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Playoffs
06-18-2014, 10:51 PM
ProFootballTalk @ProFootballTalk
Texans trade QB T.J. Yates to Falcons for LB Akeem Dent, per league source.

6'1", 240 lbs ILB 26 years old, camp body imo.

Updating a previous item, Falcons LB Akeem Dent won't need offseason ankle surgery.
Dent was initially expected to need a "clean-out" procedure. He got a second opinion this week, and it was determined rest and rehab should do the trick. Dent lost his starting job as the Falcons middle linebacker this past season to Paul Worrilow and will contribute as a reserve and on special teams in 2014. Feb 8 - 11:28 AM

2011 Pro Day results
Dates: 03/22/11
Height: 6010
Weight: 242
40 Yrd Dash: 4.73
20 Yrd Dash: 2.72
10 Yrd Dash: 1.70
225 Lb. Bench Reps: 24
Vertical Jump: 37 1/2
Broad Jump: 10'03"
20 Yrd Shuttle: 4.38
3-Cone Drill: 6.93

3-cone number ~= Ryan Shazier's from '14 class.

2011 3rd round pick by Falcons.

NCTexan
06-18-2014, 10:51 PM
ProFootballTalk @ProFootballTalk

Nooooo! I thought I had you beat in the TJ was released thread and which QB would be waived thread.

ItsMyFault
06-18-2014, 10:53 PM
Well, the Texans could always use ILB depth. Hopefully him moving back to 3-4 helps him out since has sucked in 4-3.

TheMatrix31
06-18-2014, 10:54 PM
Not sure who that is but okay, sure.

badboy
06-18-2014, 10:57 PM
How he can he be traded if he was cut? What am I missing here? Local Fox channel just showed OB talking about Yates being cut and a solid pro that should land somewhere.

Playoffs
06-18-2014, 11:00 PM
How he can he be traded if he was cut? What am I missing here? Local Fox channel just showed OB talking about Yates being cut and a solid pro that should land somewhere.

Evidently hadn't been filed with the league, yet,

and Falcons wanted to snake him away from Kubiak.

Yates certainly would have chosen the Ravens, imo.

Apparently a (very) mini bidding war developed after the announcement,


Ian Rapoport ‏@RapSheet
Per @ProFootballTalk, once word got out #Texans would be releasing Yates, teams started calling. Suddenly, he had value & no deadline to cut

TJ Yates was informed of his release yesterday. But on today’s transaction wire, his name wasn’t submitted. This trade explains why. #solved

Tues #Texans decided to cut QB TJ Yates. Move never became official, thus they could trade him for #Falcons LB Akeem Dent. PFT 1st reported

Nitrofish
06-18-2014, 11:02 PM
How he can he be traded if he was cut? What am I missing here? Local Fox channel just showed OB talking about Yates being cut and a solid pro that should land somewhere.

Was wondering the same thing.

http://www.houstontexans.com/news/article-2/O%E2%80%99Brien-on-TJ-Yates-decision/a13f8db1-367b-4945-9cbd-e8fd28f86eef

Uncle Rico
06-18-2014, 11:12 PM
http://www.csnhouston.com/football-houston-texans/talk/texans-trade-tj-yates-falcons


The Texans pulled a fast one.

The Texans never officially cut T.J. Yates. Instead, they kept the veteran quarterback on the roster, then traded him to the Falcons on Wednesday night.

AngryNateFTW
06-18-2014, 11:14 PM
TJ Yates is a Marietta, Georgia Native. Good spot for him to land and possibly play back-up the rest of his career.

Falcons had big ILB problems with losing Witherspoon for the year. They must not think much of Dent and so we probably shouldn't either. Camp body like the OP said.

badboy
06-18-2014, 11:24 PM
Concerning his ankle injury this article is Feb 14th

At first, it looked as if Atlanta Falcons‘ inside linebacker Akeem Dent would need to get ankle surgery from an injury he sustained in Week 4 during a loss to the New England Patriots. The injury seemed to carry over through the entire season. After seeking a second opinion, it looks like Dent will not need surgery after all.

When getting the second look at his ankle, Dent was told rest and rehab should help repair the ankle just fine. Dent lost the starting linebacker role because of the lingering injury to undrafted rookie Paul Worrilow. Dent then had to play on special teams.

Dent is entering the final year on the four-year contract he signed in 2011. Dent is expected to be back in play for the starting linebacker role barring any setbacks or if the organization adds anyone from free agency or the draft.

The team recently released Dent’s former teammate Stephen Nicholas last Wednesday. The Falcons suffered from big-time injuries throughout the 2013 season and it hurt the defense more than anything. Dent will count for $860,725 in 2014. The Falcons are praying that he can produce defensively.

If Dent can not, the team can release the former third round pick from Georgia. Either way, Dent will face some type of adversity. Will he overcome the odds?

Brandon Sweeney is Co-Editor of the Gab Network. Follow him on Twitter @NFLNSTUFF, Like him on Facebook , add him to Google+, and Trust him on Sulia.

Stats:
IIRC he had pretty decent tackles in his last year at Georgia

DBCooper
06-18-2014, 11:28 PM
At least we got something for the guy.

Playoffs
06-18-2014, 11:29 PM
At least we got something for the guy.

Most exciting event since we got a 6th for Matt. :doot:


...pending dent passes physical exam.

76Texan
06-19-2014, 12:20 AM
I've been trying to refrain from the first moment I read this; and it was like the first moment it was posted.

I cannot help remember reading a book (maybe Tim green? ) and players were saying how they think they were treated like pieces of meat
.

I think the situation is better handled now.

I still think I like to post this as a reference of time past and time nowadays.

beerlover
06-19-2014, 01:45 AM
Remember Akeem out of Georgia, had a 5th rd. grade on him. Hate to say this but reminded me a lot of Sharpton, good in pursuit but not anchor in the middle if that what anyone was hoping for. Better fit OLB but they already have Trevardo. Going to be tough for him just like Yates but Texans seem to have sorted out QB, must still have LB questions that calls to bring in more talent/comp.

Thorn
06-19-2014, 02:46 AM
WTF? Was he traded or cut?

Lambert
06-19-2014, 03:59 AM
WTF? Was he traded or cut?

He was traded because although the team told TJ he was cut they didn't inform the league, and so he wasn't on waivers. They traded him to Atlanta because having not put him on waivers, they still owned his rights and wanted to have Atlanta have him as opposed to a division team, and because they needed a ILB.

Why do they need a ILB? 'Cause, 1) with Clowney maybe down for the first part of the season, they need Brooks at OLB, not ILB. 2) While they have several ILB candidates---Bullough, etc., what happens if Cush is not ready, can't play at his previous ability, or is again injured?

CloakNNNdagger
06-19-2014, 08:27 AM
He was traded because although the team told TJ he was cut they didn't inform the league, and so he wasn't on waivers. They traded him to Atlanta because having not put him on waivers, they still owned his rights and wanted to have Atlanta have him as opposed to a division team, and because they needed a ILB.

Why do they need a ILB? 'Cause, 1) with Clowney maybe down for the first part of the season, they need Brooks at OLB, not ILB. 2) While they have several ILB candidates---Bullough, etc., what happens if Cush is not ready, can't play at his previous ability, or is again injured?

I can't muster any excitement about a player that pre-ankle surgery demonstrated underwhelming tackling technique.....and absolutely NO COVERAGE SKILLS. BTW, Atlanta just replaced him by signing Tim Dobbins, who if you remember was IRed in January 2013 for also a severe ankle injury, then re-signed......and decided to skip OTAs to work on his house......then from then on suffered unrelenting hamstring problems until he was finally released. On the bright side, it gave him time to complete building his home.:wadepalm:

IDEXAN
06-19-2014, 08:33 AM
Rick is getting to be a real slicker, and I mean that in a complimentary way.
He's making moves to capture value or potential value for our team in exchange for unwanted, discarded players. And I dunno, but where was crack Texans-beat-journalist McClain when this deal was going down, chowing down on What-a-Burgers and watching flics ?

disaacks3
06-19-2014, 08:45 AM
Rick is getting to be a real slicker, and I mean that in a complimentary way.
He's making moves to capture value or potential value for our team in exchange for unwanted, discarded players. And I dunno, but where was crack Texans-beat-journalist McClain when this deal was going down, chowing down on What-a-Burgers and watching flics ? I'd like to agree with you, but I think this was more "the phone started ringing" and teams farther down the waiver wire didn't want to risk losing out.

CloakNNNdagger
06-19-2014, 08:49 AM
Rick is getting to be a real slicker, and I mean that in a complimentary way.
He's making moves to capture value or potential value for our team in exchange for unwanted, discarded players. And I dunno, but where was crack Texans-beat-journalist McClain when this deal was going down, chowing down on What-a-Burgers and watching flics ?

I was thinking the same. For that matter, where were any of the HT.com reporters? I am quickly getting very discouraged by the poor/false reporting on this team......even on non-secretive issues.

TejasTom
06-19-2014, 08:53 AM
I'd like to agree with you, but I think this was more "the phone started ringing" and teams farther down the waiver wire didn't want to risk losing out.

Well the only teams in font of the Falcons are:
Redskins
Jaguars
Browns*
Raiders

ObsiWan
06-19-2014, 09:25 AM
Most exciting event since we got a 6th for Matt. :doot:


...pending dent passes physical exam.

I'm surprised - again - Rick Smith gets something for nothing.

And I heard on the radio that "7 or 8 teams" inquired about Yates after O'Brien announced that Keenum was to be 2nd string and Yates would be released. My question is who else "inquired" and who decided that Dent was to be the pick-up.

And the answer to the "how can we trade someone we'd cut" is we never officially cut him. Apparently, the Texans' phones started ringing before the front office could process the release forms.

CloakNNNdagger
06-19-2014, 09:31 AM
Obsiwan,

I'm not so sure we got something for nothing.

Giant Tiger
06-19-2014, 09:32 AM
Most exciting event since we got a 6th for Matt. :doot:


...pending dent passes physical exam.

So did we get more for Yates or Schaub? :thinking:

TheRealJoker
06-19-2014, 10:06 AM
I doubt he makes the team but it's nice that we were able to get something for TJ rather than outright cutting him. Gives this linebacker a chance to make a DENT on this defense and surprise us.

HOU-TEX
06-19-2014, 10:07 AM
Obsiwan,

I'm not so sure we got something for nothing.

I think if there's any chance whatsoever that Dent can contribute to the team in any way, then yes, we did get something for nothing. IMO, ay least

Hervoyel
06-19-2014, 10:08 AM
Obsiwan,

I'm not so sure we got something for nothing.

Well, then that's OK too. At least the Texans got another player to take a look at out of the deal. That's a huge improvement over the Texans old way of doing things.

ObsiWan
06-19-2014, 10:13 AM
Obsiwan,

I'm not so sure we got something for nothing.
My thinking is we got a possible special teams addition for a guy we were about to let hit the street (Yates).

Dent was a 3rd round pick in 2011 and a starter in Atlanta during the 2012 season when they finished 13-3...
Alright, Cloak... Spill it.
What's the lowdown on this guy.
Did injuries knock him out of his starters job?

Playoffs
06-19-2014, 10:29 AM
Actually a bit of a sneaky move by Rick. The timing/announcement was a bit odd. Then Dave Zangero noted nothing had come across the league wire, and that happens pretty quickly. So Rick put the league on blast that TJ was coming available and the competition began. We'll see if Dent can contribute on special teams, but at worst we got a lemon for nothing.

NCTexan
06-19-2014, 10:35 AM
I was thinking the same. For that matter, where were any of the HT.com reporters? I am quickly getting very discouraged by the poor/false reporting on this team......even on non-secretive issues.

I mean, they even told TJ he was gonna be released, and the news didn't break until late last night. I think we found out about it as soon as anyone knew.

ObsiWan
06-19-2014, 10:49 AM
WTF? Was he traded or cut?
Traded ...apparently.

CloakNNNdagger
06-19-2014, 10:54 AM
I mean, they even told TJ he was gonna be released, and the news didn't break until late last night. I think we found out about it as soon as anyone knew.

Apparently, he wanted to go to the Ravens and the Ravens wanted him. I wonder if TJ has the same good thoughts towards the Texans as when he tweeted?

Playoffs
06-19-2014, 11:09 AM
Jayson Braddock ‏@JaysonBraddock
HBO trades Akeem Dent for TJ Yates. It's a "Hard Knocks" life for TJ.

Welcome to "Hollywood", Mr. Yates.


Apparently, he wanted to go to the Ravens and the Ravens wanted him...

Ravens knew what was going on and decided they would only submit a waiver wire claim -- which they would have lost because ATL was still ahead of BAL on the w.w. Ozzie was out-Ozzied this time.

More than a few teams felt TJ was an upgrade at their backup QB spot, but you just don't give up much for that at this time of year.

CloakNNNdagger
06-19-2014, 11:10 AM
My thinking is we got a possible special teams addition for a guy we were about to let hit the street (Yates).

Dent was a 3rd round pick in 2011 and a starter in Atlanta during the 2012 season when they finished 13-3...
Alright, Cloak... Spill it.
What's the lowdown on this guy.
Did injuries knock him out of his starters job?

Akeem had absolutely no injury history until last year when in the early goings he sustained a shoulder injury, then dealt with his ankle injury (began as a severe high ankle sprain for which he was initially booted) from the 5th week on. He was to undergo an ankle cleanup in mid Feb of this year, but a second opinion changed his mind.....and his team wasn't going to push it since they had already made plans for his replacement by players already on the team.

His injuries were the coup d'tat. He never lived up to his 3rd round pick. Before the last season, there was talk of him sinking to the bottom of the depth chart. The way I see it, we have picked up a very marginal player that furthermore has a decent possibility of playing as a cripple until surgery is performed. And then, who knows.

BigBull17
06-19-2014, 11:27 AM
Actually a bit of a sneaky move by Rick. The timing/announcement was a bit odd. Then Dave Zangero noted nothing had come across the league wire, and that happens pretty quickly. So Rick put the league on blast that TJ was coming available and the competition began. We'll see if Dent can contribute on special teams, but at worst we got a lemon for nothing.

Yeah, it was a very shrewd move. Kinda caught me by suprise that ol Rick could be that tricky.

Vance87
06-19-2014, 12:11 PM
Wait...aren't we practicing with the Falcons? So we're gonna watch Yates go against us on Hard Knocks?

steelbtexan
06-19-2014, 12:13 PM
Akeem had absolutely no injury history until last year when in the early goings he sustained a shoulder injury, then dealt with his ankle injury (began as a severe high ankle sprain for which he was initially booted) from the 5th week on. He was to undergo an ankle cleanup in mid Feb of this year, but a second opinion changed his mind.....and his team wasn't going to push it since they had already made plans for his replacement by players already on the team.

His injuries were the coup d'tat. He never lived up to his 3rd round pick. Before the last season, there was talk of him sinking to the bottom of the depth chart. The way I see it, we have picked up a very marginal player that furthermore has a decent possibility of playing as a cripple until surgery is performed. And then, who knows.

They got a 2012 starter (Dent) off of a 13-3 team because he got injured last yr. Hopefully Dent recovers and regains his 2012 form. Or atleast becomes a valuable ST's guy. If not then they really didn't lose anything because they were going to cut Yates anyway. (Glass half full)

Double Barrel
06-19-2014, 12:23 PM
Actually a bit of a sneaky move by Rick. The timing/announcement was a bit odd. Then Dave Zangero noted nothing had come across the league wire, and that happens pretty quickly. So Rick put the league on blast that TJ was coming available and the competition began. We'll see if Dent can contribute on special teams, but at worst we got a lemon for nothing.

They should announce that Keenum is going to be cut to see if any interested parties inquire about him. :evil:

CloakNNNdagger
06-19-2014, 01:00 PM
They got a 2012 starter (Dent) off of a 13-3 team because he got injured last yr. Hopefully Dent recovers and regains his 2012 form. Or atleast becomes a valuable ST's guy. If not then they really didn't lose anything because they were going to cut Yates anyway. (Glass half full)

If anyone was considering surgery for a long-standing high ankle sprain, it means that the ankle was unstable and continuing to grind the joint. Caldwell followed the same course without surgery and continued re-injuring the same ankle, then in compensation sustained a high ankle sprain of the other ankle which he continued to re-injure, never truly ever making it back to respectability. Ever since he left the Texans, he has been tried out by several teams and never offered a contract.

badboy
06-19-2014, 02:30 PM
Dent also emerged from the 2011 draft—as the next Atlanta pick after Dimitroff made a bold trade, moving up in the first round to acquire standout wide receiver Julio Jones. At age 26, the best may still be yet to come for Dent. Texans defensive coordinator Romeo Crennel may be the coach to elevate his game.

The move makes a lot of sense for both teams, as each player still has room to develop. For the Falcons, they have to be thankful Houston has a crowded quarterback room. Yates can make all the required throws and has flashed the ability to be a serviceable second-stringer.

But the Texans also came away winners here. They created less convolution in their QB situation, which is admittedly far less promising than Atlanta's. At the same time, they added insurance to the front seven, which is smart since Pro Bowl inside linebacker Brian Cushing is coming off a torn LCL and broken fibula. http://bleacherreport.com/nfl

He had 51 tackles 1.5 sacks in 2013

ObsiWan
06-19-2014, 02:33 PM
Akeem had absolutely no injury history until last year when in the early goings he sustained a shoulder injury, then dealt with his ankle injury (began as a severe high ankle sprain for which he was initially booted) from the 5th week on. He was to undergo an ankle cleanup in mid Feb of this year, but a second opinion changed his mind.....and his team wasn't going to push it since they had already made plans for his replacement by players already on the team.

