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Playoffs
03-28-2014, 11:04 AM
Tania Ganguli ‏@taniaganguli
Texans safety Danieal Manning won't be a cap casualty. According to a source he has agreed to a restructure/pay cut.

With Manning's pay cut, look for the #Texans interest in safety Chris Clemons to pick up. Brian Gaine drafted him in Miami.

gwallaia
03-28-2014, 11:13 AM
Manning is now one of my favorite Texans.

_King_
03-28-2014, 11:14 AM
LOL...

infantrycak
03-28-2014, 11:24 AM
Tania - other than a drafting connection of dubious import, why would the Texans be interested in Clemons?

Let's see Asst. GM for 5th round draft pick by another team v. GM for 2nd round draft pick for current team. Hmmm, whose guy likely wins?

Playoffs
03-28-2014, 11:26 AM
Tania Ganguli ‏@taniaganguli
Have to apologize for a mistake. Manning has not yet agreed to the pay cut, but the #Texans are working on it. Misunderstood my source.

:kubepalm:

Going to have to wait for confirmations on TG's stuff, now.

Tania - other than a drafting connection of dubious import, why would the Texans be interested in Clemons?

John McClain ‏@McClain_on_NFL
Free agent safety Chris Clemons is visiting Texans today. He played at Miami.

djohn2oo8
03-28-2014, 11:37 AM
John McClain ‏@McClain_on_NFL 7m
Free agent safety Chris Clemons is visiting Texans today. He played at Miami.

https://twitter.com/McClain_on_NFL?original_referer=http%3A%2F%2Fbbs.c lutchfans.net%2Fshowthread.php%3Ft%3D249366%26page %3D14&tw_i=449568702757736449&tw_p=tweetembed

PapaL
03-28-2014, 11:42 AM
How many Clemson guys can we have on a roster?

Playoffs
03-28-2014, 11:43 AM
John McClain ‏@McClain_on_NFL
Free agent safety Chris Clemons is visiting Texans today. He played at Miami.

Chris Clemons, 28, played five years for Dolphins. He's 6-1, 214. Texans signed FS Kendrick Lewis last week.

Chris Clemons ran a 4.33 40 at the 2009 Combine.

He was rated 19th/86 Safties overall in 2013 by PFF (http://www.profootballfocus.com/) (>25% snaps) and 9th/86 in pass coverage.

drs23
03-28-2014, 11:48 AM
https://twitter.com/McClain_on_NFL?original_referer=http%3A%2F%2Fbbs.c lutchfans.net%2Fshowthread.php%3Ft%3D249366%26page %3D14&tw_i=449568702757736449&tw_p=tweetembed

http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=104550

HOU-TEX
03-28-2014, 11:57 AM
I think it's fairly clear Crennel isn't too high on our safeties

TexansSeminole
03-28-2014, 11:59 AM
I think it's fairly clear Crennel isn't too high on our safeties

That's great news.

Playoffs
03-28-2014, 12:06 PM
Apologies, didn't see other topic.

I think it's fairly clear Crennel isn't too high on our safeties

I don't think this draft is very deep for quality Safeties.

Clemons grades very well in coverage, which we need in place of McCain. Over the last two years, Clemons took the 2nd and 4th most defensive snaps of all Safties in the league.

HouSportsWriter
03-28-2014, 12:06 PM
Well my prediction of manning getting cut was wrong, but I'm happy he is still a Texan!

Porky
03-28-2014, 12:08 PM
Clemons would be a great addition. Would be the first impact player at all. I'm not saying like an all-pro or anything, but he would truly be the first real upgrade anywhere on the team.

Crosses fingers.

HOU-TEX
03-28-2014, 12:10 PM
That's great news.

Manning has struggled the past couple years, for sure. I think Swearinger has some potential if he can become more than just a box safety. I guess I might be a bit surprised we aren't going after more front 7 type players. Maybe they are, I don't know.

It's strange both JJo and Manning had very good seasons their first year here, then dropped off a cliff afterwards. Injuries or whatev, they aren't worth what we're paying them, especially JJo

TexansSeminole
03-28-2014, 12:22 PM
Manning has struggled the past couple years, for sure. I think Swearinger has some potential if he can become more than just a box safety. I guess I might be a bit surprised we aren't going after more front 7 type players. Maybe they are, I don't know.

It's strange both JJo and Manning had very good seasons their first year here, then dropped off a cliff afterwards. Injuries or whatev, they aren't worth what we're paying them, especially JJo

I think most DBs in the league would have struggled in Wade's scheme last year. Hopefully JJo and Manning can thrive again in the new system.

Number19
03-28-2014, 12:25 PM
Hope he signs. Would be a significant addition to the roster.

IDEXAN
03-28-2014, 12:26 PM
John McClain ‏@McClain_on_NFL


Chris Clemons ran a 4.33 40 at the 2009 Combine.

He was rated 19th/86 Safties overall in 2013 by PFF (http://www.profootballfocus.com/) (>25% snaps) and 9th/86 in pass coverage.
Impressive. That's CB speed. But is there much remaining doubt now that Manning is gone ?

Playoffs
03-28-2014, 12:27 PM
Now it's: Texans ask Manning to take pay cut (http://espn.go.com/blog/houston-texans/post/_/id/4773/texans-ask-manning-to-take-pay-cut-host-another-safety)

WolverineFan
03-28-2014, 12:29 PM
Impressive. That's CB speed. But is there much remaining doubt now that Manning is gone ?

Depends on if he's willing to restructure. I hope he does and I really hope we sign Clemons. That would give us a pretty deep Safety group.

SS - Manning / Swearinger
FS - Clemons / Lewis

Keo and Pleasant fight for a roster spot as a special teams ace and reserve safety.

The Pencil Neck
03-28-2014, 12:29 PM
Impressive. That's CB speed. But is there much remaining doubt now that Manning is gone ?

Back when the news was that Manning was taking a pay cut, I was surprised. Why would he take a pay cut so we could sign another safety?

Now that it's "Texans ASK Manning to take a pay cut", I'm thinking Manning is probably gone.

_King_
03-28-2014, 12:30 PM
Well my prediction of manning getting cut was wrong, but I'm happy he is still a Texan!

Texans likely would have cut him if he had not taken a pay cut...

