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badboy
04-13-2014, 08:15 PM
I am always pumped for Texans choices and do many mocks, individually and with my two partners Beerlover and Rmartin 65. Has the roster & management changes, 2013 record, the depth of this draft or anything else impacted or changed your usual opinions on draft?

I long for the future day when we can draft best player each round but that may be some time. The roster & coaching changes has really ramped up my interest if that is possible.

Texan_Bill
04-13-2014, 08:22 PM
Love ya brother but when it comes to the draft, meh....... :yawn:

I have all sorts of theories and ideologies but at the end of the day, it means nothing. OR MORE IMPORTANTLY what it is that I think would improve this team, means nothing...

Whether or not the Texans draft who I want the bottom line is that I'll be at all 10 games this season.

badboy
04-13-2014, 08:37 PM
Love ya brother but when it comes to the draft, meh....... :yawn:

I have all sorts of theories and ideologies but at the end of the day, it means nothing. OR MORE IMPORTANTLY what it is that I think would improve this team, means nothing...

Whether or not the Texans draft who I want the bottom line is that I'll be at all 10 games this season.your theories & ideologies could be important Bill. Your comments can make me think & change opinions or lead to more research. I wished you would put more here about your thoughts on team draft. :clap:

steelbtexan
04-13-2014, 08:39 PM
Love ya brother but when it comes to the draft, meh....... :yawn:

I have all sorts of theories and ideologies but at the end of the day, it means nothing. OR MORE IMPORTANTLY what it is that I think would improve this team, means nothing...

Whether or not the Texans draft who I want the bottom line is that I'll be at all 10 games this season.

True

But you must have some favorites that you would like to see drafted and it's frustrating to see the Texans org pass on them and see them turn into successful players on other teams. (See: A.Jeffery/J.Houston)

Goldensilence
04-13-2014, 08:43 PM
Lots of moving parts to draft day and lots of changes in the off season already. To me this draft has lots of intrigue because you had ideas last year, but it's really all over the place and a deep draft.

Biggest question of course is what does this staff do long term at qb? Bridgewater has a high floor, but you wonder about the ceiling. I have him somewhere between Matt Ryan and Russell Wilson.

Bortles has the size you want and possibly highest ceiling. Maybe a more athletic Big Ben.

Manziel is a gamble. Guy can be lightening in a bottle, but can it translate to the NFL?

Quite a pack lurking behind, questions about are the so called top there that much better?

thunderkyss
04-13-2014, 08:44 PM
I'm always interested in the draft, because I know it's a pretty big building block towards the success/failure of this team. But I can't follow college football. By nature, when I get into something, I get all in & college football... there's just way too much.



I long for the future day when we can draft best player each round but that may be some time. The roster & coaching changes has really ramped up my interest if that is possible.

I don't know what to think. The Patriots have got their way of approaching the draft that leaves a lot of people scratching their heads. Guys fit their program & guys don't fit their program & sometimes those guys... like I said, are real head scratchers.

DocBar
04-13-2014, 08:46 PM
I am always pumped for Texans choices and do many mocks, individually and with my two partners Beerlover and Rmartin 65. Has the roster & management changes, 2013 record, the depth of this draft or anything else impacted or changed your usual opinions on draft?

I long for the future day when we can draft best player each round but that may be some time. The roster & coaching changes has really ramped up my interest if that is possible.I'm extremely interested in the 2014 draft, just like every other year. I'm a big proponent of BPA, but not na´ve enough to think that actually happens, except rarely.

I think the roster changes are exacerbated by the new labor agreement. The coaches can't spend enough time actually learning the current players to know the positions that actually need to improve. I see this as a flaw in the current labor agreement and it needs to be addressed. Especially with new HC's.

DocBar
04-13-2014, 08:48 PM
I'm always interested in the draft, because I know it's a pretty big building block towards the success/failure of this team. But I can't follow college football. By nature, when I get into something, I get all in & college football... there's just way too much.




I don't know what to think. The Patriots have got their way of approaching the draft that leaves a lot of people scratching their heads. Guys fit their program & guys don't fit their program & sometimes those guys... like I said, are real head scratchers.The Patriots have as many misses as hits under BB. He's no more of a guru than anyone else. So much of drafting a player is gut instinct.

badboy
04-13-2014, 08:52 PM
I could easily be wrong but I don't remember as much discrepancy in evaluation of top 10-12 players as this year. Players always move around and 2-3 really drop surprisingly and of course there is often one guy taken way above where most predicted (Dallas last year and Oakland in past).

DocBar
04-13-2014, 08:57 PM
I could easily be wrong but I don't remember as much discrepancy in evaluation of top 10-12 players as this year. Players always move around and 2-3 really drop surprisingly and of course there is often one guy taken way above where most predicted (Dallas last year and Oakland in past).This is also a very deep draft, as far as talent goes. Probably as deep as we've ever seen. Any number of players could be taken at any number of draft spots, depending on how a particular team views a particular player.

steelbtexan
04-13-2014, 09:03 PM
Lots of moving parts to draft day and lots of changes in the off season already. To me this draft has lots of intrigue because you had ideas last year, but it's really all over the place and a deep draft.

Biggest question of course is what does this staff do long term at qb? Bridgewater has a high floor, but you wonder about the ceiling. I have him somewhere between Matt Ryan and Russell Wilson.

Bortles has the size you want and possibly highest ceiling. Maybe a more athletic Big Ben.

Manziel is a gamble. Guy can be lightening in a bottle, but can it translate to the NFL?

Quite a pack lurking behind, questions about are the so called top there that much better?

Bridgewater's upside = Matt Schaub/ Downside = Christian Ponder

Bortles upside = Roethlisberger/Rivers/ Downside = Sanchez

Maziel upside = Steve Young/Theismann Downside = Bubby Brister/Alex Smith

thunderkyss
04-13-2014, 09:10 PM
The Patriots have as many misses as hits under BB. He's no more of a guru than anyone else. So much of drafting a player is gut instinct.

