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CloakNNNdagger
04-27-2014, 11:07 AM
I hope this is not just another campaign speech. The past dictates that the Texans have a pattern of REPEATING their mistakes.......far beyond the David Carr situation.


Posted by Michael David Smith on April 27, 2014, 11:55 AM EDT


In 2002, the Texans used the first draft pick in franchise history on David Carr, who was beaten up while playing on a bad team and never developed into the kind of player Houston wanted him to be. Now the Texans own the first overall pick again, and owner Bob McNair says his team has learned from its mistakes.

McNair says the Texans now realize that a rookie quarterback shouldn’t play until he’s ready, and a veteran quarterback as a placeholder can be a wise investment.

“I think the main thing I look back on is that we should have had a veteran quarterback in there,” McNair said. “We should have let him start the season and let David learn what it takes to be an NFL quarterback.”

That suggests that if the Texans draft a quarterback next week, they’ll be drafting him with the idea that he’ll sit on the bench and learn while Ryan Fitzpatrick or Case Keenum or T.J. Yates opens the season as the starter. McNair also wants to make sure the Texans can provide a young quarterback better protection than the expansion team’s offensive line gave Carr.

“We weren’t able to give Carr the kind of protection we thought he should have,” McNair said. “I don’t put a lot of blame on him.”

If the Texans do draft a quarterback, they have to hope they’re not making excuses for his failures a dozen years down the road.

IDEXAN
04-27-2014, 11:20 AM
“We weren’t able to give Carr the kind of protection we thought he should have,” McNair said. “I don’t put a lot of blame on him.”
*****
Is that an apology for screwing up David's career I'm hearing from McNair ? Maybe they are gonna take his little brother so they can make everything right with the Carr family ?

Playoffs
04-27-2014, 11:29 AM
Texans won’t repeat mistakes we made with David Carr

Because David isn't in this year's draft. :mail: :kitten:

texanhead08
04-27-2014, 11:41 AM
David isn't blameless in his lack of success, but the organization didn't exactly give him a chance to develop either. The lack of talent on the oline, bad offensive philosophy, and piss poor coaching played a role too.

I remember Steve Mckinney saying that Chris Palmer had our WR's running option routes in 2002 and you already have a rookie QB with a bad expansion team oline and you are running these slow developing plays instead of routes to get the ball out of his hand fast.

TheRealJoker
04-27-2014, 12:47 PM
Our OL would've looked a lot different had our bookend OTs not had injury issues.

beerlover
04-27-2014, 12:55 PM
Mario Williams wasn't exactly a resounding success either. The top DE since Peppers who they passed on the first time. Fast forward to 2014 does anyone doubt McNair & Company can repeat their mistakes again? seriously it could happen. here's a novel idea how about trading down, haven't tried that before so would not be repeating same mistake again :potkettle:

TheMatrix31
04-27-2014, 01:36 PM
I'd still rather have Mario Williams over the other options in 2006.

thunderkyss
04-27-2014, 01:51 PM
Mario Williams wasn't exactly a resounding success either. The top DE since Peppers who they passed on the first time. Fast forward to 2014 does anyone doubt McNair & Company can repeat their mistakes again? seriously it could happen. here's a novel idea how about trading down, haven't tried that before so would not be repeating same mistake again :potkettle:

Is there an expectation to win in the locker room?

That's the question to me. If the Texans locker room does not expect to win in 2014, then nothing's changed & whether we take Mario Williams, or David Carr, it won't make a difference.

If they're looking for a QB to give them a chance to win, or their #1 pick to be our defense, we're going down the same road. & unless we get a real special player, there's no way he can live up to that kind of 1-1 expectations.

Texian
04-27-2014, 02:03 PM
Sounds like old Bob is doing a little retracting from his December comments, "We are NOT rebuilding, we're a playoff team", statement.

I think there is no coincidence at all that the day after Blake Bortles Pro Day, the Texans signed QB Ryan Fitzpatrick. A veteran with 68 career starts in the NFL. Bob's 4/27 comments and the signing of Fitz go hand in hand. Drafting Bortles is kind of a NO brainer and don't expect to see Blake until the 2nd half of the season at the earliest.

thunderkyss
04-27-2014, 02:15 PM
double post

thunderkyss
04-27-2014, 02:16 PM
Sounds like old Bob is doing a little retracting from his December comments, "We are NOT rebuilding, we're a playoff team", statement.

I think there is no coincidence at all that the day after Blake Bortles Pro Day, the Texans signed QB Ryan Fitzpatrick. A veteran with 68 career starts in the NFL. Bob's 4/27 comments and the signing of Fitz go hand in hand. Drafting Bortles is kind of a NO brainer and don't expect to see Blake until the 2nd half of the season at the earliest.

Help me connect the dots.

How is it not rebuilding if we're not going to make the same mistakes we made with Carr?

How does signing Fitzpatrick a day after Bortles pro day point to drafting Bortles?

Why won't Bortles (or whoever our newest QB will be) not start until the 2nd half of the season? This one puzzles me the most. If it's a protection issue (like Bob says in the article, but I never believed it was a protection issue) what if we have it fixed before we start the season?

What if Borltes proves to give us a better chance to beat Washington (who's going through their own struggles), should we start Fitzpatrick because we paid him "so" much?

What if we're 0-6 thanks to spotty QB play & Bortles is the only healthy QB we have on the roster?

Texian
04-27-2014, 02:27 PM
Help me connect the dots. GLADLY

How is it not rebuilding if we're not going to make the same mistakes we made with Carr?

McNair says the Texans now realize that a rookie quarterback shouldn’t play until he’s ready, and a veteran quarterback as a placeholder can be a wise investment......THIS sounds like rebuilding to me.

How does signing Fitzpatrick a day after Bortles pro day point to drafting Bortles?

“I think the main thing I look back on is that we should have had a veteran quarterback in there,” McNair said. “We should have let him (a vet QB) start the season and let David learn what it takes to be an NFL quarterback.”


Why won't Bortles (or whoever our newest QB will be) not start until the 2nd half of the season? This one puzzles me the most. If it's a protection issue (like Bob says in the article, but I never believed it was a protection issue) what if we have it fixed before we start the season?

“We should have let him (a vet QB) start the season and let David learn what it takes to be an NFL quarterback.”


What if Borltes proves to give us a better chance to beat Washington (who's going through their own struggles), should we start Fitzpatrick because we paid him "so" much?

“We should have let him (a vet QB) start the season and let David learn what it takes to be an NFL quarterback.”

What if we're 0-6 thanks to spotty QB play & Bortles is the only healthy QB we have on the roster?

Maybe then....

Playoffs
04-27-2014, 02:36 PM
David isn't blameless in his lack of success...Blameful, imo.

In 2006, the team took 43 sacks total, 41 on Carr (a 5 year starter).

In 2007, the team took 22 sacks total on 60 more attempts.

We added Jordan Black and lost Zach Wiegert (OTs), and our first 4 draft picks were Amobi Okoye, Jacoby Jones, Fred Bennett, and Brandon Harrison.

So was it the offensive line, or was it the QB (Schaub/Rosenfels vs Carr)?

In 2007, Carr took 13 sacks in just 136 attempts for Carolina, a ~10% sack rate. Transposing to 2007 Texans attempts, that would've been 51 sacks.

You'd better draft pocket presence, because its darned near impossible to teach at this level.

thunderkyss
04-27-2014, 02:51 PM
Maybe then....

I saw your replies... didn't see any answers.

Just because we don't repeat the mistakes made with Carr does not mean we are rebuilding.

Signing Fitzpatrick the day after Bortles pro day does not in any way signal we're taking Bortles over any other QB in this draft.

Our rookie QB will start day 1 if he's ready. Just because Carr wasn't, doesn't mean that Bortles (or whoever we draft) won't be. Three years later, Carr wasn't ready to start, doesn't mean our new QB won't start for three years.

IDEXAN
04-27-2014, 02:54 PM
Mario Williams wasn't exactly a resounding success either. The top DE since Peppers who they passed on the first time. Fast forward to 2014 does anyone doubt McNair & Company can repeat their mistakes again? seriously it could happen. here's a novel idea how about trading down, haven't tried that before so would not be repeating same mistake again :potkettle:
But how can you say that when the free agents market rewarded him with the top dollar contract of any defensive player ever at that point in time ? The NFL ultimately is a business, and the market spoke loud and clear about Mario's value when his services became available.

CloakNNNdagger
04-27-2014, 03:24 PM
But how can you say that when the free agents market rewarded him with the top dollar contract of any defensive player ever at that point in time ? The NFL ultimately is a business, and the market spoke loud and clear about Mario's value when his services became available.

A specific market known for its spoiled goods. I find it very difficult to have listened to a rudderless voice coming out of the wilderness...........the wilderness known as Buffalo. I suspect the Jills have most likely been making most of their important decisions over the years............Now that the Jills are no longer in existence, what will they do?........what will they do?:thinking:

Texian
04-27-2014, 03:59 PM
I saw your replies... didn't see any answers.

Just because we don't repeat the mistakes made with Carr does not mean we are rebuilding.

Signing Fitzpatrick the day after Bortles pro day does not in any way signal we're taking Bortles over any other QB in this draft.

Our rookie QB will start day 1 if he's ready. Just because Carr wasn't, doesn't mean that Bortles (or whoever we draft) won't be. Three years later, Carr wasn't ready to start, doesn't mean our new QB won't start for three years.

I'm just going with what Bob said this week, unlike Carr, a Texans rookie QB today, would sit and learn, behind a vet QB. Pretty easy to understand if you ask me.

thunderkyss
04-27-2014, 04:08 PM
I'm just going with what Bob said this week, unlike Carr, a Texans rookie QB today, would sit and learn, behind a vet QB. Pretty easy to understand if you ask me.

If that's what you said, we would have a different set of questions (as I don't believe that's what McNair said).


But you said that we're rebuilding because we don't want to make the same mistakes we made with Carr.

I'm asking how you connect the two totally irrelevant happenstances.

You said signing Fitzpatrick points to us drafting Bortles...... again two ideas I'd like to understand how you connect.

You said since we're not going to start our young QB until we're able to protect our young QB means our newest QB won't start until some time after the midway point of the season. I'm asking what if we can protect him as early as week 1, or week 2, or week 5, or any time before week 8?

Texian
04-27-2014, 04:19 PM
If that's what you said, we would have a different set of questions (as I don't believe that's what McNair said).


Did you not read post #1 and what Bob said in the interview this week with Michael David Smith? If not, return to go and read post 1.

thunderkyss
04-27-2014, 04:46 PM
Posted by Michael David Smith (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/04/27/bob-mcnair-texans-wont-repeat-mistakes-we-made-with-david-carr/) on April 27, 2014, 11:55 AM EDT


In 2002, the Texans used the first draft pick in franchise history on David Carr, who was beaten up while playing on a bad team and never developed into the kind of player Houston wanted him to be. Now the Texans own the first overall pick again, and owner Bob McNair says his team has learned from its mistakes.

McNair says the Texans now realize that a rookie quarterback shouldn’t play until he’s ready, and a veteran quarterback as a placeholder can be a wise investment.


All this tells me, is that McNair admits that David was not ready. Has absolutely no bearing on whether our next rookie QB is ready or not. However, if he is not ready this statement suggests he will not start.



