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ObsiWan
05-24-2014, 11:21 AM
Not very original HE, I thought you were better than that, no rep for you.

Not much difference between me and all of y'all. When Clowney does do his best Aundray Bruce impression, all of y'all will be barking like crazed dogs and singing like a bunch of Whiffenpoofs, what in the heck were the Texas thinking taking a DE with only 3 sacks, who not only took plays off but entire games as well. You'll quickly will disavow all man love for Clowney and demand a Kirby house cleaning.

As one who wanted to (a) trade out of 1-1 for more picks or (b) grab Robinson to plug in at RT (and groom for LT when DB starts to slow down), I hope the Texans were right in taking Clowney and passing on the (albeit rumored) trade offers.

O'Brien is on record (http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Bill-OBrien-has-no-concerns-with-Jadeveon-Clowneys-motor.html) as "not concerned" with Clowney taking plays off in college

One of the main concerns clouding Clowney is that he's not a high-motor player on game days. O'Brien said he didn't have those reservations.


"I don't have any concerns about his motor," he said. "There are 90 plays a game in college. You'd be hard-pressed to find a defensive lineman to go like his life's on the line ... He played a lot of plays. He played hard this year. I think when the game was on the line — the Tennessee game, the Georgia game — this guy showed up and made a lot of plays."We'll all be watching with great interest to see if O'Brien is right.

thunderkyss
05-24-2014, 01:13 PM
Now as far as Bortles goes, I think it was a very gutsy call by the Jags and their HC/GM, I commend them for it and would say the same about OB/Smith had they drafted Bortles, but apparently they just didn't see what the Jags saw.

They plan to red-shirt him. Maybe the Texans didn't see the value in taking him with a top 5 pick, then sitting him an entire year... maybe they did & he was the target of their trade-down, if they worked one out.

Who knows.

At this point in time, there are dozens of stars in the NFL. There's room for a really good Bortles & a really good Clowney. Just like there is room for a really good Jj Watt & a could one day be really good Andrew Luck.

doesn't have to be either or.

IDEXAN
05-24-2014, 01:57 PM
They plan to red-shirt him. Maybe the Texans didn't see the value in taking him with a top 5 pick, then sitting him an entire year... maybe they did & he was the target of their trade-down, if they worked one out.

Who knows.

At this point in time, there are dozens of stars in the NFL. There's room for a really good Bortles & a really good Clowney. Just like there is room for a really good Jj Watt & a could one day be really good Andrew Luck.

doesn't have to be either or.
That may be the plan today, but since they saw enough there to use the #3 overall for him, based upon that sizable investment they could quickly accelerate that schedule if they begin to see more in TC/pre-season games games from Bortles.

thunderkyss
05-24-2014, 02:11 PM
That may be the plan today, but since they saw enough there to use the #3 overall for him, based upon that sizable investment they could quickly accelerate that schedule if they begin to see more in TC/pre-season games games from Bortles.

That is besides the point. They are saying they drafted him knowing they were going to sit him. Maybe the Texans saw the same thing, but decided to draft a player who can contribute in 2014.

IDEXAN
05-24-2014, 02:32 PM
That is besides the point. They are saying they drafted him knowing they were going to sit him. Maybe the Texans saw the same thing, but decided to draft a player who can contribute in 2014.

Why would they be concentrating on 2014, they aren't Denver or somebody like that looking for a SB win now, they are instead looking longer-term as the Jags surely are. I'm pretty sure OB just didn't see enough of what he was looking for in a QB to draft Bortles while Jacksonville did.

thunderkyss
05-24-2014, 02:45 PM
Why would they be concentrating on 2014, they aren't Denver or somebody like that looking for a SB win now, they are instead looking longer-term as the Jags surely are. I'm pretty sure OB just didn't see enough of what he was looking for in a QB to draft Bortles while Jacksonville did.

Long-term starts today.

They're just taking different approaches. Jacksonville spent a lot of resources in FA to accomplish what we accomplished in the draft.

IDEXAN
05-24-2014, 03:17 PM
Long-term starts today.

They're just taking different approaches. Jacksonville spent a lot of resources in FA to accomplish what we accomplished in the draft.
"but decided to draft a player who can contribute in 2014/long-term."
****
Whatever ?

welsh texan
05-24-2014, 03:28 PM
What is the argument here? You think Jax would have picked Bortles over Clowney at #1??

thunderkyss
05-24-2014, 03:31 PM
"but decided to draft a player who can contribute in 2014/long-term."
****
Whatever ?

Winning today sets up winning tomorrow. We improved our trenches in the draft. They improved theirs in FA. Different approaches, that's all.

They decided the best thing for the long term of their club was to draft a QB they didn't feel was ready to start day 1. We didn't.

Maybe the Texans believe Savage sitting for a year is equivalent to Bortles sitting for a year. Maybe, I don't know.

But yes, I think drafting a player that can help contribute to wins in 2014 is a long term strategy, more so, anyway, than using a valuable asset to acquire a player who won't play in 2014.

Bortles... Savage... tell me, what's the difference?

IDEXAN
05-24-2014, 03:54 PM
Winning today sets up winning tomorrow. We improved our trenches in the draft. They improved theirs in FA. Different approaches, that's all.

They decided the best thing for the long term of their club was to draft a QB they didn't feel was ready to start day 1. We didn't.

Maybe the Texans believe Savage sitting for a year is equivalent to Bortles sitting for a year. Maybe, I don't know.

But yes, I think drafting a player that can help contribute to wins in 2014 is a long term strategy, more so, anyway, than using a valuable asset to acquire a player who won't play in 2014.

Bortles... Savage... tell me, what's the difference?
132 positions in the Draft, i.e., a helluva lot.

thunderkyss
05-24-2014, 04:47 PM
132 positions in the Draft, i.e., a helluva lot.

& we'll see if Bortles was worth it.

ObsiWan
05-24-2014, 05:47 PM
What is the argument here? You think Jax would have picked Bortles over Clowney at #1??
Yeah,I'm confused too.
What IS the argument?
...that Bortles wasn't worth the #3 pick.
...that we should have picked a QB earlier? If so, who?

Honoring Earl 34
05-24-2014, 05:58 PM
Yeah,I'm confused too.
What IS the argument?
...that Bortles wasn't worth the #3 pick.
...that we should have picked a QB earlier? If so, who?

Texian believes Bortles is Elway and Clowney is Aundray Bruce . Not only that but he thinks the Jags cleaned up in FA . Them Jags are so sneaky that I can't see these stud muffins on the depth chart .

Playoffs
05-24-2014, 07:07 PM
You think Jax would have picked Bortles over Clowney at #1??Not hardly. Not at 2, not at 3.

What is the argument here?
Yeah,I'm confused too. What IS the argument?


I guess a few think their scouting opinions & players evaluations are better than O'Brien's and the other professional's. If so, that's cool.

What is your(their) track record? Did you jump for joy when we drafted JJ Watt? What did you think of those 2011 QBs? Who'd you like in 2012 for the Texans? How did your other highlighted favorites work out?

Also, are you more a fan of the Texans or your own opinion?

bhsman
05-25-2014, 01:10 AM
He doesn't respond to any specific arguments and just goes "Clowney will be just like [insert bust]! You'll all see! 3 sacks!" and refuses to acknowledge any substantive claim against his.

Don't feed the troll, y'all. :cow:

ObsiWan
05-25-2014, 09:22 AM
Well I was all about Robinson/Matthews but when they went Clowney I let it go.

No point in stressing over stuff I cannot influence, much less control.

Honoring Earl 34
05-25-2014, 09:55 AM
He doesn't respond to any specific arguments and just goes "Clowney will be just like [insert bust]! You'll all see! 3 sacks!" and refuses to acknowledge any substantive claim against his.

Don't feed the troll, y'all. :cow:

Texian Bills or Lord Texian ? :fans:

http://blogs.ourlads.com/2014/05/16/afc-south-2014-nfl-draft-2/

There aren’t many teams that end up with the #1 overall selection already having the talent and potential that Houston did. Coincidentally we saw this happen in 2013 with Kansas City, and look what happened there. Houston needed to strengthen up at the point of attack on both sides of the ball as well as find a signal caller for Bill O’Brien to mold in a potential starter down the road. They really like Savage, which presented the opportunity for them to build up other areas of the team without sacrificing value. Besides Savage, one could make the argument 6 of their first 7 picks are going to help this team win the battles in the trenches. When a team has enough talent at the skill positions, that is often the piece that brings everything together on a weekly basis.

leebigeztx
05-25-2014, 11:58 AM
Not hardly. Not at 2, not at 3.




I guess a few think their scouting opinions & players evaluations are better than O'Brien's and the other professional's. If so, that's cool.

What is your(their) track record? Did you jump for joy when we drafted JJ Watt? What did you think of those 2011 QBs? Who'd you like in 2012 for the Texans? How did your other highlighted favorites work out?

Also, are you more a fan of the Texans or your own opinion?

I call nfln radio alot and talk to kirwan. In that draft, I told him the only qb worth a 1st was cam. If mallett didht have the issues, he wouldve been a early 2. None of those guys drafted in the 1st shouldve been drafted before rd 3. None,gabbert,ponder,or locker had the college production of the 3 1st rd qbs this yr. In regard to watt, I was super pleased the texans got him. I thought aldon was gonna fall to the texans, but he went a few picks earlier. I was suprised the cowboys didnt draft watt,but they opted for smith. I make no bones, I wanted bridgewater. I was surprised they didnt improve the qb room. I mean, the patriots have brady and they took a qb before the texans.

76Texan
05-25-2014, 12:24 PM
I call nfln radio alot and talk to kirwan. In that draft, I told him the only qb worth a 1st was cam. If mallett didht have the issues, he wouldve been a early 2. None of those guys drafted in the 1st shouldve been drafted before rd 3. None,gabbert,ponder,or locker had the college production of the 3 1st rd qbs this yr. In regard to watt, I was super pleased the texans got him. I thought aldon was gonna fall to the texans, but he went a few picks earlier. I was suprised the cowboys didnt draft watt,but they opted for smith. I make no bones, I wanted bridgewater. I was surprised they didnt improve the qb room. I mean, the patriots have brady and they took a qb before the texans.

So, are they (the Patriots) high on Mallett?
What do you think Belichik ' s reasoning in drafting Garropolo?

IDEXAN
05-25-2014, 01:14 PM
So, are they (the Patriots) high on Mallett?
What do you think Belichik ' s reasoning in drafting Garropolo?
I think it's mainly cap consideration as Garropla will be under contract for 4 years while Mallet will become an unrestricted FA after this season at which time he will command much higher compensation than Garropolo. And this way they've got Mallet another season while the rookie has the season to "learn the ropes" as Brady's BU.

76Texan
05-25-2014, 02:08 PM
I think it's mainly cap consideration as Garropla will be under contract for 4 years while Mallet will become an unrestricted FA after this season at which time he will command much higher compensation than Garropolo. And this way they've got Mallet another season while the rookie has the season to "learn the ropes" as Brady's BU.

I don't know, IDEXAN.

If we look at the FA QB signing this offseason, the guys that were signed to a somewhat good to good contracts are guys that have shown enough in their careers.

Mallett has nothing on his pro resume.

You add to it the fact that Belichik was willing to spend a second round pick on a QB, the thinking that Mallett can be a decent to good starting NFL QB seems to be on unsupporting ground.

To be honest, I was not aware of Mallett's off-the-field question marks, I just didn't see a good NFL QB in him.

I saw Newton, Dalton, and Kaepernick and a few so-so guys, Mallett included.

I don't remember exactly how I came to that conclusion since I had to clear my head every year to look at new prospects at all the positions.

I don't know how other coaches and GMs can have information now that would put Mallett over the top.

infantrycak
05-25-2014, 02:17 PM
I don't know, IDEXAN.

If we look at the FA QB signing this offseason, the guys that were signed to a somewhat good to good contracts are guys that have shown enough in their careers.

Mallett has nothing on his pro resume.

You add to it the fact that Belichik was willing to spend a second round pick on a QB, the thinking that Mallett can be a decent to good starting NFL QB seems to be on unsupporting ground.

To be honest, I was not aware of Mallett's off-the-field question marks, I just didn't see a good NFL QB in him.

I saw Newton, Dalton, and Kaepernick and a few so-so guys, Mallett included.

I don't remember exactly how I came to that conclusion since I had to clear my head every year to look at new prospects at all the positions.

I don't know how other coaches and GMs can have information now that would put Mallett over the top.

Man you should have GMs lined up outside your door. You had Mallett in the right Goldilocks porridge pot while in complete ignorance of the issues that caused him to land there due to their total misevaluation of his talent otherwise being higher. Plus the foresight to see exactly the QBs who are currently still starters. Reveal yourself to the NFL and collect your crystal football.

Honoring Earl 34
05-25-2014, 03:04 PM
Man you should have GMs lined up outside your door. You had Mallett in the right Goldilocks porridge pot while in complete ignorance of the issues that caused him to land there due to their total misevaluation of his talent otherwise being higher. Plus the foresight to see exactly the QBs who are currently still starters. Reveal yourself to the NFL and collect your crystal football.

The NFL draft is like match.com or in the Texans case it was Christian singles .com in that big breasted blonde ( big armed tall guy ) gets the most hits but it doesn't mean she's a good fit or talented . It probably takes many a hit before you find a good match .

Ps. This was way after my courting years .

76Texan
05-25-2014, 03:13 PM
Man you should have GMs lined up outside your door. You had Mallett in the right Goldilocks porridge pot while in complete ignorance of the issues that caused him to land there due to their total misevaluation of his talent otherwise being higher. Plus the foresight to see exactly the QBs who are currently still starters. Reveal yourself to the NFL and collect your crystal football.

No Cak, I merely reiterate that I never care much for things off the football field.
If I happen to hear about it, then so be it.

I have let it be known that I do not care for the business side of football.

Also, I've always said that regular people (even draftniks) don't have the resources that afford a sport organization.

The fact that guys like me, who just love to study prospects for the next level is just that.
We still have a lot of disagreement.
It doesn't matter to me who's right or wrong on how many call.
It is a hobby.
There isn't the smartest guy in the room.

It's like a journey.
The fun is getting there, not after.

Lighten up, dude.

Playoffs
05-25-2014, 03:59 PM
So, are they (the Patriots) high on Mallett?

Pats are high on Brady, which means timing dictates Mallett will get his second contract elsewhere.

What do you think Belichik' s reasoning in drafting Garropolo?

It's interesting. Patriots didn't have a 3rd round pick, but the next QB selected was Savage at the back end of round 4.

Belichick had to figure Jimmy G. would've gone to somebody in the 3rd and he had to get a QB because of the Mallet situation... his hand was forced.

76Texan
05-25-2014, 04:13 PM
Pats are high on Brady, which means timing dictates Mallett will get his second contract elsewhere.



It's interesting. Patriots didn't have a 3rd round pick, but the next QB selected was Savage at the back end of round 4.

Belichick had to figure Jimmy G. would've gone to somebody in the 3rd and he had to get a QB because of the Mallet situation... his hand was forced.

Well, I'm glad that you respond first.
It means that whatever my next question is, we both know it's not about your intelligence or mine.

What can be considered a somewhat legitimate guess as of Mallett's next contract, and what dictates the level of that contract?

Playoffs
05-25-2014, 04:25 PM
What can be considered a somewhat legitimate guess as of Mallett's next contract, and what dictates the level of that contract?

http://www.rotoworld.com/articles/nfl/45947/309/2014-nfl-free-agents

Top of this year's class got ~$5 million per(on paper)... above that.

If the Texans want him I bet it's higher. Depends alot on different team's circumstances in a year.

Marshall
05-25-2014, 04:27 PM
Well, I'm glad that you respond first.
It means that whatever my next question is, we both know it's not about your intelligence or mine.

What can be considered a somewhat legitimate guess as of Mallett's next contract, and what dictates the level of that contract?

Someone who doesn't get their guy in the draft or has an injury late in this season to their QB will pay him a couple of mil guaranteed or more with conditional restrictions. He is now a 1 year insurance policy for the Patriots.

76Texan
05-25-2014, 04:28 PM
In another word, are there GMs and/or HC'S who think highly enough of Mallett to either:

1. Go after him in the FA market as if he's the savior of the franchise.

2. He can be better than any QB drafted in 2015

3. He may not be as good as A (let me just take Mariotta as the number one guy). He may not be as good as Winston (but our organization don't want to deal with Winston ' s situation). "This certain organization" thinks that he's a better solution that guys like Hundley, and so forth.
IMO, if they do, they would at least give up a second for him this year. The Texans gave up two plus for Schaub.

4. What is it Mallett's market value?

76Texan
05-25-2014, 04:31 PM
Someone who doesn't get their guy in the draft or has an injury late in this season to their QB will pay him a couple of mil guaranteed or more with conditional restrictions. He is now a 1 year insurance policy for the Patriots.

In 2014 or after the season?
If in 2014, how ? In what scenario?

76Texan
05-25-2014, 04:33 PM
http://www.rotoworld.com/articles/nfl/45947/309/2014-nfl-free-agents

Top of this year's class got ~$5 million per(on paper)... above that.

If the Texans want him I bet it's higher. Depends alot on different team's circumstances in a year.

What says that Mallett is in the top of the class?

Playoffs
05-25-2014, 05:04 PM
What says that Mallett is in the top of the class?It's who, not what. OB who knows Mallett, and George Godsey, who's been with him even longer. If they don't think Mallett's ceiling is higher than this year's class -- outside of McCown who's 35 and may be a result of his system -- it's not a high bar, then it's a problem.

Vick, Sanchez, McCown, Cassel, Fitzpatrick, Henne.

I don't know who'll be in next year's class or if we'll be in the market to sign a FA QB.

...they would at least give up a second for him this year. The Texans gave up two plus for Schaub. Don't see that happening... never a 2nd, and unlikely to happen as it would require the Patriots being out of playoff contention for them to dump him mid-season.

