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thunderkyss
06-07-2014, 05:17 AM
Which NFL teams have the best collections of players? (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/11012674/nfl-ranking-rosters-all-32-teams)

http://espn.go.com/charts/2014/0602/nfl_starting-lineups-HOU.png
Key: Blue=Elite; Green=High quality; Light green=Good starter; Yellow=Average starter; Orange=Below-average starter; Red=Poor starter; Gray=Not enough information; Purple=Rookie
25. Houston Texans
http://a.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=/i/teamlogos/nfl/500/hou.png?w=50&h=50&transparent=true
Excitement is in the air in Houston at the prospect of teaming Jadeveon Clowney with J.J. Watt and unleashing destruction on opposing offenses, but the problem is that the roster is riddled with issues everywhere else.

Watt was the best player in football a year ago and a virtually unstoppable force inside, generating 85 total pressures and earning them at a rate of one every 6.1 rushing attempts -- a rate better than anybody not named Robert Quinn -- and yet the Texans still stumbled to just two wins on the season. Clowney will no doubt help, but the team needs a revamp elsewhere. The offensive line, not far removed from being the best unit in football, is suddenly a questionable entity now that they are moving away from the zone-blocking scheme that they executed so well. The defensive secondary is talented but inconsistent, and the biggest problem of all is that there is still no real answer at quarterback, with Ryan Fitzpatrick being a caretaker at best.

By the numbers: The Texans span the entire color-coded spectrum, with their projected starters featuring everything from a pair of blue-chippers to a rookie and a player in Jerrell Powe whom we just have not seen enough snaps to accurately quantify. The real issue, though, is with below-average players. Eight of them (33.3 percent) currently occupy places among the starting lineups.


FYI (if you're not an insider); Colts lead the AFC South at 12, Robert Mathis is their only elite player. Titans are 21st, & Jacksonville is 32nd.

Cowboys are 18th with no elite players.

Top ten:

Seahawks
49ers
Broncos
Saints
Eagles
Patriots
Bengals
Packers
Cardinals
Native Americans wearing big feathered headdresses

EllisUnit
06-07-2014, 08:19 AM
Which NFL teams have the best collections of players? (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/11012674/nfl-ranking-rosters-all-32-teams)


FYI (if you're not an insider); Colts lead the AFC South at 12, Robert Mathis is their only elite player. Titans are 21st, & Jacksonville is 32nd.

Cowboys are 18th with no elite players.

Top ten:

Seahawks
49ers
Broncos
Saints
Eagles
Patriots
Bengals
Packers
Cardinals
Native Americans wearing big feathered headdresses


Sounds like a BS favoritism list to me. I hate ignorant writers !

EllisUnit
06-07-2014, 08:21 AM
And how can you not list D. Brown, Foster and Cushing as elite players ? This whole list is just bad opinion.

thunderkyss
06-07-2014, 08:33 AM
And how can you not list D. Brown, Foster and Cushing as elite players ? This whole list is just bad opinion.

They're actually just putting together the numbers PFF (https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2014/05/27/2014-depth-chart-houston-texans/)puts out... PFF who we all love because their stats show Jj Watt as the best defensive player in the league two years running, they're also the first to call DBrown Elite, outside of Houston... DB had an off year & Cush (& Arian) had season ending injuries.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/2014-depth-HOU1.png

b0ng
06-07-2014, 08:35 AM
And how can you not list D. Brown, Foster and Cushing as elite players ? This whole list is just bad opinion.

Foster and Cushing both had bad injuries, and Brown wasnt as good last year as previous seasons. I don't really agree but with how quickly players fall off it's not a terrible argument or opinion.

infantrycak
06-07-2014, 08:37 AM
Foster and Cushing both had bad injuries, and Brown wasnt as good last year as previous seasons. I don't really agree but with how quickly players fall off it's not a terrible argument or opinion.

True. Seems their desire to be up to date would include shifting Reed to not enough information instead of using his rating as an OLB.

thunderkyss
06-07-2014, 08:46 AM
Foster and Cushing both had bad injuries, and Brown wasnt as good last year as previous seasons. I don't really agree but with how quickly players fall off it's not a terrible argument or opinion.

True... the only thing I can fault them with is that they're focused on the past season, giving no consideration to previous seasons. But... they did the same with all teams, all players. Julio Jones is elite... Dez Bryant is elite... They're not showing it that way.

Would be nice to see the same "study" done looking through a three or four year window.

EllisUnit
06-07-2014, 08:51 AM
True... the only thing I can fault them with is that they're focused on the past season, giving no consideration to previous seasons. But... they did the same with all teams, all players. Julio Jones is elite... Dez Bryant is elite... They're not showing it that way.

Would be nice to see the same "study" done looking through a three or four year window.

I just dont agree that we have the 25th best Roster, D Brown had an off year, Arian is back looks healthy and Cush is back. Jo Jo also had an off year, and i think KJ is better than they are giving him credit for.

Showtime100
06-07-2014, 08:57 AM
"ESPN says" and he starts a thread. Joke.

76Texan
06-07-2014, 11:00 AM
I think it's somewhat fair, but JC should at least move them up a place or two.
They might want to consider all the involved factors such a fiercer pass rush can help put the secondary in a better position or a better running game can help elevate other players as well.