Posted by Michael David Smith (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/04/27/bob-mcnair-texans-wont-repeat-mistakes-we-made-with-david-carr/) on April 27, 2014, 11:55 AM EDT
“I think the main thing I look back on is that we should have had a veteran quarterback in there,” McNair said. “We should have let him start the season and let David learn what it takes to be an NFL quarterback.”


This is still talking about David Carr. It only pertains to our next QB if he is not ready. If he is ready & the team is good enough to support him it is possible that he'll start like Russell Wilson did, or Andrew Luck, or Matthew Stafford.



Posted by Michael David Smith (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/04/27/bob-mcnair-texans-wont-repeat-mistakes-we-made-with-david-carr/) on April 27, 2014, 11:55 AM EDT
That suggests that if the Texans draft a quarterback next week, they’ll be drafting him with the idea that he’ll sit on the bench and learn while Ryan Fitzpatrick or Case Keenum or T.J. Yates opens the season as the starter. McNair also wants to make sure the Texans can provide a young quarterback better protection than the expansion team’s offensive line gave Carr.

This is where the reporter strays from reporting the news & adds his own commentary. However, McNair's comments do not suggest what he believes at all. They may be drafting him with the idea that he will compete for the starting job. McNair's comments about David Carr have nothing to do with the Texans "ideas" about a new QB, Fitzpatrick, Keenum, or Tj.

If McNair's comments suggests wanting a strong offensive line, that could also have draft implications.


Posted by Michael David Smith (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/04/27/bob-mcnair-texans-wont-repeat-mistakes-we-made-with-david-carr/) on April 27, 2014, 11:55 AM EDT
“We weren’t able to give Carr the kind of protection we thought he should have,” McNair said. “I don’t put a lot of blame on him.”

If the Texans do draft a quarterback, they have to hope they’re not making excuses for his failures a dozen years down the road.


That last statement, the one that starts with "if" also suggests the possibility that the Texans won't draft a QB in the 2014 draft at all. After all, the Texans have not had much success drafting QBs period. But have had success with QBs they've traded for or signing veteran QBs.

Nitrofish
04-27-2014, 04:53 PM
Did you not read post #1 and what Bob said in the interview this week with Michael David Smith? If not, return to go and read post 1.

Yea... and do not collect $200 :kitten:

mussop
04-27-2014, 05:23 PM
I'm just going with what Bob said this week, unlike Carr, a Texans rookie QB today, would sit and learn, behind a vet QB. Pretty easy to understand if you ask me.

Actually he said this months ago.

Goatcheese
04-27-2014, 06:00 PM
Only on Texans Talk could a player averaging nearly 10 sacks/season (despite injuries) be considered not "exactly a resounding success."

For reference: Sacks per game through first 8 seasons
Mario Williams 0.67
Julius pepper 0.66

Thorn
04-27-2014, 06:37 PM
Bah. You never know what kind of player you're getting until you put them on the field anyway.

DBCooper
04-27-2014, 08:37 PM
Damn..........is the draft over yet?

Big Lou
04-28-2014, 08:26 AM
Damn..........is the draft over yet?

No, some dumbass thought it would be a good idea to have it in November this year.

Hervoyel
04-28-2014, 10:35 AM
Translation: "Texans have all new and exciting mistakes up their sleeves this time!"

Sorry, it's just the first thing that pops into my head when Bob McNair starts talking.

Double Barrel
04-28-2014, 10:51 AM
On "rebuilding" or not...

http://www.quotehd.com/imagequotes/authors2/douglas-adams-writer-quote-if-it-looks-like-a-duck-and-quacks-like-a.jpg

DX-TEX
04-28-2014, 10:58 AM
So we are NOT going to hire Dom Capers as head coach again?

Well that's a positive

Playoffs
04-28-2014, 12:01 PM
Actually he said this months ago.As did O'Brien: http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2317567#post2317567

On "rebuilding" or not...Yep. Mr. McNair & Rick got the bad news (http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2311825#post2311825) after O'Brien and his staff finished their roster/player evaluations (http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2302334&highlight=rick#post2302334).

badboy
04-28-2014, 01:19 PM
Damn..........is the draft over yet?
Yes it is where were you?Are you satisfied that we traded all 2014 picks for picks in 2015? My sources tell me we are going to move up and take Winston..if he is not in prison.

leebigeztx
04-28-2014, 02:17 PM
Blameful, imo.

In 2006, the team took 43 sacks total, 41 on Carr (a 5 year starter).

In 2007, the team took 22 sacks total on 60 more attempts.

We added Jordan Black and lost Zach Wiegert (OTs), and our first 4 draft picks were Amobi Okoye, Jacoby Jones, Fred Bennett, and Brandon Harrison.

So was it the offensive line, or was it the QB (Schaub/Rosenfels vs Carr)?

In 2007, Carr took 13 sacks in just 136 attempts for Carolina, a ~10% sack rate. Transposing to 2007 Texans attempts, that would've been 51 sacks.

You'd better draft pocket presence, because its darned near impossible to teach at this level.

That's my point and that's why I still think TB is the best qb in this draft and should be taken early. Pocket presence and poise matters. Knowing situational football is a great assett. If its 3 and 3 on the negative side of the field and you can throw a bomb or dump it off and move the chains,that's situational football. Even the best qbs in the nfl complete balls 30 yds down the field at less than 50%. Move the chains,know the situation on down and distance and make the plays when neccessary.

Davis Carr as a college sr had pocket issues like his brother. Even when the line gave him protaction, he ran out of bounds behind the los. The dude because of his family obligations was not the 1st guy in and the last to leave. All that stuff matters in picking a qb.

kingtexan
04-28-2014, 02:46 PM
David isn't blameless in his lack of success, but the organization didn't exactly give him a chance to develop either. The lack of talent on the oline, bad offensive philosophy, and piss poor coaching played a role too.

I remember Steve Mckinney saying that Chris Palmer had our WR's running option routes in 2002 and you already have a rookie QB with a bad expansion team oline and you are running these slow developing plays instead of routes to get the ball out of his hand fast.

Rep.

Organization didn't give him what he needed to succeed, and CP was a QB killer from word go.

Carr developed some bad habits and shoulders some responsibility, but majority is on the team. Should have fortified the O-line and let him sit, before throwing him to the wolves.

Vinnie
04-28-2014, 04:21 PM
Jeebus save us from the offseason.

Wolf6151
04-29-2014, 01:47 AM
Quote:
Posted by Michael David Smith on April 27, 2014, 11:55 AM EDT


In 2002, the Texans used the first draft pick in franchise history on David Carr, who was beaten up while playing on a bad team and never developed into the kind of player Houston wanted him to be. Now the Texans own the first overall pick again, and owner Bob McNair says his team has learned from its mistakes.

McNair says the Texans now realize that a rookie quarterback shouldn’t play until he’s ready, and a veteran quarterback as a placeholder can be a wise investment.

“I think the main thing I look back on is that we should have had a veteran quarterback in there,” McNair said. “We should have let him start the season and let David learn what it takes to be an NFL quarterback.”

That suggests that if the Texans draft a quarterback next week, they’ll be drafting him with the idea that he’ll sit on the bench and learn while Ryan Fitzpatrick or Case Keenum or T.J. Yates opens the season as the starter. McNair also wants to make sure the Texans can provide a young quarterback better protection than the expansion team’s offensive line gave Carr.

“We weren’t able to give Carr the kind of protection we thought he should have,” McNair said. “I don’t put a lot of blame on him.”

If the Texans do draft a quarterback, they have to hope they’re not making excuses for his failures a dozen years down the road.



I call Bull**** on the 2 highlighted areas. McNair was more interested in recouping his investment by selling seats and jerseys than on winning games or really building a successful team from the inside out. He drafted the pretty boy QB and trotted him out there as a face of the franchise. McNair was much more interested in money than wins. The Texans were absolutely able to get some protection for Carr, but O-line isn't a sexy position and doesn't sell tickets. We're 12 yrs. into this franchise now and the Texans have never made the O-line a high priority.

Norg
04-29-2014, 02:09 AM
excuse Carr last year here he had a pretty decent NFL Oline

if I remember Wade smith a rookie Winston and ma Kenny was a decent center but he was earlier


either way near the end after we got past all our Oline injury issues we had a decent line


look all the NFL teams go through Oline issues they key is or what it seems like now days u don't invest in a lot of high draft picks in your line


U get your highest payed LT and a good center and bam slap in some guards and RT and hope for the best

Double Barrel
04-29-2014, 10:45 AM
I call Bull**** on the 2 highlighted areas. McNair was more interested in recouping his investment by selling seats and jerseys than on winning games or really building a successful team from the inside out. He drafted the pretty boy QB and trotted him out there as a face of the franchise. McNair was much more interested in money than wins. The Texans were absolutely able to get some protection for Carr, but O-line isn't a sexy position and doesn't sell tickets. We're 12 yrs. into this franchise now and the Texans have never made the O-line a high priority.

Vinny was once quoted as saying the Texans were a marketing company with a football division.

And that perspective came from decisions like starting David Carr, who looked good in a Texans uniform and was immediately made the "face of the franchise" from the point he was drafted in April 2002. I've got Texans merchandise from that period - between the draft and pre-season - that has Carr in majestic poses with his chiseled chin and dude looked like a model. How could they NOT start him after all the publicity?

While I cannot say I feel sorry for David Carr - he did get paid tens of millions, after all - I can say that he was never put in position to be taught and molded to succeed as an NFL QB. Dude had potential, but it was never fully reached because of the inherent dysfunctional nature of an expansion team.

I'll give it to McNair for owning up to mistakes, though. A lot of owners would never admit such a thing, but he clearly feels some regret, and I have to respect him for his honesty in that regard.

Texian
04-29-2014, 11:25 AM
As long as Bob McNair has this "WIN NOW" mentality and "I will spend whatever it takes," attitude his Houston Texans will continue to wallow in the mire and the fans will continue to sing, "C'mon Bob Light My Fire, The time to hesitate is through."

The day that McNair begins to plan for tomorrow, including responsible long term money management will be the day that WIN NOW will start to take care of itself.

drs23
04-29-2014, 03:54 PM
As long as Bob McNair has this "WIN NOW" mentality and "I will spend whatever it takes," attitude his Houston Texans will continue to wallow in the mire and the fans will continue to sing, "C'mon Bob Light My Fire, The time to hesitate is through."

The day that McNair begins to plan for tomorrow, including responsible long term money management will be the day that WIN NOW will start to take care of itself.

What makes you think the fruit of that foresight isn't taking shape now? I see the moves they made(shedding several overpaid contracts)/didn't make (throwing money away in FA) as a positive start toward turning this franchise around. I think anyone with an open mind, sans an agenda (which I KNOW is too much for some to give up).

I would agree that's it's too early to know for sure but it seems to me they've been proactive as far as the cap is concerned and we only have to wait a little over a week to see how the draft plays out.

