel the intra-state rivalry between the Texans & the Cowboys is a good thing, it generates interest hence dollars that otherwise would not be there. When it comes to various match-ups where its TEXAS against everyone else I'm going to support both Texas teams to not do so is un- :patriot texanpride

I enjoy the fact we have their most intelligent, informed posters right here @ Houstontexans.com that way we get enough information to follow the Cowboys whithout visiting their board and also generate a friendly rivalry, can't we all just get along :fans:


Thanks for the kind words man, I really appreciate it. I too, enjoy posting with you and everyone else here. It's a great atmosphere.

nunusguy
08-14-2005, 08:41 PM
since your so intrested in Parcells.
When I was 18 and playing ball @ Wichita State U. in 1961, me and the rest of the freshman RBs had to butt heads with varsity couple times a week. We'd
scrimmage them to help prepare them for their upcoming game and maybe run
1-on-1 drills against the DL & LBs. Back then the fore-arm shiver and open hand slap to the helmet were legal, and one of the guys who liked to use those techniques was this big, burly LB from New Jersey who was a real mean
SOB. Anyway, my brief career @ WSU was over at the end of the first semester and I figured I'd never seen any of those guys again. And then > 20
yrs later I was watching an NFL game on TV and the Giants were playing and I recognized the young HC they - not his name but never forget a face. Called
the newspaper (pre internet days), to see where he played college ball: small
world, so I started to follow Parcells movements in the NFL.
Did not realize I started that many threads about Dallas, but would guess
many are kinda about the city and them losing the franchise to FtWorth/Arlington. Re this thread - its is about Jones & Cass (Texans).
Parcells decision to convert to 3-4 and players hes picking upp to staff
that D - very intereting and relavant since the Texans are in competition
for some of the same people,e.g, TJ vs. Spears in the draft.
I also find the DeMarcus Ware pick very intrigueing and a tremendous gamble,
but one of Parcells trademarks is that he is a gambler. Actually the whole
conversion to the 3-4 in Parcells 3rd year is surprising - but fun to watch.

HowBoutThemCowboys!
08-14-2005, 09:36 PM
Woah that's freakin tight you played with Bill.

Do you have a link about this swamp land deal with Casserly and Jones? I wouldn't say we "lost" our franchise to Arlington, the whole organization wanted a new stadium there.

WWJD
08-14-2005, 09:41 PM
I think when you read everything and study it Jerry made the best business decision for the Cowboys building the new stadium in Arlington and that's what NFL football is....a business.

I think he paid under $200 million for the team and it's now worth close to a billion. So business stupid he isn't.....

The Cowboys haven't played in Dallas for decades. Moving from Irving to Arlington is nothing. But certainly the city of Dallas and their governing leaders dropped the ball because Jerry wanted to move the team to the city limits of Dallas and they said no.

nunusguy
08-15-2005, 08:19 AM
The Cowboys haven't played in Dallas for decades. Moving from Irving to Arlington is nothing. But certainly the city of Dallas and their governing leaders dropped the ball because Jerry wanted to move the team to the city limits of Dallas and they said no.
Moving the team from Irving to Arlington is very, very significant because the latter is part of the Ft Worth metro area whereas Irving is part of Dallas metro
and as you may know maybe the most prominant symbol of N.Texas is
that star on the Cowboys helmet and its a huge achievment to have them
move to your town.
They can talk all they want to about the Dallas/Ft Worth metroplex, but
knowledgable people know that the reality is there is a fierce rivalvry between Ft Worth & Dallas and its an "every man for himself" mentality up in N.Texas and its one of the most potent intrastate rivalries between any 2 cities. Maybe you live in Houston, well in Houston metro
the only city over 100 K (besides Houston of course), is Pasadena with
about 140K. Ft Worth on the other hand is > 600K, its a big city and big
threat to the Dallas dominance in N.Texas. Having the Cowboys move to
their neighborhood is a huge coup and a devastating loss for Dallas.
Ever heard of the Wright Amendment ? Theses 2 cities hate each other.

WWJD
08-15-2005, 09:28 AM
I'm going to put this back and forth into the category of "can't win" and leave this "Jerry doesn't care" and "Dallas and Ft. Worth hate each other" argument to others that obviously have a different opinion than I do.

I lived there for a long time, my brother still lives in Ft. Worth and I never saw anything like what you speak of...hate...nope...Jerry not caring...nope.

HowBoutThemCowboys!
08-15-2005, 10:43 AM
that star on the Cowboys helmet and its a huge achievment to have them
move to your town.


I thought we weren't a "half decent" organization?..



but knowledgable people know that the reality is there is a fierce rivalvry between Ft Worth & Dallas and its an "every man for himself" mentality up in N.Texas

What are you talking about?.... The Texas Rangers play in Arlington and Dallas loves them.. I'm sorry there's no "every man for himself" hospitatlity in Dallas/Forth Worth. That's the funniest thing I've heard all morning. Thanks for the laugh.


BTW, can I get a link to a swamp land article with Casserly and Jones? You have yet to give me one.

nunusguy
08-15-2005, 01:51 PM
I lived there for a long time, my brother still lives in Ft. Worth and I never saw anything like what you speak of...hate...nope...Jerry not caring...nope.
No no, I'm not talking about individuals, ordinary citizens hating each other -
like some guy in FTW hating another person who happens to live in Dallas,
I'm talking about the competition, the battle between commercial interests.
What's good for Dallas is not necessarily good for Ft Worth and vise versa.
Cities fight mightily for Fortune 500 headquarters and that fight goes on all
the time right here in Texas between Houston, Ft Worth, Dallas, & SA. What's more important than a F500 company moving its HDQ to a city is a
city attracting a major league franchise, and here in Texas that is especially true for football. Can you just imagine what it would be worth to the city of
SA to get the Saints to move to their town ?
Now I may not have any personal sentiments about the Cowboys but that
doesn't mean I don't realize they are, amoung sports teams, the most valuable economic entity this state has ever had. And in just a few years, that most valuable of sports franchises will begin playing their NFL regular season home games on the Ft Worth side of N.Texas. Oh well, but maybe they'll play a preseason game or 2 over on the Dallas side of the tracks.

Huge
08-15-2005, 02:32 PM
I think if the Giants and Jets can get by with playing in another state, the Cowboys should be able to handle playing 15 miles (approximately of course) further west.

WWJD
08-15-2005, 03:16 PM
No no, I'm not talking about individuals, ordinary citizens hating each other -
like some guy in FTW hating another person who happens to live in Dallas,
I'm talking about the competition, the battle between commercial interests.
What's good for Dallas is not necessarily good for Ft Worth and vise versa.
Cities fight mightily for Fortune 500 headquarters and that fight goes on all
the time right here in Texas between Houston, Ft Worth, Dallas, & SA. What's more important than a F500 company moving its HDQ to a city is a
city attracting a major league franchise, and here in Texas that is especially true for football. Can you just imagine what it would be worth to the city of
SA to get the Saints to move to their town ?
Now I may not have any personal sentiments about the Cowboys but that
doesn't mean I don't realize they are, amoung sports teams, the most valuable economic entity this state has ever had. And in just a few years, that most valuable of sports franchises will begin playing their NFL regular season home games on the Ft Worth side of N.Texas. Oh well, but maybe they'll play a preseason game or 2 over on the Dallas side of the tracks.


It's really not the major big deal you've made it. I guess your dig is at the city of Dallas. A city that hasn't had "their" team playing in the city limits since the 70's. So what's going to change? Answer....nothing.