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Playoffs
05-09-2014, 09:20 AM
Should probably spell his name correctly in title since he's a Texan now.

Jadeveon Clowney -- pronounced jə-DEH-vee-on

:logo:

Thorn
05-09-2014, 09:24 AM
Should probably spell his name correctly in title since he's a Texan now.

Jadeveon Clowney -- pronounced jə-DEH-vee-on

:logo:

Da Clown works for me.

xtruroyaltyx
05-09-2014, 09:26 AM
I don't think motivation is going to be an issue. For several reasons.

I think we're in for a treat with this defense next year. And all the pieces aren't even in place.

Cerberus
05-09-2014, 09:38 AM
Not necessarily. A player like Khalil Mack was a much "safer" pick at 1.1. I'm just glad they didn't settle for that.

Hmmmm, I don't know about that. I'm a Raider fan and Mack scares me coming from University of Buffalo. I hope Mayock and others are right about him, but I'm not sold on him yet, or at least until I see him play.

Clowney is a stud, congrats to the Texans and their fans.

BigBull17
05-09-2014, 09:52 AM
Hmmmm, I don't know about that. I'm a Raider fan and Mack scares me coming from University of Buffalo. I hope Mayock and others are right about him, but I'm not sold on him yet, or at least until I see him play.

Clowney is a stud, congrats to the Texans and their fans.

Didn't you know we got the ****tiest, laziest PoS in the draft?

BullNation4Life
05-09-2014, 09:56 AM
Da Clown works for me.

tell me, are you down with Da Clown?

http://i815.photobucket.com/albums/zz80/Teach3D/downwiththeClowney_zps3c71efba.jpg

Thorn
05-09-2014, 10:02 AM
tell me, are you down with Da Clown?

http://i815.photobucket.com/albums/zz80/Teach3D/downwiththeClowney_zps3c71efba.jpg

LOL. Works for me.

HOU-TEX
05-09-2014, 10:13 AM
I reckon my answer's obvious http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o127/ayzaiah_ice/thumbsupemo.gif

Now go to work!!

Honoring Earl 34
05-09-2014, 10:32 AM
I find it funny when folks call in and rip Clowney about his work ethic while they're at work . :gun:

CloakNNNdagger
05-09-2014, 10:46 AM
If the team is going to keep spending high picks on defense, might as well get Nix.

MCL tear doesn't bother me, pretty easy to come back from. Its not like losing a little speed would hurt his game.

Here is what I previously posted: First of all, it was NOT an MCL tear.


As far as Nix, no mention was made of which meniscus/menisci were torn. But, if accurate, some reports reveal that the surgery involved "repair" not "excision." Repair is a harder longer recovery. What bothers me the most about Nix is that he has been dealing with a chronic case of patellar tendonitis.......the predecessor of patellar tendon rupture, ala our own Cushing and Newton. Being a big man, the condition and potential of rupture is more concerning. If he does eventually rupture, expect a long recovery closer to Newton (who was rushed back and not given enough time to completely rehab)........and we know how that's turned out.

I like Nix. But with especially the chronic patellar tendonitis, there has to be an element of remaining guarded in this pick. As I've written before, he is a great player with great potential................for a stellar career.........or ongoing injury history...........only time will tell, and someone will take the chance for sure.

Thorn
05-09-2014, 10:49 AM
Here is what I previously posted: First of all, it was NOT an MCL tear.



I like Nix. But with especially the chronic patellar tendonitis, there has to be an element of remaining guarded in this pick. As I've written before, he is a great player with great potential................for a stellar career.........or ongoing injury history...........only time will tell, and someone will take the chance for sure.

We'll find out soon enough. After reading all the posts since yesterday, I'm starting to favor trading down and getting some extra picks anyway.

The Pencil Neck
05-09-2014, 10:52 AM
Before the draft I said that whoever we picked, I'd get behind.

I'm behind this pick. It's not my first or second choice but ultimately, it's all about strategy and building a great team.

This is almost a perfect spot for him. He's got JJ Watt in one ear, Brian Cushing in his other ear, Kollar screaming in his face, and Fitzgerald (his old S&C coach) kicking him in the rear.

It's going to be interesting to see what we're going to do on the other side from him. Are we going to nab someone like Skov for the middle and keep Reed at Sam? Is Reed moving to the Middle and Mercilus to Sam? I don't know.

But from a strategery standpoint, I'm hoping we're going to give RAC what he needs to be successful.

PapaL
05-09-2014, 11:05 AM
Here is what I previously posted: First of all, it was NOT an MCL tear.



I like Nix. But with especially the chronic patellar tendonitis, there has to be an element of remaining guarded in this pick. As I've written before, he is a great player with great potential................for a stellar career.........or ongoing injury history...........only time will tell, and someone will take the chance for sure.

This changes my view on him. Thought it was a simple MCL. Tuitt and a NT later sounds like a good option if trade isn't available.

xtruroyaltyx
05-09-2014, 11:07 AM
He also has Joesph and Swearinger here and Swearinger will get on his ass if he loafs, which he's not going to do and didn't do in College anyways.

I think we'll see an extra motivated Clowney here in Houston.

Errant Hothy
05-09-2014, 11:17 AM
Before the draft I said that whoever we picked, I'd get behind.

I'm behind this pick. It's not my first or second choice but ultimately, it's all about strategy and building a great team.

This is almost a perfect spot for him. He's got JJ Watt in one ear, Brian Cushing in his other ear, Kollar screaming in his face, and Fitzgerald (his old S&C coach) kicking him in the rear.

It's going to be interesting to see what we're going to do on the other side from him. Are we going to nab someone like Skov for the middle and keep Reed at Sam? Is Reed moving to the Middle and Mercilus to Sam? I don't know.

But from a strategery standpoint, I'm hoping we're going to give RAC what he needs to be successful.

Don't forget Vrabel with all the talk of Clowney starting out as an OLB.

thunderkyss
05-09-2014, 11:21 AM
This is almost a perfect spot for him. He's got JJ Watt in one ear, Brian Cushing in his other ear, Kollar screaming in his face, and Fitzgerald (his old S&C coach) kicking him in the rear.


I'm not even going to worry about it. He'll never shake it. There's always going to be somebody who wanted Manziel, Bortles, or Bridgewater who is going to see JD not run a play down on the other side of the field & blow it out of proportion.

If he doesn't average a sack a game.... he's lazy.

The Pencil Neck
05-09-2014, 11:26 AM
If he doesn't average a sack a game.... he's lazy.

His azz better be getting me 2 sacks a game.

:swatter:

PHILLYTEXANFAN
05-09-2014, 11:26 AM
I'm not even going to worry about it. He'll never shake it. There's always going to be somebody who wanted Manziel, Bortles, or Bridgewater who is going to see JD not run a play down on the other side of the field & blow it out of proportion.

If he doesn't average a sack a game.... he's lazy.

Post of the day, if not lifetime.

Number19
05-09-2014, 11:27 AM
I'm good with Clowney, he was my second choice behind Mack. The one thing I don't like is that now we have a 1st round draft choice, who is only going into his third season, second as a starter, who will now become a situational rusher. He'll be depth at the position, but maybe we should try and trade him.

VTexan
05-09-2014, 11:37 AM
crazy that the number one draft pick overall and we only have 14 pages. all those bandwagoners from 2012 already leave? lol

HuttoKarl
05-09-2014, 11:54 AM
crazy that the number one draft pick overall and we only have 14 pages. all those bandwagoners from 2012 already leave? lol

It's probably because it was pretty much a given. I'm excited to see how he learns the game playing next to JJ Watt. I really hope he learns work ethic from playing next to JJ Watt.

It's the smart pick...the only pick we should have made.

mussop
05-09-2014, 12:22 PM
His azz better be getting me 2 sacks a game.

:swatter:

Dam you don't want much do you? 32 sacks??? :)

HJam72
05-09-2014, 12:23 PM
OK, if gets 32 sacks this year, I will probly accept him.

The Pencil Neck
05-09-2014, 12:25 PM
Dam you don't want much do you? 32 sacks??? :)

Well. 30. He'll be able to sit out the last game because we're resting our starters.

:dancer:

Thorn
05-09-2014, 12:40 PM
meh.....he'll have to get 30 sacks in one game to impress me.

CretorFrigg
05-09-2014, 01:00 PM
crazy that the number one draft pick overall and we only have 14 pages. all those bandwagoners from 2012 already leave? lol

It's because most predicted this pick. We've been beating this dead horse for months now.

76Texan
05-09-2014, 01:03 PM
As a divisional fan, I'm saying down, because I don't buy his hype. Bad year, 3 sacks, but because he has a great pro day he's a killer? Mike Mamula anyone? I don't think I can ever remember a player making more off one play than he's made off that play vs Michigan.

If you could have fleeced someone out of 2 1sts and a 3rd, I'd have done that in your team's shoes. More holes to fill that those picks could have brought. Buffalo certainly suggests there were buyers in the top end of the draft and they paid their 2015 1st and this year's 4th to go from 9 to 4. That's a hell of a price.

If he's not as good as you think, why would anybody wants to part with two firsts and a third For him?

Aren't you contradicting yourself? :)

Allstar
05-09-2014, 01:10 PM
OK, if gets 32 sacks this year, I will probly accept him.

Not me, he would still have to prove he's not a 1-year wonder

klockWork
05-09-2014, 01:11 PM
So is it Ja-dev-eon or Ja-dave-on?

Marshall
05-09-2014, 01:13 PM
not moving up 1 spot proves BOB does not want Teddy B


it might even prove he gets 1 free year to rebuild and re tool this team that would be proven fact if we take our QB in the 3rd round

I believe Bridgewater would have been a mediocre QB in this system when he was able to play at all. We already have that.

Best PLAYER Available beats Best QB Available when your job is on the line.

toronto
05-09-2014, 01:15 PM
If he's not as good as you think, why would anybody wants to part with two firsts and a third For him?

Aren't you contradicting yourself? :)

Kinda but not really. I am not in the heads of NFL GMs. I saw what Buffalo paid to move up to 4 and it make me wonder what the Texans asked for the pick.

The Pencil Neck
05-09-2014, 01:18 PM
Kinda but not really. I am not in the heads of NFL GMs. I saw what Buffalo paid to move up to 4 and it make me wonder what the Texans asked for the pick.

They've been very clear that they really liked the #1 spot and Clowney and that to move out of the #1 spot, someone was going to have to get crazy.

Exascor
05-09-2014, 01:26 PM
So is it Ja-dev-eon or Ja-dave-on?

According to him, it's Ja-dev-eon.

Marshall
05-09-2014, 01:30 PM
Or it means that Rick Smith got shafted.

There are multiple players available with the 2-1 pick. There was nothing special about Bridgewater which called for moving up:

QB -
1. Derek Carr
2. Tom Savage

DT -

1. Timmy Jernigan
2. Louis Nix
3. Ra'Shead Hagaman

DE - Why not go for the pair?

1. Kony Ealy
2. Trent Murphy
3. Scott Crichton

OG

1. Xavier Su'a-Filo

TE

1. Jace Amaro

WR

1. Marquise Lee

C

1. Marcus Martin

OT

1. Cyrus Koujando

These are ONLY the guys within the top 40 predraft. There are others which are just outside which are also arguably better than Bridgewater for this system.

Marshall
05-09-2014, 01:39 PM
Why does everyone think he's a defensive lineman? He won't be on the line in the base defense. By title he'll be an olb.

If we are truly going to a hybrid system utilizing elements of both base defenses and the variations of those, you need players who can adjust to different roles and responsibilities. This is one thing we will go for, the ability to play in multiple systems either as a down lineman or as a linebacker. The linemen should be able to succeed whether they line up at 0, 1, 2, 3 4, or 5. Keep the Offenses guessing and confuse them.

I like the flexibility on both offense and defense. But we need SMART players to do this.

Marshall
05-09-2014, 01:45 PM
Clowney is a top 10 pick, but he's not what we need if we honestly want to talk about being a playoff team. We needed to swing for the fences and take Manziel. We didn't.

I'm not looking forward to that week 11 @ Cleveland matchup...

I like your baseball analogy. Swinging for the fences usually results in just another good looking strikeout. In fact, far more frequently than if they just play within themselves.

HOU-TEX
05-09-2014, 01:46 PM
There are multiple players available with the 2-1 pick. There was nothing special about Bridgewater which called for moving up:

QB -
1. Derek Carr
2. Tom Savage

DT -

1. Timmy Jernigan
2. Louis Nix
3. Ra'Shead Hagaman

DE - Why not go for the pair?

1. Kony Ealy
2. Trent Murphy
3. Scott Crichton

OG

1. Xavier Su'a-Filo

TE

1. Jace Amaro

WR

1. Marquise Lee

C

1. Marcus Martin

OT

1. Cyrus Koujando

These are ONLY the guys within the top 40 predraft. There are others which are just outside which are also arguably better than Bridgewater for this system.

I think I have a better chance getting drafted by the Texans than Carr. Ain't happening.

Dunno who's top 40 you're referring to, but Savage is not a 2nd rounder, imo. Garappolo, Mettenberger and Carr are the only QB's I have left in the top 50

I'd add Tuitt atop of my DE list. Nix and Jernigan as NTs

I'd also add Morgan Moses, Joel Bitonio and maybe even Newhort as OTs in the 2nd

Marshall
05-09-2014, 01:47 PM
Wow!!! Lotsa nut swingers on here. I hope Clowney is the next LT, I just don't believe it. I'll pull for Clowney but I don't like the draft choice.

I hear ya' EOR...

CloakNNNdagger
05-09-2014, 01:50 PM
The answer confirmed by Smith.

Jadeveon Clowney to be used as OLB (http://www.houstontexans.com/news/article-2/Jadeveon-Clowney-to-be-used-as-OLB/b939d5d8-6a14-4b1b-9143-f079976f811d)

Jadeveon Clowney could start out as an outside linebacker, according to general manager and executive vice president Rick Smith. Selected first overall in Thursday's draft, Clowney is expected to be an immediate contributor to the Texans defense.

“I fully expect that he will be an outside linebacker initially," Smith said in a press conference Thursday night. "He’ll start in a two-point stance, but anytime we go into any kind of package, whether it’s a third down package or a packaged predicated on personnel, down and distance, all those things give Romeo (Crennel) the ability to have him put his hand in the dirt and go get the passer.”

At his April Pro Day, Clowney ran through a series of drills for defensive linemen. Towards the end of his workout, Texans defensive coordinator Romeo Crennel put Clowney through drills designed for linebackers and appeared pleased with what he saw.

Clowney’s athleticm and speed offer the Texans versatility as does playing alongside leaders like J.J. Watt and Brian Cushing. The former South Carolina defensive end could be used to either drop back in coverage or rush the passer, according to Smith.

“He’s athletic enough to do all that stuff," Smith said. "The thing that they have to do also is set the edge in the run game. He is certainly capable and athletic and strong enough to do that and set the edge in the run game. Obviously his pass rushing ability speaks for itself

Double Barrel
05-09-2014, 02:00 PM
:thumbup

I look forward to a QB-eatin' MONSTER defense! :texflag:

Swearinger
05-09-2014, 02:22 PM
JD is going to be so nasty with this defense. Really looking forward to seeing him grow in Crennel's system and with the mentors he'll have on that defense. It's a great situation for him. The sky's the limit for him with this organization and the supporting cast.

