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View Full Version : Kareem Martin-DE


Wolf6151
04-05-2014, 06:16 AM
This guy in 6'06" and 272 lbs., runs a 4.72 in the 40 with a 1.53 split at 10 yds. and 35" arms. He's got very good speed, quickness, and strength. Does anyone think that he has the athleticism to make the move to OLB and could be fit our 3-4 system at OLB? Your opinions on Martin as he relates to the Texans? Thanks. :d:

NCTexan
04-05-2014, 08:30 AM
II'm a huge fan of the kid and I hope he does extremely well. But watching him the past years I don't think he fits in a 3-4 anywhere. Too small to be a DE, and I don't think he can carry 20 more pounds and remain effective.

As for moving him to OLB, I think he's too stiff to play the position. Especially if you're going to want him dropping into coverage.

leebigeztx
04-05-2014, 09:04 PM
II'm a huge fan of the kid and I hope he does extremely well. But watching him the past years I don't think he fits in a 3-4 anywhere. Too small to be a DE, and I don't think he can't carry 20 more pounds and remain effective.

As for moving him to OLB, I think he's too stiff to play the position. Especially if you're going to want him dropping into coverage.


Yep. Same could be said for Clowney too. I agree though. Martin is really like a 43 lde.

Wolf6151
04-05-2014, 11:55 PM
II'm a huge fan of the kid and I hope he does extremely well. But watching him the past years I don't think he fits in a 3-4 anywhere. Too small to be a DE, and I don't think he can't carry 20 more pounds and remain effective.

As for moving him to OLB, I think he's too stiff to play the position. Especially if you're going to want him dropping into coverage.


I was thinking of him more as a WOLB where he'd rush the QB 99% of the time. Similar to the way we used Mario Williams a couple years ago. I agree to small for DE in our system and adding 20-25 lbs. would probably change his athleticism severly.

mussop
04-07-2014, 12:09 AM
I was thinking of him more as a WOLB where he'd rush the QB 99% of the time. Similar to the way we used Mario Williams a couple years ago. I agree to small for DE in our system and adding 20-25 lbs. would probably change his athleticism severly.

This!! Why is it people think you have to be able to drop back into coverage really well to play 3/4 OLB? Every scheme can and will be adjusted to the best of the player abilities.

As far as Martin is concerned it doesn't matter what anyone thinks. I seriously doubt he gets out of the first round.

leebigeztx
04-07-2014, 12:36 AM
This!! Why is it people think you have to be able to drop back into coverage really well to play 3/4 OLB? Every scheme can and will be adjusted to the best of the player abilities.

As far as Martin is concerned it doesn't matter what anyone thinks. I seriously doubt he gets out of the first round.

I doubt he gets drafted b4 the 3rd.

NCTexan
04-07-2014, 01:20 AM
I was thinking of him more as a WOLB where he'd rush the QB 99% of the time. Similar to the way we used Mario Williams a couple years ago. I agree to small for DE in our system and adding 20-25 lbs. would probably change his athleticism severly.

This!! Why is it people think you have to be able to drop back into coverage really well to play 3/4 OLB? Every scheme can and will be adjusted to the best of the player abilities.

As far as Martin is concerned it doesn't matter what anyone thinks. I seriously doubt he gets out of the first round.

I don't think he has bend for OLB either. I think he's strictly a 4-3 DE. And I'm a huge fan.

mussop
04-07-2014, 08:48 AM
I doubt he gets drafted b4 the 3rd.

You're right I was thinking of Ealy when I made that statement.

leebigeztx
04-08-2014, 12:14 AM
You're right I was thinking of Ealy when I made that statement.

I actually like Martin a lot as a 43 de. He's very good with his hands and he keeps a great angle on the qb. If the texans wanted flexibility like the old pats had with jarvis green,I could see martin in 3rd rd. Tbh, he could probably add 15 and play a 5 tech. So, I'm not dissin the player and his talents, just how posters are trying to use him.

Wolf6151
04-08-2014, 12:57 AM
Bulking him up and having him play at 3-4 DE, especially in our 2 gap system, I think would be a waste of his talents. As I understand the 2 gap system the DE and NT are used to take up blocks primarily, stop the run, hold containment, and free up the OLB's to make plays. I was thinking that Martin is primarily a 4-3 DE but was hoping that he might have enough athleticism to play 3-4 OLB, but if NCTexan says he lacks the bend to get around an OT and make plays then I'll trust him. I sure like Martins size, speed, length, and athleticism though. He's going to make someone very happy in May.

leebigeztx
04-08-2014, 03:55 AM
Bulking him up and having him play at 3-4 DE, especially in our 2 gap system, I think would be a waste of his talents. As I understand the 2 gap system the DE and NT are used to take up blocks primarily, stop the run, hold containment, and free up the OLB's to make plays. I was thinking that Martin is primarily a 4-3 DE but was hoping that he might have enough athleticism to play 3-4 OLB, but if NCTexan says he lacks the bend to get around an OT and make plays then I'll trust him. I sure like Martins size, speed, length, and athleticism though. He's going to make someone very happy in May.