His injuries were the coup d'tat. He never lived up to his 3rd round pick. Before the last season, there was talk of him sinking to the bottom of the depth chart. The way I see it, we have picked up a very marginal player that furthermore has a decent possibility of playing as a cripple until surgery is performed. And then, who knows.

Still, a long shot at getting a special teams guy or a backup ILB for a guy we were just about to hand walking papers to is worth a shot.

...unless you know that some other team was about to offer something more appealing.

and along those lines, I sure would like to know what the other teams that were interested in Yates were willing to give up... late round picks? another player with a better injury history...
I dunno, just curious.

badboy
06-19-2014, 02:41 PM
I wonder if any medical exam reports on the ankle were flying to Houston late night?

Just found this: OVERVIEW
Dent is an undersized, hard-nosed, productive linebacker but lacks the strength to hold up in the box or the pure speed and athleticism needed to start in the NFL. Likely projects as a backup and special teams coverage guy. Does not find the football quick enough when engaged, has a difficult time shedding, but also doesn't possess the range to provide much value out in space or dropping into coverage. Can get sucked in by play-action and will chase underneath routes giving up deeper responsibilities. Just adequate when pressuring the passer. Despite his physical limitations, Dent's mentality will probably make him a late-round pick.
http://www.nfl.com/draft/2011/profiles/akeem-dent?id=2495276


Event Ht Wt Hand Arm Wing Wonderlic 40 yard BP BJ VJ 20s 60s 3 Cn
03/02/2011 Combine 6-1 242 10 32 78 7/8 17 24 10'3" 37 1/2
01/16/2011 East-West Shrine 6-1 1/8 239 9 7/8 32 3/8 78 1/2

CloakNNNdagger
06-19-2014, 02:46 PM
Still, a long shot at getting a special teams guy or a backup ILB for a guy we were just about to hand walking papers to is worth a shot.

...unless you know that some other team was about to offer something more appealing.

and along those lines, I sure would like to know what the other teams that were interested in Yates were willing to give up... late round picks? another player with a better injury history...
I dunno, just curious.

All good questions. May never find out.

DX-TEX
06-19-2014, 02:50 PM
Rick got something for basically nothing twice this off season and some are STILL questioning him? He lucked into it?

Seriously. Give the guy some credit

badboy
06-19-2014, 02:55 PM
Rick got something for basically nothing twice this off season and some are STILL questioning him? He lucked into it?

Seriously. Give the guy some creditI think moving up to get Nix is even more important. If nothing else Texans are creating buzz in this off season without any sacrifices.

Playoffs
06-19-2014, 03:01 PM
I wonder if any medical exam reports on the ankle were flying to Houston late night?

He has to pass our physical.

badboy
06-19-2014, 03:05 PM
He has to pass our physical.and Yates could actually come back to Houston and be traded again elsewhere. Other teams knowing Yates is coveted may up their anty and we could get even a better deal and uh, I need to slow down...:thinking:

PapaL
06-19-2014, 03:23 PM
and Yates could actually come back to Houston and be traded again elsewhere. Other teams knowing Yates is coveted may up their anty and we could get even a better deal and uh, I need to slow down...:thinking:

Hopefully Pats send us Tom Brady for him!

76Texan
06-19-2014, 04:09 PM
Dent didn't look half bad in the first game against the Rams.

If he doesn't have problem with the ankle, it's a good deal.

El Tejano
06-19-2014, 04:34 PM
All I want to say is....Thanks TJ for that 2011 year. You have no idea what that TD in Cincinatti did for me. It came at the most difficult time in my life and that was the only thing I had to smile about. You'll always have a home with Houston fans man!

Lucky
06-19-2014, 08:50 PM
Rick got something for basically nothing twice this off season and some are STILL questioning him? He lucked into it?

Seriously. Give the guy some credit

You want to give Smith props for taking a phone call? OK. Has the bar dropped that low?

Texecutioner
06-19-2014, 08:55 PM
Thank god Yates is finally gone.

At least now I won't have to hear the homers in here clamoring at the ridiculous idea that he would have ever been a starter here much less lead a team to a SB like many in here were spewing a few years ago.

BigBull
06-19-2014, 09:55 PM
Thank god Yates is finally gone.



At least now I won't have to hear the homers in here clamoring at the ridiculous idea that he would have ever been a starter here much less lead a team to a SB like many in here were spewing a few years ago.


Now all they need to do is get rid of the other joke named Keenum and the purge will be complete.


Sent from the future...

DX-TEX
06-19-2014, 11:31 PM
You want to give Smith props for taking a phone call? OK. Has the bar dropped that low?

Yep because we KNOW that's all that happened.

Maybe, just maybe, Rick/BOB played the media and other teams like a fiddle leaking the "he has been waived" rumor to garner some interest.

steelbtexan
06-19-2014, 11:37 PM
You want to give Smith props for taking a phone call? OK. Has the bar dropped that low?

Smith may not have been the person taking the phone call. Nobody is quite sure what Smith's responsibilities are. He's the Teflon man.

TheMatrix31
06-20-2014, 12:35 AM
I still wanna know what the **** was going through TJ Yates' mind on some of those passes he threw in the playoff game against the Ravens.

DX-TEX
06-20-2014, 12:57 AM
I still wanna know what the **** was going through TJ Yates' mind on some of those passes he threw in the playoff game against the Ravens.

Call me crazy I still believe that was all Kubiak telling him to chunk it to Dre even though Arian was tearing them up

barrett
06-20-2014, 03:34 AM
Smith may not have been the person taking the phone call. Nobody is quite sure what Smith's responsibilities are. He's the Teflon man.

I'm not sure why I'm commenting on this silliness, but is it not possible that Yates sent out his tweet and word got out that way? Someone called the front office after a twitter feed alerted staff members of several NFL teams simultaneously.

Just some free ammo for you, Ric-Smith-is-bad-at-his-job people...

Malloy
06-20-2014, 04:21 AM
Question. Could we have recieved a comp. pick next draft for releasing Yates?

76Texan
06-20-2014, 06:05 AM
Question. Could we have recieved a comp. pick next draft for releasing Yates?

Nope.

76Texan
06-20-2014, 07:14 AM
I've been watching Dent and he seems to be a fairly solid ILB.
His play is at least comparable to Joe Mays and Sharpton last year.
He's at least a good backup; that is, if his ankle doesn't give him problem.

He was the starter until he injured the ankle during the fourth game.
In his absence, the Falcons might have found a gem from a small school.
This guy's numbers at his pro day were pretty incredible:

http://www.thefalcoholic.com/2013/8/26/4659386/another-look-at-paul-worrilows-pro-day-numbers

Dent can at least play in the base package adequately, again, if his ankles hold up.
He doesn't excel at anything, nor is he terrible - and that spells backup.

They normally used him at the MO, and he looked so-so covering the RBs and in zone coverage.

In the meantime, Yates has a great chance to be Matt Ryan's backup.
It's a really good situation for him.
He has a better chance to make the roster than Keenum, believe it or not.

Playoffs
06-20-2014, 09:18 AM
T.J. Yates: 'it kind of hits you when you walk out of that building for the last time' (http://www.myfoxhouston.com/story/25825220/tj-yates-it-kind-of-hits-you-when-you-walk-out-of-that-building-for-the-last-time)
...
"I was very down when I realized I was being let go, thought I was being let go," Yates said in an interview with FOX 26 Sports. "Then All of the sudden I'm
traded to my hometown team and I couldn't be happier now. It's a great situation for me and my wife. Both of our families are from Atlanta."
...
"Honestly, when you realize you're leaving a team that you've been with for so long and you create so many relationships with both players and coaches and fans and media personnel, it kind of hits you when you walk out of that building for the last time."
...
And Yates will be right back in Houston during the preseason when the Falcons practice against the Texans during the second week of the preseason, with the two teams playing at NRG Stadium on Aug. 16.

"That's going to be fun," Yates said. "It's going to be really weird, actually, to be walking out onto that field as an opponent. It's going to be really weird because I'm going to be seeing all of the same faces that I always see, my former teammates. It's going to be a weird moment.

"It'll be fun."

And Yates has a message for Texans fans.

"I'd just thank them for all of the support." Yates said. "It's been an amazing three years.

"I'm never going to forget the times that I had here, on and off the field. I'm really going to miss this town."

Thorn
06-20-2014, 09:27 AM
Just as we remember Billy Miller catching the very first TD in Texans history, we'll always remember TJ as the QB in our very first playoff victory.

kingtexan
06-20-2014, 10:32 AM
At least we got something ...

drs23
06-20-2014, 10:50 AM
Nope.

Is that because he's still on his rookie contract and not yet vested? Anyone?

Exascor
06-20-2014, 10:53 AM
Is that because he's still on his rookie contract and not yet vested? Anyone?
No. You don't get a comp pick for releasing players. You get them when their contacts run out.

drs23
06-20-2014, 10:58 AM
No. You don't get a comp pick for releasing players. You get them when their contacts run out.

Thanks. So it has nothing to do whether or not the player is vested yet?

Double Barrel
06-20-2014, 04:22 PM
Thank god Yates is finally gone.

At least now I won't have to hear the homers in here clamoring at the ridiculous idea that he would have ever been a starter here much less lead a team to a SB like many in here were spewing a few years ago.

Wait...are you talking about Yates or Case Keenum? :fingergun:

Just as we remember Billy Miller catching the very first TD in Texans history, we'll always remember TJ as the QB in our very first playoff victory.

Yep, that was a really fun year. I took my son and best bud to that first playoff game. Win or lose, we were happy to be at that first playoff game in franchise history.

TJ threw Andre his first post-season TD pass in our endzone, which was the same endzone that JJ Watt made the swat that would become a pick 6 for him.

That was one of those events that I hope to never forget. I appreciate TJ for that alone, even though I never expected him to be anything much after that point.

Marshall
06-20-2014, 06:24 PM
Rick is getting to be a real slicker, and I mean that in a complimentary way.
He's making moves to capture value or potential value for our team in exchange for unwanted, discarded players. And I dunno, but where was crack Texans-beat-journalist McClain when this deal was going down, chowing down on What-a-Burgers and watching flics ?

You can compliment Rick without disparaging McLain. I do tire of the attacks on weight which have no bearing on job performance. We had it with Purpora and now with McLain. Just make the case for incompetence and leave the attacks on looks out of it.

Marshall
06-20-2014, 06:26 PM
Actually a bit of a sneaky move by Rick. The timing/announcement was a bit odd. Then Dave Zangero noted nothing had come across the league wire, and that happens pretty quickly. So Rick put the league on blast that TJ was coming available and the competition began. We'll see if Dent can contribute on special teams, but at worst we got a lemon for nothing.

It's either a Lemon or Lemonaide...

Marshall
06-20-2014, 06:29 PM
Now all they need to do is get rid of the other joke named Keenum and the purge will be complete.


Sent from the future...

What an appropriate name.

76Texan
06-20-2014, 06:55 PM
No. You don't get a comp pick for releasing players. You get them when their contacts run out.
You don't automatically get a comp pick just because a contract runs out.


Thanks. So it has nothing to do whether or not the player is vested yet?
No and yes.

The formula to determine the comp picks was never made public, but it has been derived that money does matter.)

Every year, there are players whose contracts run out with their respective teams.
Barwin, for example, finishes with his contract in 2012.
He became an UFA.
He was free to negotiate a new contract with any team in the league.
He decided to sign with the Eagles for 6 years, worth a total of $36M with $8M guaranteed.
All these figures are qualifiers for the Texans in the possibility of obtaining a comp pick.
Barwin went on to play 1,207 snaps for the Eagles.
That's among the tops of any position in the NFL.
This is a figure considered in the formula.
They combine to make Barwin a "high quality" free agents that the Texans lost.
(If Barwin received recognitions and awards with the Eagles, like making the Pro-Bowl or voted Superbowl MVP, his value would increase further.)

The Texans signed 3 free agents (who qualified in the consideration to determine the comp picks) and lost 6.
That's a net loss of 3.

The league looks at all the numbers of these free agents and compare them with the numbers from the other teams.

The team with the "worst" net loss gets the most compensation in form of compensatory picks.

So if you define "vested" as finishing up a 4-yr rookie contract, than the answer is yes.
However, it doesn't automatically gets the Texans a comp pick.
Let's take an extreme example, if nobody had signed Barwin, including the Texans (resigning him.)
The Texans would have lost a free agent that doesn't qualified in the considerations for comp pick.

Clear as mud?

The Pencil Neck
06-22-2014, 04:19 PM
sad that he's the only QB in texan history to win a playoff game.

Wrong but thanks for playing.

ChampionTexan
06-22-2014, 04:32 PM
matt schaub doesnt count.

Amazing, you apparently understand how we feel about you!

Honoring Earl 34
06-22-2014, 04:42 PM
Amazing, you apparently understand how we feel about you!

He and Texian need a chat room .

Nitrofish
06-22-2014, 08:38 PM
you love me.

you just dont know it yet.


texantalk feels like it has a good old texas boy network feel to it.

Yea, and next you will be calling us racist too. It does get very Clique-ish in here at times, but Good Ole' Boy? Not so much.

Troy Chapman
06-22-2014, 10:51 PM
I'd like to agree with you, but I think this was more "the phone started ringing" and teams farther down the waiver wire didn't want to risk losing out.

Would Yates even hit the waiver wire? Or was he vested enough to become a free agent and not hit the waiver wire? Odd that Atlanta was 5th on the waiver wire but was afraid of other teams getting him?

Marshall
06-22-2014, 10:59 PM
you love me.

you just dont know it yet.


texantalk feels like it has a good old texas boy network feel to it.

Love/pitty... something like that...

Honoring Earl 34
06-22-2014, 11:03 PM
you love me.

you just dont know it yet.


texantalk feels like it has a good old texas boy network feel to it.

It's more like when I had a really bad case of poison ivy in 07 . You can't scratch it so you try to ignore it .

ObsiWan
06-23-2014, 02:23 AM
matt schaub doesnt count.
So now you're re-writing NFL records to suit your point of view?

http://t.qkme.me/3qanr6.jpg

thunderkyss
06-28-2014, 10:25 PM
dont worry guys,

maybe our front office will pick a qb earlier than the 4th or 5th round next year.

i mean its only the most important position in the nfl.

maybe they go aggressive and pick a qb in the 3rd round this time.


smdh.

Are you aiming for another Matt Schaub?

EllisUnit
06-28-2014, 10:43 PM
you love me.

you just dont know it yet.


texantalk feels like it has a good old texas boy network feel to it.

Na i wouldn't say that it is more about people respecting your views even though they don't agree with you and vice verse. It is really about how you present yourself, this board gives back what you put into it.

:bubbles:

Carr Bombed
06-29-2014, 02:06 AM
you love me.

you just dont know it yet.


texantalk feels like it has a good old texas boy network feel to it.

WTF exactly is a "good old Texas boy network" and how does it pertain to this site? please explain.

CloakNNNdagger
06-29-2014, 08:21 AM
Na i wouldn't say that it is more about people respecting your views even though they don't agree with you and vice verse. It is really about how you present yourself, this board gives back what you put into it.

:bubbles:

:clap: MSR

EllisUnit
06-29-2014, 09:32 AM
WTF exactly is a "good old Texas boy network" and how does it pertain to this site? please explain.

It means where we are all buddy buddy, have each others back and gang up on anyone we consider an outsider. As if we we're in High School and were the jocks, and we just gave this poor kid a swirly. At least then letter men jackets were cool ;)

Thorn
06-29-2014, 11:05 AM
:clap: MSR

I got him.

Brisco_County
06-29-2014, 12:05 PM
texantalk feels like it has a good old texas boy network feel to it.

Why, because your substanceless b!tching is regularly challenged?

There's an old saying in Ireland: "If everyone in the bar tells you you're drunk, then you should sit down." In other words, there comes a point where you have to stop ignoring people's feedback. What you claim to be a good ol' boy network is just everyone telling you to sit down.

PapaL
06-30-2014, 10:34 AM
Why, because your substanceless b!tching is regularly challenged?

There's an old saying in Ireland: "If everyone in the bar tells you you're drunk, then you should sit down." In other words, there comes a point where you have to stop ignoring people's feedback. What you claim to be a good ol' boy network is just everyone telling you to sit down.

I believe my signature block says it all.

Playoffs
06-30-2014, 10:38 AM
There's an old saying in Ireland: "If everyone in the bar tells you you're drunk...

I bet they say that old saying a lot in Ireland. :ahhaha:

Brisco_County
06-30-2014, 10:41 AM
I bet they say that old saying a lot in Ireland. :ahhaha:

I've encountered it plenty in Texas.

Playoffs
06-30-2014, 12:09 PM
I've encountered it plenty in Texas.

Naw, in Texas we get over-served. :fingergun:

badboy
06-30-2014, 12:35 PM
We also say the good Lord created whiskey to keep us Irish from ruling the world.

CloakNNNdagger
07-13-2014, 05:54 PM
...