For example, when the Texans can grind it out more, Newton won't look so bad as there are fewer pass snaps to help put him in the red.

Texian
06-07-2014, 11:15 AM
For example, when the Texans can grind it out more, Newton won't look so bad as there are fewer pass snaps to help put him in the red.

From my understanding, O'Brien likes to throw more than Kubiak. Kubiak always strived for a 50%-50% run-pass ratio.

Playoffs
06-07-2014, 11:25 AM
I agree with the individual player ratings for us -- outside of the fact that Griffin is a Y & Graham is an H/move -- but I don't necessarily agree with the overall roster rankings. I think we're getting dinged harder for QB spot, which is understandable. I'll be surprised if Xavier Sua-Filo isn't starting at LG.

As I've stated many time before, our problem is with depth at a number of positions. A key injury could derail our season. I think we're a draft away from being ready to address the realities of a football season and contend.

drs23
06-07-2014, 11:54 AM
From my understanding, O'Brien likes to throw more than Kubiak. Kubiak always strived for a 50%-50% run-pass ratio.

And I would agree. (Did I just type that?) BUT and there's always a BUT he KNOWS he can't do that this season. So he stocked up on big nasties in the trenches because like all wise coaches he's been following the board and has heeded steelb's passionate rant about doing same. This team is built to run it down the opposition's throat and make them like it all the while stifling whatever they try to do as an offense.

When he does get *that guy* or groom one of the whippersnappers he already has in the fold the air raid will commence.

My opinion, as stated prior, is that that's not going to be until midseason at best. I believe it's going to take that long for the 0 to jell into a unit that can be trusted and has shown that they can be on the same page and think as one.

Till then: A Cloud -0- Dust!!

xtruroyaltyx
06-07-2014, 12:06 PM
The texans were 2-14 last season. Even if, like me, you think it was largely due to poor coaching and Matt Schaub imploding lots of players on this team didn't play well. Or didn't play as well as we think they should.

Of course they are going to rank us low.

I don't fully agree with their list. Really I think it's useless. But I get why they have us where we are.

eriadoc
06-07-2014, 12:21 PM
True... the only thing I can fault them with is that they're focused on the past season, giving no consideration to previous seasons. But... they did the same with all teams, all players.

Well, to be fair, they also aren't projecting things either. As in, how good will Cushing be after two consecutive knee surgeries? Some of the greatest players in the game have had their careers turn ordinary because of injury.

I'm a little more optimistic about the OL than they are, and I think a couple guys they listed as average or below average have some improvement in their future.

76Texan
06-07-2014, 12:50 PM
From my understanding, O'Brien likes to throw more than Kubiak. Kubiak always strived for a 50%-50% run-pass ratio.

There's no telling what the offense will actually look like.

Last year, Penn St. Averaged nearly 42 rushes as compared with 34 pass attempts.
(Without taking into accounts sacks and not knowing how many QB scrambles were supposed to be pass plays.) - with a Fr QB
The previous year, it was 40/38 in favor of the run. - with a Sr QB

He will probably have a more passing oriented offense for this level, but we don't know yet.
At any rate, I still think that the running game works, he'll stay with it more.
There's always the chance he'll call more pass plays to the RB, but that really is just an extension of the running game, IMO.

Playoffs
06-07-2014, 01:02 PM
League rank & passing play percentage: O'Brien compared to Texans
2011
14 New England 58.90%

31 Houston 47.77%
2010
11 Houston 58.89%

25 New England 54.70%
2009(Kyle Shanahan)
9 Houston 59.25%

14 New England 57.51%

assuming these stats are good: http://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stats/

b0ng
06-07-2014, 01:08 PM
If O'Brien is as committed to getting Foster more passes then I think that the pass run ratio is going to be higher than at least the last year of the Kubiak regime.

infantrycak
06-07-2014, 01:28 PM
League rank & passing play percentage: O'Brien compared to Texans
2011
14 New England 58.90%

31 Houston 47.77%
2010
11 Houston 58.89%

25 New England 54.70%
2009(Kyle Shanahan)
9 Houston 59.25%

14 New England 57.51%

assuming these stats are good: http://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stats/

2011 almost needs to be thrown out because the numbers are skewed by Schaub going down so they ran the hell out of the ball with Yates.

Playoffs
06-07-2014, 01:38 PM
2011 almost needs to be thrown out because the numbers are skewed by Schaub going down so they ran the hell out of the ball with Yates.

Yeah, good note, but it's rounds out the 3 years OB was calling plays in NE.


Interesting Passing Play Percentages/Rankings for 2013...
13 Denver 59.68%
18 New England 57.93%
31 San Francisco 47.77%
32 Seattle 47.29%

Goldensilence
06-07-2014, 02:07 PM
To be fair I don't think this fully reflects all the changes made this off season and doesn't project how players might come back from injuries or rookie performance.

Also has slated Reed inside, which I'm not sure has been a confirmed move. Either way it should go down as not enough information.

What it does project is who they feel will start and where. Preach could well be starter at FB and CJ is likely to push Graham and Griffin. More to come with TV to see if guys like Bullough press for IlB.

brg88tx
06-07-2014, 02:46 PM
shane lechler is elite

drs23
06-07-2014, 03:25 PM
To be fair I don't think this fully reflects all the changes made this off season and doesn't project how players might come back from injuries or rookie performance.