I don't know if it's done or not yet, so I think it's still possible.

ArlingtonTexan
03-28-2014, 12:33 PM
Now it's: Texans ask Manning to take pay cut (http://espn.go.com/blog/houston-texans/post/_/id/4773/texans-ask-manning-to-take-pay-cut-host-another-safety)

Title edited to reflect this.

_King_
03-28-2014, 12:43 PM
I hope he refuses the pay cut and they just release him.

thunderkyss
03-28-2014, 12:52 PM
I hope he refuses the pay cut and they just release him.

Agreed. I'd have rather kept OD.

Norg
03-28-2014, 12:52 PM
o no Cernal does not like SWAGGG !!!! LOL

_King_
03-28-2014, 12:56 PM
Agreed. I'd have rather kept OD.


I would've rather kept OD and let Graham and DMan go.

But I guess the Texans are going much younger.

JB
03-28-2014, 01:12 PM
Manning has struggled the past couple years, for sure. I think Swearinger has some potential if he can become more than just a box safety. I guess I might be a bit surprised we aren't going after more front 7 type players. Maybe they are, I don't know.

It's strange both JJo and Manning had very good seasons their first year here, then dropped off a cliff afterwards. Injuries or whatev, they aren't worth what we're paying them, especially JJo

That was a recurring theme with previous coaching regime

Carr Bombed
03-28-2014, 01:25 PM
I would've rather kept OD and let Graham and DMan go.

But I guess the Texans are going much younger.

Daniels couldn't stay healthy and when a player who can't stay healthy carries the price tag he did he is usually the first to go.. I would've taken Graham over him as well. Younger tends to = healthier.

_King_
03-28-2014, 01:29 PM
Daniels couldn't stay healthy and when a player who can't stay healthy carries the price tag he did he is usually the first to go.. I would've taken Graham over him as well. Younger tends to = healthier.

Was going to disagree.

But I can't.

You're right.

VTexan
03-28-2014, 01:40 PM
good move. can see all three of our safeties on the field quite a bit next year.

htownfan32
03-28-2014, 01:40 PM
Daniels couldn't stay healthy and when a player who can't stay healthy carries the price tag he did he is usually the first to go.. I would've taken Graham over him as well. Younger tends to = healthier.

I liked Owen Daniels, but the above is 100% true.

CloakNNNdagger
03-28-2014, 01:50 PM
John McClain ‏@McClain_on_NFL


Chris Clemons ran a 4.33 40 at the 2009 Combine.

He was rated 19th/86 Safties overall in 2013 by PFF (http://www.profootballfocus.com/) (>25% snaps) and 9th/86 in pass coverage.

Wasn't Miami essentially playing Clemons as a STRONG safety as opposed to a FREE safety???

eriadoc
03-28-2014, 01:55 PM
How many Clemson guys can we have on a roster?

Aside from Hopkins, Watkins, and maybe this guy, how many others are there?

;)

PapaL
03-28-2014, 01:59 PM
Aside from Hopkins, Watkins, and maybe this guy, how many others are there?

;)

If we get Watkins to pair up w Hopkins, we have to get Boyd too!

Houston Tigers! :kitten:

Here's a copy of the players we're targeting lol; LINK (http://www.clemsontigers.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=28500&ATCLID=209249646)

WolverineFan
03-28-2014, 02:01 PM
Wasn't Miami essentially playing Clemons as a STRONG safety as opposed to a FREE safety???

I'm not sure. They locked up Reshad Jones to a four-year deal last year and he's listed at SS on every depth chart I've seen.

steelbtexan
03-28-2014, 02:01 PM
I hope he refuses the pay cut and they just release him.

Why?

WolverineFan
03-28-2014, 02:02 PM
Aside from Hopkins, Watkins, and maybe this guy, how many others are there?

;)

Ricky Sapp

Playoffs
03-28-2014, 02:05 PM
Wasn't Miami essentially playing Clemons as a STRONG safety as opposed to a FREE safety???

I'd have to watch their games, but PFF shows him lining up as FS with Jones at SS for 2013. Jones is better vs. run, Clemons tops vs. pass so that makes more sense to me. But it gets blurry these days. I wonder if he becomes the slot CB with his size?

thunderkyss
03-28-2014, 02:36 PM
Daniels couldn't stay healthy and when a player who can't stay healthy carries the price tag he did he is usually the first to go.. I would've taken Graham over him as well. Younger tends to = healthier.

I'd have taken Graham & OD... let DMann walk.

_King_
03-28-2014, 04:00 PM
Why?

Because I don't think Manning was a good FS and I think there are some decent players still in FA that we could use that money on. Also, he's older...Coming off a bad injury.

DocBar
03-28-2014, 04:47 PM
I'd have taken Graham & OD... let DMann walk.Only if OD agreed to a pay cut. I love the guy for his past contributions, but OD was in decline.

TheMatrix31
03-28-2014, 05:08 PM
Clemons is signing according to Ganguli. Good.

DX-TEX
03-28-2014, 05:09 PM
Clemons is signing according to Ganguli. Good.

Tania Ganguli ‏@taniaganguli · 2m
The #Texans are signing S Chris Clemons to a 2-year deal.

_King_
03-28-2014, 05:12 PM
Good.

_King_
03-28-2014, 05:16 PM
http://www.miamiherald.com/2013/10/24/3707705/miami-dolphins-defense-in-safe.html

And, when given the opportunity, he can make the big play. In Miami’s 23-21 loss to Buffalo on Sunday, Clemons picked off a wounded duck offered up by Thad Lewis in Bills’ territory.

It’s just one reason that Pro Football Focus rates Clemons as the sixth-best coverage safety in football.

Quarterbacks have completed just 3 of 8 passes thrown in his coverage area this year, and he hasn’t been tested once the past two games.

Furthermore, just one of the eight passing touchdowns surrendered by the Dolphins’ defense this year was on Clemons’ watch.

“That’s how you stay in the league,” Clemons said. “You’ve got to make plays.”

And how you get the security of a multiyear deal. Clemons had a strong 2012, teaming up with Jones to form one of the best safety tandems in football.

Yet when Clemons hit the open market in March, the Dolphins were able to bring him back on a one-year deal worth $2.75 million.

