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View Full Version : Can Clowney and Watt AS OUTSIDE LINEBACKERS Work???


Lord Bills
05-12-2014, 08:57 PM
If clowney is good enough for the outside, surely Watt is athletic enough to do it as well.

How feasible would that be?

Ryan
05-12-2014, 09:02 PM
Simple answer: no.

WolverineFan
05-12-2014, 09:22 PM
I think it's plausible that Watt could play outside, but I have no idea why you would take a guy who dominates inside and move him out. Football is played from the inside out.

Stemp
05-12-2014, 09:36 PM
No reason to move JJ. He's dominant coming from the middle even with a double team. Put Clowney right next to him and they won't be stopped.

Big Lou
05-12-2014, 09:41 PM
Watt is a bad Mo Fo, but I really don't want a 290 lb guy covering modern TE's.

TEXANRED
05-12-2014, 09:50 PM
If clowney is good enough for the outside, surely Watt is athletic enough to do it as well.

How feasible would that be?

Not to many 6'5" 295lb OLB's in the league.

Carr Bombed
05-12-2014, 09:53 PM
Why would anybody want to stand Watt up?

badboy
05-12-2014, 09:59 PM
Not to many 6'5" 295lb OLB's in the league.but it has been done. Nothing wrong with discussing scenarios.

"What is that thing called again? Forward pass? Never seen that before, probably never work."

IDEXAN
05-12-2014, 10:16 PM
Watt just isn't the athlete that Clowney is, who should have little problem in playing standing up at OLB though he's gonna be in a 3-point stance much of the time.

Carr Bombed
05-12-2014, 10:17 PM
but it has been done. Nothing wrong with discussing scenarios.

"What is that thing called again? Forward pass? Never seen that before, probably never work."

You don't move a player who's arguably the best player at his position to another position. That has nothing to do with "attempting a forward pass".

For argument sake, let's say Crennel loses his mind and even attempts this.. That would leave a gaping hole at the spot Watt just vacated.

JCTexan
05-12-2014, 10:24 PM
You don't move a player who's arguably the best player at his position to another position. That has nothing to do with "attempting a forward pass".

For argument sake, let's say Crennel loses his mind and even attempts this.. That would leave a gaping hole at the spot Watt just vacated.

In the same stance: I don't believe you draft a player #1 overall and make him change positions either. I think this team is best suited going with a 4-3 defense.

mussop
05-12-2014, 10:24 PM
Why would anybody want to stand Watt up?
Well heres the deal, He's the best there is, plain and simple I mean he wakes up in the morning and pisses excellence and nobody can hang with his stuff.


No but really....Devils advocate...... Because he's such an athletic play making machine he's going produce no matter where you put him. When teams start going to those bubble and quick screens he would have more of a chance to make a play. Thats all I got right now. :ant:

DocBar
05-12-2014, 10:27 PM
In the same stance: I don't believe you draft a player #1 overall and make him change positions either. I think this team is best suited going with a 4-3 defense.Agreed.

Carr Bombed
05-12-2014, 10:56 PM
In the same stance: I don't believe you draft a player #1 overall and make him change positions either. I think this team is best suited going with a 4-3 defense.

While I agree with you that we are better suited going with a 4-3 front.. if you were going to move a player.. Clowney is the player that stands a much better chance at standing up. J.J. Watt.. no so much. J.J. Watt was born to have his hand in the dirt.

Carr Bombed
05-12-2014, 10:59 PM
Well heres the deal, He's the best there is, plain and simple I mean he wakes up in the morning and pisses excellence and nobody can hang with his stuff.


No but really....Devils advocate...... Because he's such an athletic play making machine he's going produce no matter where you put him. When teams start going to those bubble and quick screens he would have more of a chance to make a play. Thats all I got right now. :ant:

He's got a much better chance to make a play keeping him where he's at. All of those tackles for a loss and batted down balls at the line would come less often in you moved him. We don't need to reinvent the wheel here.