Drew Dougherty @DoughertyDrew Jul 11

ILB Akeem Dent will wear #50 & OLB Trevardo Williams will now wear #49. #Texans

Texian
07-13-2014, 07:27 PM
Na i wouldn't say that it is more about people respecting your views even though they don't agree with you and vice verse. It is really about how you present yourself, this board gives back what you put into it.

:bubbles:

This board is mostly a bunch of inside the box group thinking kool aid drinkers who become highly agitated with any comments that doesn't agree with the consensus group think and/or any comments that can be construed as any disagreement with the folks working over on Kirby Dr.

Texian
07-13-2014, 07:30 PM
sad that he's the only QB in texan history to win a playoff game.

very sad situation and history.

dont worry guys,

maybe our front office will pick a qb earlier than the 4th or 5th round next year.

i mean its only the most important position in the nfl.

maybe they go aggressive and pick a qb in the 3rd round this time.


smdh.

Well there is one person on this message board who gets it.

infantrycak
07-13-2014, 07:34 PM
This board is mostly a bunch of inside the box group thinking kool aid drinkers who become highly agitated with any comments that doesn't agree with the consensus group think and/or any comments that can be construed as any disagreement with the folks working over on Kirby Dr.

You're so full of it. What's worse is your thinly veiled self congratulation (as is so frequent from you) implication of superiority. Don't you have some Bortles magazines you need to work on getting the pages unstuck?

Honoring Earl 34
07-13-2014, 07:37 PM
You're so full of it. What's worse is your thinly veiled self congratulation (as is so frequent from you) implication of superiority. Don't you have some Bortles magazines you need to work on getting the pages unstuck?

I think the pages are stuck together !

Honoring Earl 34
07-13-2014, 07:38 PM
Well there is one person on this message board who gets it.

http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20140505192935/sistersgrimm/images/4/46/Obviously.gif

Texian
07-13-2014, 07:50 PM
You're so full of it. What's worse is your thinly veiled self congratulation (as is so frequent from you) implication of superiority. Don't you have some Bortles magazines you need to work on getting the pages unstuck?

See what I mean....

Home team fan
07-13-2014, 08:05 PM
We also say the good Lord created whiskey to keep us Irish from ruling the world.

I've always said alcohol, but maybe that's the Indian in me.

badboy
07-13-2014, 09:58 PM
I've always said alcohol, but maybe that's the Indian in me.No offense but I don't think you guys had alcohol until we shared. Of course we only did that because we were such nice guys. That and we sort of hoped you guys might pick up the tab...

Home team fan
07-13-2014, 10:38 PM
No offense but I don't think you guys had alcohol until we shared. Of course we only did that because we were such nice guys. That and we sort of hoped you guys might pick up the tab...

Irish and Indian here. I'm positive I will not rule the world. But lets skip out on the tab. Just tell them I'm Indian they'll get it.

badboy
07-13-2014, 10:52 PM
Irish and Indian here. I'm positive I will not rule the world. But lets skip out on the tab. Just tell them I'm Indian they'll get it.
Hilarious, we were doomed from birth. I like Bourbon actually but have not drank in years. Guy I played Volleyball with told me yesterday he is Indian and has to stick to beers.

Home team fan
07-13-2014, 11:50 PM
Hilarious, we were doomed from birth. I like Bourbon actually but have not drank in years. Guy I played Volleyball with told me yesterday he is Indian and has to stick to beers.

I'm a bourbon guy myself. As I'm getting older though I try to save it for special occasions, like when I have a day or two to recover.

thunderkyss
07-14-2014, 07:56 AM
This board is mostly a bunch of inside the box group thinking kool aid drinkers who become highly agitated with any comments that doesn't agree with the consensus group think and/or any comments that can be construed as any disagreement with the folks working over on Kirby Dr.

Or we just don't agree with you.

PapaL
07-14-2014, 08:07 AM
Or we just don't agree with you.

He's still pouting about the Bortles thing huh?
:vincepalm:

Thorn
07-14-2014, 09:03 AM
It's a damn shame everyone has all these contrary views of things, when all yall have to do is read my posts. I am full of correctness and the proper point of view at all times. :)

Honoring Earl 34
07-14-2014, 09:55 AM
He's still pouting about the Bortles thing huh?
:vincepalm:

Dear Casey, I have a request and dedication. You are my favorite old skool dj. I used to listen to you on the radio, and I would be under the covers in bed, supposed to be fast asleep, but I’d rather listen to you gleam about Blake Bortles .
You have inspired me to become the man I am today, a man who gets to bring laughter and joy to thousands of Texans fans across the land. Casey can you play a song about the pain in my heart when the Texans drafted Clowney instead of Bortles .

Thanks & BB Forever
Texian

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yG07WSu7Q9w&feature=kp

Texian
07-14-2014, 09:57 AM
Or we just don't agree with you.

That's fine! I don't have any problem with that as the people who do and set in their ways.
However when you say the Texans don't have a salary cap problem I will do my best to explain to you why they do. BTW the Texans trip to Salary Cap Hell all started with Bob McNair when he said, "we have the money and we're going to spend it!"

HOU-TEX
07-14-2014, 10:17 AM
Dear Casey, I have a request and dedication. You are my favorite old skool dj. I used to listen to you on the radio, and I would be under the covers in bed, supposed to be fast asleep, but Id rather listen to you gleam about Blake Bortles .
You have inspired me to become the man I am today, a man who gets to bring laughter and joy to thousands of Texans fans across the land. Casey can you play a song about the pain in my heart when the Texans drafted Clowney instead of Bortles .

Thanks & BB Forever
Texian

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yG07WSu7Q9w&feature=kp

Lol. MSR

Texian
07-14-2014, 10:26 AM
http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20140505192935/sistersgrimm/images/4/46/Obviously.gif

I always try to take into account that posters here could be 12-15 years old. If I didn't know better I would assume that would apply to you by the content of posts. Dadgum man, you're 51 years old and your comments are some of the most childish messages on this message board. Did you lie about your age? Do you've some degree of autism or learning disability we need to know about? If you're 12 or 15, it's OK, that's what 12 to 15 years olds do. However if you really are 51, c'mom man, upgrade your conversation to the adult level. Then again maybe you're a troll and just can't help yourself.

Honoring Earl 34
07-14-2014, 10:36 AM
I always try to take into account that posters here could be 12-15 years old. If I didn't know better I would assume that would apply to you by the content of posts. Dadgum man, you're 51 years old and your comments are some of the most childish messages on this message board. Did you lie about your age? Do you've some degree of autism or learning disability we need to know about? If you're 12 or 15, it's OK, that's what 12 to 15 years olds do. However if you really are 51, c'mom man, upgrade your conversation to the adult level. Then again maybe you're a troll and just can't help yourself.

Why ... this is a football message board . If you want to get all serious and stuff go to Al Jazeera . l find it amusing when folks come on said message board to push an agenda . We don't care . This board is something to fill a void between football related events and get info on player health and such .

We talk football in a light hearted manner because at the end of the day , with the Texans , we know what we have . We dont need you and the rat being captain obvious and his sidekick plain asday .

so with that , party on Garth .

Hervoyel
07-14-2014, 10:42 AM
The only downside I've found to putting people you don't want to read on ignore is that the worst of them are constantly getting quoted by other posters. They're just good at trolling people which is probably why you put them on ignore in the first place.

So far I haven't found any way around that.

Having said that I wouldn't even know Texian or Lord Bills existed if you people would quite gobbling up the bait.

http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc272/Hervoyel/untitled_zps43895674.png

Texian
07-14-2014, 10:43 AM
Why ... this is a football message board . If you want to get all serious and stuff go to Al Jazeera . l find it amusing when folks come on said message board to push an agenda . We don't care . This board is something to fill a void between football related events and get info on player health and such .

We talk football in a light hearted manner because at the end of the day , with the Texans , we know what we have . We dont need you and the rat being captain obvious and his sidekick plain asday .

so with that , party on Garth .

and a place where a 51 year old can come act act like a 12 year old....

Honoring Earl 34
07-14-2014, 10:57 AM
and a place where a 51 year old can come act act like a 12 year old....

Exactly .

steelbtexan
07-14-2014, 11:10 AM
This board is mostly a bunch of inside the box group thinking kool aid drinkers who become highly agitated with any comments that doesn't agree with the consensus group think and/or any comments that can be construed as any disagreement with the folks working over on Kirby Dr.

My problem is if you disagree with how business is run on Kirby you're a hater. (Looking at you Marcus.) Meanwhile the Texans were 2-14 and has 1-1 in the draft AGAIN. I cant believe some posters were OK with status quo after last season, really since 2010.

htownfan32
07-14-2014, 11:20 AM
I'm gonna side with Herv on this one. Quit biting, y'all.


http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/583/044/d98.jpg

infantrycak
07-14-2014, 11:32 AM
My problem is if you disagree with how business is run on Kirby you're a hater. (Looking at you Marcus.) Meanwhile the Texans were 2-14 and has 1-1 in the draft AGAIN. I cant believe some posters were OK with status quo after last season, really since 2010.

My problem is people portraying themselves as martyrs. There are folks here with every opinion around (exactly the opposite of what Texian alleged). Many of the issues discussed are very two sided and those on one side get labeled haters and those on the other get labeled homers. Fact is all opinions are represented and people should spend less time labeling. Texian's "I'm above all y'all simpletons" shtick is just tired, inaccurate and pathetically self-serving.

PapaL
07-14-2014, 11:34 AM
My problem is people portraying themselves as martyrs. There are folks here with every opinion around (exactly the opposite of what Texian alleged). Many of the issues discussed are very two sided and those on one side get labeled haters and those on the other get labeled homers. Fact is all opinions are represented and people should spend less time labeling. Texian's "I'm above all y'all simpletons" shtick is just tired, inaccurate and pathetically self-serving.

MSR

Well said.

badboy
07-14-2014, 11:38 AM
How about those Astros?

Texian
07-14-2014, 11:42 AM
My problem is if you disagree with how business is run on Kirby you're a hater. (Looking at you Marcus.) Meanwhile the Texans were 2-14 and has 1-1 in the draft AGAIN. I cant believe some posters were OK with status quo after last season, really since 2010.

Yep, and the haters are still right and the sheep are still sheep. Kool Aid drinking sheep.

Texian
07-14-2014, 11:46 AM
My problem is people portraying themselves as martyrs. There are folks here with every opinion around (exactly the opposite of what Texian alleged). Many of the issues discussed are very two sided and those on one side get labeled haters and those on the other get labeled homers. Fact is all opinions are represented and people should spend less time labeling. Texian's "I'm above all y'all simpletons" shtick is just tired, inaccurate and pathetically self-serving.

Some folks can handle the the truth and some folks can't. I've been saying 2013 was well on the way since 2010. 2014 will be more of the same. Go somewhere else if you need someone to blow Texans smoke up your hiney.

Texian
07-14-2014, 11:50 AM
Texian's "I'm above all y'all simpletons" shtick is just tired, inaccurate and pathetically self-serving.

The fact that I make you feel like a simpleton is your problem not mine.

infantrycak
07-14-2014, 11:53 AM
Some folks can handle the the truth and some folks can't. I've been saying 2013 was well on the way since 2010. 2014 will be more of the same. Go somewhere else if you need someone to blow Texans smoke up your hiney.

You're like a chick wanting to know if a skirt makes her ass look fat.

Sorry honey, it isn't your views (skirt) that make your ass look fat.

Hervoyel
07-14-2014, 11:54 AM
My problem is people portraying themselves as martyrs. There are folks here with every opinion around (exactly the opposite of what Texian alleged). Many of the issues discussed are very two sided and those on one side get labeled haters and those on the other get labeled homers. Fact is all opinions are represented and people should spend less time labeling. Texian's "I'm above all y'all simpletons" shtick is just tired, inaccurate and pathetically self-serving.

MSR as well.

Honoring Earl 34
07-14-2014, 11:54 AM
Some folks can handle the the truth and some folks can't. I've been saying 2013 was well on the way since 2010. 2014 will be more of the same. Go somewhere else if you need someone to blow Texans smoke up your hiney.

The Texans peeked in 2011 and started the fall after losing to Baltimore . They lost Jacoby , Demeco , Winston , Briesel , Dreesen , Mario , and others . Kubiak and crew had run it's course by then and the were on the decline . That was obvious in 2010 but Bob is a patient man . We all know this . It was on this board , on the radio , newspaper , everywhere .

Texian
07-14-2014, 12:13 PM
Bob is a patient man . We all know this .

Bob is Jerah Jones, just not as public. Ladies and Gentlemen, a picture is worth a 1000 words.

http://bloggingthebeast.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/Houston-war-room.png

Texian
07-14-2014, 12:14 PM
You're like a chick wanting to know if a skirt makes her ass look fat.

Sorry honey, it isn't your views (skirt) that make your ass look fat.

Clearly this comment is a result of your minimum wage mentality. (you said I made you feel like a simpleton, only trying to explain why that might be.)

CloakNNNdagger
07-14-2014, 12:25 PM
MSR

Well said.

MSR as well.

Got him for you.

Mr teX
07-14-2014, 12:31 PM
Some folks can handle the the truth and some folks can't. I've been saying 2013 was well on the way since 2010. 2014 will be more of the same. Go somewhere else if you need someone to blow Texans smoke up your hiney.



Even a stopped clock is right 2 times a day. Most people knowledgeable about the NFL and the team in general could've "called" that...especially if said team didn't have a top 5 qb & was coming off an all-time worst defensive performance & a 6-10 record.

Doesn't make you any more in the know or right about what you said than someone who predicted we'd go to the playoffs the next 2 years after 2010.

The fact that you're trying to pat yourself on the back for what you "called" is that arrogant crap that I-cak was talking about.

Texian
07-14-2014, 12:42 PM
No doubt, Bob McNair is the absolute best owner in all of sports. McNair hiring Bill O'Brien, hired the best coach in the NFL, a real Vince Lombardi, O'Brien is. Not to mention that O'Brien is the #1 QB Guru in all of football. The Texans will now win 3 Super Bowls in the next 5 years. The Texans will be the best Dynasty ever to play in the NFL. Savage and Clowney are future HOF in waiting.

Better?

EllisUnit
07-14-2014, 12:45 PM
No doubt, Bob McNair is the absolute best owner in all of sports. McNair hiring Bill O'Brien, hired the best coach in the NFL, a real Vince Lombardi, O'Brien is. Not to mention that O'Brien is the #1 QB Guru in all of football. The Texans will now win 3 Super Bowls in the next 5 years. The Texans will be the best Dynasty ever to play in the NFL. Savage and Clowney are future HOF in waiting.

Better?

i like your sarcastic positive outlook in which you don't mean even one part of.

Texian
07-14-2014, 12:46 PM
Even a stopped clock is right 2 times a day. Most people knowledgeable about the NFL and the team in general could've "called" that...especially if said team didn't have a top 5 qb & was coming off an all-time worst defensive performance & a 6-10 record.

Doesn't make you any more in the know or right about what you said than someone who predicted we'd go to the playoffs the next 2 years after 2010.

The fact that you're trying to pat yourself on the back for what you "called" is that arrogant crap that I-cak was talking about.

Then why were there 99 out of 100 telling me how wrong I was and I was nothing but a hater? a troll? No Sir, when I was explaining the evils of Salary Cap Hell and it's eventual results I was being told by most that the Texans would be Super Bowl Champions in 2012 and 2013.

OzzO
07-14-2014, 12:50 PM
http://hearinghealthmatters.org/dizzinessdepot/files/2013/10/snickers-100x64.jpg

'cause you don't post like yourself when you're hungry.

Honoring Earl 34
07-14-2014, 12:54 PM
Then why were there 99 out of 100 telling me how wrong I was and I was nothing but a hater? a troll? No Sir, when I was explaining the evils of Salary Cap Hell and it's eventual results I was being told by most that the Texans would be Super Bowl Champions in 2012 and 2013.

The pessimist is never disappointed .

GNTLEWOLF
07-14-2014, 12:55 PM
My problem is people portraying themselves as martyrs. There are folks here with every opinion around (exactly the opposite of what Texian alleged). Many of the issues discussed are very two sided and those on one side get labeled haters and those on the other get labeled homers. Fact is all opinions are represented and people should spend less time labeling. Texian's "I'm above all y'all simpletons" shtick is just tired, inaccurate and pathetically self-serving.

WOW! I agree with you. That's rare. Rep:perfect10:

EllisUnit
07-14-2014, 12:57 PM
Then why were there 99 out of 100 telling me how wrong I was and I was nothing but a hater? a troll? No Sir, when I was explaining the evils of Salary Cap Hell and it's eventual results I was being told by most that the Texans would be Super Bowl Champions in 2012 and 2013.

We had the talent to win it all in 2011 and 2012. And what eventual result came from "cap hell" because honestly the cap has not hurt us to bad. All the players we let go were way over paid. Quin, Barwin got way more money than they should of and then they didnt do much with their new teams. Thats really the only loses we have had to note.

Texian
07-14-2014, 12:57 PM
i like your sarcastic positive outlook in which you don't mean even one part of.

It's my Barack Obama version of fundamentally transforming and the remaking of the Houston Texans. I Hope you like the Change.

Texian
07-14-2014, 01:06 PM
The pessimist is never disappointed .

No, it was simple arithmetic. When you spend more than you're allowed in a given year, and do it year after year, and your competition doesn't, you can't remain competitive. It's really is that simple. Except the sheep didn't want to hear or acknowledge the truth. Sheep don't do that! We're haters they say! Then the sheep resort name calling and hurling insults.