I'm off the Kool-Aid but at the same time am willing to take a wait and see stance before I'm ready to pull the pitch fork out. I know that's not an overly popular stance. So be it.

steelbtexan
04-29-2014, 06:16 PM
Quote:
Posted by Michael David Smith on April 27, 2014, 11:55 AM EDT


In 2002, the Texans used the first draft pick in franchise history on David Carr, who was beaten up while playing on a bad team and never developed into the kind of player Houston wanted him to be. Now the Texans own the first overall pick again, and owner Bob McNair says his team has learned from its mistakes.

McNair says the Texans now realize that a rookie quarterback shouldn’t play until he’s ready, and a veteran quarterback as a placeholder can be a wise investment.

“I think the main thing I look back on is that we should have had a veteran quarterback in there,” McNair said. “We should have let him start the season and let David learn what it takes to be an NFL quarterback.”

That suggests that if the Texans draft a quarterback next week, they’ll be drafting him with the idea that he’ll sit on the bench and learn while Ryan Fitzpatrick or Case Keenum or T.J. Yates opens the season as the starter. McNair also wants to make sure the Texans can provide a young quarterback better protection than the expansion team’s offensive line gave Carr.

“We weren’t able to give Carr the kind of protection we thought he should have,” McNair said. “I don’t put a lot of blame on him.”

If the Texans do draft a quarterback, they have to hope they’re not making excuses for his failures a dozen years down the road.



I call Bull**** on the 2 highlighted areas. McNair was more interested in recouping his investment by selling seats and jerseys than on winning games or really building a successful team from the inside out. He drafted the pretty boy QB and trotted him out there as a face of the franchise. McNair was much more interested in money than wins. The Texans were absolutely able to get some protection for Carr, but O-line isn't a sexy position and doesn't sell tickets. We're 12 yrs. into this franchise now and the Texans have never made the O-line a high priority.

Repped

Hopefully McNair has learned from his mistakes and builds a solid foundation 1st.

steelbtexan
04-29-2014, 06:30 PM
What makes you think the fruit of that foresight isn't taking shape now? I see the moves they made(shedding several overpaid contracts)/didn't make (throwing money away in FA) as a positive start toward turning this franchise around. I think anyone with an open mind, sans an agenda (which I KNOW is too much for some to give up).

I would agree that's it's too early to know for sure but it seems to me they've been proactive as far as the cap is concerned and we only have to wait a little over a week to see how the draft plays out.

I'm off the Kool-Aid but at the same time am willing to take a wait and see stance before I'm ready to pull the pitch fork out. I know that's not an overly popular stance. So be it.

I admire your stance.

I wish I felt the same way, but a decade of medicore at best football has jaded me to the point I expect the Texans org to screw the pooch.

What would it take for you to pull out the pitch forks. The pitch forks should've come out after the 6-10 2010 season.

Texian
04-29-2014, 06:37 PM
What makes you think the fruit of that foresight isn't taking shape now? I see the moves they made(shedding several overpaid contracts)/didn't make (throwing money away in FA) as a positive start toward turning this franchise around. I think anyone with an open mind, sans an agenda (which I KNOW is too much for some to give up).

I would agree that's it's too early to know for sure but it seems to me they've been proactive as far as the cap is concerned and we only have to wait a little over a week to see how the draft plays out.

I'm off the Kool-Aid but at the same time am willing to take a wait and see stance before I'm ready to pull the pitch fork out. I know that's not an overly popular stance. So be it.

The term long term planning has a different meaning for some, with or without an agenda. I too, think it's to early to tell about the new changes. However the initial transactions are somewhat concerning to me.

Releasing Daniels and signing Graham at 80% of Daniel's salary is something I wouldn't have done. Especially with Graham rating as one of the worst at his position by PFF. By keeping Daniels another year and letting him be a FA in 15' a 16' comp would've been in order.

The same is true with Manning. Keeping Manning for a year and then letting him become a FA would've been another comp pick in 2016. Why throw these comp picks away? These early transactions have been short and long term steps backwards for the Texans.

The reason the Texans have NOT thrown money away in free agency these last two years is because they haven't had the money available to throw away at free agency these last two years.

PapaL
04-29-2014, 09:47 PM
Yes it is where were you?Are you satisfied that we traded all 2014 picks for picks in 2015? My sources tell me we are going to move up and take Winston..if he is not in prison.


Didn't we draft him and cut him once already? :kitten:

Texecutioner
04-29-2014, 10:03 PM
I hate hearing the excuses for David Carr. Most franchises that have the #1 pick don't have great protection for a young QB. That's why they have the #1 pick.

Carr didn't study film nearly enough and he has admitted that himself. He didn't study defenses and become a master at recognizing coverages and take on that leadership role. Sure, the Texans had some negligence at the Oline, but the Steelers had that problem for years with Ben and so did that Packers with Rodgers and both guys played through it and had some great seasons. Carr was never going to be a good QB no matter where he played or what the Texans did.

Goatcheese
04-30-2014, 04:07 AM
What would it take for you to pull out the pitch forks. The pitch forks should've come out after the 6-10 2010 season.

We won back to back division titles and had playoff wins in 2011 and 2012. Maybe you should reevaluate the things that make you whip out the pitchforks.

Texian
04-30-2014, 07:32 AM
We won back to back division titles and had playoff wins in 2011 and 2012. Maybe you should reevaluate the things that make you whip out the pitchforks.

Like everything you've to take the good with bad. The good is what you've mentioned above. The bad is, it happened when Peyton was sitting on the sideline, Jeff Fisher had resigned, since then Andrew Luck is now the Colts QB, Gus Bradley is Jags HC, Ken Whisenhunt is Titans HC and the Texans don't have a QB.

badboy
04-30-2014, 07:38 AM
The term long term planning has a different meaning for some, with or without an agenda. I too, think it's to early to tell about the new changes. However the initial transactions are somewhat concerning to me.

Releasing Daniels and signing Graham at 80% of Daniel's salary is something I wouldn't have done. Especially with Graham rating as one of the worst at his position by PFF. By keeping Daniels another year and letting him be a FA in 15' a 16' comp would've been in order.

The same is true with Manning. Keeping Manning for a year and then letting him become a FA would've been another comp pick in 2016. Why throw these comp picks away? These early transactions have been short and long term steps backwards for the Texans.

The reason the Texans have NOT thrown money away in free agency these last two years is because they haven't had the money available to throw away at free agency these last two years.OD was 20% better than "one of the worst" & you want him? They must think the players replacing these two will be better. It might be wrong to assume Graham will start.

Texian
04-30-2014, 07:58 AM
OD was 20% better than "one of the worst" & you want him? They must think the players replacing these two will be better. It might be wrong to assume Graham will start.


You missed the point. According to PFF Daniels ranked 26th and Graham 56th. By keeping Daniels for another year you gain a comp pick in 2016. Now you don't and you're NOT any better off for it.

badboy
04-30-2014, 08:28 AM
You missed the point. According to PFF Daniels ranked 26th and Graham 56th. By keeping Daniels for another year you gain a comp pick in 2016. Now you don't and you're NOT any better off for it.26 is much better than 56. Perhaps OD's injury history was a factor.

JB
04-30-2014, 08:30 AM
You missed the point. According to PFF Daniels ranked 26th and Graham 56th. By keeping Daniels for another year you gain a comp pick in 2016. Now you don't and you're NOT any better off for it.

Conducting business based on whether you may or may not get a comp pick two years down the road is sheer folly

DBCooper
04-30-2014, 08:41 AM
Like everything you've to take the good with bad. The good is what you've mentioned above. The bad is, it happened when Peyton was sitting on the sideline, Jeff Fisher had resigned, since then Andrew Luck is now the Colts QB, Gus Bradley is Jags HC, Ken Whisenhunt is Titans HC and the Texans don't have a QB.

I love this logic!

Right up there with the Rockets only won back to back championships because Jordan went to play baseball.

Texian
04-30-2014, 09:04 AM
26 is much better than 56. Perhaps OD's injury history was a factor.

It didn't seem to be with Baltimore.

Conducting business based on whether you may or may not get a comp pick two years down the road is sheer folly

This might make sense if the team was actually taking steps forward but they're not. Actually they took 3 steps backwards in the process of releasing Daniels and Manning and have replaced them with much worse players. Come 2016 you will wish you had those 2 comp picks. Some folks can plan for the future, some folks can't.

JB
04-30-2014, 09:10 AM
It didn't seem to be with Baltimore.



This might make sense if the team was actually taking steps forward but they're not. Actually they took 3 steps backwards in the process of releasing Daniels and Manning and have replaced them with much worse players. Come 2016 you will wish you had those 2 comp picks. Some folks can plan for the future, some folks can't.

The draft hasn't been held yet, fa period is not over, ota's haven't started. You don't have a clue what they may or may not be planning for those positions

badboy
04-30-2014, 09:10 AM
Conducting business based on whether you may or may not get a comp pick two years down the road is sheer follyI get your point but it should be considered.

Texian
04-30-2014, 09:52 AM
The draft hasn't been held yet, fa period is not over, ota's haven't started. You don't have a clue what they may or may not be planning for those positions

Actually I do have somewhat of a clue what they might do in FA. Not much! The Texans do not have the money (cap space) to do much of anything except a few vet minimums to fill out their roster.

JB
04-30-2014, 10:10 AM
Actually I do have somewhat of a clue what they might do in FA. Not much! The Texans do not have the money (cap space) to do much of anything except a few vet minimums to fill out their roster.

Ok, you have a point (as it stands right now). But there is still the draft and the option of reworking contracts if OB doesn't think that Graham and Griffin can do what he wants done AND/OR he can't utilize what they can do.

It's too early for me to look on the negative side the roster until I see how they fill that roster and plan to utilize it.

Just because they haven't done things in a manner that you approve of doesn't make it a bad decision

Texian
04-30-2014, 10:22 AM
Ok, you have a point (as it stands right now). But there is still the draft and the option of reworking contracts if OB doesn't think that Graham and Griffin can do what he wants done AND/OR he can't utilize what they can do.

It's too early for me to look on the negative side the roster until I see how they fill that roster and plan to utilize it.

Just because they haven't done things in a manner that you approve of doesn't make it a bad decision

I said at the beginning it was early, no argument there. Also OB is a rookie HC in the NFL. I expect OB to make some rookie HC mistakes. I was just pointing out that the initial transactions made from OB is something I wouldn't have necessarily done. I am on record and have been saying for years that there is HC think and there is GM think. The Daniels, Manning decisions fall under HC think and NOT GM think IMHO.

steelbtexan
04-30-2014, 10:39 AM
We won back to back division titles and had playoff wins in 2011 and 2012. Maybe you should reevaluate the things that make you whip out the pitchforks.

And got blown out by good teams in the playoffs.

CloakNNNdagger
04-30-2014, 02:10 PM
It didn't seem to be with Baltimore.


Makes me think that some of the culture of taking chances on players with significant injury history has traveled east with Kubiak.

Goatcheese
04-30-2014, 02:46 PM
And got blown out by good teams in the playoffs.

Losing to the Ravens by 7 with a rookie late round QB, and 13 to the Patriots in a shootout isn't what any intelligent person would call getting "blown out".

Again, only on Texans talk. :kubepalm:

steelbtexan
04-30-2014, 08:12 PM
Losing to the Ravens by 7 with a rookie late round QB, and 13 to the Patriots in a shootout isn't what any intelligent person would call getting "blown out".

