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View Full Version : AH! Why are we just sitting here??


gtexan02
07-27-2005, 06:19 PM
There are a lot of holes we still have to fill and we aren't filling them!
Examples:

We have no TE. Bubba Franks is a great, solid TE who is likely going to hold out. Why don't we make an offer?

We have no solid #2 receiver. Bradford is an underachiever, Gaffney and Mathis are both great #3s who have #2 potential (key word is potential). Why didn't we offer a trade for Gardner? I bet he went for a 4th or 5th round pick to Carolina. 3rd at the highest, and he would have been a HUGE addition. Why not make a move at Javon Walker. I know he's a #1 type, but the packers will get pissed off at him and maybe we could do something. Think of the difference it would make.

As I see it, there are some killer options still available, so why don't we make a huge boost to our offense instead of returning with the same, slightly above average unit we had last year. With a more consistent offense, think about how much better our defense would be!

RTP2110
07-27-2005, 09:02 PM
Who's to say that the Texans didn't pursue any of those players?

vtech9
07-27-2005, 09:24 PM
There are a lot of holes we still have to fill and we aren't filling them!
Examples:

We have no TE. Bubba Franks is a great, solid TE who is likely going to hold out. Why don't we make an offer?

We have no solid #2 receiver. Bradford is an underachiever, Gaffney and Mathis are both great #3s who have #2 potential (key word is potential). Why didn't we offer a trade for Gardner? I bet he went for a 4th or 5th round pick to Carolina. 3rd at the highest, and he would have been a HUGE addition. Why not make a move at Javon Walker. I know he's a #1 type, but the packers will get pissed off at him and maybe we could do something. Think of the difference it would make.

As I see it, there are some killer options still available, so why don't we make a huge boost to our offense instead of returning with the same, slightly above average unit we had last year. With a more consistent offense, think about how much better our defense would be!
Gardner?? He probably wouldn't have made it on our roster.

gtexan02
07-27-2005, 09:26 PM
If we did pursue them, we didn't pursue hard enough. Gardner would get cut? What are you talking about? He's better than bradford, thats for sure. I just wish we could have made 1 solid improvement to our offense.

texasguy346
07-27-2005, 09:34 PM
I wouldn't expect Walker or Franks to go to any other team. GB gave into a holdouts demands with Mike, but I doubt they have any interest in being held hostage by a couple of their players. Franks has mentioned he has no intention of leaving GB. Not sure what kind of shot we have at a player who has no intention of leaving. You really think Walker's going to want to go to a team where he'll have to be the #2 WR? He knows he's the #1 WR in Green Bay, and he'll get his money one way or another. As for Gardner he's not very consistent. I wish him luck in Carolina.

Wolf
07-27-2005, 09:38 PM
Verba and Pace are ones we know we went after (there was another lineman but I can't remember who) ...what we should have learned is the Texans aren't going to overpay for some of these guys just to plug a hole.

vtech9
07-27-2005, 09:46 PM
If we did pursue them, we didn't pursue hard enough. Gardner would get cut? What are you talking about? He's better than bradford, thats for sure. I just wish we could have made 1 solid improvement to our offense.
IMHO, Gardner sucks...straight up, point blank, end of discussion.

TexasAggie
07-27-2005, 09:55 PM
Lj Shelton

WILLIEG
07-27-2005, 10:06 PM
I think the O-line will better than last year, however, we do need to replace the center and rightguard. And with the additional speed that Mathis brings to the team we shold see a more productive #2 reciever position if Mathis fills the #3 position. The TE situation isn't as impotant a role in this years offensive sceme to fill as for a #4 reciever rather his ability to carry out a block for DD is more crucial than catching a pass.

Blake
07-28-2005, 10:44 AM
:deadhorse :deadhorse :deadhorse :deadhorse

El Tejano
07-28-2005, 02:53 PM
What we are talking about here is an offensive unit that has had at least 3 years to work together, and in those 3 years did some very nice things. Year four is the year we find out exactly what kind of depth we really do have after the depth has competed for a job this year instead of get it handed to them on a silver platter. I believe after this year, we start looking for the real FAs.

titan hater
07-28-2005, 03:48 PM
What we are talking about here is an offensive unit that has had at least 3 years to work together, and in those 3 years did some very nice things. Year four is the year we find out exactly what kind of depth we really do have after the depth has competed for a job this year instead of get it handed to them on a silver platter. I believe after this year, we start looking for the real FAs.

