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PapaL
04-04-2014, 03:55 PM
Didn't see this coming huh?

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/10724464/owen-daniels-agrees-one-year-deal-baltimore-ravens

The Baltimore Ravens reached a one-year agreement with tight end Owen Daniels on Thursday, the team confirmed.

Daniels, who was released by the Houston Texans on March 11, will take a physical in Baltimore on Friday to complete the deal. This reunites Daniels with former Texans coach Gary Kubiak, who is now the Ravens' offensive coordinator.

A two-time Pro Bowler, Daniels is expected to back up Dennis Pitta and play a significant role in the Ravens' two tight end packages. Daniels, 31, represents a major upgrade over Ed Dickson, the Ravens' No. 2 tight end, who was not re-signed.

Durability is the biggest concern with Daniels. He has been limited to 11 games or fewer in three of the past five seasons. Last season, Daniels played only five games because of a fractured fibula.

In his seven-year career, Daniels has caught over 50 passes four times and has scored a total of 29 touchdowns.

mattieuk
04-04-2014, 04:03 PM
I guess they are definately Houston B, now that the Denver connection is pretty much done in town.

Had to fill their ex-Tex quota after they cut Vonta.

handswarmer
04-04-2014, 04:19 PM
I guess they are definately Houston B, now that the Denver connection is pretty much done in town.

Had to fill their ex-Tex quota after they cut Vonta.

Absolutely! We wanted all the players from a 2-14 team to show us how to win!


SMDH

_King_
04-04-2014, 04:27 PM
Absolutely! We wanted all the players from a 2-14 team to show us how to win!


SMDH

That's just silly.

You want to know how to go 2-14, you get the coach.

htownfan32
04-04-2014, 05:29 PM
Absolutely! We wanted all the players from a 2-14 team to show us how to win!


SMDH

Lol what, can't take a joke? We used to call ourselves Denver South for the longest time thanks to Kubiak's system.

infantrycak
04-04-2014, 05:42 PM
The Baltimore Ravens' signing of tight end Owen Daniels capped off one of the most impressive free agency periods for an offense in rebuilding mode.

It also gained Steve Smith's approval.

"I truly believe you can never have too many horses in the stable," Smith said Thursday, via The Baltimore Sun. "You can never have too many fast cars in your garage."

Ravens #2 Most Improved Offense (http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000339342/article/redskins-ravens-top-nfls-mostimproved-offenses)

Amazing what a passed by predictable offense the league has figured out can do for you.

Playoffs
04-04-2014, 06:12 PM
Signed for 1/3rd what he was making here, a bit butthurt...

Baltimore Ravens ‏@Ravens
Owen Daniels on Houston: "I think we’re playing down there this year, so what Steve Smith said about playing in Carolina." #BloodAndGuts

Owen Daniels on Texans: "I let go of where I was the last eight years whenever they let me go. I wasn’t good enough for them anymore."OD was a great teammate/Texan, but what did he expect with a new coaching staff that can't have contact with the players?
#Ravens have signed RB Justin Forsett to a 1-year deal.

Kubiak bringing in still more ex-Texans. http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e316/Soizic22/a%20smilie/laugh-1.gif

Blake
04-04-2014, 07:03 PM
Owen Daniels on Texans: "I let go of where I was the last eight years whenever they let me go. I wasn’t good enough for them anymore."

OD, you werent good enough for Baltimore either. They just happen to be able to get fair value on you.

_King_
04-04-2014, 07:52 PM
Bring it on OD.

Trap_Star
04-04-2014, 08:01 PM
Don't be that bitter ex, OD.

CloakNNNdagger
04-04-2014, 08:03 PM
Signed for 1/3rd what he was making here, a bit butthurt...

Baltimore Ravens ‏@Ravens
OD was a great teammate/Texan, but what did he expect with a new coaching staff that can't have contact with the players?


Kubiak bringing in still more ex-Texans. http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e316/Soizic22/a%20smilie/laugh-1.gif

When headlines read Cody also signs.........I went right to thinking it was Shaun Cody........but there's still time.......:vincepalm:

PapaL
04-04-2014, 08:27 PM
What are the chances he's healthy when we play? 25%?

Corrosion
04-04-2014, 09:28 PM
That's just silly.

You want to know how to go 2-14, you get the coach.

How bout the QB. The coach wasn't the guy who was throwing pick 6's. That offense is the same one that started the previous season 11-1 winning back to back division titles before the QB's compounded injuries sapped him of what little physical ability he did have.

steelbtexan
04-05-2014, 01:12 AM
How bout the QB. The coach wasn't the guy who was throwing pick 6's. That offense is the same one that started the previous season 11-1 winning back to back division titles before the QB's compounded injuries sapped him of what little physical ability he did have.

This was the coaches handpicked 2-14 team from the GM to the waterboy.

He failed and lost his job because of it. I hope Gary/OD etc... do well in Baltimore.

Corrosion
04-05-2014, 01:44 AM
This was the coaches handpicked 2-14 team from the GM to the waterboy.

He failed and lost his job because of it. I hope Gary/OD etc... do well in Baltimore.

You say that as if you believe Gary was in charge of player acquisition ... roster building was / is Rick Smith's job. The coaches job is to coach the talent the GM acquires. The talent that Rick gave Gary to work with was obviously sub-par ... Proof of that is the purging of many of those players from the current roster.

If ya ask me , the wrong guy got fired.

TexansSeminole
04-05-2014, 02:40 AM
This kind of thing just shows you how much weight a HC has on signings and roster decisions. I loved OD but this wasn't a bad move by us, given his injury history. Can't wait to see what we do with these 11 picks.

thunderkyss
04-05-2014, 09:08 AM
Kubiak bringing in still more ex-Texans. http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e316/Soizic22/a%20smilie/laugh-1.gif

Can't believe a Super Bowl winning coach like John Harbaugh would respect Kubiak's opinion on players.

thunderkyss
04-05-2014, 09:11 AM
You say that as if you believe Gary was in charge of player acquisition ... roster building was / is Rick Smith's job. The coaches job is to coach the talent the GM acquires. The talent that Rick gave Gary to work with was obviously sub-par ... Proof of that is the purging of many of those players from the current roster.

If ya ask me , the wrong guy got fired.

But they're all getting picked up pretty quick. He can't have done too bad.

I remember a time when you were out of the NFL if you were cut by the Texans (well, maybe Detroit or Buffalo would give you a shot), now our back ups are getting picked up.

Corrosion
04-05-2014, 10:56 AM
But they're all getting picked up pretty quick. He can't have done too bad.

I remember a time when you were out of the NFL if you were cut by the Texans (well, maybe Detroit or Buffalo would give you a shot), now our back ups are getting picked up.

When Schaub looks as bad in Oakland as he did here .... people will understand the flaw was under center , not the system or the coaches.

He's had another year to recover , I predict he starts out fairly well and falls apart towards the middle and is a complete disaster by the end of the season.

gary
04-05-2014, 11:39 AM
I think this on Bob two times he has chosen the wrong GM and the wrong coach.

The Pencil Neck
04-05-2014, 01:50 PM
I think this on Bob two times he has chosen the wrong GM and the wrong coach.

I think what we see in the NFL is that it's all about getting lucky. You have to have the right coaching staff with the right GM and the right QB and then, things have to bounce your way and you're still screwed if you get hit by injuries to the wrong guys.

The Patriots got lucky when their all-pro QB got injured and he was replaced by Tom Brady. They got lucky with the tuck rule. And then they won the SB. The next year, that team didn't even make the playoffs.

That "great" dynastic team of Belichik and Brady still hasn't been able to win a SB in the past 9 seasons.

The fans of NY have wanted to ditch Tom Coughlin many times. Eli Manning is not nearly the QB his brother is... but... given a little luck at the right time, they've won more SBs together than Peyton Manning has been able to win.

It's not just that McNair hasn't chosen the right guys (and gotten lucky), it's that it's extremely difficult to do and there is no easy/right answer. If there was some obviously right way to do it, more teams would win the SB more often.

thunderkyss
04-05-2014, 02:34 PM
I think this on Bob two times he has chosen the wrong GM and the wrong coach.

8 years.

In 8 years, we've gone from a failed expansion team, to a back to back play off team, to a team that's got some issues.

I know if you believe the negative nancies on this board, we're 7 years & 33 starters away from competing for the division, but I don't think we're quite that bad. Could another coach/GM do a better job that Gary & Rick... I don't know. Cleveland, Jacksonville, and Carolina don't look much better, if any, than the Texans over that 8 year period.

I know we didn't win the Super Bowl, but the three time Super Bowl Champion New England Patriots didn't in that time span either. It's just not as easy as some would have you believe.