Again, only on Texans talk. :kubepalm:

Agreed on the Ravens

The pats game was hardly a shootout. Unless we have diferent definitions of the word shootout. That game was over after the 1st qtr.

Sorry that I've got different expectations of my favorite team than getting a wildcard wins a couple of yrs out of a decade. I could see how that would be good enough for the Aggie crowd, since they haven't known what it's like to be the best 1940.

This is the crowd that the Texans org is counting on to fill Reliant and probably the main reason Manziel will be a Texan, whether it be at 1-1 or a trade down to 1-6 with Atlanta, or a trade up if JM falls to the 13-16 range. (Gotta keep them Aggies coming out to the ole ballpark.)

thunderkyss
04-30-2014, 08:42 PM
Sorry that I've got different expectations of my favorite team than getting a wildcard wins a couple of yrs out of a decade. I could see how that would be good enough for the Aggie crowd, since they haven't known what it's like to be the best 1940.


I don't have a problem with your expectations. My issue is that it's like you expect McNair to change the past. He can't.

The first 4 years were a flop. He realized that. The only thing he can do from that point is to scrap it all & start over, which he did.

He doesn't deserve any more criticism for what happened the first four years. He saw it, he did what we had to do & we moved forward.

Over the next 4 year period, we only had one losing season & finally had a winning season. I'll put it another way. He took a failed expansion team from losers to winners in 4 years.

Some people expected play offs in that time. I admit, it would have been nice. It didn't happen. Could any other coach/GM combination come in & rebuild a failed expansion team & win a Super Bowl in 4 seasons? Could another coach/GM combination come in & take that failed team to a play off game?

I doubt it. Why? Because we haven't seen it anywhere else. Haven't seen it with the Browns. The Browns have fired coaches & GMs & changed owners like "everyone" wants here & they are not the better for it.

After the initial success of the Panthers & the Jags... they haven't done much since. The Panthers got to the Super Bowl, with a team not very different from what we started with last season. So maybe that's saying something, but overall those teams have not been any better than the Texans over the last 4 years.

So what if they fired Kubiak/Smith after 2010, what would you have expected? A play off berth? A division championship? A Play off win? Heck, you probably think the Colts are a better team than we are, but we've done better than them over the last three years.

First 4 years, we sucked. Get over it. We can't change it. McNair can't do anything about it.

Second 4 years, he turned this thing around. We were the Browns, we were the Lions.

Third 4 years, better than half the league. Think about it. Go look. We were better than half the league over the last 4 years.

Hopefully McNair has made moves that will make our next 4 years better than 2/3rds of the league. Hopefully four years from now, we'll look back & realize we were a top 10 team over that time period.

Because that's where we are at. We're on the brink of being a top 10 team in this league, or falling back into mediocrity.

Texian
05-01-2014, 07:45 PM
Just because they haven't done things in a manner that you approve of doesn't make it a bad decision

It doesn't necessarily make it a good decision either.

badboy
05-01-2014, 09:24 PM
I don't have a problem with your expectations. My issue is that it's like you expect McNair to change the past. He can't.

The first 4 years were a flop. He realized that. The only thing he can do from that point is to scrap it all & start over, which he did.

He doesn't deserve any more criticism for what happened the first four years. He saw it, he did what we had to do & we moved forward.

Over the next 4 year period, we only had one losing season & finally had a winning season. I'll put it another way. He took a failed expansion team from losers to winners in 4 years.

Some people expected play offs in that time. I admit, it would have been nice. It didn't happen. Could any other coach/GM combination come in & rebuild a failed expansion team & win a Super Bowl in 4 seasons? Could another coach/GM combination come in & take that failed team to a play off game?

I doubt it. Why? Because we haven't seen it anywhere else. Haven't seen it with the Browns. The Browns have fired coaches & GMs & changed owners like "everyone" wants here & they are not the better for it.

After the initial success of the Panthers & the Jags... they haven't done much since. The Panthers got to the Super Bowl, with a team not very different from what we started with last season. So maybe that's saying something, but overall those teams have not been any better than the Texans over the last 4 years.

So what if they fired Kubiak/Smith after 2010, what would you have expected? A play off berth? A division championship? A Play off win? Heck, you probably think the Colts are a better team than we are, but we've done better than them over the last three years.

First 4 years, we sucked. Get over it. We can't change it. McNair can't do anything about it.

Second 4 years, he turned this thing around. We were the Browns, we were the Lions.

Third 4 years, better than half the league. Think about it. Go look. We were better than half the league over the last 4 years.

Hopefully McNair has made moves that will make our next 4 years better than 2/3rds of the league. Hopefully four years from now, we'll look back & realize we were a top 10 team over that time period.

Because that's where we are at. We're on the brink of being a top 10 team in this league, or falling back into mediocrity.
I agree that this year is very key to quality of next few years & why I am so focused on this draft. We can bring in starters as low as fifth round & greatly improve this roster or the bottom can fall out. A so so draft and couple of injuries to key vets and we could be "deja vuing" all over again in 12 months.

Brown, Watt and Cushing (again) miss most of a season and we should all go get drunk. We not only need to add starters but improve our depth

Scooter
05-02-2014, 12:59 AM
I don't have a problem with your expectations. My issue is that it's like you expect McNair to change the past. He can't.

The first 4 years were a flop. He realized that. The only thing he can do from that point is to scrap it all & start over, which he did.

He doesn't deserve any more criticism for what happened the first four years. He saw it, he did what we had to do & we moved forward.

Over the next 4 year period, we only had one losing season & finally had a winning season. I'll put it another way. He took a failed expansion team from losers to winners in 4 years.

Some people expected play offs in that time. I admit, it would have been nice. It didn't happen. Could any other coach/GM combination come in & rebuild a failed expansion team & win a Super Bowl in 4 seasons? Could another coach/GM combination come in & take that failed team to a play off game?

I doubt it. Why? Because we haven't seen it anywhere else. Haven't seen it with the Browns. The Browns have fired coaches & GMs & changed owners like "everyone" wants here & they are not the better for it.

After the initial success of the Panthers & the Jags... they haven't done much since. The Panthers got to the Super Bowl, with a team not very different from what we started with last season. So maybe that's saying something, but overall those teams have not been any better than the Texans over the last 4 years.

So what if they fired Kubiak/Smith after 2010, what would you have expected? A play off berth? A division championship? A Play off win? Heck, you probably think the Colts are a better team than we are, but we've done better than them over the last three years.

First 4 years, we sucked. Get over it. We can't change it. McNair can't do anything about it.

Second 4 years, he turned this thing around. We were the Browns, we were the Lions.

Third 4 years, better than half the league. Think about it. Go look. We were better than half the league over the last 4 years.

Hopefully McNair has made moves that will make our next 4 years better than 2/3rds of the league. Hopefully four years from now, we'll look back & realize we were a top 10 team over that time period.

Because that's where we are at. We're on the brink of being a top 10 team in this league, or falling back into mediocrity.

well said.
+rep

Scooter
05-02-2014, 01:27 AM
we did it wrong under capers and casserly. "it" being everything. as a quote of a quote said - we were a marketing company with a football division. mcnair hadnt the foggiest idea what he was doing so he got the coach who had success (got lucky) with an expansion, a GM who had success (got lucky) under a great head coach, and a face of the franchise qb first. we looked good, but had zero substance and predictably failed spectacularly.

we did it right the second time. we got a head coach who knew what he was doing, and had a proven successful system with his name attached to it's development. he was a rookie with zero oversight though because he had the most experience in the organization. we grew from 1 wide receiver to an extremely strong core because of that experience however. several bumps in the road, and the first time coach wasnt quite up to the task because a few shortcomings trampled several strengths.

now we have another coach who is again a rookie, but took a more varied path to get here. he's bringing in veteran assistants opposite his strengths right away instead of more rookies in his young tree. like the first two attempts, we need a quarterback to carry the team, but we learned with carr that it's not safe to throw a rookie into an unstable situation. we learned with schaub that experience can bring the team together. that's what mcnair's saying, and why we brought in fitz - if we do take a quarterback early, fitz is what tony banks should've been - the guy with the experience to hold it together or take the hits while we mold our future safely. we also have a wildcard or two in the previous regime's projects - yates and keenum, both of which could be used as either a hail mary hope over fitz, or as the veteran fodder for the draft pick.

we all want superbowls every season, but as i said in 2003, i'm going to be here for the long haul. as long as i see growth, i'm going to keep the faith. we're the youngest franchise in the league and our senior citizen is 32 years old. this coaching staff is starting off better prepared than the last, and we enter this third attempt with 8+ players who've been to the probowl, and at least 4 all pro's. it's not always pretty, but we're still moving in the right direction.

edit: drunk rambling.

Scooter
05-02-2014, 02:07 AM
The pats game was hardly a shootout. Unless we have diferent definitions of the word shootout. That game was over after the 1st qtr.

truth. the box score tends to distort memories, this was never a game. there were a couple moments that could've drastically changed the course, such as the owen daniels (or was it casey?) drop, but the game as it went was a very ugly blowout.

thunderkyss
05-02-2014, 02:13 AM
truth. the box score tends to distort memories, this was never a game. there were a couple moments that could've drastically changed the course, such as the owen daniels (or was it casey?) drop, but the game as it went was a very ugly blowout.

That's not the way I remember it.

Don't remember a shootout either.

We were in that game until midway through the third, when the wheels fell off. I'm not blaming Schaub for that loss, but there was at least two moments that could have made "Matt Schuab" but he choked & the rest is history.

I think those moments are what started all the "We need Schaub to step up" talk from the FO that offseason (deservedly so) & that's what screwed up his head for 2013. He tried to become "the play maker" & he's just not that guy.

ObsiWan
05-02-2014, 03:14 AM
I don't have a problem with your expectations. My issue is that it's like you expect McNair to change the past. He can't.

The first 4 years were a flop. He realized that. The only thing he can do from that point is to scrap it all & start over, which he did.

He doesn't deserve any more criticism for what happened the first four years. He saw it, he did what we had to do & we moved forward.

Over the next 4 year period, we only had one losing season & finally had a winning season. I'll put it another way. He took a failed expansion team from losers to winners in 4 years.

Some people expected play offs in that time. I admit, it would have been nice. It didn't happen. Could any other coach/GM combination come in & rebuild a failed expansion team & win a Super Bowl in 4 seasons? Could another coach/GM combination come in & take that failed team to a play off game?

I doubt it. Why? Because we haven't seen it anywhere else. Haven't seen it with the Browns. The Browns have fired coaches & GMs & changed owners like "everyone" wants here & they are not the better for it.

After the initial success of the Panthers & the Jags... they haven't done much since. The Panthers got to the Super Bowl, with a team not very different from what we started with last season. So maybe that's saying something, but overall those teams have not been any better than the Texans over the last 4 years.

So what if they fired Kubiak/Smith after 2010, what would you have expected? A play off berth? A division championship? A Play off win? Heck, you probably think the Colts are a better team than we are, but we've done better than them over the last three years.

First 4 years, we sucked. Get over it. We can't change it. McNair can't do anything about it.

Second 4 years, he turned this thing around. We were the Browns, we were the Lions.

Third 4 years, better than half the league. Think about it. Go look. We were better than half the league over the last 4 years.