Also has slated Reed inside, which I'm not sure has been a confirmed move. Either way it should go down as not enough information.

What it does project is who they feel will start and where. Preach could well be starter at FB and CJ is likely to push Graham and Griffin. More to come with TV to see if guys like Bullough press for IlB.

Assuming you meant TC as in training camp? If so, I agree. If we're waiting until we see them on TV then I'm gonna be pissed. :bat:

ObsiWan
06-07-2014, 03:47 PM
And how can you not list D. Brown, Foster and Cushing as elite players ? This whole list is just bad opinion.
The fact that they don't rate Tom Brady as "elite" tells me all I need to know.

infantrycak
06-07-2014, 04:00 PM
The fact that they don't rate Tom Brady as "elite" tells me all I need to know.

Since it appears they are totally focused on last season, on that season alone Brady was not elite. Unfortunately my money would be that pissed him off and he will be again this season (that and folks hounding him about getting old and quitting).

Vinnie
06-07-2014, 04:06 PM
Since it appears they are totally focused on last season, on that season alone Brady was not elite. Unfortunately my money would be that pissed him off and he will be again this season (that and folks hounding him about getting old and quitting).

My money is on Tom Brady doesn't give an eff about what anyone thinks, writes, or otherwise.

badboy
06-07-2014, 04:20 PM
Shh be very very quiet! We are sneaking up on bunny rabbits and bopping them on the head.

Playoffs
06-07-2014, 04:49 PM
shane lechler is elite

True dat. :texans:

steelbtexan
06-07-2014, 05:56 PM
Which NFL teams have the best collections of players? (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/11012674/nfl-ranking-rosters-all-32-teams)


FYI (if you're not an insider); Colts lead the AFC South at 12, Robert Mathis is their only elite player. Titans are 21st, & Jacksonville is 32nd.

Cowboys are 18th with no elite players.

Top ten:

Seahawks
49ers
Broncos
Saints
Eagles
Patriots
Bengals
Packers
Cardinals
Native Americans wearing big feathered headdresses


Here's the way I see it, based off of last yr (Injuries included.)

Brown - is a green with a chance to be a blue. Due to injury and playing next to an injured W.Smith.

Foster- Should be a light green because he's coming off back surgery and you don't know how long it will be before his back goes out again.

Cushing- Who knows what his level of play will be or if he will get injured again. Light green seems fair.

Watt/AJ- Definitely Blue.
Fitzpatrick= Orange, I agree.
Griffin= Agreed/ Graham will be replaced by Fiedo so this grade should be a purple.

Hopkins- Yellow = Agreed with a chance for great improvement in yr 2.
Martin- Agreed. Luckily he will only be the KR/PR if he even makes the team. I look for Posey/Labhart/Bonner to take Martin's spot on the roster. So this position will be upgraded.

Jones- Orange= Agreed, but Su'a-Filo was drafted to be a major upgrade so I don't think this grade is fair.

Myers/Brooks- Light Green= Agreed, But I look for a big improvement from Brooks as a 2nd yr starter.

Newton-Red= Agreed, But he will get better or be replaced by Ques/Williams/Witzmann. I look for this position to be a lot better than most people think this yr.

Powe- Gray = Agreed, But I feel Nix, if healthy will become the best NT since the Texans inception. Massive upgrade.

Crick- Orange = Agreed, Crick has potential to be a light green, since this is his 1st real chance to get PT.

Reed- Red= Disagree. Reed should have been playing ILB all along. He will be a major upgrade. Great against the run and can cover the deep middle against TE's.

Mercilus- Orange= Agreed, Situational Pass rusher at best. I hope that Tarpinian (SP?) or Williams can beat Mercilus out. This position needs upgrading.

Joseph- Light green= Disagree, Joseph's play has really suffered due to injury the last couple of yrs. He has been playing at an orange level. But if healthy he could become a blue/green level player.

Jackson- Yellow = Agreed.
Harris- Orange= Agreed, he needs to improve majorly or be replaced.
Swearinger- Orange= Agreed, But if he can keep his head on his shoulders I look for Swearinger to be one of the most improved players on the roster.

Clemons- Agreed

Thoughts?

EllisUnit
06-07-2014, 07:41 PM
shane lechler is elite

yep he sure is. Guy dont know elite from non elite IMO

Number19
06-07-2014, 07:54 PM
...Thoughts?Your assessment of Mercilus may be a bit premature. This will be Mercilus' second year of starting, assuming he wins the opportunity, and traditionally OLB's make significant improvement in production this second year. He needs to develop a second move for his pass rush but if he can accomplish this he should surprise.

thunderkyss
06-07-2014, 07:58 PM
From my understanding, O'Brien likes to throw more than Kubiak. Kubiak always strived for a 50%-50% run-pass ratio.

And I would agree. (Did I just type that?) BUT and there's always a BUT he KNOWS he can't do that this season. So he stocked up on big nasties in the trenches because like all wise coaches he's been following the board and has heeded steelb's passionate rant about doing same. This team is built to run it down the opposition's throat and make them like it all the while stifling whatever they try to do as an offense.


