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steelbtexan
06-11-2014, 10:10 PM
Started off with a 2-14 team, ended up with a 2-14 team. A few good times and got fired with a little more talent than he started with. Tell me how the 8 yrs of Kubiak wasn't a failure and what makes you think the BOB yrs under McNair will be better?

I've moved on from the Kubiak yrs despite backstabbing Smith being allowed to leetch off of McNair. (Cal in particular.)

silvrhand
06-11-2014, 10:35 PM
Disagree we had a lot more talent on this team than he started with.

Marcus
06-11-2014, 11:11 PM
I've moved on from the Kubiak yrs . . . .

:rolleyes: It doesn't look like that to me.

Instead of "moving on", you want to keep dwelling on the past in order to keep taking shots at "BOB". You're not fooling anyone.

PapaL
06-11-2014, 11:21 PM
Not going to get over Smith still being here or even acknowledge this draft huh?

thunderkyss
06-11-2014, 11:59 PM
Started off with a 2-14 team, ended up with a 2-14 team. A few good times and got fired with a little more talent than he started with. Tell me how the 8 yrs of Kubiak wasn't a failure and what makes you think the BOB yrs under McNair will be better?

I've moved on from the Kubiak yrs despite backstabbing Smith being allowed to leetch off of McNair. (Cal in particular.)

The team Kubiak took over was a failed expansion team.

The only thing worse than coaching an expansion team, imo, is coaching a failed expansion team. If you've ever been a coach, you should know how hard it is to sell your team on the idea that they can win. After four years of losing, he had his work cut out for him & I doubt he had more than 8 people in the whole organization who believed the Texans could win. & that's counting Kubiak as one of the 8.

In just two years, he stopped the losing (if only for a little while) & by year four, he had a winning team that had a shot at a play off berth until the late games on the final day of the regular season.

Maybe not enough for the "Super Bowl or bust" guys, or the people who think every team should have a Super Bowl appearance in any 12 year period, but that's a lot.

Further more, in only six years, that failed expansion team won the division. In his seventh year, he had them thinking they could win the Super Bowl. In his eight year, he had "everybody" (not just the people in the organization) thinking the failed expansion team he took over could win the Super Bowl.

He shat the bed in his 8th season, but this team is primed to become the next 49ers, Seahawks, or Ravens.

leebigeztx
06-12-2014, 12:43 AM
Seahawks been around since 76 and they won their 1st superbowl. jaguars and panthers came in the same yr,94 I believe and neither have won a bowl either. The great steelers organization went 30 some yrs before they were worth a damn.

chicagotexan2
06-12-2014, 12:52 AM
Kubak a tenure was average overall. I do think Rick smith had a lot to do with that and he should have been fired along with Gary. I hope that obrien can shape this team into a winner but I worry that no other belichek disciple has had much success in the nfl. I like Kubiak and as a Houstonian I wish he'd succeeded here but that didn't happen and I've moved on.

Norg
06-12-2014, 01:58 AM
they wont be lets get rdy for 4 more years a nothingness cept local memories LOL

steelbtexan
06-12-2014, 02:25 AM
Disagree we had a lot more talent on this team than he started with.

Agreed

Get well soon Ques

steelbtexan
06-12-2014, 02:34 AM
:rolleyes: It doesn't look like that to me.

Instead of "moving on", you want to keep dwelling on the past in order to keep taking shots at "BOB". You're not fooling anyone.

Not smart enough to fool anybody.

As you once told me just because things didn't work out the way you wanted, doesn't mean you have to be so bitter.

I actually think McNair has finally made a GREAT hire if Smith doesn't undermine O'Brien.

Just because you were wrong about the Smithiak era doesn't mean that you have to be so bitter. It's not healthy to be that way.

Get well soon Ques

thunderkyss
06-12-2014, 04:22 AM
I actually think McNair has finally made a GREAT hire if Smith doesn't undermine O'Brien.