We took a shot & we had a window, things just didn't work out. Hopefully Bob has made the right moves to keep that window from going completely shut. We're missing 2 starters on offense (OD & Wade). Four starters on defense (Manning, Antonio, Mitchell, & Mays/Sharpton) .

This is not insurmountable.

I guarantee you if we somehow manage to get to 9-3, there will be people complaining about how weak our schedule is & how we don't have any quality wins.

infantrycak
04-05-2014, 03:14 PM
Cleveland, Jacksonville, and Carolina don't look much better, if any, than the Texans over that 8 year period.

Haven't won 2 playoff games 2006 - 2013:
Falcons
Bills
Panthers
Bengals
Browns
Cowboys
Lions
Jaguars
Chiefs
Dolphins
Vikings
Raiders
Rams
Buccaneers
Titans
Redskins

CloakNNNdagger
04-05-2014, 04:23 PM
Haven't won 2 playoff games 2006 - 2013:
Falcons
Bills
Panthers
Bengals
Browns
Cowboys
Lions
Jaguars
Chiefs
Dolphins
Vikings
Raiders
Rams
Buccaneers
Titans
Redskins

I know what you're trying to say, but I don't believe there is one name on that list that, given a choice of teams, we would truly want to identify with.

infantrycak
04-05-2014, 04:34 PM
I know what you're trying to say, but I don't believe there is one name on that list that, given a choice of teams, we would truly want to identify with.

I didn't say we shouldn't aim higher. The point is people often have unfounded perceptions and therefore expectations. Half the league has done worse during the Kubiak era. I'll bet you if a poll had been posted asking that question the results would have been a resounding no as in 90%.

CloakNNNdagger
04-05-2014, 04:45 PM
I didn't say we shouldn't aim higher. The point is people often have unfounded perceptions and therefore expectations. Half the league has done worse during the Kubiak era. I'll bet you if a poll had been posted asking that question the results would have been a resounding no as in 90%.

Won't disagree with that.

thunderkyss
04-05-2014, 05:17 PM
I know what you're trying to say, but I don't believe there is one name on that list that, given a choice of teams, we would truly want to identify with.

& we shouldn't. We should identify with the teams that have won more than 2 play off games since 2006.

thunderkyss
04-05-2014, 05:20 PM
Haven't won 2 playoff games 2006 - 2013:
Falcons
Bills On our schedule
Panthers
Bengals On our schedule
Browns On our schedule
Cowboys On our schedule
Lions
Jaguars On our schedule
Chiefs
Dolphins
Vikings
Raiders On our schedule
Rams
Buccaneers
Titans On our schedule
Redskins On our schedule


Ten games on our 2014 schedule will be against teams on that list. I'm not saying that we will, or even that we should win those games, just saying, we're not playing the best of the best in 2014.

steelbtexan
04-05-2014, 06:15 PM
I think what we see in the NFL is that it's all about getting lucky. You have to have the right coaching staff with the right GM and the right QB and then, things have to bounce your way and you're still screwed if you get hit by injuries to the wrong guys.

The Patriots got lucky when their all-pro QB got injured and he was replaced by Tom Brady. They got lucky with the tuck rule. And then they won the SB. The next year, that team didn't even make the playoffs.

That "great" dynastic team of Belichik and Brady still hasn't been able to win a SB in the past 9 seasons.

The fans of NY have wanted to ditch Tom Coughlin many times. Eli Manning is not nearly the QB his brother is... but... given a little luck at the right time, they've won more SBs together than Peyton Manning has been able to win.

It's not just that McNair hasn't chosen the right guys (and gotten lucky), it's that it's extremely difficult to do and there is no easy/right answer. If there was some obviously right way to do it, more teams would win the SB more often.

I may not know the right way to do it but I know the wrong way to do it, especially if Corrosion is correct and Rick Smith is/was in charge of talent procurement and signed off on the Schaub/Foster/Cushing contracts.

Tell me how anybody can say in 1 breath the McNair's put winning 1st and in the next justify Rick Smith keeping his job.

The Pencil Neck
04-05-2014, 06:22 PM
I may not know the right way to do it but I know the wrong way to do it, especially if Corrosion is correct and Rick Smith is/was in charge of talent procurement and signed off on the Schaub/Foster/Cushing contracts.

Tell me how anybody can say in 1 breath the McNair's put winning 1st and in the next justify Rick Smith keeping his job.

How do you know that Rick Smith is keeping his job?

drs23
04-05-2014, 06:25 PM
I think what we see in the NFL is that it's all about getting lucky. You have to have the right coaching staff with the right GM and the right QB and then, things have to bounce your way and you're still screwed if you get hit by injuries to the wrong guys.

The Patriots got lucky when their all-pro QB got injured and he was replaced by Tom Brady. They got lucky with the tuck rule. And then they won the SB. The next year, that team didn't even make the playoffs.

That "great" dynastic team of Belichik and Brady still hasn't been able to win a SB in the past 9 seasons.

The fans of NY have wanted to ditch Tom Coughlin many times. Eli Manning is not nearly the QB his brother is... but... given a little luck at the right time, they've won more SBs together than Peyton Manning has been able to win.

It's not just that McNair hasn't chosen the right guys (and gotten lucky), it's that it's extremely difficult to do and there is no easy/right answer. If there was some obviously right way to do it, more teams would win the SB more often.

:goodpost:

MSR, again.

infantrycak
04-05-2014, 06:39 PM
Tell me how anybody can say in 1 breath the McNair's put winning 1st and in the next justify Rick Smith keeping his job.

He disagrees with your assessment of Rick Smith.

To state what should be obvious, sometimes folks with the same goal differ on how best to get there.

steelbtexan
04-05-2014, 06:44 PM
He disagrees with your assessment of Rick Smith.

To state what should be obvious, sometimes folks with the same goal differ on how best to get there.

2-14 + 11 yrs of mediocrity at best.

Do you trust him/them to get it right?

thunderkyss
04-05-2014, 06:45 PM
I may not know the right way to do it but I know the wrong way to do it, especially if Corrosion is correct and Rick Smith is/was in charge of talent procurement and signed off on the Schaub/Foster/Cushing contracts.

Tell me how anybody can say in 1 breath the McNair's put winning 1st and in the next justify Rick Smith keeping his job.

I have & had no problem with those contracts; Schaub/Foster/Cushing... That was a big part of our Super Bowl winning team. Put Aj in there too. We're just lucky he's proven to be as durable as he has. OD as well. We could have & should have won the Super Bowl with those guys (& several others), it just didn't work out. Can't blame Rick Smith if those guys get hurt. Schaub looked completely healthy to me, I don't think his issues are LisFranc related. Foster's going to be fine & a top rusher in this league again. Cushing latest injury has absolutely nothing to do with his previous injury. It's not like a complication from his previous knee injury... he took a helmet to the knee. If the first never occurred, he'd still be out.

Time to reload, it happens.

steelbtexan
04-05-2014, 06:48 PM
How do you know that Rick Smith is keeping his job?

Do you really believe BoB/Cal are going to fire Rick Smith before next season?

Really? Or are you being argumentative?

infantrycak
04-05-2014, 06:54 PM
2-14 + 11 yrs of mediocrity at best.

Do you trust him/them to get it right?

We will never agree that winning the division and playoff wins are mediocrity and I don't have a choice in whether to trust them. Neither do you.

Do you really believe BoB/Cal are going to fire Rick Smith before next season?

Really? Or are you being argumentative?

While this might make sense to question for other teams I really can't see why you are incredulous about the Texans since that is precisely what happened for the last GM change.

The Pencil Neck
04-05-2014, 07:01 PM
Do you really believe BoB/Cal are going to fire Rick Smith before next season?

Really? Or are you being argumentative?

What did he do with Casserly?

steelbtexan
04-05-2014, 07:02 PM
We will never agree that winning the division and playoff wins are mediocrity and I don't have a choice in whether to trust them. Neither do you.



While this might make sense to question for other teams I really can't see why you are incredulous about the Texans since that is precisely what happened for the last GM change.

You're correct neither of us do. However calling out failure should be trumpeted. (Circa 2010) Now the Texans org is still sitting in a worse situation than the were in 2010. They're in 2006 territory. I know that we will never agree. But the Texans have been badly mismanaged, see 2-14.

So you're telling me that Rick Smith wont be the GM next season. Would you care to make a bet on that?

steelbtexan
04-05-2014, 07:04 PM
What did he do with Casserly?

Would you like to make a bet on the McNair's firing Rick Smith before next season? Easy $$$$

infantrycak
04-05-2014, 07:23 PM
So you're telling me that Rick Smith wont be the GM next season. Would you care to make a bet on that?

I'm sorry, where did you see a prediction? What I said is its a possibility and not the absurdity you portrayed it as.

thunderkyss
04-05-2014, 07:56 PM
But the Texans have been badly mismanaged, see 2-14.


What do you think about last year's 2-14 Chiefs, or this year's 3-13 Atlanta Falcons?

thunderkyss
04-05-2014, 07:58 PM
Would you like to make a bet on the McNair's firing Rick Smith before next season? Easy $$$$

He said how do we know.

We don't know. It's very possible that McNair will fire Smith after the draft, the same way he did Casserly.

CloakNNNdagger
04-05-2014, 08:28 PM
He said how do we know.

We don't know. It's very possible that McNair will fire Smith after the draft, the same way he did Casserly.

Wasn't Casserly "leaving" announced well before the the Draft?

thunderkyss
04-05-2014, 08:32 PM
Wasn't Casserly "leaving" announced well before the the Draft?

& Capers was fired after the season. I'm not saying he's following a script, just that we know McNair believes continuity through the draft is important.

steelbtexan
04-05-2014, 08:39 PM
I'm sorry, where did you see a prediction? What I said is its a possibility and not the absurdity you portrayed it as.

Just what I thought,

You think Rick Smith is going to be the GM next yr and just want to be argumentative.

infantrycak
04-05-2014, 08:39 PM
Wasn't Casserly "leaving" announced well before the the Draft?

Nope. Somewhat rumored but the announcement came on May 10th after the draft and was effective June 1st.

steelbtexan
04-05-2014, 08:46 PM
What do you think about last year's 2-14 Chiefs, or this year's 3-13 Atlanta Falcons?

The Chiefs fully changed regimes.

The Falcons kept their regime and are going to use FA/Draft to restock. They have already had a great FA haul and if they do well in the draft then the Falcons should be well positioned for yrs to come. The Falcons took their medicine for the Julio Jones trade last yr and will be better off for it in the long run. I predict IF the Falcons stay healthy they will challenge the 49ers/Seahawks/Saints for the NFC crown.

How did the Texans do in FA compared to the Falcons this yr.

steelbtexan
04-05-2014, 08:47 PM
Nope. Somewhat rumored but the announcement came on May 10th after the draft and was effective June 1st.

LOL

infantrycak
04-05-2014, 09:01 PM
LOL

What?

The Pencil Neck
04-05-2014, 09:23 PM
Would you like to make a bet on the McNair's firing Rick Smith before next season? Easy $$$$

I'm not a betting man. I don't claim to know the future. However, McNair let Casserly finish the draft before letting him go and he's stated that he doesn't want to fire coaches mid-season. He might consider a GM's season to end with the Draft. So there's a possibility that he'll fire Rick Smith after the draft.

However. I don't believe that McNair doesn't want to win. I think he does. I think he believes that it's better to be patient and to give people a chance to succeed than to swap guys out willy-nilly. And I agree with him.

I do know that you don't like McNair. You think he's cheap and just trying to maximize his profits. You think he doesn't want to spend the money necessary to make this team a winner. You think he's doing everything all wrong.

So there's not much more to discuss since I don't believe a single thing that you do.

thunderkyss
04-05-2014, 09:36 PM
The Chiefs fully changed regimes.

The Falcons kept their regime and are going to use FA/Draft to restock. They have already had a great FA haul and if they do well in the draft then the Falcons should be well positioned for yrs to come. The Falcons took their medicine for the Julio Jones trade last yr and will be better off for it in the long run. I predict IF the Falcons stay healthy they will challenge the 49ers/Seahawks/Saints for the NFC crown.

How did the Texans do in FA compared to the Falcons this yr.

We won't know until the end of the season.

You're saying this team has been mismanaged because we didn't bring in a bunch of FAs? Even if we had the money (which we could have even now if we need it) we wouldn't spend it. It hasn't been our M.O.

I'd be surprised if the Falcons win a play off game. They've only won one since 2005

steelbtexan
04-05-2014, 09:46 PM
I'm not a betting man. I don't claim to know the future. However, McNair let Casserly finish the draft before letting him go and he's stated that he doesn't want to fire coaches mid-season. He might consider a GM's season to end with the Draft. So there's a possibility that he'll fire Rick Smith after the draft.

However. I don't believe that McNair doesn't want to win. I think he does. I think he believes that it's better to be patient and to give people a chance to succeed than to swap guys out willy-nilly. And I agree with him.

I do know that you don't like McNair. You think he's cheap and just trying to maximize his profits. You think he doesn't want to spend the money necessary to make this team a winner. You think he's doing everything all wrong.

So there's not much more to discuss since I don't believe a single thing that you do.

Some of that, but not all of that.

I do think McNair is cheap when it comes to hiring asst coaches/trainers/scouts. This rears it's ugly head when injuries pop up and the team has little to no depth.

I don't think holding GM's/HC's responsible and their failures costing them their jobs is being wily nilly. Think about it this way, how much farther along would the Texans be if they had fired Rick/Gary in 2010. 2-14 means they couldn't have done worse. The NFL is a results oriented league and so far McNair's on the field product has left much to be desired.

The Texans marketing/PR dept is the best in the NFL. So I think it's quite clear what McNair's priorities are and no I don't hate the man I just see him for what he is. Sure he would like to win, all owners would like to win. Winning just isn't McNair's #1 priority.

A wise man (Texan Bill) once told me the Texans wouldn't ever be built by the model that I would like. McNair prefers the corporate model. That model is rarely successful.

steelbtexan
04-05-2014, 09:53 PM
We won't know until the end of the season.

You're saying this team has been mismanaged because we didn't bring in a bunch of FAs? Even if we had the money (which we could have even now if we need it) we wouldn't spend it. It hasn't been our M.O.

I'd be surprised if the Falcons win a play off game. They've only won one since 2005

Nope,

What I'm showing is the difference in how the Falcons are managed and the Texans. The Falcons were 3-13 and have a ton of $$$$ to spend in FA and have added major FA acquisitions and will have a high draft pick.

The Texans were up against the cap, couldn't make many moves and have to rely on a GM that missed on two 3rd rd picks in last yrs draft to fill 5/6 huge holes on the team.

The Pencil Neck
04-05-2014, 09:53 PM
Some of that, but not all of that.

I do think McNair is cheap when it comes to hiring asst coaches/trainers/scouts. This rears it's ugly head when injuries pop up and the team has little to no depth.

I don't think holding GM's/HC's responsible and their failures costing them their jobs is being wily nilly. Think about it this way, how much farther along would the Texans be if they had fired Rick/Gary in 2010. 2-14 means they couldn't have done worse. The NFL is a results oriented league and so far McNair's on the field product has left much to be desired.

The Texans marketing/PR dept is the best in the NFL. So I think it's quite clear what McNair's priorities are and no I don't hate the man I just see him for what he is. Sure he would like to win, all owners would like to win. Winning just isn't McNair's #1 priority.

A wise man (Texan Bill) once told me the Texans wouldn't ever be built by the model that I would like. McNair prfers the corporate model. That model is rarely successful.

Like I said, I basically don't agree with any of your assertions.

steelbtexan
04-05-2014, 09:59 PM
Like I said, I basically don't agree with any of your assertions.

What do you disagree with?

The holding GM/HC responsible/shouldn't have changed regimes after the 2010 season?

The talent on hand?

The corporate model?

The marketing dept?

thunderkyss
04-05-2014, 10:22 PM
Nope,

What I'm showing is the difference in how the Falcons are managed and the Texans. The Falcons were 3-13 and have a ton of $$$$ to spend in FA and have added major FA acquisitions and will have a high draft pick.

The Texans were up against the cap, couldn't make many moves and have to rely on a GM that missed on two 3rd rd picks in last yrs draft to fill 5/6 huge holes on the team.

eh... you just caught us at a bad time. We may go 9-7 next season & have a butt load of money to spend. The Falcons having money to spend in 2014 & going 3-13 had more to do with chance than anything else. They might go 4-12 next season & have no money.

So I guess by this conversation, you don't agree with making Jj Watt the highest paid defensive player in history?

The Pencil Neck
04-05-2014, 10:36 PM
What do you disagree with?

The holding GM/HC responsible/shouldn't have changed regimes after the 2010 season?

The talent on hand?

The corporate model?

The marketing dept?

I don't agree that he's cheap. We wouldn't have had one of the largest coaching staffs in the NFL for several years if he was so cheap. I think he's paid good money for coaches/trainers/scouts.

I don't agree that it was a bad thing that he held on to Rick/Gary after the 2010 season. That ended up with the most successful two years in our franchises history. There was nothing wrong with that decision no matter how you want to spin it. The 2-14 season is a totally separate thing to me. And yes, you could have ended up with MUCH worse because you could have ended up not having a single winning season in that three year span and you could definitely not have had a season where you started 11-1 and you could definitely not have had a season where you were 1 injury away from a damned good shot at the Super Bowl.