Honoring Earl 34
07-14-2014, 01:13 PM
No, it was simple arithmetic. When you spend more than you're allowed in a given year, and do it year after year, and your competition doesn't, you can't remain competitive. It's really is that simple. Except the sheep didn't want to hear or acknowledge the truth. Sheep don't do that! We're haters they say!

No ... once again we all knew they were in deep poo but what are we gonna do except hope for the best . We knew they screwed the cap pooch and they were going to lose players . They hit the daily double when they missed badly on the backups evaluations .

Nobody wants to hear your teams deficiencies in July because every bodies team is going to the Superbowl in July . :overreact:

Mr teX
07-14-2014, 01:24 PM
Then why were there 99 out of 100 telling me how wrong I was and I was nothing but a hater? a troll? No Sir, when I was explaining the evils of Salary Cap Hell and it's eventual results I was being told by most that the Texans would be Super Bowl Champions in 2012 and 2013.

stop exagerating. I'm sure there probably were a few here who did everything you're saying, far from the majority though. Furthermore, the salary cap wasn't really what did them in the end. terrible coaching and qb play...defense towards the end of it all. Yes, Schaub's extension was problematic & shouldn't have been given but...you also have to factor in that Schaub was coming off a pro bowl year & overall, the people we lost b/c we couldn't afford them for 1 reason or another or bad contracts is overstated.

we lost maybe 2 guys that were impact players and deserving of the money they asked for b/c we were up against it......Glover Quinn....and some people would say Leach. Other than that...

Texian
07-14-2014, 01:39 PM
stop exagerating. I'm sure there probably were a few here who did everything you're saying, far from the majority though. Furthermore, the salary cap wasn't really what did them in the end. terrible coaching and qb play...defense towards the end of it all. Yes, Schaub's extension was problematic & shouldn't have been given but...you also have to factor in that Schaub was coming off a pro bowl year & overall, the people we lost b/c we couldn't afford them for 1 reason or another or bad contracts is overstated.

we lost maybe 2 guys that were impact players and deserving of the money they asked for b/c we were up against it......Glover Quinn....and some people would say Leach. Other than that...

using a lot of ifs, ands or buts to clarify your statements and make your point. The Bottom Line: Texans lost more good players as a direct result of the salary cap than they could replace. All the while the competition was replacing lost players with equal or even better players. It's that simple!

Texian
07-14-2014, 01:40 PM
No ... once again we all knew they were in deep poo but what are we gonna do except hope for the best . We knew they screwed the cap pooch and they were going to lose players . They hit the daily double when they missed badly on the backups evaluations .

Nobody wants to hear your teams deficiencies in July because every bodies team is going to the Superbowl in July . :overreact:

hindsight is a beautiful thing, most of y'all didn't figure it out until the second half of last season. The beginning of the 2011, 2012, and 2013 seasons everyone was going to the Super Bowl.

Texian
07-14-2014, 01:50 PM
More Bottom Line: The Colts and the Jags have replaced all their lost players with much better players than those they lost. The Texans have not and can not. The Texans have actually taken several steps backwards. Truth Alert! Hater Alert!.

Vance87
07-14-2014, 01:53 PM
More Bottom Line: The Colts and the Jags have replaced all their lost players with much better players than those they lost. The Texans have not and can not. The Texans have actually taken several steps backwards. Truth Alert! Hater Alert!.

I think you say that same exact thing every offseason.

Mr teX
07-14-2014, 01:54 PM
using a lot of ifs, ands or buts to clarify your statements and make your point. The Bottom Line: Texans lost more good players as a direct result of the salary cap than they could replace. All the while the competition was replacing lost players with equal or even better players. It's that simple!

WTF are you talking about? Noone we lost can be considered a good player except for Mario, Leach and Quinn...those are facts. & even if we weren't in salary cap hell, we weren't paying Mario 100 million to keep him here....he damn sure wasn't deserving of it either.

anyone else that was a cap casualty for 1 reason or another wasn't an impact player....That fact is further backed up by our better record in the regular season and playoff appearance the year after 2011.

Schaub's contract extension was the only contract that was a bit shaky and definitely shouldn't have been given..That's 1 contract.

The funny thing is...(or not so funny depending on your outlook) he might very well still be here for the last year of his contract if he didn't fail so epically last year...

Texian
07-14-2014, 02:13 PM
I think you say that same exact thing every offseason.

I did/do because it was true.

WTF are you talking about? Noone we lost can be considered a good player except for Mario, Leach and Quinn...those are facts. & even if we weren't in salary cap hell, we weren't paying Mario 100 million to keep him here....he damn sure wasn't deserving of it either.

anyone else that was a cap casualty for 1 reason or another wasn't an impact player....That fact is further backed up by our better record in the regular season and playoff appearance the year after 2011.

Schaub's contract extension was the only contract that was a bit shaky and definitely shouldn't have been given..That's 1 contract.

The funny thing is...(or not so funny depending on your outlook) he might very well still be here for the last year of his contract if he didn't fail so epically last year...

The point that you are missing is regardless of who the Texans lost to free agency, they never had the salary cap space to replace any of those lost players with equal or better talent. The process was always replacing a lost player with a lesser talent or value because that's all they could afford. The Texans had to take steps backwards much like they've done in 2014. People don't understand that the Texans for 3 consecutive years didn't have enough salary cap room to pay for a full 53 man roster.

Honoring Earl 34
07-14-2014, 02:22 PM
hindsight is a beautiful thing, most of y'all didn't figure it out until the second half of last season. The beginning of the 2011, 2012, and 2013 seasons everyone was going to the Super Bowl.

I think most Texans fans realized they were in trouble after the lettermans jacket game .

Troy Chapman
07-14-2014, 02:26 PM
I did because it was true.



The point that you are missing is regardless of who the Texans lost to free agency, they never had the salary cap space to replace any of those lost players with equal or better talent. The process was always replacing a lost player with a lesser talent or value because that's all they could afford. The Texans had to take steps backwards much like they've done in 2014. People don't understand that the Texans for 3 consecutive years didn't have enough salary cap room to pay for a full 53 man roster.

Can you provide examples of players lost that Houston did not replace with comparable value? Just curious. I have my own thoughts towards this specific question but curious on yours.

Honoring Earl 34
07-14-2014, 02:26 PM
I did because it was true.



The point that you are missing is regardless of who the Texans lost to free agency, they never had the salary cap space to replace any of those lost players with equal or better talent. The process was always replacing a lost player with a lesser talent or value because that's all they could afford. The Texans had to take steps backwards much like they've done in 2014. People don't understand that the Texans for 3 consecutive years didn't have enough salary cap room to pay for a full 53 man roster.

It's been stated before that the 49ers had 31 players make over a million and the Texans had 16 . It's also been stated that your special teams are an indicator of team talent .

You could say the Texans were way to loyal to home grown players like Keo and Sharpton who were small but made up for it in lack of speed .

HOU-TEX
07-14-2014, 02:28 PM
Good trade...

EllisUnit
07-14-2014, 02:37 PM
I did because it was true.



The point that you are missing is regardless of who the Texans lost to free agency, they never had the salary cap space to replace any of those lost players with equal or better talent. The process was always replacing a lost player with a lesser talent or value because that's all they could afford. The Texans had to take steps backwards much like they've done in 2014. People don't understand that the Texans for 3 consecutive years didn't have enough salary cap room to pay for a full 53 man roster.

You cant really say we have taken a step bacwards until you see the product on the field. The patriots for example a lot of times have a bunch of scrubs and still find more success than other teams filled with money whoring superstars.

I for one think we will be greatly improved this season. Because we have made "upgrades" No we didnt spend big money on any FAs, we did however get what i believe to be better on the o-line, dline, and the LB core.

How about we wait and see what the group looks like in 2014 before we call them the worst fielded team in the history of the NFL.

steelbtexan
07-14-2014, 02:50 PM
No ... once again we all knew they were in deep poo but what are we gonna do except hope for the best . We knew they screwed the cap pooch and they were going to lose players . They hit the daily double when they missed badly on the backups evaluations .

Nobody wants to hear your teams deficiencies in July because every bodies team is going to the Superbowl in July . :overreact:

Agreed,

But if you looked at things like Doc told us, Schaub/Foster's injury history, coupled with FA losses, with Kubiak leading the troops, the realist in you had to know that last yrs Texans team was not a SB contender. Particularly with last yrs schedule. What I didn't like was expressing my opinion and being labeled a hater. In fact some (Looking at you Marcus) still say I am a hater. That's the farthest from the truth. I'm one of the biggest Texans fans out there. I never miss a game and travel with the team once a yr. You should check out my game room. All Texans gear, including the red and blue pool table. But because I'm a realist I'm a hater. That's what gets me.

NOT that I'm taking up for Texian or that he needs to be taken up for. People may not like his opinions, Heck I don't like some of them. But he does throw himself out there as in the Bortles case. Which should be interesting to see if he was right. Anyway it makes for a more interesting MB. IMHO

Honoring Earl 34
07-14-2014, 03:01 PM
Agreed,

But if you looked at things like Doc told us, Schaub/Foster's injury history, coupled with FA losses, with Kubiak leading the troops, the realist in you had to know that last yrs Texans team was not a SB contender. Particularly with last yrs schedule. What I didn't like was expressing my opinion and being labeled a hater. In fact some (Looking at you Marcus) still say I am a hater. That's the farthest from the truth. I'm one of the biggest Texans fans out there. I never miss a game and travel with the team once a yr. You should check out my game room. All Texans gear, including the red and blue pool table. But because I'm a realist I'm a hater. That's what gets me.

NOT that I'm taking up for Texian or that he needs to be taken up for. People may not like his opinions, Heck I don't like some of them. But he does throw himself out there as in the Bortles case. Which should be interesting to see if he was right. Anyway it makes for a more interesting MB. IMHO

I look at things two different ways .

In 2012 I hoped the Texans win the Superbowl but I'd bet they wouldn't . Just didn't see the killer instinct . This year I hope they go 8-8 but if I had to put money on it ..... Having said that , what I want to see is smarter more physical team .

Mr teX
07-14-2014, 03:01 PM
I did because it was true.



The point that you are missing is regardless of who the Texans lost to free agency, they never had the salary cap space to replace any of those lost players with equal or better talent. The process was always replacing a lost player with a lesser talent or value because that's all they could afford. The Texans had to take steps backwards much like they've done in 2014. People don't understand that the Texans for 3 consecutive years didn't have enough salary cap room to pay for a full 53 man roster.

You're flat out overstating your case.....

Jacoby Jones - Posey/Hopkins = upgrade in the long run.

Briesel - Wade Smith = adequate replacement at the time.

Dunta Robinson - Kjax/Jonathan Joseph = adequate replacement/upgrade at the time/long run.

Barwin -Reed = adequate replacement considering what Barwin was giving us compared to what Reed did his rookie year.

Mario - Mercilus- downgrade at the time/ still pending

Quinn - Keo/Swearinger - downgrade...upgrade/adequate replacement in the long run

Leach - whoever - downgrade.

The last 3 are the only 3 that really effected us...1 of those there was no way we were going to keep him no matter what.

steelbtexan
07-14-2014, 03:12 PM
I did because it was true.



The point that you are missing is regardless of who the Texans lost to free agency, they never had the salary cap space to replace any of those lost players with equal or better talent. The process was always replacing a lost player with a lesser talent or value because that's all they could afford. The Texans had to take steps backwards much like they've done in 2014. People don't understand that the Texans for 3 consecutive years didn't have enough salary cap room to pay for a full 53 man roster.

Why does Rick Smith still have a job?

steelbtexan
07-14-2014, 03:16 PM
I look at things two different ways .

In 2012 I hoped the Texans win the Superbowl but I'd bet they wouldn't . Just didn't see the killer instinct . This year I hope they go 8-8 but if I had to put money on it ..... Having said that , what I want to see is smarter more physical team .

We're on the same page. I would consider if the things that you mentioned in your post happened that the season would be a success. If Savage turned out to be the QB of the future that would be gravy.

Texian
07-14-2014, 03:32 PM
Can you provide examples of players lost that Houston did not replace with comparable value? Just curious. I have my own thoughts towards this specific question but curious on yours.

You're flat out overstating your case.....

Jacoby Jones - Posey/Hopkins = upgrade in the long run.

Briesel - Wade Smith = adequate replacement at the time.

Dunta Robinson - Kjax/Jonathan Joseph = adequate replacement/upgrade at the time/long run.

Barwin -Reed = adequate replacement considering what Barwin was giving us compared to what Reed did his rookie year.

Mario - Mercilus- downgrade at the time/ still pending

Quinn - Keo/Swearinger - downgrade...upgrade/adequate replacement in the long run

Leach - whoever - downgrade.

The last 3 are the only 3 that really effected us...1 of those there was no way we were going to keep him no matter what.

Instead of debating with me do this simple exercise and see for yourself. Make a list of Texans players lost in years 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014. Now make a list of the players that were signed to replace those respective lost players in each of those years.

Now make the same list for the Colts in years 2012, 2013 and 2014 and the same list for the Jaguars in 2014.

Compare the list. If you're drinking Kool Aid then you're only likely to see that the Texans are far superior in every category and every comparison. If you can put the kool aid down for a moment and are capable of making an objective analysis, then your findings will be completely different.

You'll likely find that the 2011 Texans were the best team (bought and paid for) and the 2012 team was worse than the 2011 team and the 2013 team was worse than the 2012 team and the 2014 team will be worse than the 2013 team.

You'll notice from the Colts list that the 2012 Colts team was much better than the 2011 Colts team and 2013 Colts team was much better than 2012 team and the 2014 Colts team is much better than the 2013 team.

From the Jaguar list you'll notice 2014 is a much much better team than their 2013 team.

The common denominator is the Colts and Jaguars cleaned house, dumped all bad contracts and made their salary cap work for the betterment of the team instead of against them. In each case with each list, w/o kool aid, it is easy to see where the Colts and Jags are taking BIG steps forward and how the Texans have consistently taken steps backwards each of these last 3 years. It doesn't take long to find the cellar with a few consistent years of negative yardage.

Texian
07-14-2014, 03:38 PM
Why does Rick Smith still have a job?

Because Bob McNair is the actual real GM and Rick is his assistant. Rick sees to it that what McNair wants and needs gets done. And Rick does what Bob doesn't necessarily want to do. Bob likes it that way. In essence Rick Smith is not responsible for many of the Texans failures (in Bob's eyes anyways). That's why Rick has a job.

Troy Chapman
07-14-2014, 03:45 PM
Instead of debating with me do this simple exercise and see for yourself. Make a list of Texans players lost in years 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014. Now make a list of the players that were signed to replace those respective lost players in each of those years.

Now make the same list for the Colts in years 2012, 2013 and 2014 and the same list for the Jaguars in 2014.

Compare the list. If you're drinking Kool Aid then you're only likely to see that the Texans are far superior in every category and every comparison. If you can put the kool aid down for a moment and are capable of making an objective analysis, then your findings will be completely different.

You'll likely find that the 2011 Texans were the best team (bought and paid for) and the 2012 team was worse than the 2011 team and the 2013 team was worse than the 2012 team and the 2014 team will be worse than the 2013 team.

You'll notice from the Colts list that the 2012 Colts team was much better than the 2011 Colts team and 2013 Colts team was much better than 2012 team and the 2014 Colts team is much better than the 2013 team.

From the Jaguar list you'll notice 2014 is a much much better team than their 2013 team.

The common denominator is the Colts and Jaguars cleaned house, dumped all bad contracts and made their salary cap work for the betterment of the team instead of against them. In each case with each list, w/o kool aid, it is easy to see where the Colts and Jags are taking BIG steps forward and how the Texans have consistently taken steps backwards each of these last 3 years. It doesn't take long to find the cellar with a few consistent years of negative yardage.


Houston bought and paid for a team in 2011.

2011 and 2012 were very good seasons. 2013 just came off the rails. This offseason they cleared the books for 2015. And your judging before 2014 & 2015 seasons happen, especially with a possibly huge cap space to work with in 2015.

How is this different than what the Colts did after they released Manning? They cleared the books and got the #1 pick. And have been filling in their roster with the extra cap space each season.

Houston paid for some free agents in 2011 and 2013...didn't work out...so they are now moving on. They have cleared the books just like Indy did a few years ago.

The 2014 draft was a great step in the right direction. The real test will be what is done in the offseason after the 2014 season. I'm not saying Houston will do what Indy did after their 2-14 season and go 10-6 the following season. But the Texans are correcting for their past cap issues. The way I see it, most teams have to do this every so often. Houston just had some bad timing with the new CBA and rookie wage scale.

And I disagree, I don't think the 2014 team will be worse than the 2013 team. The team hit rock bottom, and is starting the see the light.

Mr teX
07-14-2014, 03:59 PM
Instead of debating with me do this simple exercise and see for yourself. Make a list of Texans players lost in years 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014. Now make a list of the players that were signed to replace those respective lost players in each of those years.

Now make the same list for the Colts in years 2012, 2013 and 2014 and the same list for the Jaguars in 2014.

Compare the list. If you're drinking Kool Aid then you're only likely to see that the Texans are far superior in every category and every comparison. If you can put the kool aid down for a moment and are capable of making an objective analysis, then your findings will be completely different.