I think I know what you're talking about, but to be sure, can you give us an example of when Smith undermined Kubiak?

Troy Chapman
06-12-2014, 08:32 AM
I think I know what you're talking about, but to be sure, can you give us an example of when Smith undermined Kubiak?

Same question I have.

Texian
06-12-2014, 09:32 AM
I'm beginning to think that Bob is the problem here. May be the nicest owner in the NFL but his business plan, organization and many decisions are flawed.

disaacks3
06-12-2014, 09:37 AM
I'm beginning to think that Bob is the problem here. May be the nicest owner in the NFL but his business plan, organization and many decisions are flawed. Only if you're looking at it from a Win/Loss perspective and not a revenue one. :kitten:

infantrycak
06-12-2014, 10:34 AM
Only if you're looking at it from a Win/Loss perspective and not a revenue one. :kitten:

The implied dichotomy leaves out a significant factor in football - luck.

Double Barrel
06-12-2014, 11:03 AM
31 teams fail every season. The degrees of failure is subjective, but there is only one team every season that can truly consider itself successful.

I'm not a Kubiak apologists, but c'mon, it's not like we are long suffering Saints fans that had to endure 20 years before seeing a winning record.

And while back-to-back division "championships" is nothing to hang your hat on, I'll still take it over the alternative of never going to the playoffs.

I'm curious about the point of this thread? Do we really need yet another place to gripe and moan about the past? To paraphrase Pantera:

Yesterday don't mean ****
What's over is over and nothing between
Yesterday don't mean ****
Because tomorrow's the day you have to face

There's no rewinding time
Reliving old reviews is a useless tool of confusion
Don't hold your breath for the turn-around
Come into the world of endless odds...

Marcus
06-12-2014, 11:12 AM
I'm curious about the point of this thread? Do we really need yet another place to gripe and moan about the past?

The OP knows good and well what the point of this thread is. He's just too much of a chicken sh!t to actually say it.

xtruroyaltyx
06-12-2014, 11:15 AM
Kubiak's years had some success...quite a bit of failure.

But failure is a part of life. Success wouldn't feel as good if there was no failure. Hopefully, the organization has learned from it's past mistakes.

What will make BOB different? Well, we know his style will be different. We know his approach will be different. But impossible to say that it will lead to better results at the end of his tenure.

Playoffs
06-12-2014, 11:34 AM
http://youtu.be/3JWTaaS7LdU?t=44s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H1Yt0xJKDY8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlJtQLg4bpU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O1-4u9W-bns

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ExWsVFJlFo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6kiHBFwGsUE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-nyeiKk35M

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mb9QE_QZb_g

HJam72
06-12-2014, 11:48 AM
31 teams fail every season. The degrees of failure is subjective, but there is only one team every season that can truly consider itself successful.

I'm not a Kubiak apologists, but c'mon, it's not like we are long suffering Saints fans that had to endure 20 years before seeing a winning record.

And while back-to-back division "championships" is nothing to hang your hat on, I'll still take it over the alternative of never going to the playoffs.

I'm curious about the point of this thread? Do we really need yet another place to gripe and moan about the past? To paraphrase Pantera:

Yesterday don't mean ****
What's over is over and nothing between
Yesterday don't mean ****
Because tomorrow's the day you have to face

There's no rewinding time
Reliving old reviews is a useless tool of confusion
Don't hold your breath for the turn-around
Come into the world of endless odds...

I agree, especially with the bolded. 12 years of football, IIR the number correctly, is not enough to gripe about not having a Superbowl win. Kubiak did a good job of taking us from bad to good and, looking at our short time in the NFL and what he took over, I can't crucify the guy for not winning it all. The way he lost the team last year, and probably not trying to find Schaub's eventual replacement at some point in one of those offseasons, got him rightfully fired, but I don't really blame him for anything major except last year's collapse and our having to move on from him.

Even that is subjective. The one sure thing about being a head coach in the NFL is that your job is always in jeopardy.