Don't discount Greenwood...He is small but very fast!! I look for him to be just as good as JS against the run. The big improvement will be our pass D. He will be able to stop any RB coming out of the backfield for a screen or the dump pass.

With that in mind, I completely agree with your take...Next year we can look at OT, OC, and WR to help out DC...

Double Barrel
07-28-2005, 03:52 PM
I'm really more concerned with depth at our OL than anything. We have got to see some consistancy with protecting DC. There is no other matter more urgent that is directly related to our team's success.

tsip
07-28-2005, 04:19 PM
"Next year "

...enough said, that says it all!

gtexan02
07-28-2005, 05:44 PM
Isn't anyone else getting tired of hearing "next year" If we had made some gutsy moves (Im not saying follow in a Carolina expansion pattern) we could be an EASY playoff team with the young guys we have now. I don't want us to mortgage our future, but I don't want to sit around and hope that "another year together will certainly let them gel" No offense to our OL and TE, but to me there was not any significant improvement between game 1 last season and game 16. Why is it that suddently moving from last year to this year will bring loads of improvement? I love optimistic people, but thinking that we will be significantly different on offense this year is ludicrous, and being in the middle of the pack won't cut it in my opinion.

Vinny
07-28-2005, 05:51 PM
Last I heard the Texans haven't given up on 'this' year. What gutsy moves do you refer to? The Texans went from worst offense in the NFL to middle of the pack last year. No improvement to you....improvement to me though.

infantrycak
07-28-2005, 05:55 PM
Isn't anyone else getting tired of hearing "next year" If we had made some gutsy moves (Im not saying follow in a Carolina expansion pattern) we could be an EASY playoff team with the young guys we have now. I don't want us to mortgage our future, but I don't want to sit around and hope that "another year together will certainly let them gel" No offense to our OL and TE, but to me there was not any significant improvement between game 1 last season and game 16. Why is it that suddently moving from last year to this year will bring loads of improvement? I love optimistic people, but thinking that we will be significantly different on offense this year is ludicrous, and being in the middle of the pack won't cut it in my opinion.

Well, and gee I love pessimistic people (well not actually) but what exact moves at what exact costs should the Texans have made? Would a $2 mil offer to Verba have been good enough even if he hadn't accepted?--how about $3 mil? Was only 2 1st's to St. Louis for Pace good enough? Would drafting a TE in the 3rd instead of Morency have taken them to the play-offs this year? What are the specific moves, not just improve the OL, improve the TE, which would of made you happy? Heck I can say we would be a play-off team if only we had improved the QB position by getting Peyton this year. It isn't realistic, but even that is more specific than most of the criticism floating around here.

tsip
07-28-2005, 06:10 PM
Here's hoping we start off fast and show 'gobs' of improvement because
it's going to be an awfully quiet board around here if we don't...at least
from some people!

tsip
07-28-2005, 06:15 PM
Well, and gee I love pessimistic people (well not actually) but what exact moves at what exact costs should the Texans have made? Would a $2 mil offer to Verba have been good enough even if he hadn't accepted?--how about $3 mil? Was only 2 1st's to St. Louis for Pace good enough? Would drafting a TE in the 3rd instead of Morency have taken them to the play-offs this year? What are the specific moves, not just improve the OL, improve the TE, which would of made you happy? Heck I can say we would be a play-off team if only we had improved the QB position by getting Peyton this year. It isn't realistic, but even that is more specific than most of the criticism floating around here.

OK. we've heard from the doom sayers about this year--what exact moves
have we made that lead you to believe we will be successful this year?
And, please remember to be specific...thanks.

Hervoyel
07-28-2005, 06:30 PM
I simply have little or no common ground with anyone who thinks that the Texans haven't made "big moves" during this off season. Those same people probably feel like the Texans haven't made much progress in the last three years too. I also disagree with that.

Everyone who's not happy with the Texans at this point in time needs to meet at a location to be named later so I can sit them down and show them the 2002 Texans game against the Cincinnati Bengals.