El Tejano
05-09-2014, 02:28 PM
I get excited with Clowney because it makes me think of what could've been back in the 2010/2011 season. Back when Mario was learning to play OLB and Watt was a young rookie. That first 5 games where they were dominating and Mario already had like 5 sacks on the season and would've had more if they counted a couple of sacks he got flagged on against Pittsburgh while he was murdering Roethlisberger. That year.

And I recall a particular game that year vs. the Saints. We were playing very well against a good QB but Mario just wasn't athletic enough to make up for when he fell for Brees' fakes.

But I look at Clowney and see a much more athletic DE who will make the transition. We also have a smart DC who is not just going to feed Clowney to the wolves. He's going to bring him along through his career.

Im extatic about this pick.

The Pencil Neck
05-09-2014, 02:31 PM
We should be having the press conference pretty soon.

He's landed and he's already at the Stadium.

xtruroyaltyx
05-09-2014, 02:35 PM
press conference at 3:30

Jadaveon said he spoke to Watt and Watt told him he's going to give him all the knowledgee he has to become a better player and he's going to mentor him and stay on him like a big brother.

Clowney said that he told Watt that he appreciates it and he's looking forward to it.

Double Barrel
05-09-2014, 02:59 PM
press conference at 3:30

Jadaveon said he spoke to Watt and Watt told him he's going to give him all the knowledgee he has to become a better player and he's going to mentor him and stay on him like a big brother.

Clowney said that he told Watt that he appreciates it and he's looking forward to it.

Music to my ears, man. They'll most likely give Watt a new contract and then have Clowney for at least 4-5 years. That could turn out to be a fierce partnership for years to come that instills dread into opposing teams when facing the Texans D. You can't double-team everyone.

Thorn
05-09-2014, 03:01 PM
Music to my ears, man. They'll most likely give Watt a new contract and then have Clowney for at least 4-5 years. That could turn out to be a fierce partnership for years to come that instills dread into opposing teams when facing the Texans D. You can't double-team everyone.

I think I'm sexually excited.

Double Barrel
05-09-2014, 03:32 PM
I think I'm sexually excited.

I think it's because you just came from this thread.... http://cdn.sheknows.com/articles/2014/02/Sarah_Duncan/Courtney-Act-To-Russia-With-Love.jpg

:D

xtruroyaltyx
05-09-2014, 03:33 PM
Press conference is on now.

ESAD2-14
05-09-2014, 03:34 PM
I think I'm sexually excited.

https://i.imgflip.com/7fb5k.jpg

Thorn
05-09-2014, 03:39 PM
DB is not my favorite poster anymore. :pissed:

xtruroyaltyx
05-09-2014, 03:42 PM
In two different conversations I've heard from Clowney, when people have asked him about individual stuff he has talked about how South Carolina went 11-2 and finished at #4 in the country which is the highest they finished in school history.

kingtexan
05-09-2014, 03:46 PM
Think the kid will be better than Williams and could be great. Really liked that right after he was picked, when being interviewed by Deon Sanders, he said it was time to go to work. We will see ...

HOU-TEX
05-09-2014, 03:56 PM
Fwiw

pds ‏@patdstat · 18m
"i am very healthy." on the rumors of clowney's bone spurs. #texans

deucetx
05-09-2014, 04:34 PM
Found it interesting when someone asked Smith how clowney effects the linebackers on roster he assumed they meant Reed and not Mercilus and then went on about how flexible Reed is. Are we back to Reed moving inside? Does seem they are thinking clowney and Mercilus outside but we'll see.

xtruroyaltyx
05-09-2014, 04:40 PM
Does seem they are thinking clowney and Mercilus outside but we'll see.

I hope not and I have listened to them talk a lot and I don't get that vibe.

Rick Smith said that he's not going to worry where those guys are going to play. He said Crennel is far more creative than he is with that stuff.

But I don't see how we could start Clowney and Mercilus. Both of them are primarliy pass rushers and both are better suited for the weak side where they can rush the QB most times.

At least one of the OLB's should be more of a strong side guy who can drop with some regularity.

And Mercilus isn't even good. He needs to be on the bench anyways. Reed is a limited player as well.

But I guess we'll see what they do.

michaelm
05-09-2014, 04:43 PM
Clowney is taking #90.

infantrycak
05-09-2014, 05:21 PM
Fwiw

Not worth much since the bone spurs aren't a rumor. Hope this isn't a sign of an unwillingness to have the surgery.

Thorn
05-09-2014, 05:23 PM
I like this quote from Clowney:

"I talked to J.J. Watt," Clowney said. "He's like, 'Man I'm glad you're being a part of the Houston Texans, I'm ready to show you around.' He's gonna be like a leader to me, I'm gonna follow him and get ready to get going."

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000348830/article/texans-jadeveon-clowney-ready-to-follow-jj-watt

Thorn
05-09-2014, 06:01 PM
hey! Where's our second round thread???

thunderkyss
05-09-2014, 06:39 PM
Kinda but not really. I am not in the heads of NFL GMs. I saw what Buffalo paid to move up to 4 and it make me wonder what the Texans asked for the pick.

Cleveland got nothing to move down five spots in this draft. They got nothing this year. All they got from Buffalo was next year's first & fourth.

No way that was going to fly for the first overall, to move up eight spots, not even close.

Again, Cleveland will not see any benefit from that trade until next year.

thunderkyss
05-09-2014, 06:53 PM
Wrong thread

toronto
05-09-2014, 08:41 PM
Cleveland got nothing to move down five spots in this draft. They got nothing this year. All they got from Buffalo was next year's first & fourth.

No way that was going to fly for the first overall, to move up eight spots, not even close.

Again, Cleveland will not see any benefit from that trade until next year.

You don't think next year's 1st and this year's 4th is steep for moving up 5 spots?

I suspect the Texans had no intention of ever trading this pick.

Big Lou
05-09-2014, 09:57 PM
More likely Mercilus opposite Clowney, and Reed to the inside.........unless anything better comes up.

I'm anxious to see Reed move inside. He disappeared on the outside last year, not sure he will make the transition but what can it hurt.

TEXANRED
05-09-2014, 10:26 PM
Anybody else notice his initials are JC?

Lucky
05-09-2014, 10:27 PM
Anybody else notice his initials are JC?
He goes by JD.

PapaL
05-09-2014, 10:37 PM
http://walterfootball.com/scoutingreport2014jclowney.php

Strengths:
One of the best size, speed, athletes in NFL Draft history
Extremely fast, runs as fast most wide receivers
Elite speed for an edge rusher
Intimidates offensive players and game plans
Able to beat other elite players
Dominant size
Raw, natural power
Explosion
Dominant pass-rusher
Commands double-teams
Can beat double-teams
Very disruptive
Excellent & underrated run-defender
Strong at the point of attack
Repertoire of moves
Plays his best in clutch time
Strives to be game changer
Agility to sink his hips/shoulder
Active hands
Able to use hands and feet at same time
Has the strength to anchor and hold his ground vs. the run
Adept at forcing fumbles
Lightning get off
Consistent source of pass pressure
Strong at shedding blocks
Ability to bull rush heavy tackles and guards
Can take over games
Pursuit skills
Can rush from a variety of spots, including inside
Has the ability to drop in pass coverage as a 3-4 OLB
Good teammate
Should be able to produce quickly
Plug-and-play in any defense
Dominated college football's best conference
Tons of upside
Scheme versatile

Weaknesses:
Inconsistent motor
Took plays off, especially in 2012 season
Lackadaisical work ethic in conditioning
Can he handle the pressure?
How will he respond to money?

Player Comparison: Mario Williams. The closest thing to an edge rusher like Clowney to enter the NFL in the past decade is Williams. Like Clowney, Williams (6-6, 292) is a size-speed freak. Williams was the first-overall pick in the 2006 NFL Draft, and Clowney is the top player in his draft class as well. Williams has had four double-digit sack seasons in eight years. In the NFL, I think Clowney will be a better pass-rusher than Williams. Clowney is a better player entering the NFL than Williams was.

If you want some other comparisons, I think Clowney could also be compared to Julius Peppers. The veteran was an elite prospect coming out of North Carolina. There are also times where Clowney reminds me of watching old Lawrence Taylor highlights.

Vinny
05-10-2014, 12:06 AM
Anybody else notice his initials are JC?

as in Just been Clowned? Is that what the bullpen is going to chant next season?

infantrycak
05-10-2014, 04:49 AM
as in Just been Clowned? Is that what the bullpen is going to chant next season?

May not be family friendly:

http://ts2.mm.bing.net/th?id=HN.608042355647252737&pid=1.7

thunderkyss
05-10-2014, 05:03 AM
http://images.sodahead.com/polls/000159064/polls_0710126_clown_5758_771966_answer_7_xlarge.jp eg

welsh texan
05-10-2014, 05:22 AM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/psychoville/images/galleries/series_one/ep5_jelly2.jpg

TEXANRED
05-10-2014, 10:31 AM
http://i939.photobucket.com/albums/ad236/TEXANRED/icp_zpsab1cbb3f.jpg (http://s939.photobucket.com/user/TEXANRED/media/icp_zpsab1cbb3f.jpg.html)

Playoffs
05-10-2014, 11:10 AM
http://ficcionbreve.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/payaso-de-miedo.jpg

Thorn
05-10-2014, 11:37 AM
http://i491.photobucket.com/albums/rr276/slugdrug/8140Evil-Clowns-Posters.jpg

76Texan
05-10-2014, 11:55 AM
Jadeveon Clowney vs 9 Teams 2011/2012: http://youtu.be/pylGjuI_82c

I use Chromecast to stream these youtube videos on TV, besides all the torrents.
It's a wonderful toy to help study all the prospects.

gafftop
05-10-2014, 03:56 PM
Down because I don't think JC will be better than three players or more we could have gotten. Really more of an indictment of GM Smith. The Texans needed so much more. I guess Rick is the reason the Texans are in this position to begin with.

infantrycak
05-10-2014, 08:22 PM
Down because I don't think JC will be better than three players or more we could have gotten. Really more of an indictment of GM Smith. The Texans needed so much more. I guess Rick is the reason the Texans are in this position to begin with.

And you know this from the wealth of historical examples of 1.1 pick trades? - or your ouija board?

Marshall
05-10-2014, 08:25 PM
http://i491.photobucket.com/albums/rr276/slugdrug/8140Evil-Clowns-Posters.jpg

I was never afraid of EVIL CLOWNS until my ex became one. YIKES!

drs23
05-11-2014, 11:49 AM
:thumbup

I look forward to a QB-eatin' MONSTER defense! :texflag:

Likewise, I'm sure.

As well as a stonewalling OL. I love the way this draft unfolded. Could certainly see the difference in player types and priorities this year as opposed to years past.

Go Texans!

GuerillaBlack
05-11-2014, 01:02 PM
wanted manziel but they made up for it by drafting the guy with the highest upside.

still unsure if he has fast twitch muscle fibers or if he's another athletic stiff like mario williams.

He is definitely not a stiff like Mario.

badboy
05-11-2014, 11:10 PM
On tonight's CBS local draft special, Clowney just said he has talked to Watt who told him he would help him out with everything in the NFL. Johnathan Joseph allegedly was "pulling for him for months and Clowney said he is looking forward to playing with Swearinger. They have some history but I missed what.

drs23
05-11-2014, 11:13 PM
On tonight's CBS local draft special, Clowney just said he has talked to Watt who told him he would help him out with everything in the NFL. Johnathan Joseph allegedly was "pulling for him for months and Clowney said he is looking forward to playing with Swearinger. They have some history but I missed what.

JJo and Clowney are from the same home town, Rock Hill, SC and of coarse, He and Swearinger were team mates at S Carolina.

thunderkyss
05-11-2014, 11:17 PM
JJo and Clowney are from the same home town, Rock Hill, SC and of coarse, He and Swearinger were team mates at S Carolina.

Jjo was also a Gamecock. 2004-2005

badboy
05-11-2014, 11:19 PM
JJo and Clowney are from the same home town, Rock Hill, SC and of coarse, He and Swearinger were team mates at S Carolina.Thanks, I thought that was what he said about swear but did not want to post. All these guys are big, strong and tough. Man if Brennan WIlliams can come back healthy, we have some hosses. Those are type guys I've wanted to go with Brown and the FB should have a long career if he can remain healthy.

The Pencil Neck
05-11-2014, 11:19 PM
On tonight's CBS local draft special, Clowney just said he has talked to Watt who told him he would help him out with everything in the NFL. Johnathan Joseph allegedly was "pulling for him for months and Clowney said he is looking forward to playing with Swearinger. They have some history but I missed what.

Clowney has three main connections on the Texans:

1. He played in with Swearinger. They know each other and I think they're friends. Swearinger was lobbying for Clowney before the draft.

2. JJo and Clowney are from the same place, Rock Hill. JJo was a very vocal proponent of Clowney's before the draft and I think they're friends, as well

3. Fitzgerald, our new S&C coach, was Clowney's S&C coach for some of the time he was there. They know each other and respect each other. I'm sure if Fitzgerald had any issues with Clowney and his work ethic, he would have made them known in private. I can't imagine him not being spoken to and I believe Rick Smith even mentioned talking to him.

badboy
05-11-2014, 11:21 PM
John Harris on Ballentine 6'3" 220 4.4 known for his work ethic and could surprise people.

badboy
05-11-2014, 11:25 PM
CBS showing Clowney coming into airport saying "I am glad you chose me. You don't know how it is. I was sitting there sweating."

Ric Smith "We just had to stay true to our board."

OB agreed and very supportive of Smith. "These guys are all Texans type players." I guess he meant going forward. I want to hear AJ's take.

badboy
05-11-2014, 11:29 PM
Clowney has three main connections on the Texans:

1. He played in with Swearinger. They know each other and I think they're friends. Swearinger was lobbying for Clowney before the draft.

2. JJo and Clowney are from the same place, Rock Hill. JJo was a very vocal proponent of Clowney's before the draft and I think they're friends, as well

3. Fitzgerald, our new S&C coach, was Clowney's S&C coach for some of the time he was there. They know each other and respect each other. I'm sure if Fitzgerald had any issues with Clowney and his work ethic, he would have made them known in private. I can't imagine him not being spoken to and I believe Rick Smith even mentioned talking to him.Good info and I agree, this would resolve some of my concerns. The kids has the talent and if he can just play hard he has my vote.

Ole Miss Texan
05-11-2014, 11:34 PM
Clowney has three main connections on the Texans:

1. He played in with Swearinger. They know each other and I think they're friends. Swearinger was lobbying for Clowney before the draft.

2. JJo and Clowney are from the same place, Rock Hill. JJo was a very vocal proponent of Clowney's before the draft and I think they're friends, as well

3. Fitzgerald, our new S&C coach, was Clowney's S&C coach for some of the time he was there. They know each other and respect each other. I'm sure if Fitzgerald had any issues with Clowney and his work ethic, he would have made them known in private. I can't imagine him not being spoken to and I believe Rick Smith even mentioned talking to him.