I think they have more misses than "normal" & I think it's because of the way they go about setting up their board. "We" like to believe that there's somewhat of a consensus as to player rankings. Right now, our "good boy" policy drives people up the wall.

Well I don't think anyone knows what it takes to qualify for the Patriots list.

DocBar
04-13-2014, 09:11 PM
Bridgewater's upside = Matt Schaub/ Downside = Christian Ponder

Bortles upside = Roethlisberger/Rivers/ Downside = Sanchez

Maziel upside = Steve Young/Theismann Downside = Bubby Brister/Alex SmithYou're awful optimistic about Manziel. His downside is much, much greater than Brister/Smith. Think JaMarcus Russel/Akili Smithy/Ryan Leaf.

Upside would be Young/Tarkington

Except smaller and possibly more fragile.

The interesting part for me ( and it would be much better if it was another team) is how much stock do you put in upside/downside.

badboy
04-13-2014, 09:14 PM
This is also a very deep draft, as far as talent goes. Probably as deep as we've ever seen. Any number of players could be taken at any number of draft spots, depending on how a particular team views a particular player.
Agreed. I can happily find good players deep into 6th round. A trade down or two in first and the possibility of other trades in other rounds looks very good. We should be able to resolve key needs and also depth with our 11 selections

ArlingtonTexan
04-13-2014, 10:04 PM
Having the 1.1 is the least interesting draft position for me. Basically, the Texans are going to be forced into taking a guy that they don't really want because the single worse place to trade down from in the entire draft is pick 1.1 in a year with no clear overall number 1 pick.

We have been talking the same tired handful of players since around Halloween. My interest starts at pick 2.1 ( unless the less than 10% chance of a trade down happens). in short, the Texans can't declare (or make silly obvious) who the number 1 pick is and bleeping move on.

infantrycak
04-13-2014, 10:12 PM
Wait, someone used Theisman as a positive example of an upside?

Damn, thought I'd have lived a little longer before having heard everything.

thunderkyss
04-13-2014, 10:12 PM
We have been talking the same tired handful of players since around Halloween. My interest starts at pick 2.1 ( unless the less than 10% chance of a trade down happens). in short, the Texans can't declare (or make silly obvious) who the number 1 pick is and bleeping move on.

I believe our chances of trading the #1 pick would go up if St. Louis wasn't so tight lipped. We need the media to start generating some buzz so other teams can start thinking about leap frogging them.

badboy
04-13-2014, 10:15 PM
You're awful optimistic about Manziel. His downside is much, much greater than Brister/Smith. Think JaMarcus Russel/Akili Smithy/Ryan Leaf.

Upside would be Young/Tarkington

Except smaller and possibly more fragile.

The interesting part for me ( and it would be much better if it was another team) is how much stock do you put in upside/downside.In considering upside/downside one must also consider percentage of each happening. For example, IMO there is less chance of JM busting so while there could be downside it is less risky for me. That is why I finally came around to him.

DocBar
04-13-2014, 10:16 PM
In considering upside/downside one must also consider percentage of each happening. For example, IMO there is less chance of JM busting so while there could be downside it is less risky for me. That is why I finally came around to him.You should be drug tested. Often. As in hourly.

badboy
04-13-2014, 10:18 PM
You should be drug tested. Often. As in hourly.or you and I could debate? (Manziel not my drug testing)

DocBar
04-13-2014, 10:30 PM
or you and I could debate? (Manziel not my drug testing)Yes we could debate Manziel. Drug testing to be debated later. LOL

Manzeil is a college phenom and there have been many more college phenom's fail at the NFL level than make it. At the NFL level, every single player is faster, smarter and stronger than the average player a college player faces every week. Too many college phenoms have proven to be NFL busts for me to feel very comfortable with naming Manziel a sure thing, or even a good bet, in the NFL. His downside is as out of this world as his upside is, which makes him a no-go for me.

ArlingtonTexan
04-13-2014, 10:32 PM
I believe our chances of trading the #1 pick would go up if St. Louis wasn't so tight lipped. We need the media to start generating some buzz so other teams can start thinking about leap frogging them.

The last trade down from the overall number 1 was 10 years ago and was basically forced by a dude with real life family pull. it really does not matter what the Rams or the media does. If the Texans get to move out of that spot, it is good fortune and probably taking less than history and the value chart says that it should.

ATXtexanfan
04-13-2014, 10:32 PM
totally interested. we could blow this like carr vs peppers

thunderkyss
04-13-2014, 10:39 PM
or you and I could debate? (Manziel not my drug testing)

I don't like that Manziel only played two years in college. I like to see 4 years, but I'm ok with 3 years. I'd feel better about a guy's ability to consistently play at a high level after three years of solid play.

A big part of that is expectations change over time & most people tend to try to be that guy they were, or try to recreate whatever magic they had before, while trying to live up to those expectations.

But JFF set the bar pretty high pretty quick as a redshirt freshman & he at least met the expectations people had of him.

Then in John Gruden's Football Camp, he was trying to explain something (I never could figure it out) but he started about never winning a highschool championship, then never winning a NCAAF championship... So I'm wondering, if it's important to him to win a Championship, why didn't he go back for his Jr year?

I'm sure A&M would have been in the conversation, at least before the season started, if he had decided to go back to A&M.

badboy
04-13-2014, 10:41 PM
Yes we could debate Manziel. Drug testing to be debated later. LOL

Manzeil is a college phenom and there have been many more college phenom's fail at the NFL level than make it. At the NFL level, every single player is faster, smarter and stronger than the average player a college player faces every week. Too many college phenoms have proven to be NFL busts for me to feel very comfortable with naming Manziel a sure thing, or even a good bet, in the NFL. His downside is as out of this world as his upside is, which makes him a no-go for me.and probably every single Texans' player will be better than what JM had at A&M. I try not to focus too much when comparing a college player to a pro. rather I observe skill set and decide if it translates. People comparing Manziel to Tebow make me chuckle.

Hervoyel
04-13-2014, 10:45 PM
I kind of have some guys I want the team to draft but if they don't do what I want I don't really care. I really don't follow it in the kind of detail that many here do so I'm more likely to wait and see who they took, then go do some research on those guys and decide after the fact whether to get excited about what's coming up or not.

I used to spend more time looking at the college prospects but I've been drifting away from NCAA ball for some time and rarely watch more than a few games a year now. I also don't get as fired up over the draft. When they did it on the weekend and had three picks on the first day it was kind of a big deal to me. As they've spread it out over three days and moved it into Friday and then Thursday (if I am remember thing correctly) I've stopped making a big deal out of it. I'm not sure what they were trying to accomplish by doing that. One day of picks 1-3 is like a BBQ-Draft watching party to me. One week night waiting on a single pick isn't really worth my time. I'll wait until it's over and just check the list. To my mind they broke the draft trying to turn it into a TV special to sell advertising through.

badboy
04-13-2014, 10:47 PM
I don't like that Manziel only played two years in college. I like to see 4 years, but I'm ok with 3 years. I'd feel better about a guy's ability to consistently play at a high level after three years of solid play.

A big part of that is expectations change over time & most people tend to try to be that guy they were, or try to recreate whatever magic they had before, while trying to live up to those expectations.

But JFF set the bar pretty high pretty quick as a redshirt freshman & he at least met the expectations people had of him.

Then in John Gruden's Football Camp, he was trying to explain something (I never could figure it out) but he started about never winning a highschool championship, then never winning a NCAAF championship... So I'm wondering, if it's important to him to win a Championship, why didn't he go back for his Jr year?

I'm sure A&M would have been in the conversation, at least before the season started, if he had decided to go back to A&M.usually I like to see a player stay in college football or basketball but I think each of these QBs would do better under O'Brien than their college coach. Of course $ is a powerful factor and would be for me also. You could say the same for Jameis Winston if he comes out next year.

badboy
04-13-2014, 10:51 PM
I kind of have some guys I want the team to draft but if they don't do what I want I don't really care. I really don't follow it in the kind of detail that many here do so I'm more likely to wait and see who they took, then go do some research on those guys and decide after the fact whether to get excited about what's coming up or not.

I used to spend more time looking at the college prospects but I've been drifting away from NCAA ball for some time and rarely watch more than a few games a year now. I also don't get as fired up over the draft. When they did it on the weekend and had three picks on the first day it was kind of a big deal to me. As they've spread it out over three days and moved it into Friday and then Thursday (if I am remember thing correctly) I've stopped making a big deal out of it. I'm not sure what they were trying to accomplish by doing that. One day of picks 1-3 is like a BBQ-Draft watching party to me. One week night waiting on a single pick isn't really worth my time. I'll wait until it's over and just check the list. To my mind they broke the draft trying to turn it into a TV special to sell advertising through.I've gone the other way and watch probably 3-4 times college than I use to. The 3 day draft I understand you but the possibility of trades still hooks me for round one and who picks who adds to excitement for players falling to me ..er Texans.
NFL went to three days as interest keeps climbing and old man money keeps rollin, rollin along.

ObsiWan
04-13-2014, 11:37 PM
I think they have more misses than "normal" & I think it's because of the way they go about setting up their board. "We" like to believe that there's somewhat of a consensus as to player rankings. Right now, our "good boy" policy drives people up the wall.

Well I don't think anyone knows what it takes to qualify for the Patriots list.
Perhaps this article (http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/new-england-patriots/post/_/id/4720762/bill-belichick-draft-philosophy) will provide a little insight...
1. Building a team, not collecting talent. "That's one of his favorite sayings. By that he means putting players in the right role, how they can contribute to the team, and defining that role."

2. Never fall in love with one player. "Bill is very analytical. Bill is all about not falling in love with a player. Bill is looking at value. He wants the correct definition of the player and the correct value of the player. When he determines that, then he understands where he can move around in the draft [with trades]. ... His whole approach is value -- 'if I trade down, I get better value.' But the key component as to why he's traded down all these years was the rising cost of rookie draft picks. He did not want to bring somebody into his locker room that was going to be in the top 5 payroll of his team."

3. Small draft room. "He's one of the best listeners that I've ever been around. The draft room will be very small. ... It will only be four people. Belichick's big thing is that he's not looking for more opinions, he's looking for right opinions. The scouts do their job, which is prepare him for the draft, then ... there is only one decision-maker in New England. He doesn't want any confusion on draft day."

4. Trade reputation is well-known. "People know it's one-stop shopping. All you have to do is make a phone call to him and he's easy to make a trade with. He's very good at sensing what is going to happen. I would say around the 15th pick in the draft this year, he'll have an idea of what player he's going to get, and if he'll have to move."

steelbtexan
04-13-2014, 11:37 PM
Wait, someone used Theisman as a positive example of an upside?

Damn, thought I'd have lived a little longer before having heard everything.

You mean 1 time SB winner and 2 time SB participant?

Or 2 time pro bowler?

infantrycak
04-13-2014, 11:49 PM
You mean 1 time SB winner and 2 time SB participant?

Or 2 time pro bowler?

Next you'll be telling us Dilfer is a positive outcome example.

steelbtexan
04-13-2014, 11:52 PM
Next you'll be telling us Dilfer is a positive outcome example.

Old time Cowgirls hater fan?

I respect the hate that we share for the Redskins.

Check out Theisman's career at Pro football reference. Much better than Dilfer

WolverineFan
04-13-2014, 11:54 PM
In considering upside/downside one must also consider percentage of each happening. For example, IMO there is less chance of JM busting so while there could be downside it is less risky for me. That is why I finally came around to him.

Manziel has less chance of busting in comparison to who?

IMO, Manziel might have the highest bust potential in this entire draft. He also might have the most potential. He's an absolute wildcard.

Pitbull 56
04-13-2014, 11:58 PM
2014 is indeed a very deep draft. Personally, I would like the Texans draft Clowney and take Garopollo with the 33rd pick.

infantrycak
04-14-2014, 12:01 AM
Old time Cowgirls hater fan?

I respect the hate that we share for the Redskins.

Old time Cowboys fan so saw a lot of Theisman and always thought he was a QB holding a team back more than a QB lifting them up. Heck the Cowboys' P/QB was better.

ObsiWan
04-14-2014, 12:19 AM
I kind of have some guys I want the team to draft but if they don't do what I want I don't really care. I really don't follow it in the kind of detail that many here do so I'm more likely to wait and see who they took, then go do some research on those guys and decide after the fact whether to get excited about what's coming up or not.

I used to spend more time looking at the college prospects but I've been drifting away from NCAA ball for some time and rarely watch more than a few games a year now. I also don't get as fired up over the draft. When they did it on the weekend and had three picks on the first day it was kind of a big deal to me. As they've spread it out over three days and moved it into Friday and then Thursday (if I am remember thing correctly) I've stopped making a big deal out of it. I'm not sure what they were trying to accomplish by doing that. One day of picks 1-3 is like a BBQ-Draft watching party to me. One week night waiting on a single pick isn't really worth my time. I'll wait until it's over and just check the list. To my mind they broke the draft trying to turn it into a TV special to sell advertising through.
I could have posted this exact same train of thought; especially the part about going away from the original 1-3 picks on one day and the rest of the draft on the second day. I absolutely HATE the new format. Like Herv, I refuse to blow a whole evening watching each team make one damned pick on the first day. (MSR by the way)
Not when there's an app for that. :)

Seriously, put it back the way it was Roger; damn you.:foottap:

I'm beginning to suspect that its the networks who are actually running the NFL.

keyser
04-14-2014, 01:23 AM
I'm normally pretty interested in the draft, but I'm having trouble getting into it this year.

Part of this is that my life is much busier, so I don't have time to read about players as much as I used to.

Part of it is the draft timing - Coming a week into May just feels really really late, and the offseason seems to be taking forever. Why are they waiting so long? It's killed my enthusiasm more than it's helped it.

Part of it is that I am feeling more and more depressed about the Texans. I wrote a post about this somewhere a while back so I won't rehash the whole thing here, but it seems the team must be planning a big rebuilding effort, and yet the lack of any signifiant free agency moves, or much else that shows the team has a plan in place to really improve, worries me. I feel we're losing ground this offseason instead of gaining.

Part of it is that I'm more depressed than excited about the opportunities for the #1 pick. Normally there's some excitement to see who will be available at our pick, whether we might move up or down, etc. This year, we are likely stuck at #1 (or will get a less-than-great deal), and none of the likely picks excite me as a #1 overall pick. As I said, I haven't had time to look at others players much at all, so I have little sense of what things look like for our later round options.

Probably my interest will pick up again over the next 4 weeks, but for the moment, it's way lower than usual.

Exascor
04-14-2014, 09:30 AM
My interest in the draft has slowing declined after the Mario/Bush/Young debate. I knew it didn't matter who I wanted - I wanted Young - sue me! I felt that the fans couldn't be as wrong as the Texans made them seem. Fans wanted either Bush or Young. Sure there was a microscopic portion that wanted someone else but the vast majority were locked into one of those 2 players. Even as bad as Young's career ended up, I still feel he'd have made a bigger positive impact on the team than Mario. It also just really dawned on me just how much time I spent watching college players "scouting" them for my team. I still watch enough to not be completely lost but won't "scout" or dissect games.

Now fast forward to 2014. Looks like we are in a similar situation to 2006. Clowney as Mario (defensive physical specimen), Manziel as Young (local college phenom) & Bortles/Bridgewater as Bush (talented but with question marks). This board is divided at least among 4 large camps and there's way more "other" camps than in 2006. When the 1st pick is finally announced it will be booed by 1/2 the fans. That's what will be shown on ESPN over and over. This will be really ugly. Mark my words.

Also - I'm with Herv. The draft was an "event" when rounds 1-3 were on the first day. Even the second day's picks went so fast it made it interesting. Now I'll watch around the time the Texans are supposed to pick if I watch at all.

HOU-TEX
04-14-2014, 09:54 AM
What's the over/under on the number of times they go to commercial when the Texans pick?

thunderkyss
04-14-2014, 09:56 AM
What's the over/under on the number of times they go to commercial when the Texans pick?

I was wondering how they were going to pull that off, when we've got the first pick. Then it dawned on me that they should have plenty of practice... third time in 12 years that we had the #1 pick.

powda
04-14-2014, 10:04 AM
What's the over/under on the number of times they go to commercial when the Texans pick?

We have 11 picks right now? 11.

HOU-TEX
04-14-2014, 10:12 AM
We have 11 picks right now? 11.

Ha, even the number 1 overall? That would be a major fail. lol

steelbtexan
04-14-2014, 11:04 AM
I kind of have some guys I want the team to draft but if they don't do what I want I don't really care. I really don't follow it in the kind of detail that many here do so I'm more likely to wait and see who they took, then go do some research on those guys and decide after the fact whether to get excited about what's coming up or not.

I used to spend more time looking at the college prospects but I've been drifting away from NCAA ball for some time and rarely watch more than a few games a year now. I also don't get as fired up over the draft. When they did it on the weekend and had three picks on the first day it was kind of a big deal to me. As they've spread it out over three days and moved it into Friday and then Thursday (if I am remember thing correctly) I've stopped making a big deal out of it. I'm not sure what they were trying to accomplish by doing that. One day of picks 1-3 is like a BBQ-Draft watching party to me. One week night waiting on a single pick isn't really worth my time. I'll wait until it's over and just check the list. To my mind they broke the draft trying to turn it into a TV special to sell advertising through.

MSR

We have had a crawfish boil on the last Saturday in April for a decade. Before that draft days were changed we could stand around, have a few beers/eat crawfish and talk about who the Texans had draft or who we hoped they would draft. People planned their last weekend in April around the crawfish boil. Then God'ell changed the draft to a 3 day event and that made the draft talk at the crawfish boil anti climatic.

Now God'ell has changed the draft to May 10th and who knows how the party will turn out. I do believe God'ell is the worst thing that could've ever happened to the NFL. His liberal stances on to hard of hits, defenseless WR's, he** RB's cant even lower their heads now, removing kickoffs from game etc... Now God'ell has decide to mess with the very successful model that Tags left him by moving the draft. One day he's going to lose the diehard fans htat he takes for granted now. When that happens and the game is in trouble the owners will all be asking how they let God'ell kill the golden goose. When in truth the Kraft/Mara/Jones/McNairs of the world will have nobody to blame but themselves.

The killing of the game is already happening all in the name of ego/power/$$$$/greed. In a way I hope the death of the NFL is quick and painfl, the owners/God'ell deserve what they get.

Errant Hothy
04-14-2014, 11:21 AM
This off season has not been as bad as I feared it was going to be, '06 will probably always be the worst; but that may be a function more of how little time I spend on the board these days. My interest is also lessened by the draft being over 3 days. Hate the now format.

powda
04-14-2014, 11:51 AM
MSR

Got him for ya.

I kind of have some guys I want the team to draft but if they don't do what I want I don't really care. I really don't follow it in the kind of detail that many here do so I'm more likely to wait and see who they took, then go do some research on those guys and decide after the fact whether to get excited about what's coming up or not.

I used to spend more time looking at the college prospects but I've been drifting away from NCAA ball for some time and rarely watch more than a few games a year now. I also don't get as fired up over the draft. When they did it on the weekend and had three picks on the first day it was kind of a big deal to me. As they've spread it out over three days and moved it into Friday and then Thursday (if I am remember thing correctly) I've stopped making a big deal out of it. I'm not sure what they were trying to accomplish by doing that. One day of picks 1-3 is like a BBQ-Draft watching party to me. One week night waiting on a single pick isn't really worth my time. I'll wait until it's over and just check the list. To my mind they broke the draft trying to turn it into a TV special to sell advertising through.

This is almost where I am. I still look forward to it...and I will be watching every Texans pick...but it's less important to me then it used to be. I used to feel like it was my own personal holliday weekend. I guess watching countless years of busted picks...and rarely seeing the Texans select who I want them to pick has taken its toll. Re-visiting some of the early Texans drafts (Casserley era) is about the worst. Why was it so important to me when it clearley wasnt to the team's gm? I will be watching and I want to be excited about it...but i'm just not.

IDEXAN
04-14-2014, 12:01 PM
Of course it would be great to have the Draft of 2012 with Luck and RGIII, but we could have had last years "talent" where an OLT who's not rated among this years top 3 players at his position went #1 overall. And make no mistake, we are in the catbirdes seat with the #1 as long as we don't have unreasonable expectations about the value of our pick.
And oh yea, I'm totally into the Draft !

JB
04-14-2014, 12:05 PM
MSR
His liberal stances on to hard of hits, defenseless WR's, he** RB's cant even lower their heads now, removing kickoffs from game etc...



How big a part did all the lawsuits and outcry from concussions have to do with this?

The Pencil Neck
04-14-2014, 01:39 PM
I love the draft. It's like Christmas.

I love doing some research to get a feel for where guys are going to go and I love trying to figure out what steps we're going to take to improve our team.

With the regime change, there are a lot more questions this year than there are normally. With Kubiak, I knew what sorts of players he was looking for on offense although I never could tell what sort of defensive players they were going to be looking for. And for all the research I'd put into things, they always found a way to draft guys I didn't expect.

With the OB/RAC offense/defense, I have no idea what's going to happen. In a way, that's very scary and in another way, that's very exciting.

With 11 picks, I'm hoping we upgrade our roster. And I'm hoping that the other teams in our division make mistakes.

badboy
04-14-2014, 03:16 PM
Manziel has less chance of busting in comparison to who?

IMO, Manziel might have the highest bust potential in this entire draft. He also might have the most potential. He's an absolute wildcard.Did you miss the part where I said I don't like to compare college players to NFL guys? IMO, Manziel has low bust factor. I am only concerned about his running & I think Gruden really got his attention in his critique.

Bold, you can say exact same about Bridgewater, Bortles or Clowney. Safest pick Watkins or Mosley.

The Pencil Neck
04-14-2014, 03:23 PM
IMO, Manziel has low bust factor.

I feel exactly the opposite. He's a guy I can't imagine doing anything other than busting. When I watch him play, I see a guy who's great on Saturday but who'll never be anything other than a curiosity on Sunday.

badboy
04-14-2014, 03:30 PM
I'm normally pretty interested in the draft, but I'm having trouble getting into it this year.

Part of this is that my life is much busier, so I don't have time to read about players as much as I used to.

Part of it is the draft timing - Coming a week into May just feels really really late, and the offseason seems to be taking forever. Why are they waiting so long? It's killed my enthusiasm more than it's helped it.

Part of it is that I am feeling more and more depressed about the Texans. I wrote a post about this somewhere a while back so I won't rehash the whole thing here, but it seems the team must be planning a big rebuilding effort, and yet the lack of any signifiant free agency moves, or much else that shows the team has a plan in place to really improve, worries me. I feel we're losing ground this offseason instead of gaining.

Part of it is that I'm more depressed than excited about the opportunities for the #1 pick. Normally there's some excitement to see who will be available at our pick, whether we might move up or down, etc. This year, we are likely stuck at #1 (or will get a less-than-great deal), and none of the likely picks excite me as a #1 overall pick. As I said, I haven't had time to look at others players much at all, so I have little sense of what things look like for our later round options.

Probably my interest will pick up again over the next 4 weeks, but for the moment, it's way lower than usual.Free agency: new QB that could start, S Clemmons who should start over Swearinger, back up if not starter NT Powe, backup RB Andre Brown, possible safety back up Kendrick Lewis could beat out Keo...fairly significant to me and we still have June 1st cuts to review.

Playoffs
04-14-2014, 04:06 PM
My interest in the draft is at its highest, as you may see from my many posts. Apologies if I'm "running the forum"... just trying to get as much good information as possible out there to better inform the members. TexansTalk has a number of very good scouting contributors who provide in depth looks at these prospects from the top to the bottom of the draft. I see a lot of our content being posted all around the 'net, so I guess it's relevant and TT is gaining popularity.

I could not be more excited about our HC hire, Bill O'Brien, and his bringing in guys like Mike Vrabel to teach & guide our team. I can see OB growing into more of a Belichick role (minus the cheating) in the future.

This is the most important draft in team history, imo. I'm of the opinion great organizations go with BPA within reason, and with as many holes as we have we might as well start doing what the best do to be the best...

But with a QB "whisperer" head coach, #1 is up in the air until 7:00PM CDT, May 8th (http://www.nfl.com/draft/2014). :doot:

WolverineFan
04-14-2014, 04:52 PM
I feel exactly the opposite. He's a guy I can't imagine doing anything other than busting. When I watch him play, I see a guy who's great on Saturday but who'll never be anything other than a curiosity on Sunday.

This. I can't really think of a guy in recent history who scares me more as a prospect than Manziel. Tons of upside, but just so much potential to wash right out.

Exascor
04-14-2014, 05:02 PM
I feel exactly the opposite. He's a guy I can't imagine doing anything other than busting. When I watch him play, I see a guy who's great on Saturday but who'll never be anything other than a curiosity on Sunday.
This. I can't really think of a guy in recent history who scares me more as a prospect than Manziel. Tons of upside, but just so much potential to wash right out.What scares me more than taking a risk on Manziel is getting a QB like Andy Dalton that is just good enough you can't dump him. I'd rather draft Manziel and have him not on the team 2-3 years from now than draft a QB that hangs around for 6-8 years and has the team in perpetual mediocrity.

steelbtexan
04-14-2014, 05:06 PM
I love the draft. It's like Christmas.

I love doing some research to get a feel for where guys are going to go and I love trying to figure out what steps we're going to take to improve our team.

With the regime change, there are a lot more questions this year than there are normally. With Kubiak, I knew what sorts of players he was looking for on offense although I never could tell what sort of defensive players they were going to be looking for. And for all the research I'd put into things, they always found a way to draft guys I didn't expect.

With the OB/RAC offense/defense, I have no idea what's going to happen. In a way, that's very scary and in another way, that's very exciting.

With 11 picks, I'm hoping we upgrade our roster. And I'm hoping that the other teams in our division make mistakes.

Maybe

Rick/Gary/Wade should've looked at your research. You can do much worse than 2-14.

The Pencil Neck
04-14-2014, 05:09 PM
What scares me more than taking a risk on Manziel is getting a QB like Andy Dalton that is just good enough you can't dump him. I'd rather draft Manziel and have him not on the team 2-3 years from now than draft a QB that hangs around for 6-8 years and has the team in perpetual mediocrity.

See... I don't like EITHER of those options. That's why I think you do NOT force the pick of a QB just because you need a QB. You don't want to get stuck with a Sam Bradford or an Andy Dalton... not to mention a complete wash-out.

If you see a QB you think is going to be great, go get him. If you don't, then don't force it.

steelbtexan
04-14-2014, 05:25 PM
How big a part did all the lawsuits and outcry from concussions have to do with this?

God'ell should've advised the greedy owners to pay off the former players and leave the game alone. Then made current/future players to sign waivers regarding head injuries.

That would've been the smart thing to do, but God'ell decided to lead the owners down this current path of greed. If John Mara's dad had the same greedy values the NFL probably wouldn't exist today.

JB
04-14-2014, 07:02 PM
God'ell should've advised the greedy owners to pay off the former players and leave the game alone. Then made current/future players to sign waivers regarding head injuries.

That would've been the smart thing to do, but God'ell decided to lead the owners down this current path of greed. If John Mara's dad had the same greedy values the NFL probably wouldn't exist today.

I just can't buy into the idea that Goodell is leading a group of billionaire owners any where. Dude is an employee and mouthpiece. Yeah he has some sway in some things but c'mon man, he's just a single focal point cuz it's easy that way.

DocBar
04-14-2014, 08:53 PM
and probably every single Texans' player will be better than what JM had at A&M. I try not to focus too much when comparing a college player to a pro. rather I observe skill set and decide if it translates. People comparing Manziel to Tebow make me chuckle.I'm looking purely at skillset. I'm not a JM hater ( I rather enjoyed watching him at aTm )
but his skillset was much more effective against the lesser talent levels in the NCAA than he'll face at the NFL level. Not to mention the talent and skills of the DC's he'll be facing. He's not going to fool NFL DC's for very long and with the recent influx of QB's with very similar skillsets, they have a head start on game planning for him.

If we could get him mid 1st round or later, I wouldn't be complaining, but at 1.1, I wouldn't like it. And I would immediately start rooting for him to prove me wrong. And it would guarantee the Texans a permanent spot in the ESPN shuffle. :spin:

I guess you could put me in the trade down camp and take BPA, or draft Clowney at 1.1 and the BQBA at 2.1, unless there's an absolute no-brainer there.

I could actually live with the three QB's on the roster right now, for a season and have the Texans take a flier on Murray, Mettenberger, Savage (kind of intriguing being from Pitt and all ) or McCarron 0n day 2 or 3.

DocBar
04-14-2014, 08:54 PM
I just can't buy into the idea that Goodell is leading a group of billionaire owners any where. Dude is an employee and mouthpiece. Yeah he has some sway in some things but c'mon man, he's just a single focal point cuz it's easy that way.Agreed. He's just the face of the 32 owners and what they, collectively, want.

steelbtexan
04-14-2014, 09:38 PM
I just can't buy into the idea that Goodell is leading a group of billionaire owners any where. Dude is an employee and mouthpiece. Yeah he has some sway in some things but c'mon man, he's just a single focal point cuz it's easy that way.

Agreed

Kinda like Smith having very little responsibility for 2-14.

We just don't know.

I believe Mara/Kraft lead God'ell around by the nose.

thunderkyss
04-14-2014, 09:55 PM
What scares me more than taking a risk on Manziel is getting a QB like Andy Dalton that is just good enough you can't dump him. I'd rather draft Manziel and have him not on the team 2-3 years from now than draft a QB that hangs around for 6-8 years and has the team in perpetual mediocrity.

Are we talking about guys like Bradford, Stafford, & Ryan?

thunderkyss
04-14-2014, 10:05 PM
I'm looking purely at skillset. I'm not a JM hater ( I rather enjoyed watching him at aTm )
but his skillset was much more effective against the lesser talent levels in the NCAA than he'll face at the NFL level. Not to mention the talent and skills of the DC's he'll be facing. He's not going to fool NFL DC's for very long and with the recent influx of QB's with very similar skillsets, they have a head start on game planning for him.

How long did it take them to figure out John Elway, Joe Montana, & Steve Young?

Or did they play against tougher competition in college.

The Pencil Neck
04-15-2014, 12:04 AM
How long did it take them to figure out John Elway, Joe Montana, & Steve Young?

Or did they play against tougher competition in college.

All three of those guys had to figure out how to play in the pros and I don't see anything in Montana or Elway that's similar to Manziel's situation.

At 6'3" and about 220#, Elway was a big QB for his time. Although he was a bit of a scrambler, he was more of a Luck type of scrambler instead of a pure runner. He was smart and he played within the offense.

Joe Montana was a pocket passer in a pocket passing system and it took him a few years to learn how to do it. He was a later round draft pick and wasn't the anointed starter until his 3rd season. He's a perfect system guy. He's almost the polar opposite of Manziel.

Now. Steve Young. He's the type of guy Manziel is and he played the type of game that Manziel plays. And he was horrible his first several years in the pros. He had to learn how to stop doing what he was doing and he had to learn to start doing it within the context of the offense. That's what Manziel has to learn and I don't think he's going to be given time enough to do that at his first team. I expect him to bounce around a bit and IF he figured out how to play in the NFL, it will probably be later in his career.

DocBar
04-15-2014, 12:36 AM
How long did it take them to figure out John Elway, Joe Montana, & Steve Young?

Or did they play against tougher competition in college.Different eras. And it's a well known known fact that the Niners did a phenom job as far as Montanta and You are concerned. Elway was a prima donna from day one but was stronger than every top 2014 draft pick combined, so yeah....Apples and oranges.

badboy
04-15-2014, 12:44 AM
Manziel can do it all..he's just not as tall. If you are concerned he might not hold up IF he continues to scramble then fair point; but to say he cannot do what other QBs do/did is not accurate.

keyser
04-15-2014, 06:11 AM
Free agency: new QB that could start, S Clemmons who should start over Swearinger, back up if not starter NT Powe, backup RB Andre Brown, possible safety back up Kendrick Lewis could beat out Keo...fairly significant to me and we still have June 1st cuts to review.

Well, this seems like a really optimistic view to me, but I could use some optimism. My take, though: I think if Fitzpatrick is our starter, we are in trouble. Clemmons might be an upgrade, but doesn't feel like any sort of game changer. The others seem like backups who we hope maybe can contribute. Seems like we've lost some decent high-profile players, also: Antonio Smith, Owen Daniels, Ben Tate, and to me Daneal Manning - other than Manning, it's not clear we've made up at all for those losses. I am not expecting or really even wanting a big FA "splash" hire - probably not what we need. But, it doesn't even feel like we've brought in talent that matches what we've lost, much less made any real progress during FA - leading to me not being too excited about the future, draft included. Of course, maybe O'Brien has a better eye and these backups we've picked up from other squads will blossom on the Texans - I certainly hope that's the case.

Scooter
04-15-2014, 06:24 AM
i've got very hardline opinions on what we should do. once it comes to draft day, or at least a few days after, i think i wont really care about who gets chosen and where ... i'll be too excited about what the picks could do for our 2014 season.

thunderkyss
04-15-2014, 07:28 AM
All three of those guys had to figure out how to play in the pros and I don't see anything in Montana or Elway that's similar to Manziel's situation.

At 6'3" and about 220#, Elway was a big QB for his time.


Different eras. And it's a well known known fact that the Niners did a phenom job as far as Montanta and You are concerned. Elway was a prima donna from day one but was stronger than every top 2014 draft pick combined, so yeah....Apples and oranges.

I agree it's a different era, but the more things change... As long as the team is winning, JFF has time to figure it out. Same as Newton, same as Kaepernick, same as Luck. If a team spends a first round pick on him, they'll suffer a 4-12 season, maybe more.

& yeah, Elway's was bigger than JFF, but I wasn't talking about his longevity. The magic he made with his feet, being able to improvise & save a broken play... that was a big part of his game. Same with Montana, same with Young, same with Farve, same with Romo, etc... etc...

If you're thinking tucking the ball & running forward is Johnny's "style" then yeah, that's not going to work. He won't last long at all doing that (ala RG3), but that's not what I think about when I think Johnny Football.

IDEXAN
04-15-2014, 10:19 AM
Former Texans' GM Charley Casserly was on one of the Houston sports talk shows yesterday, and in reviewing what happened when he was the GM in Houston, Casserly said they didn't receive a single offer to trade the #1 pick in 2002 or 2006. So even though we've got a different CBA now than in the past with respect to the cap, I suspect it's still a very long-shot to pull off a deal.

thunderkyss
04-15-2014, 10:36 AM
Former Texans' GM Charley Casserly was on one of the Houston sports talk shows yesterday, and in reviewing what happened when he was the GM in Houston, Casserly said they didn't receive a single offer to trade the #1 pick in 2002 or 2006. So even though we've got a different CBA now than in the past with respect to the cap, I suspect it's still a very long-shot to pull off a deal.

Or, after some time has passed, say a week before the draft, if I'm Rick Smith, I get a little more pro-active & start making calls myself.

The Pencil Neck
04-15-2014, 10:43 AM
I agree it's a different era, but the more things change... As long as the team is winning, JFF has time to figure it out. Same as Newton, same as Kaepernick, same as Luck. If a team spends a first round pick on him, they'll suffer a 4-12 season, maybe more.