All will be made clear then.

infantrycak
07-28-2005, 06:33 PM
OK. we've heard from the doom sayers about this year--what exact moves
have we made that lead you to believe we will be successful this year?
And, please remember to be specific...thanks.

Sorry, Buzzzzzznnnnnn (however you make a buzzer sound), but we haven't heard enough from the doomsayers--we haven't heard any specifics. Improve the OL is not a specific.

The very phrasing of your question shows you don't understand what teams deal with--the question isn't "what exact moves have we made that lead you to believe we will be successful this year"--if you are attempting to cogently criticize a team (as the above post was) it is what moves were available this year, that we did not take advantage of, at a financially responsible (i.e. salary cap wise) cost which would have made us more successful? Got an answer for that one anyone---crickets...crickets...?

tsip
07-28-2005, 06:37 PM
...if beating 'around the bush' meant $ in your pocket (uh huh), some of
you would be rich!!!!!

Wolf
07-28-2005, 06:40 PM
what I wonder is everyone thinks a team needs to make a big splash with a big name.. what gets overlooked is does that player fit the teams philosophy.

NE does it with solid drafting..

NFL

Redskins made splash after splash..and where has that gotten them? on paper they looked good
MLB
Yankees.. they spent and spent..and when was the last year they won the world series? (yankees with 200 million payroll.. astros what about 80 million? we have 2 more losses then them)

NBA.
Rockets Hakeem,Barkely,Pippen ..no title
Lakers Payton,Malone,O'neil,Kobe...no title


Chemistry goes along way when making a splash IMO

ledzeppelin229
07-28-2005, 06:43 PM
Personally, new starters at three Linebacker positions, a new corner, and a significant player on the DL is enough change for me right now. The Redskins made a bunch of moves last season that were highly regarded and look where it got them. Right now all the "experts" are touting the Cowboys as having the best offseason and the Texans as having one of the worst, but the standard for "NFL expert" isn't very high these days. I trust some of the guys opinions on this board moreso than Dr. Z or Peter King or their equivalents. I think the defense might start off slow, with some mistakes, gambles, overpursuit etc but will settle in as a unit with good speed all around and some pretty fearless players when it comes to making the hit at nearly every section of the defense.

Bubbajwp
07-28-2005, 06:49 PM
I guess some of you forgot that we have four new starters on defense.
We also have Pbuch, J Mathis, and R Swinton returning kicks this year and we are running shorter routes on offense this year. If you dont consider these major changes than i dont know what is

gtexan02
07-28-2005, 09:12 PM
After re-reading all of this, I realize that a lot of what I said seems very pessissistic, and that is unfair to the Texans. They have improved. I guess what frustrates me is that when I look at the team last year, I see potential for some super elite players if they had slightly better surroundings. Carr and Davis with a better O-line, Johnson with a better no. 2 receiver and a decent TE. My argument doesnt make any sense, because I don't know how much could have actually happened, but all Im saying is that the offense last year was good, but not elite. It has the potential to be elite, but is missing a few pieces, and we still dont have those.

As for d, I think the changes we made could go either way. I love Buchannon, but I also loved glenn and sharper. I even liked foreman a lot. What I saw of Peek, however, was great, and so who knows what will happen.

infantrycak
07-28-2005, 09:48 PM
After re-reading all of this, I realize that a lot of what I said seems very pessissistic, and that is unfair to the Texans. They have improved. I guess what frustrates me is that when I look at the team last year, I see potential for some super elite players if they had slightly better surroundings. Carr and Davis with a better O-line, Johnson with a better no. 2 receiver and a decent TE. My argument doesnt make any sense, because I don't know how much could have actually happened, but all Im saying is that the offense last year was good, but not elite. It has the potential to be elite, but is missing a few pieces, and we still dont have those.

As for d, I think the changes we made could go either way. I love Buchannon, but I also loved glenn and sharper. I even liked foreman a lot. What I saw of Peek, however, was great, and so who knows what will happen.

Now we are in complete agreement. There are many players on the team who seem like they could thrive IF other things went well. AJ in Indy, DD in KC or Denver, Sharper in Pittsburgh, etc. Foley in San Diego...well let's let that one go. It is very frustrating to see pieces not seem to reach their full potential, but it is still building a team that is the bottom line.

tsip
07-29-2005, 09:28 AM
I simply have little or no common ground with anyone who thinks that the Texans haven't made "big moves" during this off season. Those same people probably feel like the Texans haven't made much progress in the last three years too. I also disagree with that.