Texian
06-12-2014, 12:35 PM
To date Kubiak is the most successful head coach the Texans have ever had. Kubiak's success could've been even better if he had a strong GM with control over all football operations with a long term vision.

Double Barrel
06-12-2014, 12:45 PM
I agree, especially with the bolded. 12 years of football, IIR the number correctly, is not enough to gripe about not having a Superbowl win. Kubiak did a good job of taking us from bad to good and, looking at our short time in the NFL and what he took over, I can't crucify the guy for not winning it all. The way he lost the team last year, and probably not trying to find Schaub's eventual replacement at some point in one of those offseasons, got him rightfully fired, but I don't really blame him for anything major except last year's collapse and our having to move on from him.

Even that is subjective. The one sure thing about being a head coach in the NFL is that your job is always in jeopardy.



Great points, man.

And your last statement reminded me of this quote:

"There's two kinds of coaches, them that's fired and them that's gonna be fired."
~ Bum Phillips

drs23
06-12-2014, 01:15 PM
DELETE.

DB beat me to it.

kingtexan
06-12-2014, 01:25 PM
To date Kubiak is the most successful head coach the Texans have ever had.

Sample size of two ... not saying much.

Texian
06-12-2014, 02:46 PM
Only if you're looking at it from a Win/Loss perspective and not a revenue one. :kitten:

No question Bob makes more money than most. Fielding Championship football teams, not so much. If fielding a championship football team is Bob's priority, he should hire Eliot Wolf or Erica DeCosta and then get the heck out of the way.

Giant Tiger
06-12-2014, 04:11 PM
This hockey commercial makes me think of Kubiak :hmmm:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1Ah_hZCEpk

steelbtexan
06-12-2014, 06:59 PM
The OP knows good and well what the point of this thread is. He's just too much of a chicken sh!t to actually say it.

Not scared, just bust with work. Smith saved his own butt by throwing Kubiak under the bus and playing the political game. (Godfather/Gala's etc.... I wonder how many gala's Ozzie attends?)

The reason I started this thread is I want peoples opinions on what has changed and what makes them think this regime will turn out differently than the last. These are legitimate questions. IMHO They aren't IYO, and this is one of the places we disagree. Sorry that Smthiak didn't turn out well. Even though you piled on basically saying that I didn't know what I was talking about when I said the Gary/Wade combo would never win a SB. You sir are a front runner.

Trust me when I tell you if you want to get in the gutter I can but wont get in there with the best of them. My time is spent on better things. BTW, whatever happened to the attack the post but not the poster motto that used to be the rule around here. I'm surprised that I-cak didn't remove your inappropriate post. (Actually I'm not, because he probably agrees with you)

I know it's hard for you to stay classy but would appreciate it if you would make an effort. I try to stay above board and would suggest you do the same. I'm not asking you to agree with my posts or opinions. However my opinions are just as valid as yours and these differing opinions are what make this MB great. Or maybe you just love being the MB tough guy?

Stay classy my friend, peace out.

Get well soon Q

Double Barrel
06-12-2014, 07:26 PM
The reason I started this thread is I want peoples opinions on what has changed and what makes them think this regime will turn out differently than the last. These are legitimate questions.

For me, it's all blind hope and optimism at this point. O'Brien does not have a track record as NFL HC, so we can only speculate and choose to be optimistic or pessimistic (or our own sense of 'realistic').

I'm not the happiest shiniest fan, and tbh, the QB situation could really make me wonder what the heck is going on. AJ is probably thinking the same thing right now. For the life of me, I simply cannot be positive about Fitzpatrick...or any of the other QBs at this point.

What does give me hope is RAC and some solid talent at various positions, both offense and defense. Having a superstar like Watt is huge. While he can't do it alone, his talent, drive, and leadership can do wonders with a great DC like RAC. I actually think our defense will be top 10 this year. Blind optimism, for sure, but at least there is something to base it on.