Lord Bills
05-12-2014, 10:59 PM
Not to many 6'5" 295lb OLB's in the league.

see the problem with that is that the nfl has changed drastically due to the greatness of modern athletes.

the physical profile of positions have changed.

We have safeties now that are as big as linebackers from 20-30 years ago. We have LBs now that are as big as dlinemen were 20-30 years from now.

Who would have thought Usain Bolt at 6'5 would become the greatest sprinter of all time? Before bolt most great sprinters were cornerback height around 5-10-5'11.


athletic evolution is happening right before our eyes.


Why would anybody want to stand Watt up?

well for one, his double team help would be running backs and tight ends as oppose to offensive guards and tackles which would make it easier for him to beat the double team.

football is so opposed to change. it has such a club status quo mentality.

badboy
05-12-2014, 11:01 PM
You don't move a player who's arguably the best player at his position to another position. That has nothing to do with "attempting a forward pass".

For argument sake, let's say Crennel loses his mind and even attempts this.. That would leave a gaping hole at the spot Watt just vacated.I agree but it can be talked about.

Lord Bills
05-12-2014, 11:02 PM
if jason taylor can play outside linebacker so can jj watt.

The Pencil Neck
05-12-2014, 11:04 PM
If clowney is good enough for the outside, surely Watt is athletic enough to do it as well.

How feasible would that be?

Romeo Crennel's version of the 3-4 is in its own way just as idiosyncratic as Wade Phillips' BUT a little truer to the classic 3-4.

What Crennel wants to do is have 1 guy who can play as a classic 4-3 DE on one side who can penetrate and crash OR play a two gap, a classic 0-tech space-eater two gapper over the center, and then a more classic two gapping 5-tech DE. Watt is perfect for the 4-3DE spot, Nix for the 0-tech. The question mark is if Crick or Pagan can handle that 5-tech. I think they can although they might need to platoon that spot.

Then if I understand it right, RAC wants one rush OLB which would be Clowney and then one more standard SAM OLB which normally would be Reed but is looking uncomfortably like it might be Mercilus. I'm not sure Mercilus can handle that position.

But that's just the base package. When we go to nickel and dime, things will get creative and having a guy like Watt who can play up and down the line, Clowney and Mercilus who can play standing up (hopefully) or with their hands down, gives RAC amazing flexibility.

As part of that creativity, RAC might stand JJ up occasionally but I don't expect it to be a constant because he is so well suited for what RAC wants to do.

I can't wait to see how it works out.

Carr Bombed
05-12-2014, 11:10 PM
see the problem with that is that the nfl has changed drastically due to the greatness of modern athletes.

the physical profile of positions have changed.

We have safeties now that are as big as linebackers from 20-30 years ago. We have LBs now that are as big as dlinemen were 20-30 years from now.

Who would have thought Usain Bolt at 6'5 would become the greatest sprinter of all time? Before bolt most great sprinters were cornerback height around 5-10-5'11.


athletic evolution is happening right before our eyes.




well for one, his double team help would be running backs and tight ends as oppose to offensive guards and tackles which would make it easier for him to beat the double team.

football is so opposed to change. it has such a club status quo mentality.

Well then who would be the one forcing the double teams of the offensive guards and tackles.. and then being the one still creating huge plays despite being doubled teamed by offensive guards and tackles thus freeing up everyone else to make plays?

If you move J.J. Watt, you create another huge hole on defense. So it doesn't have anything to do with evolution or being opposed to change. Watt's position is very important and his play on the front line and the attention he draws down there is key for our defense and the players that play behind him. You stick him right next to Nix and enjoy the havoc they create.

Big Lou
05-12-2014, 11:18 PM
if jason taylor can play outside linebacker so can jj watt.

Jason Taylor is damn near lanky compared to Watt.

kiwitexansfan
05-12-2014, 11:20 PM
How about a 1-5-5 where you put Nix with his hand on the ground, then you get Watt, Clowney, Cushing, Mercilus and Reed milling around, with no indication of who is coming and who is staying.

thunderkyss
05-13-2014, 12:04 AM
If you move J.J. Watt, you create another huge hole on defense.