Which is probably why Newton is still "penciled in" as the starting RG. I had no issues with his run blocking. Not saying he was elite, or even played at the Caveman level, but he was effective & has good size.

But in the words of a the wise Tyson, "Everybody has a plan until hey get punched in the mouf."

Kubiak always wanted a balanced attack, but when push came to shove, he bailed on the running game pretty easily. It wasn't until Dennison came in that we saw more patience in the run game.

Besides, if we're as bad as "everyone" says we are, we're going to be playing from behind, meaning we're going to be throwing the ball quite a bit. Fitzpatrick doesn't have an issue slinging it & we saw Tj is just as apt to throw caution to the wind. With Andre & DeAndre & a big TE safety blanket & a healthy Arian catching out of the backfield... throwing it may not be a bad idea.

Which I always thought was funny... our "game plan" was always to stop the run & force the opposing team to throw the ball... become one dimensional. Which is fine & works for most teams. But when you're playing New England, Greenbay, or New Orleans... it always reminded me of a story I once heard about a rabbit & a briar patch.

steelbtexan
06-07-2014, 08:08 PM
Your assessment of Mercilus may be a bit premature. This will be Mercilus' second year of starting, assuming he wins the opportunity, and traditionally OLB's make significant improvement in production this second year. He needs to develop a second move for his pass rush but if he can accomplish this he should surprise.

With Reed moving to ILB, this means Mercilus will be playing the SAM. He will be required to set the edge and cover TE's/RB's. This doesn't appear to be his strong suit. In fact I'm excited to see Tarpinian play the SAM. Tarpinian's strong suit is in coverage.

Mercilus will best be used as a situational pass rusher. A front 4 of Clowney/Watt/Matthews/Mercilus should lead Mercilus to a 10 sack season if Mercilus improves as much as you think/I hope he does.

The jury is still out.

thunderkyss
06-07-2014, 08:10 PM
My money is on Tom Brady doesn't give an eff about what anyone thinks, writes, or otherwise.

Funny... I think Tom manages to keep what "everybody" thinks into perspective. He lets enough in to fuel that fire to continue to get better. & he's still getting better (which, I think, is what really makes him great).

I love Peyton & for the longest he got my vote as the greatest QB of our time. The man's a machine. Year in, year out you know what you're going to get from Peyton & very few teams can actually mess up his ability to execute.

But Brady, every year he & Bill are developing new ways to get it done & like last year, you saw (right before your eyes) that offense improve game to game.

thunderkyss
06-07-2014, 08:23 PM
With Reed moving to ILB, this means Mercilus will be playing the SAM. He will be required to set the edge and cover TE's/RB's. This doesn't appear to be his strong suit. In fact I'm excited to see Tarpinian play the SAM. Tarpinian's strong suit is in coverage.

Mercilus will best be used as a situational pass rusher. A front 4 of Clowney/Watt/Matthews/Mercilus should lead Mercilus to a 10 sack season if Mercilus improves as much as you think/I hope he does.

The jury is still out.

Interesting...

I like Tarpinian. The fact that it was New England that picked him up (undrafted) says a lot... the fact that they let him go says more. I will say that he looked like a LB to me & I liked him inside next to Cushing. I don't know that Reed will actually be moved next to Cushing, or that he will start.

I liked Tuggle at SAM, but like Reed, not much of a threat to the QB. Playing in a true 2 gap 3-4 may help him... may help Reed. But neither have elite talent. I don't see putting Mercilus, who has elite talent, on the bench to start Reed, Tuggle, or Tarpinian.

But that's what training camp is for eh? So we'll see.

EllisUnit
06-07-2014, 08:30 PM
Interesting...

I like Tarpinian. The fact that it was New England that picked him up (undrafted) says a lot... the fact that they let him go says more. I will say that he looked like a LB to me & I liked him inside next to Cushing. I don't know that Reed will actually be moved next to Cushing, or that he will start.

I liked Tuggle at SAM, but like Reed, not much of a threat to the QB. Playing in a true 2 gap 3-4 may help him... may help Reed. But neither have elite talent. I don't see putting Mercilus, who has elite talent, on the bench to start Reed, Tuggle, or Tarpinian.

But that's what training camp is for eh? So we'll see.

Yep Mercilus did have 7 sacks last season, and thats when everyone on the team was having trouble getting to the QB.

drs23
06-07-2014, 09:33 PM
Here's the way I see it, based off of last yr (Injuries included.)

Brown - is a green with a chance to be a blue. Due to injury and playing next to an injured W.Smith.

Foster- Should be a light green because he's coming off back surgery and you don't know how long it will be before his back goes out again.

Cushing- Who knows what his level of play will be or if he will get injured again. Light green seems fair.

Watt/AJ- Definitely Blue.
Fitzpatrick= Orange, I agree.
Griffin= Agreed/ Graham will be replaced by Fiedo so this grade should be a purple.

Hopkins- Yellow = Agreed with a chance for great improvement in yr 2.
Martin- Agreed. Luckily he will only be the KR/PR if he even makes the team. I look for Posey/Labhart/Bonner to take Martin's spot on the roster. So this position will be upgraded.

Jones- Orange= Agreed, but Su'a-Filo was drafted to be a major upgrade so I don't think this grade is fair.