You'll likely find that the 2011 Texans were the best team (bought and paid for) and the 2012 team was worse than the 2011 team and the 2013 team was worse than the 2012 team and the 2014 team will be worse than the 2013 team.

You'll notice from the Colts list that the 2012 Colts team was much better than the 2011 Colts team and 2013 Colts team was much better than 2012 team and the 2014 Colts team is much better than the 2013 team.

From the Jaguar list you'll notice 2014 is a much much better team than their 2013 team.

The common denominator is the Colts and Jaguars cleaned house, dumped all bad contracts and made their salary cap work for the betterment of the team instead of against them. In each case with each list, w/o kool aid, it is easy to see where the Colts and Jags are taking BIG steps forward and how the Texans have consistently taken steps backwards each of these last 3 years. It doesn't take long to find the cellar with a few consistent years of negative yardage.

Lol & you accuse me of being a kool-aid drinker? You wanna know what else those teams have in common? They both bottomed out....they both changed coaches and qbs.....pretty much like we did this past year.

The colts were terrible in 2011 & had Andrew Luck fall in their lap...Only after Manning & Irsay both agreed to move on from each other. If Manning's prognosis was even a little bit better, They probably still draft luck as the heir apparent, but more importantly, he stays and the money he was owed is still on the books and they too likely still have cap issues. The jags have been terrible for years and it still remains to be seen what's gonna happen with them..despite how rosey of a picture you're painting.

So it was more than just their handling of the cap....It was a bit of luck...literally and the variables i listed above.

Apart from that, there's lots of assumptions in all of what you wrote that i don't really even wanna touch...Can't see how you can emphatically say the 2011 team was better than the 2012 team...especially when you take into account all the variables. There chance to reach a SB probably was better, but that had more to do with the schedule and how everything fell that year than the team's talent. The 2012 team as a matter of fact borne out by their regular season record was at least as good or better.

Furthermore, your exercise is silly b/c what the Colts and Jags did has little to do with what we did.

Texian
07-14-2014, 04:02 PM
Houston bought and paid for a team in 2011.

2011 and 2012 were very good seasons. 2013 just came off the rails. This offseason they cleared the books for 2015. And your judging before 2014 & 2015 seasons happen, especially with a possibly huge cap space to work with in 2015. Like I said 11' was their best team and w/ each successive year they declined.

How is this different than what the Colts did after they released Manning? They cleared the books and got the #1 pick. And have been filling in their roster with the extra cap space each season. The difference is the Colts had $40 mil to spend 2013 and $30 mil to spend in 2014 and the Texans were broke in 2013 and have $8 mil in 2014. A BIG difference of $60 mil + I'd say, that's a lot of good players DIFFERENCE.

Houston paid for some free agents in 2011 and 2013...didn't work out...so they are now moving on. They have cleared the books just like Indy did a few years ago. No they haven't Jags had over $40+ mil to spend. Unless Texans get rid of AJ's contract and Foster's $8 mil+ per year contract Texans aren't in same ball park.

The 2014 draft was a great step in the right direction. The real test will be what is done in the offseason after the 2014 season.

Troy you're drinking kool aid, it has obstructed your objectivity view. You didn't do the simple exercise I requested, not enough time to complete. Answers above BOLD Please put the kool aid down and complete the exercise.

Troy Chapman
07-14-2014, 04:15 PM
Troy you're drinking kool aid, it has obstructed your objectivity view. You didn't do the simple exercise I requested, not enough time to complete. Answers above BOLD Please put the kool aid down and complete the exercise.

I already had my thoughts on such a list, which is why I asked you. If you didn't want to answer the question, then just say so. It's not going to hurt my feelings. I was just curious what your thoughts were to list some examples. But you replied back with your own request.

My post: Can you provide examples of players lost that Houston did not replace with comparable value? Just curious. I have my own thoughts towards this specific question but curious on yours.

You mention the amount of cap space that Indy had in 2013 and 2014...but you failed to mention 2012. The Colts carried $38 million dollars in dead money in 2012; which is the same move Houston is doing this year with almost $18 million in dead money for 2014. The 2015 cap space for Houston is projected to be similar to what Indy had in 2013 if not more.

Houston cannot clear the books and have cap space in one off-season. Indy didn't do that either, they had no cap space in 2012, just like Houston this year.

I would go as far to say the 2012 team was just as good as the 2011 team. The win/loss record can speak to that.

No koolaid here sir, I didn't call you a hater so please don't label me as a kool-aid drinker. If (big if I know) Savage pans out in 2015. You're looking at a team with a good QB making very little money and a ton of cap space to spend on other positions. Similar to what Indy, SF, and Seattle has done.

Texian
07-14-2014, 04:15 PM
Lol & you accuse me of being a kool-aid drinker? You wanna know what else those teams have in common? They both bottomed out....they both changed coaches and qbs.....pretty much like we did this past year.

The colts were terrible in 2011 & had Andrew Luck fall in their lap...Only after Manning & Irsay both agreed to move on from each other. If Manning's prognosis was even a little bit better, They probably still draft luck as the heir apparent, but more importantly, he stays and the money he was owed is still on the books and they too likely still have cap issues. The jags have been terrible for years and it still remains to be seen what's gonna happen with them..despite how rosey of a picture you're painting.

So it was more than just their handling of the cap....It was a bit of luck...literally and the variables i listed above.

Apart from that, there's lots of assumptions in all of what you wrote that i don't really even wanna touch...Can't see how you can emphatically say the 2011 team was better than the 2012 team...especially when you take into account all the variables. There chance to reach a SB probably was better, but that had more to do with the schedule and how everything fell that year than the team's talent. The 2012 team as a matter of fact borne out by their regular season record was at least as good or better.

Furthermore, your exercise is silly b/c what the Colts and Jags did has little to do with what we did.

You didn't have time to do the exercise either, that only tells me one thing, in your mind, the Texans are Superior in every category (no comparison because you didn't do one). Like I said before (please re read if you didn't understand the first time), the Colts and the Jags, cleaned house (fired GM & HC, Jags also hired a new team Pres.), dumped all bad contracts and reorganized their salary cap to a friendly status. The Texans did not clean house, they just fired their head coach, everything else is status quo. The Texans did nothing to provide any salary cap relief w/ exception of jettisoning Schaub and their cap is somewhat still working against them. If you want to play the game, do the exercise and then we can talk further. The one bright possibility about the Texans future is for the first time in many years they may not have to borrow money from future years to pay for this year.

infantrycak
07-14-2014, 04:19 PM
The difference is the Colts had $40 mil to spend 2013 and $30 mil to spend in 2014 and the Texans were broke in 2013 and have $8 mil in 2014. A BIG difference of $60 mil + I'd say, that's a lot of good players DIFFERENCE.

No they haven't Jags had over $40+ mil to spend. Unless Texans get rid of AJ's contract and Foster's $8 mil+ per year contract Texans aren't in same ball park.

The main problem with this analysis is it assumes an even starting point and that is factually incorrect. OK the Colts had $60 mil to spend (which they didn't really as you continually overlook the cost of re-signing a team's own FAs) but they spent much of that on getting up to where the Texans were already.

In these discussions you also commonly point to teams with QBs on rookie contracts and that is not apples to apples.

Texian
07-14-2014, 04:39 PM
I already had my thoughts on such a list, which is why I asked you. If you didn't want to answer the question, then just say so. It's not going to hurt my feelings. I was just curious what your thoughts were to list some examples. But you replied back with your own request.

My post:

You mention the amount of cap space that Indy had in 2013 and 2014...but you failed to mention 2012. The Colts carried $38 million dollars in dead money in 2012; which is the same move Houston is doing this year with almost $18 million in dead money for 2014. The 2015 cap space for Houston is projected to be similar to what Indy had in 2013 if not more.

Houston cannot clear the books and have cap space in one off-season. Indy didn't do that, neither did Jacksonville.

I would go as far to say the 2012 team was just as good as the 2011 team. The win/loss record can speak to that.

No koolaid here sir, I didn't call you a hater so please don't label me as a kool-aid drinker. If (big if I know) Savage pans out in 2015. You're looking at a team with a good QB making very little money and a ton of cap space to spend on other positions. Similar to what Indy, SF, and Seattle has done.

Houston is less than 50% of Colts 2012 dead money, not really a fair or equal comparison in my book. Texans got some relief from an increased cap Colts did not. The Colts and Jags decided to clean their house and by clean house they really cleaned house, not just dust the furniture much like Texans are doing. If the Texans were to really clean house, AJ and Foster would have been gone before June 1. This way the Texans would've taken their medicine, exorcised all their demons and evils of the past, sacrificed in 2014. Then and only then, an extremely friendly salary cap would await them in 2015 to start rebuilding. As it stands now, currently, the Colts and the Jags, both, have considerably more salary cap space than the Texans to start the 2015 season. So you see, the picture is not nearly as rosy as the one you're trying to paint.

Troy Chapman
07-14-2014, 04:41 PM
Houston is less than 50% of Colts 2012 dead money, not really a fair or equal comparison in my book. Texans got some relief from an increased cap Colts did not. The Colts and Jags decided to clean their house and by clean house they really cleaned house, not just dust the furniture much like Texans are doing. If the Texans were to really clean house, AJ and Foster would have been gone before June 1. This way the Texans would've taken their medicine, exorcised all their demons and evils of the past, sacrificed in 2014. Then and only then, an extremely friendly salary cap would await them in 2015 to start rebuilding. As it stands now, currently, the Colts and the Jags, both, have considerably more salary cap space than the Texans to start the 2015 season. So you see, the picture is not nearly as rosy as the one you're trying to paint.

And I don't think it is as bad as you have painted either. While the 2015 offseason cap situation may not be "extreme friendly", it will be friendly. Much more friendly than the past few years at least. Houston will start to see the benefits of the rookie wage scale going forward. Indy will also have 32 free agents to replace in 2015 compared to Houston's 20. And could gain even more with release of Johnson, Foster, and Joseph after the 2014 season; with their potential replacements already on the roster. Houston's cap situation is trending up fast after this year no matter how you look at it.

Texian
07-14-2014, 04:43 PM
The main problem with this analysis is it assumes an even starting point and that is factually incorrect. OK the Colts had $60 mil to spend (which they didn't really as you continually overlook the cost of re-signing a team's own FAs) but they spent much of that on getting up to where the Texans were already.

In these discussions you also commonly point to teams with QBs on rookie contracts and that is not apples to apples.

If you're $40 million under the cap, you've $40 million to spend on signing players. It doesn't matter how you slice it, you're still $40 million under the cap. And that goes a lot further than a team that is only $3 million under the cap.

You like apples...when Freeney became a free agent the Colts realized the full $19 million salary cap hit in available salary cap space the following year. When Mario became a free agent his $18 million salary came off the Texans books yet they were only able to start the 2012 season $3 million under the cap....how about them apples.

Texian
07-14-2014, 04:49 PM
And I don't think it is as bad as you have painted either.

It can't get much worse than a 2-14 season, picking first in the draft, staring another 2-14 season in the face, a #1 pick next year and a team with some of the worst salary cap space available for the next few years. It doesn't get much worse than that.

Troy Chapman
07-14-2014, 04:54 PM
It can't get much worse than a 2-14 season, picking first in the draft, staring another 2-14 season in the face, a #1 pick next year and a team with some of the worst salary cap space available for the next few years. It doesn't get much worse than that.

Why are you jumping to the conclusion that this is another 2-14 season team? I would be amazed if we did not win at least 6 maybe 7 games. I am not expecting this team to go 10-6 and go the playoffs, but I do expect to be better than 2-14. The cap space will be there; it won't be $60 million like Oakland, but it will be a good place to start with. I think we can both agree on that?

And sorry you quoted my post before I edited it...about 4 times :).

Texian
07-14-2014, 05:22 PM
.Can't see how you can emphatically say the 2011 team was better than the 2012 team.

Because I did the exercise, objectively. (2012 sans Winston, Ryans, Brisel, Vickers, Jones)

Texian
07-14-2014, 05:29 PM
Why are you jumping to the conclusion that this is another 2-14 season team? I would be amazed if we did not win at least 6 maybe 7 games. I am not expecting this team to go 10-6 and go the playoffs, but I do expect to be better than 2-14. The cap space will be there; it won't be $60 million like Oakland, but it will be a good place to start with. I think we can both agree on that?

And sorry you quoted my post before I edited it...about 4 times :).

From my point of view this team has not done anything to get better. To the contrary IMHO they've taken several steps backwards from the team they were last year. Then again I'm not full of hope and glimmer. I kinda of see things for the way they are and not how I want them to be. To be completely honest.

When I see the Texans have some of the worst salary cap in the league I accept it for what it is. I don't try to convince myself that it's OK and everything will be fine and manufacture excuses for why having no salary cap space is a good thing. I know when you have little or no cap space and your competition has ample, you're at a distinct disadvantage. Is what it is. There for I suffer less disappointments and I'm also more right in my thinking and analysis because of my honest straight forward thinking instead of wishing and hoping. Make sense?

The Pencil Neck
07-14-2014, 05:30 PM
Personally, I don't see anything wrong with being a Kool-aid drinker; I don't see anything wrong with trying to look on the bright side of things; I don't see anything wrong with hoping for the best.

One of the biggest and main things I always try to remember is... I have no control over what the Texans do.

I hope they make the right moves. I will try to look on the bright side of any move they make. I hope that the other teams crash and burn in epic fashions. But I don't have any power over what they do and whether it's the right thing or not.

Bob McNair owns the team. That's not changing anytime soon. I can't fire him. Bitching about him or what he does serves no purpose. On the bright side, he gave me a team I can cheer, a team that won 2 division crowns and 2 playoff games, and will hopefully do better in the future.

Rick Smith is the GM. He might not be the GM for very much longer. But that's not my decision. He's had some good drafts and he's had some stinkers, he's found some productive players in FA, and he's found some crap. Hopefully, he's given the new coaching staff something to work with and hopefully, he brought in the right coaches to get this thing turned around.

O'Brien was one of the coaches I wanted. I'm hoping he's able to get this thing going in the right direction but frankly, they could have hired Texian to be the Head Coach and I'd still be hoping he'd be able to get this thing going in the right direction. If they'd stuck with Kubiak, I would have still hoped he'd get this thing going in the right direction.

When it comes to the cap and the dead money and all that, people get way too caught up in that. The teams have a lot more wiggle room and alot more ways to create space than most us realize. The Cowboys were like $20+ million over the cap and now they have more room than we do, I think. If a team wants someone, they can find a way to pay them. The only position we needed to go after in free agency was the QB position and there weren't any good players available.

So. For me. We have this team that's going to be going to training camp in a couple of weeks. This is the starting point for a new season. I'm not expecting great things from this team because of the QB position and I don't think any of the guys in the draft or in FA would have drastically improved what we've ended up with as crappy as that is. I think we've got most of the other pieces in place to be a strong contender.

I'll be drinking the kool-aid and hoping for the best because that's what I do. And I don't see a damned thing wrong with that.

Double Barrel
07-14-2014, 05:38 PM
I always try to take into account that posters here could be 12-15 years old. If I didn't know better I would assume that would apply to you by the content of posts. Dadgum man, you're 51 years old and your comments are some of the most childish messages on this message board. Did you lie about your age? Do you've some degree of autism or learning disability we need to know about? If you're 12 or 15, it's OK, that's what 12 to 15 years olds do. However if you really are 51, c'mom man, upgrade your conversation to the adult level. Then again maybe you're a troll and just can't help yourself.

I always try to take into account that some posters here have vapid lives and fill the void by living vicariously through an entertainment medium. And I understand this mentality can warp a person's perspective to the point that things they have absolutely no control or influence over become ideals to defend and argue about because their self-worth is erroneously connected to it in their own minds.

But, I also always try to take into account that many posters here enjoy chatting about an entertainment medium like pro football, but, they realize it is completely meaningless because real life is out there where we can actually be a positive influence as good husbands, fathers, brothers, business owners, employees, etc. These folks realize this is nothing to take seriously and opinions are like sphincters in that everyone has one and they all stink.

Now, I do not know which group you fall into, but I know both of my feet are firmly in the second group. Disagreement of opinions about a meaningless entertainment is rarely a worthy reason to insult someone.

If this shit ain't fun, perhaps folks should reevaluate the point of it all. :howdy:

infantrycak
07-14-2014, 05:49 PM
If you're $40 million under the cap, you've $40 million to spend on signing players. It doesn't matter how you slice it, you're still $40 million under the cap. And that goes a lot further than a team that is only $3 million under the cap.

If one guy has a three year stockpile of groceries stored away and $10 left over and another guy has a three day supply of groceries and $100 to spend the second guy isn't a lot further just because he has more money in his pocket.

Texian
07-14-2014, 05:59 PM
they could have hired Texian to be the Head Coach and I'd still be hoping he'd be able to get this thing going in the right direction.

The Cowboys were like $20+ million over the cap and now they have more room than we do, I think. If a team wants someone, they can find a way to pay them.

I'll be drinking the kool-aid and hoping for the best because that's what I do. And I don't see a damned thing wrong with that.

Trust me, now a days, I don't know enough about the X and Os to coach a high school team but I appreciate your support. However I have owned my own successful business if that means anything. As for the Cowboys, they too had to take several steps backwards to get under the cap. My guess is their string of 3 straight 8-8 seasons is in jeopardy, as in a losing season.