4. Lawing, our defensive quality control guy, his father was Clowney's defensive line coach during 2012. Another intimate connection

The Pencil Neck
05-11-2014, 11:35 PM
4. Lawing, our defensive quality control guy, his father was Clowney's defensive line coach during 2012. Another intimate connection

Excellent. Did not know that.

Playoffs
05-12-2014, 10:12 AM
Houston Texans ‏@HoustonTexans
Fan: “Be nice to my QB, Andrew Luck.”
JD: “Ain’t no way, man.”

http://www.houstontexans.com/tv-media/videos/Behind-the-Scenes-Clowney-in-NYC/59cb4949-38cf-4b79-847f-09cf8863d856

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BncQywAIMAAKnEM.jpg

xtruroyaltyx
05-12-2014, 10:18 AM
Oh they kept Coach Washington!!!


I figured they would since he's the guy that shows these rookies the city.

maddogmrb
05-12-2014, 02:20 PM
Quote:
Strengths:
One of the best size, speed, athletes in NFL Draft history
Extremely fast, runs as fast most wide receivers
Elite speed for an edge rusher
Intimidates offensive players and game plans
Able to beat other elite players
Dominant size
Raw, natural power
Explosion
Dominant pass-rusher
Commands double-teams
Can beat double-teams
Very disruptive
Excellent & underrated run-defender
Strong at the point of attack
Repertoire of moves
Plays his best in clutch time
Strives to be game changer
Agility to sink his hips/shoulder
Active hands
Able to use hands and feet at same time
Has the strength to anchor and hold his ground vs. the run
Adept at forcing fumbles
Lightning get off
Consistent source of pass pressure
Strong at shedding blocks
Ability to bull rush heavy tackles and guards
Can take over games
Pursuit skills
Can rush from a variety of spots, including inside
Has the ability to drop in pass coverage as a 3-4 OLB
Good teammate
Should be able to produce quickly
Plug-and-play in any defense
Dominated college football's best conference
Tons of upside
Scheme versatile

Weaknesses:
Inconsistent motor
Took plays off, especially in 2012 season
Lackadaisical work ethic in conditioning
Can he handle the pressure?
How will he respond to money?

Player Comparison: Mario Williams. The closest thing to an edge rusher like Clowney to enter the NFL in the past decade is Williams. Like Clowney, Williams (6-6, 292) is a size-speed freak. Williams was the first-overall pick in the 2006 NFL Draft, and Clowney is the top player in his draft class as well. Williams has had four double-digit sack seasons in eight years. In the NFL, I think Clowney will be a better pass-rusher than Williams. Clowney is a better player entering the NFL than Williams was.

If you want some other comparisons, I think Clowney could also be compared to Julius Peppers. The veteran was an elite prospect coming out of North Carolina. There are also times where Clowney reminds me of watching old Lawrence Taylor highlights.

Okay, so "Mr. Dominant Pass Rusher" and the 2nd coming of godzilla, Julius Peppers and Lawrence Taylor had only 3 sacks all of last year. Please explain this to me? If he is only 1/4 of "all that" he should have had 3 sacks in one half of at least one game ... not all year.

michaelm
05-12-2014, 02:44 PM
Quote:
Strengths:
One of the best size, speed, athletes in NFL Draft history
Extremely fast, runs as fast most wide receivers
Elite speed for an edge rusher
Intimidates offensive players and game plans
Able to beat other elite players
Dominant size
Raw, natural power
Explosion
Dominant pass-rusher
Commands double-teams
Can beat double-teams
Very disruptive
Excellent & underrated run-defender
Strong at the point of attack
Repertoire of moves
Plays his best in clutch time
Strives to be game changer
Agility to sink his hips/shoulder
Active hands
Able to use hands and feet at same time
Has the strength to anchor and hold his ground vs. the run
Adept at forcing fumbles
Lightning get off
Consistent source of pass pressure
Strong at shedding blocks
Ability to bull rush heavy tackles and guards
Can take over games
Pursuit skills
Can rush from a variety of spots, including inside
Has the ability to drop in pass coverage as a 3-4 OLB
Good teammate
Should be able to produce quickly
Plug-and-play in any defense
Dominated college football's best conference
Tons of upside
Scheme versatile

Weaknesses:
Inconsistent motor
Took plays off, especially in 2012 season
Lackadaisical work ethic in conditioning
Can he handle the pressure?
How will he respond to money?

Player Comparison: Mario Williams. The closest thing to an edge rusher like Clowney to enter the NFL in the past decade is Williams. Like Clowney, Williams (6-6, 292) is a size-speed freak. Williams was the first-overall pick in the 2006 NFL Draft, and Clowney is the top player in his draft class as well. Williams has had four double-digit sack seasons in eight years. In the NFL, I think Clowney will be a better pass-rusher than Williams. Clowney is a better player entering the NFL than Williams was.

If you want some other comparisons, I think Clowney could also be compared to Julius Peppers. The veteran was an elite prospect coming out of North Carolina. There are also times where Clowney reminds me of watching old Lawrence Taylor highlights.

Okay, so "Mr. Dominant Pass Rusher" and the 2nd coming of godzilla, Julius Peppers and Lawrence Taylor had only 3 sacks all of last year. Please explain this to me? If he is only 1/4 of "all that" he should have had 3 sacks in one half of at least one game ... not all year.


There are about a thousand pages of this regurgitation in the Draft talk section. Any question you could conceivably ask has been asked a hundred times before, and answered in a hundred different ways.

mussop
05-12-2014, 02:45 PM
Quote:
Strengths:
One of the best size, speed, athletes in NFL Draft history
Extremely fast, runs as fast most wide receivers
Elite speed for an edge rusher
Intimidates offensive players and game plans
Able to beat other elite players
Dominant size
Raw, natural power
Explosion
Dominant pass-rusher
Commands double-teams
Can beat double-teams
Very disruptive
Excellent & underrated run-defender
Strong at the point of attack
Repertoire of moves
Plays his best in clutch time
Strives to be game changer
Agility to sink his hips/shoulder
Active hands
Able to use hands and feet at same time
Has the strength to anchor and hold his ground vs. the run
Adept at forcing fumbles
Lightning get off
Consistent source of pass pressure
Strong at shedding blocks
Ability to bull rush heavy tackles and guards
Can take over games
Pursuit skills
Can rush from a variety of spots, including inside
Has the ability to drop in pass coverage as a 3-4 OLB
Good teammate
Should be able to produce quickly
Plug-and-play in any defense
Dominated college football's best conference
Tons of upside
Scheme versatile

Weaknesses:
Inconsistent motor
Took plays off, especially in 2012 season
Lackadaisical work ethic in conditioning
Can he handle the pressure?
How will he respond to money?

Player Comparison: Mario Williams. The closest thing to an edge rusher like Clowney to enter the NFL in the past decade is Williams. Like Clowney, Williams (6-6, 292) is a size-speed freak. Williams was the first-overall pick in the 2006 NFL Draft, and Clowney is the top player in his draft class as well. Williams has had four double-digit sack seasons in eight years. In the NFL, I think Clowney will be a better pass-rusher than Williams. Clowney is a better player entering the NFL than Williams was.

If you want some other comparisons, I think Clowney could also be compared to Julius Peppers. The veteran was an elite prospect coming out of North Carolina. There are also times where Clowney reminds me of watching old Lawrence Taylor highlights.

Okay, so "Mr. Dominant Pass Rusher" and the 2nd coming of godzilla, Julius Peppers and Lawrence Taylor had only 3 sacks all of last year. Please explain this to me? If he is only 1/4 of "all that" he should have had 3 sacks in one half of at least one game ... not all year.

There's only five million responses referencing the red on this forum. Instead of bringing this burned out subject up for the eight billion time, why don't you read through the Clowney threads and get caught up??

And seriously what does it matter now? He's a Texan, deal with it!

maddogmrb
05-12-2014, 03:10 PM
michaelm and mussop ... sorry you got your panties in a wad but, I have been thru the posts and I didn't see where anyone was concerned about his LACK of production. Everyone talks about his motivation and work ethic but not lack of production.

I hope he becomes great ... I'm just concerned that he's not worthy of the #1 overall pick. I would have traded down if a decent offer was there.

michaelm
05-12-2014, 03:14 PM
michaelm and mussop ... sorry you got your panties in a wad but, I have been thru the posts and I didn't see where anyone was concerned about his LACK of production. Everyone talks about his motivation and work ethic but not lack of production.

I hope he becomes great ... I'm just concerned that he's not worthy of the #1 overall pick. I would have traded down if a decent offer was there.

No worries, but the lack of production topic was covered just as extensively as every other Clowney related topic.

pirbroke
05-12-2014, 03:16 PM
You know, it would be hard to resist putting a play or two for Clowney on offense, say a TE.

The Pencil Neck
05-12-2014, 03:18 PM
michaelm and mussop ... sorry you got your panties in a wad but, I have been thru the posts and I didn't see where anyone was concerned about his LACK of production. Everyone talks about his motivation and work ethic but not lack of production.

I hope he becomes great ... I'm just concerned that he's not worthy of the #1 overall pick. I would have traded down if a decent offer was there.

I don't know what thread you were reading, man. His low production was a big talking point against him. It was something I really didn't like because it seemed that he shut it down this year knowing that he was going to be a top draft pick whatever he did, and I didn't like that.

However, there are other LBs who've had a sharp decline in their sack totals the last year in college who've come in and done really well. Willie McGinnest was one who went from double digit sacks to just 3-4 his senior year. Granted, he wasn't a sack monster except in the playoffs but he was a very good OLB.

I was initially against him because of his motor and because I felt he shut it down that last year. Coach Spurrier called him out a couple of times about it during the season. And when I watched the tape, I saw a lot of plays where I felt like he could have put more effort into it.

BUT.

Despite all that, every game, he was able to pick his spots and just dominate when he wanted to. He was able to totally disrupt plays, make great TFLs in the run game, and make the offense's life hell.

So I eventually warmed up to him.

However, all of that was in the thread on him. Not THIS thread. But the thread that is devoted to him before the draft.

maddogmrb
05-12-2014, 03:21 PM
Despite all that, every game, he was able to pick his spots and just dominate when he wanted to.

I don't call 3 sacks all year "dominating when he wanted to".

Anyways, hope he becomes great.

xtruroyaltyx
05-12-2014, 03:25 PM
A lot of you have probably seen this, but this is a fun watch:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2cpIkjW-CY4

Clowney vs. Lewan

Playoffs
05-12-2014, 03:26 PM
Fallon runs a 6.9 40 yard dash.

Jadeveon Clowney does Jimmy Fallon, shows why he’s tough to hate (http://garnetandcocky.com/2014/05/08/jadeveon-clowney-jimmy-fallon-shows-hes-tough-hate/)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=utSc_iN0z5U

Twitter generally loved the appearance:

I know I'm a Clemson student, but I'm not going to lie, Clowney seems like one cool dude.
— Cody Key (@Cody_Key) May 8, 2014

Clowney's buying his mom a house. I respect that. She took care of you so take care of her.

— piper chapman. (@_KAYseClosed) May 8, 2014

Clowney with the "Yes, sirs." That's right! We raise our boys right here in the South! #FallonTonight

— Taylor (@tayrhodes) May 8, 2014

Clowney on the late night show with Fallon – loved it! Go Gamecocks! #CLOWNEYCOMIN #FallonTonight

— Devon Page (@paged417) May 8, 2014

Jadeveon Clowney is super humble. Stay like that for as long as you can my dude, bc starting tomorrow your life is gonna change. Good luck.

— L e x ✨ (@itslexielou) May 8, 2014

Ever since Clowney realized he is about to rich as hell, he is always so light hearted and fun and comical
— Brandon Turner (@el_Chosen_one) May 8, 2014

The Pencil Neck
05-12-2014, 03:28 PM
I don't call 3 sacks all year "dominating when he wanted to".

Anyways, hope he becomes great.

Splitting double-teams and tackling runners as soon as they get the football can be pretty dominating.

IDEXAN
05-12-2014, 03:31 PM
A panel of 21 scouts with national orientation made it clear how they value South Carolina defensive end Jadeveon Clowney in a Journal Sentinel pool asking who was the best player in the draft.

Clowney received 14 votes, far ahead of Buffalo linebacker Khalil Mack, Auburn tackle Greg Robinson and Clemson wide receiver Sammy Watkins, each of whom got two votes, and Texas A&M tackle Jake Matthews, who had one.

"He's a once-in-a-decade type pure talent," said Thomas Dimitroff, general manager of the Atlanta Falcons. "A lot of us, when we first started hearing that he was one of the best to come along in a long time or ever, were very skeptical. But then when you start watching him you're really back on your heels as far as how much pure talent he does possess."

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/boom-or-bust-backdrop-complicates-defensive-line-picks-b99262354z1-258030941.html#ixzz31XFUOHa3
*****

maddogmrb
05-12-2014, 03:35 PM
Splitting double-teams and tackling runners as soon as they get the football can be pretty dominating.

Okay, I agree with that ... in college. If he doesn't have a motor at least 50% of Watt, how successful will he be splitting pro double teams and tackling runners as soon as they get the football?

So, you are saying he only "chose" to turn on his pass rush enough times to get 3 whopping sacks last year? By most people's standards ... 3 sacks by a "dominating" pass rusher = fail.

xtruroyaltyx
05-12-2014, 03:44 PM
I've been watching a bunch of film on all these prospects including Clowney, and the taking plays off thing is overblown.

I do wish he had that JJ Watt level of intensity, but I did notice that SC had him playing different ways from down to down.

Some times it looks like he was able to just get up field any way he could...Other times it looks like they wanted him setting the edge and not getting up field. I was also surprised in one game I watched where he dropped back more than I expected. He played standing up a few times as well.

But yeah....His effort is not something I'm worried about at all really. I think he's going to be a beast personally.

The Pencil Neck
05-12-2014, 03:45 PM
Okay, I agree with that ... in college. If he doesn't have a motor at least 50% of Watt, how successful will he be splitting pro double teams and tackling runners as soon as they get the football?

So, you are saying he only "chose" to turn on his pass rush enough times to get 3 whopping sacks last year? By most people's standards ... 3 sacks by a "dominating" pass rusher = fail.

If you take a look at the end of that Michigan game that someone posted a link to, you'll see that his team ended up winning because of him. He demolished a running play and forced a fumble and recovered the fumble. They scored after that and then when Michigan was driving, he knifed in and shut down another play with almost the same consequences. And on the hail mary on the last play of the game, Michigan blocked him with 3 people.

The early part of that game, I think he could have played with more intensity. But... he did turn it on in the end. And he didn't get any sacks.

Now.

You bring him into Houston and surround him with Watt and Cushing, Kollar and his S&C coach from when he WAS playing with high intensity, and I think/hope we're going to get the Clowney from 2 years ago, the Clowney who did not have "motor" issues and the Clowney who was an obvious #1 pick.

But like I said, this has been discussed ad nauseum in another thread.