4. What is it Mallett's market value?
Mallet's market value will be determined in about a year.

76Texan
05-25-2014, 05:16 PM
It's who, not what. OB who knows Mallett, and George Godsey, who's been with him even longer. If they don't think Mallett's ceiling is higher than this year's class -- outside of McCown who's 35 and may be a result of his system -- it's not a high bar, then it's a problem.

Vick, Sanchez, McCown, Cassel, Fitzpatrick, Henne.

I don't know who'll be in next year's class or if we'll be in the market to sign a FA QB.


Mallet's market value will be determined in about a year.

Let me just ask this question.
When was OB with the Patriots last?
What was Mallett doing then?
Was he already so outstanding that OB would say "Man, I would have this guy if I ever coach in the NFL".

And if he had already proven so, why would Belichik wants to give him up without a king ransom?

Things don't tie together for me.

76Texan
05-25-2014, 05:29 PM
Let's look at it a different way.
Was Mallett worth 1.1 to the Texans?
No, because otherwise, a deal was simple.

Was he worth 2.1 for the Texans?
Very highly unlikely.
Do you think that Belichik would refuse 2.1 for Mallett?
What prevented such a transaction.

Why would you want any QB that neither coach want at that "value"?

Playoffs
05-25-2014, 05:32 PM
When was OB with the Patriots last? 2011
What was Mallett doing then? rookie QB
Was he already so outstanding that OB would say "Man, I would have this guy if I ever coach in the NFL". Ask O'Brien and Godsey.
And if he had already proven so, why would Belichik wants to give him up without a king ransom? Because of the CBA, BB has lost control of Mallett.

Mallett's value to the Patriots is always as backup to Tom. It's an important position in that franchise, because Tom gets them into the playoffs every year.

76Texan
05-25-2014, 05:47 PM
Mallett's value to the Patriots is always as backup to Tom. It's an important position in that franchise, because Tom gets them into the playoffs every year.

Thank you.

So the next question is what Mallett worth to other franchises that needed a QB this season.

They drafted Bortles, Manziel, and Bridgewater.
Why didn't they make a play on Mallett?
Is it because Belichik had a higher asking price, knowing that Mallett won't be resigned next year?
I'm quite sure that doesn't make sense.

LikeMike
05-25-2014, 05:54 PM
Mallett's value to the Patriots is always as backup to Tom. It's an important position in that franchise, because Tom gets them into the playoffs every year.

If Belichick believed, that Mallett would be special, a QB that has the ability to take a team to the superbowl - well then he`d probably try to lock him up next offseason, because a backup like that is very valuable and Brady can`t play forever.

If Belichick believed, that Mallett would be a quality starter (think Matt Schaub in his best days), he`d also either try to lock him up next offseason or he`d try to "present" him this preseason and maybe even at some point during the season (in a last game that is meaningless to playoff standings) to up his value. Because Belichick hates to get less value in a trade.

Drafting a QB that high definetly means, that he thinks higher of Garapolo than he thinks of Mallet. And it probably means, he doesn`t see Mallet as a starting QB for a team serious about winning. I am not saying he hates him - he is probably pretty satisfied with him as a backup. And he probably sees the tools needed to succeed in the NFL. But he clearly doesn`t value him high enough, meaning he doesn`t think he can lead a team.

And really, he hasn`t shown much so far. He hasn`t done anything in a NFL game, his college career was good, but there were several questionmarks back then. I´d be fine with us picking him up with a late round pick, simply because of his potential - but we already have 2 guys with some potential in Savage and Keenum, and if neither turns out to be our guy for the future, we probably have a better chance at finding our next QB in the draft...

Vinny
05-25-2014, 05:59 PM
From Rohan Davey to Ryan Mallett, Belichick takes chances on guys. He's quick to launch mediocre guys instead of pay them again as well.

Playoffs
05-25-2014, 06:15 PM
So the next question is...
The talk for us was a trade for a 5th-7th round pick. Somebody decided it wasn't worth it. If I were BB, I would've kept Mallet for this year and collected the compensatory pick next year. Likely playoff team, if Tom gets hurt in the 14th game you want a chance to continue.

Regardless, barring a sudden retirement or career-ending injury by/to Brady, Mallett will leave to get his chance at being a starter and to maximize the value of his 2nd contract that he may have to live off for years to come. Patriots can give him neither.

DocBar
05-25-2014, 06:44 PM
The talk for us was a trade for a 5th-7th round pick. Somebody decided it wasn't worth it. If I were BB, I would've kept Mallet for this year and collected the compensatory pick next year. Likely playoff team, if Tom gets hurt in the 14th game you want a chance to continue.

Regardless, barring a sudden retirement or career-ending injury by/to Brady, Mallett will leave to get his chance at being a starter and to maximize the value of his 2nd contract that he may have to live off for years to come. Patriots can give him neither.Such a glaringly simple answer.
All of the Mallett talk was from our side, and it was just that...talk. Silly talk, too, imo. Why give up a draft pick and have to resign the guy after the season? It makes much more sense to me to let the guy sit behind Brady this year and see what's what next year.

Besides, it's going to be hard enough to split the snaps in an open competition between 3-4 QB's, who are still learning the system, and keep it honest and open competition.

AngryNateFTW
05-25-2014, 06:47 PM
After the 2nd and 3rd round of the draft didn't the media ask Rick Smith about these "trade talks" for Mallett and he answered by saying that they were all fake rumors and we had had absolutely no talks with the Pats?

thunderkyss
05-25-2014, 08:25 PM
Well I was all about Robinson/Matthews but when they went Clowney I let it go.

No point in stressing over stuff I cannot influence, much less control.

Same... well, I didn't let go until they drafted Wade Smith's replacement in the second round. I dd a little dance.

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mcgnjhHCDw1qdf6w8o1_500.gif

thunderkyss
05-25-2014, 08:38 PM
Belichick had to figure Jimmy G. would've gone to somebody in the 3rd and he had to get a QB because of the Mallet situation... his hand was forced.

add to that he probably thought he'd work out a trade with someone & needed a QB he doesn't have three years to develop. Ryan Mallet is plug & play if something were to happen to Terrific. If he traded Mallet, he'd have to start a green rookie.

leebigeztx
05-25-2014, 10:05 PM
So, are they (the Patriots) high on Mallett?
What do you think Belichik ' s reasoning in drafting Garropolo?

Despite our constant disagreement, I respect what you do and try to show. Back to the question, value. I know BB understand value. That doesn't mean he hasn't missed,but the fact mallett is on the roster speaks value. He knows if he develops a qb, a team will give up something higher than the draft position. If a team don't, he'll have a good value and he will draft a yr early. The packers did this with favre. Brunnell,brooks,and hassellback all were developed and traded. Think about falcons drafting vick in 01,then schaub 3 yrs later.. 3 yrs after that,in his last yr, they got 2-2nd rd picks from the texans. It only works if you have a franchise qb. The broncos will be in the same boat next. There were rumors teams were asking about Brock. Qb development is the best way to replenish lost players. A lot of teams are wasting a valuable resource. If you have a good team, a lot of 4tth rd picks don't make the team. Developing a qb with a 4th rd pick is worth it.

dalemurphy
05-26-2014, 04:25 AM
Despite our constant disagreement, I respect what you do and try to show. Back to the question, value. I know BB understand value. That doesn't mean he hasn't missed,but the fact mallett is on the roster speaks value. He knows if he develops a qb, a team will give up something higher than the draft position. If a team don't, he'll have a good value and he will draft a yr early. The packers did this with favre. Brunnell,brooks,and hassellback all were developed and traded. Think about falcons drafting vick in 01,then schaub 3 yrs later.. 3 yrs after that,in his last yr, they got 2-2nd rd picks from the texans. It only works if you have a franchise qb. The broncos will be in the same boat next. There were rumors teams were asking about Brock. Qb development is the best way to replenish lost players. A lot of teams are wasting a valuable resource. If you have a good team, a lot of 4tth rd picks don't make the team. Developing a qb with a 4th rd pick is worth it.

The Pats also know that they can expect a 4th or 5 th round compensatory pick just by letting him play out his contract and become a FA. So, there is little reason to trade him away for a 4th or 5th this year.

ObsiWan
05-26-2014, 09:20 PM
Same... well, I didn't let go until they drafted Wade Smith's replacement in the second round. I dd a little dance.

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mcgnjhHCDw1qdf6w8o1_500.gif
In the spirit of full disclosure, that pick sure helped ease my mind a lot too... that and the prospect of Quessenbury coming back to full health and taking over at RT. And as "insurance" if Quess or Williams or Newton don't step up, we picked up three (four?) UDFA rookies to compete for the OT spot(s).

In short, they've addressed that glaring weakness that was our RT spot.

Can't wait to see how things shake out in camp.

beerlover
05-26-2014, 09:44 PM
Insane draft grades all around, Clowney highest among them & superlative fit on Crennel defense along with Nix should really help relieve Watt's workload. Great pick, he seems like a noble young budding superstar who has been indoctrinated into limelight for years so jump should not be too much for him to handle from maturity standpoint.

badboy
05-26-2014, 10:33 PM
first draft ever that I was so excited about potential improvement to offense and defense.

thunderkyss
05-26-2014, 11:06 PM
Insane draft grades all around, Clowney highest among them & superlative fit on Crennel defense along with Nix should really help relieve Watt's workload. Great pick, he seems like a noble young budding superstar who has been indoctrinated into limelight for years so jump should not be too much for him to handle from maturity standpoint.

Thing I like the most, so far, is that Nix looks like he's got something to prove. He's leaned out quite a bit & he's not messing with twitter. Man's on a mission.

Not at all happy about dropping to the third.

Playoffs
05-26-2014, 11:16 PM
Cian Fahey ‏@Cianaf
There will probably be more dangerous pass-rushing pairs in the NFL next year, but doubt there will be a more versatile pair.

The idea of putting Clowney over the LG, Nix over the C and Watt over the RG in passing situations sounds amazing.

Maaaaan, this is the worst article I could possibly be writing today. It just makes me want to see what the Texans do with JC and JJ.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bokty0QIQAE1koW.png
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bokty0QIQAE1koW.png

Writing about J.J. Watt and Jadeveon Clowney. 8 of FootballOutsiders top 10 defenses had two players with 7.5+ sacks
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BokRqShCcAAHlW1.png
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BokRqShCcAAHlW1.png

thunderkyss
05-26-2014, 11:49 PM
Cian Fahey ‏@Cianaf https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BokRqShCcAAHlW1.png

Don't know if I like that. Seattle is the only team on that list that did not miss the play-offs entirely, or were one & done. Buffalo had four players with more than 7.5 sacks. They had a top 10 defense & the 2nd best ground game in the league, but only won six games in 2010 with their rookie QB.

Malloy
05-27-2014, 02:34 AM
Any news on Clowney signing?

thunderkyss
05-27-2014, 03:53 AM
2014 DROY (http://nfl.si.com/2014/05/15/2014-nfl-defensive-rookie-of-year-jadeveon-clowney/)The past seven Defensive Rookie of the Year winners have all come from Round 1 of the NFL draft. And not since the Jets’ Erik McMillan in 1988 has the player who claimed that award been selected outside of the first two rounds — McMillan was a third-rounder, though his spot at pick 63 would fall in Round 2 under the current 32-team format.

Based on that information alone, the odds to capture the 2014 DROY honor lie heavily with the 18 defensive prospects, led by Jadeveon Clowney, taken in Round 1 of this year’s draft.

A look at the likely candidates …

Malloy
05-27-2014, 09:34 AM
2014 DROY (http://nfl.si.com/2014/05/15/2014-nfl-defensive-rookie-of-year-jadeveon-clowney/)

hehe, let's get the season started before we start crowning players :)

Texecutioner
05-27-2014, 10:01 AM
Don't know if I like that. Seattle is the only team on that list that did not miss the play-offs entirely, or were one & done. Buffalo had four players with more than 7.5 sacks. They had a top 10 defense & the 2nd best ground game in the league, but only won six games in 2010 with their rookie QB.

Well not only that, but I've tried and tried to explain to NFL fans that the NFL rankings of offenses and defenses is a complete joke. Their system is terrible at how they rank them. It doesn't go off of scoring or points allowed. It goes off of a ton of stats put together that tell a ton of small stories and small trends. Strong units score points and don't allow a lot of points despite how many yards they give up or how many times they let a team get into the red zone on them. I've seen some great defenses over the years hardly get their props all because they weren't on some stinking NFL top 5 to top 10 list when they gave up a lot less points to other teams than teams that were ranked ahead of them. THe NFL is about who has the more points at the end of a game. None of the other stats really matter after points.

LikeMike
05-27-2014, 10:49 AM
Don't know if I like that. Seattle is the only team on that list that did not miss the play-offs entirely, or were one & done. Buffalo had four players with more than 7.5 sacks. They had a top 10 defense & the 2nd best ground game in the league, but only won six games in 2010 with their rookie QB.

I don`t know if that means anything. The Seahawks won the superbowl with a dominant pass rush, so did the Giants. Baltimores pass rush wasn`t half bad as well, the Packers had Clay Matthews. You could argue that the last 4 superbowl winners had a dominant pass rush.

And it certainly helps. This is a passing league, so whatever you can do to slow down the QB will help you win games. Of course a dominant pass rush alone won`t do it. You need weapons on defense to slow down the passing game (and to make opposing offenses kick FG in the redzone) and you need weapons on offense to have a great passing games (and score TDs in the redzone).

Now on offense we have weapons that can catch the ball - and we should`ve greatly improved our redzone offense (better powerblocking and a tall, crafty TE). But we are still missing that marquee QB. On defense we definetly seem to have the pass rush done, with some minor questionmarks in the secondary.

Playoffs
05-27-2014, 11:06 AM
Any news on Clowney signing?

Not yet. Shouldn't be a problem.

You can track draft signings here: http://www.spotrac.com/draft-tracker/nfl/

Now, instead of each team having an allotment, each pick has a predetermined amount. In other words, a player and his agent know the exact dollar figures the moment he is drafted. They also know the length; every contract is for four years, with first-round picks subject to a team option for a fifth year, also at predetermined rates. As for salaries, the vast majority of drafted players have four years of non-guaranteed minimum salaries, accompanied by a signing bonus that’s not negotiated by the agent, but predetermined by the CBA.

Bonus amounts have not changed during the four years since the new CBA: Jadeveon Clowney will receive the same bonus in 2014 that Cam Newton received in 2011. According to the NFLPA, the stagnation is due to the fact that the $15,000 per player rise in minimum salaries—the 2014 minimum is $420,000, up from $405,000 last year—has left no room for bonus increases, something the union predicts will finally change next year.

With no opportunity for negotiating, many players are questioning why they need to have an agent to handle rookie contracts...
http://mmqb.si.com/2014/05/22/nfl-rookie-contract-negotiations/

Malloy
05-27-2014, 12:28 PM
Not yet. Shouldn't be a problem.

You can track draft signings here: http://www.spotrac.com/draft-tracker/nfl/


http://mmqb.si.com/2014/05/22/nfl-rookie-contract-negotiations/

Good point :)

Texian
06-01-2014, 11:25 AM
It's Texian ' s job to argue the pick unless it was the guy he wanted. Just like when we drafted Watt he said "Get ready for multiple 4 sack years. "

Good Grief Nate, I was more correct about Watt than you. We just went down this road. Don't you have anything better? Apparently this is all you got. I deal in REALITY, not some FANTASY LAND. It's called being able to think for oneself, CRITICAL and INDEPENDENT THINKING. That's the opposite of of a Kool Aid drinker, Group Thinker or someone who let's everyone else do their thinking for them.

DBCooper
06-01-2014, 11:58 AM
The Titans should hire Texian as GM.........

rmartin65
06-01-2014, 01:30 PM
The Titans should hire Texian as GM.........

Round 1- Bortles

Rounds 2-7- We have Bortles, why the hell do we need more picks?

Honoring Earl 34
06-01-2014, 01:50 PM
Round 1- Bortles

Rounds 2-7- We have Bortles, why the hell do we need more picks?

Would they become the Tennessee Texians ?

AngryNateFTW
06-01-2014, 03:18 PM
Good Grief Nate, I was more correct about Watt than you. We just went down this road. Don't you have anything better? Apparently this is all you got. I deal in REALITY, not some FANTASY LAND. It's called being able to think for oneself, CRITICAL and INDEPENDENT THINKING. That's the opposite of of a Kool Aid drinker, Group Thinker or someone who let's everyone else do their thinking for them.

Not sure how you were more correct. I said he was a beast at Wisconsin and you said he's going to be another Anthony Weaver with multiple 4 sack years. Good Grief is right.

AngryNateFTW
06-01-2014, 03:21 PM
Also...I forget his name but who was that DL man who could jump out of a pool? You almost called him a future HOF and I don't think he ever played a down in the NFL.

Honoring Earl 34
06-01-2014, 03:46 PM
Also...I forget his name but who was that DL man who could jump out of a pool? You almost called him a future HOF and I don't think he ever played a down in the NFL.

The dude from San Jose State went to the Steelers I think .

Jarron Glibert drafted by da Bears .

Released by da Bills last year .

Playoffs
06-01-2014, 09:58 PM
Also...I forget his name but who was that DL man who could jump out of a pool? You almost called him a future HOF and I don't think he ever played a down in the NFL.

I remember that video. First round pool-jumper-out-of talent. http://www.ana.rs/forum/thumbs/img.php?src=http%3A%2F%2Fi289.photobucket.com%2Fal bums%2Fll220%2Fmoxie1970%2Fsmiley%2Fsmiley-pool-party.gif

Texian
06-02-2014, 10:33 AM
Not sure how you were more correct. I said he was a beast at Wisconsin and you said he's going to be another Anthony Weaver with multiple 4 sack years. Good Grief is right.

Since you keep bringing it up I have no other alternative,

This one is for Nate:

STOP the Presses! Get ready for this. Texian is about to shock the board*******

Picking JJ Watt may actually be a stroke of Genius. Yes thats right I said it, Wade may have pulled off a brilliant move. Provided he can move Mario to the Demarcus Ware position and there is no reason to think he can't. Pretty ballsy though making the pick on an assumption and not really knowing. But if it works, BRILLIANT!

http://boards.houstontexans.com/showpost.php?p=391180&postcount=258

On the other hand I can't find where you close to the above endorsing Watt 20 minutes after he was drafted.