That's the way I see it. Two reason Jj Watt "won't work" at OLB.


Who's going to do what he do inside?
As athletically freaky as Watt is, he's not dropping into coverage
(which in & of itself is not a big deal if he's being used to rush the QB or play downhill. But if you've got Clowney basically doing the same thing on the other side... you're exposing yourself in other ways).


Could they have stuck Mario at DE & put Jj Watt at rush OLB? Sure, why not.

Norg
05-13-2014, 02:12 AM
my question is can CLown play some DE in a 3-4 base set ..????

and can he play DT in a 4-3 Base set

and when we go into our 5-2 Base sets how would that look

Mercilus, JJwatt , NIX,Clown, Reed ..and have all those 5 guys rush

DocBar
05-13-2014, 04:11 AM
my question is can CLown play some DE in a 3-4 base set ..????

and can he play DT in a 4-3 Base set

and when we go into our 5-2 Base sets how would that look

Mercilus, JJwatt , NIX,Clown, Reed ..and have all those 5 guys rush You do realize that you're calling a very large, very quick man, who plays a very violent sport, by the exact nickname he said he won't be called, don't you? He'll also soon be wealthy enough to charter a jet to whatever part of the world you're in and do pretty much whatever he wants to with you...just sayinj'... :kitten: :sarcasm: in case it was missed.

DocBar
05-13-2014, 04:12 AM
That's the way I see it. Two reason Jj Watt "won't work" at OLB.


Who's going to do what he do inside?
As athletically freaky as Watt is, he's not dropping into coverage
(which in & of itself is not a big deal if he's being used to rush the QB or play downhill. But if you've got Clowney basically doing the same thing on the other side... you're exposing yourself in other ways).


Could they have stuck Mario at DE & put Jj Watt at rush OLB? Sure, why not.Dude...you're avatar is creeping me out. What's with the creepy clown avatars lately? Someone else has an even creepier one.

thunderkyss
05-13-2014, 04:34 AM
Dude...you're avatar is creeping me out. What's with the creepy clown avatars lately? Someone else has an even creepier one.

infantrycak started it (I think) posting scary pictures of clowns in a Clowney thread.

Someone else said something about Savage Seven (the number he wore at Pitt) didn't sound right, so I googled it & came up with a few pictures. one of them happened to be the clown in my avatar.

So basically it represents two players from this draft. Tom Savage & JaDeveon Clowney.

DocBar
05-13-2014, 04:43 AM
infantrycak started it (I think) posting scary pictures of clowns in a Clowney thread.

Someone else said something about Savage Seven (the number he wore at Pitt) didn't sound right, so I googled it & came up with a few pictures. one of them happened to be the clown in my avatar.

So basically it represents two players from this draft. Tom Savage & JaDeveon Clowney. Savage de la Clowney!!

http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/317/842/c7d.jpg Weirdos. LOL :kitten:

Stay creepy, my friend...

b0ng
05-13-2014, 08:14 AM
Watt is way too good on the interior and it's really difficult to find players like that. I'm not saying rush OLBs are a dime a dozen but there are a lot more guys in the league similar to Clowney's measurables who are pretty good than there are JJ Watt's.

But this will be Watt's first year without Phillips, so he may be asked to do things differently and his fit into the defensive system might not look the same as it has the last 3 years.

Gotta Know
05-13-2014, 09:05 AM
Watt just isn't the athlete that Clowney is, who should have little problem in playing standing up at OLB though he's gonna be in a 3-point stance much of the time.

40 time: Clowney by .31 seconds
Bench: Watt by 13 reps
Vertical: Clowney by 0.5 inches
Broad Jump: Clowney by 4 inches
Three Cone: Watt by 0.39 seconds
Twenty Yard Shuttle: Watt by 0.21 seconds

Watt at 290 lbs
Clowney at 266 lbs


Is Clowney really that much better an athlete?