WolverineFan
05-12-2014, 03:57 PM
If you take a look at the end of that Michigan game that someone posted a link to, you'll see that his team ended up winning because of him. He demolished a running play and forced a fumble and recovered the fumble. They scored after that and then when Michigan was driving, he knifed in and shut down another play with almost the same consequences. And on the hail mary on the last play of the game, Michigan blocked him with 3 people.

The early part of that game, I think he could have played with more intensity. But... he did turn it on in the end. And he didn't get any sacks.


To be quite honest (and I've stated this many times before) "The Hit" was a completely overrated play. Michigan's idiot OC decided to zone block Clowney 1-on-1 with a backup walk-on TE, who had an impossible angle to make for the block. Clowney ran right by him and destroyed the poor RB, but it was a play that any player worth his salt should make.

Now the other play was legit and, while Lewan more than held his own against Clowney, he also got away with quite a few holds.

xtruroyaltyx
05-12-2014, 04:02 PM
To be quite honest (and I've stated this many times before) "The Hit" was a completely overrated play. Michigan's idiot OC decided to zone block Clowney 1-on-1 with a backup walk-on TE, who had an impossible angle to make for the block. Clowney ran right by him and destroyed the poor RB, but it was a play that any player worth his salt should make.

Now the other play was legit and, while Lewan more than held his own against Clowney, he also got away with quite a few holds.

Every player doesn't come off the ball and get that much explosion with that short of a distance.

Looking at several of Clowney's games it appears that inside move is his favorite and he's made several TFL like that.

Also, look at the play again. The TE never really tried to block Clowney. He just stuck a feeler out there and went to the next level. The right guard pulled and to me it looked like he was going to try to kick Clowney out, but Clowney read it to fast and was far too explosive/quick getting up field getting up field.

The players helmet popping off and the ball coming loose added emphasis and a wow highlight factor to the play, but I wouldn't take away anything Clowney did there by stating it was a routine play because it wasn't.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gC44nP7ClxM

Go to about the 45 second mark and you can see that the TE nor LT (Lewan) try to block Clowney. Then you see the RG pull and attempt to block him but he just can't get there. Lewan said that Clowney wasn't his guy on that play.

Also could be a mental error on someone's part. But regardless, the play was still impressive by Clowney.

76Texan
05-12-2014, 05:09 PM
I said last year before half the season was over that it will be something to watch if Clowney line up with Watt.
Little did I know that I was gonna get my wish.
Guess I jinxed the Texans, LOL!

Honoring Earl 34
05-12-2014, 05:27 PM
I said last year before half the season was over that it will be something to watch if Clowney line up with Watt.
Little did I know that I was gonna get my wish.
Guess I jinxed the Texans, LOL!

Last year Skip Bayless declared Clowney the best pass rusher on the planet , we'll see .

WolverineFan
05-12-2014, 05:29 PM
Every player doesn't come off the ball and get that much explosion with that short of a distance.

Looking at several of Clowney's games it appears that inside move is his favorite and he's made several TFL like that.

Also, look at the play again. The TE never really tried to block Clowney. He just stuck a feeler out there and went to the next level. The right guard pulled and to me it looked like he was going to try to kick Clowney out, but Clowney read it to fast and was far too explosive/quick getting up field getting up field.

The players helmet popping off and the ball coming loose added emphasis and a wow highlight factor to the play, but I wouldn't take away anything Clowney did there by stating it was a routine play because it wasn't.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gC44nP7ClxM

Go to about the 45 second mark and you can see that the TE nor LT (Lewan) try to block Clowney. Then you see the RG pull and attempt to block him but he just can't get there. Lewan said that Clowney wasn't his guy on that play.

Also could be a mental error on someone's part. But regardless, the play was still impressive by Clowney.

I'm not saying that the play was not impressive or that his get off is not explosive. I'm talking about how Michigan left him completely unblocked while running right at him. The OC said after the game that the TE was supposed to block him. He didn't.

My point was that play basically made him famous and he was unblocked. It's not like he destroyed a double team and blew up Adrian Peterson. He was unblocked and they ran right at him with a 170 lb RB. Of course the guy got destroyed.

WolverineFan
05-12-2014, 05:32 PM
Last year Skip Bayless declared Clowney the best pass rusher on the planet , we'll see .

Skip also said that he was a better pass rusher as a freshman than any player currently in the NFL.

He also said that if we didn't take Manziel #1 then O'Brien should be fired on the spot.

Playoffs
05-12-2014, 05:54 PM
Last year Skip Bayless declared Clowney the best pass rusher on the planet , we'll see .

Skip also said that he was a better pass rusher as a freshman than any player currently in the NFL.

He also said that if we didn't take Manziel #1 then O'Brien should be fired on the spot.

Skippy Bayless will soon declare that Johnny Football is the best pass rusher and QB on the planet. -- sources

Honoring Earl 34
05-12-2014, 06:54 PM
Skip also said that he was a better pass rusher as a freshman than any player currently in the NFL.

He also said that if we didn't take Manziel #1 then O'Brien should be fired on the spot.

Skippy Bayless will soon declare that Johnny Football is the best pass rusher and QB on the planet. -- sources

I was saying Clowney gets to be on the same team with the real deal . We'll see if JD can measure up .

cstyle42
05-12-2014, 07:55 PM
I was saying Clowney gets to be on the same team with the real deal . We'll see if JD can measure up .

Watt is great most likely the best defensive player in the league but we were 2-14 last year too so I hope Clowney and Watt can just beast together to the point it makes the team as a whole better.

Bulls on Parade
05-12-2014, 08:10 PM
Watt is great most likely the best defensive player in the league but we were 2-14 last year too so I hope Clowney and Watt can just beast together to the point it makes the team as a whole better.
Our goal in 2014 should be dominating on defense. I'm going to feel upset every time this defense allows a Touchdown. We should have a highly ranked run defense, pass defense and forcing much more than 11 turnovers. Holding teams to 13 points or less per game is what I believe our defense is capable of. Forcing several three and outs. Our pass rush should become elite and one of the best in the game.

maddogmrb
05-12-2014, 08:59 PM
Last year Skip Bayless declared Clowney the best pass rusher on the planet , we'll see .

The "best pass rusher on the planet" only had 3 sacks last year ....

mussop
05-12-2014, 10:42 PM
The "best pass rusher on the planet" only had 3 sacks last year ....



:overreact:

I'm starting to think you don't like Clowney.

DocBar
05-13-2014, 04:52 AM
The "best pass rusher on the planet" only had 3 sacks last year ....I bet you're a climate change denier, too. :peek:

I didn't like the pick, but I'm 100% behind it until I see reason not to be. And that doesn't mean I expect to see JJ Watt out of him. I expect to see talent, effort and progression. He should be better by week 16 than he was in week 10, etc.

Marshall
05-13-2014, 05:51 AM
I bet you're a climate change denier, too. :peek:

I didn't like the pick, but I'm 100% behind it until I see reason not to be. And that doesn't mean I expect to see JJ Watt out of him. I expect to see talent, effort and progression. He should be better by week 16 than he was in week 10, etc.

The controversy isn't about the climate changing, it's about whether it's caused by mankind or natural variation AND whether we should give up our way of life in vain efforts to mitigate the changes. The left has a money-grubbing interest in climate alarmism. Once again, it's about taking YOUR money to "Solve" a problem which doesn't exist.

ps We started keeping records as we were coming out of a mini ice age in the middle ages. Is it any real surprise that the records show warming?

pirbroke
05-13-2014, 06:52 AM
Cool, Clowney is so awesome he controls the weather too

Lucky
05-13-2014, 07:22 AM
The controversy isn't about the climate changing...

You're in the wrong forum.

Click here (http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=23)

jradMIT
05-13-2014, 07:34 AM
The controversy isn't about the climate changing, it's about whether it's caused by mankind or natural variation AND whether we should give up our way of life in vain efforts to mitigate the changes. The left has a money-grubbing interest in climate alarmism. Once again, it's about taking YOUR money to "Solve" a problem which doesn't exist.

ps We started keeping records as we were coming out of a mini ice age in the middle ages. Is it any real surprise that the records show warming?

Come on now climate change is vastly above most people scientific understanding, and definitely not fodder for a sports forum.

tedr
05-13-2014, 08:27 AM
You're in the wrong forum.

Click here (http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=23)

I agree this is not the appropriate place to talk about climate change, but, unless I'm missing something, DocBar brought it up.

b0ng
05-13-2014, 08:59 AM
I agree this is not the appropriate place to talk about climate change, but, unless I'm missing something, DocBar brought it up.

Literally a one liner joke that didn't need a 2 paragraph breakdown full of political talking points.

If Clowney is even half the player he was hyped to be he's going to be a world beater. His highlight reels are something else, but I think it's legitimate to question the work ethic and motor he possesses.

BullNation4Life
05-13-2014, 09:34 AM
Last year Skip Bayless declared Clowney the best pass rusher on the planet , we'll see .

well like that limousine ridin, jet flyin, kiss stealin, wheelin, dealin son of a gun once said...

To be the man, you have to beat the man and as far as pass rushers go, JJ Watt is the man....

IDEXAN
05-13-2014, 10:17 AM
I'm going to mark this pick in. Some believe Khalil Mack will be the choice, but that doesn't make much sense, and it goes against what we reported in the NFL Draft Rumor Mill today. The Texans are unwilling to move down from No. 1 unless they receive a Robert Griffin-type package. That's why the Falcons stopped trying to obtain the top choice. General manager Rick Smith is throwing a ton of crap out there to generate interest for this selection, but only because he wants multiple future first-rounders. He knows how great Jadeveon Clowney can be, so he's only willing to part with him if he can get a ridiculous deal. But that's just not going to happen for a non-quarterback. Besides, Mack over Clowney? The Texans can't be that incompetent. A trusted source of ours actually laughed off speculation that Houston prefers Mack.

As for this actual grade, I'm not in love with this selection, but I don't know what else Houston could do. There's no sure-fire quarterback prospect, so that's not really an option. The Texans can't allow the greatest pass-rushing prospect in a very long time to slip through their fingers, so they shouldn't take minimal compensation for this pick. Clowney is not ideal for the 3-4, but then again, neither was Mario Williams, and he still played great in that scheme. If motivated, Clowney will be dominant.

Clowney's motivation is the big issue though. I don't trust him to stay clean. There are major questions about his work ethic and his entourage. Perhaps J.J. Watt can help him with the former, but Clowney could still get into trouble because of the people he hangs out with - especially in a city like Houston. Still though, it's a chance the Texans have to take because they don't have any other realistic options.
http://walterfootball.com/nfldraftgrades.php
******
In Walterfootball's post Draft analysis of the Texans' Clowney pick they end it with a provocative statement: Houston is a city where young JD could run into trouble because of the kind of people he might hang out with ? Bad influences in H-town, what's that about ?

Playoffs
05-13-2014, 10:30 AM
...Clowney could still get into trouble because of the people he hangs out with - especially in a city like Houston. Your author...

http://onwardstate.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/Screen-Shot-2013-11-04-at-2.57.21-AM.png

Who lives in freaking Philadelphia... especially a city like Philadelphia. :ahhaha:

2. St. Louis Rams: Greg Robinson, OT, Auburn: C Grade
I'm really not a big fan of this pick...

'Nuff said.

ObsiWan
05-13-2014, 10:40 AM
I was saying Clowney gets to be on the same team with the real deal . We'll see if JD can keep up .
Fixed it for ya.
I changed it because I think all the hoopla about Clowney will make J.J. take his game up to a whole 'nuther level.
I believe J.J. just has that kind of pride.
:swatter:

Bulls on Parade
05-13-2014, 10:53 AM
The "best pass rusher on the planet" only had 3 sacks last year ....
And yet I'm willing to bet he'll have 12.5 or more sacks as a rookie in the NFL in 2014. More than four times that amount. So what's the problem? People are too focused on sack numbers. How many times did he swat a pass down, make a tackle for a loss, or even command two and three blockers? And he was doing it playing on one good foot. I can't wait to see what he does in 2014 fully healthy and playing on a defense with tons of talent around him along with an excellent coaching staff.

This was Jadeveon Clowney's last college football game played... That Capitol One Bowl game

Nice tackle for a loss in the backfield
http://youtu.be/HtJ9sTQMgf8

Three pass deflections, one leading to an interception
http://youtu.be/yfOh1aKND50

He made a difference without racking up sacks in that game. He can disrupt the game in many ways.

Playoffs
05-13-2014, 10:59 AM
And yet I'm willing to bet he'll have 12.5 or more sacks as a rookie in the NFL in 2014...

I'll take the under on that bet.

Clowney has to beat OTs and Watt. Think this year is graduate school for him.

NastyNate
05-13-2014, 11:56 AM
I'll take the under on that bet.

Clowney has to beat OTs and Watt. Think this year is graduate school for him.

Same here. I'd wager around 6-7 sacks this year for Clowney. That's about the topout for rookie pass rushers.

maddogmrb
05-13-2014, 12:03 PM
:overreact:

I'm starting to think you don't like Clowney.

I hope he does great ... I just wouldn't have gambled a 1:1 on him.

Drafted him to pressure the QB .. he had 3 sacks his senior season.

Very questionable motor and drive.

Hangs with questionable people.

Too many flags for me to use my 1:1 on him.

I believe Rick Smith was too stubborn in wanting multiple #1's for the 1:1 and they painted themselves into a corner. If it doesn't work out, Rick Smith should be gone.

Hervoyel
05-13-2014, 12:54 PM
Skippy Bayless will soon declare that Johnny Football is the best pass rusher and QB on the planet. -- sources

If he isn't then Vince Young should be fired....... oh wait....

michaelm
05-13-2014, 01:19 PM
Fixed it for ya.
I changed it because I think all the hoopla about Clowney will make J.J. take his game up to a whole 'nuther level.
I believe J.J. just has that kind of pride.
:swatter:


Sorry, wrong. JJ motivates himself. Clowney's presence won't cause him to find another level that he couldn't find by himself.

b0ng
05-13-2014, 04:24 PM
I'll take the under on that bet.

Clowney has to beat OTs and Watt. Think this year is graduate school for him.

Well the OT's I understand, but Watt is like the only guy he has to beat for a sack on the Texans. I'm hoping the kid comes out like Jevon Kearse did with the Titans years and years ago but it's been awhile since a rookie Dlineman scratched together a 10+ sack season.

Jackie Chiles
05-13-2014, 04:26 PM
Well the OT's I understand, but Watt is like the only guy he has to beat for a sack on the Texans. I'm hoping the kid comes out like Jevon Kearse did with the Titans years and years ago but it's been awhile since a rookie Dlineman scratched together a 10+ sack season.

Aldon Smith did it a few years ago. Technically not a D-lineman but neither is Clowney.

b0ng
05-13-2014, 04:29 PM
Aldon Smith did it a few years ago. Technically not a D-lineman but neither is Clowney.

This is true, although Aldon has Justin Smith in front of him to tie up O-linemen (Who did Kearse have on that Titans team to draw attention away from him? http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/oti/1999_roster.htm makes me think the answer is "nobody"), and Clowney will have Watt.

He's certainly come into a great situation for a DL.

mussop
05-13-2014, 05:49 PM
This is true, although Aldon has Justin Smith in front of him to tie up O-linemen (Who did Kearse have on that Titans team to draw attention away from him? http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/oti/1999_roster.htm makes me think the answer is "nobody"), and Clowney will have Watt.