But on offense, that QB position is where it's at, and right now, all we can do is hope O'Brien turns lemons into lemonade.

steelbtexan
06-12-2014, 07:57 PM
For me, it's all blind hope and optimism at this point. O'Brien does not have a track record as NFL HC, so we can only speculate and choose to be optimistic or pessimistic (or our own sense of 'realistic').

I'm not the happiest shiniest fan, and tbh, the QB situation could really make me wonder what the heck is going on. AJ is probably thinking the same thing right now. For the life of me, I simply cannot be positive about Fitzpatrick...or any of the other QBs at this point.

What does give me hope is RAC and some solid talent at various positions, both offense and defense. Having a superstar like Watt is huge. While he can't do it alone, his talent, drive, and leadership can do wonders with a great DC like RAC. I actually think our defense will be top 10 this year. Blind optimism, for sure, but at least there is something to base it on.

But on offense, that QB position is where it's at, and right now, all we can do is hope O'Brien turns lemons into lemonade.

Thanks for the reply

I'm very optimistic. The Texans finally did what I wanted them to do for yrs. Fix the trenches. For me this yr is about finding out if Savage is the QB of the future. If he's not then trading up and getting the franchise QB is priority #1 in the 2015 draft. IMHO

Seegara
06-12-2014, 08:45 PM
Started off with a 2-14 team, ended up with a 2-14 team. A few good times and got fired with a little more talent than he started with. Tell me how the 8 yrs of Kubiak wasn't a failure and what makes you think the BOB yrs under McNair will be better?

I've moved on from the Kubiak yrs despite backstabbing Smith being allowed to leetch off of McNair. (Cal in particular.)
I think BoB will be an average NFL coach and that should be adequate. Just so we're not saddled with somebody in way over his head. With the possible exceptions of Bill Peterson and Jerry Glanville, Kubes had to be the worst head coach that ever came down the pipe.

Texian
06-12-2014, 09:50 PM
what makes you think the BOB yrs under McNair will be better?

I don't. Belichick assistants are 0-9 in measured success and BOB is a BB assistant and has loaded his staff w/ BB assistants. Kubiak was saddled with Rick Smith and the scouting department and BOB is saddled with Rick Smith and the same scouting department. (nothing changed there) Everyone says how BOB is a QB Guru. I don't understand why. Because he coached Brady? Brady was Brady before BOB. Kubiak coached Young and Elway. I'm not sure that Kubiak isn't the better QB Coach. Hiring a 17 - 9 college coach is one of the weaker hires in the NFL of a college coach. Fans of BOB say he has a genius football IQ, I don't see it so we will have to see. Early indicators suggest the all to familiar outcome for another Belichick assistant. I'm not sure that Kraft and Belichick didn't orchestrate BOB's departure out of NE after the sideline incident with Brady and convinced Penn St to hire BOB. And I'm not sure that Kraft hoodwinked his old buddy Bob one more time with advice that BOB would be his best hire out there. When Bob laid out his parameters for finding a new HC (Kubiak's firing PC), they fit perfectly with BOB's resume. Almost as if Bob already had his mind made up about BOB. That mindset and pattern of behavior kind of goes hand in hand with the pursuit and signing of Ed Reed. I wouldn't be surprised if the comparison produced similar results.

Marshall
06-12-2014, 11:24 PM
I don't. Belichick assistants are 0-9 in measured success and BOB is a BB assistant and has loaded his staff w/ BB assistants. Kubiak was saddled with Rick Smith and the scouting department and BOB is saddled with Rick Smith and the same scouting department. (nothing changed there) Everyone says how BOB is a QB Guru. I don't understand why. Because he coached Brady? Brady was Brady before BOB. Kubiak coached Young and Elway. I'm not sure that Kubiak isn't the better QB Coach. Hiring a 17 - 9 college coach is one of the weaker hires in the NFL of a college coach. Fans of BOB say he has a genius football IQ, I don't see it so we will have to see. Early indicators suggest the all to familiar outcome for another Belichick assistant. I'm not sure that Kraft and Belichick didn't orchestrate BOB's departure out of NE after the sideline incident with Brady and convinced Penn St to hire BOB. And I'm not sure that Kraft hoodwinked his old buddy Bob one more time with advice that BOB would be his best hire out there. When Bob laid out his parameters for finding a new HC (Kubiak's firing PC), they fit perfectly with BOB's resume. Almost as if Bob already had his mind made up about BOB. That mindset and pattern of behavior kind of goes hand in hand with the pursuit and signing of Ed Reed. I wouldn't be surprised if the comparison produced similar results.