Hopefully McNair has made moves that will make our next 4 years better than 2/3rds of the league. Hopefully four years from now, we'll look back & realize we were a top 10 team over that time period.

Because that's where we are at. We're on the brink of being a top 10 team in this league, or falling back into mediocrity.
Must spread rep.
Some hold on to the past like a vengeful spouse who will never let you forget the fact that you forgot an anniversary ten years ago.

Texian
05-02-2014, 08:09 AM
Third 4 years, better than half the league. Think about it. Go look. We were better than half the league over the last 4 years.

Hopefully McNair has made moves that will make our next 4 years better than 2/3rds of the league. Hopefully four years from now, we'll look back & realize we were a top 10 team over that time period.

Because that's where we are at. We're on the brink of being a top 10 team in this league, or falling back into mediocrity.

In essence McNair bankrupted the team in order to BUY success. He did this by borrowing money from future years to pay for the third 4 years. As a result this practice has come back to bite him in the butt. The beginning of the fourth 4 years resembles the first 4 years.

You used HOPE twice in a paragraph. If your are good at what you do, know what you're doing, HOPE is not part of the equation. At this point, being a top 10 team is more HOPE and WISHFUL THINKING. The DOLLARS and CENTS haven't changed and until they do, expect more of the same.

thunderkyss
05-02-2014, 03:18 PM
In essence McNair bankrupted the team in order to BUY success. He did this by borrowing money from future years to pay for the third 4 years. As a result this practice has come back to bite him in the butt. The beginning of the fourth 4 years resembles the first 4 years.

You used HOPE twice in a paragraph. If your are good at what you do, know what you're doing, HOPE is not part of the equation. At this point, being a top 10 team is more HOPE and WISHFUL THINKING. The DOLLARS and CENTS haven't changed and until they do, expect more of the same.

I hope. I didn't say Bob Hopes. He probably feels pretty confident.

& there you go beating that dead horse again. I still do not agree that mismanagement of the cap is the root cause of our salary cap situation. Not in terms of contract value & structure anyway. You make a good arguement tha... no I take that back. Only an idiot can follow your logic.

Texian
05-02-2014, 04:21 PM
I hope. I didn't say Bob Hopes. He probably feels pretty confident.

& there you go beating that dead horse again. I still do not agree that mismanagement of the cap is the root cause of our salary cap situation. Not in terms of contract value & structure anyway. You make a good arguement tha... no I take that back. Only an idiot can follow your logic.

Well the scoreboard disagrees with you. Since the Texans have adopted the yearly policy of having little no salary cap room to start the new year, along with having to borrow $$$ from future years in order to pay a full 53 man roster this year, the Texans have gone down hill every year since and are currently in complete disarray. Until the salary cap allows the Texans the ability to afford replacing lost free agents with equal or better talent, instead of vet minimums the best you can expect is 8-8. You can not build a winning franchise from the draft alone. You have to be able to supplement the draft with above average talent through free agency. These last 3 years the Texans haven't been able to afford average talent. These 3 years the Texans did not have enough money to fill out the roster with vet minimums.

There is HOPE that one day you will be able to understand this and be able to follow this basic logic. We're not giving up HOPE on you yet. It's not that difficult. Fairly basic stuff here. When the Colts have $40 million to spend 2 years in a row and your team has to borrow money to field a team, YOU SIMPLY CANNOT COMPETE.

thunderkyss
05-02-2014, 04:47 PM
Well the scoreboard disagrees with you.

There's that logic of yours again. You must have like an 11' standing broad jump. It's freakily amazing.

Texian
05-02-2014, 05:13 PM
There's that logic of yours again. You must have like an 11' standing broad jump. It's freakily amazing.

and what is the flavor of the week, this week?

JB
05-02-2014, 05:26 PM
and what is the flavor of the week, this week?

I think for you its "slap somebody chili", heavily seasoned with past thyme


:texflag:

Thorn
05-02-2014, 05:33 PM
I think for you its "slap somebody chili", heavily seasoned with past thyme


:texflag:

If the frigging draft don't hurry an and get here so we have something concrete to talk about, I'm gonna go crazy with these bull**** threads. LOL

houstonspartan
05-02-2014, 05:59 PM
What makes you think the fruit of that foresight isn't taking shape now? I see the moves they made(shedding several overpaid contracts)/didn't make (throwing money away in FA) as a positive start toward turning this franchise around. I think anyone with an open mind, sans an agenda (which I KNOW is too much for some to give up).

I would agree that's it's too early to know for sure but it seems to me they've been proactive as far as the cap is concerned and we only have to wait a little over a week to see how the draft plays out.

I'm off the Kool-Aid but at the same time am willing to take a wait and see stance before I'm ready to pull the pitch fork out. I know that's not an overly popular stance. So be it.


Agree with you 1000%. Some people can't see the possibility that we are currently in a stage where we are re-booting the franchise. Not just "the team," but the entire Houston Texans as an organization.

I'll give O'Brien the benefit of the doubt until they give me reason not to. I'm not 100% on kool aid, either, but, I don't see where this franchise can go but up.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Texian
05-02-2014, 07:19 PM
I hope. I didn't say Bob Hopes.

Bob Hope is dead!

Thorn
05-02-2014, 08:35 PM
Bob Hope is dead!

Never!

http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20091229071634/muppet/images/thumb/1/17/Bobhope10.jpg/250px-Bobhope10.jpg

CloakNNNdagger
05-02-2014, 08:35 PM
Flame me if you want, but I wish someone would show McNair what else he can do with his socks.

McNair sheds more light on Texans’ plans (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/05/02/mcnair-sheds-more-light-on-texans-plans/)
May 2, 2014, 7:01 PM EDT


It’s becoming more clear that the Texans would like to trade the top pick in the draft to someone who wants defensive end Jadeveon Clowney.

Texans owner Bob McNair addressed the team’s plans on Friday. While intending to say nothing, he said plenty.

“Really at this point we don’t know and we really won’t know until right up at the time we have to make a decision because people are talking to us about the possibility of trading down and it’s a question of what people offer, whether their offer is such that it’s worthwhile to trade down,” McNair told FOX 26 in Houston regarding the team’s plans for the pick.

The more McNair talked, the more obvious it became that the plan is to trade the ability to select Clowney for the chance to get a quarterback, plus extra picks — or to take Clowney and then trade him to a team that drafts the player the Texans prefer. Presumably, a quarterback.

“You take a guy like Clowney,” McNair said. “He’s obviously the best player in the draft, but he’s a defensive end. He’s not a quarterback. If he’s a quarterback and the best player it’s easy, but that’s not the case. So can that defensive player have a greater impact on the success of your team than one of these quarterbacks? It’s not a sure thing that he is. . . . If somebody wants you to drop down and they give you two or three more picks that would let you get two or three more quality players, are you a stronger team dropping down a little bit, getting these additional picks and getting more depth?”

Even if the Texans trade down to get a quarterback, McNair has concerns.

“You got three quarterbacks and all of them have some holes in their resume,” McNair said. “A quarterback that goes out and performs for you and is a franchise quarterback is more valuable than a player playing another position, but there’s a lot more risk there. It’s a more difficult position to play and there are lot more failures.

“You drop down and there’s another group close behind, not exactly where they are, and maybe one of those quarterbacks will become better than one of these other three,” McNair said. “There are no slam dunks. There are no Andrew Lucks out there, no Peyton Mannings. If there were it would be an easy decision, but that’s not the case.”

Regardless of how it plays out, McNair remains confident that the Texans will emerge from the three-day player-acquisition exercise in much better shape.

“I think that we’re going to greatly strengthen our team as a result of the draft,” McNair said. “We’ve got 11 picks now in the draft and it’s a deep draft. So we’re going to get some good players regardless as to what we do. If we trade down and pick up two or three more players, we’d have 13 or 14 [draft picks]. So you’re going to see some significant strengthening of our team as a result of this draft.”

How much stronger depends on whether the Texans make the right move with the first No. 1 overall pick they’ve earned in eight years.

Thorn
05-02-2014, 08:49 PM
“I think that we’re going to greatly strengthen our team as a result of the draft,” McNair said. “We’ve got 11 picks now in the draft and it’s a deep draft. So we’re going to get some good players regardless as to what we do. If we trade down and pick up two or three more players, we’d have 13 or 14 [draft picks]. So you’re going to see some significant strengthening of our team as a result of this draft.”

And with that, I become a McNair fan.

Never in my life would I have thought I'd ever post that.

JB
05-02-2014, 09:03 PM
He's not saying anything that the media and fans aren't already thinking

Thorn
05-02-2014, 09:09 PM
He's not saying anything that the media and fans aren't already thinking

That much is very true. It was just cool to hear it from the owner is all. The bad thing about it, it sounds like he has a bit more say so in the draft than I would like an owner to have. But at least his logic is sound.

JB
05-02-2014, 09:11 PM
That much is very true. It was just cool to hear it from the owner is all. The bad thing about it, it sounds like he has a bit more say so in the draft than I would like an owner to have. But at least his logic is sound.

oh I thought he was just parroting the dumbed down fan speak he was given

:cool:

JB
05-02-2014, 09:11 PM
It was cool he came out and said it tho. He's a fan too

badboy
05-02-2014, 09:20 PM
Imagine you are Clowney, Maziel, TB or Bortles wouldn't you really want to play for this guy? whahaha

Playoffs
05-02-2014, 09:21 PM
Flame me if you want, but I wish someone would show McNair what else he can do with his socks.

Mr. McNair obviously didn't get the memo about baiting the OT hook.

Here's the source article: http://www.myfoxhouston.com/story/25416999/bob-mcnair-were-going-to-greatly-strengthen-our-team-as-a-result-of-the-draft

badboy
05-02-2014, 09:28 PM
Anytrade offer would be good.

Uncle Rico
05-02-2014, 10:19 PM
Hopefully Bob wont repeat mistakes he's made in the 2nd,3rd,4th,5th,6th and 7th rounds again either.

ObsiWan
05-03-2014, 01:24 AM
Well the scoreboard disagrees with you. Since the Texans have adopted the yearly policy of having little no salary cap room to start the new year, along with having to borrow $$$ from future years in order to pay a full 53 man roster this year, the Texans have gone down hill since every year since and are currently in complete disarray. Until the salary cap allows the Texans the ability to afford replacing lost free agents with equal or better talent, instead of vet minimums the best you can expect is 8-8. You can not build a winning franchise from the draft alone. You have to be able to supplement the draft with above average talent through free agency. These last 3 years the Texans haven't been able to afford average talent. These 3 years the Texans did not have enough money to fill out the roster with vet minimums.

There is HOPE that one day you will be able to understand this and be able to follow this basic logic. We're not giving up HOPE on you yet. It's not that difficult. Fairly basic stuff here. When the Colts have $40 million to spend 2 years in a row and your team has to borrow money to field a team, YOU SIMPLY CANNOT COMPETE.
Come back and talk to me when they have to cough up a $20 mil/yr contract for Andrew Luck and find they can't pay anyone else.

And I don't know if you've noticed but even with all that "spare money" they really haven't done a lot better than we have. Our suckage in 2013 wasn't due to salary cap issues, it was due to injuries and QB performance implosion and McNair meddling (demanding that Keenum be named the starter) ...again.