He's certainly come into a great situation for a DL.

I agree 100%. This is a perfect situation for Clowney in so many ways. I really hope RAC gets creative with Watt and Clowney and moves them around alot. Make the offense have to adjust to something different as much as possible.

mussop
05-14-2014, 12:11 PM
I hope he does great ... I just wouldn't have gambled a 1:1 on him.

Drafted him to pressure the QB .. he had 3 sacks his senior season.

Very questionable motor and drive.

Hangs with questionable people.

Too many flags for me to use my 1:1 on him.

I believe Rick Smith was too stubborn in wanting multiple #1's for the 1:1 and they painted themselves into a corner. If it doesn't work out, Rick Smith should be gone.
Hangs out with questionable people?? You got some bad info.

Double Barrel
05-14-2014, 12:28 PM
To the stat obsessed folks, JJ is regressing because he went from 20.5 sacks in 2012 to "only" 10.5 sacks in 2013, so he's obviously not as good as he was before (their apparent logic, not mine).

To the rest of us, stats only tell part of the story. I think judging an incoming rookie based solely on stats and media blathering redundant arguments is a bit shallow and does not show an open mind willing to give the guy the benefit of the doubt before he's even played a down of pro football.

Some fans seem so stubborn to be proven right that they seem to be rooting against one of our new players.

ObsiWan
05-14-2014, 10:09 PM
To the stat obsessed folks, JJ is regressing because he went from 20.5 sacks in 2012 to "only" 10.5 sacks in 2013, so he's obviously not as good as he was before (their apparent logic, not mine).

To the rest of us, stats only tell part of the story. I think judging an incoming rookie based solely on stats and media blathering redundant arguments is a bit shallow and does not show an open mind willing to give the guy the benefit of the doubt before he's even played a down of pro football.

Some fans seem so stubborn to be proven right that they seem to be rooting against one of our new players.
weird huh?

badboy
05-14-2014, 10:32 PM
Clowney had 3 sacks his last year but Mercilus had 16 and then..

thunderkyss
05-14-2014, 11:07 PM
Clowney had 3 sacks his last year but Mercilus had 16 and then..

:thinking: but... :thinking: and... :thinking: well...

yeah.

mussop
05-14-2014, 11:13 PM
to the stat obsessed folks, jj is regressing because he went from 20.5 sacks in 2012 to "only" 10.5 sacks in 2013, so he's obviously not as good as he was before (their apparent logic, not mine).

to the rest of us, stats only tell part of the story. I think judging an incoming rookie based solely on stats and media blathering redundant arguments is a bit shallow and does not show an open mind willing to give the guy the benefit of the doubt before he's even played a down of pro football.

Some fans seem so stubborn to be proven right that they seem to be rooting against one of our new players.

msr!!1

76Texan
05-14-2014, 11:15 PM
Clowney had 3 sacks his last year but Mercilus had 16 and then..

:thinking: but... :thinking: and... :thinking: well...

yeah.

How many sacks did Watt record his last year at Wisconsin, I wonder.

Vance87
05-14-2014, 11:21 PM
He had 4.5 in 2009 and 7 in 2010.

I don't think anyone expected him to be this great and to record so many sacks from a 3-4 DE position, though. Clowney at OLB should be getting more sacks than JJ, but JJ routinely out-sacks other 3-4 OLBs because he's that good.

xtruroyaltyx
05-15-2014, 07:08 AM
Clowney had 3 sacks his last year but Mercilus had 16 and then..

Exactly.

And so many people were excited when we drafted him because if the numbers but if you turned the film on you see a guy who wasnt really that good.

TejasTom
05-15-2014, 07:23 AM
msr!!1

Got him.

Hope he has a season and career that silences the doubters.

HJam72
05-15-2014, 07:32 AM
We drafted this guy a week ago and he ain't gotta sack yet. :foottap:

mussop
05-15-2014, 07:44 AM
We drafted this guy a week ago and he ain't gotta sack yet. :foottap:

Can't beleive we haven't traded this POS YET.

thunderkyss
05-15-2014, 08:30 AM
We drafted this guy a week ago and he ain't gotta sack yet. :foottap:

He's saving himself for his contract year.

DBCooper
05-15-2014, 08:32 AM
He's saving himself for his contract year.

This IS his contract year!

TheRealJoker
05-15-2014, 09:20 AM
I am really excited to see how Crennel uses him. His speed off the ball is amazing!

maddogmrb
05-15-2014, 09:37 AM
Got him.

Hope he has a season and career that silences the doubters.

So do I ....

Thorn
05-15-2014, 12:02 PM
We drafted this guy a week ago and he ain't gotta sack yet. :foottap:

Sheesh, he hasn't gone grocery shopping yet. Give the guy a break.

Porky
05-15-2014, 12:07 PM
RAC is going to have to modify his 3-4 to accommodate the talents of Clowney and Watt. Should be interesting to watch this evolve.

Exascor
05-16-2014, 05:46 AM
Looks like Texans really wanted Clowney.
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/05/16/bills-tried-to-move-to-no-1-to-ensure-sammy-watkins-selection/

In a video posted to the team’s website, Jim Monos, Buffalo’s director of player personnel, confirmed our report ahead of the draft that the Bills were attempting to move up as far as the No. 1 overall selection for Watkins.

“We went with Houston right off the bat,” Monos said. “We tried to go to No. 1. They weren’t having it. They knew who they wanted, so we started working our way right down.”

Scooter
05-16-2014, 05:56 AM
i would love to know what they offered for the #1. if that report is true, we fubar'd the draft both this year and next - assuming realistic value in that trade.

Tania Ganguli of ESPN had the Texans in their mock draft. She seemed to be extremely informed and on the ball even though her results were too good to be true. Maybe they weren't.

Trade details:
BUF receives:
2014 first-round pick (No. 1 overall)
HOU receives:
2014 first-round pick (No. 9 overall)
2014 second-round pick (No. 41 overall)
2015 first-round pick
2015 third-round pick
2016 second-round pick

if we turned down an offer even in that neighborhood, fire everybody.

ATXtexanfan
05-16-2014, 06:15 AM
i would love to know what they offered for the #1. if that report is true, we fubar'd the draft both this year and next - assuming realistic value in that trade.

Tania Ganguli of ESPN had the Texans in their mock draft. She seemed to be extremely informed and on the ball even though her results were too good to be true. Maybe they weren't.



if we turned down an offer even in that neighborhood, fire everybody.
That's a nice haul but not enough in this year's draft. Wouldn't have been mad if they took it though

Scooter
05-16-2014, 07:19 AM
That's a nice haul but not enough in this year's draft. Wouldn't have been mad if they took it though

much respect for your evaluations, but you lost me at "this year". are you going to stop being a fan next year? did the draft process end without anyone telling me? are you telling me that you wouldnt be ecstatic next year and be praising the forsight as you mock 2 first round talents to the texans, plus an additional third? would you be complaining about the extra 2nd we'd be projecting in 2016? part of taking that trade is taking advantage of the other team, one already in dire straits. next year's pick could very well be the #1 ... 9 this year and 1 next year plus another first isnt good enough?

that turns into barr in the first, a premier talent that was as high as #1 after the college season and a better fit in our defense. 41 was lamarcus joyner at cornerback, a need position. we still get everyone but clowney. if you're only interested in this year, please let me introduce you to mike ditka. and then i'll point to this year's rams. next year is going to happen, and next year there will be a draft. if i can stay in the top 10 this year and add 4 more top 100 picks - regardless of when they happen - i'm taking it.

thunderkyss
05-16-2014, 07:26 AM
if i can stay in the top 10 this year and add 4 more top 100 picks - regardless of when they happen - i'm taking it.

Agreed. If we didn't take that deal, it was because Buffalo didn't offer it.

steelbtexan
05-16-2014, 07:39 AM
much respect for your evaluations, but you lost me at "this year". are you going to stop being a fan next year? did the draft process end without anyone telling me? are you telling me that you wouldnt be ecstatic next year and be praising the forsight as you mock 2 first round talents to the texans, plus an additional third? would you be complaining about the extra 2nd we'd be projecting in 2016? part of taking that trade is taking advantage of the other team, one already in dire straits. next year's pick could very well be the #1 ... 9 this year and 1 next year plus another first isnt good enough?

that turns into barr in the first, a premier talent that was as high as #1 after the college season and a better fit in our defense. 41 was lamarcus joyner at cornerback, a need position. we still get everyone but clowney. if you're only interested in this year, please let me introduce you to mike ditka. and then i'll point to this year's rams. next year is going to happen, and next year there will be a draft. if i can stay in the top 10 this year and add 4 more top 100 picks - regardless of when they happen - i'm taking it.

Agreed,

I doubt that deal was on the table.

Barr went #8 to the Vikings.

Scooter
05-16-2014, 07:41 AM
Agreed,

I doubt that deal was on the table.

Barr went #8 to the Vikings.

i doubt it as well, but assuming the report has merit the bills would've come with a somewhat realistic effort to get the #1.

barr went #9 to vikings (bill's original spot). #8 (viking's original spot) was browns trade up for gilbert. doesnt change your point that barr probably isnt there, but doesnt change mine either that we can grab a top 10 talent in a great draft and add huge picks both now and especially later.

ObsiWan
05-16-2014, 09:08 AM
That's a nice haul but not enough in this year's draft. Wouldn't have been mad if they took it though
That's where I am too. I would need three picks (two additional plus the swap of 1's) in this past draft to pull the trigger. I need fixes NOW not two years from now.

Playoffs
05-16-2014, 09:31 AM
Looks like Texans really wanted Clowney.Texans weren't interested in dropping out of the "elite 5" without getting a king's ransom, which was never offered.

Tania Ganguli of ESPN had the Texans in their mock draft. She seemed to be extremely informed and on the ball even though her results were too good to be true. Maybe they weren't.

if we turned down an offer even in that neighborhood, fire everybody.

That was a media mock draft and everyone was laughing at the BUF writer who did that deal. Not reality.

BUF GM is floating this crap out there in response to the majority opinion that they paid too much to move up where they did to get Watkins.

Scooter
05-16-2014, 09:47 AM
BUF GM is floating this crap out there in response to the majority opinion that they paid too much to move up where they did to get Watkins.

this is the most plausible scenario.

having nfl network on as background noise the last few days however, they've shown an abundance of situations where a team locked onto one player - always a dynamic offensive option - that teams were willing to aggressively trade for. the teams doing the trading were almost always on the lowest rungs and desperate for a playmaker to change fate. with the bill's ownership and location in flux, and #1 receiver stevie johnson on the way out, a wild trade for a great receiver wouldnt really be surprising.

i dont think the bills were willing to trade the farm for our 1st, but i believe they put in a bid, and probably a bid i personally would've taken.

DocBar
05-16-2014, 09:51 AM
The more I think about it, the more I like this draft and taking Clowney.

I'm pretty excited to see what the 2014 season brings. I don't have any W-L expectations. I just want to see a competitive team on the field. There's no way the Texans lose 7 games by a score or less.

IDEXAN
05-16-2014, 10:41 AM
The more I think about it, the more I like this draft and taking Clowney.


OK so I'm glad we got Clowney, but as much as I like him I don't think I like him nearly as much as what I'm hearing some do. I wonder what the Texans' "best offer" for him/1.1 really was ? We'll probably never know, but it's hard for me to believe the Texans were holding out for a package of picks which included multiple first-rounders, the kinda deal the Rams had with the Redskins a couple years ago for RGIII ? I would have made a deal with say ATL for less, say for their 1.6 and second rounder and a 4th round pick: did the Texans really have that opportunity with ATL but hold out for more ?

Thorn
05-16-2014, 11:06 AM
I'm happy with Da Clown. JJ Watt will teach him to play football. It's all good with me.

Until he screws up and then I'll change my mind and deny ever wanting him.

ObsiWan
05-16-2014, 11:51 AM
I'm happy with Da Clown. JJ Watt will teach him to play football. It's all good with me.

Until he screws up and then I'll change my mind and deny ever wanting him.
:spit:
the sad part is, you won't be alone.

thunderkyss
05-16-2014, 05:20 PM
i doubt it as well, but assuming the report has merit the bills would've come with a somewhat realistic effort to get the #1.


Why? Before the draft, the word was that Houston was desperate to get rid of the pick. so they called & lowballed us. We didn't bite.

They called & lowballed the Rams, they didn't bite.

They called & lowballed the Jags, no bite, but it got the Jags to take Bortles.

They called & lowballed the Browns, the Browns dropped back 5 spots & picked up a 1st & 4th next year.

That's it. Nothing this year.

DocBar
05-16-2014, 05:27 PM
OK so I'm glad we got Clowney, but as much as I like him I don't think I like him nearly as much as what I'm hearing some do. I wonder what the Texans' "best offer" for him/1.1 really was ? We'll probably never know, but it's hard for me to believe the Texans were holding out for a package of picks which included multiple first-rounders, the kinda deal the Rams had with the Redskins a couple years ago for RGIII ? I would have made a deal with say ATL for less, say for their 1.6 and second rounder and a 4th round pick: did the Texans really have that opportunity with ATL but hold out for more ?I was all about trading out of 1.1 and I would've done it cheap. It didn't happen, though, so now I'm cheering for my team again and pulling for all the rookies.

I really don't see a single reach pick.
:koolaid::koolaid::koolaid:

CloakNNNdagger
05-20-2014, 07:38 AM
...

Jayson Braddock ‏@JaysonBraddock 15h

Jadeveon Clowney is starting at the bottom of the depth chart & the #Texans will promote him as they feel he's developed up the ranks.

TheRealJoker
05-20-2014, 07:46 AM
...

Lets see if he can beat out Trevardo Williams!

drs23
05-20-2014, 10:39 AM
Lets see if he can beat out Trevardo Williams!

That's a tuff row to hoe there!

Playoffs
05-21-2014, 11:18 AM
Good piece by Farrar, w/videos, pics, comparisons...

The All-22: How does Jadeveon Clowney fit in Houston’s hybrid defensive fronts? (http://nfl.si.com/2014/05/20/jadeveon-clowney-fit-houston-texans/)
One of the more egregious and misleading ideas in the NFL today is the notion that teams playing a 3-4 defense actually play a 3-4 defense most of the time. With passing games becoming more complex, defenses have had to adjust, and the old base 3-4 schemes you may have seen from the Kansas City Chiefs and Houston Oilers in the 1970s are relative relics. Now, teams listed as employing 3-4 bases generally play plenty of nickel and dime coverage, which generally has them taking a defensive lineman off the field and replacing him with a slot cornerback (for nickel). And in the case of a dime defense, you’re down to one inside linebacker, and your outside linebackers (or endbackers, as I like to call them) are rushing off the edge, but in formation.

So, when a draft prospect joins his new NFL team, and pundits insist that the player will have trouble fitting into his new 3-4 defense because his college team played a 4-3 … well, it’s generally best to disregard that. First of all, only a handful of NCAA teams...

b0ng
05-21-2014, 12:07 PM
Good piece by Farrar, w/videos, pics, comparisons...

