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TexasAggie
07-02-2004, 10:37 AM
Guys the houstontexans.com website is saying they just signed FA Spears OT played for Giants and a WR from the Jets??

But my question is 'WHY'? The young guys that have gone through minicamps must not have impressed much if they are still adding what looks like at best is training camp fodder. Where am I missing the boat?

Also this year the Texans only get to take 80 men(I think) to training camp plus the NFLE exemptions = 88 men. Texans currently have 94 men not counting TCharles WR NFLE IR or T Stevens RB NFLE IR on their roster. To me that means they have to release 6 more before TC begins.

current roster
12 WR
18 OL 7 OT 6 OG 5 C (INCL PITTMAN)
5 TE
8 RB/FB 4 RB 4 FB
4 QB

11 DL 4 DT 7 DE
15 LB 8 OLB 7 ILB
10 CB
7 S

2 P
2 K

Porky
07-02-2004, 11:04 AM
As far the WR, they always bring in guys around camp that are released. I'm sure he is a long shot, but the scouts must see something in him, and want to give him an opportunity. Competition is good, not bad.

As far as the Tackle, I saw that in the paper. My take is that this means that they are more convinced that Wand will be the starting LT. If Wand starts, they don't really have an experienced true tackle as a backup. Not sure he is a lock to make the roster, but they might consider using him as a backup at RT and LT, instead of trying to swing Pitts and Weigert from the guard spots out to tackle. He's also a very experienced vet, and may be able to share some tricks of the trade with the young guys. I see it as a major plus.

Of course, I may not count since I'm not Vinny, AJ, or CND :popcorn:

Vinny
07-02-2004, 01:56 PM
I don't think it "means" anything really (not in July). Waiver pick ups and such are guys you look at for reserve spots and if a guy can play, he can play, and the OT is a vet so that is a good thing. You bring in guys who you think can play and let the competition sort itself out. Competition is a good thing.

Ibar_Harry
07-02-2004, 08:36 PM
I have the same question and nobody answered his question. If there is a limit to the number of people that can go into the training camp why are they picking up all of these people and how do they evaluate them before the training camp? He's asking, "don't they have to let people go before the training camp? Have they decided not to keep some of the rookies without even getting a shot at the training camp?

Vinny
07-03-2004, 11:29 AM
There is plenty of room for the rookies. I'll find the camp number unless someone beats me to it but I think its around 80. This is the time (off-season) when you try to find solid players who you hope can either make the team or at least give your reserves some solid competition to get better. The Texans have a grade on all the players on the NFL. It's not like they are an unknown.

By Len Pasquarelli
ESPN.com (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=pasquarelli_len&id=1833379) Houston Texans: Still trying to add offensive line depth before the start of training camp, the Texans on Friday signed veteran free agent Marcus Spears, who had been released by the Kansas City Chiefs on June 16.

A versatile 10-year veteran, Spears figures to be a valuable backup for the Texans at both tackle and guard. He becomes the second veteran tackle added by Texas this offseason, with the club having acquired former Miami Dolphins starter Todd Wade earlier in the signing period. Wade is slated to be the starting right tackle.

Spears, 32, had been with the Chiefs since 1997 and started at guard and tackle at various times in his tenure with the club.

"By letting him go now," said coach Vermeil upon Spears' release, "it enhances his opportunities to get a job, and he will get a job."

Indeed, there were several teams interested in adding Spears, who is also regarded as a player of high character. Details of his contract with the Texans were unavailable, but the deal is expected to be a modest one.

In releasing Spears, Vermeil and general manager Carl Peterson cited the improvement of young players for creating a tight "numbers game" on what traditionally has been one of the league's top offensive line units. The Chiefs added offensive linemen Brett Williams and Jordan Black in the 2003 draft and Kevin Sampson in this year's lottery.

Ibar_Harry
07-03-2004, 05:02 PM
I just went to players and I counted 95 people on the Texans list. Because of eye sight I might have miscounted by one or two, but it seems to me there are more people on the list than you think. Again, what does that mean? Must we get rid of people before the start to TC?

ledzeppelin229
07-03-2004, 05:10 PM
Is this guy sort of Greg Randall-ish as far as playing ability? If he is then thats great news (as a backup)

Vinny
07-03-2004, 05:47 PM
He's built like Chester Pitts and is likely the kind of guy who can displace Washington in our rotation since he can play Tackle/Guard and Washington is a Center/Guard. We have ex-Centers on our roster with Brown and Weary and I think they are ready to be front line subs in the NFL. I could see Sears displacing Washington when it is all said and done.

Just an early guess.

ledzeppelin229
07-03-2004, 07:34 PM
So if Wand is ready to go against San Diego as a starter, could McKinney be seen as our "weak link" among starters? That would be an amazing 2 year turnaround considering he was likely our best lineman in 2002.