Also, guilty as charged. From time to time I do miss on some draft picks. The further back in my history you go the more mistakes you will find. However I am greatly impressed with that you so familiar with so many of my posts and can actually quote from them from so many years ago. I didn't realize you were such a fan. Your reading is GREATLY APPRECIATED!

Trap_Star
06-02-2014, 01:57 PM
Hates on draft prospect all pre-draft.


Jumps on said prospect's bandwagon 20 minutes after selection.


#draftguru #knowsmorethanall #blake<3 #aundraybrucedrankhismilkshake

mussop
06-02-2014, 11:22 PM
The dude from San Jose State went to the Steelers I think .

Jarron Glibert drafted by da Bears .

Released by da Bills last year .

For some reason I had it in my head that that was Sammie Hill that jumped out of the pool.

badboy
06-02-2014, 11:44 PM
just hanging around jumping up and down wearing a frown upside down, just me and my ego. My ego.....my e--g--o

Texian
06-04-2014, 11:56 AM
Really ... I don't see it but I'm not a chicken little . :firehair:

http://www.ourlads.com/nfldepthcharts/depthchart/JAX



Maybe that's because your link needs to be updated. If it was current you find the following FA's that have been signed by the Jags this offseason:

Red Bryant, NT (a much better option than Hix), starter Seattle SB Champ
Chris Clemons, DE, starter Seattle SB Champ
Zane Beadles, OG, starter Denver
Toby Gerhardt, RB, Minn - back up to Peterson, but now back in the ZBS where he was so successful at Stanford
Dekoda Watson, LB, Tampa
Ziggy Hood, DT, Pittsburgh
Tandon Doss, WR, BALT

Traded Blaine Gabbert to SF.

Most people would SEE this as a a very good FA signing class. However when compared to the free agents the Texans have signed this off season, it's friggin incredible. And then there are those who will say the Texans don't have a salary cap problem.

Honoring Earl 34
06-04-2014, 12:33 PM
Maybe that's because your link needs to be updated. If it was current you find the following FA's that have been signed by the Jags this offseason:

Red Bryant, NT (a much better option than Hix), starter Seattle SB Champ
Chris Clemons, DE, starter Seattle SB Champ
Zane Beadles, OG, starter Denver
Toby Gerhardt, RB, Minn - back up to Peterson, but now back in the ZBS where he was so successful at Stanford
Dekoda Watson, LB, Tampa
Ziggy Hood, DT, Pittsburgh
Tandon Doss, WR, BALT

Traded Blaine Gabbert to SF.

Most people would SEE this as a a very good FA signing class. However when compared to the free agents the Texans have signed this off season, it's friggin incredible. And then there are those who will say the Texans don't have a salary cap problem.

You're right ... with Bortles and theses FAs ... JVille goes 4-12 . :fingergun:

ps . Those guys are listed , as second string .

IDEXAN
06-04-2014, 12:55 PM
Maybe that's because your link needs to be updated. If it was current you find the following FA's that have been signed by the Jags this offseason:

Red Bryant, NT (a much better option than Hix), starter Seattle SB Champ
Chris Clemons, DE, starter Seattle SB Champ
Zane Beadles, OG, starter Denver
Toby Gerhardt, RB, Minn - back up to Peterson, but now back in the ZBS where he was so successful at Stanford
Dekoda Watson, LB, Tampa
Ziggy Hood, DT, Pittsburgh
Tandon Doss, WR, BALT

Traded Blaine Gabbert to SF.

Most people would SEE this as a a very good FA signing class. However when compared to the free agents the Texans have signed this off season, it's friggin incredible. And then there are those who will say the Texans don't have a salary cap problem.

That's an excellent FA class for the Jags.

thunderkyss
06-04-2014, 06:49 PM
Most people would SEE this as a a very good FA signing class. However when compared to the free agents the Texans have signed this off season, it's friggin incredible. And then there are those who will say the Texans don't have a salary cap problem.

I know you're not talking about me. But... it's not so much that I think the Texans don't have a salary cap problem, it's that I don't think it's the problem you say it is. The Texans structure their contracts the same way everyone else does.

We've got a lot of money on "bets" that haven't paid off. But I think they were good bets, relatively speaking. Arian Foster, I'd do it again today if I were in that position. Cushing, I have no regrets. Jjo... didn't look too bad at the time. Danieal Manning, I'd have cut him last year. OD, I love OD, good player, wasn't a bad contract, I thought it was a calculated risk worthy of taking a chance.

Duane Brown... I don't think anyone has a problem with DB76's money. Very nice deal for the Texans... Texans friendly if you will.

Matt Schaub, not very popular. However, for a starting QB the money was right. The structure gave Matt two years to prove he was a franchise QB (& he earned the right to prove it) then we could get out after that (now) at a cost savings (dead money sure, but a net gain to cut him).

Andre Johnson. I think this is the biggest problem with our cap. Even as great as Andre is, his number is way out of wack. $16M for the 2014 season. This contract needs to be restructured again, get his number down to $10M, lock him up for another four years, expect him to play another three (two at a starter's level if not #1 level).

We should be right smack dab in the middle of our "Super Bowl Window" but since we missed horribly on our QB, we're on the outside looking in having to turn to Ryan Fitzpatrick for our QB needs.

However, we've got a strong core... that's why I don't think we have a "problem" the way you think. Our cap is tied up in that "core" & we've added some very nice talent. I don't think it's going to happen, but it's not unrealistic to think we can contend for our division.

thunderkyss
06-04-2014, 06:53 PM
That's an excellent FA class for the Jags.

I agree. I don't know how the money worked out, but as long as it isn't too out of whack (it is FA after all), I wouldn't have a problem with the Texans doing something similar.

However, I doubt we could have landed Red Bryant or Chris Clemens (& Houston is pretty close to home for Red). They went to Jville because they are "Gus Bradley" guys.

Honoring Earl 34
06-04-2014, 07:24 PM
I agree. I don't know how the money worked out, but as long as it isn't too out of whack (it is FA after all), I wouldn't have a problem with the Texans doing something similar.

However, I doubt we could have landed Red Bryant or Chris Clemens (& Houston is pretty close to home for Red). They went to Jville because they are "Gus Bradley" guys.

It's been my observation that guys who go from good teams to bad teams and over 30 , are going for that one last payday and don't play well .

mussop
06-04-2014, 07:28 PM
It's been my observation that guys who go from good teams to bad teams and over 30 , are going for that one last payday and don't play well .

Hey keep that stereotyping in The no spin zone buddy! :kitten:

Texian
06-04-2014, 09:17 PM
I know you're not talking about me. But... it's not so much that I think the Texans don't have a salary cap problem, it's that I don't think it's the problem you say it is. The Texans structure their contracts the same way everyone else does.

We've got a lot of money on "bets" that haven't paid off. But I think they were good bets, relatively speaking. Arian Foster, I'd do it again today if I were in that position. Cushing, I have no regrets. Jjo... didn't look too bad at the time. Danieal Manning, I'd have cut him last year. OD, I love OD, good player, wasn't a bad contract, I thought it was a calculated risk worthy of taking a chance.

Duane Brown... I don't think anyone has a problem with DB76's money. Very nice deal for the Texans... Texans friendly if you will.

Matt Schaub, not very popular. However, for a starting QB the money was right. The structure gave Matt two years to prove he was a franchise QB (& he earned the right to prove it) then we could get out after that (now) at a cost savings (dead money sure, but a net gain to cut him).

Andre Johnson. I think this is the biggest problem with our cap. Even as great as Andre is, his number is way out of wack. $16M for the 2014 season. This contract needs to be restructured again, get his number down to $10M, lock him up for another four years, expect him to play another three (two at a starter's level if not #1 level).

We should be right smack dab in the middle of our "Super Bowl Window" but since we missed horribly on our QB, we're on the outside looking in having to turn to Ryan Fitzpatrick for our QB needs.

However, we've got a strong core... that's why I don't think we have a "problem" the way you think. Our cap is tied up in that "core" & we've added some very nice talent. I don't think it's going to happen, but it's not unrealistic to think we can contend for our division.

Your core is 2-14. You want to blame Andre for his contract being out of whack when it's the the Texans who are DIRECTLY responsible for AJ's out of whack contract. It was the Texans who for the last 3 years and now looks like 4, went to AJ and asked him to renegotiate his contract. Why? So they could finagle enough salary cap room to pay a full 53 man roster. And that is a serious salary cap PROBLEM whether you choose to acknowledge it or not. Not mention the Texans haven't had enough salary cap space to sign a middle of the road free agent much less. But how can the Texans sign a middle of road free agent when the don't have enough money to fill out a 53 man roster?

And what did the Texans have to do in order to sign AF to an $8 million a year contract when they could've tendered him at $2 mil instead?

Honoring Earl 34
06-04-2014, 09:19 PM
Hey keep that stereotyping in The no spin zone buddy! :kitten:

Green & Reed is not a law firm .

dalemurphy
06-04-2014, 10:03 PM
Maybe that's because your link needs to be updated. If it was current you find the following FA's that have been signed by the Jags this offseason:

Red Bryant, NT (a much better option than Hix), starter Seattle SB Champ
Chris Clemons, DE, starter Seattle SB Champ
Zane Beadles, OG, starter Denver
Toby Gerhardt, RB, Minn - back up to Peterson, but now back in the ZBS where he was so successful at Stanford
Dekoda Watson, LB, Tampa
Ziggy Hood, DT, Pittsburgh
Tandon Doss, WR, BALT

Traded Blaine Gabbert to SF.

Most people would SEE this as a a very good FA signing class. However when compared to the free agents the Texans have signed this off season, it's friggin incredible. And then there are those who will say the Texans don't have a salary cap problem.

Texans will have 10 draft picks next season, because they will add 3 more compensatory picks. So, while they sign fringe free agents for $1 million per year, they will add an additional 3 compensatory picks at well under $1 mill per year, owning those players for 4 years...

I'm not sure what is so exciting about Clemons and Red Bryant. They will gobble up cap space, help Jacksonville to 6 or 7 wins and be on the back side of their careers before Jacksonville has the pieces in place to be competitive.

Do you really want to compare the management of talent between these two organizations? Over the past 6 years, the Texans have only had one losing season... The team just had a great draft (to be determined), is well under the cap and is a very young team with the best defensive player in the NFL.

thunderkyss
06-05-2014, 12:55 AM
Your core is 2-14. You want to blame Andre for his contract being out of whack when it's the the Texans who are DIRECTLY responsible for AJ's out of whack contract. It was the Texans who for the last 3 years and now looks like 4, went to AJ and asked him to renegotiate his contract. Why? So they could finagle enough salary cap room to pay a full 53 man roster. And that is a serious salary cap PROBLEM whether you choose to acknowledge it or not. Not mention the Texans haven't had enough salary cap space to sign a middle of the road free agent much less. But how can the Texans sign a middle of road free agent when the don't have enough money to fill out a 53 man roster?

And what did the Texans have to do in order to sign AF to an $8 million a year contract when they could've tendered him at $2 mil instead?

Yes, the core went 2-14 last season. Probably less than 9 wins in 2014. Doesn't change anything. You've either got a Porsche in your garage, or $100,000 under your mattress. We threw a rod on our ride, that's all. If we can get that fixed, we're rolling again, if we can get it fixed soon. A couple of years from now, a thrown rod may be the least of our problems.

Yeah, Seattle's got that Hemi powered Charger across the finish line before we could get our Porsche out the driveway & it cost them a lot less. But they pay their players same as we do, structure their contracts same as we do. They hit everything just right. We missed a few times.

sandman
06-05-2014, 03:34 AM
Your core is 2-14.

Honest question: Did you consider the core of the team 12-4 after the 2012 season?

Carr Bombed
06-05-2014, 07:31 AM
Is this thread even about Jadeveon Clowney?

thunderkyss
06-05-2014, 08:36 AM
Is this thread even about Jadeveon Clowney?


Who?

DBCooper
06-05-2014, 09:09 AM
Who?

Never heard of him.

Texian
06-05-2014, 09:20 AM
Do you really want to compare the management of talent between these two organizations?

Since you asked, let's compare.

Shahid Khan, Owner, bought Jags 1/4/12, completely gutted and cleaned house in 2013, firing GM and head coach. Hired a new President in 2012, GM and Head Coach in 2013. Cleaned up Salary Cap and made substantial improvements that would allow Jags to get much better.

Mark Lamping, President, hired 2/13/12, former President of St. Louis Cardinals and CEO of New Meadowlands Stadium Company. Has a World Series and Super Bowl Ring.

David Caldwell, GM, hired 1/8/13, a veteran of 17 years in NFL front offices.

Gus Bradley, Head Coach, hired 1/17/13

So after a complete overhaul and cleaning out of bad contracts and streamlining the salary cap, yes, Shahid Khan has his team well positioned to make great strides and improvements. Bob McNair should take notes. Yes I think the Texans would be much better off with Jags front office, management and Head Coach.

I say this not because I am a Jags fan. I say this not because I am hating on the Texans. I say this because I see it as the truth.

As a result of the Jags complete house cleaning, do not be surprised if the Jags win more than 8 games this year with two of those wins, once again, coming against the Texans.

In regards to your comments, " because they will add 3 more compensatory picks." I am not so sure that this will be the case. The Texans have signed 7 free agents in this off season. Those signings will off set any free agents lost. 3 comp picks may be a little aggressive and a lot of wishing and hoping.

Texian
06-05-2014, 09:25 AM
Is this thread even about Jadeveon Clowney?

The only reason the Texans drafted Jadeveon Clowney is because they were absolutely scared to death of David Carr 2.0. You simply can't win playing with a scared mentality.

Better?

Texian
06-05-2014, 09:32 AM
Honest question: Did you consider the core of the team 12-4 after the 2012 season?

Yes I did. The 2011 Texans was the best team. This is also the year they began setting the stage for salary cap hell and the dismantling of their best team. Look at the players they cut to sign Foster. Look at the good players that have left in free agency in 2012, 2013 and 2014 that were never replaced as result of being in salary cap hell. As for the 12-4 2012 team I also took in to account that Peyton Manning was no longer the Colts QB and Jeff Fisher was no longer the Titans HC. The Texans have been getting worse since 2011. 2013 season was a result of the culmination of bad seeds planted in 2011 and 2012. IMHO 2014 could be equally as bad as a result of the bad seeds planted in 2011, 2012 and 2013.

Honoring Earl 34
06-05-2014, 10:11 AM
Since you asked, let's compare.

Shahid Khan, Owner, bought Jags 1/4/12, completely gutted and cleaned house in 2013, firing GM and head coach. Hired a new President in 2012, GM and Head Coach in 2013. Cleaned up Salary Cap and made substantial improvements that would allow Jags to get much better.

Mark Lamping, President, hired 2/13/12, former President of St. Louis Cardinals and CEO of New Meadowlands Stadium Company. Has a World Series and Super Bowl Ring.

David Caldwell, GM, hired 1/8/13, a veteran of 17 years in NFL front offices.

Gus Bradley, Head Coach, hired 1/17/13

So after a complete overhaul and cleaning out of bad contracts and streamlining the salary cap, yes, Shahid Khan has his team well positioned to make great strides and improvements. Bob McNair should take notes. Yes I think the Texans would be much better off with Jags front office, management and Head Coach.

I say this not because I am a Jags fan. I say this not because I am hating on the Texans. I say this because I see it as the truth.

As a result of the Jags complete house cleaning, do not be surprised if the Jags win more than 8 games this year with two of those wins, once again, coming against the Texans.

In regards to your comments, " because they will add 3 more compensatory picks." I am not so sure that this will be the case. The Texans have signed 7 free agents in this off season. Those signings will off set any free agents lost. 3 comp picks may be a little aggressive and a lot of wishing and hoping.

Will they be the LA Jaguars with this ownership group ?

Clowney was easily the best prospect so they picked him because of that .

mussop
06-05-2014, 10:22 AM
The only reason the Texans drafted Jadeveon Clowney is because they were absolutely scared to death of David Carr 2.0. You simply can't win playing with a scared mentality.

Better?

Ridiculous!!!!!

Texian
06-05-2014, 10:29 AM
Ridiculous!!!!!

Denial!!!!!!!!

steelbtexan
06-05-2014, 10:31 AM
The only reason the Texans drafted Jadeveon Clowney is because they were absolutely scared to death of David Carr 2.0. You simply can't win playing with a scared mentality.

Better?

Or maybe they thought pairing Clowney with Watt would allow the team to have a chance at having an elite defense to deal with Luck over the next decade.

Or maybe because of O'Briens ties with O'Leary he was told that Bortles wasn't worthy of 1-1 and the 2014 QB class stunk so the Texans org decided to finally do the right thing and draft BPA.

We will never know the answers, but I'm very excited about the Texans future and the fact that BOB seems to be an upgrade at HCand Smith has finally gotten the art of cleaning up the salary cap mess that HE created cleaned up. If the Texans can find a QB (Savage or a 2015 draft pick) then the future will be great. IMHO

PapaL
06-05-2014, 10:36 AM
The only reason the Texans drafted Jadeveon Clowney is because they were absolutely scared to death of David Carr 2.0. You simply can't win playing with a scared mentality.

Better?

I know you're hurt they didn't take your guy but this is an absurd statement. Did STL skip on Bortles because they're scared he'd be Sam Bradford 2.0? Clowney and Robinson were better options than a QB that is not ready to start.

xtruroyaltyx
06-05-2014, 10:47 AM
The only reason the Texans drafted Jadeveon Clowney is because they were absolutely scared to death of David Carr 2.0. You simply can't win playing with a scared mentality.

Better?

Pretty sure they just thought Clowney was the better player.

Doesn't make them right, but by the same token, you aren't going to prove yourself to be right over the next few weeks by posting a bunch of stuff on the message board either.