Texian
05-03-2014, 08:43 AM
Come back and talk to me when they have to cough up a $20 mil/yr contract for Andrew Luck and find they can't pay anyone else.

And I don't know if you've noticed but even with all that "spare money" they really haven't done a lot better than we have. Our suckage in 2013 wasn't due to salary cap issues, it was due to injuries and QB performance implosion and McNair meddling (demanding that Keenum be named the starter) ...again.

Colts went worst to first in 2 years and have $40 mil to spend this year. When you have $0 to spend and a team has $80 mil to spend over a couple of years you can't compete. Colts again, are odds on favorite to win division in 2014, the Texans maybe 8-8 if they're lucky. 4 wins may be more reasonable.

Yeah the results for 2013 suckage was directly responsible for having little or no salary cap space for a couple of years. When 25% of your starters and the B team is rookie and vet minimums your depth and special teams are a major part of that suckage. Depth and special teams ranked at the bottom and you can thank the poorly managed salary cap for that. The unacceptable number of holes on this team is direct result of little or no salary cap. McNair's interference (Ed Reed) and "I will spend whatever it takes", attitude, is also a reason for little or no salary cap room every year for the last 3 years.

A team cannot live by the draft alone. 09' draft only Cushing is here, 10' draft, only Jackson and Graham and Graham should be gone. Each year a team can lose a handful of high profile free agents. Unfortunately going on 3 years, the Texans have not been able to replace these lost players with equal talent, much less better talent. This is what finally caught up with them. It doesn't get any better this year, only worse.

Oh, and the Colts were paying Manning a $20 mil a yr contract and still winning the Super Bowl, so it can be done. It's not that difficult. If you have a $130 mil salary cap, $20 mil for QB, $5 mil for special teams, $5 mil for IR, LTBE and practice squad, $50 mil for Offense, $50 mil for defense.

silvrhand
05-03-2014, 09:57 AM
Blameful, imo.

In 2006, the team took 43 sacks total, 41 on Carr (a 5 year starter).

In 2007, the team took 22 sacks total on 60 more attempts.

We added Jordan Black and lost Zach Wiegert (OTs), and our first 4 draft picks were Amobi Okoye, Jacoby Jones, Fred Bennett, and Brandon Harrison.

So was it the offensive line, or was it the QB (Schaub/Rosenfels vs Carr)?

In 2007, Carr took 13 sacks in just 136 attempts for Carolina, a ~10% sack rate. Transposing to 2007 Texans attempts, that would've been 51 sacks.

You'd better draft pocket presence, because its darned near impossible to teach at this level.

LOL so for three years he gets no protection and then suddenly we get a little and he's supposed to just stand there like the last 3 years have never happened and not be a little gun shy?

Don't get me wrong David was to blame, but I also can't blame him for being gunshot after so many sacks and getting killed.

ObsiWan
05-03-2014, 10:19 AM
Colts went worst to first in 2 years and have $40 mil to spend this year. When you have $0 to spend and a team has $80 mil to spend over a couple of years you can't compete. Colts again, are odds on favorite to win division in 2014, the Texans maybe 8-8 if they're lucky. 4 wins may be more reasonable.

Yeah the results for 2013 suckage was directly responsible for having little or no salary cap space for a couple of years. When 25% of your starters and the B team is rookie and vet minimums your depth and special teams are a major part of that suckage. Depth and special teams ranked at the bottom and you can thank the poorly managed salary cap for that. The unacceptable number of holes on this team is direct result of little or no salary cap. McNair's interference (Ed Reed) and "I will spend whatever it takes", attitude, is also a reason for little or no salary cap room every year for the last 3 years.

A team cannot live by the draft alone. 09' draft only Cushing is here, 10' draft, only Jackson and Graham and Graham should be gone. Each year a team can lose a handful of high profile free agents. Unfortunately going on 3 years, the Texans have not been able to replace these lost players with equal talent, much less better talent. This is what finally caught up with them. It doesn't get any better this year, only worse.

Oh, and the Colts were paying Manning a $20 mil a yr contract and still winning the Super Bowl, so it can be done. It's not that difficult. If you have a $130 mil salary cap, $20 mil for QB, $5 mil for special teams, $5 mil for IR, LTBE and practice squad, $50 mil for Offense, $50 mil for defense.

You're wrong. We have about 1.5 mil less to spend than the Colts in 2014 and about the same to spend as the Seahawks. Where did you get that $40 million in cap space number from???
LINK (http://overthecap.com/teamcap.php?Team=Seahawks&Year=2014)
Super Bowl Champs Cap data
Seattle Seahawks 2014 Salary Cap
Est. Salary Cap Space: $12,979,652
Offensive Spend: 24 Players - - - - $58,460,821
Defensive Spend: 24 Players- - - - $51,964,559
Specials Spend: 3 Players - - - - - $3,987,500

Houston Texans 2014 Salary Cap
Est. Salary Cap Space: $12,430,615
Offensive Spend: 24 Players - - - $59,063,642
Defensive Spend: 24 Players- - - $40,078,522
Specials Spend: 3 Players- - - - - $3,491,610

Indianapolis Colts 2014 Salary Cap
Est. Salary Cap Space: $13,989,370
Offensive Spend: 23 players - - - - $43,398,647
Defensive Spend: 25 players- - - - $65,327,676
Specials Spend: 3 players - - - - - - $5,770,000

Texian
05-03-2014, 11:34 AM
You're wrong. We have about 1.5 mil less to spend than the Colts in 2014 and about the same to spend as the Seahawks. Where did you get that $40 million in cap space number from???
LINK (http://overthecap.com/teamcap.php?Team=Seahawks&Year=2014)
Super Bowl Champs Cap data
Seattle Seahawks 2014 Salary Cap
Est. Salary Cap Space: $12,979,652
Offensive Spend: 24 Players - - - - $58,460,821
Defensive Spend: 24 Players- - - - $51,964,559
Specials Spend: 3 Players - - - - - $3,987,500

Houston Texans 2014 Salary Cap
Est. Salary Cap Space: $12,430,615
Offensive Spend: 24 Players - - - $59,063,642
Defensive Spend: 24 Players- - - $40,078,522
Specials Spend: 3 Players- - - - - $3,491,610

Indianapolis Colts 2014 Salary Cap
Est. Salary Cap Space: $13,989,370
Offensive Spend: 23 players - - - - $43,398,647
Defensive Spend: 25 players- - - - $65,327,676
Specials Spend: 3 players - - - - - - $5,770,000

In simple terms, why I am right:

A. The Seahawks who today have the same salary cap as the Texans are a Super Bowl Champions, the Texans are 2-14 and full of holes. So far this year the Seahawks have signed or re-signed: Earl Thomas, Marcus Trufant, Sidney Rice, Tony Daniel, Michael Bennett and are in negotiations to extend Richard Sherman and have approx $12.9 mil remaining under the cap..

B. The Colts started 2014 w/ approx $38 million under the cap and have since signed: Vontae Davis, Arthur Jones, Hakeem Nicks, Phil Costa, Ahmad Bradshaw, Adam Vinateri, Pat McAfee, Fili Moala, D'Qwell Jackson and have approx. $13 mil remaining under the cap

The Texans, on the other hand have signed; Garrett Graham, Jarrell Powe, Kendrick Lewis and Chris CLemons after cutting Owen Daniels and Daniel Manning (better players than they've signed) and have approx $12.4 million under the cap.

When you look at the players signed or re-signed by Seattle and Indianapolis vs the players signed by Houston there is no comparison, it's night and day. This is a great example. This is exactly what has been happening to the Texans the last 3 years. This is a perfect illustration to explain the demise and deterioration of the Texans over the last 3 years.

DBCooper
05-03-2014, 03:59 PM
At least next week these self anointed GM's can b!tch about the draft instead of this drivel.

thunderkyss
05-03-2014, 04:00 PM
Colts went worst to first in 2 years and have $40 mil to spend this year.

The Colts were the worst team in football in 2011.

They won 11 games in 2012. Who were the big named FAs they signed that ushered in that turn around? How much did they spend?

They started the next offseason with $40M to spend and as a result, they won 11 games in 2013. How much of that $40M did they spend & on who? How did those players help them win in 2013?

And lastly, I'm sure you wouldn't have had a problem if our wonderful FO traded our 1st round pick for Trent Richardson? Of course, the Colts knew their first round pick was going to be in the 20s so you can't really compare them right? So instead, what would you think if Rick Smith traded Cleveland our 2nd for Trent Richardson?

Texian
05-03-2014, 05:05 PM
At least next week these self anointed GM's can ***** about the draft instead of this drivel.

Probably not since this has been an ongoing problem for 3 years. Post draft
will offer a break though.

The Colts were the worst team in football in 2011.

They won 11 games in 2012. Who were the big named FAs they signed that ushered in that turn around? How much did they spend?

They started the next offseason with $40M to spend and as a result, they won 11 games in 2013. How much of that $40M did they spend & on who? How did those players help them win in 2013?

And lastly, I'm sure you wouldn't have had a problem if our wonderful FO traded our 1st round pick for Trent Richardson? Of course, the Colts knew their first round pick was going to be in the 20s so you can't really compare them right? So instead, what would you think if Rick Smith traded Cleveland our 2nd for Trent Richardson?

Sounds like the Kool Aid is tasting a little bitter today.

ObsiWan
05-03-2014, 05:55 PM
Sounds like the Kool Aid is tasting a little bitter today.
Sounds like you're sidestepping his question

Texian
05-03-2014, 06:06 PM
Sounds like you're sidestepping his question

I answered the question completely and sincerely in post #94. I even gave you a rep for illustrating so well the Texans dysfunctional cap management so much better than I have been able to. As to Thunderkyss response, that was just a little kool aid reflux and regurgitation that happens and often results in the babble of homina homina homina :)

TK can do his own homework, I'm not his secretary. In regards to Richardson, no disagreement from me. I agree completely it was definitely a WTH is going on decision, head scratcher. Pep Hamilton has since been relegated to play 2nd fiddle to Rob Chudsinski as a result of the Richardson decision. In the general discussion TK couldn't help himself and Richardson argument was the best that he could do even though it led to more homina homina homina babble. On another note when was the last time the Texans were able to trade for and AFFORD a 1st RD draft pick whether the player was GOOD, BAD or INDIFFERENT?

ObsiWan
05-03-2014, 07:19 PM
I answered the question completely and sincerely in post #94. I even gave you a rep for illustrating so well the Texans dysfunctional cap management so much better than I have been able to. As to Thunderkyss response, that was just a little kool aid reflux and regurgitation that happens and often results in the babble of homina homina homina :)

TK can do his own homework, I'm not his secretary. In regards to Richardson, no disagreement from me. I agree completely it was definitely a WTH is going on decision, head scratcher. Pep Hamilton has since been relegated to play 2nd fiddle to Rob Chudsinski as a result of the Richardson decision. In the general discussion TK couldn't help himself and Richardson argument was the best that he could do even though it led to more homina homina homina babble. On another note when was the last time the Texans were able to trade for and AFFORD a 1st RD draft pick whether the player was GOOD, BAD or INDIFFERENT?
Peace.
On the surface, it looks like the Colts have made the bigger splash and the Seahawks have been able to keep some key pieces. Although losing McDonald, Bryant, and Clemmons off that defensive line - which was a strength for them - might adversely affect the pass rush that gave Peyton fits in the SB.