The All-22: How does Jadeveon Clowney fit in Houston’s hybrid defensive fronts? (http://nfl.si.com/2014/05/20/jadeveon-clowney-fit-houston-texans/)

That guy needs to find a synonym for the word "generally".

Blake
05-21-2014, 04:44 PM
That guy needs to find a synonym for the word "generally".

I agree with you. Generally.

Texian
05-21-2014, 05:24 PM
When was the last time an end rusher with only 3 sacks was drafted #1, the first pick in the draft?

Clowney was not the Texans clear absolute first choice in this draft. If he was, why did the Texans try up until the last two minutes before their time expired, try and trade the pick? Trading the pick was almost a certain Clowney would NOT be a Texan. No team thought enough of Clowney to trade up. Clowney was merrily the Texans next best option. Their 2nd Choice.

Clowney was the Texans, "We don't want to fail pick". The next best option pick. Clowney was the play it safe pick. The Texans were afraid of failing.

bhsman
05-21-2014, 05:45 PM
When was the last time an end rusher with only 3 sacks was drafted #1, the first pick in the draft?

End rushers are rarely taken to begin with, but plenty of great defensive players were drafted high after seeing their stats down during their last year of college play. It's not that uncommon.

Also: It's post-draft and people still won't stop parroting the 3-sack argument? What are you fighting for at this point?

Clowney was not the Texans clear absolute first choice in this draft. If he was, why did the Texans try up until the last two minutes before their time expired, try and trade the pick? Trading the pick was almost a certain Clowney would NOT be a Texan. No team thought enough of Clowney to trade up. Clowney was merrily the Texans next best option. Their 2nd Choice.

The Bills offered two firsts and some change just to move up for Sammy Watkins and were supposedly willing to deal with Houston as well - which speaks to earlier reports that Rick wanted a king's ransom for first overall (exchange of firsts + two more and change) not unlike what St. Louis got. Waiting until the last two minutes for any possible trades is the smart thing to do, not some indication that they don't like Clowney.

That's like saying you have the option of getting a free Ferrari but are offered money for it at one-and-a-half times its value, but only if you get the solid offer. If you do? Take it. If you don't? Then take the damn Ferrari; it's not rocket science.

Double Barrel
05-21-2014, 05:46 PM
Teams were interested in Clowney but were unwilling to give the Texans what they thought he was worth.

I can only recall one player in recent memory that went 1.1 and a team would be unwilling to trade under any circumstance (Andrew Luck).

The Texans did their due diligence by waiting until the last possible moment that someone could offer a blockbuster trade. I think the Bills made an offer, but in the Texans perspective, it was not worth the deal. Bird in the hand versus two in the bush kinda' mentality.

LikeMike
05-21-2014, 06:24 PM
When was the last time an end rusher with only 3 sacks was drafted #1, the first pick in the draft?

Clowney was not the Texans clear absolute first choice in this draft. If he was, why did the Texans try up until the last two minutes before their time expired, try and trade the pick? Trading the pick was almost a certain Clowney would NOT be a Texan. No team thought enough of Clowney to trade up. Clowney was merrily the Texans next best option. Their 2nd Choice.

Clowney was the Texans, "We don't want to fail pick". The next best option pick. Clowney was the play it safe pick. The Texans were afraid of failing.

If there is not that franchise QB you absolutely need, you have to listen to all offers. The Rams got 3 first round picks (2 of them were in the top 10) just to move down a couple of spaces. If you can get something like that, you have to do it, even if you love the player.

All we`ve heard was: the Texans want 3 first rounders to even consider moving out of the first spot. That`s how highly they thought of Clowney. They´d probably have taken a little less, but not much less than that. So the Texans were probably very much in love with Clowney. As were several scouts that had rated him higher than any other defensive player coming out of college in the last 20 years.

As fans we of course don`t get the whole picture. We don`t know what the Texans asked for and what was offered. But the Bills trade alone should show you, that offers were on the table, and most likely because someone wanted Clowney. That we didn`t take any offer but selected Clowney should tell you, how much the team wanted him.

thunderkyss
05-21-2014, 08:05 PM
When was the last time an end rusher with only 3 sacks was drafted #1, the first pick in the draft?


Probably about the same time a QB with only two years starting for smallish football program was taken #3 overall.

Or the last time a QB less than 6 feet tall was taken in the first round.

mussop
05-21-2014, 08:22 PM
Probably about the same time a QB with only two years starting for smallish football program was taken #3 overall.

Or the last time a QB less than 6 feet tall was taken in the first round.

You gotta be careful with them stats. They can make you look awfully foolish if you rely on them to much.

xtruroyaltyx
05-22-2014, 07:25 AM
Mercilus had a lot of sacks his last year in college.

DBCooper
05-22-2014, 07:58 AM
Mercilus had a lot of sacks his last year in college.

Now you're just makin fun.

thunderkyss
05-22-2014, 08:17 AM
Clowney had 3 sacks his last year but Mercilus had 16 and then..

From a week ago.

Texian
05-22-2014, 08:20 AM
Probably about the same time a QB with only two years starting for smallish football program was taken #3 overall.

Or the last time a QB less than 6 feet tall was taken in the first round.

So you don't know....

disaacks3
05-22-2014, 10:05 AM
RAC is going to have to modify his 3-4 to accommodate the talents of Clowney and Watt. Should be interesting to watch this evolve. That's one word to choose.

When was the last time an end rusher with only 3 sacks was drafted #1, the first pick in the draft?

Clowney was not the Texans clear absolute first choice in this draft. If he was, why did the Texans try up until the last two minutes before their time expired, try and trade the pick? Trading the pick was almost a certain Clowney would NOT be a Texan. No team thought enough of Clowney to trade up. Clowney was merrily the Texans next best option. Their 2nd Choice.

Clowney was the Texans, "We don't want to fail pick". The next best option pick. Clowney was the play it safe pick. The Texans were afraid of failing. Oh, I'm sure that several "tried" to move up, but the Texans brain trust didn't get their asking price. Given the trades we DID see, I think the Texans were foolish not to take an offer, but only time will tell.

Teams were interested in Clowney but were unwilling to give the Texans what they thought he was worth.

I can only recall one player in recent memory that went 1.1 and a team would be unwilling to trade under any circumstance (Andrew Luck).

The Texans did their due diligence by waiting until the last possible moment that someone could offer a blockbuster trade. I think the Bills made an offer, but in the Texans perspective, it was not worth the deal. Bird in the hand versus two in the bush kinda' mentality. Agreed. I think they overvalued him, but it's done. I still don't understand why they didn't trade back into the late first, it wouldn't have cost much (based on what we saw) and the Texans had the picks to spare. Then again, the only time I remember us doing that, we got the great Jason Babin.

All we`ve heard was: the Texans want 3 first rounders to even consider moving out of the first spot. That`s how highly they thought of Clowney. They´d probably have taken a little less, but not much less than that. So the Texans were probably very much in love with Clowney. As were several scouts that had rated him higher than any other defensive player coming out of college in the last 20 years.

That we didn`t take any offer but selected Clowney should tell you, how much the team wanted him. I think the Texans thought so highly of having the #1 SPOT, that they were unwilling to move except for the proverbial King's Ransom. This is the same franchise that announced the Mario Williams deal BEFORE the draft, thereby negating ANY chance of a deal.

xtruroyaltyx
05-22-2014, 12:45 PM
I think more than clowney by himself, clowney's value (for us) rose higher because if jj watt. Now I know a lot of people will say a number 1 pick should be able to stand alone. I think clowney can be good all by himself, but I think if you pair him with watt (and sprinkle in some other talent up front) and he has the potential to help make this front 7 epic.

Clowney has that type of talent and ability to where if you pair him with someone like watt who is already proven to be special, you could have a unit on your team that could have a huge impact in every single game. Hard to double two guys. Add in some other talented guys like nix, Cushing, yada, yada...and this defensive front 7 all of a sudden this defense could be all time special.

Maybe even grabbing some other really good players didn't appeal to the texans as much as having two players the caliber of watt and clowney in the front 7. If clowney pans out we could witness done really cool stuff on Sundays.

Double Barrel
05-22-2014, 01:02 PM
I think more than clowney by himself, clowney's value (for us) rose higher because if jj watt. Now I know a lot of people will say a number 1 pick should be able to stand alone. I think clowney can be good all by himself, but I think if you pair him with watt (and sprinkle in some other talent up front) and he has the potential to help make this front 7 epic.

Clowney has that type of talent and ability to where if you pair him with someone like watt who is already proven to be special, you could have a unit on your team that could have a huge impact in every single game. Hard to double two guys. Add in some other talented guys like nix, Cushing, yada, yada...and this defensive front 7 all of a sudden this defense could be all time special.

Maybe even grabbing some other really good players didn't appeal to the texans as much as having two players the caliber of watt and clowney in the front 7. If clowney pans out we could witness done really cool stuff on Sundays.

I think you nailed it. They are going to give JJ a big fat contract within the next year so he's around for a long time. Pairing him up with a very high potential rookie, who gives us 4-5 years on the roster, increases the odds that both players can have monster seasons.

I really think this is the mentality of this franchise right now. Build a defense so badass that they can protect whatever lead a work-in-progress offense can provide. We've seen defenses turn around in a year, and Crennel has a lot to work with right now. I truly expect this to be a highly ranked defense next year in stats that count: turnovers, third down percentages, pressures/sacks, tackles for loss, type of stuff.

As a fan of defense, this is the most exciting part of the 2014 season. :texflag:

HOU-TEX
05-22-2014, 01:23 PM
I think you nailed it. They are going to give JJ a big fat contract within the next year so he's around for a long time. Pairing him up with a very high potential rookie, who gives us 4-5 years on the roster, increases the odds that both players can have monster seasons.

I really think this is the mentality of this franchise right now. Build a defense so badass that they can protect whatever lead a work-in-progress offense can provide. We've seen defenses turn around in a year, and Crennel has a lot to work with right now. I truly expect this to be a highly ranked defense next year in stats that count: turnovers, third down percentages, pressures/sacks, tackles for loss, type of stuff.

As a fan of defense, this is the most exciting part of the 2014 season. :texflag:

Agree with both of y'all. However, will Crennel think outside the box with the personnel he now has? Meaning, will he be the Crennel of the Pats glory days where he mixed and matched on a weekly basis? Or will he be the Crennel that has that bleh kind of 3-4 that's easily read?

dalemurphy
05-22-2014, 04:16 PM
The funny thing about this argument is that the ultimate wisdom regarding this pick will not be determined by Clowney. If Savage turns into a quality starting QB then the decision not to trade down will have paid dividends. If Savage doesn't work out and one of the following do: Bortles, Manziel, Bridgewater, the Texans will have a deep sense of regret for not trading out of that spot and getting their future QB... even if Clowney is a stud.

The Texans can have the best defensive player in the NFL (Watt), a top WR (AJ), a great LT, a great RB, etc.... and still only win 2 games. It is the ultimate team sport. Yet, the QB position can make all of the difference and mean more to a team than any one position in the other sports (hockey goalie, #1 starting pitcher, etc...)

Double Barrel
05-22-2014, 04:27 PM
Agree with both of y'all. However, will Crennel think outside the box with the personnel he now has? Meaning, will he be the Crennel of the Pats glory days where he mixed and matched on a weekly basis? Or will he be the Crennel that has that bleh kind of 3-4 that's easily read?

yeah, good points. I'm basing my excitement on him being the Crennel of the Pats glory days.

If it's the bleh predictable 3-4, blech. 2014 could be a really, really long season.

The funny thing about this argument is that the ultimate wisdom regarding this pick will not be determined by Clowney. If Savage turns into a quality starting QB then the decision not to trade down will have paid dividends. If Savage doesn't work out and one of the following do: Bortles, Manziel, Bridgewater, the Texans will have a deep sense of regret for not trading out of that spot and getting their future QB... even if Clowney is a stud.

The Texans can have the best defensive player in the NFL (Watt), a top WR (AJ), a great LT, a great RB, etc.... and still only win 2 games. It is the ultimate team sport. Yet, the QB position can make all of the difference and mean more to a team than any one position in the other sports (hockey goalie, #1 starting pitcher, etc...)

The interesting thing about Savage is that he seemingly has a lot more margin for error being a 4th round pick. Nobody truly has the expectations on him like they would a first round QB. If he sucks, then the Texans just chalk it up to experience and continue looking for their next QB, as opposed to a first round guy who has so much money wrapped up in him that they have to continually give him chance after chance even if he sucks.

At least if Clowney is a stud, we know going into 2015 that the Texans have a solid foundation on defense to build on, and they can put more resources into that QB search.

Number19
05-22-2014, 05:26 PM
...Hard to double two guys...I keep hearing this and it just isn't true unless you have Clowney playing on the same side as JJ. If JJ plays the strong side and JD plays the weak side, he can be doubled team every time by the LT and a TE in a two TE set.

kiwitexansfan
05-22-2014, 05:46 PM
I keep hearing this and it just isn't true unless you have Clowney playing on the same side as JJ. If JJ plays the strong side and JD plays the weak side, he can be doubled team every time by the LT and a TE in a two TE set.

Technically you can yes, but that is 4/11 guys occupied leaving your defense to play 9 v 7.

The Pencil Neck
05-22-2014, 06:08 PM
I keep hearing this and it just isn't true unless you have Clowney playing on the same side as JJ. If JJ plays the strong side and JD plays the weak side, he can be doubled team every time by the LT and a TE in a two TE set.

Let's say we're going against a 12 formation and let's say we rush 5 - Watt, Clowney, Nix, Crick/Pagan, and Mercilus. If they've got a T and TE on Watt and Clowney. That leaves a center, two guards, and a running back on Nix, Crick/Pagan, and Mercilus.

They'll have 2 wideouts against 2 CBs, 2 Ss, and 2 ILBs.

We SHOULD be able to cover someone in that situation.

xtruroyaltyx
05-22-2014, 06:12 PM
I keep hearing this and it just isn't true unless you have Clowney playing on the same side as JJ. If JJ plays the strong side and JD plays the weak side, he can be doubled team every time by the LT and a TE in a two TE set.

Hard to double two guys doesn't equal impossible.

When I say it's hard to double two guys I mean it's hard to do it and be successful.

Fine, leave two TE's in. That's two less guys we have to cover. If we have 6 in coverage we could double up on every receiver. And then you're still banking on no one else on defense being able to beat being single blocked.

We could even get into the possibility of bringing six and leaving 5 in coverage against your three. We still would outnumber you on the back end and now since you're doubling watt and clowney we have Cushing coming at you unblocked.

When I say it's hard to double two guys im not talking physically. I'm talking theoretically. If you're doubling watt and clowney they are doing their jobs and if the rest if the defense is even decent they should feast.

Double Barrel
05-22-2014, 06:13 PM
It's not just about doubling guys every play, too. They will be moving these guys around, creating confusion, and attacking from many directions. They will be looking for weaknesses to exploit, especially mismatches when the Texans defense throws some wrinkles in the pre-snap formations.

xtruroyaltyx
05-22-2014, 06:19 PM
It's not just about doubling guys every play, too. They will be moving these guys around, creating confusion, and attacking from many directions. They will be looking for weaknesses to exploit, especially mismatches when the Texans defense throws some wrinkles in the pre-snap formations.