Probably should just let it play out before we make declarations on who screwed up.

ObsiWan
06-05-2014, 11:39 AM
Since you asked, let's compare.

Shahid Khan, Owner, bought Jags 1/4/12, completely gutted and cleaned house in 2013, firing GM and head coach. Hired a new President in 2012, GM and Head Coach in 2013. Cleaned up Salary Cap and made substantial improvements that would allow Jags to get much better.

Mark Lamping, President, hired 2/13/12, former President of St. Louis Cardinals and CEO of New Meadowlands Stadium Company. Has a World Series and Super Bowl Ring.

David Caldwell, GM, hired 1/8/13, a veteran of 17 years in NFL front offices.

Gus Bradley, Head Coach, hired 1/17/13

So after a complete overhaul and cleaning out of bad contracts and streamlining the salary cap, yes, Shahid Khan has his team well positioned to make great strides and improvements. Bob McNair should take notes. Yes I think the Texans would be much better off with Jags front office, management and Head Coach.

I say this not because I am a Jags fan. I say this not because I am hating on the Texans. I say this because I see it as the truth.

As a result of the Jags complete house cleaning, do not be surprised if the Jags win more than 8 games this year with two of those wins, once again, coming against the Texans.

In regards to your comments, " because they will add 3 more compensatory picks." I am not so sure that this will be the case. The Texans have signed 7 free agents in this off season. Those signings will off set any free agents lost. 3 comp picks may be a little aggressive and a lot of wishing and hoping.

In the two seasons since this "overhaul" was made, the Jags have won all of six games out of 32.

While we imploded - due to various factors all hitting at once - last season, we went to the playoffs the year before. And I wouldn't be surprised for us to finish higher in the standings than the Jags this coming year.

I don't see your point here in using them as a shining example of success.

Texian
06-05-2014, 11:40 AM
Or maybe because of O'Briens ties with O'Leary he was told that Bortles wasn't worthy of 1-1 and the 2014 QB class stunk so the Texans org decided to finally do the right thing and draft BPA.

Texans had two cards filled out, one with Clowney's name on it the other with Bortles name so that kind of disproves your above theory.

Pretty sure they just thought Clowney was the better player.

Pretty sure Bob McNair was scared to death of the possibility of living through another 5 years of David Carr and sided with his hometown guy Clowney.

Texian
06-05-2014, 11:54 AM
In the two seasons since this "overhaul" was made, the Jags have won all of six games out of 32.

While we imploded - due to various factors all hitting at once - last season, we went to the playoffs the year before. And I wouldn't be surprised for us to finish higher in the standings than the Jags this coming year.

I don't see your point here in using them as a shining example of success.

The new GM and HC were hired at the beginning of 2013 season (only 1 year ago). The new President was hired two years ago, not long after Shad bought the team.

In the one year that Caldwell and Gus have been at the helm, the Jags won 4 games in 2013, that's a 100% improvement over 2012 and the Jags finished the 2013 season winning 4 of their last 8 games.

The point being I was asked, "Do you really want to compare the management of talent between these two organizations?" SO I politely responded and answered the question.

xtruroyaltyx
06-05-2014, 12:21 PM
Pretty sure Bob McNair was scared to death of the possibility of living through another 5 years of David Carr and sided with his hometown guy Clowney.


If he thought that Bortles was going to be David Carr again, then that means he thought Clowney was better.

Texans aren't passing on Andrew Luck because they think he's going to be David Carr.

Texian
06-05-2014, 12:25 PM
But they pay their players same as we do, structure their contracts same as we do.

Not necessarily. This kind of thinking is conveniently dismissing the truth. The fact is beginning in 2011 the Texans had a very bad habit of back loading contracts. This is NOT a common practice and usually done more out of deperation. That is part of the BIG problem and a HUGE contributing factor why the Texans have little or no salary cap space at the beginning of each year, even after high salaried players (Antonio Smith $9 million) drop off the books. Many of the contracts negotiated 3-4 years ago, those salaries have escalated so severely, they eat up most of the salaries that are lost in free agency. Compound that with a constant and and continued practice of renegotiating contracts every year and it's death spiral financing into salary cap hell each and every year.

Carr Bombed
06-05-2014, 12:39 PM
The only reason the Texans drafted Jadeveon Clowney is because they were absolutely scared to death of David Carr 2.0. You simply can't win playing with a scared mentality.

Better?

Orrr.. They just actually thought Clowney was the best player, but your hyperbole theory is much more dramatic.

Double Barrel
06-05-2014, 12:43 PM
Texans had two cards filled out, one with Clowney's name on it the other with Bortles name so that kind of disproves your above theory.

You've got to provide something legit to back it up or your statement comes across as completely unsubstantiated horse crap.

No offense, but making statements like the above and "the only reason..." presents yourself as either someone with insider knowledge or someone that just pulls rhetoric out of his butt to support a per-conceived narrative. If you cannot prove the former, then it is safe for everyone to assume the latter.

Texian
06-05-2014, 12:59 PM
You've got to provide something legit to back it up or your statement comes across as completely unsubstantiated horse crap.

No offense, but making statements like the above and "the only reason..." presents yourself as either someone with insider knowledge or someone that just pulls rhetoric out of his butt to support a per-conceived narrative. If you cannot prove the former, then it is safe for everyone to assume the latter.

Substantiated. Your apology has been accepted in advance. I highly suspect that this will not meet with your satisfaction. I am not sure that you would find anything agreeable.

http://www.draftinsider.net/blog/?p=9760

http://www.bigcatcountry.com/2014/5/21/5737952/blake-bortles-houston-texans-nfl-draft-2014

The butt is rhetoric free....

Double Barrel
06-05-2014, 01:10 PM
Substantiated. Your apology has been accepted in advance. I highly suspect that this will not meet with your satisfaction. I am not sure that you would find anything agreeable.

http://www.draftinsider.net/blog/?p=9760

http://www.bigcatcountry.com/2014/5/21/5737952/blake-bortles-houston-texans-nfl-draft-2014

The butt is rhetoric free....

I'm not apologizing for anything. This blog is just opinions, man.

Although, you did give up the original source of takes that you seem to parrot, and certainly supports the idea that you only agree with perspectives that agree with your agenda.

In the end Clowney was the smart pick and was made in large part based on fear;

http://www.draftinsider.net/blog/?p=9760

Can you not comprehend my simple request?

".... provide something legit to back it up..."

That you consider a blog with "I’m told" in it as legit says all I need to know.

And your second link just copied and pasted the first. C'mon, man, I'm not trying to criticize or play games, but just asking for something substantial and verified instead of opinions.

Anyone can make stuff up with "I'm told" in a blog, but that doesn't make it truth.

"How many legs does a dog have if you call the tail a leg? Four. Calling a tail a leg doesn't make it a leg."
~ Abraham Lincoln

And before you starting defending the honor of Tony Pauline, just remember it's all his opinions:

Tony Pauline, SI.com: "The Seahawks made another questionable decision, tabbing Wilson in the third frame. Wilson is destined to sit behind newly-signed Matt Flynn and will struggle to see the field at any point over the next three years."

Source (http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcwest/post/_/id/87588/wrong-on-wilson-hey-i-liked-ryan-leaf)

Playoffs
06-05-2014, 01:37 PM
Q: Now obviously with with the first pick in the draft, how torn were you between what side of the ball to go on? Was it really ever really leaning the the other way(offense)?

Bill O'Brien: It never really was...

It was more about what was best for our team, and there was a guy out there in JD Clowney we felt was an explosive player, a guy that fit our system well and so...

We knew throughout the last 3 or 4 weeks that we were going to pick him at #1 pick.

Obviously people call and you listen to trade offers because you alaways want to do what's best for the organization, but at the end of the day it was JD and he's come in here and worked extremely hard so far and we've enjoyed coaching him.
http://pittsburgh.cbslocal.com/2014/05/30/bill-obrien-discusses-reasons-for-leaving-psu-if-tom-savage-could-start-for-texans/

Honoring Earl 34
06-05-2014, 02:15 PM
Substantiated. Your apology has been accepted in advance. I highly suspect that this will not meet with your satisfaction. I am not sure that you would find anything agreeable.

http://www.draftinsider.net/blog/?p=9760

http://www.bigcatcountry.com/2014/5/21/5737952/blake-bortles-houston-texans-nfl-draft-2014

The butt is rhetoric free....

My sources say that they had two cards . One had Clowney and the other was blank and they were trade trolling . That card was to make the other GMs think their player was on it .


Wait .... this just in ... I have a source who says that was their order from IHOP .

HOU-TEX
06-05-2014, 02:18 PM
My sources say that anyone using Tony Pauline as a source will remain source less :thinking:

xtruroyaltyx
06-05-2014, 02:37 PM
I don't even get the point that is trying to be made about Bortles being on this other card.

Lets say it was Bortles...LOL so what?

They didn't pick him, so they didn't think he was a better pick than Clowney was.

Lets say it was Bortles. At best, he was their second choice.

Saying that the Texans were scared to pick him is just adding another chapter to the narrative you're writing.

False Start
06-05-2014, 02:41 PM
My sources say that anyone using Tony Pauline as a source will remain source less :thinking:

:littlelol:

Texian
06-05-2014, 02:43 PM
I'm not apologizing for anything. This blog is just opinions, man.

Although, you did give up the original source of takes that you seem to parrot, and certainly supports the idea that you only agree with perspectives that agree with your agenda.



Can you not comprehend my simple request?

".... provide something legit to back it up..."

That you consider a blog with "I’m told" in it as legit says all I need to know.

And your second link just copied and pasted the first. C'mon, man, I'm not trying to criticize or play games, but just asking for something substantial and verified instead of opinions.

Anyone can make stuff up with "I'm told" in a blog, but that doesn't make it truth.

"How many legs does a dog have if you call the tail a leg? Four. Calling a tail a leg doesn't make it a leg."
~ Abraham Lincoln

And before you starting defending the honor of Tony Pauline, just remember it's all his opinions:

My sources say that they had two cards . One had Clowney and the other was blank and they were trade trolling . That card was to make the other GMs think their player was on it .


Wait .... this just in ... I have a source that says that was their order from IHOP .

My sources say that anyone using Tony Pauline as a source will remain source less :thinking:

But in the end McNair went with the alumni pick even if he only had 3 sacks in his last season and paltry 24 sacks in 3 years. Never mind the fact that Clowney has fully matured much like Amobi Okoye and unlikely will get any bigger, faster or stronger. Never mind the fact that Clowney's football IQ may be on the low end and as a result the reason he's a 1 trick pony who can only rush the passer from RDE with his hand in dirt. And the reason Spurrier never moved Clowney around, lining up in different positions or standing up because he couldn't grasp the playbook. Never mind the fact that once teams had played Clowney they pretty much had him figured out and knew how to neutralize him. McNair had to overlook all of this because he couldn't stomach the fact of making the same mistake he had made with David Carr. Not just the one mistake of drafting Carr but then giving Carr $10 million just to stick around for another year before Bob realized he was in denial and had to let Carr go. Bob just couldn't pull the trigger on that one again.

AngryNateFTW
06-05-2014, 02:44 PM
Wasn't there a card found under the Texans table that said "Mack no matter what?"

That's what I heard from Ian Rapaport on twitter during the day leading up to the draft that night. I believe he posted a picture too.

So...3 cards....sounds like a bunch of...

http://i2.ytimg.com/vi/mxEoVqiyGIA/hqdefault.jpg

IDEXAN
06-05-2014, 02:50 PM
But in the end McNair went with the alumni pick even if he only had 3 sacks in his last season and paltry 24 sacks in 3 years. Never mind the fact that Clowney has fully matured much like Amobi Okoye and unlikely will get any bigger, faster or stronger. Never mind the fact that Clowney's football IQ may be on the low end and as a result the reason he's a 1 trick pony who can only rush the passer from RDE with his hand in dirt. And the reason Spurrier never moved Clowney around, lining up in different positions or standing up because he couldn't grasp the playbook. Never mind the fact that once teams had played Clowney they pretty much had him figured out and knew how to neutralize him. McNair had to overlook all of this because he couldn't stomach the fact of making the same mistake he had made with David Carr. Not just the one mistake of drafting Carr but then giving Carr $10 million just to stick around for another year before Bob realized he was in denial and had to let Carr go. Bob just couldn't pull the trigger on that one again.
Earth to Texian: the Houston Texans drafted JD Clowney, so what's the point on ragging on the rookie when he's a member of your team now ? Why not wait until atleast preseason so we all can get a look at him and see what he looks like, then start bashing him again I guess if you aren't happy with his
performance. But what's the point doing it right now during OTAs ?

Honoring Earl 34
06-05-2014, 02:58 PM
But in the end McNair went with the alumni pick even if he only had 3 sacks in his last season and paltry 24 sacks in 3 years. Never mind the fact that Clowney has fully matured much like Amobi Okoye and unlikely will get any bigger, faster or stronger. Never mind the fact that Clowney's football IQ may be on the low end and as a result the reason he's a 1 trick pony who can only rush the passer from RDE with his hand in dirt. And the reason Spurrier never moved Clowney around, lining up in different positions or standing up because he couldn't grasp the playbook. Never mind the fact that once teams had played Clowney they pretty much had him figured out and knew how to neutralize him. McNair had to overlook all of this because he couldn't stomach the fact of making the same mistake he had made with David Carr. Not just the one mistake of drafting Carr but then giving Carr $10 million just to stick around for another year before Bob realized he was in denial and had to let Carr go. Bob just couldn't pull the trigger on that one again.

Actually Carr was a better prospect than Bortles , JF , or Bridgewater . Having said that , JD was ranked much higher than any QB . The 2nd rated player was nabbed by the Bills in a trade up ( passed by Jags ) . The Jags then handed Mack to the Raiders with a nice silver bow on him .

Trap_Star
06-05-2014, 03:01 PM
So essentially McNair took a shity prospect because he was scared of taking an even shittier one? Gotcha.

Texian
06-05-2014, 03:03 PM
Earth to Texian: the Houston Texans drafted JD Clowney, so what's the point on ragging on the rookie when he's a member of your team now ? Why not wait until atleast preseason so we all can get a look at him and see what he looks like, then start bashing him again I guess if you aren't happy with his
performance. But what's the point doing it right now during OTAs ?

Because it is the very slow and very boring off season and as you can see, it doesn't take very much to get a rise out of the Whiffenpoofs. OK, everyone back to work, play time is over.

badboy
06-05-2014, 03:16 PM
I am going to have to insist that all these posts go into my thread about "sources". I get a kick back on all posts going into my threads so please source where I can get kicked.

Double Barrel
06-05-2014, 05:07 PM
http://pittsburgh.cbslocal.com/2014/05/30/bill-obrien-discusses-reasons-for-leaving-psu-if-tom-savage-could-start-for-texans/

Head coach whatever. What does he know? Tony Pauline said otherwise, and he was "told".

My sources say that they had two cards . One had Clowney and the other was blank and they were trade trolling . That card was to make the other GMs think their player was on it .


Wait .... this just in ... I have a source who says that was their order from IHOP .

See, I think you're completely wrong. My sources said it was an order from Denny's.

My sources say that anyone using Tony Pauline as a source will remain source less :thinking:

yep, and we can play dueling sources. I can cite Mike Florio that it was a choice between Clowney and Mack. At least Florio works for the NFL.

But in the end, these guys can say whatever they want to say because they never have to prove it.

I'm not even trying to argue with Texian. I was just curious if the two card thing was actually verified information.

Bob just couldn't pull the trigger on that one again.

LMAO!!!! :spit:

Even funnier that you seem to believe that McNair is making personnel decisions, much less making personnel decisions based on fear, alumni considerations, and a first round pick when they were an expansion franchise.

I look forward to the link to Tony Pauline's blog that proves it all "true".

xtruroyaltyx
06-05-2014, 05:24 PM
Because it is the very slow and very boring off season and as you can see, it doesn't take very much to get a rise out of the Whiffenpoofs. OK, everyone back to work, play time is over.


So you are admitting to trying to troll?

Ole Miss Texan
06-05-2014, 06:03 PM
Texian - Bortles clearly was your guy and your pick from the beginning. Even before all the talk of him being the 1st QB taken and top 5-10 consideration. Kudos on your eye in identifying him and I respect your opinion that he was your #1 player and should have been the pick. I don't know for certain but I have a feeling he was O'Brien's number 1 QB as well.

Where we differ is that you think there's some ulterior motive or play going on within the Texans organization. Not choosing him because they were scared, or because McNair was also an SC guy, or they prefer a guy that had 3 sacks vs a QB that had some 4th quarter comebacks...

The bottom line and I can't believe this is really being discussed, is that the Texans thought Clowney was the best player in the entire draft and they thought he was better than any trade offer that was discussed for the #1 pick. You can disagree with that certainly but it is what it is. They did not take him because they were conforming to the mock drafts, they did not take him bc they we're scare of a Carr 2.0... They took him because they thought he was that good.

Smith's comments a day or two before the draft indicated they had settled on a player at #1 if they were to stay there, but they see certainly looking at trade possibilities. That told me it was Clowney. If Bortles was THAT highly rated by them, if they thought he was as good as you say, they wouldn't even entertain trading down and missing on a sure franchise QB. The fact is Clowney was their #1 and are really excited about adding him to our team.

As to the 2 cards filled out... My opinion is they were making one last attempt for a team to get desperate and trade up. They were not on the fence during draft night. They new it was Clowney.

I suggest we all quit trying to add drama to this and tell it like it really is. Whether it was the right pick or not, Clowney was hands down the best player in the draft in the Texans eyes and they are really really happy to have him.

dalemurphy
06-05-2014, 06:18 PM
Since you asked, let's compare.

Shahid Khan, Owner, bought Jags 1/4/12, completely gutted and cleaned house in 2013, firing GM and head coach. Hired a new President in 2012, GM and Head Coach in 2013. Cleaned up Salary Cap and made substantial improvements that would allow Jags to get much better.