Myers/Brooks- Light Green= Agreed, But I look for a big improvement from Brooks as a 2nd yr starter.

Newton-Red= Agreed, But he will get better or be replaced by Ques/Williams/Witzmann. I look for this position to be a lot better than most people think this yr.

Powe- Gray = Agreed, But I feel Nix, if healthy will become the best NT since the Texans inception. Massive upgrade.

Crick- Orange = Agreed, Crick has potential to be a light green, since this is his 1st real chance to get PT.

Reed- Red= Disagree. Reed should have been playing ILB all along. He will be a major upgrade. Great against the run and can cover the deep middle against TE's.

Mercilus- Orange= Agreed, Situational Pass rusher at best. I hope that Tarpinian (SP?) or Williams can beat Mercilus out. This position needs upgrading.

Joseph- Light green= Disagree, Joseph's play has really suffered due to injury the last couple of yrs. He has been playing at an orange level. But if healthy he could become a blue/green level player.

Jackson- Yellow = Agreed.
Harris- Orange= Agreed, he needs to improve majorly or be replaced.
Swearinger- Orange= Agreed, But if he can keep his head on his shoulders I look for Swearinger to be one of the most improved players on the roster.

Clemons- Agreed

Thoughts?

I think you nailed it pretty good steelb.

A couple of thoughts.

Newton-Red= Agreed, But he will get better or be replaced by Ques/Williams/Witzmann. I look for this position to be a lot better than most people think this yr.

I know everyone and all their kinfolk have been down on #75 since jumpstreet and he was more than culpable considering the results. I'm on record as saying, given the chance, when healthy, he will produce. If one would just stop and look at the entire picture I don't think his future is as grim as most think and would have everyone believe. I base my stance on the what happened in his real world NFL experience of three years. He was a platooning his rookie season. After he won/was awarded the starting position he blew out his patellar tendon. A serious injury. Doc said at the time if he wasn't afforded the opportunity heal fully he could never be expected to return to pre-injury form. We're all aware of the "company drs." willingness to give a player a fit for duty when chances are more than pretty good an IME from a private doctor of his choosing would result in an opinion that Newton was not ready to take the field yet. He just wasn't ready and that was evident in his play. #75 is now fully healed and over the off season lost fat & gained muscle . I don't recall where I heard it (mothership) or read it (again) so I don't have a link but it was reported that he was moving much better, appeared nimble and was quicker on his feet. I hope he plays as well as I think he can. I think he's made the effort to do so. If not then:

he will be replaced by Ques/Williams/Witzmann.

I didn't include Williams because I don't think he'll ever see an NFL field. I really hope I'm wrong but with what Doc says along with the research I've done his future in the league just doesn't appear promising. AT ALL.

Mercilus- Orange= Agreed, Situational Pass rusher at best. I hope that Tarpinian (SP?) or Williams can beat Mercilus out. This position needs upgrading.

I truly hope Mercilus can pony up and show us he was/is worthy of his draft status. With more pressure from upfront other than JJ it wouldn't surprise me. Wade seemed like a fair judge of talent. I think this is the year he'll show us that he is an NFL talent and not a "one year wonder" in school. Tarpinian I agree is another one to watch. He stood out several times last season with good, heads up play. I expect to see quite a bit of him this season. O'Brien has highlighted his name as doing well during OTAs before including everyone else and the grounds keepers. Williams appears to be a good find as well from what I've heard and read.

Bottom line is I think this defense can and will play in the league's top ten when they get the scheme down and learn each other during the heat of battle. In the end none of us have anything more to do with it than discuss it amongst ourselves(it's what we do:)). Bill O'Brien is going to field the best team of players that he possibly can. It's not only in his and the team's best interest, but his job as well.

I'm reservedly optimistic about our Texans this upcoming season but the Kool-Aid and accompanying glasses will remain on the top shelf of the closet.

:texflag:

dc_txtech
06-07-2014, 11:54 PM
Yep Mercilus did have 7 sacks last season, and thats when everyone on the team was having trouble getting to the QB.

He also had more sacks in his rookie season than Mario or Watt, while playing part time.

I still have high expectations for Mercilus.

Lambert
06-08-2014, 04:28 AM
Your assessment of Mercilus may be a bit premature. This will be Mercilus' second year of starting, assuming he wins the opportunity, and traditionally OLB's make significant improvement in production this second year. He needs to develop a second move for his pass rush but if he can accomplish this he should surprise.

This will be Mercilus' third year. Second year of starting, but third year.

Lambert
06-08-2014, 04:33 AM
He also had more sacks in his rookie season than Mario or Watt, while playing part time.

I still have high expectations for Mercilus.

Reed and Mercilus are tied for the most sacks in their rookie seasons, although keep in mind that Brooks had 3.5 sacks (tied with Watt for most in the NFL) in the post season of his rookie year which isn't counted in the regular rookie season sack totals.

steelbtexan
06-08-2014, 11:18 AM
Yep Mercilus did have 7 sacks last season, and thats when everyone on the team was having trouble getting to the QB.

Mercilus isn't an elite talent. He may be only a slightly above avg pass rusher. He certainly wont fit what RAC wants in his SAM to cover TE's/RB's. So to me this spells out situational pass rusher.