Meaning: Clemons is a great value for the Dolphins. But if they want him back in 2014, they’ll probably have to pay up — and not just for one season.

Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2013/10/24/3707705/miami-dolphins-defense-in-safe.html#storylink=cpy

WolverineFan
03-28-2014, 05:17 PM
Easily our 2nd best FA move so far.

Can't believe Miami let Clemons walk to sign the injury plagued Delmas. Well I can believe it but seriously?

281
03-28-2014, 05:18 PM
I guess this means we're cutting Manning?

CloakNNNdagger
03-28-2014, 05:19 PM
Because I don't think Manning was a good FS and I think there are some decent players still in FA that we could use that money on. Also, he's older...Coming off a bad injury.

If Manning does poorly this year, it won't be because of his surgically repaired right fibula fracture. If it's as reported.....an isolated shaft stress fracture of the fibula, after the 6 week healing period and additional month or so of getting back into shape, it should be a non issue. If you remember, Manning suffered the exact same type of fibula stress fracture (on the left) and had it surgically repaired in 2011, and came back quite soon by 6 weeks (probably pushing it a little too much). If he accepts the pay cut, and we have an improved DL and D scheme, I believe it will have the potential of a good re-investment.

TheMatrix31
03-28-2014, 05:22 PM
Thank God Clemons is good in coverage. We need it so badly. I've had enough of our secondary getting embarrassed.

_King_
03-28-2014, 05:27 PM
If Manning does poorly this year, it won't be because of his surgically repaired right fibula fracture. If it's as reported.....an isolated shaft stress fracture of the fibula, after the 6 week healing period and additional month or so of getting back into shape, it should be a non issue. If you remember, Manning suffered the exact same type of fibula stress fracture (on the left) and had it surgically repaired in 2011, and came back quite soon by 6 weeks (probably pushing it a little too much). If he accepts the pay cut, and we have an improved DL and D scheme, I believe it will have the potential of a good re-investment.

I'm not saying he's going to have any issues with his injury recovery. You're the Doc, so you obviously have the expertise in that area.

What I'm saying is that I don't think he's worth what he's being paid. If he restructures...great...

But I'd just prefer to let him walk and use that money elsewhere...Not going to cry if he re-signs though...He's a decent player...I just don't think he's really good...As a FS...

Bleed_Blu_Red
03-28-2014, 05:29 PM
Very Happy with the Clemons signing. Guy has 4.33 speed, a Good Tackler and Cover guy nice signing. Plus 6'1,214

CloakNNNdagger
03-28-2014, 05:30 PM
From PFF:

Ranking the 2014 Free Agents: Safeties (https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2014/02/21/ranking-the-2014-free-agents-safeties/)

John Castellane | February 21, 2014

4. Chris Clemons

2013 Grade: +4.1
2013 Snaps: 1158

Summary: Clemons made this same list last year, but after a stellar season he jumped five spots from the ninth-best free agent safety, to No. 4. Last year, with no big offers on the table, he returned to Miami on a one-year deal hoping to increase his value. The former fifth-round pick is now ready to cash in with a long-term deal, and while most will view him as a drop-off from the top three names, he might be a better value. Clemons was our 19th-ranked safety and excelled in coverage — his +7.2 grade in that department was ninth among safeties and he allowed just 0.20 yards per coverage snap, best in the league. However, his run defense grade dipped from +4.4 in 2012 to -3.6 in 2013 and his 14 missed tackles were 13th most of all safeties. Clemons will surely garner more interest


May be "steal".......if he doesn't price himself out of our market.

CloakNNNdagger
03-28-2014, 05:39 PM
I'm not saying he's going to have any issues with his injury recovery. You're the Doc, so you obviously have the expertise in that area.

What I'm saying is that I don't think he's worth what he's being paid. If he restructures...great...

But I'd just prefer to let him walk and use that money elsewhere...Not going to cry if he re-signs though...He's a decent player...I just don't think he's really good...As a FS...

Can't disagree. Just think that the safety position didn't get much help last year. Would expect "changes" in DL and scheme to have a very positive effect on what the safeties this year look like.:texflag:

Bleed_Blu_Red
03-28-2014, 05:39 PM
So this might make Dman gone. If we cut ties how much money do we get back?

_King_
03-28-2014, 05:40 PM
Can't disagree. Just think that the safety position didn't get much help last year. Would expect "changes" in DL and scheme to have a very positive effect on what the safeties this year look like.:texflag:

Yeah...You are right about that too...

Outside of Watt, our pass rush was non-existent...

djohn2oo8
03-28-2014, 05:47 PM
John McClain @McClain_on_NFL

Chris Clemons two years for 2.7 mil and 450,000 guaranteed.

What a steal!

Playoffs
03-28-2014, 05:50 PM
Clemons is a good signing. Improves back end speed/coverage, doesn't break the bank.

John McClain ‏@McClain_on_NFL
Chris Clemons counts $1.15 million against the cap this year.

Chris Clemons two years for 2.7 mil and 450,000 guaranteed.

Lucky
03-28-2014, 05:52 PM
Keo and Pleasant fight for a roster spot as a special teams ace and reserve safety.
Or they draft a safety that's better than either of them. Which shouldn't be that difficult.

_King_
03-28-2014, 05:52 PM
Wow...That's a good deal...

Wolf6151
03-28-2014, 05:53 PM
Quote:
John McClain @McClain_on_NFL

Chris Clemons two years for 2.7 mil and 450,000 guaranteed.


Rick Smith for GM of the year. He got rid of Sharpton, finally got us a real NT, was able to trade Schaub so that we get a pick for him instead of just cutting him, and now a great deal on a good FS.

bah007
03-28-2014, 05:55 PM
Depends on if he's willing to restructure. I hope he does and I really hope we sign Clemons. That would give us a pretty deep Safety group.

SS - Manning / Swearinger
FS - Clemons / Lewis

Keo and Pleasant fight for a roster spot as a special teams ace and reserve safety.

Or they draft a safety that's better than either of them. Which shouldn't be that difficult.

I could get behind this. If we drafted a backup S and a nickel corner our secondary looks drastically improved.