Mark Lamping, President, hired 2/13/12, former President of St. Louis Cardinals and CEO of New Meadowlands Stadium Company. Has a World Series and Super Bowl Ring.

David Caldwell, GM, hired 1/8/13, a veteran of 17 years in NFL front offices.

Gus Bradley, Head Coach, hired 1/17/13

So after a complete overhaul and cleaning out of bad contracts and streamlining the salary cap, yes, Shahid Khan has his team well positioned to make great strides and improvements. Bob McNair should take notes. Yes I think the Texans would be much better off with Jags front office, management and Head Coach.

I say this not because I am a Jags fan. I say this not because I am hating on the Texans. I say this because I see it as the truth.

As a result of the Jags complete house cleaning, do not be surprised if the Jags win more than 8 games this year with two of those wins, once again, coming against the Texans.

In regards to your comments, " because they will add 3 more compensatory picks." I am not so sure that this will be the case. The Texans have signed 7 free agents in this off season. Those signings will off set any free agents lost. 3 comp picks may be a little aggressive and a lot of wishing and hoping.

So, after relentlessly criticizing the Texans based on their performance last year and their failure to win championships in the years prior, you actually have the nerve to congratulate the laughing stock of the NFL, ignoring their recent past.

Regarding compensatory draft picks. Aside from your determination to discredit every front office move the organization makes, you may also be blinded by a misunderstanding of the rules... Any signing after June 1st, or any signing below the benchmark of (roughly)$850,00 a year, does not get counted in the compensatory equation. Therefore:

Qualifying losses:
E. Mitchell
Antonio Smith
Ben Tate
Joe Mays
Sharpton
(maybe A.Gardner)

qualifying additions:
Fitzgerald
Clemons

That should net us 3 picks... with a good shot at one in each of the 4th and 5th rounds.

FA signings that don't qualify:
K. Lewis
Powe
A. Brown
R. Matthews

Ole Miss Texan
06-05-2014, 06:35 PM
So, after relentlessly criticizing the Texans based on their performance last year and their failure to win championships in the years prior, you actually have the nerve to congratulate the laughing stock of the NFL, ignoring their recent past.

Regarding compensatory draft picks. Aside from your determination to discredit every front office move the organization makes, you may also be blinded by a misunderstanding of the rules... Any signing after June 1st, or any signing below the benchmark of (roughly)$850,00 a year, does not get counted in the compensatory equation. Therefore:

Qualifying losses:
E. Mitchell
Antonio Smith
Ben Tate
Joe Mays
Sharpton
(maybe A.Gardner)

qualifying additions:
Fitzgerald
Clemons

That should net us 3 picks... with a good shot at one in each of the 4th and 5th rounds.

FA signings that don't qualify:
K. Lewis
Powe
A. Brown
R. Matthews
Great post. Similar reason why NE is unlikely to trade Mallet in my opinion or why there asking price is likely so high.

As for all the pro-jags and anti-texans rhetoric I find it pretty humorous and an attempt to further bash the Texans in regards to Bortles. That's all.

McNair is a business savvy guy and hired Casserly to run GM, we despise him now but he had great experience with the Redskins organization, the league, was well thought of. Capers had early success as HC of the expansion team Panthers but his last 2 years after NFC championship were rough. I can see the support for a defensive coach that had gone through an expansion team already, a well regarded GM with Super Bowls on the resume... Lots of stuff looks good on paper, can't really judge till down the road.

drs23
06-05-2014, 06:57 PM
so you are admitting to being a troll?

fify

Texian
06-05-2014, 07:28 PM
So you are admitting to trying to troll?

Nope, I stand by everything I have posted but I'm sorry you don't have a sense of humor.

Texian
06-05-2014, 07:36 PM
Even funnier that you seem to believe that McNair is making personnel decisions, much less making personnel decisions based on fear, alumni considerations, and a first round pick when they were an expansion franchise.

I guess you missed the part where Bob sent his plane to get Ed Reed and were absent when Bob announced that Case Keenum was the starting QB. Bob is much more involved than you know or want to admit. Florio works for NBC.

PHILLYTEXANFAN
06-05-2014, 08:43 PM
Nope, I stand by everything I have posted but I'm sorry you don't have a sense of humor.

Are you trolling people again young man?!!! Lol, c'mon Texian you should know the game nobody wants to hear someone else's view and opinion on a public message board. Lmao. :koolaid:

xtruroyaltyx
06-05-2014, 08:45 PM
Nope, I stand by everything I have posted but I'm sorry you don't have a sense of humor.

I have a sense of humor. I just haven't seen anything funny. I thought you were trying to make legit points.

thunderkyss
06-05-2014, 08:51 PM
Not necessarily. This kind of thinking is conveniently dismissing the truth. The fact is beginning in 2011 the Texans had a very bad habit of back loading contracts. This is NOT a common practice and usually done more out of deperation.

That is common practice. The Cap number is low for the first couple of years & escalates on the back end, when the team will most likely cut said player. If they decide said player is worth keeping, they work out an extension that replaces those back ended years.

The Texans though have made a bad habit (imo) of paying out those backended years. Mario should have been renegotiated or released/traded, Antonio should have been renegotiated or released/traded, Wade Smith should have been released.

drs23
06-05-2014, 09:37 PM
I have a sense of humor. I just haven't seen anything funny. I thought you were trying to make legit points.

Thank you. I thought I was the only one that missed the humor part.

Honoring Earl 34
06-06-2014, 11:14 AM
I guess you missed the part where Bob sent his plane to get Ed Reed and were absent when Bob announced that Case Keenum was the starting QB. Bob is much more involved than you know or want to admit. Florio works for NBC.

I would say that was more of Bob getting tired of the status quo more than he was going Jerrah .

bhsman
06-06-2014, 12:15 PM
Does anyone else find it funny that he pooh-pooh'd Clowney having 'only' 24 sacks? If he had stayed for his senior year, he might have matched DeMarcus Ware's 4-year total of 27.5. :kitten:

mussop
06-06-2014, 12:16 PM
"Jadeveon Clowney news has been quiet in terms of other 1st round rookies from his draft class but his talent and football I.Q. are on display every day."

Who was saying he has low football IQ??:swatter:

b0ng
06-06-2014, 12:25 PM
Nope, I stand by everything I have posted but I'm sorry you don't have a sense of humor.

I like he part where when you gt called out for posting stupid stuff you try to hand wave it away as "humor" or trying to "get a rise out of people". I especially like how Playoffs destroyed your 2 card theory and you have yet to respond to it. That was the only humorous part of this whole exchange.

Honoring Earl 34
06-06-2014, 12:26 PM
"Jadeveon Clowney news has been quiet in terms of other 1st round rookies from his draft class but his talent and football I.Q. are on display every day."

Who was saying he has low football IQ??:swatter:

Shake Shortles agent . :gamer:

DBCooper
06-06-2014, 12:37 PM
Shake Shortles agent . :gamer:

Shake Shortles!

I like that!

Sounds like what he will be doing when JJ and JD get after him!

Errant Hothy
06-06-2014, 01:11 PM
McClain is reporting on twitter that Clowney has agreed to terms.

bhsman
06-06-2014, 01:28 PM
I like he part where when you gt called out for posting stupid stuff you try to hand wave it away as "humor" or trying to "get a rise out of people". I especially like how Playoffs destroyed your 2 card theory and you have yet to respond to it. That was the only humorous part of this whole exchange.

Welcome to what I said pages ago: Texian just wants to vomit his displeasure about Clowney after-the-fact and conveniently fails to respond to any direct argument that discredits his. Whether he intends to act as one or not, he's just trolling the thread and as such shouldn't be responded to as long as that's all he wants to do.

As for Clowney's deal, he gets $22 mil guaranteed it looks like.

PapaL
06-06-2014, 02:09 PM
Clowney will get $22.272 million guaranteed, including a $14.518 million signing bonus, according to the Houston Chronicle

HOU-TEX
06-06-2014, 02:22 PM
Welp, now we'll see if he has the heart that a lot of heads think he lacks.

BTW, I haven't seen a 5th year option reported anywhere. Anyone?

*Edit* Never mind, just saw Playoff's post in the other thread

Double Barrel
06-06-2014, 02:23 PM
I guess you missed the part where Bob sent his plane to get Ed Reed and were absent when Bob announced that Case Keenum was the starting QB. Bob is much more involved than you know or want to admit. Florio works for NBC.

I guess you missed the part where Rick Smith was all over that deal.



Ed Reed called Rick Smith personally bringing him to Houston on Bob McNair's plane as "classy."

--------------------------

Ed Reed thrilled GM Rick Smith brought him to Houston for a visit on Bob McNair's jet: "It's that southern hospitality Just a great feeling"

Source (http://www.battleredblog.com/2013/3/14/4104254/2013-nfl-free-agency-ed-reed-has-arrived-in-houston)

And c'mon, man, you know as well as I do that the pressure on Kubiak to check out Keenum was purely looking at potential future assets in a dead-end season. Acting like that scenario is at all related to the 1.1 draft pick is just spinning it to fit your preconceived narrative.

Why can't you just accept the direct quote from Bill O'Brien that they were targeting Clowney all along? You go with rumors like it's truth, yet there's the head coach of the team stating the obvious and you decide to keep living in denial.

Playoffs
06-06-2014, 02:51 PM
NFL @nfl
90 days... #Kickoff2014

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bpd42KBIgAEex_M.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bpd42KBIgAEex_M.jpg

xtruroyaltyx
06-06-2014, 02:54 PM
Damn..The season is only 3 months away...

HOU-TEX
06-06-2014, 03:04 PM
Damn..The season is only 3 months away...

Yup, and TC's only about a month and a half away.

Playoffs
06-06-2014, 03:40 PM
Houston Texans ‏@HoustonTexans
5 videos. 1 story.

From @NFL draft to OTA's in Houston, follow 'The Clowney Timeline (http://bit.ly/1k197XI)'.

MORE: http://bit.ly/1k197XI

http://cbswashington.files.wordpress.com/2014/05/488824893_81.jpg

drs23
06-06-2014, 10:43 PM
Welcome to what I said pages ago: Texian just wants to vomit his displeasure about Clowney after-the-fact and conveniently fails to respond to any direct argument that discredits his. Whether he intends to act as one or not, he's just trolling the thread and as such shouldn't be responded to as long as that's all he wants to do.

As for Clowney's deal, he gets $22 mil guaranteed it looks like.

You take that back! Mr. Texian always accepts the apologies of those who point out that he's FOS "IN ADVANCE" Pffft

And he get's a :pop: because there's not a raspberry. :D

False Start
06-07-2014, 12:25 AM
McClain is reporting on twitter that Clowney has agreed to terms.

:mcclain:

Good deal, now just one left to sign.

thunderkyss
06-07-2014, 03:39 AM
Found this article (http://badmanbureau.com/2014/05/19/jadeveon-clowney-and-jj-watt/) in an obscure corner of the internets

The other result is one every football fan should salivate over — the league’s best defensive player has been paired with arguably the best defensive prospect of the last 30 years.

On the same line. Together. Mere feet away from each other. This is awesome.

Texian
06-07-2014, 11:00 AM
I would say that was more of Bob getting tired of the status quo more than he was going Jerrah .

This is the general thinking of those, who when they first wake up bow to Kirby and repeat the same exercise at noon and at sunset. uummmm mali mali uuummmm.

Honoring Earl 34
06-07-2014, 11:24 AM
This is the general thinking of those, who when they first wake up bow to Kirby and repeat the same exercise at noon and and at sunset. uummmm mali mali uuummmm.

or it could be someone who has a decent idea of the perception of the Texans . They were deemed to be less than tough mentally so they bring in the grizzled old injured vet who made Brady nervous . McNair also brought in Wade to help Kubes who had Richard Smith and Frank Bush as his DCs .

drs23
06-07-2014, 11:41 AM
Found this article (http://badmanbureau.com/2014/05/19/jadeveon-clowney-and-jj-watt/) in an obscure corner of the internets



Obscure Corner is spot on but enjoyed the read.

Thanks. :tiphat:

Texian
06-07-2014, 02:22 PM
or it could be someone who has a decent idea of the perception of the Texans . They were deemed to be less than tough mentally so they bring in the grizzled old injured vet who made Brady nervous . McNair also brought in Wade to help Kubes who had Richard Smith and Frank Bush as his DCs .

Unfortunately Wade was not even initially consulted about signing Ed Reed. Wade became aware after the fact. uuummm mali mali uummmm. :)

Honoring Earl 34
06-07-2014, 02:26 PM
Unfortunately Wade was not even initially consulted about signing Ed Reed. Wade became aware after the fact. uuummm mali mali uummmm. :)

Being weanies was a reflection on Wade as well so why would Bob consult him? He wanted to be tougher and smarter and Reed smartly showed him how to millions with ease .:pinned:

Texian
06-07-2014, 03:04 PM
Being weanies was a reflection on Wade as well so why would Bob consult him? He wanted to be tougher and smarter and Reed smartly showed him how to millions with ease .:pinned:

I think most would say Ed Reed contributed very little or nothing at all, unless of course you bow to Kirby 3 times a day. Then of course Bob can do no wrong and Ed Reed was a brilliant move. uummmm mali mali uuummmm. :)

Honoring Earl 34
06-07-2014, 03:29 PM
I think most would say Ed Reed contributed very little or nothing at all, unless of course you bow to Kirby 3 times a day. Then of course Bob can do no wrong and Ed Reed was a brilliant move. uummmm mali mali uuummmm. :)

Ed taught Bob and Rick and important lesson in business . Honey honey boo boo .

drs23
06-07-2014, 04:38 PM
Ed taught Bob and Rick and important lesson in business. Honey honey boo boo .

No one will ever convince me that that the Ed Reed fleecing wasn't a McNair call from jumpstreet because of what he said at the time. All Rick did was call the hangar tell 'em to gas up the ol' biplane and give them a destination to pick Reed up.

This whole fiasco just flies in the face of what McNair's off season speech of a few years ago when he said they'd NEVER "sign another aging vet at the end of his career that was just looking for one last payday" ( That quote may not be verbatim, if not it's really close). IIRC he specifically named Ahmad Green and *Ron Dayne*(*I think), then turned around and did exactly that.

Personally I can't believe we didn't receive way more negative or humiliating media response than we did. I was a Ben Tate kinda fan at the time. You know, wishy-washy. Cudos to those that called it what it was and what it turned out to be: A fleecing by a washed up, broken down, crippled crook. And McNair seemingly skated through it unscathed in the media.

I have nothing but my gut feelings here but my guess is Bill O'Brien won't be afraid to call a spade a spade and make his opposition know with no room for misunderstanding. Just my :twocents:...

badboy
06-07-2014, 04:48 PM
So almost a year later fans are arguing whose fault signing Reed was? Talk about boredom.

Honoring Earl 34
06-07-2014, 06:05 PM
So almost a year later fans are arguing whose fault signing Reed was? Talk about boredom.

No ... we're just arguing with Texian .

drs23
06-07-2014, 09:51 PM
No ... we're just arguing with Texian .

But I typed "I agree". That's gotta be at least a timeout if not a demerit, huh? :mariopalm:

Texian
06-07-2014, 11:02 PM
No one will ever convince me that that the Ed Reed fleecing wasn't a McNair call from jumpstreet because of what he said at the time. All Rick did was call the hangar tell 'em to gas up the ol' biplane and give them a destination to pick Reed up.

This whole fiasco just flies in the face of what McNair's off season speech of a few years ago when he said they'd NEVER "sign another aging vet at the end of his career that was just looking for one last payday" ( That quote may not be verbatim, if not it's really close). IIRC he specifically named Ahmad Green and *Ron Dayne*(*I think), then turned around and did exactly that.

Personally I can't believe we didn't receive way more negative or humiliating media response than we did. I was a Ben Tate kinda fan at the time. You know, wishy-washy. Cudos to those that called it what it was and what it turned out to be: A fleecing by a washed up, broken down, crippled crook. And McNair seemingly skated through it unscathed in the media.

I have nothing but my gut feelings here but my guess is Bill O'Brien won't be afraid to call a spade a spade and make his opposition know with no room for misunderstanding. Just my :twocents:...

In support of your comments to which I agree:

Seth Payne ‏@PayneNFL

The fact that Wade Phillips wasn't consulted with before they signed Ed Reed still freaks me the hell out.

https://twitter.com/PayneNFL/status/412351635835604992

and to add to the discussion:

Seth Payne ‏@PayneNFL

Since '93 Romeo Crennel has been HC, DC, or DL coach for 19 squads. Not a single DE has had double digit sacks.

9:37 AM - 19 Jan 2014

https://twitter.com/PayneNFL/status/424928679794196480

EllisUnit
06-07-2014, 11:21 PM
In support of your comments to which I agree:

Seth Payne ‏@PayneNFL

The fact that Wade Phillips wasn't consulted with before they signed Ed Reed still freaks me the hell out.

https://twitter.com/PayneNFL/status/412351635835604992

and to add to the discussion:

Seth Payne ‏@PayneNFL

Since '93 Romeo Crennel has been HC, DC, or DL coach for 19 squads. Not a single DE has had double digit sacks.

9:37 AM - 19 Jan 2014

https://twitter.com/PayneNFL/status/424928679794196480

JJ Watt is unlike any DE he has coached or i have ever seen in the NFL, he will get his. To many weapons on the Dline for them to double/triple team him now so i expect 15+ sacks from him this season

badboy
06-07-2014, 11:22 PM
In support of your comments to which I agree:

Seth Payne ‏@PayneNFL

The fact that Wade Phillips wasn't consulted with before they signed Ed Reed still freaks me the hell out.

https://twitter.com/PayneNFL/status/412351635835604992

and to add to the discussion:

Seth Payne ‏@PayneNFL

Since '93 Romeo Crennel has been HC, DC, or DL coach for 19 squads. Not a single DE has had double digit sacks.

9:37 AM - 19 Jan 2014

https://twitter.com/PayneNFL/status/424928679794196480
Well JJ will change that and Clowney will be an OLB and will get double good double good Double Mint sacks!