I'm the eternal optimist. I always expect us to go all the way until we're knocked out. I was that way with the Astros until they hired Wade, who never got over being fired at Philadelphia. He was always trying to turn us into them, something I've had problems with since the Atlanta love days in local Houston politics beginning with Whitmire

Be HOUSTON, not a copy of someone else and that includes New England.

Texan_Bill
06-12-2014, 11:46 PM
I think we played hard but we didn't do the right things "AND THAT'S ON ME"..... ~ Gary Kubiak

Sure, we heard that too often from Kubiak, but to suggest he didn't elevate this team from the one he took over is asinine.

Last season was an anomaly in my opinion.... Somehow last year's team fragmented and "Murphy's Law" applied.

It wasn't ALL on Kubiak. It wasn't on Wade after that. It wasn't on injuries. It wasn't on the offensive line. It wasn't on the loss of Cushing (again - and again from a cheap shot to the knee). It wasn't about JJo playing injured and so forth and so on!!



Irish folks say, that "if I didn't have bad luck, I would have no luck at at all"


***********
I actually look forward to a pretty good season, even with Ryan Fitzpatrick at the helm...........

As an aside, Rick Smith, get your shyte together and talk AJ into camp. THAT'S ON YOUR WATCH!!!!!

houstonspartan
06-13-2014, 12:03 AM
Wow, I'm shocked that we're still discussing the massive failure that was the Gary Kubiak years...

There is a difference between wanting to win and hating to lose. In theory, everyone wants to win. It's human nature. However, it's hating to lose that sets people apart, especially in sports.

Kubiak didn't seem to be bothered by losing. I think his entire career as a backup QB instilled a mentality of being ok with second place, and he took that into his coaching career. So, as a head coach, he coached from a place of fear and worry, instead of a place of not wanting to experience losing.

If we lose? Hey, that's ok. At least we tried! We'll get 'em next time!

That's Gary Kubiak's mindset. The guy is not a loser, but, he's not a winner, either.

We don't know how Bill O'Brien will be as a coach; but, I can tell that at the very least he seems like someone who isn't afraid to FIRE PEOPLE. That was a trait that Kubiak lacked.

One day in the future, sports analysts will look back at which coaches were given time, money, resources, lots of good talent, and failed to capitalize on what they had. That analysis will not be kind to Gary Kubiak.

thunderkyss
06-13-2014, 12:46 AM
And while back-to-back division "championships" is nothing to hang your hat on, I'll still take it over the alternative of never going to the playoffs.




FYI (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlanta_Falcons):
The Atlanta Falcons hold the record among all major American sports leagues for the longest streak of seasons without consecutive winning seasons, a streak that lasted from 19662008. Although they failed to make the playoffs in 2009, the streak ended when the team rallied to win their final three regular season games to record back-to-back winning seasons for the first time in franchise history. The Falcons defeated the Tampa Bay Buccaneers 2010 in the final game of the season to improve their record to 97.

thunderkyss
06-13-2014, 01:18 AM
Thanks for the reply

I'm very optimistic. The Texans finally did what I wanted them to do for yrs. Fix the trenches. For me this yr is about finding out if Savage is the QB of the future. If he's not then trading up and getting the franchise QB is priority #1 in the 2015 draft. IMHO

I remember back in 2006, the Broncos were in need of a QB. Two of the best QBs from the previous NCAA season were in that draft, at one time or another, both were thought of as top 5 prospects at one time or another.