It is your prerogative to drink or not drink kool aid and I won't be drinking the kool aid because that is what I do. My only and very limited advice can be found in my signature. However I know I'm better off wishing on a star. If I had paid $700 million for my NFL franchise, I could give a rats behind and could not care less who the heck Texian is.

Texian
07-14-2014, 06:18 PM
I always try to take into account that some posters here have vapid lives and fill the void by living vicariously through an entertainment medium. And I understand this mentality can warp a person's perspective to the point that things they have absolutely no control or influence over become ideals to defend and argue about because their self-worth is erroneously connected to it in their own minds.

But, I also always try to take into account that many posters here enjoy chatting about an entertainment medium like pro football, but, they realize it is completely meaningless because real life is out there where we can actually be a positive influence as good husbands, fathers, brothers, business owners, employees, etc. These folks realize this is nothing to take seriously and opinions are like sphincters in that everyone has one and they all stink.

Now, I do not know which group you fall into, but I know both of my feet are firmly in the second group. Disagreement of opinions about a meaningless entertainment is rarely a worthy reason to insult someone.

If this shit ain't fun, perhaps folks should reevaluate the point of it all. :howdy:

Without getting into all the sanctimonious bovine manure, it was one of the very few times I have ever felt compelled in insult someone on a message board. Looking back and after further review, I still feel it was deservedly so. Although it may have been insulting to 12 and 15 year olds. I guess comparison to a gnat, flea or a fly would've been more appropriate. You act as if I went infantrycak.

The Pencil Neck
07-14-2014, 06:18 PM
Trust me, now a days, I don't know enough about the X and Os to coach a high school team but I appreciate your support.

That's why I'm here.

However I have owned my own successful business if that means anything. As for the Cowboys, they too had to take several steps backwards to get under the cap. My guess is their string of 3 straight 8-8 seasons is in jeopardy, as in a losing season.

It is your prerogative to drink or not drink kool aid and I won't be drinking the kool aid because that is what I do.

I learned a long time ago not to be pessimistic about things I have no control over. I follow football not to have another source of aggravation, but as a source of entertainment. I'm entertained by studying the players, by studying the X's and O's, by figuring out what we're doing and why, and for the most part, I'm entertained by the games... although the previous two seasons were far more entertaining than last year's season.

My only and very limited advice can be found in my signature.

I don't have signatures turned on so I have no idea what's in your signature.

However I know I'm better off wishing on a star. If I had paid $700 million for my NFL franchise, I could give a rats behind and could not care less who the heck Texian is.

Exactly.

Texian
07-14-2014, 06:22 PM
I don't have signatures turned on so I have no idea what's in your signature.

The GREATEST risk is not taking one. ....Bob, hire Eliot Wolf, then get the hell out of the way.


I learned a long time ago not to be pessimistic about things I have no control over.

I don't see myself as a pessimist. I call them as I see them. I don't call them as I want them to be or hope they would be or wish they would be.

Wolf
07-14-2014, 06:42 PM
I looked at what we did at the draft similar to what the oilers did in the 80's when they drafted steinkuhlar,mathews,and munchack before any flashy pick

Did we get the flashy pick this year? No. Bob is building inside out. If we can get our lines built up, then we should end able to go flashy later. Doesn't do much to go flashy when you can't stop anyone or get a crucial 3rd and 1 or control the clock when you need too

Double Barrel
07-14-2014, 06:56 PM
Without getting into all the sanctimonious bovine manure, it was one of the very few times I have ever felt compelled in insult someone on a message board. Looking back and after further review, I still feel it was deservedly so. Although it may have been insulting to 12 and 15 year olds. I guess comparison to a gnat, flea or a fly would've been more appropriate. You act as if I went infantrycak.

I don't know about sanctimonious bovine manure, or even if that comment was directed at me, but I guess meeting many of the folks from Texans Talk at tailgating parties gives me a different perspective.

For instance, the guy you were going back and forth with - Honoring Earl 34 - is a solid dude. He's a smartass, and it appears the more you seem to get riled up about disagreement, the more sarcastic he gets with it.

As far as 12-15 year olds, I know quite a few due to my son and involvement with various youth groups, and trust me when I say that you are not talking to 12-15 year olds. First, none of them give a crap about the navel-gazing exercise of salary cap numbers and other front office stuff, and secondly, their replies to you would have presented a very vast lack of respect for your opinions and even you as a person. And these would be the good 12-15 year olds that I know have their acts together.

I'm not acting anything. Whatever you and infantrycak have been you is between you and infantrycak. You just seem unable to handle a difference of opinion without blasting people as groupthink, sheep, koolaide drinkers, and whatever else you need to marginalize folks because they disagree. That says everything about you, not them.

Honoring Earl 34
07-14-2014, 07:25 PM
I don't know about sanctimonious bovine manure, or even if that comment was directed at me, but I guess meeting many of the folks from Texans Talk at tailgating parties gives me a different perspective.

For instance, the guy you were going back and forth with - Honoring Earl 34 - is a solid dude. He's a smartass, and it appears the more you seem to get riled up about disagreement, the more sarcastic he gets with it.

As far as 12-15 year olds, I know quite a few due to my son and involvement with various youth groups, and trust me when I say that you are not talking to 12-15 year olds. First, none of them give a crap about the navel-gazing exercise of salary cap numbers and other front office stuff, and secondly, their replies to you would have presented a very vast lack of respect for your opinions and even you as a person. And these would be the good 12-15 year olds that I know have their acts together.

I'm not acting anything. Whatever you and infantrycak have been you is between you and infantrycak. You just seem unable to handle a difference of opinion without blasting people as groupthink, sheep, koolaide drinkers, and whatever else you need to marginalize folks because they disagree. That says everything about you, not them.

Wow ... thanks DB I didn't know you cared . :heart:

I find a lot of times guys who throw punches have glass jaws . Mojo used to go with the you're dumb and I'm not card and now he's gone , for the better I must say .

At the end of the day , I view this as a bunch of guys and girls sitting in a drive talking about anything that comes up . Then there's that one know it all who keeps repeating the same point because he wants to be heard . This is not in a dry comedic sense but in a Howard Cosell way . Oh well he's harmless .

Texian
07-14-2014, 08:18 PM
I don't know about sanctimonious bovine manure, or even if that comment was directed at me, but I guess meeting many of the folks from Texans Talk at tailgating parties gives me a different perspective.

For instance, the guy you were going back and forth with - Honoring Earl 34 - is a solid dude. He's a smartass, and it appears the more you seem to get riled up about disagreement, the more sarcastic he gets with it.

As far as 12-15 year olds, I know quite a few due to my son and involvement with various youth groups, and trust me when I say that you are not talking to 12-15 year olds. First, none of them give a crap about the navel-gazing exercise of salary cap numbers and other front office stuff, and secondly, their replies to you would have presented a very vast lack of respect for your opinions and even you as a person. And these would be the good 12-15 year olds that I know have their acts together.

I'm not acting anything. Whatever you and infantrycak have been you is between you and infantrycak. You just seem unable to handle a difference of opinion without blasting people as groupthink, sheep, koolaide drinkers, and whatever else you need to marginalize folks because they disagree. That says everything about you, not them.

I call them as I see DB. Analytical, 1+1=2, I am who I am. An independent outside the box thinker. Fans come in all shapes and sizes including those who derive their opinions from group think (a lot of media), those who get their ideas from public opinion (a lot of media), sheep and those fans who only want to hear, see and believe positive things about their team, true and untrue, even if at times it resorts to living in Fantasy Land, the Kool Aid drinkers. They're who they're. I'm not marginalizing or blasting them. We're all fans who just see it different.

I know these are the folks who don't like me, detest any post of mine that doesn't paint the Texans in a positive light. In their eye I'm arrogant, a pessimist, cynical, irritating and an annoyance. Much like the hated sports announcer because he's not saying nice things about my team and likes the other team better. That's not why I'm here. I tell it like I see it and it is easy to see that most here disagree with me. If I was trying to be Mr. Popular and make everyone like me I would be be blowing Texans smoke up everyone's hiney. Contrary to popular belief I don't see myself as disagreeing all that much. I often feel that some are attacking, blasting and trying to marginalize me. On the other hand I do spend a large amount of time defending what I write because many people like yourself inquire about the content of my post.

If defending my position is disagreeing then so be it, not much I can do about that. But what's wrong with disagreeing? I think most get angry or irritated because they see my defending my position as disagreeing with them. I see it it as more of a position of, I am right and here's why and not so much as a position of you're wrong and here's why. I'm not full of, the Texans are on their way to the Super Bowl, not unless there is a reason to believe that anyways. You will find, if you choose to look, that many of my post are in direct responses, most congenial in nature, to those who have directly addressed me. Much like this post. It's the polite thing to do. See posts #161, #162, #169, #171, #174, #182 and this post in this thread for examples.

Troy Chapman
07-14-2014, 08:26 PM
From my point of view this team has not done anything to get better. To the contrary IMHO they've taken several steps backwards from the team they were last year. Then again I'm not full of hope and glimmer. I kinda of see things for the way they are and not how I want them to be. To be completely honest.

When I see the Texans have some of the worst salary cap in the league I accept it for what it is. I don't try to convince myself that it's OK and everything will be fine and manufacture excuses for why having no salary cap space is a good thing. I know when you have little or no cap space and your competition has ample, you're at a distinct disadvantage. Is what it is. There for I suffer less disappointments and I'm also more right in my thinking and analysis because of my honest straight forward thinking instead of wishing and hoping. Make sense?

I don't feel that I am making excuses, I am just explaining how it see and understand it. Clearly we disagree on this, which is fine, that's how it is supposed to be. I feel that understand why the decisions were made except with a few over the past 3 years. And the consequences of those decisions are what brings the Houston Texans to this point.

But, again, I feel the Texans are headed in the right direction in terms of the team and salary cap situation. That is all.

Texian
07-14-2014, 08:35 PM
I don't feel that I am making excuses, I am just explaining how it see and understand it. Clearly we disagree on this, which is fine, that's how it is supposed to be. I feel that understand why the decisions were made except with a few over the past 3 years. And the consequences of those decisions are what brings the Houston Texans to this point.

But, again, I feel the Texans are headed in the right direction in terms of the team and salary cap situation. That is all.

Understood. Let me just add this, it might help you understand my point of view better. If we sat down to play a game of Monopoly and I started the game with $2000 and you started the game with $1200, who has the advantage? who is likely to win? who do you perceive as the Texans?

steelbtexan
07-14-2014, 08:37 PM
Houston bought and paid for a team in 2011.

2011 and 2012 were very good seasons. 2013 just came off the rails. This offseason they cleared the books for 2015. And your judging before 2014 & 2015 seasons happen, especially with a possibly huge cap space to work with in 2015.

How is this different than what the Colts did after they released Manning? They cleared the books and got the #1 pick. And have been filling in their roster with the extra cap space each season.

Houston paid for some free agents in 2011 and 2013...didn't work out...so they are now moving on. They have cleared the books just like Indy did a few years ago.

The 2014 draft was a great step in the right direction. The real test will be what is done in the offseason after the 2014 season. I'm not saying Houston will do what Indy did after their 2-14 season and go 10-6 the following season. But the Texans are correcting for their past cap issues. The way I see it, most teams have to do this every so often. Houston just had some bad timing with the new CBA and rookie wage scale.

And I disagree, I don't think the 2014 team will be worse than the 2013 team. The team hit rock bottom, and is starting the see the light.

But many on here said the Texans didn't have cap issues.

I agree that 2014 wont be as bad as 2013. You cant be worse than picking 1-1. I actually like the Texans draft and under the radar FA signings of Lewis and Cleamons. You cant have worse safety play than the Texans had last yr.

ATXtexanfan
07-14-2014, 08:40 PM
never thought this thread would see 10 pages

Honoring Earl 34
07-14-2014, 08:45 PM
But many on here said the Texans didn't have cap issues.

I agree that 2014 wont be as bad as 2013. You cant be worse than picking 1-1. I actually like the Texans draft and under the radar FA signings of Lewis and Cleamons. You cant have worse safety play than the Texans had last yr.

The Texans IIRC , had the dilemma of paying players their 2nd contract while losing . Then when they started winning and had to pay the guys who got them there , the money issues got worse . Combine that with having to buy half a secondary then letting your guy walk to the Lions , oh well we got Ed Reed .

NCTexan
07-14-2014, 09:05 PM
tl;dr

Texian's ideal team pays everyone the minimum allowed by the NFL so that the team has as much cap space as possible always. The salary floor is his sworn enemy.

Texian
07-14-2014, 09:42 PM
tl;dr

Texian's ideal team pays everyone the minimum allowed by the NFL so that the team has as much cap space as possible always. The salary floor is his sworn enemy.

FTR - My ideal team salary cap would've a $20 million QB preferably, $4mil-$5mil special teams, $5 million for IR replacements, LTBEs, grievances and practice squad, and the remaining salary cap split as close to 50% as possible not to exceed a 40% to 60% ratio Off/Def or Def/Off. Only 1 or 2 players on O (excluding QB) and 1 or 2 players on D receiving close to Max compensation for their respective positions. With approx 50% of the D roster and 50% of the O roster in the neighborhood of player minimums. And a max of 25%-30% of contracts expiring at the end of each league year.

Honoring Earl 34
07-14-2014, 09:50 PM
FTR - My ideal team salary cap would've a $20 million QB preferably, $4mil-$5mil special teams, $5 million for IR replacements, LTBEs, grievances and practice squad, and the remaining salary cap split as close to 50% as possible not to exceed a 40% to 60% ratio Off/Def or Def/Off. Only 1 or 2 players on O (excluding QB) and 1 or 2 players on D receiving close to Max compensation for their respective positions. With approx 50% of the D roster and 50% of the O roster in the neighborhood of player minimums. And a max of 25%-30% of contracts expiring at the end of each league year.

It's also having to spend on certain positions like QB and that high dollar QB has to earn his money . Same as a LT and so on . The 9ers and Seahawks are going to be saddled with a QB who gets paid . There will be holes in other places now and Kap and Wilson will have to be better

steelbtexan
07-14-2014, 10:07 PM
The GREATEST risk is not taking one. ....Bob, hire Eliot Wolf, then get the hell out of the way.



I don't see myself as a pessimist. I call them as I see them. I don't call them as I want them to be or hope they would be or wish they would be.

According to some people, Season ticket holders who have been spending $$$$ at NRG for yrs shouldn't say anything negative about the Texans org/McNair because A. He brought football back to Houston. B. These season ticket holders cant do anything about the crap product that McNair has fairly consistently put on field for over a decade.

I happen to think it's healthy for fans to vent about the shortcomings of their favorite team and give their opinions on what they would do to make the team better. Others don't feel that way and I get that.

As far as your sig goes McNair will never do that because the Texans have been very successful at doing what McNair wants most. (making millions of $$$$. BTW McNair spending $700 mil on the Texans is misleading. Reliant/NRG have a 200 mil naming rights fee and the minority owners have paid atleast 100 mil. Plus the taxpayers have been on the hook for about 200 mil. So while McNair fronted out some of the $$$$ it isn't like he put out all of that $$$$ and he's made about a billion $$$$ off his investment. Not a bad gig if you can afford it.

So unfortunately we the GREAT FANS of the HOUSTON TEXANS can expect more of the same in the future.

Honoring Earl 34
07-14-2014, 10:13 PM
According to some people, Season ticket holders who have been spending $$$$ at NRG for yrs shouldn't say anything negative about the Texans org/McNair because A. He brought football back to Houston. B. These season ticket holders cant do anything about the crap product that McNair has fairly consistently put on field for over a decade.

I happen to think it's healthy for fans to vent about the shortcomings of their favorite team and give their opinions on what they would do to make the team better. Others don't feel that way and I get that.

As far as your sig goes McNair will never do that because the Texans have been very successful at doing what McNair wants most. (making millions of $$$$. BTW McNair spending $700 mil on the Texans is misleading. Reliant/NRG have a 200 mil naming rights fee and the minority owners have paid atleast 100 mil. Plus the taxpayers have been on the hook for about 200 mil. So while McNair fronted out some of the $$$$ it isn't like he put out all of that $$$$ and he's made about a billion $$$$ off his investment. Not a bad gig if you can afford it.

So unfortunately we the GREAT FANS of the HOUSTON TEXANS can expect more of the same in the future.

Bob's just a nice guy in a win at all cost business . He believed mittens could be something to the bitter end . He defended him like a son and missed out on discount double check . He gave Kubiak way to many chances when most guys would have lasted 3 years , in Cleveland 1 . Why ... I think he got to close with the hired help .

EllisUnit
07-14-2014, 10:27 PM
It's also having to spend on certain positions like QB and that high dollar QB has to earn his money . Same as a LT and so on . The 9ers and Seahawks are going to be saddled with a QB who gets paid . There will be holes in other places now and Kap and Wilson will have to be better

Not to mention when you have a player like JJ Watt who will have a big pay day coming. Fact is you have to pay the piper if you want to keep your good players. The real problem occurs when you have to many good players and are unable to pay them all what they want.

That was what happened a few years back Mario, Demeco, Quin, Barwin, Leach, J Dressen all got pretty good pay days, had we attempted to keep them all that would of been cap hell.