Everyone who's not happy with the Texans at this point in time needs to meet at a location to be named later so I can sit them down and show them the 2002 Texans game against the Cincinnati Bengals.

All will be made clear then.

...just don't show the 2004 Cleveland Browns game...

Vambo, the Marble Eye
07-29-2005, 09:28 AM
OK. we've heard from the doom sayers about this year--what exact moves
have we made that lead you to believe we will be successful this year?
And, please remember to be specific...thanks.

For one thing, hopefully all the crybabies have tickets to the game this year...and they can be as verbal in voice as on this board.

You tell me, how many delay of game penalties were "induced" due to Texan crowd noise in 2004 versus 2003? I call that a specific improvement... and judging from the board the crop of naysayers on these threads so far... 2005 looks pretty promising! (Sorry to be so sarcastic, but I just want the season to start and the time for conjecture to over.)
:)

BigDTexansFan
07-29-2005, 09:55 AM
I am willing to let this year be a wash, if we can build into a contender year in and year out and go to big dance and WIN. I think some want to win and win now who cares about 2006. I prefer 2006-2007-2008-2009-2010 with winning seasons playoff appearances and playoff wins :highfive:

Exascor
07-29-2005, 03:00 PM
I'm holding off on judgement on the changes we've made until at least mid-season. My first reaction is that we took a step back. That is honestly an uninformed reaction though. I know little of Greenwood and know only that Buchanon is a self-proclaimed playmaker. Sharper, Foreman and Glenn were all veterans with a known set of skills. Sharper and Foreman were a liability in pass defense but were good tacklers. Glenn never seemed impressive to me last season but that could be because offenses were trying to take advantage of Dunta.

On paper it seems we did get faster on D but does that automatically translate to improvement?

Special teams definately SEEMS to be improved because Moses was so slow kickers ran him down from behind. But...if we don't have players executing the blocking (or have faulty schemes) then we'll still be average at best.

The thing I'm counting on is my X-factor: How many 2-4 year players do we have that will improve to above average play?

-If Carr, Davis, Johnson, Gaffney, Pitts and Wand all improve we will be a good offense.
-How about Robinson, Babin, Peek and Earl? Will they begin to play at a superior level?
-Do we have anyone on the roster that we're not expecting to play a lot that may become that sleeper (Charlie Anderson, Shantee Orr, Faggins) that launches us into the next level?

Time will be the judge. Patience is the key to building dynasties. That's my hope that one day we'll read about the Texans being the team that won 4 of 6 Superbowls or won 3 straight. Year 5 and no playoffs...

Hervoyel
07-29-2005, 04:12 PM
...just don't show the 2004 Cleveland Browns game...


Trust me, as bad as that game seemed to all of us at the time there's no comparison. The progress is extraordinary really. It's more than just 3 more wins in 2004 than in 2002.

I think many of us have short memories and have forgotten where we started.

tsip
07-29-2005, 04:53 PM
Trust me, as bad as that game seemed to all of us at the time there's no comparison. The progress is extraordinary really. It's more than just 3 more wins in 2004 than in 2002.

I think many of us have short memories and have forgotten where we started.

That goes for both sides as far as forgetting--last year we were 0-7
against play off teams, 4 of our 7 victories were against the Titans
and the Jags, who-by the way-were the only team with a winning record
that we beat. This is going to be a telling year for the Texans in that
there is no doubt we will know once and for all how far we've come. Our
first 2 games against the Bills and Steelers will let us know--real quick--
where the Texans are headed in 2005. I've said it before and I'll say it
again, I believe effective coaching is the key to winning in the NFL. Those
coaches that have their players ready to play with effective/innovative
game plans are going to excel and have the best chance of winning games
week in and week out.

Big B Texan Fan
07-29-2005, 11:17 PM
Sometimes not making a splash in free agency is the best thing to do. We are lucky that we have a GM that doesn't treat our team like a Madden season.

gtexan02
07-30-2005, 10:46 AM
I hear a lot of people talking about defensive changes, but what I'm talking about is OFFENSE. Heres what I hear a lot of in regards to offense:

Another year will let the offense gel together and we will make some big improvements.