In the new zone blocking scheme, will this help Mckinney against the bigger, stronger DTs like Stroud and Henderson? I just remember last year people saying how he was being manhandled by them because he wasnt strong enough.

Also, how much of a transition will it be in game situations? Things look a lot better against teammates so will the line be a little clumsy for a few games as the players gel against new opponents?

This season has me very excited about what the offense can do if it stays healthy. I hope Carr can live up to expectations and prove doubters wrong.

Fiddy
07-03-2004, 07:45 PM
I just went to players and I counted 95 people on the Texans list. Because of eye sight I might have miscounted by one or two, but it seems to me there are more people on the list than you think. Again, what does that mean? Must we get rid of people before the start to TC?I think that there are dates during and after camp and preseason to get to the 53 man roster. It is something like one day in the middle or towards the end of camp and then one after the 2nd preseason game and then you have to get the 53 man roster a couple of days after the final preseason game.

I dont believe that there is limit on the # of people you can bring to camp, but coaches want to get a better look on players at positions they need depth and experience so they cut a couple of players before camp even starts.

Dont worry about it...

CloakNNNdagger
07-04-2004, 06:34 PM
Spears has been a bulwark of the dominant Chief's OL for years. He basically can play it all at the G and T positions. The Chiefs fans for the most part are lamenting his departure and also feel that he still has gas in the tank. He should be a solid OL backup.

El Tejano
07-05-2004, 09:17 AM
I think for the most part, you have to look at how many WR on our roster at this time that are just not going to make the team. There are really alot of WR fighting for that fourth spot so you may see the majority of them let go. The probably signed this WR just to look at him and I am sure he will be gone also, keep in mind there is probably one too many TEs and LBs on our team that we may see go.

Lucky
07-05-2004, 11:16 AM
I just went to players and I counted 95 people on the Texans list. Because of eye sight I might have miscounted by one or two, but it seems to me there are more people on the list than you think. Again, what does that mean? Must we get rid of people before the start to TC?
Good question. I couldn't find the info on NFL.com , but here is an old ESPN.com article (http://espn.go.com/nfl/columns/clayton_john/1399175.html) that verifies the training camp roster limit at 80.
"The roster limits cut down what you can do in camp, so you can't be as physical as you would like," Falcons coach Dan Reeves said. "You are worried to death you might get somebody hurt."

Coaches worry about the injuries. Because most teams stretch their salary caps to sign players, it's hard to replace those lost by injuries. Coaches worry about how to run practices when the roster limit is 80.

"With the Cowboys, we used to bring 140 to 160 players to camp," Reeves said. "You used camp to get in shape. Now, if a player comes to camp not in shape, he's probably so far behind he's not going to make the team. That changes the intensity of your practices."
I know that the NFL Europe players get roster exemptions, so that may explain why there are 10 or so more players over the roster limit. The remaining 5 or 6 guys over the limit I'm not so sure of. Maybe guys like Seth Payne and Ramon Walker aren't counted because they finished the season on the IR list? If I come across any additional info on this, I'll let you know

Ediddy73
07-05-2004, 12:51 PM
Spears link (http://www.theredzone.org/news/showarticle.asp?ArticleID=1271)
HOUSTON - The Houston Texans signed free agent offensive tackle Marcus Spears.

Spears (6-4, 320), an 11-year veteran, spent the past seven years in Kansas City. Spears played in 79 games, starting 18 as a Chief.

Spears was drafted by Chicago in the second-round from NW Louisiana St. in 1994. He played in nine games over three years for the Bears.


training camp body?

BornOrange
07-05-2004, 01:52 PM
Spears will be fighting with Garrick Jones for the ninth and final OL spot on the roster

Vinny
07-05-2004, 01:59 PM
Spears will be fighting with Garrick Jones for the ninth and final OL spot on the rosterActually I'm much more inclined to think that he is fighing for Todd Washington's Veteran reserve role on the team. A lot of people just pencil in Washington but I wasn't too impressed with him last season. We have other guys who can play Center in a reserve role (Brown and Weary were both College Centers), but Spears can play Guard and Tackle, something the lead-footed Washington cannot do.

El Tejano
07-05-2004, 03:06 PM
Really the bottom line to this acquisition is for us to look at the IR list over the last two years for our team and especially the injury list for our Oline in the first year when we spent some good money on very excellent OTs.

I am sure the Texans do not want to repeat that process this year during camp as this should be our best offensive year and as a team. So we see a guy on the waiver wire who is an above average to good OT and we sign him to strengthen our depth and to increase the level of competition. I think it was a good pick up.