I think people are overboard when they discuss RAC and his 2 gap system. If you really think about the conversation,if nfl defenses are 60% nickel,why are you 2 gaping if that predomiantly passing? On obvious run downs,sure they will 2 gap,but if you look back at those patriot defenses that were top 5 in sacks and pts allowed,they did a lot of 1 gap front slants. That's why seymour,warren and even the backup jarvi green would have 7 and 8 sacks,willie would get 8-10 and vrabel would do the same. When they got you in 2nd and obvious,3rd and obvious,it was get after the qb. Kareem Martin can get after the qb and he's a well put together player. I can easily see him adding 15 lbs and being in the sub package with watt and crick or on a 4 man front situational when watt and crick kicks inside and merci an martin on outside. He has a lot of value to any team.

NCTexan
04-08-2014, 09:21 AM
Bulking him up and having him play at 3-4 DE, especially in our 2 gap system, I think would be a waste of his talents. As I understand the 2 gap system the DE and NT are used to take up blocks primarily, stop the run, hold containment, and free up the OLB's to make plays. I was thinking that Martin is primarily a 4-3 DE but was hoping that he might have enough athleticism to play 3-4 OLB, but if NCTexan says he lacks the bend to get around an OT and make plays then I'll trust him. I sure like Martins size, speed, length, and athleticism though. He's going to make someone very happy in May.

While I appreciate the trust I am very new at evaluating players (only really seriously started last year) so I'm more than willing to admit I could be wrong.

Interestingly enough I just found this article;
He said he feels like he can play either the 3-4 or 4-3 defense at the pro level. If he stays at his current weight of 272 pounds, Martin feels comfortable playing outside linebacker in the 3-4 or as an end in the 4-3.

Read more here: http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2014/01/22/4632165/unc-defensive-end-kareem-martin.html#.U0QFfvldXJZ#storylink=cpy

In it (it won't let me copy the specific part) he says he feels comfortable being asked to be a 3-4 OLB.

I'm going to rewatch the Belk Bowl and maybe some other tape today looking at him as an OLB (when I evaluated earlier I looked strictly for the 4-3 skill set) and see if my opinion changes. I'll let you guys know.

NCTexan
04-08-2014, 10:41 PM
So here's my notes from the Bell Bowl. Mostly looking at plays forOLB stuff.

- On play action he contains but doesn't react well to the run. Soesn chase and in at least one play he missed the RB when he ran into him.
- Doesn't necessarily chase plays (motor?)
- Appears better with inside pressure than outside.
- On outside pressure he gets pushed out.
- Doesn't quite have the bend to get the sack, multiple plays he is close but not close enough to disrupt.
- OTs push him deep, he can't get around them quick enough.
- Has some pass rush moves.
- Show's ability to move laterally off a block to get ball carrier.
- Can slip through double teams if the blockers have a gap.

Now this wasn't his best game of the season, but it was a quick eval.

Thoughts?

leebigeztx
04-08-2014, 11:04 PM
So here's my notes from the Bell Bowl. Mostly looking at plays forOLB stuff.

- On play action he contains but doesn't react well to the run. Soesn chase and in at least one play he missed the RB when he ran into him.
- Doesn't necessarily chase plays (motor?)
- Appears better with inside pressure than outside.
- On outside pressure he gets pushed out.
- Doesn't quite have the bend to get the sack, multiple plays he is close but not close enough to disrupt.
- OTs push him deep, he can't get around them quick enough.
- Has some pass rush moves.
- Show's ability to move laterally off a block to get ball carrier.
- Can slip through double teams if the blockers have a gap.

Now this wasn't his best game of the season, but it was a quick eval.

Thoughts?

That's pretty good and accurate. That's why I say he can be a 5 tech like calais campbell of arizona. He's not a big ,but he has some of the same traits that can work well as a 3-4 de. People think guys are 2 gaping on 3 and 6 and they're not. Even in the 3-4, guys are trying to get to the qb.

WolverineFan
04-09-2014, 09:32 AM
I think Martin is strictly a DE. Either a 4-3 SDE or a 3-4 DE. He doesn't have a wide variety of pass rush moves and relies on his athleticism too much. He actually has pretty similar measureables to Clowney, but doesn't play with near the explosion and is not as refined as a pass rusher. He's also too stiff to stand up on the edge. However, despite his lack of variety of moves, he can still rush the passer and is very good against the run. That's why I like him at DE.

NCTexan
04-09-2014, 10:29 AM
I think Martin is strictly a DE. Either a 4-3 SDE or a 3-4 DE. He doesn't have a wide variety of pass rush moves and relies on his athleticism too much. He actually has pretty similar measureables to Clowney, but doesn't play with near the explosion and is not as refined as a pass rusher. He's also too stiff to stand up on the edge. However, despite his lack of variety of moves, he can still rush the passer and is very good against the run. That's why I like him at DE.

I'm just worried about him gaining the weight to play 3-4 DE that he'll lose that athleticism.

WolverineFan
04-09-2014, 11:12 AM
I'm just worried about him gaining the weight to play 3-4 DE that he'll lose that athleticism.

He will probably lose some, but he'll be going from elite athlete to great athlete and his skill set is better suited for the 5' technique than OLB.

NCTexan
04-09-2014, 11:17 AM
He will probably lose some, but he'll be going from elite athlete to great athlete and his skill set is better suited for the 5' technique than OLB.

Oh I definitely agree if you're going to play him in a 3-4 he should put on that weight, I guess I just see him as more of a strict 4-3 DE.

bah007
04-09-2014, 12:11 PM
I think with added weight he would be a good choice as a 34 DE. But I think the best scenario for him personally is to play as a 43 SDE.