RAC is all about putting players is situations to succeed. Pass rush is what Mercilus does best and there's great value in that role.

steelbtexan
06-08-2014, 11:28 AM
I think you nailed it pretty good steelb.

A couple of thoughts.



I know everyone and all their kinfolk have been down on #75 since jumpstreet and he was more than culpable considering the results. I'm on record as saying, given the chance, when healthy, he will produce. If one would just stop and look at the entire picture I don't think his future is as grim as most think and would have everyone believe. I base my stance on the what happened in his real world NFL experience of three years. He was a platooning his rookie season. After he won/was awarded the starting position he blew out his patellar tendon. A serious injury. Doc said at the time if he wasn't afforded the opportunity heal fully he could never be expected to return to pre-injury form. We're all aware of the "company drs." willingness to give a player a fit for duty when chances are more than pretty good an IME from a private doctor of his choosing would result in an opinion that Newton was not ready to take the field yet. He just wasn't ready and that was evident in his play. #75 is now fully healed and over the off season lost fat & gained muscle . I don't recall where I heard it (mothership) or read it (again) so I don't have a link but it was reported that he was moving much better, appeared nimble and was quicker on his feet. I hope he plays as well as I think he can. I think he's made the effort to do so. If not then:



I didn't include Williams because I don't think he'll ever see an NFL field. I really hope I'm wrong but with what Doc says along with the research I've done his future in the league just doesn't appear promising. AT ALL.



I truly hope Mercilus can pony up and show us he was/is worthy of his draft status. With more pressure from upfront other than JJ it wouldn't surprise me. Wade seemed like a fair judge of talent. I think this is the year he'll show us that he is an NFL talent and not a "one year wonder" in school. Tarpinian I agree is another one to watch. He stood out several times last season with good, heads up play. I expect to see quite a bit of him this season. O'Brien has highlighted his name as doing well during OTAs before including everyone else and the grounds keepers. Williams appears to be a good find as well from what I've heard and read.

Bottom line is I think this defense can and will play in the league's top ten when they get the scheme down and learn each other during the heat of battle. In the end none of us have anything more to do with it than discuss it amongst ourselves(it's what we do:)). Bill O'Brien is going to field the best team of players that he possibly can. It's not only in his and the team's best interest, but his job as well.

I'm reservedly optimistic about our Texans this upcoming season but the Kool-Aid and accompanying glasses will remain on the top shelf of the closet.

:texflag:

Agreed about Newton, I'm actually excited to see how much he has/will improve now that he's healthy. Unfortunately I agree with you on B.Williams.

This yr is a put up or shut up yr for Mercilus. Just because he was a 1st rd pick doesn't mean he's a 1st rd talent. I hope he does well.

We have the same outlook on the Texans prospects this season. Top 10 defense and decent QB play = playoffs. IMHO

mussop
06-08-2014, 06:30 PM
Here's the way I see it, based off of last yr (Injuries included.)

Brown - is a green with a chance to be a blue. Due to injury and playing next to an injured W.Smith.


Foster- Should be a light green because he's coming off back surgery and you don't know how long it will be before his back goes out again.

Cushing- Who knows what his level of play will be or if he will get injured again. Light green seems fair.

Watt/AJ- Definitely Blue.
Fitzpatrick= Orange, I agree.
Griffin= Agreed/ Graham will be replaced by Fiedo so this grade should be a purple.

Hopkins- Yellow = Agreed with a chance for great improvement in yr 2.
Martin- Agreed. Luckily he will only be the KR/PR if he even makes the team. I look for Posey/Labhart/Bonner to take Martin's spot on the roster. So this position will be upgraded.

Jones- Orange= Agreed, but Su'a-Filo was drafted to be a major upgrade so I don't think this grade is fair.

Myers/Brooks- Light Green= Agreed, But I look for a big improvement from Brooks as a 2nd yr starter.

Newton-Red= Agreed, But he will get better or be replaced by Ques/Williams/Witzmann. I look for this position to be a lot better than most people think this yr.

Powe- Gray = Agreed, But I feel Nix, if healthy will become the best NT since the Texans inception. Massive upgrade.

I'm not sold on Nix at this point. He didn't look very good last year. The year before he looked great. Which one will we be getting? Hopefully he just wasn't a 100% last year and will return to the previous years form. I see why he fell to the third round. Still great value there but he's no sure thing. I'm not ready to proclaim him better than Payne at this point. Fingers crossed though....

Crick- Orange = Agreed, Crick has potential to be a light green, since this is his 1st real chance to get PT.

I just don't see Crick fitting in in this defense. This is from his biggest supporter in his draft. Hope I'm wrong. I see Peagan and Mathews getting the lions share of snaps opposite of Watt.

Reed- Red= Disagree. Reed should have been playing ILB all along. He will be a major upgrade. Great against the run and can cover the deep middle against TE's.

Mercilus- Orange= Agreed, Situational Pass rusher at best. I hope that Tarpinian (SP?) or Williams can beat Mercilus out. This position needs upgrading.

I don't see Mercilous fitting in here at all except as a backup to Clowney. He has never been asked to cover anyone.