Texian
07-14-2014, 10:50 PM
According to some people, Season ticket holders who have been spending $$$$ at NRG for yrs shouldn't say anything negative about the Texans org/McNair because A. He brought football back to Houston. B. These season ticket holders cant do anything about the crap product that McNair has fairly consistently put on field for over a decade.

I happen to think it's healthy for fans to vent about the shortcomings of their favorite team and give their opinions on what they would do to make the team better. Others don't feel that way and I get that.

As far as your sig goes McNair will never do that because the Texans have been very successful at doing what McNair wants most. (making millions of $$$$. BTW McNair spending $700 mil on the Texans is misleading. Reliant/NRG have a 200 mil naming rights fee and the minority owners have paid atleast 100 mil. Plus the taxpayers have been on the hook for about 200 mil. So while McNair fronted out some of the $$$$ it isn't like he put out all of that $$$$ and he's made about a billion $$$$ off his investment. Not a bad gig if you can afford it.

So unfortunately we the GREAT FANS of the HOUSTON TEXANS can expect more of the same in the future.

I agree. Here is what I had to say a couple of weeks ago about Bob McNair the owner of the Houston Texans:

I think Bob is an excellent businessman and probably the nicest owner in the NFL. His Texans definitely make money and are one of the more successful sports franchises on planet Earth. However when it comes to managing the X and Os on his football field he's much more like the novice fan.

Bob has been of the mindset he could buy a championship and he would spend the cash to do so. Said so himself. Hopefully he has learned that is not a successful franchise model and the system penalizes those who do. Maybe he has learned that long term planning, preparation and spending wisely is the better way to go. Let's hope so.

That said I also agree that there is no way Bob would hire a full fledged GM with complete say and control over all football operations. Bob like Jerry is NOT going to give that up. Bob like Jerry is having to much fun to consider such a move. While many Texans fans see Houston as New England lite, I see them as being much like the Dallas Cowboys front office. Texans fans best hope is Bob can eventually figure it out and realize that all the other 31 owners have just as much money to spend as Bob but some spend it much more wisely than Bob has done. All IMHO - (patiently awaiting the this is blasphemous, condemnation, spending eternal life and damnation in living hell posts.) And with that, I'll say Goodnight.

http://prod.images.texans.clubs.nflcdn.com/image-web/NFL/CDA/data/deployed/prod/TEXANS/assets/images/imported/HOU/photos/clubimages/2014/05-May/tempDSC_2323--nfl_mezz_1280_1024.JPG?width=960&height=720

http://media.star-telegram.com/smedia/2014/05/08/20/56/1qG9a7.St.58.jpeg

76Texan
07-15-2014, 12:18 AM
Hey, this thread is turning for the better.

I like it.

DBCooper
07-15-2014, 07:46 AM
I'm going to start quoting myself too

DBCooper
07-15-2014, 07:47 AM
I'm going to start quoting myself too

See?

Scooter
07-15-2014, 07:50 AM
i find the 'sit down you're drunk' analogy to be absolutely correct in this case. if all disagreeing parties agree about you, there might be something to it.

texian you have actually made some good and valid points here. your dickish holier than thou attitude, inability to take criticism and disagreements, inability to see when you're wrong, and persistent trolling has done you no favors. nobody cares if you make a good point. if you're an a-hole it doesn't matter if you're dropping golden eggs - it's still shite.

Honoring Earl 34
07-15-2014, 07:57 AM
See?

What ?

Honoring Earl 34
07-15-2014, 07:59 AM
What ?

que ?

Scooter
07-15-2014, 08:01 AM
que ?

que paso!!!

sorry, my niece's favorite joke.

Texian
07-15-2014, 08:02 AM
Personally, I don't see anything wrong with being a Kool-aid drinker; I don't see anything wrong with trying to look on the bright side of things; I don't see anything wrong with hoping for the best.

I'll be drinking the kool-aid and hoping for the best because that's what I do. And I don't see a damned thing wrong with that.

:bravo: Congratulations! Kudos to you, one of the few not afraid to stand up for what they believe. As a young lad I was Kool Aid drinker also. After one to many disappointments the Kool Aid lost it's endure and promises. As I got older I realized that people like Bob McNair and Jerry Jones make as many mistakes as you and me, sometimes they make more.

With Respect.

beerlover
07-15-2014, 08:05 AM
Texian is really Cal McNair undercover :winky:

Honoring Earl 34
07-15-2014, 08:17 AM
Texian is really Cal McNair undercover :winky:

Trying to undermine his dad so mom will put him in charge ? :koolaid:

Here's a song for koolaid Cal since that seems to be his favorite thing . :koolaid:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gd-oC5eq7Ps :koolaid:

Texian
07-15-2014, 08:33 AM
Trying to undermine his dad so mom will put him in charge ? :koolaid:

Here's a song for koolaid Cal since that seems to be his favorite thing . :koolaid:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gd-oC5eq7Ps :koolaid:

According to DB who knows you up close and personal, you're a sarcastic smart ass, so you got that going for you....carry on

htownfan32
07-15-2014, 09:05 AM
Don't feed the :trapstar:

Texian
07-15-2014, 09:27 AM
i find the 'sit down you're drunk' analogy to be absolutely correct in this case. if all disagreeing parties agree about you, there might be something to it.

texian you have actually made some good and valid points here. your dickish holier than thou attitude, inability to take criticism and disagreements, inability to see when you're wrong, and persistent trolling has done you no favors. nobody cares if you make a good point. if you're an a-hole it doesn't matter if you're dropping golden eggs - it's still shite.

Conventional Wisdom is the herd is usually wrong. In this case, IF the herd was right a majority of the time and I was wrong your comments may have some validity. However that is not the case. The accusations and comments you make are all true. As long as I or anyone else for that matter comes here and writes anything negative about the beloved Texans, this will always be the case. It's much like the hated objective sportscaster who points out the weakness, flaws and negatives of home team. They quickly become the most hated person on the air. Such is the case here. Call me Howard Cosell. I'm not here to make you feel all warm and fuzzy about the Houston Texans. The bottom line here is this, the reason I have dickish holier than thou attitude, inability to take criticism and disagreements, inability to see when I'm wrong, is simply because my comments, DON'T AGREE WITH YOURS!

Honoring Earl 34
07-15-2014, 09:28 AM
According to DB who knows you up close and personal, you're a sarcastic smart ass, so you got that going for you....carry on

Are you Cal ?

Can I have a job on Sundays ?

Ok ... you are the smartest guy on the board and you're not a follower . I wanna be like you .

thunderkyss
07-15-2014, 09:39 AM
I've been saying 2013 was well on the way since 2010.

& if we wait long enough, the Myans will be proven right as well.

thunderkyss
07-15-2014, 09:45 AM
Then why were there 99 out of 100 telling me how wrong I was and I was nothing but a hater? a troll? No Sir, when I was explaining the evils of Salary Cap Hell and it's eventual results I was being told by most that the Texans would be Super Bowl Champions in 2012 and 2013.

Because you're still wrong about that.

The problem was injuries. Had Foster, Demeco, Schaub, Andre, Mario, Briesel, OD, & a bunch of others not suffered serious injuries, we very well could have been in a Super Bowl by now. Salary cap hell or not.

Texian
07-15-2014, 09:48 AM
& if we wait long enough, the Myans will be proven right as well.

Here s something a little more short term for you; the Texans will be a Top 10 pick in 2015 AND if they don't do more this year to clean up the 2015 and 2016 salary caps they will be picking in the Top 10 in 2016 too.

thunderkyss
07-15-2014, 09:50 AM
No, it was simple arithmetic. When you spend more than you're allowed in a given year, and do it year after year, and your competition doesn't, you can't remain competitive. It's really is that simple. Except the sheep didn't want to hear or acknowledge the truth. Sheep don't do that! We're haters they say! Then the sheep resort name calling and hurling insults.

You fail to acknowledge the value of the player signed & tend to over-value the player in FA.

Our cap was tight, because in three years time, we had a league leading passer, receiver, & rusher, Two of the best DEs in the league, two of the best LBs in the league, one of the best corners, the best LT bar none.... & a top 10 QB.

& all but one of those DEs were getting paid.

Texian
07-15-2014, 09:55 AM
Our cap was tight, because in three years time, we had a league leading passer, receiver, & rusher, Two of the best DEs in the league, two of the best LBs in the league, one of the best corners, the best LT bar none.... & a top 10 QB.

& all but one of those DEs were getting paid.

Three years in a row the Texans did not have enough salary cap $$$ to field and pay a full 53 man roster.

Mr teX
07-15-2014, 09:57 AM
Because I did the exercise, objectively. (2012 sans Winston, Ryans, Brisel, Vickers, Jones)

Your problem is you only look at it from 1 black and white point of view & ignore everything else....even when everything is facts staring you right in the face. The issues we discuss in here are not nearly as simple as you try to portray them to be.

You did the same thing in the Bortles thread....swore up and down the Texans were in love with Bortles and he was going to be the pick b/c of this & that's it; nothing else matters...not even the genetic freak pass rusher who was thought to be the consensus #1 pick by most going into the 2013 college football season and the NFL offseason. Then when they picked Clowney your ego couldn't handle it so instead of owning your fallacious prediction you started copping pleas and blasting the front office saying they were "afraid" to pass on Clowney......Completely ignoring the fact that he was a very real option to picked @ #1 all along acting like he came out of left field.

Now I don't have a problem with anything you've been saying....at least in this thread...In fact, i sort of agree with you and acknowledge that them dumping salary did help them turn it around faster.

But to act like it was the biggest reason?...well that's a dishonest argument. They did a whole host of other things to accentuate the advantage of having tons of cap space................starting with Andrew Luck falling in their lap...They then had what looks to be a helluva draft.

If 1 of the 2 above variables does not happen the whole plan is derailed & they likely are looking at a 4-6 win season in Luck's rookie year and probably and 8-10 win season last year... like the Jags...who didn't get an Andrew Luck...they got a Blaine Gabbert who set them back. regardless, the 40-60 million dollars each team cleared in cap space wasn't really a factor as far as how those guys played on the field to elevate/submarine their teams.

Lastly, you can look around the league and find at least 2 other teams with all kinds of cap space and see that they still stink and have been for a few years. It's not that i don't have time to do your exercise...it's just i don't need to b/c its silly.

& just b/c i don't wholeheartedly agree with your argument about the Colts quick turnaround does not mean that i'm a kool-aid drinker and i think everything the texans do is all positive. I just look at and acknowledge all the variables; unlike you.

Honoring Earl 34
07-15-2014, 10:06 AM
You fail to acknowledge the value of the player signed & tend to over-value the player in FA.

Our cap was tight, because in three years time, we had a league leading passer, receiver, & rusher, Two of the best DEs in the league, two of the best LBs in the league, one of the best corners, the best LT bar none.... & a top 10 QB.

& all but one of those DEs were getting paid.

The 2011 team was the best . Who knows what happens if Schaub didn't get hurt . That offseason is when they lost a lot of depth because they had to pay the skilled guys . Those skilled guys and young stars couldn't stay on the field and the high dollar QB was maxed out on potential and you could say he was regressing do to the foot .

EllisUnit
07-15-2014, 10:07 AM
Three years in a row the Texans did not have enough salary cap $$$ to field and pay a full 53 man roster.

You know what that means right ? That we had to many good players on the roster, because lets be honest. Good players cost lots of money right ?

Mr teX
07-15-2014, 10:28 AM
The 2011 team was the best . Who knows what happens if Schaub didn't get hurt . That offseason is when they lost a lot of depth because they had to pay the skilled guys . Those skilled guys and young stars couldn't stay on the field and the high dollar QB was maxed out on potential and you could say he was regressing do to the foot .

They had the best chance to make it to a SB but they weren't better...People forget that the 2011 schedule was easy as hell and we only went 10-6. Our 2012 schedule was extremely tough and we posted a better record and won lots of close games that year before we were exposed by GB/NE.

Both teams would've had to go thru NE and beat them at home to have advanced. The only difference is that the 2011 team would've met up with them in the AFC championship game if they somehow beat Baltimore. the 2012 team had to play them 1 game sooner in the AFC divisional round.

In any event i don't see the 2011 team with or without Schaub beating NE in foxboro b/c it was our 1st foray in the playoffs and NE has this guy under center named Tom Brady...yeah he's pretty good.

EllisUnit
07-15-2014, 10:30 AM
They had the best chance to make it to a SB but they weren't better...People forget that the 2011 schedule was easy as hell and we only went 10-6. Our 2012 schedule was extremely tough and we posted a better record and won lots of close games that year before we were exposed by GB/NE.

Both teams would've had to go thru NE and beat them at home to have advanced. The only difference is that the 2011 team would've met up with them in the AFC championship game if they somehow beat Baltimore. the 2012 team had to play them 1 game sooner in the AFC divisional round.

In any event i don't see the 2011 team with or without Schaub beating NE in foxboro.

We were only 10-6 because the loss of Schaub. I truly believe with they way he was playing at the time and the talent we had, that was the best team we had and the best chance we had at a Superbowl.

Honoring Earl 34
07-15-2014, 10:36 AM
They had the best chance to make it to a SB but they weren't better...People forget that the 2011 schedule was easy as hell and we only went 10-6. Our 2012 schedule was extremely tough and we posted a better record and won lots of close games that year before we were exposed by GB/NE.

Both teams would've had to go thru NE and beat them at home to have advanced. The only difference is that the 2011 team would've met up with them in the AFC championship game if they somehow beat Baltimore. the 2012 team had to play them 1 game sooner in the AFC divisional round.

In any event i don't see the 2011 team with or without Schaub beating NE in foxboro b/c it was our 1st foray in the playoffs and NE has this guy under center named Tom Brady...yeah he's pretty good.

We were only 10-6 because the loss of Schaub. I truly believe with they way he was playing at the time and the talent we had, that was the best team we had and the best chance we had at a Superbowl.

The locker room changed in 2012 . They didn't have the same grit that allowed TJ YATES to win a playoff game . That 2012 team couldn't win a game to clinch home field advantage .

EllisUnit
07-15-2014, 10:46 AM
The locker room changed in 2012 . They didn't have the same grit that allowed TJ YATES to win a playoff game . That 2012 team couldn't win a game to clinch home field advantage .

Nope they sure didn't, they had to win what one out of the last 4 games to clinch and flopped. Thats why i say 2011 was easily the best team we have ever had IMO. And that was without AJ for a good chunk of the season, and without Schaub !

Texian
07-15-2014, 10:47 AM
Your problem is you only look at it from 1 black and white point of view & ignore everything else....even when everything is facts staring you right in the face. The issues we discuss in here are not nearly as simple as you try to portray it them to be.

What facts am I missing? Please explain to me how the 2012 team was a better team than 2011 team without Winston, Ryans, Brisel, Vickers, Jones on the roster. Clearly I am missing something.

You did the same thing in the Bortles thread....swore up and down the Texans were in love with Bortles and he was going to be the pick b/c of this..& that's it; nothing else matters...not even the genetic freak pass rusher who was thought to be the consensus #1 pick by most going into the 2013 college football season and the NFL offseason. Then when they picked Clowney your ego couldn't handle it so instead of owning your fallacious prediction you started copping pleas and blasting the front office who was "afraid" to pass on Clowney.

I liked Bortles for 1 simple reason, 4 game winning drives. The same reason why Bill Walsh drafted Joe Montana and Bill Belichick drafted Tom Brady. I thought at the time as desperate as the Texans were for a QB taking a page out of the Walsh and Belichick playbook was the right thing to do. I didn't like Clowney because he only had 3 sacks and his personality doesn't seem to fit the profile of player driven to be the best. YES and I still believe IMHO that Bob McNair knowing an Andrew Luck was not in the draft did not have the stomach for and was terrified of taking a chance of having to live through another 4 years of David Carr part II and therefore opted for the alumnus. Makes perfect sense to me - My opinion hasn't changed.

I don't have a problem with anything you've been saying....at least in this thread...In fact, i sort of agree with you.

But to act like the biggest reason why the Colts turned it around so quickly was because they got themselves out of salary cap hell and that was it...well that's a dishonest argument. They did a whole host of other things to accentuate that effect................starting with Andrew Luck falling in their lap...They then had what looks to be a helluva draft.

If 1 of the 2 above variables does not happen the whole plan is derailed & they likely are looking at a 4-6 win season in Luck's rookie year......Like the Jags regardless of the 40-60 million dollars they cleared in cap space that you keep bringing up.

No doubt about Andrew Luck, no denying that. However IMHO I don't think the Colts could have achieved the success as quickly as they did if they didn't have $70 million to spend or if they had a similar Salary Cap as the Texans. Also my opinion hasn't changed, the Jags will be a better a much better team because of the money they now have to spend on free agents.

Lastly, you can lookk around the league and find at least 2 other teams with all kinds of cap space and see that they still stink. It's not that i don't have time to do your exercise...it's just i don't need to b/c its silly.

You know what that means right ? That we had to many good players on the roster, because lets be honest. Good players cost lots of money right ?

True! Also true, bad contracts and some players making more than their worth AND a poorly managed salary cap.

santo
07-15-2014, 10:48 AM
We were only 10-6 because the loss of Schaub. I truly believe with they way he was playing at the time and the talent we had, that was the best team we had and the best chance we had at a Superbowl.

Yep, we were blowing out teams that year, but it all went downhill after Schaub got hurt.