Only the upcoming season will show who made the better moves.

Oh and I do appreciate the rep.

thunderkyss
05-03-2014, 07:56 PM
I answered the question completely and sincerely in post #94. I even gave you a rep for illustrating so well the Texans dysfunctional cap management so much better than I have been able to. As to Thunderkyss response, that was just a little kool aid reflux and regurgitation that happens and often results in the babble of homina homina homina :)


Post #94 is about this offseason & we haven't seen the results of that yet. For all we know it could blow back in their face the way it did for the Eagles' Dream team.

I asked about the money they didn't spend after 2011. That team they put together through the draft because they were broke & had no money to spend on free agents, still they managed to win 11 games in 2012. Screwing up their cap did not stop them from fielding a competitive team.

I asked about the money they didn't spend after 2012. Again, no flashy free agent signings, not very active in FA at all. Still, they turned in another 11 win season. That pretty much cancels your theory that you have to sign free agents to replace the talent you lost.

Mathis stepped his game up, they didn't sign anyone for the 2012/2013 season to replace Freeney or anyone else.


TK can do his own homework, I'm not his secretary. In regards to Richardson, no disagreement from me. I agree completely it was definitely a WTH is going on decision, head scratcher.

So the Texans aren't the only ones screwing up.... that was my point.

Texian
05-03-2014, 08:50 PM
Post #94 is about this offseason & we haven't seen the results of that yet. For all we know it could blow back in their face the way it did for the Eagles' Dream team.

I asked about the money they didn't spend after 2011. That team they put together through the draft because they were broke & had no money to spend on free agents, still they managed to win 11 games in 2012. Screwing up their cap did not stop them from fielding a competitive team.

I asked about the money they didn't spend after 2012. Again, no flashy free agent signings, not very active in FA at all. Still, they turned in another 11 win season. That pretty much cancels your theory that you have to sign free agents to replace the talent you lost.

Mathis stepped his game up, they didn't sign anyone for the 2012/2013 season to replace Freeney or anyone else.



So the Texans aren't the only ones screwing up.... that was my point.

Actually in 2011 the Colts were not far removed from the SB and did not need a lot of parts. Then Peyton went down. In 2012 the Colts went all in on rebuilding mode, cut some BIG contracts and did add quite a few FA, traded draft picks for players and claimed several players off waivers in final cut downs. Plus they drafted well. After getting relief from Manning and Freeney's salary the Colts were able to sign quite a few expensive FAs. The bottom line is the Colts were able to afford something more than VET Minimums and when they couldn't they traded for players and worked the waiver wire.

The Colts actually got to spend Manning's and Freeney's salary when their salary came off the Colts books, unlike the Texans who got an $18 million in salary relief from Mario leaving, yet started the following year after Mario's departure only $3 million under the cap.

Everybody makes mistakes some teams just make more than others.

thunderkyss
05-03-2014, 09:38 PM
Everybody makes mistakes some teams just make more than others.

& everything goes in cycles. They're spending money now, because they can. 2010, & 2011, not so much. We're pretty much (now) where they were in 2011. Our time will come.

We manage the cap the same way they do. The same way 30 other teams do. They got more out of their all in move than we did. That's the only difference. Our coaches only got two play off wins & two division titles going all in. They were able to turn in 10 years of success including two Super Bowls & one Lombardi.

They reset the clock two years ago. We're resetting now. Let's see who crosses the finish line first.


Yeah, that's the Koolaid talking.

steelbtexan
05-03-2014, 10:05 PM
Ok, you have a point (as it stands right now). But there is still the draft and the option of reworking contracts if OB doesn't think that Graham and Griffin can do what he wants done AND/OR he can't utilize what they can do.

It's too early for me to look on the negative side the roster until I see how they fill that roster and plan to utilize it.

Just because they haven't done things in a manner that you approve of doesn't make it a bad decision

Same BS you've been spouting for yrs.

You want a team built in a certain model. (That model has been proven to be a faulty one, But it has made the McNair's a lot of $$$$.)

Time to change the model, But It looks like it wont happen.

I can tell you I think Manziel will be a Texan because it will keep the fanbase that McNair wants happy. It may not be at 1-1 but after all this is a business and business always comes 1st when it comes to the McNair's family business.

steelbtexan
05-03-2014, 10:22 PM
I said at the beginning it was early, no argument there. Also OB is a rookie HC in the NFL. I expect OB to make some rookie HC mistakes. I was just pointing out that the initial transactions made from OB is something I wouldn't have necessarily done. I am on record and have been saying for years that there is HC think and there is GM think. The Daniels, Manning decisions fall under HC think and NOT GM think IMHO.

Plus the problem he will have with the McNair/Smith combo not being able to manage the cap properly. (See Schaub /Foster exentions) Still will have BOB's hands tied and it appears that the draft will be nily willy (Going for the guy who will make the franchise the most $$$$ will carry the day)

Might as well make Derek Carr 1-1 and complete the circle.

steelbtexan
05-03-2014, 10:28 PM
I don't have a problem with your expectations. My issue is that it's like you expect McNair to change the past. He can't.

The first 4 years were a flop. He realized that. The only thing he can do from that point is to scrap it all & start over, which he did.

He doesn't deserve any more criticism for what happened the first four years. He saw it, he did what we had to do & we moved forward.

Over the next 4 year period, we only had one losing season & finally had a winning season. I'll put it another way. He took a failed expansion team from losers to winners in 4 years.

Some people expected play offs in that time. I admit, it would have been nice. It didn't happen. Could any other coach/GM combination come in & rebuild a failed expansion team & win a Super Bowl in 4 seasons? Could another coach/GM combination come in & take that failed team to a play off game?

I doubt it. Why? Because we haven't seen it anywhere else. Haven't seen it with the Browns. The Browns have fired coaches & GMs & changed owners like "everyone" wants here & they are not the better for it.

After the initial success of the Panthers & the Jags... they haven't done much since. The Panthers got to the Super Bowl, with a team not very different from what we started with last season. So maybe that's saying something, but overall those teams have not been any better than the Texans over the last 4 years.

So what if they fired Kubiak/Smith after 2010, what would you have expected? A play off berth? A division championship? A Play off win? Heck, you probably think the Colts are a better team than we are, but we've done better than them over the last three years.

First 4 years, we sucked. Get over it. We can't change it. McNair can't do anything about it.

Second 4 years, he turned this thing around. We were the Browns, we were the Lions.

Third 4 years, better than half the league. Think about it. Go look. We were better than half the league over the last 4 years.

Hopefully McNair has made moves that will make our next 4 years better than 2/3rds of the league. Hopefully four years from now, we'll look back & realize we were a top 10 team over that time period.

Because that's where we are at. We're on the brink of being a top 10 team in this league, or falling back into mediocrity.

Well said and most will agree with you.

I expect more and YOU should as well. I mean the McNair's have made over a billion $$$$ off of people with this mind set.

Texian
05-03-2014, 10:33 PM
& everything goes in cycles. They're spending money now, because they can. 2010, & 2011, not so much. We're pretty much (now) where they were in 2011. Our time will come.

We manage the cap the same way they do. The same way 30 other teams do. They got more out of their all in move than we did. That's the only difference. Our coaches only got two play off wins & two division titles going all in. They were able to turn in 10 years of success including two Super Bowls & one Lombardi.

They reset the clock two years ago. We're resetting now. Let's see who crosses the finish line first.


Yeah, that's the Koolaid talking.

No not quite, the BIG difference is Colts were in 2010 Super Bowl and didn't have the holes the Texans have.

And no, we don't manage the cap the same. The difference is; 1. McNair's attitude of we have the money and we're going to spend it.

2. The Texans have never been $40 million under the cap, much less $40 million under the cap 2 years in a row.

3. Texans have operated and managed the salary cap under "Coach Think" instead of "GM Think". The difference is Coach Think has a WIN NOW mentality vs GM Think has BIG Picture mentality where 2016 is just as important as 2014 and as a result 2015 will be a better year.

JPPT1974
05-03-2014, 10:34 PM
Hopefully that the team will not just when they and if they draft a QB. They will give him protection as that is what they lacked in protecting David Carr. All of those sacks had to take a wear and tear on his body!

steelbtexan
05-03-2014, 10:36 PM
Must spread rep.
Some hold on to the past like a vengeful spouse who will never let you forget the fact that you forgot an anniversary ten years ago.

Tell me what's change and why does Smith still have a job?

steelbtexan
05-03-2014, 10:55 PM
Well the scoreboard disagrees with you. Since the Texans have adopted the yearly policy of having little no salary cap room to start the new year, along with having to borrow $$$ from future years in order to pay a full 53 man roster this year, the Texans have gone down hill every year since and are currently in complete disarray. Until the salary cap allows the Texans the ability to afford replacing lost free agents with equal or better talent, instead of vet minimums the best you can expect is 8-8. You can not build a winning franchise from the draft alone. You have to be able to supplement the draft with above average talent through free agency. These last 3 years the Texans haven't been able to afford average talent. These 3 years the Texans did not have enough money to fill out the roster with vet minimums.

There is HOPE that one day you will be able to understand this and be able to follow this basic logic. We're not giving up HOPE on you yet. It's not that difficult. Fairly basic stuff here. When the Colts have $40 million to spend 2 years in a row and your team has to borrow money to field a team, YOU SIMPLY CANNOT COMPETE.

Truth is a MF'er sometimes.

Sad part is that IF Smith has a clue in this deep draft it should be better than the 2006 draft. But chances of Smith & company hitting on 5 high level contributors in this draft is slim. (Partly because of the restrictions the McNair's put on him.) I wouldn't count on great improvements.

I really got down on the Texans org after Brian Gardner (Who was a really good Player Pro guy) became the fall guy for the Reed screw up; Smith turned out to be far more of a Teflon guy than Kubiak ever could've been.

steelbtexan
05-03-2014, 10:57 PM
I hope. I didn't say Bob Hopes. He probably feels pretty confident.

& there you go beating that dead horse again. I still do not agree that mismanagement of the cap is the root cause of our salary cap situation. Not in terms of contract value & structure anyway. You make a good arguement tha... no I take that back. Only an idiot can follow your logic.

Hope in one hand and crap in the other. You tell me which one fills up the fastest?

Doppelganger
05-03-2014, 10:59 PM
I'd still rather have Mario Williams over the other options in 2006.

I would have taken D'Brickashaw Ferguson.

steelbtexan
05-03-2014, 11:02 PM
Agree with you 1000%. Some people can't see the possibility that we are currently in a stage where we are re-booting the franchise. Not just "the team," but the entire Houston Texans as an organization.

I'll give O'Brien the benefit of the doubt until they give me reason not to. I'm not 100% on kool aid, either, but, I don't see where this franchise can go but up.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

3rd re boot

2nd re boot with Smith.

Sorry I'm skeptical of the motives.

steelbtexan
05-03-2014, 11:18 PM
And with that, I become a McNair fan.

Never in my life would I have thought I'd ever post that.

If only that could become the truth.

steelbtexan
05-03-2014, 11:20 PM
That much is very true. It was just cool to hear it from the owner is all. The bad thing about it, it sounds like he has a bit more say so in the draft than I would like an owner to have. But at least his logic is sound.