Yep.

If clowney can harness that potential this defense is going to be good. The end.

It would be really hard to have watt and clowney (reaching his ceiling) and be a bad defense.

Texian
05-22-2014, 07:42 PM
Clowney was the Texans, "We don't want to fail pick". The next best option pick. Clowney was the play it safe pick. The Texans were afraid of failing.

...."In the end Clowney was the smart pick and was made in large part based on fear; the team was afraid of passing up such a potentially dominant defender."

http://www.bigcatcountry.com/2014/5/21/5737952/blake-bortles-houston-texans-nfl-draft-2014

The Texans like so many here are guilty of thinking inside the box.

DBCooper
05-22-2014, 07:52 PM
...."In the end Clowney was the smart pick and was made in large part based on fear; the team was afraid of passing up such a potentially dominant defender."

http://www.bigcatcountry.com/2014/5/21/5737952/blake-bortles-houston-texans-nfl-draft-2014

The Texans like so many here are guilty of thinking inside the box.

Lucky we got you.

dalemurphy
05-22-2014, 07:53 PM
...."In the end Clowney was the smart pick and was made in large part based on fear; the team was afraid of passing up such a potentially dominant defender."

http://www.bigcatcountry.com/2014/5/21/5737952/blake-bortles-houston-texans-nfl-draft-2014

The Texans like so many here are guilty of thinking inside the box.

I have no idea if you are correct about why the Texans drafted Clowney. I was certainly hoping for a trade down, and I am very worried about his poor production in 2013...

That being said, finding a quote by a person making pure, unsubstantiated conjecture is not real evidence to support your pure, unsubstantiated conjecture.

AngryNateFTW
05-22-2014, 08:09 PM
...."In the end Clowney was the smart pick and was made in large part based on fear; the team was afraid of passing up such a potentially dominant defender."

http://www.bigcatcountry.com/2014/5/21/5737952/blake-bortles-houston-texans-nfl-draft-2014

The Texans like so many here are guilty of thinking inside the box.

Clowney is doing and saying all the right things right now. He's out there working, getting the playbook down, getting coached up, etc.

If he lives up to the what he has shown his entire career at South Carolina, he was well worth the 1st overall pick. I don't believe for a second that fear had to do with any of this. Back when the Texans drafted JJ Watt (you were very disappointed with the pick) but the Texans ended up looking like geniuses in that draft and it really didn't have much to do with his on the field success.

1. Cam Newton - Solid pick, is a game-changing QB.
2. Von Miller - While a great athlete, he was suspended 6 games, he was pulled over with a suspended license, and is constantly in small legal problems.
3. Marcell Dareus - Arrested in Alabama for possession of "Synthetic Marijuana."
4. A.J. Green - Fantastic pick for that franchise.
5. Patrick Peterson - Also a great pick.
6. Julio Jones - If not for his season-ending injury last season, he'd have been a valuable piece to the Falcons offense every single year he's been in ATL.
7. Aldon Smith - Drunk in an airport, threatening that he had a bomb in his bag, etc. Complete moron.
8. Jake Locker - .....lol.
9. Tyron Smith - Solid piece in that Dallas offensive front.
10. Blaine Gabbert - .....lol :spit:
11. JJ Watt - DPOY, fantastic person to the community, loved by many in the NFL, etc.

Some here wanted Aldon Smith and boy, aren't we glad that that didn't happen. (We also wanted Peterson which in comparison ON the field wouldn't have been as great a pick, but Peterson would have still been a play-maker.)

My point in all that was that the Texans do their homework on players and tend to get smart, classy players to build around this organization. No off the field issues.

DocBar
05-22-2014, 08:18 PM
I have no idea if you are correct about why the Texans drafted Clowney. I was certainly hoping for a trade down, and I am very worried about his poor production in 2013...

That being said, finding a quote by a person making pure, unsubstantiated conjecture is not real evidence to support your pure, unsubstantiated conjecture. I have the same concerns as you, but the kid has come in and said and done all the right things. I'm mildly encouraged and very much looking forward to TC (training camp, not Texans Chick :) ) and seeing if his actions live up to his words.

I've actually come around to thinking Houston is the best place Clowney could've landed. He's not the best player on the team for the 1st time in his life. Being on the team with JJ, Cush and AJ plus a rookie coaching staff that emphasis "team" over "individual" gives JD the best possible chance to maximize his talents and be a force in the NFL. He has a much better chance to reach his potential, due to surroundings and circumstance, than Mario did when he was drafted. In 2006, the Texans needed Mario to be great. In 2014, the Texans need JD to be good and learn his position. Hind sight being what it is, I'd love to see where Mario would be if he'd re-signed with the Texans and played next to JJ.

I wonder where we would've drafted in 2014 in that scenario. I doubt it would 1.20 or higher. Regardless of QB play and PK accuracy.

Think about that and consider where the Texans

DocBar
05-22-2014, 08:24 PM
Clowney is doing and saying all the right things right now. He's out there working, getting the playbook down, getting coached up, etc.

If he lives up to the what he has shown his entire career at South Carolina, he was well worth the 1st overall pick. I don't believe for a second that fear had to do with any of this. Back when the Texans drafted JJ Watt (you were very disappointed with the pick) but the Texans ended up looking like geniuses in that draft and it really didn't have much to do with his on the field success.

1. Cam Newton - Solid pick, is a game-changing QB.
2. Von Miller - While a great athlete, he was suspended 6 games, he was pulled over with a suspended license, and is constantly in small legal problems.
3. Marcell Dareus - Arrested in Alabama for possession of "Synthetic Marijuana."
4. A.J. Green - Fantastic pick for that franchise.
5. Patrick Peterson - Also a great pick.
6. Julio Jones - If not for his season-ending injury last season, he'd have been a valuable piece to the Falcons offense every single year he's been in ATL.
7. Aldon Smith - Drunk in an airport, threatening that he had a bomb in his bag, etc. Complete moron.
8. Jake Locker - .....lol.
9. Tyron Smith - Solid piece in that Dallas offensive front.
10. Blaine Gabbert - .....lol :spit:
11. JJ Watt - DPOY, fantastic person to the community, loved by many in the NFL, etc.

Some here wanted Aldon Smith and boy, aren't we glad that that didn't happen. (We also wanted Peterson which in comparison ON the field wouldn't have been as great a pick, but Peterson would have still been a play-maker.)

My point in all that was that the Texans do their homework on players and tend to get smart, classy players to build around this organization. No off the field issues.
I'd start a charity fund to pay for ICak and TC's retainer fee's and expect to get a selfie with the :trophy: while on a float in the SB parade in downtown Houston!!!!

Man, I wish that complete moron played for the Texans. I'd chip in for his rehab and counseling sessions.



Just my opinion.:fostering:

Texian
05-22-2014, 08:25 PM
Back when the Texans drafted JJ Watt (you were very disappointed with the pick) but the Texans ended up looking like geniuses in that draft and it really didn't have much to do with his on the field success.

You're right Nate, I was, for about 15 minutes. You know that Nate because I posted the quote, several times, where I said drafting Watt was brilliant within minutes after posting my displeasure with the pick. In fact I was one first to applaud the pick. I thought it was brilliant because it allowed Wade to move Mario to OLB. But you knew that also. If you're going to tell a story, tell the whole story.

As for the Texans drafting Watt that is one of the VERY FEW bright spots in Texans draft history since Rick Smith arrived on seen with his new scouting staff.

dalemurphy
05-22-2014, 08:35 PM
You're right Nate, I was, for about 15 minutes. You know that Nate because I posted the quote, several times, where I said drafting Watt was brilliant within minutes after posting my displeasure with the pick. In fact I was one first to applaud the pick. I thought it was brilliant because it allowed Wade to move Mario to OLB. But you knew that also. If you're going to tell a story, tell the whole story.


You wouldn't need to defend yourself so rigorously if you weren't so premature to assert absolute certainty about so many things that are uncertain.

By the way, as great as the Watt pick was, I'd say the freedom to move Mario to OLB hardly figures into the equation. We drafted the best defensive player in a decade at a position that impacts all aspects of the defense on every play... Meanwhile, Mario is in Buffalo continuing to make an impact about 4 weeks per season.

DocBar
05-22-2014, 08:36 PM
You wouldn't need to defend yourself so rigorously if you weren't so premature to assert absolute certainty about so many things that are uncertain.

By the way, as great as the Watt pick was, I'd say the freedom to move Mario to OLB hardly figures into the equation. We drafted the best defensive player in a decade at a position that impacts all aspects of the defense on every play... Meanwhile, Mario is in Buffalo continuing to make an impact about 4 weeks per season.See post 457 and give an opinion, please.

Texian
05-22-2014, 08:42 PM
Lucky we got you.

Yes you're

Texian
05-22-2014, 08:46 PM
By the way, as great as the Watt pick was, I'd say the freedom to move Mario to OLB hardly figures into the equation.

I refer you to the video with Wade Phillips not long after he drafted Watt.

Texian
05-22-2014, 09:07 PM
This one is for Nate:

STOP the Presses! Get ready for this. Texian is about to shock the board*******

Picking JJ Watt may actually be a stroke of Genius. Yes thats right I said it, Wade may have pulled off a brilliant move. Provided he can move Mario to the Demarcus Ware position and there is no reason to think he can't. Pretty ballsy though making the pick on an assumption and not really knowing. But if it works, BRILLIANT!

http://boards.houstontexans.com/showpost.php?p=391180&postcount=258

AngryNateFTW
05-22-2014, 09:34 PM
This one is for Nate:

STOP the Presses! Get ready for this. Texian is about to shock the board*******

Picking JJ Watt may actually be a stroke of Genius. Yes thats right I said it, Wade may have pulled off a brilliant move. Provided he can move Mario to the Demarcus Ware position and there is no reason to think he can't. Pretty ballsy though making the pick on an assumption and not really knowing. But if it works, BRILLIANT!

http://boards.houstontexans.com/showpost.php?p=391180&postcount=258

I know the Watt pick really eeks you. :D especially the part where you said he wouldn't be known for sacking the QB. I concur though, you did immediately mention how drafting Watt and moving Mario to OLB would bolster our defensive front 7 which it did.

thunderkyss
05-22-2014, 10:10 PM
...."In the end Clowney was the smart pick and was made in large part based on fear; the team was afraid of passing up such a potentially dominant defender."

http://www.bigcatcountry.com/2014/5/21/5737952/blake-bortles-houston-texans-nfl-draft-2014

The Texans like so many here are guilty of thinking inside the box.

http://cdn3.vox-cdn.com/profile_images/1030623/meeeee.jpg

This is the guy you're quoting.

dalemurphy
05-22-2014, 10:27 PM
This one is for Nate:

STOP the Presses! Get ready for this. Texian is about to shock the board*******

Picking JJ Watt may actually be a stroke of Genius. Yes thats right I said it, Wade may have pulled off a brilliant move. Provided he can move Mario to the Demarcus Ware position and there is no reason to think he can't. Pretty ballsy though making the pick on an assumption and not really knowing. But if it works, BRILLIANT!

http://boards.houstontexans.com/showpost.php?p=391180&postcount=258

All picks are "an assumption". The organization may have confidence in the pick, but that is not to be confused with certainty. Do you really think the Texans viewed the Watt pick as risky? I doubt it. I think they were confident that he was the best choice...

Learn the difference in these two words: Confidence, Certainty- They actually mean things very different.

dalemurphy
05-22-2014, 10:34 PM
I have the same concerns as you, but the kid has come in and said and done all the right things. I'm mildly encouraged and very much looking forward to TC (training camp, not Texans Chick :) ) and seeing if his actions live up to his words.

I've actually come around to thinking Houston is the best place Clowney could've landed. He's not the best player on the team for the 1st time in his life. Being on the team with JJ, Cush and AJ plus a rookie coaching staff that emphasis "team" over "individual" gives JD the best possible chance to maximize his talents and be a force in the NFL. He has a much better chance to reach his potential, due to surroundings and circumstance, than Mario did when he was drafted. In 2006, the Texans needed Mario to be great. In 2014, the Texans need JD to be good and learn his position. Hind sight being what it is, I'd love to see where Mario would be if he'd re-signed with the Texans and played next to JJ.

I wonder where we would've drafted in 2014 in that scenario. I doubt it would 1.20 or higher. Regardless of QB play and PK accuracy.

Think about that and consider where the Texans


I am hopeful that Clowney will work out. Being a believer in Rick Smith, the fact that he selected Clowney is encouraging... For those who do not believe in Smith, perhaps the opposite is true.

Regarding the expectations the team has for Clowney vs. Mario- I think the organization as a whole sees players differently. I think there will be less focus on the performance of the individual, not just because of BoB but also because of the system/philosophy of Crennel's defense. One other point- it is easier to have lower expectations for a guy with a 5yr-$24 million contract than with a guy making over $50 million... So, simply the changed salary structure of the draft, makes a huge difference IMO.

NCTexan
05-23-2014, 08:29 AM
http://cdn3.vox-cdn.com/profile_images/1030623/meeeee.jpg

This is the guy you're quoting.

Nah brah, a random blogger for another team totally knows exactly what the Texans were gonna do man. He totally talked to Rick and Bill and they told him they were scared.

Why would this guy, whose team has needed a QB for a while and just drafted one #3 overall, want to get on the Bortles hype train? Totally legit source.

:sarcasm:

Plus, the guy even says in the quote that Clowney was the smart pick... Do we want them making unsmart pick?

Lucky
05-23-2014, 08:31 AM
I am hopeful that Clowney will work out. Being a believer in Rick Smith, the fact that he selected Clowney is encouraging... For those who do not believe in Smith, perhaps the opposite is true.
"I hated the pick until Rick Smith made it." Really? A 10 year old with a Kiper draft guide could have made that pick.

infantrycak
05-23-2014, 08:36 AM
Nah brah, a random blogger for another team totally knows exactly what the Texans were gonna do man. He totally talked to Rick and Bill and they told him they were scared.

But he had a totally, 100%, grade A credible source:

Texian
http://funny.funnyoldplanet.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/dweeb-glasses.jpg

thunderkyss
05-23-2014, 08:48 AM
But he had a totally, 100%, grade A credible source:

Texian
http://funny.funnyoldplanet.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/dweeb-glasses.jpg

I'm pretty sure Texian has a tinfoil hat.

:tinfoil:

NCTexan
05-23-2014, 08:52 AM
I'm pretty sure Texian has a tinfoil hat.

:tinfoil:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/f3/Tin_foil_hat_2.jpg


On a side note, we all really regress to children in the off season...

Texian
05-23-2014, 08:56 AM
That being said, finding a quote by a person making pure, unsubstantiated conjecture is not real evidence to support your pure, unsubstantiated conjecture.



This is the guy you're quoting.