& yeah, Elway's was bigger than JFF, but I wasn't talking about his longevity. The magic he made with his feet, being able to improvise & save a broken play... that was a big part of his game. Same with Montana, same with Young, same with Farve, same with Romo, etc... etc...

If you're thinking tucking the ball & running forward is Johnny's "style" then yeah, that's not going to work. He won't last long at all doing that (ala RG3), but that's not what I think about when I think Johnny Football.

Well. OK. We have entirely different views on what JFFs style is, then. Because as far as I'm concerned, he's less of a passer than RGIII and instead of improvising to save a broken play, JFF breaks the play to begin with so he can improvise.

michaelm
04-15-2014, 11:04 AM
DI am only concerned about his running & I think Gruden really got his attention in his critique.


JFF's entire playing style is both a huge injury risk factor, and the one single thing that makes him potentially unique, and you think a few words from Gruden will have significant impact?

DocBar
04-15-2014, 11:46 AM
Or, after some time has passed, say a week before the draft, if I'm Rick Smith, I get a little more pro-active & start making calls myself.Won't you lose most of your leverage doing that?

Well. OK. We have entirely different views on what JFFs style is, then. Because as far as I'm concerned, he's less of a passer than RGIII and instead of improvising to save a broken play, JFF breaks the play to begin with so he can improvise.Exactly!!JFF reminds me of Mike Vick in that regard. JFF isn't even a cousin to a pocket passer. If he can't get out of the pocket and run around, his play drops off considerably.
MSR

infantrycak
04-15-2014, 12:18 PM
Well. OK. We have entirely different views on what JFFs style is, then. Because as far as I'm concerned, he's less of a passer than RGIII and instead of improvising to save a broken play, JFF breaks the play to begin with so he can improvise.

Bingo.

JFF's entire playing style is both a huge injury risk factor, and the one single thing that makes him potentially unique, and you think a few words from Gruden will have significant impact?

Coachability is the $64k question for Manziel.

Exactly!!JFF reminds me of Mike Vick in that regard. JFF isn't even a cousin to a pocket passer. If he can't get out of the pocket and run around, his play drops off considerably.

When Manziel stays in the pocket he does well. BUT as you and TPN say there is a giant IF involved in whether he will do that.

DocBar
04-15-2014, 12:30 PM
When Manziel stays in the pocket he does well. BUT as you and TPN say there is a giant IF involved in whether he will do that.Weren't some his worst games were when teams kept him contained and he had to try to string together completions from the pocket?

infantrycak
04-15-2014, 12:55 PM
Weren't some his worst games were when teams kept him contained and he had to try to string together completions from the pocket?

His numbers inside the pocket are excellent but I would say sometimes his movement within the pocket isn't smart but he gets away with it - moves/weaves 5 steps when 2 would have done. It's another translation issue but it isn't as dire as he only throws well outside the pocket. I guess I am taking a stance in between he's an out of the pocket guy and he's an accomplished pocket passer based on his numbers. This is one where I will agree with TK on a comparison to Romo. Romo buys time a bunch of plays with dumb excessive running around but he gets away with it - until he doesn't and then has an epic fail play. Now will he still be dumb about it 10 years into his career like Romo or will he improve on it and get smart like Young?

badboy
04-15-2014, 01:23 PM
JFF's entire playing style is both a huge injury risk factor, and the one single thing that makes him potentially unique, and you think a few words from Gruden will have significant impact?You do not think Manziel changed and improved his play in 2013? His "risk" plays were less self initiated and from a break down. He should continue to improve.

ObsiWan
04-15-2014, 01:38 PM
Or, after some time has passed, say a week before the draft, if I'm Rick Smith, I get a little more pro-active & start making calls myself.
If WE have to make those calls, we're automatically negotiating from a weak position.
We'll go from having something that's really worth selling to trying to dump something we aren't sure we want.

thunderkyss
04-15-2014, 02:02 PM
Won't you lose most of your leverage doing that?



If WE have to make those calls, we're automatically negotiating from a weak position.
We'll go from having something that's really worth selling to trying to dump something we aren't sure we want.

Yes. We lose some leverage.

However, unless you believe that trades are initiated solely on the first day of the draft, that's the only play we have.

I don't think all trades start on trade day, at least not for the top 10 picks, I think we should have already gotten calls, say three weeks out, two weeks out, definitely a week out.

Just because I'm calling the teams I would be interested in doesn't mean I'm going to accept a deal I'm not comfortable with. I'm perfectly willing to take a player at the 1-1 spot.

So I'll call Cleveland, Atlanta, whoever, & tell them I'm looking to trade, what are they offering.. I'm still looking for the highest bidder.

steelbtexan
04-15-2014, 07:19 PM
I would be more excited if Smith weren't in charge of the draft.

Is he in charge of the draft?

If the draft is a poor one are we going to blame anything and everything for the franchises continued failures except Smith?

ObsiWan
04-17-2014, 07:17 PM
I would be more excited if Smith weren't in charge of the draft.

Is he in charge of the draft?

If the draft is a poor one are we going to blame anything and everything for the franchises continued failures except Smith?
Bottom line:
McNair is charge of the draft since he hired everyone that's going to be in that room.

http://ww1.hdnux.com/photos/15/16/51/3467880/3/628x471.jpg
^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^
http://www.historictours.com/keywest/images/harry-truman-buck-stops-here.jpg

...happy?

JB
04-17-2014, 09:56 PM
the longer it takes, and the more the talk here the less interested I get

Texian
04-17-2014, 10:25 PM
I would be more excited if Smith weren't in charge of the draft.

Is he in charge of the draft?

If the draft is a poor one are we going to blame anything and everything for the franchises continued failures except Smith?

FWIW - In the McClain interview with O'Leary and O'Brien the key advice that O'Brien received from multiple key sources was, make sure you're in charge.

My reading and interpretation is O'Brien has final say on the 53 man roster which includes the draft.

steelbtexan
04-18-2014, 12:43 AM
the longer it takes, and the more the talk here the less interested I get

How interested were you during the midst of 2-14?

Everything is/has been hunky dory in the Texans org.