Lucky
03-28-2014, 05:56 PM
Rick Smith for GM of the year. He got rid of Sharpton, finally got us a real NT, was able to trade Schaub so that we get a pick for him instead of just cutting him, and now a great deal on a good FS.
Smith is also the GM that drafted Sharpton, never drafted a real NT, and gave Schaub the ridiculous contract. Let's just say he's righting some of his wrongs.

_King_
03-28-2014, 05:56 PM
I think Kubiak was holding Rick Smith back.

djohn2oo8
03-28-2014, 05:59 PM
I think Kubiak was holding Rick Smith back.

I wouldn't doubt it. The Reed signing was purely on McNair.

Showtime100
03-28-2014, 05:59 PM
I think Kubiak was holding Rick Smith back.

I'm beginning to get really interested in his work atmosphere. Kubiak era vs now. This keeps up I take back much of what I said in the past.

Good signing.

michaelm
03-28-2014, 06:01 PM
Great signing. Very nice value, IMO.

thunderkyss
03-28-2014, 06:02 PM
Only if OD agreed to a pay cut. I love the guy for his past contributions, but OD was in decline.

As it stands right now, we're asking DMann to take a paycut. I'd rather be sitting here talking about asking OD to take a pay cut with DMann long gone than the other way around.

I'm perfectly fine going forward without either, but if I could pick one or the other..... OD has done a lot more for this team than DMann ever will.

Playoffs
03-28-2014, 06:04 PM
I'm beginning to get really interested in his work atmosphere. Kubiak era vs now...

Good value FA signing that addresses weakness... something doesn't feel right. :mcnugget:

BigBull
03-28-2014, 06:05 PM
Quote:
John McClain @McClain_on_NFL

Chris Clemons two years for 2.7 mil and 450,000 guaranteed.


Rick Smith for GM of the year. He got rid of Sharpton, finally got us a real NT, was able to trade Schaub so that we get a pick for him instead of just cutting him, and now a great deal on a good FS.

What has impressed me the most about the free agent signings so far is that Rick appears to have figured out how to sign them to fair market value.

thunderkyss
03-28-2014, 06:05 PM
http://www.miamiherald.com/2013/10/24/3707705/miami-dolphins-defense-in-safe.htmlIt’s just one reason that Pro Football Focus rates Clemons as the sixth-best coverage safety in football.



Something's not adding up. Like Maybe Gugliana is jumping the gun again & we've made him an offer that he's going to ask the Dolphins to match.

Wolf6151
03-28-2014, 06:05 PM
Smith is also the GM that drafted Sharpton, never drafted a real NT, and gave Schaub the ridiculous contract. Let's just say he's righting some of his wrongs.

That's why I said of the year (2014), not of the decade. I agree he's fixing some of his previous errors. It looks like Rick is getting better advice/guidance from O'Brien than he did from Kubiak. I also forgot about Fitzpatrick who I think can be a good but not great starter, or a great backup/mentor to a new QB. I've at least got hope for the future now because we're moving in the right direction, though we have a long ways to go.

Ben Frank
03-28-2014, 06:07 PM
Are people forgetting that OD failed his physical? Honestly I don't know much about Clemens, but from the fan reactions seems like a good pick up, so I'm fine with it.. hopefully Manning takes the pay cut, he has regressed some... but he's still a top tier safety, and under RC he could be used in a more aggressive manor

Thorn
03-28-2014, 06:08 PM
OK, that was damn good value on that signing. Good show Texans.

CloakNNNdagger
03-28-2014, 06:35 PM
I would have to remain somewhat guarded re. JJo going into this season.

Following the 2012 season, he underwent bilateral "sports hernia" surgery. He reinjured his groin mid December 2013, then 2 weeks later was placed on IR due to an acute "foot" injury, that actually led to "toe" surgery. What most did not pay much attention to is the fact that his original toe injury occurred in September 2013. He was never rested outside of being allowed a couple of "limited" practices. He continued to play on what is now evident to have been what I initially suspected........a Turf Toe......until the ligament/capsule finally tore entirely, thus requiring surgery. This year, one must ask if either the groin(s) and/or toe be injuries he can overcome........or will they remain a chronic performance-inhibiting problem, which both such injuries have such potential of becoming.

steelbtexan
03-28-2014, 06:41 PM
I wouldn't doubt it. The Reed signing was purely on McNair.

And you know this how?

djohn2oo8
03-28-2014, 06:42 PM
And you know this how?

McNair kept talking about how the team needed "leadership" after losing to NE in the playoffs. How many FA have they sent McNair's private jet for? It was a dog and pony show.

steelbtexan
03-28-2014, 06:46 PM
I would have to remain somewhat guarded re. JJo going into this season.

Following the 2012 season, he underwent bilateral "sports hernia" surgery. He reinjured his groin mid December 2013, then 2 weeks later was placed on IR due to an acute "foot" injury, that actually led to "toe" surgery. What most did not pay much attention to is the fact that his original toe injury occurred in September 2013. He was never rested outside of being allowed a couple of "limited" practices. He continued to play on what is now evident to have been what I initially suspected........a Turf Toe......until the ligament/capsule finally tore entirely, thus requiring surgery. This year, one must ask if either the groin(s) and/or toe be injuries he can overcome........or will they remain a chronic performance-inhibiting problem, which both such injuries have such potential of becoming.

Very good question? One I suspect you've got a good idea of how things turn out for JoJo.

This is why I wasn't against cutting JoJo.

Fred
03-28-2014, 07:28 PM
How many Clemson guys can we have on a roster?

I would rather have a lot from Clemson than Colorado State.

Hottoddie
03-28-2014, 07:36 PM
How many Clemson guys can we have on a roster?

Uhhh...., I believe that would be 53. :D

Showtime100
03-28-2014, 07:37 PM
I would rather have a lot from Clemson than Colorado State.

I feel that way about Aggie-Texans...lol.

markn
03-28-2014, 08:32 PM
I think Kubiak was holding Rick Smith back.

Yes, but unfortunately Smith was trying to jump off a cliff at the time.

Seegara
03-28-2014, 10:13 PM
I think it's fairly clear Crennel isn't too high on our safeties
I'm not either. They don't get over and help out the cornerback.

dc_txtech
03-28-2014, 11:29 PM
I'm not either. They don't get over and help out the cornerback.

Yeah cuz Wade had them man to man on every defensive call.