PHILLYTEXANFAN
06-07-2014, 11:58 PM
In support of your comments to which I agree:

Seth Payne ‏@PayneNFL

The fact that Wade Phillips wasn't consulted with before they signed Ed Reed still freaks me the hell out.

https://twitter.com/PayneNFL/status/412351635835604992

and to add to the discussion:

Seth Payne ‏@PayneNFL

Since '93 Romeo Crennel has been HC, DC, or DL coach for 19 squads. Not a single DE has had double digit sacks.

9:37 AM - 19 Jan 2014

https://twitter.com/PayneNFL/status/424928679794196480

Seymour got close twice with 8.... That being said, he ain't no JJ

dc_txtech
06-08-2014, 12:13 AM
In support of your comments to which I agree:

Seth Payne ‏@PayneNFL

The fact that Wade Phillips wasn't consulted with before they signed Ed Reed still freaks me the hell out.

https://twitter.com/PayneNFL/status/412351635835604992

and to add to the discussion:

Seth Payne ‏@PayneNFL

Since '93 Romeo Crennel has been HC, DC, or DL coach for 19 squads. Not a single DE has had double digit sacks.

9:37 AM - 19 Jan 2014

https://twitter.com/PayneNFL/status/424928679794196480

I'm ok with Watt ending up at 9 sacks if that enables Clowney and Mercilus to combine for 30.

If Crennel isn't an idiot he will figure out how to get Watt rolling. Clowney, Mercilus, and Cushing will be bonuses. I can't wait to see this defense.

AngryNateFTW
06-08-2014, 12:32 AM
Watt has already shown that he doesn't need sacks to be a dominating player on defense.

(He graded out better last year with only 10.5 sacks than he did in 2012 where he had 20.5)

thunderkyss
06-08-2014, 01:14 AM
Watt has already showed that he doesn't need sacks to be a dominating player on defense.

(He graded out better last year with only 10.5 sacks than he did in 2012 where he had 20.5)

I'm more in-line with this type of thinking. I could care less if any of the guys get double digit sacks or not. I want to win, & if that means the QB is tossing ducks for our secondary to pick off, before one of the DLmen get their paws on him, so be it.

Crennel may have not coached many double digit sack artists, but he's coached a few Super Bowl defenses. I'd take the latter any day of the week, twice on Sunday & whatever day they play the Super Bowl.

LikeMike
06-08-2014, 05:20 AM
I don`t really know too much about the collective bargaining agreement - so I am not sure how much wiggle room there is for the signings. I though everything was pretty much set. Am I wrong? Because if that`s the case, why does it even take some of these athletes this long to sign? If it`s not like that, did we get a team friendly or a player friendly deal?

badboy
06-08-2014, 08:39 PM
I don`t really know too much about the collective bargaining agreement - so I am not sure how much wiggle room there is for the signings. I though everything was pretty much set. Am I wrong? Because if that`s the case, why does it even take some of these athletes this long to sign? If it`s not like that, did we get a team friendly or a player friendly deal?It might be due to things in contract besides upfront bonus and salary like roster bonus but you have a good point. I think the first round amount is set but others are up for negotiation. Who signs first leaves less of the pie for others.

bOODRO87
06-09-2014, 01:42 PM
Puma is going to give Clowney roughly 190 million... Good night..

Trap_Star
06-09-2014, 02:01 PM
Puma is going to give Clowney roughly 190 million... Good night..

That can't be right. Not even basketball players get shoe deals like that, and they actually sell shoes unlike football players.

bOODRO87
06-09-2014, 02:06 PM
That can't be right. Not even basketball players get shoe deals like that, and they actually sell shoes unlike football players.

I thought the same thing. He's also signed with Wilson, Gillette, and New Era. That's insane if true. Get it, man!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vCA7DpdPIV4

http://www.gogamecocks.com/2014/05/14/596440/clowney-in-line-for-big-payday.html

Trap_Star
06-09-2014, 02:12 PM
Wow, his agent wins at life. Wow.




And yet he wears nike at OTAs

Double Barrel
06-09-2014, 03:41 PM
Since '93 Romeo Crennel has been HC, DC, or DL coach for 19 squads. Not a single DE has had double digit sacks.


I'd take Romeo Crennels' 5 Super Bowl rings every day of the week over anyone's individual statistics.

And I have no doubt that JJ Watt agrees with this mentality.

Playoffs
06-09-2014, 04:54 PM
Short interview today: http://www.houstontexans.com/tv-media/videos/Clowney_working_extra_to_learn_LB/34c62910-46a9-4f60-b0d8-e8290a46a738

"Every time I think I know it they throw in something new for me."

ObsiWan
06-09-2014, 06:19 PM
I thought the same thing. He's also signed with Wilson, Gillette, and New Era. That's insane if true. Get it, man!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vCA7DpdPIV4

http://www.gogamecocks.com/2014/05/14/596440/clowney-in-line-for-big-payday.html

Forbes says it's so....

LINK (http://www.forbes.com/sites/darrenheitner/2014/05/19/jadeveon-clowney-becomes-face-of-wilson-football-with-multi-year-endorsement-deal/)

And so does ESPN (http://espn.go.com/nfl/draft2014/story/_/id/10898747/jadeveon-clowney-signs-endorsement-deal-puma). Apparently there were several deals inked right after the draft.

Clowney joins Minnesota Vikings (http://espn.go.com/nfl/team/_/name/min/minnesota-vikings) wide receiver Cordarrelle Patterson (http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/_/id/15807/cordarrelle-patterson), New England Patriots (http://espn.go.com/nfl/team/_/name/nwe/new-england-patriots) wide receiver Julian Edelman (http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/_/id/12649/julian-edelman) and Kansas City Chiefs (http://espn.go.com/nfl/team/_/name/kan/kansas-city-chiefs) running back Jamaal Charles (http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/_/id/11307/jamaal-charles) as other Puma endorsers in the league. Last summer, the brand dropped former New England Patriots tight end Aaron Hernandez (http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/_/id/13230/aaron-hernandez), less than three months after signing him, on the day he was charged with murder.
Clowney is Puma's only signee for this year's draft class.

leebigeztx
06-09-2014, 10:18 PM
Teams wll still turn protection and or double jj until someone proves they can beat single blocks consistently. Great thing about RAC is that all the lbs are ex de's from college.That means all will rush the passer. In ne,Vrabel rushed the passer and had as many sacks as anyone on that team.

Playoffs
06-09-2014, 10:24 PM
Puma is going to give Clowney roughly 190 million... Good night..

Not true.

thunderkyss
06-09-2014, 11:22 PM
Teams wll still turn protection and or double jj until someone proves they can beat single blocks consistently. Great thing about RAC is that all the lbs are ex de's from college.That means all will rush the passer. In ne,Vrabel rushed the passer and had as many sacks as anyone on that team.

Even though Jj Watt was getting doubled on almost every play, Antonio Smith was getting doubled just as often. Our problem is that we need someone other than Jj Watt that can beat a double team.

Whether teams use 5 men, 6 men, or 7 men to block our pass rush, they'll still be able to run their offense, move the chains & score... unless our secondary really steps it up.

Jj's going to get doubled, & so will the next guy who is able to beat man coverage.

Hopefully Powe/Nix can help out & demand a double as well as Jadeveon/Mercilus.

xtruroyaltyx
06-09-2014, 11:51 PM
Teams wll still turn protection and or double jj until someone proves they can beat single blocks consistently. Great thing about RAC is that all the lbs are ex de's from college.That means all will rush the passer. In ne,Vrabel rushed the passer and had as many sacks as anyone on that team.

Yep.

Hard for an offense to double two guys and be successful.

Watt will be doubled and that will leave everyone else single blocked most plays.

badboy
06-10-2014, 12:21 AM
Not true.Poster above says ESPN and Forbes confirms it and you say not true? Based on what?

bOODRO87
06-10-2014, 08:28 AM
Not true.

Usually when you prove something you leave a link..

ObsiWan
06-10-2014, 09:04 AM
Puma is going to give Clowney roughly 190 million... Good night..

Not true.

Poster above says ESPN and Forbes confirms it and you say not true? Based on what?

I checked half a dozen different links about the endorsement deals Clowney signed; they all say some version of the same thing:

"It’s a multi-year deal. We do not share specific details of our endorsement agreements." <--- that refered to the Wilson deal.

on the Puma deal ---> The projected No. 1 overall pick for Thursday's NFL draft, South Carolina defensive end Jadeveon Clowney (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft/player/_/id/33597/jadeveon-clowney), has signed an endorsement deal with Puma. Terms were not disclosed.

It is in the best interest of these companies to keep their mouths shut about what guy signed for how much. And I'll bet it's written into the endorsement contracts that the athletes also have to keep their mouths shut about the details.

Only blockbuster/news-making deals get disclosed - like when Tiger Woods signed with Nike for an unheard of (at the time) $40 Mil when he graduated from Stanford.

xtruroyaltyx
06-10-2014, 09:19 AM
"In the meantime, Clowney is not hurting for dollars. He already has signed four endorsement deals, including one with Puma that Brandt said is worth around $190 million. Clowney also has deals with Wilson, Gillette and New Era, according to ESPN.com."

http://www.classicalite.com/articles/8272/20140517/jadeveon-clowney-1-draft-pick-jewelry-new-shoes-190-million.htm

Looks like Brandt is the only one saying that.

Playoffs
06-10-2014, 12:03 PM
Poster above says ESPN and Forbes confirms it and you say not true? Based on what?Didn't make sense. Nike is a $68 billion dollar company, PUMA is ~$3 billion.

The biggest & best typically sign 10 year deals. For Nike Jordan is #1, Tiger is #2 @$20 per year.

Roger Federer, Lebron James, Derek Jeter, Rory Mcilroy, Rafael Nadal are all around $10 million per year. Note they play "world" sports. No American footballers are in Nike's top 10.

Peyton Manning is reported to have the highest NFL total combined (http://opendorse.com/top-100-highest-paid-athlete-endorsers-of-2013/) annual endorsement deals at $12 million.

So a company <5% the size of Nike -- whose last quarter earnings dropped 30% -- is going to ink an unproven non-QB to a 10 year, $19 million per year deal? In a country specific sport where JD cannot even display their logo during games?

I asked Darren Rovell -- ESPN Sports Business Reporter & ABC News Business Correspondent -- and he laughed at that number, saying it would be closer to $190,000.

"In the meantime, Clowney is not hurting for dollars. He already has signed four endorsement deals, including one with Puma that Brandt said is worth around $190 million. Clowney also has deals with Wilson, Gillette and New Era, according to ESPN.com."

Looks like Brandt is the only one saying that.Yes, but I can't find a direct quote of Brandt and he has yet to respond to inquiries. I imagine it was pulled from XM/Sirius radio show where he likely misspoke the number that, when reported, are typically higher than reality.

If Clowney signed a $190 million deal it would have been lead story on ESPN, just as Rory's "$250 million" Nike deal -- that ended up not being correct -- was when it dropped.

Texian
06-10-2014, 01:50 PM
Didn't make sense. Nike is a $68 billion dollar company, PUMA is ~$3 billion.

The biggest & best typically sign 10 year deals. For Nike Jordan is #1, Tiger is #2 @$20 per year.

Roger Federer, Lebron James, Derek Jeter, Rory Mcilroy, Rafael Nadal are all around $10 million per year. Note they play "world" sports. No American footballers are in Nike's top 10.

Peyton Manning is reported to have the highest NFL total combined (http://opendorse.com/top-100-highest-paid-athlete-endorsers-of-2013/) annual endorsement deals at $12 million.

So a company <5% the size of Nike -- whose last quarter earnings dropped 30% -- is going to ink an unproven non-QB to a 10 year, $19 million per year deal? In a country specific sport where JD cannot even display their logo during games?

I asked Darren Rovell -- ESPN Sports Business Reporter & ABC News Business Correspondent -- and he laughed at that number, saying it would be closer to $190,000.

Yes, but I can't find a direct quote of Brandt and he has yet to respond to inquiries. I imagine it was pulled from XM/Sirius radio show where he likely misspoke the number that, when reported, are typically higher than reality.

If Clowney signed a $190 million deal it would have been lead story on ESPN, just as Rory's "$250 million" Nike deal -- that ended up not being correct -- was when it dropped.

The reason this doesn't make sense is Tiger got $100 million from Nike.

ObsiWan
06-10-2014, 08:20 PM
The reason this doesn't make sense is Tiger got $100 million from Nike.
Tiger's first deal - right out of Stanford - was only for $40 mil...
(heh! "only" he sez).
The $100 mil was for the 5-yr extension he signed in 2000.

drs23
06-18-2014, 01:20 AM
Analysis: Clowney is far and away the top prospect in this year's draft and one of the best defensive players in the process since Bruce Smith in 1985. He's a lineman who is dominant in all facets with the ability to play in a variety of schemes at the next level. Clowney comes with enormous upside but must learn to do the little things well and prepare himself off the field to reach his incredible potential on the field. Hands down the top player in the 2014 NFL Draft.

The rest is here. (http://www.draftinsider.net/reports/2014/DE/Jadeveon-Clowney)

I'd be really pleased to see this guy do everything everyone say's he can do. The whole time I was reading that I was :thinking:...JDC is on the same line as that #99 guy.

If Clowney starts as well as JJ did and progresses as well in yrs. 2 & 3 will he be as good? If his bone spurs poof into the night (after his groin surgery(s?) heal(s) for sure :D) do you think Clowney can or will meet or exceed what JJ's accomplished?

Just axin.

Playoffs
06-18-2014, 08:37 AM
...do you think Clowney can or will meet or exceed what JJ's accomplished?

Just axin.

Nope. At his current trajectory, I expect Watt to be in the GOAT conversation.

I expect Clowney's rookie year to mirror Watt's -- slow early until he can stop thinking and just play.

thunderkyss
06-20-2014, 08:46 AM
The rest is here. (http://www.draftinsider.net/reports/2014/DE/Jadeveon-Clowney)

I'd be really pleased to see this guy do everything everyone say's he can do. The whole time I was reading that I was :thinking:...JDC is on the same line as that #99 guy.

If Clowney starts as well as JJ did and progresses as well in yrs. 2 & 3 will he be as good? If his bone spurs poof into the night (after his groin surgery(s?) heal(s) for sure :D) do you think Clowney can or will meet or exceed what JJ's accomplished?

Just axin.

Jj really came into his own at the end of his rookie season. I remember saying that 2012 wasn't going to be good for us, they let Mario go & I didn't see Brooks (who also played well down that stretch) & JJ continuing to play at that level... I mean we already struck gold on Mario, Demeco, & Cushing, (& Connor was looking good at that point as well) what were the odds?

Little did I know.

CloakNNNdagger
06-20-2014, 09:16 AM
...Texans’ Clowney declines to say whether he’ll be ready for training camp (http://blog.chron.com/ultimatetexans/2014/06/texans-jadeveon-clowney-remains-on-track-obrien-says/#24365101=0)

Posted on June 19, 2014 | By Brian T. Smith


Rookie Jadeveon Clowney remains on track, Texans coach Bill O’Brien said Thursday, despite the No. 1 overall pick missing a three-day mandatory minicamp due to sports hernia surgery.

After Clowney underwent surgery last week, O’Brien said the first-year linebacker would be healthy for training camp, which begins in late July.

Clowney said he’s making progress during his rehab. But the former South Carolina star wouldn’t definitively say whether he’ll be ready for the start of training camp. He also vaguely addressed the origin of his injury, which he said did not occur before the May draft. Clowney said the Texans instructed him to quickly deal with the issue rather than let the injury linger.

“When I got here, one of the issues was, when I got here,” Clowney said. “I just wanted to get it taken care of.”

PapaL
06-20-2014, 09:39 AM
...

Sounds like Texans talk to me. Be as vague as possible and say nothing.

Playoffs
06-20-2014, 10:16 AM
Medical Update: What is a sports hernia?:

http://www.csnhouston.com/texans/medical-update-what-sports-hernia

Texian
06-20-2014, 11:00 AM
do you think Clowney can or will meet or exceed what JJ's accomplished?

Just axin.

Nope, IMHO Clowney is a one trick pony, a testament to his 3 sacks, his last year at So Caro.

Honoring Earl 34
06-20-2014, 11:06 AM
Nope, IMHO Clowney is a one trick pony, a testament to his 3 sacks, his last year at So Caro.

So you say but it will all come out in the wash .

My prediction is 9 sacks and 2 defensive TDs scored by JD . One of a Bortles fumble .

Texian
06-20-2014, 11:17 AM
So you say but it will all come out in the wash .

My prediction is 9 sacks and 2 defensive TDs scored by JD . One of a Bortles fumble .

My prediction is WRONG BRUCE, will be more like Aundray BRUCE than BRUCE Smith. Bortles made JC miss 3 times in last year's game. A step up or side step and JC is out of the play. JC doesn't change direction well and his only 1 great attribute is his straight line speed. As a result, will also likely be a liability in the run game. With 16 games instead of 12 my prediction is 1 more than 3.

corytx8
06-20-2014, 11:40 AM
My prediction is WRONG BRUCE, will be more like Aundray BRUCE than BRUCE Smith. Bortles made JC miss 3 times in last year's game. A step up or side step and JC is out of the play. JC doesn't change direction well and his only 1 great attribute is his straight line speed. As a result, will also likely be a liability in the run game. With 16 games instead of 12 my prediction is 1 more than 3.


Ok dude, you've made your point in various threads about your opinion on JDC being a bust. He is a Texan now and the nfl is different from college ball. How about letting his nfl career play out first before calling him a bust.

DBCooper
06-20-2014, 11:42 AM
Ok dude, you've made your point in various threads about your opinion on JDC being a bust. He is a Texan now and the nfl is different from college ball. How letting his bfl career play out first before calling him a bust.

Wait for him to tell us that he "knew" all along that JD would be great.