But he had a totally, 100%, grade A credible source:



The guy who actually made the quote was Tony Pauline, who has more credibility than anyone on this board. He did know the name on the second card. He just doesn't rise to level of silly or is as full of the many excuses that can be found here.

http://www.draftinsider.net/blog/?p=9760

NCTexan
05-23-2014, 09:32 AM
The guy who actually made the quote was Tony Pauline, who has more credibility than anyone on this board. He did know the name on the second card. He just doesn't rise to level of silly or is as full of the many excuses that can be found here.

http://www.draftinsider.net/blog/?p=9760

Ah Texian it's all in good fun. You've been an awesome addition to the draft section.

I'm still confused as how it being "the smart pick" is a bad thing though.

infantrycak
05-23-2014, 10:01 AM
The guy who actually made the quote was Tony Pauline, who has more credibility than anyone on this board. He did know the name on the second card. He just doesn't rise to level of silly or is as full of the many excuses that can be found here.

I know you love to latch onto any rumor or anonymous claim which agrees with your agenda as handed down from on high. Assuming he did know the name on the card, which I have no problem with, I have serious doubts one of the Texans privy to the decision making ran out to him and said "we were scared." But you will believe as you want.

Double Barrel
05-23-2014, 10:19 AM
That Tony Pauline, he sure knows his stuff, being so credible and all:

Tony Pauline Says Browns “Are Looking At and Leaning Toward Mike Evans” at No. 4 (http://cleveland.cbslocal.com/2014/05/01/tony-pauline-says-browns-are-looking-at-and-leaning-toward-mike-evans-at-no-4/)

He sure had the pulse of the Browns, so no doubt the Texans front office called him before making their picks, too.

But I see why Texian loves him some Tony Pauline:

NFL Mock Draft 2014: Tony Pauline projects Blake Bortles No. 1 overall (http://fansided.com/2014/01/10/nfl-mock-draft-2014-tony-pauline-projects-blake-bortles-1-overall/#!PR3jc) :heart:

Honoring Earl 34
05-23-2014, 10:37 AM
That Tony Pauline, he sure knows his stuff, being so credible and all:

Tony Pauline Says Browns “Are Looking At and Leaning Toward Mike Evans” at No. 4 (http://cleveland.cbslocal.com/2014/05/01/tony-pauline-says-browns-are-looking-at-and-leaning-toward-mike-evans-at-no-4/)

He sure had the pulse of the Browns, so no doubt the Texans front office called him before making their picks, too.

But I see why Texian loves him some Tony Pauline:

NFL Mock Draft 2014: Tony Pauline projects Blake Bortles No. 1 overall (http://fansided.com/2014/01/10/nfl-mock-draft-2014-tony-pauline-projects-blake-bortles-1-overall/#!PR3jc) :heart:

When you have Clowney rated a 7.5 and Bortles not even the highest rated QB at 6.2 , he wasn't going #1 .

Mr teX
05-23-2014, 01:20 PM
Lol at you guys still paying attention to Texian...dude will stop at nothing to get his agenda out there about Bortles....


I'm honestly convinced that he's somehow related to this dude.

bhsman
05-23-2014, 01:31 PM
Pauline is a decent dude; he actually called the Savage pick awhile back, saying on Twitter that O'Brien preferred Tom or Zach Mettenberger over drafting a QB first overall. Big Cat Country has some pretty decent writers; y'all should give their overview of the different defensive formations (4-3/3-4/Seattle's "Leo" defense, etc.) sometime.

That said, I don't know why anyone bothers replying to Texian on this subject any more. All of his original posts in this topic have been him pooh-poohing the Clowney pick as if that will change anything.

IDEXAN
05-23-2014, 03:59 PM
So I'm still feeling giddy about securing "JD" with our 1.1, and for that matter the whole Draft we had this year, the more I consider it the more I like it.
But good, bad, or indifferent (depending on your perspective), who is JD most like in terms of pass-rushers of the recent past and what kind of career do you guys see for him ? There's a chance he could compare to Demarcus Ware, but that's a big target. A Jevon Kearse career wouldn't be too shabby, but I'm hoping for more than that. Or maybe you think he'll be a total bust, and if so how long before he's out of the league ?

steelbtexan
05-23-2014, 04:09 PM
I am hopeful that Clowney will work out. Being a believer in Rick Smith, the fact that he selected Clowney is encouraging... For those who do not believe in Smith, perhaps the opposite is true.

Regarding the expectations the team has for Clowney vs. Mario- I think the organization as a whole sees players differently. I think there will be less focus on the performance of the individual, not just because of BoB but also because of the system/philosophy of Crennel's defense. One other point- it is easier to have lower expectations for a guy with a 5yr-$24 million contract than with a guy making over $50 million... So, simply the changed salary structure of the draft, makes a huge difference IMO.

What makes you believe in Smith, 2-14 and 7 yrs on the job? If you had a job performance like that I would hope that you would be fired. Of course when your sons godfather is the owners son things change.

Could your admiration have to do with the fact that Kubiak failed and you cant let go of the past. We all want the same thing, (The Texans to be SB champs) but you are tending to hold onto the past and don't seem to have the abilty to consider that you may have been wrong when judging the past regime. Of course those pom poms tend to blur ones vision at times.

The Texans are a billion $$$$ corporation and they will do what they think is best for business, not necessarily winning football games. I've come to accept this as a Texans fan and hope you can too. If they happen to win along the way that's a great bonus.

Honoring Earl 34
05-23-2014, 04:11 PM
So I'm still feeling giddy about securing "JD" with our 1.1, and for that matter the whole Draft we had this year, the more I consider it the more I like it.
But good, bad, or indifferent (depending on your perspective), who is JD most like in terms of pass-rushers of the recent past and what kind of career do you guys see for him ? There's a chance he could compare to Demarcus Ware, but that's a big target. A Jevon Kearse career wouldn't be too shabby, but I'm hoping for more than that. Or maybe you think he'll be a total bust, and if so how long before he's out of the league ?

Kearse , Simeon Rice and Willie McGinest comes to mind . Maybe Tim Harris or Jason Taylor .

silvrhand
05-23-2014, 04:43 PM
Kearse , Simeon Rice and Willie McGinest comes to mind . Maybe Tim Harris or Jason Taylor .

If the talent comes through or all the picks we have put in the front 7 we should be really really strong for the next several years if things pan out.

Texian
05-23-2014, 08:24 PM
Kearse , Simeon Rice and Willie McGinest comes to mind . Maybe Tim Harris or Jason Taylor .

I'm thinking Aundray Bruce.

dalemurphy
05-23-2014, 10:04 PM
What makes you believe in Smith, 2-14 and 7 yrs on the job? If you had a job performance like that I would hope that you would be fired. Of course when your sons godfather is the owners son things change.

Could your admiration have to do with the fact that Kubiak failed and you cant let go of the past. We all want the same thing, (The Texans to be SB champs) but you are tending to hold onto the past and don't seem to have the abilty to consider that you may have been wrong when judging the past regime. Of course those pom poms tend to blur ones vision at times.

The Texans are a billion $$$$ corporation and they will do what they think is best for business, not necessarily winning football games. I've come to accept this as a Texans fan and hope you can too. If they happen to win along the way that's a great bonus.


From my perspective, a lack of talent was not the cause of last year's disaster. I believe Rick Smith has been quite successful bringing in talent with the resources he was given. Also, I think he has good instincts determining when veterans should be cut loose. Of course, it is difficult to draw definitive conclusions since there is so much ambiguity regarding the decision-making process between he and Kubiak.

To be clear, though: I rooted for Kubiak because I liked him. I have confidence in Smith because I think he is good at what he does. I never thought Kubiak was a great coach, nor have I had a rooting interest in Rick Smith beyond the fact that he is the Texans' GM.

thunderkyss
05-23-2014, 10:56 PM
The guy who actually made the quote was Tony Pauline, who has more credibility than anyone on this board. He did know the name on the second card. He just doesn't rise to level of silly or is as full of the many excuses that can be found here.

http://www.draftinsider.net/blog/?p=9760

When he starts talking about the Texans' motivation he's pretty much at that level of silly. Most likely this is a piece that justifies his opinion of who the Texans should have picked. He appears to be butthurt that the Texans did not do what he wanted them to do.

Again, looking at the BIG picture, we're not questioning his credibility, only the motivation to describe the Texans' pick in a negative context & you repeating it as if it were gospel.

Lol at you guys still paying attention to Texian...dude will stop at nothing to get his agenda out there about Bortles....


I'm honestly convinced that he's somehow related to this dude.

In his defense, he was the first to bring up the six degrees of separation point between Bortles & OB, and I think it is safe to say that OB was impressed with Bortles when Bortles beat his Nitany Lions.

However, that in-state rivalry is alive & kicking. He probably heard about Pittsburgh every week, & that QB Tom Savage, the one that turned him down.

Honoring Earl 34
05-23-2014, 11:01 PM
I'm thinking Aundray Bruce.

Barked like a true Bortles Collie .

Texian
05-23-2014, 11:32 PM
Barked like a true Bortles Collie .

Not very original HE, I thought you were better than that, no rep for you.

Not much difference between me and all of y'all. When Clowney does do his best Aundray Bruce impression, all of y'all will be barking like crazed dogs and singing like a bunch of Whiffenpoofs, what in the heck were the Texas thinking taking a DE with only 3 sacks, who not only took plays off but entire games as well. You'll quickly will disavow all man love for Clowney and demand a Kirby house cleaning.

thunderkyss
05-23-2014, 11:43 PM
...singing like a bunch of Whiffenpoofs

that's one for bellow the belt.

http://www.creativepartnership.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/11-0623-Whiffenpoofs.jpg

Honoring Earl 34
05-23-2014, 11:49 PM
Not very original HE, I thought you were better than that, no rep for you.

Not much difference between me and all of y'all. When Clowney does do his best Aundray Bruce impression, all of y'all will be barking like crazed dogs and singing like a bunch of Whiffenpoofs, what in the heck were the Texas thinking taking a DE with only 3 sacks, who not only took plays off but entire games as well. You'll quickly will disavow all man love for Clowney and demand a Kirby house cleaning.

Bortles will set the Jags back another 3 years while JJ , Clowney and the Texans stout running game go 8-8 . :texflag:

The 2015 NFL mock drafts have the Jags picking 2nd . Not much bang for the buck for a 3rd pick .

thetexanator
05-24-2014, 12:29 AM
im thinking demarcus ware

Texian
05-24-2014, 07:56 AM
Bortles will set the Jags back another 3 years while JJ , Clowney and the Texans stout running game go 8-8 . :texflag:

The 2015 NFL mock drafts have the Jags picking 2nd . Not much bang for the buck for a 3rd pick .

Best check what Jags have done in off season, free agency. Be better informed.

im thinking demarcus ware

Not even close to Ware's initial first step quickness. In fact compared to Ware's 1.49 10 yd split, Clowney ran a paltry 1.56.

IDEXAN
05-24-2014, 08:00 AM
Not very original HE, I thought you were better than that, no rep for you.

Not much difference between me and all of y'all. When Clowney does do his best Aundray Bruce impression, all of y'all will be barking like crazed dogs and singing like a bunch of Whiffenpoofs, what in the heck were the Texas thinking taking a DE with only 3 sacks, who not only took plays off but entire games as well. You'll quickly will disavow all man love for Clowney and demand a Kirby house cleaning.
The back-and-forth means nothing to me anymore, the Draft is over, and JD is now a Texan so it would seem we should all get on board with that fact and hope he has a successful, hopefully even an outstanding career in Houston/NFL. If you honestly think he's gonna be a bust, so be it but no point in going on about it and gloating.
Now as far as Bortles goes, I think it was a very gutsy call by the Jags and their HC/GM, I commend them for it and would say the same about OB/Smith had they drafted Bortles, but apparently they just didn't see what the Jags saw.

DBCooper
05-24-2014, 08:07 AM
The back-and-forth means nothing to me anymore, the Draft is over, and JD is now a Texan so it would seem we should all get on board with that fact and hope he has a successful, hopefully even an outstanding career in Houston/NFL. If you honestly think he's gonna be a bust, so be it but no point in going on about it and gloating.
Now as far as Bortles goes, I think it was a very gutsy call by the Jags and their HC/GM, I commend them for it and would say the same about OB/Smith had they drafted Bortles, but apparently they just didn't see what the Jags saw.

Exactly.

He's a Texan now.

Rooting for someone on your own team to fail is asinine.

b0ng
05-24-2014, 08:29 AM
...."In the end Clowney was the smart pick and was made in large part based on fear; the team was afraid of passing up such a potentially dominant defender."

http://www.bigcatcountry.com/2014/5/21/5737952/blake-bortles-houston-texans-nfl-draft-2014

The Texans like so many here are guilty of thinking inside the box.

Oh the guys who run a Jaguars blog don't think Clowney was a smart pick? Word.

I don't think the Texans can go back and redo the draft to please you so I'm not sure why you're trying so hard to rage against the machine here. Everytime somebody brings up the 3 sack season for Clowney I just quietly assume that they didn't watch any Gamecocks games from '13. If you want to bring it up to bash the player without breaking down any of the game film from that season then go right ahead, but most people here won't pay attention to you or only give you the negative attention you seem to crave.

I haven't watched every snap of every Gamecocks game but I have watched the game vs Ark and FLA and while he didn't rack up sacks he did have plenty of impact on both of those games.

AngryNateFTW
05-24-2014, 09:25 AM
Exactly.

He's a Texan now.

Rooting for someone on your own team to fail is asinine.

It's Texian ' s job to argue the pick unless it was the guy he wanted. Just like when we drafted Watt he said "Get ready for multiple 4 sack years. "

Honoring Earl 34
05-24-2014, 09:28 AM
Best check what Jags have done in off season, free agency. Be better informed.



Not even close to Ware's initial first step quickness. In fact compared to Ware's 1.49 10 yd split, Clowney ran a paltry 1.56.

Really ... I don't see it but I'm not a chicken little . :firehair:

http://www.ourlads.com/nfldepthcharts/depthchart/JAX

Ware hit a 1.62 while Clay Matthews hit a 1.49 .

http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=55196&draftyear=2005&genpos=OLB

http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=57020&draftyear=2009&genpos=OLB

IDEXAN
05-24-2014, 09:44 AM
It's Texian ' s job to argue the pick unless it was the guy he wanted. Just like when we drafted Watt he said "Get ready for multiple 4 sack years. "
The pick is in, the Texans have made their selection, now it seems we should wait and see what the actual production will be on the field this fall for JD in a Houston Texans uniform. In other words the mans college career is now over, and it's time for him to write a new record in the NFL. That we can and will discuss, until then what's the point in continuing to rehash over and over again his college career ?

DBCooper
05-24-2014, 09:45 AM
It's Texian ' s job to argue the pick unless it was the guy he wanted. Just like when we drafted Watt he said "Get ready for multiple 4 sack years. "

Probably plays too much Fantasy and likes players that earn more points.

76Texan
05-24-2014, 10:00 AM
Best check what Jags have done in off season, free agency. Be better informed.



Not even close to Ware's initial first step quickness. In fact compared to Ware's 1.49 10 yd split, Clowney ran a paltry 1.56.

I don't know what the true numbers are, but NFLDraftScout had 1.59 for Clowney and 1.62 for Ware.

I don't think the 14-yd split alone is enough to measure initial quickness of the first step since the stands ate different.