BornOrange
07-05-2004, 03:19 PM
Actually I'm much more inclined to think that he is fighing for Todd Washington's Veteran reserve role on the team. A lot of people just pencil in Washington but I wasn't too impressed with him last season. We have other guys who can play Center in a reserve role (Brown and Weary were both College Centers), but Spears can play Guard and Tackle, something the lead-footed Washington cannot do.

I don't think Brown or Weary played very much at center in college, and they also haven't much center in the NFL. Have either of them snapped the ball once in a regular season NFL game? It will be interesting to see how many snaps Weary and Washington (and maybe Brown) get at center in training camp and the exhibition games. That should give us an indication of who is getting the most attention at backup center.

Vinny
07-05-2004, 03:30 PM
Weary played Center his entire Jr year at TN (I was living in Tennessee at that time) and if you look at most of the draft recaps he is listed as a Center. For instance at drafthistory.com he is listed as a C there too (for some reference). Weary also played some Defensive Tackle, but he was a Guard for the most part. Excellent athlete for a big man (wrestler).

Fiddy
07-05-2004, 03:31 PM
They have Weary listed as a Center in Madden, too.

BornOrange
07-05-2004, 03:45 PM
Weary played three halves at center for Tennessee in the 2000 season, his junior year. He was injured in the first half of his second game and missed the rest of the year.

Vinny
07-05-2004, 03:51 PM
That doesn't change the fact that he was the Center that year. He played all over the line if you want the truth...but he can clearly play center and that is the point of my assertion that we have guys who can play Center.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/sfc/sec/sfch11ra.htm

From our site...Recruited as guard, then moved to defensive tackle as a redshirt freshman, only to move back to guard the following year…played center as a junior and guard again as a senior…started every game at left guard in 2001…earned All-America honors his final season and was an All-Southeastern Conference first-team pick…graded a team-high 84.1 percent for blocking consistency…registered 112 blocks for an offense that generated 4,829 total yards…moved from center to guard, starting the final two games junior season in 2000…suffered ankle sprain in first half of Florida game…forced to sit out remainder of contest and remainder of season…underwent ankle surgery during the fall…started all 12 games at right tackle in 1999 with 71 knockdowns for an offense that averaged 406.2 yards per game…played in 10 games in 1998 as a reserve left defensive tackle…recorded eight tackles on the year…redshirted in 1997…majored in economics

BornOrange
07-05-2004, 03:54 PM
Don't get me wrong, I have thought for a while that Weary would be the center of the future, but I am just saying that at this time he hasn't had many snaps at center, especially in the NFL, and that Washington has a pretty good chance of making the roster because of his experience at center.

If Weary is primarily used as a center this preseason, we can start saying our goodbyes to Washington. If Weary doesn't get many snaps at center, Washington is going to be here and Garrick Jones will be fighting with Marcus Spears for the ninth lineman spot.

Vinny
07-05-2004, 04:15 PM
Thats cool, but imo I do not think that Garrick Jones nor Todd Washington will be on the final roster.

BornOrange
07-05-2004, 04:50 PM
Who do you think will be the ninth OL?

1. Wade
2. Wiegart
3. McKinney
4. Pitts
5. Wand
6. Brown
7. Weary
8. Spears
9. ?????

The Texans have carried nine offensive linemen both years as far as I can recall.

Vinny
07-05-2004, 05:11 PM
Fair question but I'm not sure. I just don't think we were happy with Jones or we would not have gone after Spears. I am not sure if Jones is physical enough to play inside in a pinch and has been cut by the Jags and the Chiefs both over the last couple of years.

TexasAggie
07-05-2004, 07:01 PM
I can't find the article now but I am sure that I read where the Texans were looking at carrying only 8 OLine this year. idonno:

That versatility at being able to play more than one spot was at a premium for the OLinemen. :hmmm:

Texansbacker
07-06-2004, 10:44 AM
I think that Todd Washington definitely makes the team as he is a solid center/guard back-up who played surprisingly well at times last year and is definitely not dominant but is a good back-up.

Fred Weary provides youth/potential as another cener/guard back-up.

Milford Brown is probably the best back-up guard and also provides youth and potential.

At the back-up spots for the tackle position, we have the newly added Spears along with our two starting guards able to move outside. IMO, that is why the Texans will keep mostly guards as back-ups (also better special teamers) and the nice mixture of veterans and youth.

I also noticed in the bio of Spears that he received high marks in the character department, which is pleasing, and I also like the fact that he has blocked for Priest Holmes for the last few years and perhaps he can give DD some insight or extra confidence. DD is built just like Priest and will come out even stronger this year behind our improved o-line.

IMO, this is how our opening day roster will read in regards to o-line.

Wade
Weigert
McKinney
Pitts
Wand
Brown
Weary
Spears
Washington