IDEXAN
06-20-2014, 12:07 PM
Ok dude, you've made your point in various threads about your opinion on JDC being a bust. He is a Texan now and the nfl is different from college ball. How about letting his nfl career play out first before calling him a bust.
Thany You !
Texians has a one-tract mind, he seems to still be in full pre-draft mode, would someone please explain to him that the 2014 NFL Draft has concluded and we've made our picks and all have been signed.
Maybe JD will be a bust, but lets wait and see, he's now our guy and at the very least we should wait for the season to begin before we pass judgment.

Honoring Earl 34
06-20-2014, 12:16 PM
My prediction is WRONG BRUCE, will be more like Aundray BRUCE than BRUCE Smith. Bortles made JC miss 3 times in last year's game. A step up or side step and JC is out of the play. JC doesn't change direction well and his only 1 great attribute is his straight line speed. As a result, will also likely be a liability in the run game. With 16 games instead of 12 my prediction is 1 more than 3.

Once again we will see and you can say it all you want but it's going to be a long fall for you .

Has there ever been a defensive and offensive rookie of the year from the same team ?

NCTexan
06-20-2014, 12:21 PM
clowney doesnt seem like he has fast twitch muscle fibers.

similar to mario williams.


Have you seen his first step?


athletic stiffs. kinda like oscar de la hoya and dwight howard.


He does need to work on his flexibility.

DBCooper
06-20-2014, 12:24 PM
clowney doesnt seem like he has fast twitch muscle fibers.

similar to mario williams.

athletic stiffs. kinda like oscar de la hoya and dwight howard.

everybody is almost always fast and strong in the nfl. what separates a regular football player from a allstar or all pro is fast twitch muscle fibers.

Uh ok.

You have seen this guy run, right?

Seen that first step?

Fast twitch slow twitch the dude is big and quick and fast!

DBCooper
06-20-2014, 12:26 PM
Have you seen his first step?



He does need to work on his flexibility.

Dammit NC, beat my first step, lol

NCTexan
06-20-2014, 12:30 PM
having speed (at that size) doesnt necessarily mean you have fast twitch muscle fibers.

you said it yourself with that post, he needs to work on his flexibility. from what ive seen on video, he doesnt look like he has fast twitch muscle fibers.

Fast Twitch and flexibility are two totally different things. Just because I say he needs to work on flexibility doesn't mean I think he lacks fast twitch muscle.

I'm also not talking about his speed, I'm talking about his first step. He gets out of his stance and moving FAST. Which is was twitch muscle fibers are. He is quick.

Dammit NC, beat my first step, lol

It's all the forum combine prep I did. I'm hoping to be drafted as a moderator soon.

:kitten:

The Pencil Neck
06-20-2014, 12:41 PM
clowney doesnt seem like he has fast twitch muscle fibers.

similar to mario williams.

athletic stiffs. kinda like oscar de la hoya and dwight howard.

everybody is almost always fast and strong in the nfl. what separates a regular football player from a allstar or all pro is fast twitch muscle fibers.

To me, it seems that you don't know fast twitch when you see them.

The differences between Clowney and Mario are pretty dramatic when you watch them play but that's not just about the muscle fiber type.

Personally, I was not a Clowney supporter prior to the draft. BUT. One of the things I really liked about him was that he was so different than Mario. When Mario would get into the backfield quickly, he was very stiff and he seemed to have a very hard time figuring out who had the ball in most cases. At that point, he would usually become very wooden and stiff.

Clowney is completely different. When he gets into the backfield, he's like a missile going toward the ball. You don't see that stiffness. At least, I never did. So I don't know what stiffness you're talking about.

Again, that has absolutely nothing to do with muscle fiber type.

xtruroyaltyx
06-20-2014, 12:49 PM
For how big Clowney is, he's not really stiff.

But....I don't think he's this really limber guy out there either.

NCTexan
06-20-2014, 01:00 PM
For how big Clowney is, he's not really stiff.

But....I don't think he's this really limber guy out there either.

I wouldn't be worried about it if he was playing DE. I'd like him to be a bit more flexible for OLB, but I think he'll get there. He just wasn't asked to be that in college.

Honoring Earl 34
06-20-2014, 01:20 PM
clowney is athletic. super fast for his size.

my concern is with his lack of agility, dexterity, and flexibility (with speed).

all hallmarks of fast twitch muscle fibered athletes.

Yep ... he's the poster child for stiffness .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dmkv4sQx8oE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZ9j78hKzOs

Texian
06-20-2014, 01:29 PM
Wait for him to tell us that he "knew" all along that JD would be great.

Nope but I will remind you I knew all along he would be more like Aundray Bruce.

clowney doesnt seem like he has fast twitch muscle fibers.

similar to mario williams.

athletic stiffs. kinda like oscar de la hoya and dwight howard.

everybody is almost always fast and strong in the nfl. what separates a regular football player from a allstar or all pro is fast twitch muscle fibers.

When the NFL introduces barrels and tennis balls to the game, Clowney will be the best there ever was.

Nitrofish
06-20-2014, 01:44 PM
clowney is athletic. super fast for his size.

my concern is with his lack of agility, dexterity, and flexibility (with speed).

all hallmarks of fast twitch muscle fibered athletes.

I've got your fast twitch muscle fiber right here!

http://i61.tinypic.com/199wci.jpg

Honoring Earl 34
06-20-2014, 01:49 PM
Nope but I will remind you I knew all along he would be more like Aundray Bruce.



When the NFL introduces barrels and tennis balls to the game, Clowney will be the best there ever was.

Clowney can only do what he's asked to do by Jim Washburn a pro DL coach . Of course nobody has done the seven bags before because of what it takes as an athlete . Try some Gold Bond on your peepee to relieve the hurt from the Texans not picking Bortles .

Honoring Earl 34
06-20-2014, 01:50 PM
I've got your fast twitch muscle fiber right here!

http://i61.tinypic.com/199wci.jpg

I wondered why they wanted to take my picture . :turtle:

CloakNNNdagger
06-20-2014, 01:55 PM
I've mentioned the "sports triad" in past threads...........hip labral tears, rectus abdominis tears [abdomen "sports hernia"], and adductor strains in NFL players have come to be formally coined the “Sports Hip Triad.”

Femoral acetabular (hip) impingement [also know as FAI now has become known to be an early developmental mismatch deformity between the ball and socket of the hip joint, which when accompanied by factors causing hip mechanical problems in compensation to things such as chronic lower limb problems of the knee, ankle and/or foot ( can lead to athletic pubalgia ["sports hernia"]). Any condition, including chronic painful bone spurs as in Clowney's case, significantly adversely affecting hip mechanics puts an athlete at risk for subsequent "sports hernia" and degenerative hip problems.

It has been shown that a very high percentage of athletes that have gone on to have "sports hernia" surgery will already have undergone hip surgery, or will have subsequently required hip surgery.

Only one of several studies recognizing this strong association:

Hip Disorder Common With Sports-Related Inguinal Hernias

July 19, 2012 (Baltimore, Maryland) — Femoral acetabular impingement (FAI) is common among people with sports-related inguinal hernias, according to findings presented here at the American Orthopaedic Society for Sports Medicine (AOSSM) 2012 Annual Meeting.

The study found evidence of FAI in [B]86% of patients who had undergone sports-related hernia repairs.

"Our study shows a high prevalence of patients with treated sports hernias have FAI," said lead investigator Kostas Economopoulos, MD, from the Department of Orthopaedics at the University of Virginia, Richmond. "These results strengthen the idea that FAI and sports hernias may be related."

Given the high prevalence, Dr. Economopoulos noted that "underlying FAI may be a cause of continued groin pain after sports hernia surgery and should be evaluated for patients who do not improve."

Although sports hernias are a common cause of groin pain in athletes, not much is known about the source of the posterior wall weakness that leads to sports hernias. Several studies have shown an association between chronic groin pain and pathology, he noted. However, none of the earlier studies have shown the specific prevalence of FAI in patients with sports hernias.

FAI is a hip condition involving a mechanical mismatch, Dr. Economopoulos explained. Either the femoral head, or ball, is out of round and/or the acetabulum in the socket extends over the ball too far, allowing for uneven wear inside the joint and leading to reduced range of motion and blocked internal rotation, which can lead to secondary damage to the joint.

FAI also can change the mechanics of gait. The changes in pelvic biomechanics may lead to increased stresses across the groin, so it is possible that athletes with underlying FAI may be more likely to develop a sports hernia because of these stresses, he said.

REST OF STORY (http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/767740)

Another article to further explain the association.


“If individuals have symptoms of athletic pubalgia otherwise known as sports hernia, doctors should carefully assess their hip joint to make sure there is not an underlying mechanical problem in the hip that may be the bigger problem in the overall function of the athlete,” said Bryan Kelly, M.D., co-director of the Center for Hip Preservation at Hospital for Special Surgery who led the study. “If patients present with both sports hernia and femoro-acetabular impingement symptoms, you have to consider what the order of treatment should be or whether you should just treat one.” He said the research suggests that treating the joint mechanics first is optimal and if problems persist, doctors can then try surgery for the sports hernia.
In recent years, a hip condition known as femoro-acetabular impingement (FAI) or hip impingement has become widely recognized in the medical community. The hip is a ball-and-socket joint where the upper end of the thigh bone fits into the cup-shaped socket of the pelvis. In a healthy hip joint, the ball rotates freely in the cup, but in some people a bony bump on the upper thigh bone produces a situation where there is inadequate space for the hip bone to move freely in the socket. The result is damage to the socket rim and the cartilage that lines the bones, which can lead to hip arthritis. In the past few years, doctors have thought that this condition may also cause sports hernias. A sports hernia is a tearing of the tissue that forms the inner part of the abdominal wall and inserts into the pubic bone.
To investigate how often FAI is associated with sports hernia, researchers examined the records of all professional athletes who underwent arthroscopic surgery at HSS for symptomatic FAI between April 2005 and April 2010. Patients were included if their FAI limited their ability to return to competitive play. The group, 38 in total, included nine baseball players, 13 football players, eight hockey players, five soccer players, two basketball players, and one skater. Retrospective data regarding prior athletic sports hernia surgery, ability to return to play, and duration until return to play was collected from all patients.

The investigators found that while 32 percent of the athletes had previously undergone surgery for their hernia, none of them had been able to return to their previous level of competition with the hernia surgery alone. One patient underwent hernia surgery at the same time as the FAI surgery. Thirty-nine percent of patients had hernia symptoms that resolved with FAI surgery alone and 36 of 38 patients were able to return to their previous level of play. All 12 patients that had both hernia and FAI surgery were able to return to professional competition. On average, athletes were able to return to their sport 5.9 months after arthroscopic surgery.

This is the first paper that has looked at the coincidence of FAI and sports hernia, and has practical implications for practice. “Groin pulls and lower abdominal muscle strains are frequently associated with hip joint mechanical problems, and patients should make sure that doctors are looking at both those locations as potential sources of the pain,” said Dr. Kelly, who is also in the Sports Medicine and Shoulder Service at HSS. “Before this study we knew that both impingement in the hip joint and athletic pubalgia were the cause of decreased function and pain in athletes. Now we recognize that there is a close relationship between those two, and oftentimes the problems coexist and need to be looked at when treatment options are being discussed.” link (http://www.hss.edu/newsroom_common-hip-disorder-sports-hernia.asp)

For those of you that don't know, Bennie Joppru after multiple "sports hernia" repairs left the Texans and spent a short while with Seattle. His retirement was forced by a hip problem. And BTW, Mario Williams just recently underwent hip surgery.

I suggest that this is strong evidence to correct the probable underlying cause of Clowney's hip mechanics to avoid creation or progression of hip joint problems and associated "sports hernia." Texans/Clowney........address the bone spurs.

The Pencil Neck
06-20-2014, 02:37 PM
clowney is athletic. super fast for his size.

my concern is with his lack of agility, dexterity, and flexibility (with speed).

all hallmarks of fast twitch muscle fibered athletes.

Fast twitch muscle fibers have nothing to do with the agility, dexterity, or flexibility of an athlete.

Fast twitch muscle fiber predominance gives you explosive power; slow twitch muscle fibers give you endurance. Sprinters usually have fast twitch while marathoners usually have slow twitch. Fast twitch muscles have a greater tendency to hypertrophy than slow twitch. Some muscle fibers can be trained to be either fast OR slow twitch so depending on your approach to training, you can shift your muscles one way or the other.

In football terms, fast twitch gives you the ability to have a fast first step and a fast 10-yard dash split. There are other neural factors that either allow you to take advantage of that or not.

From everything I've seen on tape, Clowney is remarkably agile and flexible for a man his size which is different than Mario. Clowney also has a much quicker first step than Mario had which would indicate that he's probably got more of a fast-twitch predominance than Mario.

Comparing Mario to Clowney is a very good thing to do but not because they're so similar, but because Clowney is that much more athletic than Mario ever was.

You're worried about Clowney being like Mario, about him being stiff and unathletic and inflexible but that's not what I've seen in Clowney's tape.

Honoring Earl 34
06-20-2014, 02:42 PM
Fast twitch muscle fibers have nothing to do with the agility, dexterity, or flexibility of an athlete.

Fast twitch muscle fiber predominance gives you explosive power; slow twitch muscle fibers give you endurance. Sprinters usually have fast twitch while marathoners usually have slow twitch. Fast twitch muscles have a greater tendency to hypertrophy than slow twitch. Some muscle fibers can be trained to be either fast OR slow twitch so depending on your approach to training, you can shift your muscles one way or the other.

In football terms, fast twitch gives you the ability to have a fast first step and a fast 10-yard dash split. There are other neural factors that either allow you to take advantage of that or not.

From everything I've seen on tape, Clowney is remarkably agile and flexible for a man his size which is different than Mario. Clowney also has a much quicker first step than Mario had which would indicate that he's probably got more of a fast-twitch predominance than Mario.

Comparing Mario to Clowney is a very good thing to do but not because they're so similar, but because Clowney is that much more athletic than Mario ever was.

You're worried about Clowney being like Mario, about him being stiff and unathletic and inflexible but that's not what I've seen in Clowney's tape.

Can you have slow twitch and a 40" vertical ?

TheRealJoker
06-20-2014, 02:46 PM
I wish I had Clowney's "slow twitch" muscle fibers...

Playoffs
06-20-2014, 06:18 PM
For those of you that don't know, Bennie Joppru...

Wow. You just invoked Benny Joppru on Clowney. http://forum.videohelp.com/customavatars/avatar159347_1.gif http://music-society.net/Smileys/default/s015.gif

The Pencil Neck
06-20-2014, 07:05 PM
Can you have slow twitch and a 40" vertical ?

Everyone has slow twitch fibers and everyone has fast twitch fibers (and everyone has intermediate fibers that mimic slow or fast twitch depending on how you train them.)

You can be predominately fast twitch in your biceps and then predominately slow twitch in your triceps.

Someone with a 40" vertical has probably trained to be explosive. They are probably predominantly fast twitch in the muscle groups used in vertical jumps or they have enough of the intermediate fibers that have been trained to act as fast twitch. (The problem with the intermediate fibers is that if you don't continue to train them, they can revert to a more slow-twitch state.)

And like I said, having a predominance of fast twitch muscle fibers still don't make you extremely fast off the ball; it just gives you that possibility of being explosive off the ball. There are other neural factors besides the fiber types of the muscles involved. You have to get the signal from your brain that it's time to go.

I get a little exasperated sometimes when people like scouts over-simplify what's going on in the muscle there.

Honoring Earl 34
06-20-2014, 08:00 PM
Everyone has slow twitch fibers and everyone has fast twitch fibers (and everyone has intermediate fibers that mimic slow or fast twitch depending on how you train them.)

You can be predominately fast twitch in your biceps and then predominately slow twitch in your triceps.

Someone with a 40" vertical has probably trained to be explosive. They are probably predominantly fast twitch in the muscle groups used in vertical jumps or they have enough of the intermediate fibers that have been trained to act as fast twitch. (The problem with the intermediate fibers is that if you don't continue to train them, they can revert to a more slow-twitch state.)

And like I said, having a predominance of fast twitch muscle fibers still don't make you extremely fast off the ball; it just gives you that possibility of being explosive off the ball. There are other neural factors besides the fiber types of the muscles involved. You have to get the signal from your brain that it's time to go.

I get a little exasperated sometimes when people like scouts over-simplify what's going on in the muscle there.

Back in the day I played a bunch of basketball and remember guys who could jump high but couldn,t win a tipoff to save their life . They could jump high but it wasn't explosive . I played recreational volleyball with a guy who had a cup of coffee with the NY Jets and that dude jumped and it seemed like he never came down . Hakeem could jump twice faster then most can jump once .

Texian
06-20-2014, 08:35 PM
Ok dude, you've made your point in various threads about your opinion on JDC being a bust. He is a Texan now and the nfl is different from college ball. How about letting his nfl career play out first before calling him a bust.

Look, I' not trying to be horse's arse or a Jack Wagon, I hope I am wrong. I really do. However I have spent the last 3 years studying this guy. I have parced every word of just about every comment JC has made this year. Not just JC but his coaches and teammates as well. I have watched over a dozen JC games. Trust me, a lot of it's not good.

I don't think his 3 sacks were a fluke. After playing 3 years in the SEC, coaches figured him out and learned how to block Clowney. Coaches knew JC was a one trick pony, ears back straight line rush with an occasional stunt to the inside. That's about it. He didn't move around much, pretty much a RDE with his hand in the dirt. You just know his coaches wanted more versatility but there was very little. The only time I saw JC line up in OLB pass coverage was his bowl game and he promptly gave up a TD.

After all the hours of evaluations I can't now just take a drink of Texans Kool Aid and say Clowney will be the next Bruce Smith and become the all time sack leader. Smith had 22 sacks his JR year, more than JC had in 3. That's not a fluke either.

Just in case that I might be right, remember this, Clowney's cone and shuttle times were only average at best. Clowneys's 40 says he fast, his cone and shuttle say his change of directions skills are kind of average and ordinary. Much like the 4.30 WR, they sure can run fast but are often poor route runners because they can't change directions. You hardly ever see those sub 4.3 guys leading the league in much of anything.

badboy
06-20-2014, 11:15 PM
2015 first round Houston Texans select an OLB with fast twitch, no bone spurs with more than 3 sacks.