Starting to catch on to the way the Texans org works?

steelbtexan
05-04-2014, 04:05 AM
Come back and talk to me when they have to cough up a $20 mil/yr contract for Andrew Luck and find they can't pay anyone else.

And I don't know if you've noticed but even with all that "spare money" they really haven't done a lot better than we have. Our suckage in 2013 wasn't due to salary cap issues, it was due to injuries and QB performance implosion and McNair meddling (demanding that Keenum be named the starter) ...again.

11-5 vs 2-14

What is reality?

steelbtexan
05-04-2014, 04:10 AM
Colts went worst to first in 2 years and have $40 mil to spend this year. When you have $0 to spend and a team has $80 mil to spend over a couple of years you can't compete. Colts again, are odds on favorite to win division in 2014, the Texans maybe 8-8 if they're lucky. 4 wins may be more reasonable.

Yeah the results for 2013 suckage was directly responsible for having little or no salary cap space for a couple of years. When 25% of your starters and the B team is rookie and vet minimums your depth and special teams are a major part of that suckage. Depth and special teams ranked at the bottom and you can thank the poorly managed salary cap for that. The unacceptable number of holes on this team is direct result of little or no salary cap. McNair's interference (Ed Reed) and "I will spend whatever it takes", attitude, is also a reason for little or no salary cap room every year for the last 3 years.

A team cannot live by the draft alone. 09' draft only Cushing is here, 10' draft, only Jackson and Graham and Graham should be gone. Each year a team can lose a handful of high profile free agents. Unfortunately going on 3 years, the Texans have not been able to replace these lost players with equal talent, much less better talent. This is what finally caught up with them. It doesn't get any better this year, only worse.

Oh, and the Colts were paying Manning a $20 mil a yr contract and still winning the Super Bowl, so it can be done. It's not that difficult. If you have a $130 mil salary cap, $20 mil for QB, $5 mil for special teams, $5 mil for IR, LTBE and practice squad, $50 mil for Offense, $50 mil for defense.

Who is responsible for adding talent?

Seems like simple math to me.

steelbtexan
05-04-2014, 04:18 AM
I answered the question completely and sincerely in post #94. I even gave you a rep for illustrating so well the Texans dysfunctional cap management so much better than I have been able to. As to Thunderkyss response, that was just a little kool aid reflux and regurgitation that happens and often results in the babble of homina homina homina :)

TK can do his own homework, I'm not his secretary. In regards to Richardson, no disagreement from me. I agree completely it was definitely a WTH is going on decision, head scratcher. Pep Hamilton has since been relegated to play 2nd fiddle to Rob Chudsinski as a result of the Richardson decision. In the general discussion TK couldn't help himself and Richardson argument was the best that he could do even though it led to more homina homina homina babble. On another note when was the last time the Texans were able to trade for and AFFORD a 1st RD draft pick whether the player was GOOD, BAD or INDIFFERENT?

So you're saying Hamilton is being held accountable?

When is the last time that has happened in the Texans org? I mean 2-14 didn't bring a full house cleaning.

thunderkyss
05-04-2014, 04:57 AM
So you're saying Hamilton is being held accountable?

When is the last time that has happened in the Texans org? I mean 2-14 didn't bring a full house cleaning.

To be fair, the last time we went 2-14, the GM didn't get canned until after the draft. His best while with the Texans by the way.

steelbtexan
05-04-2014, 09:01 AM
To be fair, the last time we went 2-14, the GM didn't get canned until after the draft. His best while with the Texans by the way.

Do you really think Smith will be fired after the draft?

thunderkyss
05-04-2014, 02:37 PM
Do you really think Smith will be fired after the draft?

I didn't think Casserly would be.

Texian
05-04-2014, 03:04 PM
I didn't think Casserly would be.

Really? It was pretty much a forgone conclusion and assumed months before as mutual agreement.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2440274

The Pencil Neck
05-04-2014, 03:08 PM
Really? It was pretty much a forgone conclusion and announced long before as mutual agreement.

Really? I don't recall that.

I remember being surprised because I thought he had weathered the firing storm.

The Pencil Neck
05-04-2014, 03:10 PM
Well, when you're right... (http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20957&highlight=casserly+firing)

I didn't remember that report. Maybe I didn't believe it.

Texian
05-04-2014, 03:11 PM
Really? I don't recall that.

I remember being surprised because I thought he had weathered the firing storm.

" Houston Texans general manager Charley Casserly resigned Wednesday, ending months of speculation that intensified in recent weeks after the team used the No. 1 pick to draft defensive end Mario Williams.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2440274

I thought it was a forgone conclusion that would end with his contract.

The Pencil Neck
05-04-2014, 03:14 PM
" Houston Texans general manager Charley Casserly resigned Wednesday, ending months of speculation that intensified in recent weeks after the team used the No. 1 pick to draft defensive end Mario Williams.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2440274

I posted a link to a discussion of it in Texan's Talk as well.

That was from "rumormill" though and I guess I didn't give it any credence. I'd never heard of a team waiting until after the draft to fire someone. And as your quote says, it was just speculation.

badboy
05-04-2014, 08:44 PM
Do you really think Smith will be fired after the draft?I wonder if Smith is thinking about this?

Hookem Horns
05-04-2014, 11:34 PM
I posted a link to a discussion of it in Texan's Talk as well.

That was from "rumormill" though and I guess I didn't give it any credence. I'd never heard of a team waiting until after the draft to fire someone. And as your quote says, it was just speculation.

I thought we all knew that Casserely was gone after the draft. It's why we were all saying that he would have nothing to do with the draft.

The guy was slobbering all over Reggie Bush. However Kubes and company went in another direction.

This is why I always laugh every time Casserely tries to take credit for drafting Mario Williams.

The Pencil Neck
05-05-2014, 02:37 AM
I thought we all knew that Casserely was gone after the draft. It's why we were all saying that he would have nothing to do with the draft.

The guy was slobbering all over Reggie Bush. However Kubes and company went in another direction.

This is why I always laugh every time Casserely tries to take credit for drafting Mario Williams.

Ahhhh... I know what happened.

I was living in the Dallas area and had only joined the Forums to get more information during the draft.

For the entire existence of the Texans up to that draft, I hadn't been a part of any forums and had just been a lonely fan up in Pennsylvania, out in California, and finally, up in Dallas. I wasn't around the Houston News or any of the websites or pages.

I was just following along on ESPN and Yahoo or whatever. So I was totally out of the information loop at that point. And so, for me, it was a complete surprise.

Playoffs
05-05-2014, 08:28 AM
I thought we all knew that Casserely was gone after the draft. It's why we were all saying that he would have nothing to do with the draft.

The guy was slobbering all over Reggie Bush. However Kubes and company went in another direction.

This is why I always laugh every time Casserely tries to take credit for drafting Mario Williams.

This is true.

Heard Kiper just say it was the wrong choice, that Reggie Bush was the "world's greatest decoy" and would have made David Carr a better QB. :devilpig:

kingtexan
05-05-2014, 12:07 PM
Good article in ESPN The Magazine about David helping Derek out before his pro-day and during the draft process. David basically says in the article that he wished someone would have shown him how to prepare when he was first drafted, and that he didn't learn that until observing Eli. Now he wants to imbed that in his little brother. Preparation first and foremost. Seems he realizes that was one of his biggest deficiencies.

False Start
05-05-2014, 12:24 PM
This is why I always laugh every time Casserely tries to take credit for drafting Mario Williams.

That drives me nucking futs! :cutthroat:

ObsiWan
05-05-2014, 12:34 PM
Tell me what's change and why does Smith still have a job?
Two part question:
Part 1: Can't answer this part until you specify a time frame. What's changed since WHEN? Since Dec. when Kubiak was fired? Since Feb. when the season ended? Since the last time we were 2-14 in 2005?

Part 2: Because McNair thinks Smith is doing a good job.

CloakNNNdagger
05-05-2014, 08:15 PM
Two part question:
Part 1: Can't answer this part until you specify a time frame. What's changed since WHEN? Since Dec. when Kubiak was fired? Since Feb. when the season ended? Since the last time we were 2-14 in 2005?

Part 2: Because McNair thinks Smith is doing a good job.


It's amazing, isn't it, the kind of results you get flipping coins......:runaway:

ObsiWan
05-05-2014, 08:18 PM
It's amazing, isn't it, the kind of results you get flipping coins......:runaway:
Rick might have flipped the coins but it was Kubiak (and the other coaches) that decided whether to call heads or tails.
:D

Texan_Bill
05-05-2014, 08:41 PM
EFF IT!!! I'm calling tails.........

********

Then again, I'm always looking for tail! :)

ObsiWan
05-06-2014, 07:31 AM
EFF IT!!! I'm calling tails.........

********

Then again, I'm always looking for tail! :)
We've heard that about you...
:kitten:

Texian
05-06-2014, 08:03 AM
It's amazing, isn't it, the kind of results you get flipping coins......:runaway:

Rick might have flipped the coins but it was Kubiak (and the other coaches) that decided whether to call heads or tails.
:D

I don't think much has changed since Kubiak's firing. Like Kubiak, I believe that BOB has final say on the 53 man roster and like with Kubiak, Rick Smith is there to make sure that McNair's and BOB's requests and demands are carried out to their fullest.

HuttoKarl
05-09-2014, 12:15 PM
Can we start something new with Derek Carr today?

Thorn
05-09-2014, 12:20 PM
Can we start something new with Derek Carr today?

If there is anything this year that would get this board close to its number of posters record, that would be it. LOL

HuttoKarl
05-09-2014, 12:21 PM
If there is anything this year that would get this board close to its number of posters record, that would be it. LOL

I'll be watching that first pick with my pants off. :whip:

El Tejano
05-09-2014, 12:43 PM
I think the Carr family will do everything possible to stay away from Houston. We treated their family like total crap just because HWNSNBM was not any good.

HJam72
05-09-2014, 01:00 PM
I think the Carr family will do everything possible to stay away from Houston. We treated their family like total crap just because HWNSNBM was not any good.

He Who Not Shall Name Bowell Movement?

I think we have gotten laxadaisyical about our accronym over time.

Goatcheese
05-09-2014, 01:23 PM
He Who Not Shall Name Bowell Movement?

I think we have gotten laxadaisyical about our accronym over time.

He who shall not be mentioned.

Double Barrel
05-09-2014, 01:45 PM
HWNSNBM = He Whose Name Shall Not Be Mentioned

:thinking: I assume...

MEGA SWATT
05-09-2014, 02:40 PM
hwnsnbm = he whose name shall not be mentioned

:thinking: i assume...

he
who
ninety % (of the)
snaps
(napalm-style,)
became
mutilated

infantrycak
05-09-2014, 03:30 PM
HWNSNBM = He Whose Name Shall Not Be Mentioned

:thinking: I assume...

I always did HWSNBN - he who shall not be named.

HJam72
05-09-2014, 03:32 PM
I always did HWSNBN - he who shall not be named.

Yeah, that's the one I expected.

Double Barrel
05-09-2014, 03:34 PM
I always did HWSNBN - he who shall not be named.

Me, too. I was just trying to help decipher El Tejano's acronym.