My argument is that in the first games of the season before the bye week,we scored on average about 23 points per game.

Over the rest of the season, we scored 17 points per game.

Similarly, our OL gave up 2.6 sacks per game in the games before the bye week.

Over the rest of the season, we gave up 3.3 sacks per game (including 6 to the Browns!!)

So what does this tell me? Our offense actually made negative progress over the course of the season as they had time to "gel" with each other. We scored an average of 1 td less per game and gave up almost a full extra sack per game, and this was after playing together for a while. So with this in mind, how can anyone say that another year of offseason is all we need to bolster our offense?

Vinny
07-30-2005, 10:49 AM
Blame that on being in a great league and the use of game film identifying an appropriate manner to defense a young team. Carr and the offense had trouble with Cover2 and teams used that more than blitz packages w/man coverage as the year wore on. Like most young teams the Texans were wildly inconsistent (the Texans still had several starters who has 3 years experience or less). Keep in mind the offense was the league worst the year before. Last year the team jumped from 31st in the league in total offense to 19th in the league. The Texans had 300 first downs (63 more than a season ago), the number of three-and-out series decreased by 27. Also, the Texans’ offense finished in the top half of the league last season in the number of five-minute drives. If we ended up with one of the worst statistical offenses in the NFL again, I’d be pessimistic…but we didn’t. We made progress if you care to dig deep enough to find it.

tsip
07-30-2005, 12:20 PM
:) Ok, progress. The point several posters have tried to make about last
year is that there was little progress (rushing only) made in the last half
of the season. Our offense was no where to be found in terms of passing
or scoring points. What happened and why were we unable to do anything
about it?

The NFL has never been an 'old' player employer, as the avg tenure is
not that great and I already posted stats about the avg # yrs experience
of teams in our division. I am really looking forward to this season because
it will be nice to see the Texans compete on an 'even' playing field with
everyone else. Here's hoping that another years experience will make all
the difference in the world!! :highfive:

dalemurphy
07-30-2005, 12:49 PM
:) Ok, progress. The point several posters have tried to make about last
year is that there was little progress (rushing only) made in the last half
of the season. Our offense was no where to be found in terms of passing
or scoring points. What happened and why were we unable to do anything
about it?

The NFL has never been an 'old' player employer, as the avg tenure is
not that great and I already posted stats about the avg # yrs experience
of teams in our division. I am really looking forward to this season because
it will be nice to see the Texans compete on an 'even' playing field with
everyone else. Here's hoping that another years experience will make all
the difference in the world!! :highfive:

There was a lot of progress in the passing game. However, they aren't as separate as you make them out to be... That's the point vinny was making. When teams were blitzing and playing 8 in the box, Carr was a top 5 rated QB. Around the Denver or GB game, teams figured out that they could play us almost strictly 7 in the box and play cover 2, while rushing 4 linemen. When that happened, Davis had more success. However, it bogged down our passing game considerably and we had difficulty scoring TDs. Last year, teams began respecting and gameplanning against our vertical passing game. That's what led to DD's statistically great 2nd half and also what led to Carr's/AJ's struggles.

tsip
07-30-2005, 02:28 PM
There was a lot of progress in the passing game. However, they aren't as separate as you make them out to be... That's the point vinny was making. When teams were blitzing and playing 8 in the box, Carr was a top 5 rated QB. Around the Denver or GB game, teams figured out that they could play us almost strictly 7 in the box and play cover 2, while rushing 4 linemen. When that happened, Davis had more success. However, it bogged down our passing game considerably and we had difficulty scoring TDs. Last year, teams began respecting and gameplanning against our vertical passing game. That's what led to DD's statistically great 2nd half and also what led to Carr's/AJ's struggles.

I have a different point of view/concern here--everyone knows what other
teams did to stop our passing success of the first few games, the cover 2.
So, knowing this, what did the coaching staff come up with to counter the
cover 2? Anything? Every opponent is going to have a defensive game
plan to stop our offense, a game plan that may be based on another teams
success against us or something new. This is a given. What's not a given is
whether or not we can counter that defensive game plan--we can add this
player or that player or more speed or more of this or that---that's fine---
but we better start coming up with 'something' that puts/keeps us in the
game. Nine games is a long time to go with no way to combat a defensive
scheme (cover 2), and there is always going to be another and another
scheme. The easy part is identifying the scheme--hard part is doing some-
thing about it to score the points needed to win...