BullNation4Life
05-13-2014, 09:30 AM
you could absolutely stand Watt up and he would absolutely dominate. Doesn't have to be for the whole game, put some packages in there where he and Clowney are standing up on the outsides and watch OC's and QB's crap their pants. Who do you block?

Watt's size have nothing to do with not putting him out there. He doesn't play like a normal 295, he plays like he is 275.

I don't think this is gonna be they same ol RC defense from the Pats days. I think RC has some seriously freakish talent on his DL and he gonna get creative and do thing folks hadn't seen before, because of the personnel he has...


should be fun to watch...

BullNation4Life
05-13-2014, 09:31 AM
40 time: Clowney by .31 seconds
Bench: Watt by 13 reps
Vertical: Clowney by 0.5 inches
Broad Jump: Clowney by 4 inches
Three Cone: Watt by 0.39 seconds
Twenty Yard Shuttle: Watt by 0.21 seconds

Watt at 290 lbs
Clowney at 266 lbs


Is Clowney really that much better an athlete?

No Watt is just a hard worker...He is high motor guy....he is just a real hard worker....:kitten:

LikeMike
05-13-2014, 09:47 AM
Like most people in this thread already said: why get JJ out of the position he absolutely excells at when we`d have nobody to take his spot.

With that being said, I am also not really in the camp of "let`s put Clowney and Watt on the same side". Clowneys best move by far is his inside move. If you put him next to Watt, you`ll probably have 3 blockers plus a HB on their side. IŽd much rather have the other team have to deal with a killer on each side of the line. If they double them both, Mercilus or Reed should still have a very good shot. And let`s not forget blocking Nix with only 1 linemen spells trouble as well.

Mr teX
05-13-2014, 09:54 AM
:vincepalm:

HOU-TEX
05-13-2014, 10:01 AM
Why fix what isn't broken? Watt has been the only constant producer on defense the past few years and we want to change it? Let's fix the remainder of the defense before altering the best DE/DT in the league, no?

Mr teX
05-13-2014, 10:01 AM
40 time: Clowney by .31 seconds
Bench: Watt by 13 reps
Vertical: Clowney by 0.5 inches
Broad Jump: Clowney by 4 inches
Three Cone: Watt by 0.39 seconds
Twenty Yard Shuttle: Watt by 0.21 seconds

Watt at 290 lbs
Clowney at 266 lbs


Is Clowney really that much better an athlete?

For ****s and giggles you could put Mario's combine numbers up & they compare favorably with both these guys as well. But we all saw what Mario looked like dropping in coverage...lumbering and largely uncomfortable.

Watt for sure would look more comfortable than Mario but not enough to be as effective as he'd need to be at the position.

It ain't just about the numbers. You gotta be fluid and agile as hell out there. & regardless of what the numbers say, Clowney has that in spades over the other 2 and looks way more comfortable doing it if we were to ask him to do it

steelbtexan
05-13-2014, 11:10 AM
What is a DE with Gronk type TE Skills. Clowney is a DE with WR Skills.

I cant wait to see this defense the only question marks are Crick/Pagan/Matthews at RDE, ILB hopefully Bullough can help be the answer there, if not Tarpanian and nickel CB hopefully one of Harris/Bouye/Hal will be an upgrade over McCain.

The only hole on offense are QB (Major) and RT which has 3 viable candidates.

I am starting to hope for the Mallett trade. This team with the schedule it has can make the playoffs with avg QB play. Trading for Mallett would give Savage plenty of time to develop and you would be able to find out if Mallett is the franchise QB that BOB is looking for in the meantime. It's a win-win. IMHO

PHILLYTEXANFAN
05-13-2014, 11:15 AM
Jason Taylor is damn near lanky compared to Watt.

If I recall correctly Taylor played around 250-260 ish

kingtexan
05-13-2014, 12:00 PM
No reason to move JJ. He's dominant coming from the middle even with a double team. Put Clowney right next to him and they won't be stopped.

I was thinking you would always want them on opposite sides, so the offense couldn't stack the line on that one side to try and slow then down. Separate them, then who is the OL going to double-team? Also has a good chance of freeing up the middle for Cushing or Reed to have banner years sacking the QB.

Mr teX
05-13-2014, 12:47 PM
What is a DE with Gronk type TE Skills. Clowney is a DE with WR Skills.

I cant wait to see this defense the only question marks are Crick/Pagan/Matthews at RDE, ILB hopefully Bullough can help be the answer there, if not Tarpanian and nickel CB hopefully one of Harris/Bouye/Hal will be an upgrade over McCain.

The only hole on offense are QB (Major) and RT which has 3 viable candidates.

I am starting to hope for the Mallett trade. This team with the schedule it has can make the playoffs with avg QB play. Trading for Mallett would give Savage plenty of time to develop and you would be able to find out if Mallett is the franchise QB that BOB is looking for in the meantime. It's a win-win. IMHO

He'll have his growing pains, no escaping that but I think savage can be ready to compete in 2015. The kid's never really had consistent good qb coaching..in the same system no less & I think him just being able to settle in to some consistent coaching within the same system is gonna do more for him than anything else.

That's the only reason i'd be opposed to bringing Mallet in via a trade. Now if he wants to come here next year as a free agent to compete with Savage....:shrug:

mussop
05-13-2014, 02:02 PM
I was thinking you would always want them on opposite sides, so the offense couldn't stack the line on that one side to try and slow then down. Separate them, then who is the OL going to double-team? Also has a good chance of freeing up the middle for Cushing or Reed to have banner years sacking the QB.

I'm thinking you move them around a lot to keep offenses guessing. That just gives opposing QB's one more thing to worry about pre snap.

Seegara
05-13-2014, 03:38 PM
If clowney is good enough for the outside, surely Watt is athletic enough to do it as well.

How feasible would that be?
Strong outside linebacker has responsibilities in coverage. Leave JJ in the trenches full time.

Norg
05-13-2014, 08:20 PM
if there both but on one side that might mean we would know which side they would run it two and thus know what the O is going 2 do ... or they just be stubbon and still run it on Watt clown side

Gotta Know
05-13-2014, 08:41 PM
For ****s and giggles you could put Mario's combine numbers up & they compare favorably with both these guys as well. But we all saw what Mario looked like dropping in coverage...lumbering and largely uncomfortable.

Watt for sure would look more comfortable than Mario but not enough to be as effective as he'd need to be at the position.

It ain't just about the numbers. You gotta be fluid and agile as hell out there. & regardless of what the numbers say, Clowney has that in spades over the other 2 and looks way more comfortable doing it if we were to ask him to do it


OK I get it, as long as a player looks good, it doesn't matter that in the "change of direction drills", you know, the ones that kind of relate to coverage skills, Clowney was much slower than Watt.

Anyone remember Wade Phillips just after they drafted Watt saying they had worked him in some linebacker drills and he "didn't look half bad"?

Of course Watt isn't as fast as Clowney so maybe he wouldn't be as effective but isn't it presumptuous to claim one is obviously superior based on "LOOKS".

Lord Bills
05-15-2014, 12:14 PM
outside linebacker is basically a defensive end which is basically what jj would be if we were a 4-3.

you can use your inside linebackers to play coverage.

BigBull17
05-15-2014, 12:23 PM
How about a 1-5-5 where you put Nix with his hand on the ground, then you get Watt, Clowney, Cushing, Mercilus and Reed milling around, with no indication of who is coming and who is staying.

I LOVE those kinds of defenses.

PHILLYTEXANFAN
05-15-2014, 01:11 PM
outside linebacker is basically a defensive end which is basically what jj would be if we were a 4-3.

you can use your inside linebackers to play coverage.

JJ would play DT IMO .