If it wasn't for that freak accident to his toe, who knows how far the Texans would have gone.

Texian
07-15-2014, 10:54 AM
They had the best chance to make it to a SB but they weren't better...People forget that the 2011 schedule was easy as hell and we only went 10-6. Our 2012 schedule was extremely tough and we posted a better record and won lots of close games that year before we were exposed by GB/NE.

Both teams would've had to go thru NE and beat them at home to have advanced. The only difference is that the 2011 team would've met up with them in the AFC championship game if they somehow beat Baltimore. the 2012 team had to play them 1 game sooner in the AFC divisional round.

In any event i don't see the 2011 team with or without Schaub beating NE in foxboro b/c it was our 1st foray in the playoffs and NE has this guy under center named Tom Brady...yeah he's pretty good.

Plus the division got much easier with the absence of Peyton Manning and Jeff Fisher.

Honoring Earl 34
07-15-2014, 11:00 AM
True! Also true, bad contracts and some players making more than their worth AND a poorly managed salary cap.

You can't pay guys at non premium positions premium money . :koolaid:

Mr teX
07-15-2014, 11:09 AM
The locker room changed in 2012 . They didn't have the same grit that allowed TJ YATES to win a playoff game . That 2012 team couldn't win a game to clinch home field advantage .

eh, i disagree. I think its highly likely we get our asses handed to us if we face NE in both instances...with or without Schaub. He was playing well & we were blowing folks out in 2011...but we were also playing a last place schedule too. in 2012, we played a 1st place schedule against teams that had top flight qb's. Infinitely harder to navigate.

DBCooper
07-15-2014, 11:17 AM
What ?

I was quoting myself.

Honoring Earl 34
07-15-2014, 11:18 AM
eh, i disagree. I think its highly likely we get our asses handed to us if we face NE in both instances...with or without Schaub. He was playing well & we were blowing folks out in 2011...but we were also playing a last place schedule too. in 2012, we played a 1st place schedule against teams that had top flight qb's. Infinitely harder to navigate.

TJ Yates clinched a playoff game on the road vs a playoff team in 20011 .

Mr teX
07-15-2014, 11:19 AM
Plus the division got much easier with the absence of Peyton Manning and Jeff Fisher.

That's what im saying...I don't think that 2011 was better than 2012's version, i just think that for once, the Texans had a favorable situation with the last place schedule, the division being weaker with the incumbent division winner being in transition and finally having an acceptable talent level to seriously compete. Over half the teams' wins that year came from beating teams in the cellar and we lost 2 of our last 3 games to 2 of those teams.

Mr teX
07-15-2014, 11:21 AM
TJ Yates clinched a playoff game on the road vs a playoff team in 20011 .

And??? he got his ass handed to him the following week by a 6-10 carolina panther team......at home no less. Where was this "grit" you spoke of for the 2011 team then?

The Pencil Neck
07-15-2014, 11:50 AM
:bravo: Congratulations! Kudos to you, one of the few not afraid to stand up for what they believe. As a young lad I was Kool Aid drinker also. After one to many disappointments the Kool Aid lost it's endure and promises. As I got older I realized that people like Bob McNair and Jerry Jones make as many mistakes as you and me, sometimes they make more.

With Respect.

I'm not a kool-aid drinker because I think that guys like Bob McNair or Jerry Jones know better than I do or would do a better job at running the team than I would, I'm a kool-aid drinker because I don't have control over the situation and I don't really even know what's going on. If this was a situation I had control over, I wouldn't be drinking kool-aid, I'd be looking on the pessimistic side and instituting changes that I think would make things work better.

Would those be different changes than Bob McNair made? I really don't know. I don't have access to the same information he has. I don't know if the information I do have access to is reliable and/or correct and I assume that it's not. Every time I've been involved in something that was reported in the news, the news has gotten it wrong or messed something up. So I don't trust any news sources and I know that what I read is just a fraction of the information available to the people on the ground, so to speak.

Being pessimistic and awful-izing and looking on the bleak side of things you have no control over and that you don't have full information about is just asking to be miserable and upset. I'm too old for that.

Scooter
07-15-2014, 11:56 AM
Conventional Wisdom is the herd is usually wrong. In this case, IF the herd was right a majority of the time and I was wrong your comments may have some validity. However that is not the case.

did you just say that everyone is wrong but you?

Texian
07-15-2014, 12:34 PM
I'm not a kool-aid drinker because I think that guys like Bob McNair or Jerry Jones know better than I do or would do a better job at running the team than I would, I'm a kool-aid drinker because I don't have control over the situation and I don't really even know what's going on. If this was a situation I had control over, I wouldn't be drinking kool-aid, I'd be looking on the pessimistic side and instituting changes that I think would make things work better.

Would those be different changes than Bob McNair made? I really don't know. I don't have access to the same information he has. I don't know if the information I do have access to is reliable and/or correct and I assume that it's not. Every time I've been involved in something that was reported in the news, the news has gotten it wrong or messed something up. So I don't trust any news sources and I know that what I read is just a fraction of the information available to the people on the ground, so to speak.

Being pessimistic and awful-izing and looking on the bleak side of things you have no control over and that you don't have full information about is just asking to be miserable and upset. I'm too old for that.

We are wired different. I do agree that news is fleeting and often just plain wrong. That's why I try to dig a little deeper to connect the dots. I can be wrong connecting the dots but sometimes the dots are prophetic.

It was only this year that I came to suspect that Bob McNair was much more like Jerry Jones than folks suspected or wanted to admit. When info leaked that Ed Reed was being pursued and the D coaches hadn't been consulted, we got our first look behind the green curtain.

After the loss in JAX McNair admitted to stewing in a fit of anger on the long plane trip home. The next morning we got see McNair display a minor temper tantrum and announced hesitation and apparently w/o consultation that Case Keenum is the starting QB. Again another look behind the curtain and the well managed shine and polish become a bit tarnished.

Now that you've some dots and a pattern of behavior, looking back it become easier to deduce other decision likely made by Bob; Hiring Wade and promising him (2) 1st rd draft picks to take the job, Arian Foster's contract, Cushing's and Schaub's contract, back loading contracts because of cap restraints, restructuring contacts because we have the money and we're going to spend it, all decisions made by Mr. McNair and his Win at all cost attitude. Also makes sense why Rick Smith wasn't fired, he wasn't guilty of any wrong doings. Looking back now it makes a lot more sense. Unfortunately now, being a Texans fan, is a lot like being a Cowboy fan. All those Texans fans who hate the Cowboys because of Jerry, the joke is now on them (me being one).

http://prod.images.texans.clubs.nflcdn.com/image-web/NFL/CDA/data/deployed/prod/TEXANS/assets/images/imported/HOU/photos/clubimages/2014/05-May/tempDSC_2323--nfl_mezz_1280_1024.JPG?width=960&height=720

http://media.star-telegram.com/smedia/2014/05/08/20/56/1qG9a7.St.58.jpeg

Texian
07-15-2014, 12:54 PM
did you just say that everyone is wrong but you?

Nope, what I said is the herd (group think) is often wrong. Where I was right was my last sentence in my last response to you. Let me explain it another way that you might understand;

This message board for the most part is a love fest for the Houston Texans. If you come here and don't want to play by those rules and want to discuss their warts and short comings, then you are going to be on the outside looking in. It won't be tolerated! Expect to be treated like a leper. Expect the objective sports announcer syndrome. I understand that!

DBCooper
07-15-2014, 01:07 PM
This message board for the most part is a love fest for the Houston Texans. If you come here and don't want to play by those rules and want to discuss their warts and short comings, then you are going to be on the outside looking in. It won't be tolerated! Expect to be treated like a leper. Expect the objective sports announcer syndrome. I understand that!

Total bull$hit.

The Pencil Neck
07-15-2014, 01:11 PM
We are wired different. I do agree that news is fleeting and often just plain wrong. That's why I try to dig a little deeper to connect the dots. I can be wrong connecting the dots but sometimes the dots are prophetic.

It was only this year that I came to suspect that Bob McNair was much more like Jerry Jones than folks suspected or wanted to admit. When info leaked that Ed Reed was being pursued and the D coaches hadn't been consulted, we got our first look behind the green curtain.


A huge mistake people make is thinking that they know someone famous and that they understand why they do things or who they are. All we know are the personas that they present to the media and whatever leaks out about them.

I don't know Jerry Jones and I don't know Bob McNair. I know that it's been said that they're friends, but I don't know that.

I'll make fun of Jerry Jones simply because he's the enemy and he's someone you hear a lot about. If he owned a team like the Dolphins or the Chargers, I really wouldn't care about him at all.

But when it comes down to it, I really don't think they're that different. They're both guys who made a ton of money and they didn't do that by being sweet and nice. Both of those guys are ruthless and both of them want to win. They're going about it in different ways at this point, trying different strategies, but football is a diversion to them. This is Billionaire Boy Madden. I wouldn't be surprised if McNair gets fed up and goes the Jerry route, firing Smith and becoming the GM himself or putting his son in that position; I wouldn't be surprised that he chucks the whole "patience is a virtue" approach and tries the Dan Snyder route.

That doesn't matter to me. I have a team I root for so I root for them. Thinking that you're digging deeper and connecting dots is simply a diversion. If it makes you happy, then great. But it's like writing fiction, you're just making up stories that fit the facts you choose to fit. It's not reality.

disaacks3
07-15-2014, 01:14 PM
Some folks can handle the the truth and some folks can't. Go somewhere else if you need someone to blow Texans smoke up your hiney.

The fact that I make you feel like a simpleton is your problem not mine.

Clearly this comment is a result of your minimum wage mentality.

Let me explain it another way that you might understand;

Noticing a trend? The amount of condecension displayed in here has made most (if not all) discard any potential "pearls of wisdom" you hope to impart.

THAT attitude is what gets you "treated like a leper", not any mythical "love fest" that you alone perceive.

"Salary Cap Hell" and Texans success isn't as fully intertwined as you would have folks believe. Injuries and hubris in the Texans F.O. are just as responsible, without bringing financials into the discussion.

htownfan32
07-15-2014, 01:20 PM
http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/684/617/9e3.png


Just ignore the condescension, y'all.

EllisUnit
07-15-2014, 01:22 PM
And??? he got his ass handed to him the following week by a 6-10 carolina panther team......at home no less. Where was this "grit" you spoke of for the 2011 team then?

Yeah but we went into Baltimore and lost 20-13 with TJ Yates at QB. People can say what they want but that year our defense was playing really good football, and the offense was loaded. I believe we would of won with Schaub.

And why are people dogging the texans for taking advantage of a division without Manning ? Anyone could of taken advantage of it, the titans, jags but it was us.

And then last season every aspect of our team was bad, QB play, D-line minus Watt, the entire secondary. The LB corp was depleted, and we had Newton over there giving a free pass to everyone he faced. I blame our play more on the coaching than the players TBH.

Texian
07-15-2014, 01:29 PM
A huge mistake people make is thinking that they know someone famous and that they understand why they do things or who they are. All we know are the personas that they present to the media and whatever leaks out about them.

I don't know Jerry Jones and I don't know Bob McNair. I know that it's been said that they're friends, but I don't know that.

I'll make fun of Jerry Jones simply because he's the enemy and he's someone you hear a lot about. If he owned a team like the Dolphins or the Chargers, I really wouldn't care about him at all.

But when it comes down to it, I really don't think they're that different. They're both guys who made a ton of money and they didn't do that by being sweet and nice. Both of those guys are ruthless and both of them want to win. They're going about it in different ways at this point, trying different strategies, but football is a diversion to them. This is Billionaire Boy Madden. I wouldn't be surprised if McNair gets fed up and goes the Jerry route, firing Smith and becoming the GM himself or putting his son in that position; I wouldn't be surprised that he chucks the whole "patience is a virtue" approach and tries the Dan Snyder route.

That doesn't matter to me. I have a team I root for so I root for them. Thinking that you're digging deeper and connecting dots is simply a diversion. If it makes you happy, then great. But it's like writing fiction, you're just making up stories that fit the facts you choose to fit. It's not reality.

Wade is on record saying he was never consulted on the decision to sign Reed. That's a fact and a reality.

Our opinions defer in that I believe Bob is already the defacto GM and Smith is really Bob's assistant. The difference is, unlike Jerry, Bob prefers being a silent GM.

Another difference is I believe the "Patience is a virtue" is a myth. Some of the player signings and new contract timings is anything but patience. I get a sense there is real expediency to get things done. A Win Now at All Cost attitude.

Scooter
07-15-2014, 01:31 PM
Nope, what I said is the herd (group think) is often wrong. Where I was right was my last sentence in my last response to you. Let me explain it another way that you might understand;

This message board for the most part is a love fest for the Houston Texans. If you come here and don't want to play by those rules and want to discuss their warts and short comings, then you are going to be on the outside looking in. It won't be tolerated! Expect to be treated like a leper. Expect the objective sports announcer syndrome. I understand that!

i dont even know how to respond to such an asinine statement. congrats on being the 3rd ignore since 2002. my apologies for quoting, hopefully yall got a good view of 'wtf'.

Texian
07-15-2014, 01:34 PM
Noticing a trend?

Absolutely, all are responses to the snarky. Nothing more, nothing less. Although I did notice you presented those out of context to try and make a point without telling the whole truth.

drs23
07-15-2014, 01:36 PM
I wish to apologize in advance as well as ask forgiveness for getting OFF TOPIC, but has Akeem Dent passed his physical yet? Is he a full fledged team member?

We now return you to your regularly scheduled broadcast... :cheese:

Texian
07-15-2014, 01:36 PM
i dont even know how to respond to such an asinine statement. congrats on being the 3rd ignore since 2002. my apologies for quoting, hopefully yall got a good view of 'wtf'.

Then don't respond and Congrats on finding the IGNORE button. I do hope you use it. No cheating now.....

Scooter
07-15-2014, 01:42 PM
I wish to apologize in advance as well as ask forgiveness for getting OFF TOPIC, but has Akeem Dent passed his physical yet? Is he a full fledged team member?

We now return you to your regularly scheduled broadcast... :cheese:

lol apologies for contributing to the decay. i havent heard anything otherwise, and doc hasnt shown up, so i assume he's clear. the trade's finalized so he's a texan.

Thorn
07-15-2014, 01:53 PM
Just ignore the condescension, y'all.

Thorn: I can't ignore it.
htown: Why not?
Thorn: Because I'm right. Always. I'm never wrong.
htown: That's not possible.
Thorn: It is possible. I am incredibly smart and good looking.
htown: We see no evidence of that in what you post here
Thorn: It's because I'm so smart, you can't understand how smart I am.
htown: Well, there's another one for my ignore list
Thorn: I'm not from this planet, you can't ignore me.
htown: :smiliepalm:
Thorn: :neener:

DBCooper
07-15-2014, 02:00 PM
Noticing a trend? The amount of condecension displayed in here has made most (if not all) discard any potential "pearls of wisdom" you hope to impart.

THAT attitude is what gets you "treated like a leper", not any mythical "love fest" that you alone perceive.

"Salary Cap Hell" and Texans success isn't as fully intertwined as you would have folks believe. Injuries and hubris in the Texans F.O. are just as responsible, without bringing financials into the discussion.

No doubt.

I think just about everyone understands our position going into this season.

No QB, maybe no #1 WR, new coaches, lack of depth at LB, new systems in all phases......

We are aware of the front office decisions but not the information used to make those decisions.

I'm not happy with the way this team has been built since its inception.

Is it McNairs fault? Smiths? Kubiak?

It doesn't matter, I can't make a single decision for these guys, and I'm not going to waste my time second guessing them.

I'm going to hope for the best and cheer on my Texans no matter what!

DBCooper
07-15-2014, 02:07 PM
Thorn: I can't ignore it.
htown: Why not?
Thorn: Because I'm right. Always. I'm never wrong.
htown: That's not possible.
Thorn: It is possible. I am incredibly smart and good looking.
htown: We see no evidence of that in what you post here
Thorn: It's because I'm so smart, you can't understand how smart I am.
htown: Well, there's another one for my ignore list
Thorn: I'm not from this planet, you can't ignore me.
htown: :smiliepalm:
Thorn: :neener:

Don't forget "long flowing locks"!

HOU-TEX
07-15-2014, 02:20 PM
No doubt.

I think just about everyone understands our position going into this season.

No QB, maybe no #1 WR, new coaches, lack of depth at LB, new systems in all phases......

We are aware of the front office decisions but not the information used to make those decisions.

I'm not happy with the way this team has been built since its inception.

Is it McNairs fault? Smiths? Kubiak?

It doesn't matter, I can't make a single decision for these guys, and I'm not going to waste my time second guessing them.

I'm going to hope for the best and cheer on my Texans no matter what!

Right on, MSR.

I think a majority have voiced their displeasure with the franchise. The majority also understands when it's time to move on to the next season and hope for the best. I'm not expecting a great year this season, but there's always that glimmer of hope that'll keep me glued to the TV, articles, TC videos, etc. Heck, if you don't feel that 'glimmer of hope', why watch/follow the team?

Eh, I reckon some just like beating the horse senseless. We've heard your POV. Move on

Thorn
07-15-2014, 02:30 PM
Right on, MSR.



I got him for ya. :)

I to will support my Texans as well. And I will either love or hate them for what they did on their previous play, but I always return for more.

We're not Cleveland you know. LOL

Edit: I can't rep him either. Oops.