CloakNNNdagger
06-21-2014, 10:51 AM
Jayson Braddock @JaysonBraddock · 34s

NOTE: I'm reading into mannerisms & it's not an exact science, but Clowney wasn't comfortable talking about when the groin injury occured.


Jayson Braddock @JaysonBraddock · 27s

Clowney did say the injury occured in Houston, but Bill Clinton said he "didn't have sexual relations with that woman".

Clowney first developed a "sports hernia" in Houston, just like he first developed bone spurs in Houston.:chef:

Texian
06-21-2014, 11:12 AM
Clowney first developed a "sports hernia" in Houston, just like he first developed bone spurs in Houston.:chef:

Yep, Clowney's groin and spurs were a result of him signing his Texans contract, just like Ed Reed hurt his hip getting off Bob McNair's plane. On a serious note more blunders for the Houston Texans medical staff. They're developing quite a track record for missing on injuries. It's either that or Rick Smith and company are dismissing the medical findings.

mussop
06-21-2014, 11:36 AM
Look, I' not trying to be horse's arse or a Jack Wagon, I hope I am wrong. I really do. However I have spent the last 3 years studying this guy. I have parced every word of just about every comment JC has made this year. Not just JC but his coaches and teammates as well. I have watched over a dozen JC games. Trust me, a lot of it's not good.

I don't think his 3 sacks were a fluke. After playing 3 years in the SEC, coaches figured him out and learned how to block Clowney. Coaches knew JC was a one trick pony, ears back straight line rush with an occasional stunt to the inside. That's about it. He didn't move around much, pretty much a RDE with his hand in the dirt. You just know his coaches wanted more versatility but there was very little. The only time I saw JC line up in OLB pass coverage was his bowl game and he promptly gave up a TD.

After all the hours of evaluations I can't now just take a drink of Texans Kool Aid and say Clowney will be the next Bruce Smith and become the all time sack leader. Smith had 22 sacks his JR year, more than JC had in 3. That's not a fluke either.

Just in case that I might be right, remember this, Clowney's cone and shuttle times were only average at best. Clowneys's 40 says he fast, his cone and shuttle say his change of directions skills are kind of average and ordinary. Much like the 4.30 WR, they sure can run fast but are often poor route runners because they can't change directions. You hardly ever see those sub 4.3 guys leading the league in much of anything.


The fact that he didn't move around much should be a knock on the coaching not on Clowneys versatility. And yes the opposing coaches did figure out how to block him, they ran away from him, they used quick three step drops more and when they didn't do that they loaded up his side with extra protection. Any decent coach would of seen that and made adjustments by moving him around. Spurrier is one of the most over rated coaches In all of football. They never had as good a record under spurrier as they had while Clowney was there.

mussop
06-21-2014, 11:40 AM
Yep, Clowney's groin and spurs were a result of him signing his Texans contract, just like Ed Reed hurt his hip getting off Bob McNair's plane. On a serious note more blunders for the Houston Texans medical staff. They're developing quite a track record for missing on injuries. It's either that or Rick Smith and company are dismissing the medical findings.

Do you think the texans doctors were the only doctors to examin Clowney before the draft?

steelbtexan
06-21-2014, 11:48 AM
Yep, Clowney's groin and spurs were a result of him signing his Texans contract, just like Ed Reed hurt his hip getting off Bob McNair's plane. On a serious note more blunders for the Houston Texans medical staff. They're developing quite a track record for missing on injuries. It's either that or Rick Smith and company are dismissing the medical findings.

You and I have been on the opposite end of this debate. But If I had known that Clowney A. wasn't going to have surgery for the bone spurs after the draft B. Had a sports hernia, then I would have been for drafting

1. Robinson
2. Bortles.

The Texans medical team stinks. Hopefully they do the right thing and tell McNair/Smith/BOB that in addition to the hernia surgery that Clowney also HAS to have the bone spurs removed. Since the Texans aren't winning the SB next yr then they should look at Clowney as a long term investment and get the surgery done NOW, or Clowney will never have the chance to be the player I believe he can become. If he doesn't have the bone spur surgery you will look like a prophet. (I'm sure like me, you hope you were wrong.)

Texian
06-21-2014, 01:03 PM
The fact that he didn't move around much should be a knock on the coaching not on Clowneys versatility.

It could also be that the coaching staff DID IN FACT try moving Clowney around. Coaches are a pretty smart group when it comes to Xs and Os on a football field. I can't imagine that So Caro's defensive coaches wouldn't had tried lining up Clowney everywhere along the front seven to create flexibility, versatility and uncertainty. It had to be one of the first things that came to their mind. The fact that he didn't move around, strongly suggest that he was a RDE with his hand in the dirt kind of player and not much more than that.

Sometimes the Kool Aid doesn't allow hard core, Kirby can do wrong fans the ability to consider alternate points of view. Even when thy make more sense and are more logical. Some say this is being in denial.

badboy
06-21-2014, 01:27 PM
If Clowney does not play this season imo it will be one of the biggest blunders in Texans history. First pick in draft (other than QB) has to start and should start game one on this roster.

Honoring Earl 34
06-21-2014, 01:33 PM
It could also be that the coaching staff DID IN FACT try moving Clowney around. Coaches are a pretty smart group when it comes to Xs and Os on a football field. I can't imagine that So Caro's defensive coaches wouldn't had tried lining up Clowney everywhere along the front seven to create flexibility, versatility and uncertainty. It had to be one of the first things that came to their mind. The fact that he didn't move around, strongly suggest that he was a RDE with his hand in the dirt kind of player and not much more than that.

Sometimes the Kool Aid doesn't allow hard core, Kirby can do wrong fans the ability to consider alternate points of view. Even when thy make more sense and are more logical. Some say this is being in denial.

Your whole arguement against Clowney and linking him to Bruce is your assumption that JD is as dumb as Bruce .

76Texan
06-21-2014, 02:13 PM
It could also be that the coaching staff DID IN FACT try moving Clowney around. Coaches are a pretty smart group when it comes to Xs and Os on a football field. I can't imagine that So Caro's defensive coaches wouldn't had tried lining up Clowney everywhere along the front seven to create flexibility, versatility and uncertainty. It had to be one of the first things that came to their mind. The fact that he didn't move around, strongly suggest that he was a RDE with his hand in the dirt kind of player and not much more than that.

Sometimes the Kool Aid doesn't allow hard core, Kirby can do wrong fans the ability to consider alternate points of view. Even when thy make more sense and are more logical. Some say this is being in denial.


Spurrier did move him around; quite rarely, but he did nonetheless.
I even saw him as a 34 DE.
It's quite common in college though, that some players line up mostly at just one position.
Watt, Reed, and Mercilus all lined up predominantly as a 43 RDE from my recollection.

DBCooper
06-21-2014, 02:32 PM
Sometimes the Kool Aid doesn't allow hard core, Kirby can do wrong fans the ability to consider alternate points of view. Even when thy make more sense and are more logical. Some say this is being in denial.

Forever the martyr.

For speaking da truff!

Here's your new avatar:

http://i1.ytimg.com/vi/fUI3vbHibL4/hqdefault.jpg

mussop
06-21-2014, 02:41 PM
It could also be that the coaching staff DID IN FACT try moving Clowney around. Coaches are a pretty smart group when it comes to Xs and Os on a football field. I can't imagine that So Caro's defensive coaches wouldn't had tried lining up Clowney everywhere along the front seven to create flexibility, versatility and uncertainty. It had to be one of the first things that came to their mind. The fact that he didn't move around, strongly suggest that he was a RDE with his hand in the dirt kind of player and not much more than that.

Sometimes the Kool Aid doesn't allow hard core, Kirby can do wrong fans the ability to consider alternate points of view. Even when thy make more sense and are more logical. Some say this is being in denial.

And sometimes the butt hurt over the passing of a pick that a fan had serious man love for by his team allows his emotional attachment to that player to cause him to dream up BS scenarios as to why the unanimously more talented player who WAS actually picked will fail. This IS called denial.

mussop
06-21-2014, 02:45 PM
If Clowney does not play this season imo it will be one of the biggest blunders in Texans history. First pick in draft (other than QB) has to start and should start game one on this roster.

Why would he not play this season?

badboy
06-21-2014, 02:58 PM
Why would he not play this season?

read post 713. If he does not have the bone spurs removed it could effect his hips. There has been no indication he will have spurs removed.....

Texian
06-21-2014, 07:47 PM
Your whole arguement against Clowney and linking him to Bruce is your assumption that JD is as dumb as Bruce .

Until proven otherwise it remains a valid argument.

Honoring Earl 34
06-21-2014, 07:53 PM
Until proven otherwise it remains a valid argument.

That goes for every rookie out there .

southcack homer
06-22-2014, 11:16 AM
So the Texans bought a racecar (for twenty something million) at an auction and discovered it needs a tune-up. The race team mechanic then discovers that the front wheel bearings need replacing, and some of you think the team owner says, nah, let's put the car in the Indy 500?

You have lost your mind, sir

southcack homer
06-22-2014, 11:25 AM
Funny story about Clowney from Dec, 2012 (http://www.postandcourier.com/article/20121219/PC20/121219297)

The part about him being a cheapskate

The Pencil Neck
06-22-2014, 02:22 PM
actually it does.

So. Let me get this straight. You're afraid that since he has some fast twitch muscle fibers that he's going to be inflexible like those darned inflexible gymnasts who are also generally considered to be fast twitch athletes?

Honoring Earl 34
06-22-2014, 02:28 PM
So. Let me get this straight. You're afraid that since he has some fast twitch muscle fibers that he's going to be inflexible like those darned inflexible gymnasts who are also generally considered to be fast twitch athletes?

I think he wanted a gymnast as a QB . :pop:

Playoffs
06-22-2014, 02:33 PM
this is why i wanted a QB with the first pick...

Yep.

We should've drafted Bridgewater.

Honoring Earl 34
06-22-2014, 03:13 PM
Yep.

We should've drafted Bridgewater.

Yup ... we dodged a bullet here .

"It wasn't a great day. There were things I didn't do very well, but that's part of it. It's not a two or four week process, it's a long process, a long journey."

- Blake Bortles on his poor day of practice on Thursday

By all accounts Blake Bortles struggled in the final OTA practice on Thursday, following up completing just 5-of-12 passes according to Ryan O'Halloran in Wednesday's practice.

"Average," Bortles said when asked about how he's throwing the football right now. "Definitely average."

Bortles has been up and down in OTA practices this season, which was to be expected. The Jaguars plan is to sit Bortles, for the whole season if necessary, and have him work out some of his mechanical flaws. Bortles has been humble about what he needs to work on and admitted publicly to the fact that things need to be worked on.

http://www.bigcatcountry.com/2014/6/20/5827078/jaguars-quotables-ryan-davis-draws-praise-blake-bortles-has-a-rough

Playoffs
06-22-2014, 03:40 PM
Yup ... we dodged a bullet here .

http://www.bigcatcountry.com/2014/6/20/5827078/jaguars-quotables-ryan-davis-draws-praise-blake-bortles-has-a-rough

Bortles will start.

You don't draft a QB Top 3 to bench him.

Besides, it's Chad Henne -- rated 42nd out of 42 QBs in 2013 (>25% snaps).

Honoring Earl 34
06-22-2014, 03:44 PM
Bortles will start.

You don't draft a QB Top 3 to bench him.

I'm just messin with the Bortles fan club . :voodoo:

CloakNNNdagger
06-22-2014, 03:50 PM
Yep.

We should've drafted Bridgewater.



Teddy Bridgewater plans to wear gloves the rest of his career (http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/24590165/teddy-bridgewater-plans-to-wear-gloves-the-rest-of-his-career)
By Ryan Wilson | CBSSports.com

Back in March, Teddy Bridgewater's pro day went so poorly that the quarterback once considered the best in his class was now being talked about as a second-round pick. Never mind that pro days aren't supposed to mean much; suddenly, they meant everything, and plenty of media draft experts scurried to readjust their rankings to reflect Bridgewater's struggles in shorts and a t-shirt.

The Vikings eventually drafted Bridgewater with the last pick in the first round, and he'll get every opportunity to start as a rookie. And when he takes the field you can be assured of one thing: He'll be wearing gloves, something he did during college when he completed 71 percent of his passes as a junior, but not during his pro day, when he completed just 57 of 65 attempts.

The decision to wear gloves fascinates the media, though Bridgewater doesn't think it's a big deal.

"Man, I don't think gloves have been much of a deal like this since Michael Jackson," Bridgewater told USAToday.com. "But to this day and for the rest of my career, I'm going to continue to wear gloves."

So why didn't he wear the glove during his pro day?

“I was training down in Florida,'' Bridgewater said back in March, via the Cleveland Plain Dealer. "It was 80-degree weather, sunny outside, so I was letting the ball spin without the glove and I just felt confident going into the pro day. I trust my training, I'm always confident in my training, so going into competition I trust preparation. So I went back to Louisville and the weather changed, it was a little cold outside, the ball gets a little rough and I still decided to go without the glove.”

Bridgewater will wear Nike gloves engineered specifically for quarterbacks.

It feels like the ball actually — like the texture of the ball," Bridgewater said. "I guess that's why it's a perfect match for when the ball is in my hand. When the ball is in my hand, it just sticks to my hand. It feels like I'm bare-handed, but I'm not."

Kurt Warner, who wore gloves for part of his career and had great success, told Bridgewater that it was important to stick with what made him successful.

"'Wearing gloves got you where you are to this day,'" Bridgewater recounetd Warner saying. "I'm just going to continue to do that."

http://cbssports.com/images/blogs/teddy-bridgewater-gloves-mj.jpg

Like his muscle/weight change did not have anything to do with his Pro Day flop. So now since Bridgewater's flowing locks have already been clipped, all anyone needs to do to return him to powerless and nonfunctional is to steal or switch his "lucky" gloves. I guess if that happens, in order to regain his mojo, Bridgewater can always ask David Carr to lease out a pair of his "magic" gloves for the season.:kitten:

Honoring Earl 34
06-22-2014, 04:08 PM
how will this fanbase react if bortles, manziel, and bridgewater actually become good to great quarterbacks and clowney becomes a bust?

:toropalm:

Who cares the right thing to do was taking Clowney .

CloakNNNdagger
06-22-2014, 04:10 PM
how will this fanbase react if bortles, manziel, and bridgewater actually become good to great quarterbacks and clowney becomes a bust?



:toropalm:

The same way their own fan bases react if Bortles, Bridgewater and (when) Manziel becomes a bust.

Texian
06-22-2014, 04:18 PM
actually the right thing to do was to pick a quarterback with the highest grade considering its the most important position in the nfl and the fact that we had atrocious quarterback play our entire history as a franchise.

not to wait until the 4th round and end up picking a quarterback who despite being in his athletic prime years, is already balding.

Bob couldn't face the possibility of drafting another David Carr. Unfortunately you can't win, when you play scared. which leads to the first part of my signature ....

Wolf
06-22-2014, 04:19 PM
deal is we had too many holes to fill for just one draft.. if we drafted a QB and he busts.. it sets this franchise back again for many years. I have no problem with OB going with the "Uglies" right now.. good "uglies" can make a decent QB look great.. if Clowney can take the pressure off of Watt. it is a win-win. yes defense is boring but it does win games.

:swatter:

Honoring Earl 34
06-22-2014, 04:21 PM
actually the right thing to do was to pick a quarterback with the highest grade considering its the most important position in the nfl and the fact that we had atrocious quarterback play our entire history as a franchise.

not to wait until the 4th round and end up picking a quarterback who despite being in his athletic prime years, is already balding.

Not really that gets you Russell , Carr , Gabbert and Locker . If you were going to wash your car and asked your dad for some quarters and he said I only have three quarters but I'll give you three dollars are you taking the quarters because you need quarters ? You would but most wouldn't .

Honoring Earl 34
06-22-2014, 04:22 PM
Bob couldn't face the possibility of drafting another David Carr. Unfortunately you can't win, when you play scared. which leads to the first part of my signature ....

Carr was a better prospect than the 3 this year .

Wolf
06-22-2014, 04:33 PM
lets boomerang this back.. did clowney become a bust yet?

which of the 3 QB's are you thinking would be worthy of the #1 pick?(I really haven't followed any of your posts if you have mentioned it already)

Honoring Earl 34
06-22-2014, 04:36 PM
lol wut?

did manziel, bortles, bridgewater become busts already?

i love how players who have yet to play a single down is a bust in order to rationalize certain agendas.

like i said before, you only need one of those qbs to become good to great and for clowney to become average or below for it to be a failed pick.

what do you think has a higher chance of happening?

one of those early round qbs being good to great and clowney not living up to his #1 pick status or all first round qbs being total busts and clowney becoming a productive star?

I don't believe the Texans were offered a 3 for 1 pick to insure they hit on a QB therefore the smart pick was the best prospect . Your theory will be played out with Bortles because the Jags passed on better players to get their QB again .

dalemurphy
06-22-2014, 04:42 PM
how will this fanbase react if bortles, manziel, and bridgewater actually become good to great quarterbacks and clowney becomes a bust?

:toropalm:

You are talking about one draft pick. I could care less if the Texans 1st pick of the draft doesn't work out but they hit home runs on two mid round selections. Instead of obsessing over a single player, I would suggest watching how this roster comes together and judge draft and free agent decisions collectively. Regardless of Clowney's production (or lack of), regardless of how good/bad Bortles looks, the Texan organization should be heavily criticized if they have not solved their future at the QB position by 2015.

In other words, Bortles, Manziel, and Teddy could all be busts, Clowney could have 25 sacks in his first two seasons, but the Texans would deserve criticism if, by the end of 2015, they still don't have an answer at QB.

Similarly, I could care less if Bortles becomes an all-pro and Clowney flames out, if the Texans successfully build a strong roster and have found a good QB, then they should be congratulated for it.