I don't care about the Texans' Marketing and PR department. Even if we have the greatest marketing department in the world (which I'm not so sure we do), that has no bearing at all on whether McNair wants to field a winner or not. Frankly, if McNair was the cheapskate you say he is, he wouldn't have the #1 marketing department because he wouldn't see the value in it.

You say you don't hate the man and yet you take every possibly opportunity to say unfounded things about him. Anything that goes wrong is an indication of what an a$$ he is... according to you. There are a lot of owners out there who are really crappy and really screw up their teams and I don't see McNair anywhere close to that group. I see him as a guy who's really trying to take a calm and balanced approach to managing his team and who's really trying to make it a winner.

That's just the way I see it and I know, like I said, that you don't agree with anything I just said.

paycheck71
04-05-2014, 11:15 PM
I think what we see in the NFL is that it's all about getting lucky. You have to have the right coaching staff with the right GM and the right QB and then, things have to bounce your way and you're still screwed if you get hit by injuries to the wrong guys.

The Patriots got lucky when their all-pro QB got injured and he was replaced by Tom Brady. They got lucky with the tuck rule. And then they won the SB. The next year, that team didn't even make the playoffs.

That "great" dynastic team of Belichik and Brady still hasn't been able to win a SB in the past 9 seasons.

The fans of NY have wanted to ditch Tom Coughlin many times. Eli Manning is not nearly the QB his brother is... but... given a little luck at the right time, they've won more SBs together than Peyton Manning has been able to win.

It's not just that McNair hasn't chosen the right guys (and gotten lucky), it's that it's extremely difficult to do and there is no easy/right answer. If there was some obviously right way to do it, more teams would win the SB more often.

It's not ALL about getting lucky, talent and ability still matter, but other than that distinction, I agree with every word.

Edit: It won't let me rep you, so MSR.

steelbtexan
04-06-2014, 12:05 AM
I don't agree that he's cheap. We wouldn't have had one of the largest coaching staffs in the NFL for several years if he was so cheap. I think he's paid good money for coaches/trainers/scouts.

I don't agree that it was a bad thing that he held on to Rick/Gary after the 2010 season. That ended up with the most successful two years in our franchises history. There was nothing wrong with that decision no matter how you want to spin it. The 2-14 season is a totally separate thing to me. And yes, you could have ended up with MUCH worse because you could have ended up not having a single winning season in that three year span and you could definitely not have had a season where you started 11-1 and you could definitely not have had a season where you were 1 injury away from a damned good shot at the Super Bowl.

I don't care about the Texans' Marketing and PR department. Even if we have the greatest marketing department in the world (which I'm not so sure we do), that has no bearing at all on whether McNair wants to field a winner or not. Frankly, if McNair was the cheapskate you say he is, he wouldn't have the #1 marketing department because he wouldn't see the value in it.

You say you don't hate the man and yet you take every possibly opportunity to say unfounded things about him. Anything that goes wrong is an indication of what an a$$ he is... according to you. There are a lot of owners out there who are really crappy and really screw up their teams and I don't see McNair anywhere close to that group. I see him as a guy who's really trying to take a calm and balanced approach to managing his team and who's really trying to make it a winner.

That's just the way I see it and I know, like I said, that you don't agree with anything I just said.

We just have different standards, 11-1 and beating the Bengals again (at home) doesn't mean crap to me. Getting embarrassed almost everytime the Texans play a national TV game means something to me. What did I say about the owner that is unfounded? To me the Texans on the field product has been an absolute failure. (To you it hasn't been. I respect that) The McNairs are the ones that hired a GM/HC with no experience and should take criticism for that.

That calm balanced approach that you like has gotten this franchise nowhere. It's time for a change in philosophy. I think hiring BOB was a good start, although I would like to have seen a HC with a winning NFL pedigree. It appears that BOB wont care how hard the kids try and will be more results oriented. Even with the albatross that is Rick Smith hanging around his neck.

So I guess that we will have to agree to disagree. However just because I criticize the McNair's doesn't mean I hate them. It just means I disagree with how they run their org. You don't disagree with them? How long do you think it will be before Bob McNair learns how to build a winning org. Is he on the right course? IYO, Marketing means $$$$ and you know that. It's the reason McNair spares no expense.

How many 2-14 seasons would it take for you to reconsider your position?

The Pencil Neck
04-06-2014, 01:06 AM
We just have different standards, 11-1 and beating the Bengals again (at home) doesn't mean crap to me. Getting embarrassed almost everytime the Texans play a national TV game means something to me. What did I say about the owner that is unfounded? To me the Texans on the field product has been an absolute failure. (To you it hasn't been. I respect that) The McNairs are the ones that hired a GM/HC with no experience and should take criticism for that.

That calm balanced approach that you like has gotten this franchise nowhere. It's time for a change in philosophy. I think hiring BOB was a good start, although I would like to have seen a HC with a winning NFL pedigree. It appears that BOB wont care how hard the kids try and will be more results oriented. Even with the albatross that is Rick Smith hanging around his neck.

So I guess that we will have to agree to disagree. However just because I criticize the McNair's doesn't mean I hate them. It just means I disagree with how they run their org. You don't disagree with them? How long do you think it will be before Bob McNair learns how to build a winning org. Is he on the right course? IYO, Marketing means $$$$ and you know that. It's the reason McNair spares no expense.

How many 2-14 seasons would it take for you to reconsider your position?

If having back-to-back seasons with double digit wins and at least 1 playoff victory is failure, then there is not a single franchise that can live up to your standard for more than a season or two. You have to consider the Patriots a terrible franchise because they haven't won a SB in almost a decade. The Ravens didn't make the playoffs last year and they had 12 years between SBs, fire Ozzie. Would you have given Cowher 14 years to win a SB?

How many years are you going to give OB to win a SB? 2? 3? Are you going to fire him after 3 years if all he has is 1 playoff appearance? And then how many years are you going to give the next guy? And then the guy after that? With your philosophy, you're going to be changing coaches every two to three years.

How many 2-14 seasons would it take you to reconsider YOUR position?

steelbtexan
04-06-2014, 02:10 AM
If having back-to-back seasons with double digit wins and at least 1 playoff victory is failure, then there is not a single franchise that can live up to your standard for more than a season or two. You have to consider the Patriots a terrible franchise because they haven't won a SB in almost a decade. The Ravens didn't make the playoffs last year and they had 12 years between SBs, fire Ozzie. Would you have given Cowher 14 years to win a SB?

How many years are you going to give OB to win a SB? 2? 3? Are you going to fire him after 3 years if all he has is 1 playoff appearance? And then how many years are you going to give the next guy? And then the guy after that? With your philosophy, you're going to be changing coaches every two to three years.

How many 2-14 seasons would it take you to reconsider YOUR position?

I want a solidly built team that is feared and in the running for a SB 8 out of 10 yrs. You know like the Steelers/Packers/Ravens etc.... and win 1-2 every decade. Not a team that wins a wildcard game and then gets embarrassed on national TV.

If OB does well I give him 4-5 yrs to build his program. But after that period if he has a 2010 6-10 season he should be fired, not given a 3 yr contract extention.

The Pencil Neck
04-06-2014, 02:34 AM
I want a solidly built team that is feared and in the running for a SB 8 out of 10 yrs. You know like the Steelers/Packers/Ravens etc.... and win 1-2 every decade. Not a team that wins a wildcard game and then gets embarrassed on national TV.

If OB does well I give him 4-5 yrs to build his program. But after that period if he has a 2010 6-10 season he should be fired, not given a 3 yr contract extention.

The Steelers/Packers/Ravens don't meet that criteria. They're not in the running for a SB 8 out of 10 years. Not seriously. As you've said, just getting to the playoffs a couple of years doesn't cut it.

The Ravens: Over the last 10 years, they've missed the playoffs 4 times and two of those seasons, they've had double digit losses. And if one playoff win in a season isn't a good thing, then three of those times they've made it to the playoffs in that period don't count as victories.

The Packers: Over the last 10 years, they've missed the playoffs 3 times and in two of those seasons, they've had double digit losses. They've lost 3 wildcard playoff games so, by your criteria, those seasons were failures. If you can't win a single playoff game then you're not seriously in the running to win the SB>

The Steelers: They've been out of the playoffs 4 times in the last 10 years. Although they've won 2 SBs in that period, they've also lost in the wildcard game twice.

Seriously. We all want a team that is consistently a winner. But to dismiss the two times we've been to the playoffs and the two games we've won is just silly. That's not you holding anything to a higher standard. That's you creating a double-standard.

You say you'll give OB 4-5 years to build his program.... why didn't you give that time to Kubiak? You were calling for his head after the second season if not before.

TheMatrix31
04-06-2014, 02:37 AM
Good for him. He'll tear it up there.

steelbtexan
04-06-2014, 02:54 AM
The Steelers/Packers/Ravens don't meet that criteria. They're not in the running for a SB 8 out of 10 years. Not seriously. As you've said, just getting to the playoffs a couple of years doesn't cut it.

The Ravens: Over the last 10 years, they've missed the playoffs 4 times and two of those seasons, they've had double digit losses. And if one playoff win in a season isn't a good thing, then three of those times they've made it to the playoffs in that period don't count as victories.

The Packers: Over the last 10 years, they've missed the playoffs 3 times and in two of those seasons, they've had double digit losses. They've lost 3 wildcard playoff games so, by your criteria, those seasons were failures. If you can't win a single playoff game then you're not seriously in the running to win the SB>

The Steelers: They've been out of the playoffs 4 times in the last 10 years. Although they've won 2 SBs in that period, they've also lost in the wildcard game twice.

Seriously. We all want a team that is consistently a winner. But to dismiss the two times we've been to the playoffs and the two games we've won is just silly. That's not you holding anything to a higher standard. That's you creating a double-standard.

You say you'll give OB 4-5 years to build his program.... why didn't you give that time to Kubiak? You were calling for his head after the second season if not before.

After the 2009 season that had the easiest schedule I've ever seen and the Texans only go 9-7. The Texans org starts trumpeting this as some kind of great accomplishment and 6-10 followed. I had my doubtsabout Gary/Rick then. After seeing Corrosion's post about Rick being in charge of player procurement, while I hope BOB can turn things around quickly, I've got my doubts anything will really change within the Texans org. I hope I'm wrong.

This says it all about where the Texans (We're on the right track) org stands as of today. With the 1st pick in the 2014 NFL player draft the Houston Texans select .....

We as fans that have supported this team both emotionally and financially from the beginning deserve better. Even though there's nothing we can do other than gripe about the current state of the team.

If the Texans org has done as good as you seem to think then why are the picking 1-1 and what would you do to fix what's wrong with the team if you had the power to fix them?

The Pencil Neck
04-06-2014, 04:01 AM
After the 2009 season that had the easiest schedule I've ever seen and the Texans only go 9-7. The Texans org starts trumpeting this as some kind of great accomplishment and 6-10 followed. I had my doubtsabout Gary/Rick then. After seeing Corrosion's post about Rick being in charge of player procurement, while I hope BOB can turn things around quickly, I've got my doubts anything will really change within the Texans org. I hope I'm wrong.

This says it all about where the Texans (We're on the right track) org stands as of today. With the 1st pick in the 2014 NFL player draft the Houston Texans select .....

We as fans that have supported this team both emotionally and financially from the beginning deserve better. Even though there's nothing we can do other than gripe about the current state of the team.

If the Texans org has done as good as you seem to think then why are the picking 1-1 and what would you do to fix what's wrong with the team if you had the power to fix them?

First off, griping doesn't accomplish anything.

And I've never said the Texans FO hasn't made mistakes and I've never said that changes shouldn't be or shouldn't have been made. Like you, I would have fired Smithiak after the 6-10 season. But I would have been wrong because I would have missed out on 2 successful seasons -- you and I have a difference of definition on what constitutes a successful season.

We are picking 1-1 for one main reason.

Kubiak believed that Schaub was still the pre-lisfranc Schaub. Smithiak hadn't chosen a successor because QBs frequently have a shelf-life into their late 30's and Smithiak thought they had more time to devote to a true successor and thought they only needed guys for spot duty. This was a mistake. They should have seen the signs at the end of the 2012 season but they didn't.

A secondary reason is the Wade Phillips Effect. It seems that Wade Phillips comes to a team and immediately turns its defense around. Then as time goes on, his defense get worse and worse. Important guys get injured. Some other guys get lazy. Whatever. The defense degrades. Last year, his defense was atrocious in the red zone and terrible at forcing turnovers.

Hopefully, RAC can turn that defense around. I don't have high hopes for that.

And OB has to solve the QB conundrum. Because he's got squat right now and he's probably still going to have squat after draft day.

This next year is probably going to be bad and I don't think there are any quick fixes in sight unless OB's able to work magic on one of these QBs. And this next year might not be the end of it. We might be bad for 2-4 years and if so, we're going to be looking back fondly at those double-digit win seasons.

thunderkyss
04-06-2014, 10:26 AM
I want a solidly built team that is feared and in the running for a SB 8 out of 10 yrs. You know like the Steelers/Packers/Ravens etc.... and win 1-2 every decade. Not a team that wins a wildcard game and then gets embarrassed on national TV.


Agreed. So do I. But those teams have been around since the beginning. They weren't always so "feared" I remember when Green Bay were chumps, damn near like the Bucs. The Steelers & the Browns/Ravens have had their droughts as well.

To me, it's like everything else. The new kid on the block is rarely the best, or even in that tier. It generally takes time to consistently be competitive when entering such a mature market.

I want the Texans to be thought of with the same reverence as the Steelers, Packers, Patriots.... but it's not going to happen overnight unless we get an Elway, or a Peyton. Drafting Matthew Stafford at #1 overall isn't the same thing (not that you said it was).

It's going to take us a while.... & we're close right now. Gary did a good job. Now we need O'Brien to take us to the next level, & the guy after him to the level after that.

Haven't won 2 playoff games 2006 - 2013:
Falcons
Bills
Panthers
Bengals
Browns
Cowboys
Lions
Jaguars
Chiefs
Dolphins
Vikings
Raiders
Rams
Buccaneers
Titans
Redskins

Four years from now, we're going to be better than these teams, or worse. Right now, I think we're better. Kubiak/Smith did that.

steelbtexan
04-06-2014, 02:05 PM
First off, griping doesn't accomplish anything.

And I've never said the Texans FO hasn't made mistakes and I've never said that changes shouldn't be or shouldn't have been made. Like you, I would have fired Smithiak after the 6-10 season. But I would have been wrong because I would have missed out on 2 successful seasons -- you and I have a difference of definition on what constitutes a successful season.

We are picking 1-1 for one main reason.

Kubiak believed that Schaub was still the pre-lisfranc Schaub. Smithiak hadn't chosen a successor because QBs frequently have a shelf-life into their late 30's and Smithiak thought they had more time to devote to a true successor and thought they only needed guys for spot duty. This was a mistake. They should have seen the signs at the end of the 2012 season but they didn't.

A secondary reason is the Wade Phillips Effect. It seems that Wade Phillips comes to a team and immediately turns its defense around. Then as time goes on, his defense get worse and worse. Important guys get injured. Some other guys get lazy. Whatever. The defense degrades. Last year, his defense was atrocious in the red zone and terrible at forcing turnovers.

Hopefully, RAC can turn that defense around. I don't have high hopes for that.

And OB has to solve the QB conundrum. Because he's got squat right now and he's probably still going to have squat after draft day.

This next year is probably going to be bad and I don't think there are any quick fixes in sight unless OB's able to work magic on one of these QBs. And this next year might not be the end of it. We might be bad for 2-4 years and if so, we're going to be looking back fondly at those double-digit win seasons.

1. This is McNair's team and although griping may not help it's about all we as fans can do. Except not eat/drink/buy merchandise while at the games cutting into the Texans profits. Canceling season season tickets ont work because McNair will get to double dip on PSL $$$$ and there is a waiting list.

2. While I agree with you on the Schaub thingy, Rick Smith should've seen this coming. CND told us it was coming. Instead of seeing it coming Smith decided that it would be a great idea to extend Schaub putting the team further behind the salary cap 8 ball. So this isn't MMQBing. Tell me how did Smith manage to keep his job? It was probably a combination of throwing Gary under the bus and kissing Cal McNair's butt.

3. With a 1 foot Schaub and a rookie (Keenum0 this wasn't the Wade Phillips effect. This was a defense that spent too much time on the field. Also the injuries with lack of depth and bad FA signing (Reed) were major contributors to the defense demise. Who contributed to these problems? Could Rick Smith have played a large prt in these issues? According to Corrosion Smith was in charge of player procurement.

4. Agree with you on the RAC and QB conundrum points. But I do think if BOB hits on what he does best (Developing QB's) the Texans should be better for it in 3-4 yrs. I do worry about how qualified BOB is, only because he's another 1st time NFL HC and I've been stained by the Rick/Gary yrs.

Bottom line for me is it's time for the McNair's to stop giving lip service about being a winner (This has been going on for the last 5 yrs) and put a proven winning product on the field. Bob McNair needs to quit listening to other cronie owners (your close to a championship) (We''re on the right track) and put a team on the field that Houston can be proud of. Instead of the crap we say last yr. It must be nice to be able to raise ticket prices every yr except the yrs you suck so bad that you end up at 1-1.

steelbtexan
04-06-2014, 02:08 PM
Agreed. So do I. But those teams have been around since the beginning. They weren't always so "feared" I remember when Green Bay were chumps, damn near like the Bucs. The Steelers & the Browns/Ravens have had their droughts as well.

To me, it's like everything else. The new kid on the block is rarely the best, or even in that tier. It generally takes time to consistently be competitive when entering such a mature market.

I want the Texans to be thought of with the same reverence as the Steelers, Packers, Patriots.... but it's not going to happen overnight unless we get an Elway, or a Peyton. Drafting Matthew Stafford at #1 overall isn't the same thing (not that you said it was).

It's going to take us a while.... & we're close right now. Gary did a good job. Now we need O'Brien to take us to the next level, & the guy after him to the level after that.



Four years from now, we're going to be better than these teams, or worse. Right now, I think we're better. Kubiak/Smith did that.

I hope your right

I would beg to differ on the Rick/Gary contributions part though. Hopefully Rick is gone after next yr and McNair hits on BOB.

infantrycak
04-06-2014, 02:20 PM
3. With a 1 foot Schaub and a rookie (Keenum0 this wasn't the Wade Phillips effect. This was a defense that spent too much time on the field.

As an fyi - the Texans' offense was 8th in the league in TOP. That was not a cause. Cushing going down would be the biggest non-Wade cause for the decline IMO.

The Pencil Neck
04-06-2014, 02:21 PM
2. While I agree with you on the Schaub thingy, Rick Smith should've seen this coming. CND told us it was coming. Instead of seeing it coming Smith decided that it would be a great idea to extend Schaub putting the team further behind the salary cap 8 ball. So this isn't MMQBing. Tell me how did Smith manage to keep his job? It was probably a combination of throwing Gary under the bus and kissing Cal McNair's butt.


I don't disagree with any of that. Either Rick Smith OR Kubiak (but probably both) should have seen the signs and they should have prepared for that eventuality better. One problem is that there wasn't really any great QBs in last year's draft, either, although maybe they should have drafted Glennon or Nassib.

I understand how they made the mistake but they shouldn't have made it. And that's why I've got no problem with Kubiak having been fired and I've got no problem if Rick Smith is fired after the draft.


4. Agree with you on the RAC and QB conundrum points. But I do think if BOB hits on what he does best (Developing QB's) the Texans should be better for it in 3-4 yrs. I do worry about how qualified BOB is, only because he's another 1st time NFL HC and I've been stained by the Rick/Gary yrs.


Again, I don't disagree with any of that. Smithiak got too complacent on the QB front and now we're left with OB not having much to work with. Since this draft might not have The Guy, we might have to take another hit this two years for OB to find and develop a guy.

I'm hoping OB steps up. I really liked the hire but it is a risky one.


Bottom line for me is it's time for the McNair's to stop giving lip service about being a winner (This has been going on for the last 5 yrs) and put a proven winning product on the field. Bob McNair needs to quit listening to other cronie owners (your close to a championship) (We''re on the right track) and put a team on the field that Houston can be proud of. Instead of the crap we say last yr. It must be nice to be able to raise ticket prices every yr except the yrs you suck so bad that you end up at 1-1.

And this is where we differ. Just because we had a horrible year last year doesn't diminish the fact that we did have two good years. I don't like painting the entire era black because it ended in such a shambles.

steelbtexan
04-06-2014, 02:47 PM
I just want more than 2 slightly above avg yrs in an 11 yr span.

Hopefully BOB is the guy to improve on this. It could happen if IMHO

1.McNair lets BOB pick his team with no restrictions.

2. They lock Smith in the closet on draft day. LOL

thunderkyss
04-06-2014, 03:06 PM
2. While I agree with you on the Schaub thingy, Rick Smith should've seen this coming. CND told us it was coming. Instead of seeing it coming Smith decided that it would be a great idea to extend Schaub putting the team further behind the salary cap 8 ball. So this isn't MMQBing. Tell me how did Smith manage to keep his job? It was probably a combination of throwing Gary under the bus and kissing Cal McNair's butt.



The Texans have not done one thing to lead us to believe they believe Schaub's performance was in any way related to his foot injury. Not one word about it, not a, "He just needs to get healthy." or "He's working through a lot of pain." nothing.

Instead, they say he needs to get a fresh start.

I don't believe this is a situation where they want to "not disclose" a medical issue either. He passes a physical, he should be good to go.

Not to discredit CnD at all, I respect his insight & appreciate that he shares his opinion with us. But he did not look at the xRays, or MRIs. He doesn't know how severe the injury was. He doesn't know (unless he read a report that he hasn't told us about) exactly what was done to put Schaub back together again.

Schaub looked great, in spurts. I pulled the Schaub bandwagon out of the garage after that comeback win against San Diego. Hooked it up to the truck after that OT victory against Tennessee. Pushed it into the ditch after that SanFrancisco fiasco... Then he looked like a baaaaaad sumbtch against Seattle, until... well, y'know.

& if it is something medical, you'd think he would be able to manage it. Walk around with a special shoe all week. Stay off of it three out of 5 days. Shoot it up before the game, something.

& it's not like he was going to run for a first down, or had the strongest arm to begin with.


Don't get me wrong, 2013 was all his fault.

steelbtexan
04-06-2014, 03:19 PM
The Texans have not done one thing to lead us to believe they believe Schaub's performance was in any way related to his foot injury. Not one word about it, not a, "He just needs to get healthy." or "He's working through a lot of pain." nothing.

Instead, they say he needs to get a fresh start.

I don't believe this is a situation where they want to "not disclose" a medical issue either. He passes a physical, he should be good to go.

Not to discredit CnD at all, I respect his insight & appreciate that he shares his opinion with us. But he did not look at the xRays, or MRIs. He doesn't know how severe the injury was. He doesn't know (unless he read a report that he hasn't told us about) exactly what was done to put Schaub back together again.

Schaub looked great, in spurts. I pulled the Schaub bandwagon out of the garage after that comeback win against San Diego. Hooked it up to the truck after that OT victory against Tennessee. Pushed it into the ditch after that SanFrancisco fiasco... Then he looked like a baaaaaad sumbtch against Seattle, until... well, y'know.

& if it is something medical, you'd think he would be able to manage it. Walk around with a special shoe all week. Stay off of it three out of 5 days. Shoot it up before the game, something.

& it's not like he was going to run for a first down, or had the strongest arm to begin with.


Don't get me wrong, 2013 was all his fault.

I don't trust the Texans medical staff at all. (Boselli/DDW)

2013 wasn't all Schaub's fault. Injuries/team Dr's not allowing Wade Smith and Newton to get fully healthy like Seattle did with their OL injuries. Injuries with on defense with little depth etc... But Schaub did play a large part in 2-14.

thunderkyss
04-06-2014, 03:25 PM
I just want more than 2 slightly above avg yrs in an 11 yr span.

Hopefully BOB is the guy to improve on this. It could happen if IMHO

1.McNair lets BOB pick his team with no restrictions.

2. They lock Smith in the closet on draft day. LOL

I've got no doubt that it'll get better than 2 above avg seasons in an 11 year span. Gary & Rick already left us in a better position than when they got here. The first 4 years got us squat in the above avg years column. Somewhat to be expected, but not acceptable.

But how can you give OB 3-4 years just to get his players?

8 years from now, an 11 year history would include Kubiak's above average 2011 & 2012. Throw out 2013, give OB three years to build, and he's got to be above average in 2017, or he's getting the axe?

Kubiak's been here 8 years. 3 losing seasons, 3 winning seasons, 2 8-8 seasons. Not great, but we were an expansion team & look back at that list of 16 teams infantrycak made.

OB doesn't have that expansion team thing to worry about. We're past that. He doesn't have that rookie GM thing to worry about. We're past that. He doesn't have that "Owner doesn't know his elbow from his @sshole" thing to worry about.

I think he's got 16 players who are going to do everything they can to make sure we have a winning season in 2014.

steelbtexan
04-06-2014, 03:40 PM
I've got no doubt that it'll get better than 2 above avg seasons in an 11 year span. Gary & Rick already left us in a better position than when they got here. The first 4 years got us squat in the above avg years column. Somewhat to be expected, but not acceptable.

But how can you give OB 3-4 years just to get his players?

8 years from now, an 11 year history would include Kubiak's above average 2011 & 2012. Throw out 2013, give OB three years to build, and he's got to be above average in 2017, or he's getting the axe?

Kubiak's been here 8 years. 3 losing seasons, 3 winning seasons, 2 8-8 seasons. Not great, but we were an expansion team & look back at that list of 16 teams infantrycak made.

OB doesn't have that expansion team thing to worry about. We're past that. He doesn't have that rookie GM thing to worry about. We're past that. He doesn't have that "Owner doesn't know his elbow from his @sshole" thing to worry about.

I think he's got 16 players who are going to do everything they can to make sure we have a winning season in 2014.

At 2-14 the Texans my not be an expansion team but they're not far from being one. Look at all the holes that need to be filled and very little depth. (Not the least of which is QB) Rick Smith played a large hand in this. McNair's comments like (We're on the right track/don't want to do anything too traumatic) sure doesn't evoke confidence for me.

ObsiWan
04-06-2014, 07:51 PM
I don't trust the Texans medical staff at all. (Boselli/DDW)

2013 wasn't all Schaub's fault. Injuries/team Dr's not allowing Wade Smith and Newton to get fully healthy like Seattle did with their OL injuries. Injuries with on defense with little depth etc... But Schaub did play a large part in 2-14.

This begs the question, who were those guys (the Texans med staff) and are THEY still here??

You would think that an organization that has major ties to one of the largest hospital systems in the country, Methodist, and whose success ultimately depends on the health and strength of its primary employees (the players), would be better (MUCH f#@king better) at diagnosing sports injuries and treating them properly.

and yet...

Edit:
Oh and I think O.D. will have a fine year up in Baltimore.
:)

Corrosion
04-06-2014, 09:25 PM
This begs the question, who were those guys (the Texans med staff) and are THEY still here??

You would think that an organization that has major ties to one of the largest hospital systems in the country, Methodist, and whose success ultimately depends on the health and strength of its primary employees (the players), would be better (MUCH f#@king better) at diagnosing sports injuries and treating them properly.

and yet...

Edit:
Oh and I think O.D. will have a fine year up in Baltimore.
:)

Yeah , we can point to probably half a dozen or more instances where these Dr's screwed the pooch ... Boselli , Joppru , D.Davis errr Williams , Ed Reed .... who am I leaving out ?!


They have a piss poor track record ....

steelbtexan
04-06-2014, 09:54 PM
This begs the question, who were those guys (the Texans med staff) and are THEY still here??

You would think that an organization that has major ties to one of the largest hospital systems in the country, Methodist, and whose success ultimately depends on the health and strength of its primary employees (the players), would be better (MUCH f#@king better) at diagnosing sports injuries and treating them properly.

and yet...

Edit:
Oh and I think O.D. will have a fine year up in Baltimore.
:)

The questios I have is how much pressure do/did the McNairs/Charlie-Dom/Rick-Gary put on the DR's to get the assets (Players) on the field as soon as possible, sometimes to the detriment of the long term future of the Texans org and the players careers?

CloakNNNdagger
04-07-2014, 12:39 PM
...
Jason La Canfora ‏@JasonLaCanfora Apr 4

Ravens got Owen Daniels at a bargain price - $1M base salary with another $1M available in incentives. No guarantees

PapaL
04-07-2014, 01:28 PM
...

Yup, that'll show us! Wanting him to take a cut. Pffft!

handswarmer
04-07-2014, 01:39 PM
I can understand the hate on Schaub- the guy isn't that good without playmakers around him and he gets hurt a lot.

But the hate on Kubiak to me seems abit over the top...


OD, Fossett, etc are all players brought n to help teach the Kub's system because OTA's are getting smaller and smaller each year. This is all about getting the Ravens up to speed on his playbook.

Rumors around here are that a Texans b/up Qb is next on the radar....

The Pencil Neck
04-07-2014, 01:50 PM
I can understand the hate on Schaub- the guy isn't that good without playmakers around him and he gets hurt a lot.

But the hate on Kubiak to me seems abit over the top...


OD, Fossett, etc are all players brought n to help teach the Kub's system because OTA's are getting smaller and smaller each year. This is all about getting the Ravens up to speed on his playbook.

Rumors around here are that a Texans b/up Qb is next on the radar....

Oh? Are you guys going to make a trade for TJ or Case or do you think you'll just wait for one of them to be cut at the end of TC? I don't expect us to keep both of them.

steelbtexan
04-07-2014, 02:15 PM
I can understand the hate on Schaub- the guy isn't that good without playmakers around him and he gets hurt a lot.

But the hate on Kubiak to me seems abit over the top...


OD, Fossett, etc are all players brought n to help teach the Kub's system because OTA's are getting smaller and smaller each year. This is all about getting the Ravens up to speed on his playbook.

Rumors around here are that a Texans b/up Qb is next on the radar....

Not hate, just disappointment that the last 4 yrs were wasted and the team has the same exact record as when he became HC.

Playoffs
04-07-2014, 02:48 PM
Brian T. Smith ‏@ChronBrianSmith
Owen Daniels on suddenly leaving #Texans: "Bam is right." Added: "It totally hurts."

thunderkyss
04-07-2014, 04:23 PM
But the hate on Kubiak to me seems abit over the top...



Thank you so much for telling us how to feel.

Texan_Bill
04-07-2014, 11:19 PM
"I let go of where I was the last eight years whenever they let me go. I wasn’t good enough for them anymore."

Well OD, thanks for being honest!! At least you admit that you've been injury prone and if nothing, the Smithiak regime got one thing right.......... Other, good tight ends, that may or may not be more durable.

OD,
No bad will on you, it's time your injured ass moved on! It's best for both parties and the sooner you come to grips with that, the better. I hope you have a good 10 games this season!

Speedy
04-07-2014, 11:34 PM
But Schaub did play a large part in 2-14.

Yeah, he got the 2.

PapaL
04-08-2014, 08:22 AM
Yeah, he got the 2.

And 8 of the 14

BullNation4Life
04-08-2014, 08:58 AM
I can understand the hate on Schaub- the guy isn't that good without playmakers around him and he gets hurt a lot.

But the hate on Kubiak to me seems abit over the top...


OD, Fossett, etc are all players brought n to help teach the Kub's system because OTA's are getting smaller and smaller each year. This is all about getting the Ravens up to speed on his playbook.

Rumors around here are that a Texans b/up Qb is next on the radar....

until you have walked a mile, or 8 in our case, in our shoes, you wouldn't understand...

Someone once said the definition of insanity is doing the same task over and over and over and expecting different results. Kubiak danced all on, around and finally over that fine line for 8 years. don't worry, you will see soon enough when you run Rice left, then run Rice right, then run Rice up the middle, then punt....

it was more frustration than hate...

infantrycak
04-08-2014, 10:05 AM
And 8 of the 14

6 - Schaub started 8 games.

PapaL
04-08-2014, 11:24 AM
6 - Schaub started 8 games.

He attempted 37 and 34 passes in the other two games, he shares credit for those losses as well. :slapfight:

infantrycak
04-08-2014, 11:32 AM
He attempted 37 and 34 passes in the other two games, he shares credit for those losses as well. :slapfight:

The Texans outscored their opponents while he was in the game in both instances. So no.

PapaL
04-08-2014, 12:04 PM
The Texans outscored their opponents while he was in the game in both instances. So no.

Maybe we should throw him a parade and offer orange slices. Loss is a loss.

thunderkyss
04-08-2014, 01:04 PM
nvm

handswarmer
04-09-2014, 11:02 AM
until you have walked a mile, or 8 in our case, in our shoes, you wouldn't understand...

Someone once said the definition of insanity is doing the same task over and over and over and expecting different results. Kubiak danced all on, around and finally over that fine line for 8 years. don't worry, you will see soon enough when you run Rice left, then run Rice right, then run Rice up the middle, then punt....

it was more frustration than hate...

That's the Brian Billick offense- been there, done that- got the T-shirt.

handswarmer
04-09-2014, 11:04 AM
Oh? Are you guys going to make a trade for TJ or Case or do you think you'll just wait for one of them to be cut at the end of TC? I don't expect us to keep both of them.

I expect them to wait for a cut- Ozzie values draft picks too much.

handswarmer
04-09-2014, 11:04 AM
Thank you so much for telling us how to feel.

That's an observation- not a directive.

infantrycak
04-09-2014, 11:21 AM
That's the Brian Billick offense- been there, done that- got the T-shirt.

You should expect to receive some gross exaggerations about Kubiak around here. Even if the Texans passed 70% of the time on 3rd and 4 you'll hear from some that we "always" ran a draw play.

santo
04-09-2014, 11:21 AM
handswarmer, the best thing you can hope for is that Kubiak becomes like Capers and helps Harbaugh to another championship.

Hope he does well for y'all.

thunderkyss
04-09-2014, 02:47 PM
handswarmer, the best thing you can hope for is that Kubiak becomes like Capers and helps Harbaugh to another championship.

Hope he does well for y'all.

I think Baltimore became a top ten offensive team when they got Kubiak. He's going to make it easy for Flacco to get the most out of that laser rocket arm.

Make us even more mad we didn't invest more in younger QBs sooner than we did.

BullNation4Life
04-10-2014, 10:26 AM
You should expect to receive some gross exaggerations about Kubiak around here. Even if the Texans passed 70% of the time on 3rd and 4 you'll hear from some that we "always" ran a draw play.

nope, Kubiak saved that play for 3rd and 10...That and the infamous 3 yard under on 3 and 6....:kitten:

handswarmer
04-15-2014, 08:15 AM
handswarmer, the best thing you can hope for is that Kubiak becomes like Capers and helps Harbaugh to another championship.

Hope he does well for y'all.
That is the plan.

I think Baltimore became a top ten offensive team when they got Kubiak. He's going to make it easy for Flacco to get the most out of that laser rocket arm.

Make us even more mad we didn't invest more in younger QBs sooner than we did.

The one thing we have lacked is talent at the WR position and a poor Offensive line. With the Zone Blocking scheme being fully implemented, I expect the pass pro and run blocking to be better this year. Also a full year of Monroe at LT, Osemele returns from injury and an upgrade at center should do the trick.

IDEXAN
04-15-2014, 08:32 AM
With a QB like Flacco instead of Schaub, I really don't think for a moment that Kubiak is gonna run the same offense in Baltimore that he ran in Houston.

PapaL
04-15-2014, 08:50 AM
With a QB like Flacco instead of Schaub, I really don't think for a moment that Kubiak is gonna run the same offense in Baltimore that he ran in Houston.

He ran the same offense in Denver with QBs similar to Flacco. Don't see why that would change now.

IDEXAN
04-15-2014, 05:17 PM
He ran the same offense in Denver with QBs similar to Flacco. Don't see why that would change now.
Kubiak backed up John Elway not coach him, but that's how far back you'd have to go to find a QB that Kubiak coached or played with to find one with the kind of bazooka that Flacco has.

The Pencil Neck
04-15-2014, 05:18 PM
Kubiak backed up John Elway not coach him, but that's how far back you'd have to go to find a QB that Kubiak coached or played with to find one with the kind of bazooka that Flacco has.

Kubiak also coached him and was his OC.

infantrycak
04-15-2014, 05:32 PM
Kubiak also coached him and was his OC.

Including the SB wins.

I don't recall Plummer or Griese having noodle arms either.

Double Barrel
04-15-2014, 05:47 PM
Kubiak also coached him and was his OC.

Including the SB wins.

I don't recall Plummer or Griese having noodle arms either.

In addition, according to Mike Shanahan, Kubiak was calling plays during those back-to-back Super Bowl championship seasons.

I think Kubiak is going to do great in Baltimore.

IDEXAN
04-15-2014, 10:47 PM
Including the SB wins.

I don't recall Plummer or Griese having noodle arms either.
And neither one of them had an arm in the same league with Elway and Flacco. But with Flaccos vertical game, it's unlikely Kubiak runs the WCO offense with him that he used in Houston.

infantrycak
04-15-2014, 11:15 PM
And neither one of them had an arm in the same league with Elway and Flacco. But with Flaccos vertical game, it's unlikely Kubiak runs the WCO offense with him that he used in Houston.

Ozzie thinks you're four bunny funny - :bunpan::bunpan::bunpan::bunpan:

handswarmer
04-16-2014, 03:16 PM
And neither one of them had an arm in the same league with Elway and Flacco. But with Flaccos vertical game, it's unlikely Kubiak runs the WCO offense with him that he used in Houston.

So after the raven hire Juan Castillo, guru of the ZBS, and then an OC who runs the Zone Blocking Scheme, they will run something different?

thunderkyss
04-16-2014, 05:33 PM
So after the raven hire Juan Castillo, guru of the ZBS, and then an OC who runs the Zone Blocking Scheme, they will run something different?

That's code for "I hate Matt Schaub"

Even though Matt Schaub completed as many passes of 20+ yards in the league as anyone, they're thinking Kubiak's offense suffered because of Schaub.

When in truth, the offense only really struggled last year... it was because of Schaub though.

We ran a lot more boots, I think, with Carr & Sage. Even scored a couple of TDs with the QB rushing off the naked action. We also ran a lot more boots with Schaub prior to 2011. Most likely because of his foot but he also used to fade back on those boots instead of coming back to the LOS for whatever reason.

Anyway.... Flacco may not be a "mobile" QB, but he should be able to get the job done & your offense will most likely look like ours did in 2009~2011

handswarmer
04-18-2014, 09:32 AM
That's code for "I hate Matt Schaub"

Even though Matt Schaub completed as many passes of 20+ yards in the league as anyone, they're thinking Kubiak's offense suffered because of Schaub.

When in truth, the offense only really struggled last year... it was because of Schaub though.

We ran a lot more boots, I think, with Carr & Sage. Even scored a couple of TDs with the QB rushing off the naked action. We also ran a lot more boots with Schaub prior to 2011. Most likely because of his foot but he also used to fade back on those boots instead of coming back to the LOS for whatever reason.

Anyway.... Flacco may not be a "mobile" QB, but he should be able to get the job done & your offense will most likely look like ours did in 2009~2011

That's what I was thinking...Schaub's foot was more of a hinderance than most people thought...the "passes of 20+ yds" stat is a bit of a misnomer also= how much of that is YAC?

The old offense was a variation of Air Coryell, installed by Cam Cameron- two backs, 2 WR's, 1 TE- simple patterns etc....Greg Cosell once said "it looks like an offense out of the 60's"...

I am excited to see what they can do...

BigBull17
04-18-2014, 12:27 PM
And neither one of them had an arm in the same league with Elway and Flacco. But with Flaccos vertical game, it's unlikely Kubiak runs the WCO offense with him that he used in Houston.

I'm fairly certain that we ran a ton of PA with deep patterns with Schaub. It's an offense that can produce a ton of yards and nice open looks with a productive run game.

IDEXAN
04-18-2014, 12:49 PM
I'm fairly certain that we ran a ton of PA with deep patterns with Schaub. It's an offense that can produce a ton of yards and nice open looks with a productive run game.
Sure they threw the ball down field some, but if I'm not mistaken Kubiak's WCO emphasized more of an intermediate passing game with boots and passes in the flat, a more horizontal area that featured the tailback and TEs more than a lot of the deeper patters like posts and fly routes that would take the most advantage of a QB with a big gun, and Flacco does indeed have a big-time arm that somebody like Schaub could only dream about.

The Pencil Neck
04-18-2014, 01:04 PM
Sure they threw the ball down field some, but if I'm not mistaken Kubiak's WCO emphasized more of an intermediate passing game with boots and passes in the flat, a more horizontal area that featured the tailback and TEs more than a lot of the deeper patters like posts and fly routes that would take the most advantage of a QB with a big gun, and Flacco does indeed have a big-time arm that somebody like Schaub could only dream about.

Actually, it was SCHAUB that emphasized that.

Kubiak's offense normally had route combinations that worked short/intermediate/long and it was up to the QB to read which one was open and get it to the right guy. He didn't start dialing up long passes when Keenum was in there... Keenum had the same choice of routes, he just chose to go for the deep guy. And Kubiak didn't stop dialing up the long routes for Schaub; Schaub STOPPED going to the intermediate and long routes and started looking for the short routes more and more... that's why I thought Schaub looked broken. When he stopped challenging teams deep, they started sitting on those short routes. His job was to make them pay deep (because those routes were open) and he didn't do it.

To be able to get to those long routes, you need to have time for them to develop and you've also got to trust your arm. Keenum's problem was that he didn't read the blitzes and he didn't shift the protections or account for the unblocked rushers. So he started off being able to hit the deep balls but then as teams changed what they were doing, he started getting sacked more and more.

Flacco will have plenty of opportunities to stretch the field. And if Ray Rice can acclimate and the running game/boot game get going, Flacco's going to have some time to sit back and really hum some long ones.

My only thing about Flacco is his decision making. He could do really well in this offense but he's got to study and he's got to read the defense.

BigBull17
04-18-2014, 01:07 PM
Sure they threw the ball down field some, but if I'm not mistaken Kubiak's WCO emphasized more of an intermediate passing game with boots and passes in the flat, a more horizontal area that featured the tailback and TEs more than a lot of the deeper patters like posts and fly routes that would take the most advantage of a QB with a big gun, and Flacco does indeed have a big-time arm that somebody like Schaub could only dream about.

The offense seems to run on a principle of one deep, one intermediate, and then shallow routes to both sides. They like to boot opposite PA and take advantage of over running the fake. I think Gary reduced the O with Schaub, so he's not going to change much.

thunderkyss
04-18-2014, 01:43 PM
The old offense was a variation of Air Coryell, installed by Cam Cameron- two backs, 2 WR's, 1 TE- simple patterns etc....Greg Cosell once said "it looks like an offense out of the 60's"...


Right..... old argument I don't care to rehash. But those were with the ball traveling over 20 yards. He didn't throw as many as others, but he completed just as much if not more.