Joseph- Light green= Disagree, Joseph's play has really suffered due to injury the last couple of yrs. He has been playing at an orange level. But if healthy he could become a blue/green level player.

Jackson- Yellow = Agreed.
Harris- Orange= Agreed, he needs to improve majorly or be replaced.
Swearinger- Orange= Agreed, But if he can keep his head on his shoulders I look for Swearinger to be one of the most improved players on the roster.

Clemons- Agreed

Thoughts?

I hope this coaching staff lets the offseason dictate who gets playing time. I see Boyie (sp) ousting Harris for a roster spot. He should of been on the roster last year.

thunderkyss
06-08-2014, 08:20 PM
Mercilus isn't an elite talent. He may be only a slightly above avg pass rusher. He certainly wont fit what RAC wants in his SAM to cover TE's/RB's. So to me this spells out situational pass rusher.

RAC is all about putting players is situations to succeed. Pass rush is what Mercilus does best and there's great value in that role.

I didn't think RAC's 3-4 had a "traditional" "SAM" backer. I thought he used more of a ROLB & a LOLB, where they're responsibilities are pretty much the same. Either one can be dropped into coverage at any time, lending to the unpredictability of the Defensive front.

IOTW, both OLBs will have to be fairly adept at rushing the QB, setting the edge, containing the backside, & dropping into coverage. While Mercilus' strong suite may not be dropping into coverage or setting the edge, his position on the team is going to be determined by an overall grade.

I think.

thunderkyss
06-08-2014, 08:23 PM
I hope this coaching staff lets the offseason dictate who gets playing time. I see Boyie (sp) ousting Harris for a roster spot. He should of been on the roster last year.

Kinda... they're still in shorts. But I get what you're saying. I hope this competition continues into the season. If you don't produce on the field, time for someone else to get a shot.

TheMatrix31
06-09-2014, 03:11 AM
We have the best defensive player in football, one of the best linebackers in football, one of the best left tackles in football, one of the best running backs in football, and one of the best wide receivers in football.

Those five guys alone make this roster better than 25th.

Of course, ESPN is a clown show and has been a clown show and anyone who continues to watch their programming or read their analysis is a contributor to the downfall of sports society.

thunderkyss
06-09-2014, 04:06 AM
Of course, ESPN is a clown show and has been a clown show and anyone who continues to watch their programming or read their analysis is a contributor to the downfall of sports society.

Funny you should mention that, because just five weeks ago... heck, as recently as three weeks ago... as a matter of fact, you can find a thread that is active today where someone is talking about the many holes we have on our team & why this "turnaround" is going to take more two years minimum.

It's been interesting reading all these arguments against ESPN's analysis... gives me hope for the play offs in 2014.

ObsiWan
06-09-2014, 08:22 AM
Funny you should mention that, because just five weeks ago... heck, as recently as three weeks ago... as a matter of fact, you can find a thread that is active today where someone is talking about the many holes we have on our team & why this "turnaround" is going to take more two years minimum.

It's been interesting reading all these arguments against ESPN's analysis... gives me hope for the play offs in 2014.
Until training camp unfolds and we know how the starting lineups are populated and how those lineups execute the new offense and new defense, we don't know where we fit.

Too many open questions still remain....

will we fix the right side of the O-line?
who will step up and play LG?
can Foster flourish in this new offense the way he did under the stretch offense?
Can the guys we think that will start at OLB (or ILB for that matter) be effective in pass coverage?
If A.J. comes back how long will it take for whoever starts at QB to click?
WILL A.J. come back?
Is Graham our #1 TE? If so, will he step his game up this year?
Are we really gonna start Fitzpatrick??

With all those questions - and more - 25th sounds kinda high.

Thorn
06-09-2014, 08:54 AM
Until training camp unfolds and we know how the starting lineups are populated and how those lineups execute the new offense and new defense, we don't know where we fit.

Too many open questions still remain....

will we fix the right side of the O-line?
who will step up and play LG?
can Foster flourish in this new offense the way he did under the stretch offense?
Can the guys we think that will start at OLB (or ILB for that matter) be effective in pass coverage?
If A.J. comes back how long will it take for whoever starts at QB to click?
WILL A.J. come back?
Is Graham our #1 TE? If so, will he step his game up this year?
Are we really gonna start Fitzpatrick??

With all those questions - and more - 25th sounds kinda high.

There are just an absolute ton of questions surrounding this team. I think it's why most of us predicted between 7-9 wins this season. It going to take several folks we aren't counting on to step up and become special this year if we are to be more than just mediocre.

sandman
06-09-2014, 09:11 AM
Until training camp unfolds and we know how the starting lineups are populated and how those lineups execute the new offense and new defense, we don't know where we fit.

Too many open questions still remain....

will we fix the right side of the O-line?
who will step up and play LG?
can Foster flourish in this new offense the way he did under the stretch offense?
Can the guys we think that will start at OLB (or ILB for that matter) be effective in pass coverage?
If A.J. comes back how long will it take for whoever starts at QB to click?
WILL A.J. come back?
Is Graham our #1 TE? If so, will he step his game up this year?
Are we really gonna start Fitzpatrick??

With all those questions - and more - 25th sounds kinda high.