Ibar_Harry
07-30-2005, 02:57 PM
In effect you are eluding to what appears to be a Caper's inability to adapt on the fly. I have always felt that he can't adjust if his game plan falls apart for whatever reason. I know I'm being negative, but I believe that is a weakness of his. His maticulos note taking while the game is progressing and his attention to detail is very suggestive of that kind of person. He's the type of person who has to sit back and analyze before making change. Michael Jordan was what he was because he could mentally adjust no matter what was happening. That's a god given ability. I have always felt Capers was and is a great assistant coach, but not a head coach. I just don't believe he has the talent to be a great field leader. Again, that has nothing to do with him as a person, its just he doesn't have certain god given skills.

TexansTrueFan
07-30-2005, 05:34 PM
well lets just see what this 4th round WR we got can do, speed will kill secondaries !

Wolf
07-30-2005, 05:49 PM
I have a different point of view/concern here--everyone knows what other
teams did to stop our passing success of the first few games, the cover 2.
So, knowing this, what did the coaching staff come up with to counter the
cover 2? Anything? Every opponent is going to have a defensive game
plan to stop our offense, a game plan that may be based on another teams
success against us or something new. This is a given. What's not a given is
whether or not we can counter that defensive game plan--we can add this
player or that player or more speed or more of this or that---that's fine---
but we better start coming up with 'something' that puts/keeps us in the
game. Nine games is a long time to go with no way to combat a defensive
scheme (cover 2), and there is always going to be another and another
scheme. The easy part is identifying the scheme--hard part is doing some-
thing about it to score the points needed to win...

I agree with you.. all I can comeback with is hopefully our draft will do that.. Teams use that cover 2 so they can blanket AJ and let us dump to DD and nothing against DD but he doesn't have the breakaway ability as the elite RB's (I am not knocking DD he is a solid RB) on top of that our TE's can either block or catch but not both. If mathis makes an impact.. and can catch AND run then that will help break that cover 2 (bradford has concentration lapses).. Joppru's injury.. well unfortuante ..he could have helped break the cover 2.. morency..I don't know how fast or how much of a breakaway speed he has, but if he beats out DD (I doubt it but we never know) that would be a plus for us. If Morency has the ability to break one, then they will have to respect the underneith stuff and stop using cover 2.. I am no expert on cover 2 or anything so I may be blowing smoke
'

dalemurphy
07-31-2005, 12:30 AM
I have a different point of view/concern here--everyone knows what other
teams did to stop our passing success of the first few games, the cover 2.
So, knowing this, what did the coaching staff come up with to counter the
cover 2? Anything? Every opponent is going to have a defensive game
plan to stop our offense, a game plan that may be based on another teams
success against us or something new. This is a given. What's not a given is
whether or not we can counter that defensive game plan--we can add this
player or that player or more speed or more of this or that---that's fine---
but we better start coming up with 'something' that puts/keeps us in the
game. Nine games is a long time to go with no way to combat a defensive
scheme (cover 2), and there is always going to be another and another
scheme. The easy part is identifying the scheme--hard part is doing some-
thing about it to score the points needed to win...

We ran the ball! That's what we did. However, we weren't consistant enough at it and would stall on drives. Missing a TE that could be a factor hurt as well. Also, Palmer seems disenchanted with 3 and 5 step drops and we seldom used those. However, that will be changing this year.

tsip
07-31-2005, 09:49 AM
"His maticulos note taking while the game is progressing"

There is miles of game film from all possible angles.
There is a head set with direct access to the team booth upstairs to
tell them to 'remember this or that'
There are coaches up and down the side lines to relay thoughts to
...and the players there too..

...so why the note taking in this-the modern age-does Capers ever miss
something on the field while he is taking notes?

...finally, is there another head coach in the pros that does this? in the
college ranks? high school?

throwANDREtheBALL
07-31-2005, 04:52 PM
hahahhaaha......LOL.........HA HA........ROFLMAO

I'm laughing cuz, its just as good as anything I could say, since whether your right or wrong, there will always be people on one side or the other.


Can we agree to disagree ?

:highfive: