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Corrosion
05-09-2014, 11:44 PM
No QB in the first 4 picks , biggest hole on the roster still to be filled .... and I'm thrilled with the first 4 picks.

Clowney - Best player in the draft.

Su'a-Filo - Best interior OL in the draft.

Fiedorowicz - Wasn't thrilled with the pick but do like the player a lot. Probably would have gone RT here (Morgan Moses was the next pick off the board).

Nix - Finally , this team hasn't had a big nasty NT since Seth Payne. First round talent in the middle of the 3rd round.

Purely on talent , this might be the best draft in the history of the franchise .... even if they didn't fill the biggest need.


Watt , Nix , Clowney , Mercilus & Cushing ..... QB's have to be concerned.

Vance87
05-09-2014, 11:47 PM
Am I the only one not completely giving up on Keenum at this point? I mean it's an outside shot I know.

TheMatrix31
05-09-2014, 11:48 PM
Hopefully they all pan out. I'll settle for two.

TEXANRED
05-09-2014, 11:48 PM
No QB in the first 4 picks , biggest hole on the roster still to be filled .... and I'm thrilled with the first 4 picks.

Clowney - Best player in the draft.

Su'a-Filo - Best interior OL in the draft.

Fiedorowicz - Wasn't thrilled with the pick but do like the player a lot. Probably would have gone RT here (Morgan Moses was the next pick off the board).

Nix - Finally , this team hasn't had a big nasty NT since Seth Payne. First round talent in the middle of the 3rd round.

Purely on talent , this might be the best draft in the history of the franchise .... even if they didn't fill the biggest need.


Watt , Nix , Clowney , Mercilus & Cushing ..... QB's have to be concerned.

I have to admit I was livid when N.E. picked Garoppolo and we countered with a TE. Then we drafted Nix and all was well.

Our QB is in next years draft. Looking like Fitz is our guy for 2014.

gtexan02
05-09-2014, 11:48 PM
The only player on either side of the ball that impacts every single play while his unit is on the field. You can have the greatest supporting cast in the NFL and still be irrelevant without a competent signal caller.

I love the picks we've made. If we had anyone other than Yates, Keenum, and Fitzpatrick right now I'd be thinking a deep run. Even Schaub.

But as it is, we ditched our safety net pre-draft with the obvious intention of filling that hole and so far we've missed on the only players with legitimate starting potential. That means Fitzpatrick or Keenum are likely our starter for 2014 and while this may bode well for 2015 or 2016 it means this year is basically a wash. That's depressing. I'm the least bit upset, even though I understand the plan

rmartin65
05-09-2014, 11:48 PM
Me too, C.

This draft has real potential to be a franchise-changer. 4 day 1 starters, book it.

htownfan32
05-09-2014, 11:49 PM
Am I the only one not completely giving up on Keenum at this point? I mean it's an outside shot I know.

Nah, I think there is still a fringe movement for Keenum on the board.

Hey, if he can win for us, good for him. I don't think he's the guy though.

BullNation4Life
05-09-2014, 11:50 PM
No QB in the first 4 picks , biggest hole on the roster still to be filled .... and I'm thrilled with the first 4 picks.

Clowney - Best player in the draft.

Su'a-Filo - Best interior OL in the draft.

Fiedorowicz - Wasn't thrilled with the pick but do like the player a lot. Probably would have gone RT here (Morgan Moses was the next pick off the board).

Nix - Finally , this team hasn't had a big nasty NT since Seth Payne. First round talent in the middle of the 3rd round.

Purely on talent , this might be the best draft in the history of the franchise .... even if they didn't fill the biggest need.


Watt , Nix , Clowney , Mercilus & Cushing ..... QB's have to be concerned.

The Texans may already have their RT in Quessenberry or Williams. If healthy, one of these guys starts over Newton

WolverineFan
05-09-2014, 11:50 PM
As soon as Minnesota jumped in front of us for Bridgewater I gave up on QB. Love all 4 picks so far. 4 week one starters IMO and they all play on the LOS.

TEXANRED
05-09-2014, 11:51 PM
Am I the only one not completely giving up on Keenum at this point? I mean it's an outside shot I know.

You are not the only one but you are in the minority. Unless Keenum suddenly stopped panicking at the first sign of a blitz, and or, stopped running backwards 20 yards for a sack ala David Carr, Keenum is not the guy. There are reasons he went undrafted.

htownfan32
05-09-2014, 11:51 PM
As soon as Minnesota jumped in front of us for Bridgewater I gave up on QB. Love all 4 picks so far. 4 week one starters IMO and they all play on the LOS.

Yep, same. Ignoring that glaring hole at QB, this draft just straight up redeemed itself for me. Love the Sua Filo, Fiedorowicz and Nix picks.

gtexan02
05-09-2014, 11:52 PM
The true philosophy of the Texans has always been patience, strength in the trenches, and building slowly through the draft.
Because of that, we've always been "a year away"

Everyone who says our QB will be there in 2015 is the perfect Texans fan. "We are built for the long haul and will be contenders in just a few years."

I can see the excuses for passing all the QBs in next year's draft as well. "You don't force a need pick. You take BPA. We need more defensive lineman."

Sometimes you ignore needs and take the best player at the position. When your need is the most important player on the team, it's hard to see how that strategy is going to lead to success in the immediate future

htownfan32
05-09-2014, 11:53 PM
The true philosophy of the Texans has always been patience, strength in the trenches, and building slowly through the draft.
Because of that, we've always been "a year away"

Everyone who says our QB will be there in 2015 is the perfect Texans fan. "We are built for the long haul and will be contenders in just a few years."

I can see the excuses for passing all the QBs in next year's draft as well. "You don't force a need pick. You take BPA. We need more defensive lineman."

I'm like 99% sure this will happen, but I'll give Bill O'Brien some time to find his QB. He deserves the benefit of the doubt after all the leash Kubiak got.

powda
05-09-2014, 11:55 PM
Is Mccarron or savage on the board? I concur. Great talent taken at value positions. We got the best talent possible, we upgraded the nasty in our line, we finally got the beef on our dl, we added dramatic talent to our olb core. I'm happy. I have resorvations about Fido but we'll see how he's used. Happy overall.

TEXANRED
05-09-2014, 11:55 PM
The only player on either side of the ball that impacts every single play while his unit is on the field. You can have the greatest supporting cast in the NFL and still be irrelevant without a competent signal caller.

I love the picks we've made. If we had anyone other than Yates, Keenum, and Fitzpatrick right now I'd be thinking a deep run. Even Schaub.

But as it is, we ditched our safety net pre-draft with the obvious intention of filling that hole and so far we've missed on the only players with legitimate starting potential. That means Fitzpatrick or Keenum are likely our starter for 2014 and while this may bode well for 2015 or 2016 it means this year is basically a wash. That's depressing. I'm the least bit upset, even though I understand the plan

Rob Johnson and Trent Dilfer have SB rings cus they had a badass defense. Maybe the Texans are putting together a badass defense.

gtexan02
05-09-2014, 11:57 PM
Rob Johnson and Trent Dilfer have SB rings cus they had a badass defense. Maybe the Texans are putting together a badass defense.

The game has changed too much since then. You cant make that comparison anymore

htownfan32
05-09-2014, 11:57 PM
Rob Johnson and Trent Dilfer have SB rings cus they had a badass defense. Maybe the Texans are putting together a badass defense.

2 QBs in the past 2 decades isn't a great track record.

badboy
05-09-2014, 11:59 PM
Are we giving up on O'Brien being a QB maker or is it the quality of what he has so far to work with?

BullNation4Life
05-09-2014, 11:59 PM
Rod johnson and trent dilfer have sb rings cus they had a badass defense. Maybe the texans are putting together a badass defense.

did you mean Brad Johnson, the TB Qb back with Gruden? I agree and said after the SB this year, if your QB is sub par to good, develop a smothering defense to balance that out...


That's what Seattle did...

powda
05-10-2014, 12:01 AM
The game has changed too much since then. You cant make that comparison anymore

Has it really?

Sincerly,
Russel Wilson

TEXANRED
05-10-2014, 12:03 AM
2 QBs in the past 2 decades isn't a great track record.

True but how many defenses were as good as the Ravens and Bucs? none.

gtexan02
05-10-2014, 12:04 AM
Has it really?

Sincerly,
Russel Wilson

Yes it has...

Russell Wilson is a phenomenal QB. Do you watch football?
If not, have you seen his stats?
3400 yards, 26 TDs only 9 INTs. A 64% completion percentage. 8+ YPA and a 100+ Qb rating.

That is in addition to 500+ rushing yards a handfull of rushing TDs

mussop
05-10-2014, 12:05 AM
The game has changed too much since then. You cant make that comparison anymore

Seattle San Francisco and Baltimore??????

eriadoc
05-10-2014, 12:05 AM
Am I the only one not completely giving up on Keenum at this point? I mean it's an outside shot I know.

I'm not either. I think fans let emotions cloud their judgment on him. He played ... what? 9 games? On a dysfunctional team? He showed some good stuff. He showed some deficiencies. He doesn't make any money. So the question is - what does BO'B think of him, and how much of a chance does he give him? Now that there isn't a 1st round QB in there battling for the job, I get the impression that there will be an actual competition, and I am 100% happy with that. Whoever wins the job will have won it and not just played because they were drafted in the first round. Personally, I'm hoping for Aaron Murray, and then I hope the best man wins. If Keenum is as tenacious as I think he is, he'll get another shot. What he does with it ... who knows? But I want whoever ends up the starter to have WON THE POSITION, not be appointed like what Kubiak kept doing.

And as I said last year, if you drafted a QB, you wouldn't give him 9 or 10 games and then make your final declaration. Like it or not, QBs have to grow into the position a little. So we'll see.

powda
05-10-2014, 12:07 AM
Yes it has...

Russell Wilson is a phenomenal QB. Do you watch football?
If not, have you seen his stats?
3400 yards, 26 TDs only 9 INTs. A 64% completion percentage. 8+ YPA and a 100+ Qb rating.

That is in addition to 500+ rushing yards a whole bunch of rushing TDs

Really? So forget what the hawks did to what I consider the best QB all time. Sure thing.

The stats you quote dont really make your point. They look efficient and average.

gtexan02
05-10-2014, 12:07 AM
Seattle San Francisco and Baltimore??????

Kaepernick runs the pistol and averages 500+ rush yards a season
Russell Wilson is an amazing QB. Watch him play and then compare him to Trent Dilfer.
Flacco may be overrated but he's incredible in the playoffs. He doesn't "game manage" when it counts. He's a huge part of that teams success

Corrosion
05-10-2014, 12:07 AM
The true philosophy of the Texans has always been patience, strength in the trenches, and building slowly through the draft.
Because of that, we've always been "a year away"

Everyone who says our QB will be there in 2015 is the perfect Texans fan. "We are built for the long haul and will be contenders in just a few years."

I can see the excuses for passing all the QBs in next year's draft as well. "You don't force a need pick. You take BPA. We need more defensive lineman."

Sometimes you ignore needs and take the best player at the position. When your need is the most important player on the team, it's hard to see how that strategy is going to lead to success in the immediate future

Oh I understand your frustration .... But , most of us were not all that thrilled with the QB talent in this draft to begin with. Remember this thread ?? 2014 QB Class Not That Great (http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=103684).

I think taking any of those QB's 1:1 would have been a serious reach. We were picking them apart and still talking about forcing the position .... I'm glad we didn't.

I wouldn't take Bridgewater over Su'a-Filo either. That was a much needed upgrade.

Garappolo was gone when they came up in the 3rd , and I wouldn't have taken a QB there. I would have taken Nix or one of the two remaining OT's I have highly rated in Moses or Richardson - Not a QB.


Moving up to get Nix with the 19th pick in the 3rd round ..... the dude has first round talent , great move , wasn't a QB I'd have taken there.


No QB ?? ..... No Problem.

One of the three on the roster gets run out there. With the front seven they have constructed , that QB doesn't have to win the game , he just has to avoid making mistakes that lose it.
Find another corner with this comp pick @ 4:35 then a DE for depth .... they still have moves to make in FA.


Sh!t this team may surprise the hell out of us and make the playoffs .... with one of the QB's already on the roster. They made significant upgrades to crucial positions.

BigBull
05-10-2014, 12:08 AM
The game has changed too much since then. You cant make that comparison anymore


Seahawks did it this year. They put the clamp on the best offense in the NFL.


Sent from the future...

eriadoc
05-10-2014, 12:10 AM
Tom Brady and Payton Manning have one thing in common - they've both lost multiple Super Bowls to strong defensive teams.

gtexan02
05-10-2014, 12:11 AM
Really? So forget what the hawks did to what I consider the best QB all time. Sure thing.

The stats you quote dont really make your point. They look efficient and average.

You mean his passing yards? Russell Wilson is a top 5 QB in yards per attempt. He would have hit 5400 if he passed as often as Peyton did.

26 TDs puts him at top 10 in the NFL. Again, with about 100-200 less attempts than most of the other 10

500 rushing yards makes him elite mobility wise.

His QB rating puts him 7th.

If you don't believe he's an above average QB I don't believe you've ever seen him play. Honestly, have you watched him?

Carr Bombed
05-10-2014, 12:12 AM
The true philosophy of the Texans has always been patience, strength in the trenches, and building slowly through the draft.
Because of that, we've always been "a year away"

Everyone who says our QB will be there in 2015 is the perfect Texans fan. "We are built for the long haul and will be contenders in just a few years."

I can see the excuses for passing all the QBs in next year's draft as well. "You don't force a need pick. You take BPA. We need more defensive lineman."

Sometimes you ignore needs and take the best player at the position. When your need is the most important player on the team, it's hard to see how that strategy is going to lead to success in the immediate future

Or maybe this current staff just feels like this QB class isn't worth reaching for..after all whoever they hitch their wagon to gets to decide if they get a extension or kicked out the back door. What you described is what the Jags have done over the last decade and it hasn't worked out. There wasn't a "no brainer" franchise QB in this draft (Not much of a drop off through the first 3 or 4 rounds) so I have no problem with them maximizing the value of their picks while being patient regarding the biggest decision that faces this team.

redwhiteANDblue
05-10-2014, 12:13 AM
Honestly I don't think Quarterback was the big issue last year. It was the coaching and the team as a whole. Right now OB and his crew are brining in talent to help the team overall. We are beefing up both sides of the line which weren't so great besides a couple of players (Watt, Duane).

Keenum has talent and I think OB see's it. There is no way, and I mean no way does OB plan on starting his first year as a coach with Fitz as Qb. Keenum did all he could last year to help us compete but the whole team just gave up. He literally had ZERO time to throw. Yes, I know he was terrible at reading the blitz but give him a year under OB, the Qb guru, and he will show signs of improvement.

So far our O line seems solid. Duane, Filo, myers, brooks, Ques. We have the pieces on offense for Keenum to succeed. To me, Keenum reminds me alot of Russell Wilson. He might not have Russell's athleticism but he has the ability to avoid pressure. And with a front seven of Watt, Clowney, cush, Nix...our Defense looks scary.

Seatle South? Lets see what happens..

P.S- I know I sound like a Keenum fanboy but I'm really not. I just want the best for the Texans and whoever can help us win Im down for it. Just saying with I think.

gtexan02
05-10-2014, 12:14 AM
Or maybe this current staff just feels like this QB class isn't worth reaching for..after all whoever they hitch their wagon to gets to decide if they get a extension or kicked out the back door. What you described is what the Jags have done over the last decade and it hasn't worked out. There wasn't a "no brainer" franchise QB in this draft (Not much of a drop off through the first 3 or 4 rounds) so I have no problem with them maximizing the value of their picks while being patient regarding the biggest decision that faces this team.

IF they really didn't see any potential QBs in this draft class they shouldn't have ditched Schaub. They should have let him compete in camp and seen if a new coaching staff could have brought out the best in him. Or they should have positioned themselves better in free agency.

I understand your point about Jax but consider this: Who has more superbowl appearances between Jacksonville and the Texans over the last decade? Exactly. We're both stuck at 0. You either win the superbowl or you don't.

Which team was worst last year? They swept us. Our strategy may be the 'safer' bet but so far we're both the laughing stocks of the NFL. I don't think we can really point to anyone and say "at least we're not..."

badboy
05-10-2014, 12:20 AM
Oh I understand your frustration .... But , most of us were not all that thrilled with the QB talent in this draft to begin with. Remember this thread ?? 2014 QB Class Not That Great (http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=103684).

I think taking any of those QB's 1:1 would have been a serious reach. We were picking them apart and still talking about forcing the position .... I'm glad we didn't.

I wouldn't take Bridgewater over Su'a-Filo either. That was a much needed upgrade.

Garappolo was gone when they came up in the 3rd , and I wouldn't have taken a QB there. I would have taken Nix or one of the two remaining OT's I have highly rated in Moses or Richardson - Not a QB.


Moving up to get Nix with the 19th pick in the 3rd round ..... the dude has first round talent , great move , wasn't a QB I'd have taken there.


No QB ?? ..... No Problem.

One of the three on the roster gets run out there. With the front seven they have constructed , that QB doesn't have to win the game , he just has to avoid making mistakes that lose it.
Find another corner with this comp pick @ 4:35 then a DE for depth .... they still have moves to make in FA.


Sh!t this team may surprise the hell out of us and make the playoffs .... with one of the QB's already on the roster. They made significant upgrades to crucial positions.I think bolded is most important and point I made in my thread about game plan after draft. QB specialist O'Brien should be able to get some miles out of Fitz and Keenum or maybe not as good as advertised.

powda
05-10-2014, 12:23 AM
You mean his passing yards? Russell Wilson is a top 5 QB in yards per attempt. He would have hit 5400 if he passed as often as Peyton did.

26 TDs puts him at top 10 in the NFL. Again, with about 100-200 less attempts than most of the other 10

500 rushing yards makes him elite mobility wise.

His QB rating puts him 7th.

If you don't believe he's an above average QB I don't believe you've ever seen him play. Honestly, have you watched him?

I have watched him. He's good and im not arguing that. "He wouldve hit 5400 yards IF he passed as much as peyton" means he didnt. you can pimp projections however you like but he didnt. He had a strong running game and a stellar defense. The team won with him, not BECAUSE of him. Would I take wilson and do i like him? Sure. But he didnt single handedly win ****. The Seahawks trademark right now is not wilson. It's defense.

281
05-10-2014, 12:26 AM
I'm LOVING this draft so far. Big, strong, nasty players seem to be what we're looking for nowadays, and I like it. If we draft Murray with our 4th rounder, I'll do backflips.

Vinny
05-10-2014, 12:26 AM
Am I the only one not completely giving up on Keenum at this point? I mean it's an outside shot I know.

http://static.nfl.com/static/content/photo/2012/10/31/0ap1000000088419.jpg

jdjd
05-10-2014, 01:00 AM
The game has changed too much since then. You cant make that comparison anymore

Ok, then what about the Baltimore Ravens?

Carr Bombed
05-10-2014, 01:02 AM
IF they really didn't see any potential QBs in this draft class they shouldn't have ditched Schaub. They should have let him compete in camp and seen if a new coaching staff could have brought out the best in him. Or they should have positioned themselves better in free agency.

I understand your point about Jax but consider this: Who has more superbowl appearances between Jacksonville and the Texans over the last decade? Exactly. We're both stuck at 0. You either win the superbowl or you don't.

Which team was worst last year? They swept us. Our strategy may be the 'safer' bet but so far we're both the laughing stocks of the NFL. I don't think we can really point to anyone and say "at least we're not..."

You're making my case for me comparing our level of "success" to Jacksonville's.. They have reached for the "most important position" just like you suggested and have failed. Also regardless is they swept us last season.. That just shows you how incompetent we were last year.. Not a sign of Jacksonville making correct decisions. In all honesty Houston is lucky they didn't go 0-16 last season since it took huge comebacks just to win the two games that we did. Nonetheless Houston historically has gotten the upper hand over the Jags.. even in the expansion/David Carr days.

This is just a very mediocre QB draft (but also happens to be the deepest draft in years) and the lack of Houston's aggressive to grab a QB doesn't mean they don't recognize the need at the position or the importance of that position. They probably feel like I do.. Not much difference between players in this mediocre QB pool that lacks elite talent.

And their view on this class has absolutely nothing to do with Matt Schaub.. Schaub had to go plain and simple.. Especially while a team (who also drafted a QB in the 2nd round) was still willing to trade for him. That decision to part ways had nothing to do with this class.. They just wanted to put a end to that chapter.

Wolf6151
05-10-2014, 01:10 AM
I get the impression that O'Brien is trying to build a team, O-line and D-line, prior to finding a QB to lead that team. I agree with this method of team building. I don't think this is a 1 yr. plan, I think he's on a 2-3 yr. team building plan. And 2-3 yrs. from now I think we'll all be thrilled with the team we have that O'Brien built. I'm fine with the lack of a new QB until O'Brien gets a real chance to evaluate what we already have.

Corrosion
05-10-2014, 01:17 AM
I get the impression that O'Brien is trying to build a team, O-line and D-line, prior to finding a QB to lead that team. I agree with this method of team building. I don't think this is a 1 yr. plan, I think he's on a 2-3 yr. team building plan. And 2-3 yrs. from now I think we'll all be thrilled with the team we have that O'Brien built.

Yeah , building the trenches is the way to go .... That builds a team that can get solid results over the long term.

The more I think about it , the more I go back to that thread in the draft section about the QB's not being all that. First I started picking Bridgewater apart , then Bortles , then Manziel .... then I found myself thinking which turd was the shiniest because "we have to fill the most important position."

Now I find myself thinking "I'm glad they didn't take the shiniest turd."


Where they find that QB .... I dunno. Just hope it doesn't take too long.

Shaft75
05-10-2014, 01:29 AM
Look... The thread title says "NO QB...". We have qb's on the roster, but not the future stud. And that's ok, because the best thing that came from this offseason is that our former QB is on a different team. That is a HUUUUUUGE factor for us. He wasn't going to get us to the Super Bowl, so just cut ties and move on until we find THAT guy.

We've been set back by sticking with him, but if BOB keeps building us from the inside out we have a better chance of being competitive again, very soon. Keep the big nasty guys coming. Our team/city needs that.

New head coach, new mentality, new philosophy, new QB... And some big bad dudes. We're gonna bring the hat for sure and I can't wait!

xtruroyaltyx
05-10-2014, 01:38 AM
I'm still hoping for Murray or Brett smith.

Double Barrel
05-10-2014, 01:46 AM
"QB driven league", because they've made it easier to play QB. Think about the explosion in passing stats the last several years. That has happened for a reason, and it's pass-favorable rule changes that allowed it. Along with the protection bubble by officials, I think today's QBs have it better than ever.

O'Brien will find a QB. I'm not even worried about that part. I like the strategy of building from the trenches up, especially with the style and attitude shift toward big and nasty. Once there is a foundation in place on both sides of the ball, a QB will have an easier time taking advantage of the 'new & improved' NFL we enjoy today.

2-14 took it out of me for awhile, but now I'm starting to really look forward to football season! :texflag:

Fred
05-10-2014, 01:53 AM
No QB in the first 4 picks , biggest hole on the roster still to be filled .... and I'm thrilled with the first 4 picks.

Clowney - Best player in the draft.

Su'a-Filo - Best interior OL in the draft.

Fiedorowicz - Wasn't thrilled with the pick but do like the player a lot. Probably would have gone RT here (Morgan Moses was the next pick off the board).

Nix - Finally , this team hasn't had a big nasty NT since Seth Payne. First round talent in the middle of the 3rd round.

Purely on talent , this might be the best draft in the history of the franchise .... even if they didn't fill the biggest need.


Watt , Nix , Clowney , Mercilus & Cushing ..... QB's have to be concerned.

I would feel better if Bridgewater had gone in the top 20. Maybe BOB hated TB. But I would have traded 2.33 and one of the 6th rounders for 1.31.

1.01 - Clowney, 1.31 - Bridgewater, 3.65 - Moses, 3.83 - Nix.

Q @ OG & Moses @ OT seems as good as Q @ OT & Filo @ OG. So then I've given up a TE with a 4th round grade and a 6th round pick for a QB who would probably be the best QB in Texans history.

Corrosion
05-10-2014, 01:54 AM
I'm still hoping for Murray or Brett smith.

I like Smith .... But think you can get him UDFA.

He spent a lot of time running for his life behind that terribad OL in Wyoming but made a lot of plays. I was surprised he wasn't invited to the combine.

McCarron is the guy I'd like to see slide to them at their next pick which is 4:35 (a comp pick) since they traded away 4:1 & 5:1 for 3:19 and Nix.

Murray would be my next choice behind Katherine Webb .... errr McCarron.

Corrosion
05-10-2014, 02:06 AM
Am I the only one not completely giving up on Keenum at this point? I mean it's an outside shot I know.

I didn't touch this earlier because it's such a difficult question. I like some of the things Keenum can do and think most of his issues are fixable.

I hope he gets a fair shot at winning the job and showing improvement in these area's with no early round rookie .... it should be an open competition.

I posted this in another thread:


Keenum's problems were more pre snap than anything else. He didn't recognize coverage and pressure packages before the snap & make the proper adjustments. Even simple concepts like an overload to one side with a 4 man rush befuddled him (4th quarter in KC).

IF he can solve that puzzle (Huge IF) I think he can be successful in the league. The question is , can he figure that out. That's what sets guys like Manning , Brady & Brees apart from the rest of the league - their ability to recognize pre snap reads and take advantage of them.

thunderkyss
05-10-2014, 02:10 AM
After watching Case Keenum for 9 games I saw nothing that would preclude the Texans from drafting a QB in the first three rounds.

However, when I looked at the QBs available & how they were being graded... I'm not mad right now, because my #1, 2, & 4 QBs are still on the board. #3 & #5 are gone... these are prospects I believe have a good shot at starting day one, regardless where they are drafted. They're smart, they're big, they have experience playing in a pro system, & they've played well. McCarron, Murray, & Mettenberger.

Then there are the guys I think might make good QBs with a little developing..... Savage, Wenning, Fales.

I haven't hit the panic button yet, but if my #1 & #2 guys were off the board, I probably would have.

Vinny
05-10-2014, 02:18 AM
I get the impression that O'Brien is trying to build a team, O-line and D-line, prior to finding a QB to lead that team. I agree with this method of team building. I don't think this is a 1 yr. plan, I think he's on a 2-3 yr. team building plan. And 2-3 yrs. from now I think we'll all be thrilled with the team we have that O'Brien built. I'm fine with the lack of a new QB until O'Brien gets a real chance to evaluate what we already have.

sure beats taking a qb then trekking towards the great OZ with only the cowardly lion and the tin man as your Guards. Don't get me started with that scarecrow at RT.

Say Watt
05-10-2014, 03:22 AM
The true philosophy of the Texans has always been patience, strength in the trenches, and building slowly through the draft.
Because of that, we've always been "a year away"

Everyone who says our QB will be there in 2015 is the perfect Texans fan. "We are built for the long haul and will be contenders in just a few years."

I can see the excuses for passing all the QBs in next year's draft as well. "You don't force a need pick. You take BPA. We need more defensive lineman."

Sometimes you ignore needs and take the best player at the position. When your need is the most important player on the team, it's hard to see how that strategy is going to lead to success in the immediate future


Yep. Funny to me that more people haven't caught onto this. Must be the koolaid...

HuttoKarl
05-10-2014, 03:26 AM
The chance of a 3rd or 4th round QB becoming a top line started doesn't justify overreaching for one on draft day. Our QB situation makes me nervous and after the whole "kubiak: qb guru" stuff I don't really trust a coach to turn a lump of cat doodoo into a candy bar worth eating. I just think we're going into the season with fitz and some career backups and have to wait for the franchise guy. After Teddy went in the first I didn't think we'd go for a qb.

I like the picks we've made so far...we still have a lot of holes though. Maybe the fastest way to turn a team around is by building a nutty defense.

steelbtexan
05-10-2014, 04:33 AM
I like Smith .... But think you can get him UDFA.

He spent a lot of time running for his life behind that terribad OL in Wyoming but made a lot of plays. I was surprised he wasn't invited to the combine.

McCarron is the guy I'd like to see slide to them at their next pick which is 4:35 (a comp pick) since they traded away 4:1 & 5:1 for 3:19 and Nix.

Murray would be my next choice behind Katherine Webb .... errr McCarron.


You know how much I like Smith.

At 4-35 these would be my QB;s of choice. All have as much ability as the big 3 QB's and 1 should be available. Smith has played this draft perfectly. I never thought I would say that. Strange things are happening on Kirby. (Intelligent draft picks are being made.)

1. Savage
2.Smith
3. McCarron
4. Murray
5. Mettenberger

Corrosion
05-10-2014, 04:38 AM
You know how much I like Smith.

At 4-35 these would be my QB;s of choice. All have as much ability as the big 3 QB's.

1. Savage
2. Smith
3. McCarron
4. Murray
5. Mettenberger

For me its:

McCarron
Murray
Smith
Mettenberger


I want no part of Savage , I'd take Boyd before him.

welsh texan
05-10-2014, 06:17 AM
Completely agree with the OP, I would have loved Teddy B at 33, but we don't want to be like the Browns, taking QB after QB with upside and never giving him any tools/weapons to succeed at the NFL level.

Better off having Fitzpatrick/Keenum behind a fixed Oline, and getting someone better next year, than to throw a rookie to the wolves without fixing the reasons why our QB last year couldn't get it done.

Time to start swatting up on next years QB prospects. :koolaid:

infantrycak
05-10-2014, 06:26 AM
I am going to respect the hell out of them if they resist the urge to waste a pick on a QB they don't believe will be the one.

texansfan21
05-10-2014, 07:22 AM
No QB in the first 4 picks , biggest hole on the roster still to be filled .... and I'm thrilled with the first 4 picks.

Purely on talent , this might be the best draft in the history of the franchise .... even if they didn't fill the biggest need.


Watt , Nix , Clowney , Mercilus & Cushing ..... QB's have to be concerned.

Patience amigo :d:

CloakNNNdagger
05-10-2014, 07:33 AM
No QB ?? ..... No Problem.

One of the three on the roster gets run out there. With the front seven they have constructed , that QB doesn't have to win the game , he just has to avoid making mistakes that lose it.
Find another corner with this comp pick @ 4:35 then a DE for depth .... they still have moves to make in FA.


Sh!t this team may surprise the hell out of us and make the playoffs .... with one of the QB's already on the roster. They made significant upgrades to crucial positions.

Having a strong OL will make all the difference in the world. It may even make one of our present quarterbacks look like world beaters when they don't have to run for their life before being planted in the ground.

The trenches on either side have been bamboo walls for way to long.........nice to see that THEY are the priority now.

revan
05-10-2014, 07:36 AM
Seahawks did it this year. They put the clamp on the best offense in the NFL.


Sent from the future...

Seems like the Seahawks are the team to be compared to now.

revan
05-10-2014, 07:37 AM
Completely agree with the OP, I would have loved Teddy B at 33, but we don't want to be like the Browns, taking QB after QB with upside and never giving him any tools/weapons to succeed at the NFL level.

Better off having Fitzpatrick/Keenum behind a fixed Oline, and getting someone better next year, than to throw a rookie to the wolves without fixing the reasons why our QB last year couldn't get it done.

Time to start swatting up on next years QB prospects. :koolaid:

The life a of a Houston sports fan :(

Grams
05-10-2014, 07:42 AM
I am not upset either. I think this has been a fantastic draft so far. There is such a different feel about this year's draft and the players they are drafting. All A-1 prospects. Was a little concerned with Nix still there with the TE pick. But if you have any inkling of the offense OB will run, this was a fantastic pick and we still get Nix.

Without a top-flight QB in this year's draft, we have to fix our other problems with the BPA and we are doing just that. Throw any rookie QB in last years team and it is Carr all over again. I don't think they had any plans of starting a rookie QB this year anyways and with so many remaining, there is still the opportunity to get one they believe will develop into a starter.

I am not going to complain about who we pick or do not pick. With a new coach and coaching staff, they get the benefit of the doubt - at least this year.

:fans::fans::fans:

CloakNNNdagger
05-10-2014, 07:55 AM
I am really stoked about our potential OL this year..........and I wouldn't at all be surprised if OB doesn't find some additional nuggets in the UDFA group. That being said, although I remain hopeful, I still have questions about how much we can depend on Ques who had an uncharacterized fracture of the foot---------a more benign Jones fracture vs. a Yoa Ming type of recurrent chronic degenerative fracture? Or how much we can depend on Brennan Williams after a microfracture surgery of the knee? Believe it or not, I probably have at least as much hope for Derrick Newton, after he's finally had an entire offseason to heal and rehab from his patellar tendon rupture surgery. When it's all said and done, I believe we will be pleasantly surprised with this year's Texans OL transformation.

revan
05-10-2014, 07:57 AM
I am not upset either. I think this has been a fantastic draft so far. There is such a different feel about this year's draft and the players they are drafting. All A-1 prospects. Was a little concerned with Nix still there with the TE pick. But if you have any inkling of the offense OB will run, this was a fantastic pick and we still get Nix.

Without a top-flight QB in this year's draft, we have to fix our other problems with the BPA and we are doing just that. Throw any rookie QB in last years team and it is Carr all over again. I don't think they had any plans of starting a rookie QB this year anyways and with so many remaining, there is still the opportunity to get one they believe will develop into a starter.

I am not going to complain about who we pick or do not pick. With a new coach and coaching staff, they get the benefit of the doubt - at least this year.

:fans::fans::fans:

Sounds like my thoughts back when Kubes first arrived.

Thorn
05-10-2014, 07:59 AM
OK, we haven't gotten our franchise QB yet. But we got four starters in the first three rounds. BoB can't fix every single position in one year.

And for those that said you build a team in the trenches, you are my guys. It's the truth. I totally love this draft so far.

Lucky
05-10-2014, 08:09 AM
Believe it or not, I probably have at least as much hope for Derrick Newton, after he's finally had an entire offseason to heal and rehab from his patellar tendon rupture surgery. When it's all said and done, I believe we will be pleasantly surprised with this year's Texans OL transformation.
I didn't like Newton at RT prior to the injury. I still would like to see him at guard. Between Quessenberry and Williams, hopefully they will get something. And I think one of the 6 remaining picks could be spent on the o-line. But, I would like a sure thing at RT. Maybe someone will become available?

I'm not upset about QB, because I think the Mallett deal gets done. Which would put even more emphasis on RT. Mallett isn't a Schaub type statue. But, he's not Russell Wilson, either. He needs protection.

Thorn
05-10-2014, 08:12 AM
Why is everyone so high on the Mullet QB? Obviously Belicheck doesn't think much of him, or he wouldn't have taken Gaparo...whatever.

I don't even want Mallet. I hope they don't trade anything for him.

LikeMike
05-10-2014, 08:15 AM
Am I the only one not completely giving up on Keenum at this point? I mean it's an outside shot I know.

Right now I hope we don`t get another QB and give Keenum another chance. But a very different chance.

This team has to be a running team now. We have the O-Line for it. I don`t want Keenum to throw the ball more than 20 times a game. But when he throws, the defense should be expecting run.

This team is much more QB friendly than last years team. And we finally should be able to stop the run as well. All we need now is another great ILB (got my eye on Shayne Skov) and another bruising and we are good to go. IŽd go ILB in the 4th and then HB, CB, S after that. Great draft!

WeŽve gotten 3 players with a first round grade so far and a TE that gets compared to Gronk. And we might be able to get Mallet for a late rounder - I don`t like Mallet that much, but IŽd much rather take a chance on the guy with the strongest arm in the NFL that got to learn from Brady and Bellichik in the last 3 years, than with any of the remaining QBs. If it doesn`t work out, he can walk next season.

ATXtexanfan
05-10-2014, 08:25 AM
My entire outlook on the future of this organization has changed. Love this Draft so far

CretorFrigg
05-10-2014, 08:42 AM
I get the impression that O'Brien is trying to build a team, O-line and D-line, prior to finding a QB to lead that team. I agree with this method of team building. I don't think this is a 1 yr. plan, I think he's on a 2-3 yr. team building plan. And 2-3 yrs. from now I think we'll all be thrilled with the team we have that O'Brien built. I'm fine with the lack of a new QB until O'Brien gets a real chance to evaluate what we already have.

But, but, but McNair said we're not rebuilding... :clown:

Scooter
05-10-2014, 08:45 AM
Believe it or not, I probably have at least as much hope for Derrick Newton, after he's finally had an entire offseason to heal and rehab from his patellar tendon rupture surgery.

sorry doc, but i dont think health was newton's issue. it may have been AN issue, but it wasnt THE issue. dude has poor read, poor bend and poor hands. his feet were exceptionally bad, but even if he had the best wheels ever after injury, he's still bad. he doesnt have the best wheels ever - injured or not.

Seegara
05-10-2014, 09:05 AM
The true philosophy of the Texans has always been patience, strength in the trenches, and building slowly through the draft.
Because of that, we've always been "a year away"

Everyone who says our QB will be there in 2015 is the perfect Texans fan. "We are built for the long haul and will be contenders in just a few years."

I can see the excuses for passing all the QBs in next year's draft as well. "You don't force a need pick. You take BPA. We need more defensive lineman."

Sometimes you ignore needs and take the best player at the position. When your need is the most important player on the team, it's hard to see how that strategy is going to lead to success in the immediate future
Yeah, there'll be QB's in 2015, but we'll be too far down in the draft order to land a top one, unless we're going to tank this season as well.

Hervoyel
05-10-2014, 09:29 AM
Am I the only one not completely giving up on Keenum at this point? I mean it's an outside shot I know.

You're not alone. I don't think we are right but we're not alone. It's a variation of the same bug that infects the Vince and Johnny Football fans. There's no cure for us but it can be treated. The first step to recovery is admitting you have a problem.

Hi everybody. My name is Hervoyel and I am a Case Keenum fan.

EllisUnit
05-10-2014, 09:37 AM
I still believe Keenum CAN TAKE THIS TEAM TO WHERE IT WANTS TO BE. If he can get a coach who works with his strengths instead of trying to turn him into someone he is not like kubiak was then the boy has a chance.

Keenum will never be you basic pocket passer, it amazes me that when Keenum was in we never saw any boot leg passes it was always a 5-3 step drop. It almost seems to me Kubiak was wanting keenum to fail.

Thorn
05-10-2014, 09:41 AM
You're not alone. I don't think we are right but we're not alone. It's a variation of the same bug that infects the Vince and Johnny Football fans. There's no cure for us but it can be treated. The first step to recovery is admitting you have a problem.

Hi everybody. My name is Hervoyel and I am a Case Keenum fan.

Right on Herv! I'd rep ya if I could. And I'm right there with ya.

pirbroke
05-10-2014, 09:42 AM
They said on tv the now 3rd string QB for raiders might be a option for us, he has ties with OB

Thorn
05-10-2014, 09:44 AM
It almost seems to me Kubiak was wanting keenum to fail.

It would certainly appear that way. I don't know if it's true or not considering Kubiak was fighting for his job, but if nothing else, it did show Kubiak wasn't playing to Case's strengths.

pirbroke
05-10-2014, 09:44 AM
Matthew McGloin
Football player
Penn state

Texanmike02
05-10-2014, 09:45 AM
Am I the only one not completely giving up on Keenum at this point? I mean it's an outside shot I know.

Yes

Mike

Hervoyel
05-10-2014, 09:48 AM
I'm actually over it EllisUnit. Lets say we all looked at 2013 and all the reasons why Case didn't take the next step up are out of his control/hands and not his fault. Total benefit of the doubt given got it? It's still over. The NFL isn't "fair" and the NFL moves fast. A lot of guys never get much of a chance anyway. The reason teams can pick up street free agents who step in and play well all the time is because good players go home at the end of training came all the time. You have this tiny window to show what you're made of and then somebody has to make a decision about you because standing still is professional suicide. Case got signed. Case got to go to training camp. Case spent a year on the practice squad and Case shined in preseason earning him a spot on the 53. Case got to play and looked good, then OK, and then not very good at all in a bunch of starts. That's an extended look. That's more of a look than most prospects ever get.

Despite the terrible way 2013 played out I think Case's luck continues. No, I don't think he'll be the starter and/or lead us to any promised land. I'm over that. I think that his luck has continued because he wasn't sent packing immediately when OB began shaping his team. He's getting to go to offseason training with the team and work with OB. That's an opportunity. He's most likely going to impress him because he's got a high football IQ, good attitude, and soaks up coaching. That will probably get him an invite to camp where he'll get to compete for a roster spot.

But it will be as a backup almost certainly and all of that's assuming the Texans don't trade for Mallet or draft a QB at all. If they grab McCarron, Mettenberger, or Savage then Case will be fighting for the 2/3 spot with Yates.

It's almost certainly over for him after that. At least here.

rmartin65
05-10-2014, 09:51 AM
Yes

Mike

The crazy thing is, he apparently is not.

Only here would a 26 y/o QB with an 0-9 record and a 54% completion rate, and who can't read a blitz to save his life, be supported as a possible solution at QB.

Must be nice to be a local boy.

Grams
05-10-2014, 09:51 AM
It almost seems to me Kubiak was wanting keenum to fail.

I saw this also.

He may not be our QB that takes us to the promised land, but he deserves a fair shot.

texan_joe
05-10-2014, 09:55 AM
I love this draft so far, but I'd be completely psyched if the rest of thevdraft went:
#135- Shayne Skov...... big, nasty, smart ILB. Surprised he's still on the board actually.
#177- Logan Thomas...... The guy had a lot of people thinking 1st or 2nd round QB until this past season. He has GREAT size for the position (6'6" & 260lbs.), an absolute bazooka of an arm, he's mobile for a guy his size. I think his problem is betWeen the ears, and if Coach is as good with QBs as advertised, then he can work with that.
#181- Isaiah Crowell...... Might be the most talented RB in the draft. I think it's definitely worth the risk at this point for someone who could be your starter at the position soon.

Hervoyel
05-10-2014, 10:01 AM
The crazy thing is, he apparently is not.

Only here would a 26 y/o QB with an 0-9 record and a 54% completion rate, and who can't read a blitz to save his life, be supported as a possible solution at QB.

Must be nice to be a local boy.

Circumstances clouded the issue and I wish that hadn't happened (though it's par for the course in football being a team sport). Makes it hard to look at one guy you like and be objective about him.

It's like this, Say for instance the Texans had won a couple of those first few starts of his, where he looked pretty good and seemed to give the team a real spark we might be talking differently about him. They didn't though and truthfully, absolutely truthfully they didn't lose all of those games because of Case. That's a fact (kind of common fact throughout the league playing a team sport. Rarely does one guy cost the team a game all on his own). People who like Case (I'm among them) tend to point to that and say "He isn't the reason we lost".

Problem here is that he also isn't the reason we overcame whatever cost us the game and won either because well, we didn't.

It's tough to be objective when you like the guy but it's time to put the infatuation away and get on with things.

CloakNNNdagger
05-10-2014, 10:06 AM
I didn't like Newton at RT prior to the injury. I still would like to see him at guard. Between Quessenberry and Williams, hopefully they will get something. And I think one of the 6 remaining picks could be spent on the o-line. But, I would like a sure thing at RT. Maybe someone will become available?

I'm not upset about QB, because I think the Mallett deal gets done. Which would put even more emphasis on RT. Mallett isn't a Schaub type statue. But, he's not Russell Wilson, either. He needs protection.

sorry doc, but i dont think health was newton's issue. it may have been AN issue, but it wasnt THE issue. dude has poor read, poor bend and poor hands. his feet were exceptionally bad, but even if he had the best wheels ever after injury, he's still bad. he doesnt have the best wheels ever - injured or not.

I'm also looking for Newton at G (but wouldn't totally rule out RT). Keep in mind that Newton was dealing with patellar tendonitis early into his rookie season (his pre-rupture period was not the same as his pre-injury period). This condition is progressive. Under these circumstances, he likely would not have had a decent time to develop to begin with, as patellar tendonitis can be quite debilitating with a negative effect especially on a lineman who consistently has to move against great resistance. I'm not saying Newton come back as a barn burner, but I also wouldn't be surprised if he surprised some people.

Trail.Blazr
05-10-2014, 10:07 AM
The game has changed too much since then. You cant make that comparison anymore

Not comparing Johnson/Dilfer to Russell Wilson, BUT pointing out that it was done through killer Defense last season. Wilson didn't do anything more than a Johnson/Dilfer performance to hoist the lombardy. I'm not saying SB for us this season, but the D is starting to have a FEARFUL look even if half the picks play as 1st rd talent. We could be sitting in the catbird seat this time next season, which is the best I can hope for in a team overhaul.

I hope this D-line has a positive effect on the 2ndary. The next 2 picks will be telling.

gtexan02
05-10-2014, 10:07 AM
Anyone who says they are excited to see the QB prospects in 2015 just seems to have already given up on this season. That makes me sad
I'm inpatient. We've been building "the right way" for 10+ years now and where has it gotten us? 2-14.

infantrycak
05-10-2014, 10:08 AM
Wilson didn't do anything more than a Johnson/Dilfer performance to hoist the lombardy.

That is a ridiculous assertion.

Across the board Wilson kills Dilfer & Johnson in performance.

Trail.Blazr
05-10-2014, 10:09 AM
I think his problem is betWeen the ears, and if Coach is as good with QBs as advertised, then he can work with that.

#181- Isaiah Crowell


Is that you Wade Wilson?



And I would be happy with Crowell at 181. Good pick

rmartin65
05-10-2014, 10:10 AM
Anyone who says they are excited to see the QB prospects in 2015 just seems to have already given up on this season. That makes me sad
I'm inpatient. We've been building "the right way" for 10+ years now and where has it gotten us? 2-14.

Another problem with that line of thinking is that people were excited about this year's crop of QBs until a couple months into the season. The grass always looks greener.

That said, I really like the Texans' draft. They are getting talent, and not reaching for a QB that has significant question marks.

midway
05-10-2014, 10:15 AM
Seahawks did it this year. They put the clamp on the best offense in the NFL.


Sent from the future...

They also put up 43 points.

Anyone who thinks Russell Wilson is another Trent Dilfer... well let's just say I'm amazed they can manage to string together enough cogent thoughts to even manage to get on the internet.

TheIronDuke
05-10-2014, 10:56 AM
They also put up 43 points.

Anyone who thinks Russell Wilson is another Trent Dilfer... well let's just say I'm amazed they can manage to string together enough cogent thoughts to even manage to get on the internet.

The offense didn't put up 43 points, they got 9 from the defense and 7 from the ST and were given great field position all game long due to turnovers forced by the defense.

TexanBacker93
05-10-2014, 11:08 AM
Another problem with that line of thinking is that people were excited about this year's crop of QBs until a couple months into the season. The grass always looks greener.

That said, I really like the Texans' draft. They are getting talent, and not reaching for a QB that has significant question marks.

I don't recall much press about this group of QBs back in September. Of course, at the time I thought the Texans had a QB and I wasn't really following everyone from that point of view.

I think if Mariota, Hundley, or Winston were in this year's draft they'd all have gone before Bortles.

The Texans can still have a good year without getting a top flight QB. The defensive and O-line improvements could net 4 extra wins. The coaching change could net another 2. Even average QB play could add 2 more.

Draft a McCarron, Savage, Murray, Thomas in the next few rounds and let Fitz start. He was going to be the starter anyways unless the team took someone at 1.1. If the rookie isn't looking like he's picking up the offense then you make a move to get one of the 3 coming out next year.

I like what they've done. They're shoring up holes with top notch low risk guys. Get these positions set and it's a lot easier to find that QB. Getting better players can make good QBs look great.

IlliniJen
05-10-2014, 11:44 AM
It's obvious that this draft IS all about getting a QB. We're making our DL so nasty, that opposing QBs will be flocking to us in free agency in order to avoid going up against our defense.

Savvy move, O'Brien.

Vinny
05-10-2014, 11:46 AM
I think I know who we covet...but if I told you I'd have to kill you. A bunch of you. So it ain't worth it.

Thorn
05-10-2014, 11:48 AM
I think I know who we covet...but if I told you I'd have to kill you. A bunch of you. So it ain't worth it.

If you say we are trading for Vince Young I will hunt you down. :bat:

texanhead08
05-10-2014, 11:49 AM
I love what we have done so far. The past few years we have seen our front 7 on defense depleted in free agency and we saw the same thing in the oline/father time. This team was not going to bounce back to contention in one year no matter who we drafted at QB. The people who said that are friggin blind because this team had too many holes all across the board.

76Texan
05-10-2014, 12:17 PM
I'm also looking for Newton at G (but wouldn't totally rule out RT). Keep in mind that Newton was dealing with patellar tendonitis early into his rookie season (his pre-rupture period was not the same as his pre-injury period). This condition is progressive. Under these circumstances, he likely would not have had a decent time to develop to begin with, as patellar tendonitis can be quite debilitating with a negative effect especially on a lineman who consistently has to move against great resistance. I'm not saying Newton come back as a barn burner, but I also wouldn't be surprised if he surprised some people.

Didn't Newton have knee surgery in the off season last year, Doc?

I don't know if the Texans can count on either of the three guys at RT.
I hope they draft another one today.

dalemurphy
05-10-2014, 12:19 PM
Didn't Newton have knee surgery in the off season last year, Doc?

I don't know if the Texans can count on either of the three guys at RT.
I hope they draft another one today.

But having three possibilities increases the odds that one of them will pan out... It is a reasonable gamble.

76Texan
05-10-2014, 12:36 PM
Anyone who says they are excited to see the QB prospects in 2015 just seems to have already given up on this season. That makes me sad
I'm inpatient. We've been building "the right way" for 10+ years now and where has it gotten us? 2-14.

There are different way to build a team.
Nobody can deny that the Texans had problems on both sides of the ball last year.

The LG and the RT positions were deficient. The TEs spent more time in the tub than on the field, and the running game was never there to carry it's own load.
The pass rush was nonexistent but for Watt.
The D couldn't get off the field; instead, they helped prolong drive for opponents.
And our LBS also joined the other guys in the tub.

It is ludicrous to ask any QB to perform well under those circumstances.

What we know for a fact is that Keenum had leapfrogged Yates in the pecking order.
That's improvement, whether people want to admit it or not.
The team did not use their five (of their top six) spots to draft a QB.
These facts ought to tell something.

If the Texans are going to make a blockbuster move to trade for a legit QB, they will get back to square one. This is highly unlikely.

I wish people just realize this and move on.

GuerillaBlack
05-10-2014, 12:36 PM
Sounds like my thoughts back when Kubes first arrived.

Well, to be fair, Kubes did increase the talent on this team.

Vance87
05-10-2014, 12:37 PM
The crazy thing is, he apparently is not.

Only here would a 26 y/o QB with an 0-9 record and a 54% completion rate, and who can't read a blitz to save his life, be supported as a possible solution at QB.

Must be nice to be a local boy.

Local has absolutely nothing to do with it. If he was from Saskatchewan University I'd feel the same.

GuerillaBlack
05-10-2014, 12:40 PM
You're not alone. I don't think we are right but we're not alone. It's a variation of the same bug that infects the Vince and Johnny Football fans. There's no cure for us but it can be treated. The first step to recovery is admitting you have a problem.

Hi everybody. My name is Hervoyel and I am a Case Keenum fan.

http://s3.amazonaws.com/br-cdn/temp_images/2013/11/04/KeenumTDJOhnson.gif

http://s3.amazonaws.com/br-cdn/temp_images/2013/11/04/JohnsonTD23.gif

http://s3.amazonaws.com/br-cdn/temp_images/2013/11/04/KeenumJohnson3.gif

santo
05-10-2014, 01:02 PM
I still believe in Keenum.

*Puts on UofH Alumni rose colored glasses on*


On a side note, can we get McCarron and get rid of Yates? :marionaner:

Playoffs
05-10-2014, 01:06 PM
Logan Thomas to Cards.

Texecutioner
05-10-2014, 01:54 PM
I still believe in Keenum.

*Puts on UofH Alumni rose colored glasses on*


On a side note, can we get McCarron and get rid of Yates? :marionaner:

I don't really believe win him anymore at this point, but I wouldn't mind giving him a serious shot at this point over the handful of QB's left in this draft. He has had a year of experience practically and he does have an arm in case people forgot. I don't think he could beat out Fitzpatrick though. I'm okay going with Fitzpatrick at this point over what is left over in this draft. I'd rather focus next season on a QB.

Marcus
05-10-2014, 02:12 PM
I'm excited that they're focusing on the trenches. It's the proper way to turn a team around. And I love the picks. That tight end is going to be really good player.

I got to admit, I was really wanting to get Garopollo. His quick release and feet had me sold. But I love the guard they took instead. I was hoping like mad that he would fall to 3.1, but of all teams to pick him, it just had to be the f'king Patriots. :brickwall: When Belichick gets his hands on him, look the F out! Say hello to Tom Brady's replacement.

Regarding this "giving up on Keenum" thing, why of course I've given up on him. Who wouldn't? He was an established veteran who was given time to learn and develop, not some rookie who was never really given a chance. Yeah, get rid of him.

Playoffs
05-10-2014, 02:16 PM
Really liking this draft for us. Got guys we needed, didn't overpay...

Three selections had 1st round grades by a lot of people.

Wish we had a bunch more picks.

CloakNNNdagger
05-10-2014, 02:37 PM
Didn't Newton have knee surgery in the off season last year, Doc?

.

Yep.......and was never given the proper time to rehab before being forced into play.......and never had any chance to recover.........until the season was over. That's why I haven't given up on him until we see how he looks this preseason.

Marcus
05-10-2014, 02:44 PM
Yep.......and was never given the proper time to rehab before being forced into play.......and never had any chance to recover.........until the season was over. That's why I haven't given up on him until we see how he looks this preseason.

What have you heard about Brennan's rehab/recovery?

DBCooper
05-10-2014, 02:48 PM
Why is everyone so high on the Mullet QB? Obviously Belicheck doesn't think much of him, or he wouldn't have taken Gaparo...whatever.

I don't even want Mallet. I hope they don't trade anything for him.

Belichick took G-man because he already has a deal in place with O'Brien, but they don't want to announce the deal until after the draft so as to confuse the simpletons.

Marcus
05-10-2014, 03:25 PM
Belichick took G-man because he already has a deal in place with O'Brien, but they don't want to announce the deal until after the draft so as to confuse the simpletons.

If that's anywhere near the truth, it wouldn't just suck, it would blow chunks.

CloakNNNdagger
05-10-2014, 03:47 PM
What have you heard about Brennan's rehab/recovery?

Nothing other than he was on the side field during minicamp. His microfracture surgery was on Sept 4. Return to full play would be expected to be around 9 months following the surgery, but easily could not occur for 1 year, if he can make it back. Even if he does make it back, I would expect that he will require long-term limited play time and decreased performance expectations.

76Texan
05-10-2014, 03:54 PM
Nothing other than he was on the side field during minicamp. His microfracture surgery was on Sept 4. Return to full play would be expected to be around 9 months following the surgery, but easily could not occur for 1 year, if he can make it back. Even if he does make it back, I would expect that he will require long-term limited play time and decreased performance expectations.

I hope they sign a FA.

Corrosion
05-10-2014, 04:52 PM
I hope they sign a FA.

Tennessee OT Antonio Richardson is still on the board as of pick 202 with the Texans picking at 211. Cant believe he's fallen this far. Many had him as a second or third round pick.

All the CB's I had targeted are gone ...

76Texan
05-10-2014, 05:13 PM
Tennessee OT Antonio Richardson is still on the board as of pick 202 with the Texans picking at 211. Cant believe he's fallen this far. Many had him as a second or third round pick.

All the CB's I had targeted are gone ...

His medical condition must have been much worse than we think.

CloakNNNdagger
05-10-2014, 05:39 PM
His medical condition must have been much worse than we think.

He's had a little known problem besides recovery from his 2012 knee surgery..........an ankle problem..........a chronic ankle problem. Ever since he injured the ankle in 2010, he's been dealing with it. Last year, in several games, he pulled up lame........and it was evident that it was not from a knee problem. His poorer performance last year has naturally been blamed on his knee, which I have heard is still an issue in itself. However, I would make book that his ankle problem has been as much contributory to his drop off as his knee.

Nitrofish
05-10-2014, 05:45 PM
I'm also looking for Newton at G (but wouldn't totally rule out RT). Keep in mind that Newton was dealing with patellar tendonitis early into his rookie season (his pre-rupture period was not the same as his pre-injury period). This condition is progressive. Under these circumstances, he likely would not have had a decent time to develop to begin with, as patellar tendonitis can be quite debilitating with a negative effect especially on a lineman who consistently has to move against great resistance. I'm not saying Newton come back as a barn burner, but I also wouldn't be surprised if he surprised some people.

Then why was he out there? If my $1000 wheel was in danger of being damaged on my car because of a flat tire, I would not run the car on the rim, I would stick that skinny little spare on there and protect my asset regardless of what my car looked like during this time.

I find it hard to be accept that there was not another option that would have been better for the player and the team overall. I think I have made my opinion on Newton clear, and that has not changed. If he is the player I think he is, he will not make the 53 man roster.

Local has absolutely nothing to do with it. If he was from Saskatchewan University I'd feel the same.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37OWL7AzvHo

76Texan
05-18-2014, 08:32 PM
Yeah, there'll be QB's in 2015, but we'll be too far down in the draft order to land a top one, unless we're going to tank this season as well.

So, we're going to be deep into the playoffs?

Whoopie!
What are you complaining about then?

House of Pain
05-19-2014, 11:53 AM
Now that we are past the draft and free agency we can see how our team is stacking up. How well we do this season will depend a great deal on how quickly this team (especially the rookies) are able to learn the system and if they are able to be effective in that system. Duh. I know.

I still think at a minimum this team will win 4 games or so. IMO, this would be a gross underachievement based on the amount of talent on the roster and the experience of our coaching staff. However, I think the ceiling on this team is sneaking into the playoffs. I do not expect them to get into the playoffs, but if the Texans figure it out and play mistake free football, they have a possibility to get into the playoffs. I base this rationale on two things:

1.) Going from a 1st place schedule to a 4th place schedule--low level of competition faced; and,
2.) Getting more out of the players than what we saw under the Kubiak regime.

As for #1, I'm thinking they may do what the Colts did when they rebounded from their 2-14 season. They played worse competition and thus won more games. Of course this is contingent on getting steady, but not exceptional play from the QB position, which is a big question mark. IIRC, Andrew Luck threw almost as many INTs as TDs that year, but still were able to make it to the playoffs.

Regarding #2, as much as I wanted Kubes and his perfect, magnificent hair to succeed, IMO I don't think he used all the weapons available to him and when he did, he didn't put them in a position to succeed. Especially the offense. My case-in-point: James Casey. He could have been using him several different ways, instead he was content to try to use him as Vonta Leech, Jr.

I think that our organization made the smart, safe play regarding our QB situation, and although I'm not thrilled with Fitz, Savage or Keenum/Yates, I believe that one of them, or some combination of them can get us to the first round of the playoffs assuming we catch a break here or there. If we 'fail' this year, we can still trade up and get a QB that we like next year.

drs23
05-19-2014, 01:42 PM
Now that we are past the draft and free agency we can see how our team is stacking up. How well we do this season will depend a great deal on how quickly this team (especially the rookies) are able to learn the system and if they are able to be effective in that system. Duh. I know. ...

I've given this some thought as well and came to a different conclusion. That being the rooks coming in are all coming into a new system to them so it would be the same learning curve regardless of which team they signed with.

The vets on the other hand have be entrenched in a system they've played in since they've been here. Granted, some longer than others but still a system they practiced every season,every day. Now they're walking into the same camp with the same experience in this new system just like the rookies. My concern is how quickly THE VETS pick it up. I think that's a legitimate concern.

steelbtexan
05-19-2014, 05:09 PM
Now that we are past the draft and free agency we can see how our team is stacking up. How well we do this season will depend a great deal on how quickly this team (especially the rookies) are able to learn the system and if they are able to be effective in that system. Duh. I know.

I still think at a minimum this team will win 4 games or so. IMO, this would be a gross underachievement based on the amount of talent on the roster and the experience of our coaching staff. However, I think the ceiling on this team is sneaking into the playoffs. I do not expect them to get into the playoffs, but if the Texans figure it out and play mistake free football, they have a possibility to get into the playoffs. I base this rationale on two things:

1.) Going from a 1st place schedule to a 4th place schedule--low level of competition faced; and,
2.) Getting more out of the players than what we saw under the Kubiak regime.

As for #1, I'm thinking they may do what the Colts did when they rebounded from their 2-14 season. They played worse competition and thus won more games. Of course this is contingent on getting steady, but not exceptional play from the QB position, which is a big question mark. IIRC, Andrew Luck threw almost as many INTs as TDs that year, but still were able to make it to the playoffs.

Regarding #2, as much as I wanted Kubes and his perfect, magnificent hair to succeed, IMO I don't think he used all the weapons available to him and when he did, he didn't put them in a position to succeed. Especially the offense. My case-in-point: James Casey. He could have been using him several different ways, instead he was content to try to use him as Vonta Leech, Jr.

I think that our organization made the smart, safe play regarding our QB situation, and although I'm not thrilled with Fitz, Savage or Keenum/Yates, I believe that one of them, or some combination of them can get us to the first round of the playoffs assuming we catch a break here or there. If we 'fail' this year, we can still trade up and get a QB that we like next year.

This is where I'm at with the team in general and the QB position in particular. If the QB's are bad the Texans will probably be picking in the 10-12 range. It shouldn't cost that much to move up to say #4 like Buffalo did this yr. Good thing is, you wont be reaching for a QB. Is Hackenberg (SP?) draft eligible next yr?

CloakNNNdagger
05-20-2014, 08:05 AM
This is where I'm at with the team in general and the QB position in particular. If the QB's are bad the Texans will probably be picking in the 10-12 range. It shouldn't cost that much to move up to say #4 like Buffalo did this yr. Good thing is, you wont be reaching for a QB. Is Hackenberg (SP?) draft eligible next yr?

No, not until 2016 (Last year was his freshman year).

drs23
05-20-2014, 09:41 AM
This is where I'm at with the team in general and the QB position in particular. If the QB's are bad the Texans will probably be picking in the 10-12 range. It shouldn't cost that much to move up to say #4 like Buffalo did this yr. Good thing is, you wont be reaching for a QB. Is Hackenberg (SP?) draft eligible next yr?

No, not until 2016 (Last year was his freshman year).

Soooo. We can be mediocre this season and need to suck next season to draft a QB(s) that are the best to ever fondle a pigskin in college but will drop like rocks when draft eligible?

Did I get this right? :kitten:

DBCooper
05-20-2014, 10:43 AM
Soooo. We can be mediocre this season and need to suck next season to draft a QB(s) that are the best to ever fondle a pigskin in college but will drop like rocks when draft eligible?

Did I get this right? :kitten:

Haven't you heard?

We are going to suck this year because we have no QB worth a damn.

Might as well not even show up until we draft the next Manning or Brady.

drs23
05-20-2014, 11:46 AM
Haven't you heard?

We are going to suck this year because we have no QB worth a damn.

Might as well not even show up until we draft the next Manning or Brady.

Works for me I reckon. Guess I'll spend my Sundays like I'm doing during the offseason. Taking the grandbabies to the park to fly kites, swing-N-climb on the jungle bars and feed the ducks.

They really like feeding the ducks and the ducks like it too.

A real win/win. :D

Double Barrel
05-20-2014, 12:39 PM
Works for me I reckon. Guess I'll spend my Sundays like I'm doing during the offseason. Taking the grandbabies to the park to fly kites, swing-N-climb on the jungle bars and feed the ducks.

They really like feeding the ducks and the ducks like it too.

A real win/win. :D

You're always better off feeding the ducks with your grandkids. :)

I'm glad I've got a DVR. I will definitely watch the games, but my priorities in life do not make a mediocre football team at the top of my list. And while I hate to be a bubble-popper and certainly hope for the best, my expectations in 2014 are mediocre.

Two 2-14 seasons in 8 years will do that to a fan.

drs23
05-20-2014, 01:13 PM
You're always better off feeding the ducks with your grandkids. :)

I'm glad I've got a DVR. I will definitely watch the games, but my priorities in life do not make a mediocre football team at the top of my list. And while I hate to be a bubble-popper and certainly hope for the best, my expectations in 2014 are mediocre.

Two 2-14 seasons in 8 years will do that to a fan.

Yep, can't beat a Sunday afternoon at the park. When time is nigh I'll clear the memory on the DVR all the Texans games hoping for the best, and few select others. They'll be there when I get home and I stay up pretty late anyway so it's not like FF'ding through the commercials is gonna cost me any beauty rest.

Not that I need it anyway. :winky:

Double Barrel
05-20-2014, 01:56 PM
Yep, can't beat a Sunday afternoon at the park. When time is nigh I'll clear the memory on the DVR all the Texans games hoping for the best, and few select others. They'll be there when I get home and I stay up pretty late anyway so it's not like FF'ding through the commercials is gonna cost me any beauty rest.

Not that I need it anyway. :winky:

I agree completely. Especially many autumn days in Texas. The weather is often so awesome that I feel guilty staying inside watching tv.

My 5 yo girl needs her daddy to do quality time more than I need to yell at the tv in frustration over a sporting even that I have no influence. ;)

Besides, my son and I can watch an entire game in about an hour on the DVR. Amazing how little action there is when you take out the commercials, halftime, and general blathering by the talking heads. Of course, always with the caveat that I have complete media blackout until I watch the game.

drs23
05-20-2014, 04:52 PM
I agree completely. Especially many autumn days in Texas. The weather is often so awesome that I feel guilty staying inside watching tv.

My 5 yo girl needs her daddy to do quality time more than I need to yell at the tv in frustration over a sporting even that I have no influence. ;)

Besides, my son and I can watch an entire game in about an hour on the DVR. Amazing how little action there is when you take out the commercials, halftime, and general blathering by the talking heads. Of course, always with the caveat that I have complete media blackout until I watch the game.

Roger that. Ixnay on the trailers. :cutthroat:

2slik4u
05-20-2014, 05:14 PM
no improvement on the biggest and most important position on a nfl team?

NO PROBLEM.



smdh....

this is what happens when you suck so long. you dont even care anymore. you find ways to rationalize any idiotic move and the process repeats itself over and over again.

a loser's mentality.


sad stuff.


Aren't you a Bills fan?

powda
05-20-2014, 05:22 PM
you dont even care anymore. you find ways to rationalize any idiotic move and the process repeats itself over and over again.

Wouldnt drafting a QB #1 overall because we're supposed to be like repeating the Carr mistake?

Blake
05-20-2014, 05:26 PM
Aren't you a Bills fan?

Lord Bills turns up dragon ball Z google results. Must be a fan.

DBCooper
05-20-2014, 05:27 PM
Lord Bills turns up dragon ball Z google results. Must be a fan.

Fruit Bat

Blake
05-20-2014, 05:28 PM
no improvement on the biggest and most important position on a nfl team?

NO PROBLEM.

How is QB the biggest position? I understand most important. But biggest doesnt make any sense.

Did you watch Schaub last year? They improved BIG TIME. :fingergun:

Porky
05-20-2014, 06:55 PM
I could see 4 wins in a worst case scenario up to 10 wins in a best case scenario.

In hindsight, I'm glad they didn't reach for a QB and let the board fall to them. Savage has some real upside. Physically, he's what you want. It's his lack of experience and what's going on upstairs....that will tell the tale. He could be the next Tom Brady, or the next Marcia Brady. Time will tell.

As far as Keenum, he's hot garbage. Unless he can somehow learn to read coverages, understand hot reads, etc in a hurry he'll be your local State Farm Agent very soon. He made some good plays until defenses learned he didn't have a clue and then...it was over.

eriadoc
05-20-2014, 07:28 PM
Yep, can't beat a Sunday afternoon at the park.

Sure you can - a Sunday afternoon on the water with a fishing pole. :)

DBCooper
05-20-2014, 07:29 PM
Sure you can - a Sunday afternoon on the water with a fishing pole. :)

And a beer!

eriadoc
05-20-2014, 07:29 PM
How is QB the biggest position? I understand most important. But biggest doesnt make any sense.

No, it doesn't. I think Guard is, personally. :D

ObsiWan
05-20-2014, 07:34 PM
I could see 4 wins in a worst case scenario up to 10 wins in a best case scenario.

In hindsight, I'm glad they didn't reach for a QB and let the board fall to them. Savage has some real upside. Physically, he's what you want. It's his lack of experience and what's going on upstairs....that will tell the tale. He could be the next Tom Brady, or the next Marcia Brady. Time will tell.

As far as Keenum, he's hot garbage. Unless he can somehow learn to read coverages, understand hot reads, etc in a hurry he'll be your local State Farm Agent very soon. He made some good plays until defenses learned he didn't have a clue and then...it was over.
but we have a great and powerful quarterback guru to teach him the ways of the Force....