Seems that everyone is trying to come up with their own metrics so they can have a unique take. Using a single year performance to determine if a player is elite or not seems short-sighted. Too high of a reward/punishment scale to have a lot of credibility. Make this same assessment for 2012 and the Texans probably score Top 5 instead of close to Bottom 5. Neither would be completely accurate.

That being said, the Texans have areas they need to address. We as fans see those areas in granular detail because this is our team. Outside of not having a known #1 QB on this team, I don't see the areas of concern being that unique from any other NFL team.

O-line and LB's especially. Seems that these are two default areas that most teams' fans discuss to death in the off season.

Playoffs
06-09-2014, 10:41 AM
...With all those questions - and more - 25th sounds kinda high.

Well, at least we'll be playing in what looks to be historically one of the worst divisions in the last 10 years, or so.


http://img.pandawhale.com/post-19259-so-I-got-that-going-for-me-whi-CKYI.gif

thunderkyss
06-09-2014, 12:18 PM
Should've kept my mouth shut... had a positive thread going & I had to screw it up.

ObsiWan
06-09-2014, 02:01 PM
Should've kept my mouth shut... had a positive thread going & I had to screw it up.

Well if the answers to the questions I posed are positive, then we can still compete for the playoffs.

The optimist in me says the answers will go thusly...

Too many open questions still remain....

will we fix the right side of the O-line?
Yes, Quess fills the RT spot like a champ and Xavier Su'a-Filo steps in an plays RG admirably.
who will step up and play LG?
Ben Jones steps in and plays the level Wade Smith did when he first got here.
can Foster flourish in this new offense the way he did under the stretch offense?
Foster will be used like the Pats used Stevan Ridley. Alfred Blue will be our bruiser, thus saving wear and tear on Foster.
Can the guys we think that will start at OLB (or ILB for that matter) be effective in pass coverage?
Non-problem. RAC will dial up so many blends of blitzes and Watt/Clowney stunts that the LBs won't have to cover for more than 2 - 2-1/2 secs at the most.
If A.J. comes back how long will it take for whoever starts at QB to click?
A.J. will come back for mandatory OTAs at the end of June. By the end preseason Fitzpatrick will realize the quick slant to A.J. (and resulting YAC yds) are his bestest friend ever.
WILL A.J. come back?
See above
Is Graham our #1 TE? If so, will he step his game up this year?
No. The big rookie, Fiedorowicz will take his job. Big (in more ways than one) upgrade for the position.
Are we really gonna start Fitzpatrick??
Yep. But he knows this is his last/best chance to make a positive name for himself. He won't blow it by trying to be too much of a hero. There are too many weapons around him - Foster, Andre, Fiedorowicz, Hopkins, etc. - for him to have to win games by himself; just get them the ball in space and watch the show.

See, I can be positive.
...on the right mix of drugs.
http://www.pic4ever.com/images/bad_boys_20.gif

nero THE zero
06-09-2014, 02:40 PM
Well, at least we'll be playing in what looks to be historically one of the worst divisions in the last 10 years, or so.

That remains to be seen, but I don't think that'll be the case at all.

Call me crazy, but I wouldn't be shocked to see one, if not two wild cards coming from the AFCS. In fact, I expect it--I think the Colts, Texas and Titans will all make the playoffs.

thunderkyss
06-09-2014, 06:58 PM
That remains to be seen, but I don't think that'll be the case at all.

Call me crazy, but I wouldn't be shocked to see one, if not two wild cards coming from the AFCS. In fact, I expect it--I think the Colts, Texas and Titans will all make the playoffs.

I think we've got a good group of coaches in this division & it's going to be one of the toughest divisions in the league very soon. Pagano, Whisenhunt, Bradley, & O'Brien... this could be the start of something good.

Uncle Rico
06-09-2014, 09:46 PM
Interesting. Some folks on this very board tried to convince me that this team was a playoff caliber team when I argued that a rough season ahead was probably in the works. I'd even venture to say that 25th was being generous.

thunderkyss
06-09-2014, 11:16 PM
Interesting. Some folks on this very board tried to convince me that this team was a playoff caliber team when I argued that a rough season ahead was probably in the works. I'd even venture to say that 25th was being generous.

My point exactly... well, 180 degrees out. I think there are more people on this board thinking we're going to win less than 7 games in 2014. & I don't think the ones saying we could get into the play-offs in 2014 are saying we're "play-off caliber" but that we've got a weak schedule.

Getting to the play-offs in 2014 doesn't mean that we're very good imo, just means that we're better than the worst teams in the AFC. If we beat a division winner, Cincinnati, Denver, New England, Indy... then that would say a lot more than getting to the play offs.

EllisUnit
06-10-2014, 08:10 PM
My point exactly... well, 180 degrees out. I think there are more people on this board thinking we're going to win less than 7 games in 2014. & I don't think the ones saying we could get into the play-offs in 2014 are saying we're "play-off caliber" but that we've got a weak schedule.

Getting to the play-offs in 2014 doesn't mean that we're very good imo, just means that we're better than the worst teams in the AFC. If we beat a division winner, Cincinnati, Denver, New England, Indy... then that would say a lot more than getting to the play offs.

yeah but didn't the 7-9 seahawks sneak into the play offs and actually win a game there. Anything is possible and i think we have a more talented team now than they had at the time.