Even if they could have afforded it, I doubt they would have traded up for either one of them.

Instead, Shanahan "knew" Jay Cutler was the best QB in that draft, even though no one was talking about him, even though he did not have as good a season, or career for that matter, as the other two.

With the benefit of hindsight we can see he was right. Vince didn't have anything once he got by his talent. He didn't have the ability (want to) to improve his skills, or the heart to stick in there when the going gets tough & Matt Lienart didn't have the desire to be anything special.

My point, is I don't care if we don't take a QB next season. If OB/Smith doesn't see a franchise QB in next years draft, I'm fine with that. But I see QBs that aren't ever going to win a Super Bowl in the play offs every year. So if he decides not to take a QB, he better:


Find a way to win regardless
Be right & there isn't a franchise QB in the group

thunderkyss
06-13-2014, 01:40 AM
I don't. Belichick assistants are 0-9 in measured success and BOB is a BB assistant and has loaded his staff w/ BB assistants.

Why did those 9 fail? Is OB doing any of the same things that lead to the failure of the 9?

DexmanC
06-13-2014, 03:17 AM
Meh. The last 3 years of the Kubiak regime was like watching "Groundhog Day." O'Brien's "strictly business" tack with this team is refreshing to see, and I want to see how this season plays out.

Kubiak's teams lacked discipline in the closing moments of games, and in his final year, they quit on him altogether. Discipline, Gameplanning, Execution is what I want from this season. I know Kubiak was NOT the man to bring that to this team.

Texian
06-13-2014, 09:02 AM
Why did those 9 fail? Is OB doing any of the same things that lead to the failure of the 9?

You could say the same thing about the 9 Belichick assistants when they were first hired. Pattern of Behavior.

Texian
06-13-2014, 09:37 AM
I'm the eternal optimist. I always expect us to go all the way until we're knocked out. I was that way with the Astros until they hired Wade, who never got over being fired at Philadelphia. He was always trying to turn us into them, something I've had problems with since the Atlanta love days in local Houston politics beginning with Whitmire

Be HOUSTON, not a copy of someone else and that includes New England.

As a young man I was that way too. Over the years I have learned that is OFTEN not the case. I also realized that most of these guys are PE teachers and not rocket scientist. They make as many mistakes as all other humans and are guilty of their fair share of flawed thinking. What I also learned is there is usually a handful of guys who know how to win more games than the rest of the collective bunch.

santo
06-13-2014, 11:26 AM
It's better to live with hope than with no hope at all.

Until O'Brien starts messing things up, then I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt this year. I'm getting more excited as the season goes on, with RC working with Clowney and JJ, to Foster being back 100% to building the o-line to resemble the Wall from the Game of Thrones.

Sure, the qb is a big question mark at this moment, but if O'Brien can install a team offense where everybody is on the same page and willing to work hard without pouting that they are not getting the stats they deserve, then I'm all on board.

:koolaid::fans:

thunderkyss
06-13-2014, 12:19 PM
You could say the same thing about the 9 Belichick assistants when they were first hired. Pattern of Behavior.

I didn't say anything, I was asking a question... is there a "pattern of behavior" & if so, is OB following that pattern?

drs23
06-13-2014, 01:30 PM
I think BoB will be an average NFL coach and that should be adequate. Just so we're not saddled with somebody in way over his head. With the possible exceptions of Bill Peterson and Jerry Glanville, Kubes had to be the worst head coach that ever came down the pipe.

Really? You think these guys were worse than Huge Gamble? hmph...

xtruroyaltyx
06-13-2014, 05:02 PM
Someone needs to send this thread to AJ so he knows that the past wasn't really all that bad.

All things considered, he's had it pretty good. Getting paid millions...And hey...he made the play-offs a couple times...won the division....