Playoffs
03-28-2014, 11:46 PM
Agent: There are limits to the pay cut Danieal Manning is willing to take (http://www.myfoxhouston.com/story/25105681/2014/03/28/agent-there-are-limits-to-the-pay-cut-danieal-manning-is-willing-to-take)
"He would be willing to take a pay cut, but not the amount they've asked him to take," said Russel Hicks in an interview with FOX 26 Sports. "He's willing to do something to take one for the team and help them save some cap space.

"The numbers, where we are and where they are, there's just a difference right now. Hopefully, we can meet at some middle ground and move forward."

Hicks did not get specific about what Manning is willing to do and what the team would like him to do.

He said the talks are amicable.

"Very, very (amicable)," Hicks said. "One of the things that he understands and I understand that this is a business. I understand how things happen. He's coming off of an injury. You've got a new coaching staff in here. You got a new defense, new everything. This may be where they are with him at the safety position right now.

"They said they did not want him to leave. They made that more than clear. They need to save some money cap-wise and they're looking at him."

Brisco_County
03-28-2014, 11:47 PM
I would have to remain somewhat guarded re. JJo going into this season.

Following the 2012 season, he underwent bilateral "sports hernia" surgery. He reinjured his groin mid December 2013, then 2 weeks later was placed on IR due to an acute "foot" injury, that actually led to "toe" surgery. What most did not pay much attention to is the fact that his original toe injury occurred in September 2013. He was never rested outside of being allowed a couple of "limited" practices. He continued to play on what is now evident to have been what I initially suspected........a Turf Toe......until the ligament/capsule finally tore entirely, thus requiring surgery. This year, one must ask if either the groin(s) and/or toe be injuries he can overcome........or will they remain a chronic performance-inhibiting problem, which both such injuries have such potential of becoming.

I was just looking at pictures online of grade 3 tears. Looks like a really crappy injury to endure. Is there a chance that the surgery was necessary to only remove a bone spur?

Lucky
03-29-2014, 12:16 AM
Sounds like Manning's agent is still gauging what his value would be on the open market. I hope they can keep Manning, but a Clemons/Lewis/Swearinger combo at safety would be OK.

acal21
03-29-2014, 02:22 AM
What has impressed me the most about the free agent signings so far is that Rick appears to have figured out how to sign them to fair market value.

i feel like he is not jumping the gun, has some confidence in his coaching and the schemes instead of having to have the best player

Bulls on Parade
03-29-2014, 02:50 AM
Sounds like Manning's agent is still gauging what his value would be on the open market. I hope they can keep Manning, but a Clemons/Lewis/Swearinger combo at safety would be OK.
Another pressing issue is Johnathan Joseph's $7.5 million and $8.5 million base salary in 2014 and 2015. He's an aging cornerback and his play has gone down hill since his all pro season in 2011. Should we just trust the young kids and release Manning and Joseph? Let's save some significant cap space and bite the bullet with whatever dead money. Well actually I think Joseph is a pretty big name and many contenders would be lining up to give up at least a fourth round pick for him even at that salary.

Use the draft to refuel our talent level on defense and let's bring in another ballhawking cornerback in the third or fourth round. Unless you think the Texans will compete for the playoffs in 2014. I think as of right now, we're a 6-10 team on paper. With some luck staying healthy and improved quarterback play, we may have a 10-6 team. The difference in 2 wins, to 6 wins, to even 10 wins is a few more plays being made in the fourth quarter. We had several opportunities last season to win a lot more games even without Arian Foster and Brian Cushing.

NastyNate
03-29-2014, 03:20 AM
Man coverage with zero pass rush aside from Watt distorts the capability of Manning and J-Jo. Manning is an excellent tackler and pretty good in coverage, I don't want Swearinger whiffing on tackles the next 3 years just to save a couple mil.

CloakNNNdagger
03-29-2014, 09:12 AM
I was just looking at pictures online of grade 3 tears. Looks like a really crappy injury to endure. Is there a chance that the surgery was necessary to only remove a bone spur?

The big toe bone spurs are actually the end-stage arthritic result of turf toe cartilage damage to the joint of this toe. This occurs following repeated damage to the volar capsule (plantar plate) and collateral ligaments of that joint. The need for any surgery (reserved for only severe advanced cases) on turf toe still leaves the toe with expected ongoing degenerative changes.

The diagram below shows the the tear of the volar capsule and the cartilage/bone damage. With the resulting denuding of the cartilage (bone-on-bone), arthritis quickly develops......and a bone spur develops there at the joint, obstructing and limiting the range of motion of the joint, thus creating grinding with accompanying severe pain with movement.


http://a248.e.akamai.net/7/248/432/20120426191821/www.msdlatinamerica.com/ebooks/PracticalOrthopaedicSportsMedicineArthrocopy/files/8b1bc8dedbf76340ce7efad85823f9bc.gif


Damage (Diagram below) to the stabilizing collateral ligaments allow abnormal side-to-side rocking movements of the joint to further contribute to the grinding down of joint cartilage.


http://lowerextremityreview.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/11TurfToe-fig2.jpg



So, in summary, bone spurs here do not occur in isolation and is a far more worrisome reflection of underlying serious degenerative processes. Surgery is directed not only to removal of the movement-obstructing bone spur, but also to the repair of the damaged volar capsule and stabilizing soft tissue structures of the joint.

Hope this answers your question.

thunderkyss
03-29-2014, 09:54 AM
Sounds like Manning's agent is still gauging what his value would be on the open market. I hope they can keep Manning, but a Clemons/Lewis/Swearinger combo at safety would be OK.

Don't forget Keo.

Playoffs
03-29-2014, 10:35 AM
Love the reactions from around the league fan bases on Clemons signing,

Why the £^€# didn't [insert team/GM name here] sign this guy??? :pissed:

Goldensilence
03-29-2014, 11:00 AM
Seriously, I'm not sure what to do here right now. Within a few weeks this staff has addressed several nagging concerns that have hurt this team during Gary's . Namely to start lack of depth and quality at the safety position.

Look, whether this is Crennel's call or Smith or both kudos are in order specially for the upgrades at reasonable cost. I can only hope this end Keo's tenure with the team.

I'll give Rick this while it hasn't been a FA free for all re-tooling, aside from the Graham signing some fairly Savy signings here. This to me adds fuel back to speculation about the relationship between Gary and Rick when it came down to football operations of the team.

bah007
03-29-2014, 11:05 AM
I'm glad people are starting to step back from the edge of the cliff now.

This is what you use FA for. Wait out the first and second wave of wild spending. Hold onto the guys that you want. And then find the bargains out there.

djohn2oo8
03-29-2014, 11:29 AM
Seriously, I'm not sure what to do here right now. Within a few weeks this staff has addressed several nagging concerns that have hurt this team during Gary's . Namely to start lack of depth and quality at the safety position.

Look, whether this is Crennel's call or Smith or both kudos are in order specially for the upgrades at reasonable cost. I can only hope this end Keo's tenure with the team.

I'll give Rick this while it hasn't been a FA free for all re-tooling, aside from the Graham signing some fairly Savy signings here. This to me adds fuel back to speculation about the relationship between Gary and Rick when it came down to football operations of the team.

I also think Kubiak also put pressure on Smith to get Schaub's extension done early that season.

AngryNateFTW
03-29-2014, 11:33 AM
Trade Manning also?

The Pencil Neck
03-29-2014, 12:12 PM
Trade Manning also?

Well... the Raiders do still exist...

thunderkyss
03-29-2014, 01:05 PM
Seriously, I'm not sure what to do here right now. Within a few weeks this staff has addressed several nagging concerns that have hurt this team during Gary's . Namely to start lack of depth and quality at the safety position.

Look, whether this is Crennel's call or Smith or both kudos are in order specially for the upgrades at reasonable cost.

You know I'm one of the rah-rah, forever optimists on the board. However, I'm cautious for some reason about what we've seen so far. Quentin Demps was the starting FS on the team we got Lewis from.

Kubiak/Wade didn't feel like Demps had a spot on this team.

Now Clemens... the numbers look good, the Miami fan reaction seems favorable, the chatter around the league looks good... but the money. The money doesn't give me cause to be too excited, or expect much.

I'll get excited after camp, if either Lewis or Clemens beat out Manning or Swag for a starting job. Otherwise, we're waiting for an injury before these guys can contribute.

I've had about enough injuries on this defense to last a lifetime.

ObsiWan
03-29-2014, 01:18 PM
I'm glad people are starting to step back from the edge of the cliff now.

This is what you use FA for. Wait out the first and second wave of wild spending. Hold onto the guys that you want. And then find the bargains out there.
I tried to point that out when F/A first began and posters were griping that we hadn't done anything. Unless there's someone out there you just HAVE to have (see Bob McNair's Ed Reed fetish last year) just wait for the first wave to subside and get the value signings when the free agents start to worry that they might be without a job this season. Players - at least the ones without big name recognition - are willing to sign up for more reasonable contracts as the draft approaches.

WolverineFan
03-29-2014, 01:52 PM
You know I'm one of the rah-rah, forever optimists on the board. However, I'm cautious for some reason about what we've seen so far. Quentin Demps was the starting FS on the team we got Lewis from.


That's incorrect. Demps was the 3rd safety for KC last year. Eric Berry started 15 games at SS and Lewis started 15 games at FS. Demps started 6 games last year...1 at SS, 1 at FS, and 4 as a 3rd safety when KC opened the game in a Nickel alignment.

Hottoddie
03-29-2014, 05:17 PM
I tried to point that out when F/A first began and posters were griping that we hadn't done anything. Unless there's someone out there you just HAVE to have (see Bob McNair's Ed Reed fetish last year) just wait for the first wave to subside and get the value signings when the free agents start to worry that they might be without a job this season. Players - at least the ones without big name recognition - are willing to sign up for more reasonable contracts as the draft approaches.

I was one of those gripers. I wasn't expecting us to go after a lot of FA's early, but I did want to see us go get one of the better RTs rather than try to find one in the draft. There were some very good young ones available in the $6 million range. Then we could've waited for the bargains to pop up. Securing a veteran starting RT would've solidified our O'Line & left us free to focus on the defensive side of the draft with all our picks except for the one used on a QB. Now, I'll just have to hope that Brennan Williams & the "Q" have recovered from their injuries & can step up their games.

However, having said all that, I am pleased with the FA's we have signed.

thunderkyss
03-29-2014, 05:33 PM
Now, I'll just have to hope that Brennan Williams & the "Q" have recovered from their injuries & can step up their games.



There was an article somewhere, where OB said Paul Dunn was familiar with Quessenberry, that Dunn was interested in him when he was working Atlanta's draft last year.

So maybe they've already got designs for him. His injury isn't anything like Brennan's. He should be good to go.

CloakNNNdagger
03-29-2014, 07:03 PM
There was an article somewhere, where OB said Paul Dunn was familiar with Quessenberry, that Dunn was interested in him when he was working Atlanta's draft last year.

So maybe they've already got designs for him. His injury isn't anything like Brennan's. He should be good to go.

As I mentioned before, it bothers me that the Texans have never characterized Quessenberry's injury at all past calling it a "foot fracture" Let's just hope it wasn't a Lisfranc fracture (which is a mid foot fracture), and they are too skittish to reveal it in light of what the Schaub situation brought.

Corrosion
03-29-2014, 08:06 PM
Safety was one of the few position groups on the roster that I felt was solid from a talent aspect with Manning , Swearinger , Keo (who I thought played well last season) and Pleasant.

Either they don't like the talent at the position or this is a wasteful allocation of cap space.

DocBar
03-29-2014, 08:52 PM
Safety was one of the few position groups on the roster that I felt was solid from a talent aspect with Manning , Swearinger , Keo (who I thought played well last season) and Pleasant.

Either they don't like the talent at the position or this is a wasteful allocation of cap space.I love the signing. Clemons is better in coverage than Manning. I won't be surprised if Manning is cut since he isn't taking a pay cut.

infantrycak
03-29-2014, 09:18 PM
I love the signing. Clemons is better in coverage than Manning.

Not so sure about that.

Manning is a lot better at turnovers - almost twice the pace (that includes accounting for the games started differential).

I wonder if the intent isn't to have Clemons and Manning start (both have started at SS & FS) and Swearinger be the 3rd safety - if Manning can be convinced to reduce his contract.

ObsiWan
03-29-2014, 09:19 PM
I love the signing. Clemons is better in coverage than Manning. I won't be surprised if Manning is cut since he isn't taking a pay cut.
has that been decided finally? I thought Manning's camp said they weren't against taking a pay cut/restructure but during the initial talks they and the Texans weren't all that close together. Yet.

CloakNNNdagger
03-29-2014, 09:26 PM
Not so sure about that.

Manning is a lot better at turnovers - almost twice the pace (that includes accounting for the games started differential).

I wonder if the intent isn't to have Clemons and Manning start (both have started at SS & FS) and Swearinger be the 3rd safety - if Manning can be convinced to reduce his contract.

FWIW, I heard a discussion with some scout on 610 today that addressed that very subject...........essentially saying that for whatever reason his prior team only felt comfortable using him virtually exclusively at the strong safety position (despite the fact that he only played ~ 1/3 of the plays in the box).

AngryNateFTW
03-29-2014, 09:51 PM
Not so sure about that.

Manning is a lot better at turnovers - almost twice the pace (that includes accounting for the games started differential).

I wonder if the intent isn't to have Clemons and Manning start (both have started at SS & FS) and Swearinger be the 3rd safety - if Manning can be convinced to reduce his contract.

That's actually a good move. Could Swearinger be able to come in as a slot? Not sure he's got the quick twitch ability to make a play on a quick slant/hitch/out route.

Swearinger looks like he could be a solid piece to our defense, but not sure he could do that.

_King_
03-29-2014, 09:58 PM
Manning and Clemens at safety is actually really solid.

But I'm not high on manning as a FS. He does not flip his hips all that great. He's more of a straight line player.

infantrycak
03-29-2014, 10:10 PM
That's actually a good move. Could Swearinger be able to come in as a slot? Not sure he's got the quick twitch ability to make a play on a quick slant/hitch/out route.

Swearinger looks like he could be a solid piece to our defense, but not sure he could do that.

I'd be tempted to put Swearinger deep and pull Manning into the slot.

_King_
03-29-2014, 10:14 PM
I'd be tempted to grab one if these vet FA corners and putting Kareem in the slot and the vet outside in 3 wide sets. I think he'd be excellent there.

NastyNate
03-29-2014, 10:15 PM
Not so sure about that.

Manning is a lot better at turnovers - almost twice the pace (that includes accounting for the games started differential).

I wonder if the intent isn't to have Clemons and Manning start (both have started at SS & FS) and Swearinger be the 3rd safety - if Manning can be convinced to reduce his contract.

Agree on all points, Manning and Clemons would be a nice safety tandem with Swearinger or Pleasant as the third option.

CloakNNNdagger
03-30-2014, 09:43 AM
From another perspective:

Before we get too excited about the Clemons signing, consider what a local sports radio host in Miami had to say about him.


Orlando Alzugaray, 640 Sports in Miami, joined The B-Straw and Pauly G Show to discuss the Chris Clemons signing. Alzugaray is not high on the new Texan. He says he might be good for competition but thinks it would be a bad idea for the Texans to start him. - houston.cbslocal.com

When asked what the Texans are getting in Chris Clemons:


Alzugaray said, "A mediocre [safety] who takes bad angles and is not very good back there. He's a nice kid, but he's not much of a football player. He was up for free agency last year, and nobody wanted him. And [Miami Dolphins' GM] Jeff Ireland, who is a moron, brought him back for a year. He just makes no plays. Miami doesn't have a good free safety, and they let him go. That tells you all you need to know."

That's a pretty damning review from a local sports radio host. Let's hope Rick & RAC know more than that Alzugaray.

Strange evaluation for a safety who rated in the top 20 by PFF.

The Battleredblog article 2014 Houston Texans Offseason: "The Safety Dance" (http://www.battleredblog.com/2014/3/29/5560824/2014-houston-texans-offseason-the-safety-dance)
offers some interesting comparisons of our newly-acquired safeties.

DocBar
03-30-2014, 11:19 AM
I'd be tempted to put Swearinger deep and pull Manning into the slot.Why would you be tempted to do that? Swearinger seems much more natural at SS to me.

Clemons deep, DJ at SS and Manning in the slot wouldn't be a bad line up, imo.

DX-TEX
03-30-2014, 11:28 AM
Can we at least spell his name right in the thread title?

Texn4life
03-30-2014, 11:41 AM
If Crennel and Rick Smith aren't smarter than a radio host then we're in for a brutally long year.

JB
03-30-2014, 11:42 AM
Why would you be tempted to do that? Swearinger seems much more natural at SS to me.

Clemons deep, DJ at SS and Manning in the slot wouldn't be a bad line up, imo.

Doesn't Clemons have much better speed that would translate to better at the slot?

WolverineFan
03-30-2014, 11:54 AM
Doesn't Clemons have much better speed that would translate to better at the slot?

He's always graded out positive as a deep safety so I see no reason to move him. Also, IIRC, I think Lewis has experience as a CB so maybe he will play some slot CB.

JB
03-30-2014, 12:02 PM
He's always graded out positive as a deep safety so I see no reason to move him. Also, IIRC, I think Lewis has experience as a CB so maybe he will play some slot CB.

Thanks, I don't know either of them

thunderkyss
03-30-2014, 12:41 PM
From another perspective:



Strange evaluation for a safety who rated in the top 20 by PFF.

The Battleredblog article 2014 Houston Texans Offseason: "The Safety Dance" (http://www.battleredblog.com/2014/3/29/5560824/2014-houston-texans-offseason-the-safety-dance)
offers some interesting comparisons of our newly-acquired safeties.

I think it's grain of salt time, with all our safeties. None of them proved to be starter material.... imo, last year there were flashes, or stats, or some reason to believe two of the four should be able to start in 2014; DMann's past history, Dj Swag's flashes, Keo was a solid safety, & Clemons has got PFF in his corner.

I think the name of the game here is competition.

thunderkyss
03-30-2014, 12:44 PM
Doesn't Clemons have much better speed that would translate to better at the slot?

I think speed equates to range. I want him covering center field. I want a physical guy in the slot to jam up the receiver/TE, not let him get into his route.

CloakNNNdagger
03-30-2014, 01:07 PM
I think it's grain of salt time, with all our safeties. None of them proved to be starter material.... imo, last year there were flashes, or stats, or some reason to believe two of the four should be able to start in 2014; DMann's past history, Dj Swag's flashes, Keo was a solid safety, & Clemons has got PFF in his corner.

I think the name of the game here is competition.

I agree with you whole-heartedly.........and hope that honest competition with this new regime carries over to ALL positions.

The Pencil Neck
03-30-2014, 01:12 PM
I think speed equates to range. I want him covering center field. I want a physical guy in the slot to jam up the receiver/TE, not let him get into his route.

^^^ This.

A speedy guy like that is probably going to be better away from everyone where he can see what's going on and use his speed to put him in the right position.

Now... if he takes bad angles, that's a problem.

_King_
03-30-2014, 02:09 PM
I think speed equates to range. I want him covering center field. I want a physical guy in the slot to jam up the receiver/TE, not let him get into his route.

You want someone in the slot that is physical and has agility.

Slot guys on offense come in different forms. Big guys, wes welker type guys, Owen Daniels type guys, ect....

And IMO that's why I think Kareem is perfect to bump down into the slot position when needed. He's really, really good on short stuff which is where you want your slot guy to excel. He can handle different types of guys as well. I think Kareem is perfect for the role.

infantrycak
03-30-2014, 03:14 PM
Why would you be tempted to do that? Swearinger seems much more natural at SS to me.

Clemons deep, DJ at SS and Manning in the slot wouldn't be a bad line up, imo.

It was meant to be implicit in my post that it was contemplating a 2 deep safety scenario.

Of the 3 I think Manning has the best ability to cover the Wes Welker's of the league who have given the Texans fits for years. He's more physical than his stature, has a knack for forcing fumbles when he can come downhill to tackle and most important has the agility to match the breaks of someone like Welker with long speed as well to boot. He has also shown plus ability to blitz from the position.

imatexan
03-30-2014, 05:26 PM
Safety was one of the few position groups on the roster that I felt was solid from a talent aspect with Manning , Swearinger , Keo (who I thought played well last season) and Pleasant.

Either they don't like the talent at the position or this is a wasteful allocation of cap space.

This, I don't know why we are pretty much only going after a position that we were not weak at compared to other positions of need.

How did most of you all of sudden decide Clemens is better than Manning?

I don't agree with that at all, this will only be a good signing if Manning stays on the team.

CloakNNNdagger
03-30-2014, 06:05 PM
This, I don't know why we are pretty much only going after a position that we were not weak at compared to other positions of need.

How did most of you all of sudden decide Clemens is better than Manning?

I don't agree with that at all, this will only be a good signing if Manning stays on the team.

One, it's probably adding pressure to negotiating with Manning.

Two, if Manning leaves, it's probably at least temporarily a backup plan.

Three, it's a very cheap acquisition (probably much cheaper than a so-called position of greater need)............cheap enough (only $450,000 guaranteed) that he is releasable virtually at any point.

_King_
03-30-2014, 07:26 PM
It was meant to be implicit in my post that it was contemplating a 2 deep safety scenario.

Of the 3 I think Manning has the best ability to cover the Wes Welker's of the league who have given the Texans fits for years. He's more physical than his stature, has a knack for forcing fumbles when he can come downhill to tackle and most important has the agility to match the breaks of someone like Welker with long speed as well to boot. He has also shown plus ability to blitz from the position.

That would be a disaster. If manning was that good he could just play corner period. If he was that good the texans wouldn't be asking him to take a pay cut.

infantrycak
03-30-2014, 07:37 PM
That would be a disaster. If manning was that good he could just play corner period. If he was that good the texans wouldn't be asking him to take a pay cut.

You're of course correct. Our nickel back is clearly superior. Remind me who that is again?

I thought we were talking about IF they choose to put three safeties on the field.

houstonspartan
03-30-2014, 09:58 PM
I agree with you whole-heartedly.........and hope that honest competition with this new regime carries over to ALL positions.


Yeah, the impression I get is that they're making everyone pretty much earn their spot. Nice change of pace, IMO.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

_King_
03-31-2014, 01:18 PM
Manning has been released.

TheMatrix31
03-31-2014, 01:19 PM
Well that sucks.

ArlingtonTexan
03-31-2014, 01:22 PM
Manning has been released.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/03/31/texans-cut-danieal-manning/

so now the Texans safety position is probably the cheapest in the league in terms of costs after being one of the most expensive last year.

The Pencil Neck
03-31-2014, 01:24 PM
Well.

Damn.

I was hoping we'd be able to retain him.

thunderkyss
03-31-2014, 01:27 PM
I wonder what they "need" the money for.

ObsiWan
03-31-2014, 01:34 PM
Well.

Damn.

I was hoping we'd be able to retain him.
Me too. I wonder how much they asked him to reduce his salary..??

DerekLee1
03-31-2014, 01:45 PM
I wonder what they "need" the money for.

They're thinking ahead to JJ's massive contract next year. Or they may be negotiating for that extension now and are clearing future space to do so. It's almost certainly going to be the biggest defensive contract in NFL history.

The Pencil Neck
03-31-2014, 01:58 PM
Me too. I wonder how much they asked him to reduce his salary..??

I thought someone said something about him being asked to take a salary similar to the Clemons contract.

bah007
03-31-2014, 02:49 PM
Sooo...

FS - Clemons, Lewis
SS - Swearinger, Keo/Pleasant

How does everybody feel about that?

JB
03-31-2014, 03:50 PM
Sooo...

FS - Clemons, Lewis
SS - Swearinger, Keo/Pleasant

How does everybody feel about that?

We've had much worse.... :swatter:

thunderkyss
03-31-2014, 04:05 PM
Sooo...

FS - Clemons, Lewis
SS - Swearinger, Keo/Pleasant

How does everybody feel about that?

I don't know what to think. If we're talking a Tampa Two.... I don't have heartburn just yet.

If RAC is going to run his safeties like Wade did in a lot of man coverage, I don't have any less heartburn.

bash
03-31-2014, 04:09 PM
Not a fan of Keo, hes a straight up Box Safety and against top teams, when they see him in the line up they'll know to audible out of the run or change to play action.