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thunderkyss
03-18-2014, 01:18 PM
If the Texans got your QB in this draft... regardless who it is. If you want Bridgewater, imagine we got Bridgewater. If you want Connor Shaw, imagine we managed to get Connor Shaw.

Would you be ok with him competing with Matt Schaub for the starting position?

badboy
03-18-2014, 01:23 PM
If the Texans got your QB in this draft... regardless who it is. If you want Bridgewater, imagine we got Bridgewater. If you want Connor Shaw, imagine we managed to get Connor Shaw.

Would you be ok with him competing with Matt Schaub for the starting position?No, I have Garoppolo in 2nd round and think MS is psychologically kaput. We should take any offer Raiders or Browns offer. We have OBrien and a QB coach to train up rookie & Keenum.

DocBar
03-18-2014, 01:34 PM
:overreact::goodpost::barman:

IDEXAN
03-18-2014, 01:37 PM
Why do a lot of people seem to have like such a personal grudge mentality towards Matt Schaub ? OK, he had a terrible year and had a lot to do with us going 2-14, but some of you act as if it was all because of intentional acts by Schaub as if he actually wanted to sabotage our whole season ?
I doubt that he's around this Fall, but if the new HC surprises us, maybe even shocks us with a plan that includes Schaub this Fall, I'm with the coach.

Wolf
03-18-2014, 01:42 PM
Matt Schuab is Brad Lidge 2.0

Thorn
03-18-2014, 01:43 PM
I'm sick of Schaub. I want him gone. Period.

Hervoyel
03-18-2014, 01:45 PM
No, I have Garoppolo in 2nd round and think MS is psychologically kaput. We should take any offer Raiders or Browns offer. We have OBrien and a QB coach to train up rookie & Keenum.

See, I'm here. I think that Matt Schaub is profoundly broken the way Jake Delhomme was broken. He's caught in a decision-making-death-spiral from which almost no one ever truly escapes without a complete change of scenery (and even then it's rare). This is Brad Lidge territory. This is time to move on territory. I don't trust Matt anymore. I think that's where the Texans were about the time Kubiak got fired and Keenum got told he would not be sitting down again barring injury.

Where they are today I don't know but we'd have to be drafting the successful clone of Troy Aikman for me to be OK with keeping Matt Schaub around. If anyone can get us out of his contract (I'd literally give them a 6th or 7th rounder to take him) then we should jump at that chance.

IDEXAN
03-18-2014, 01:48 PM
Matt Schuab is Brad Lidge 2.0
You do know Lidge came back and helped the Phillies win a WS ?

infantrycak
03-18-2014, 01:50 PM
You do know Lidge came back and helped the Phillies win a WS ?

But he left Houston to get his mojo back and it was probably the best result for both.

Playoffs
03-18-2014, 01:51 PM
http://jcsconsulting.com/images/uploads/gamification-meme-4.jpg

Marshall
03-18-2014, 01:53 PM
If the Texans got your QB in this draft... regardless who it is. If you want Bridgewater, imagine we got Bridgewater. If you want Connor Shaw, imagine we managed to get Connor Shaw.

Would you be ok with him competing with Matt Schaub for the starting position?

Yes. For the right price. Otherwise I'm fine with Keenum and Yates.

Blake
03-18-2014, 01:53 PM
I am indifferent.

On one hand I am ready to move on from Schaub. Just deal with his dead money now, instead of letting it linger for another year and then still dealing with his dead money.

On the other hand there is always the chance that Schaub can rebound from his horrendeous season in O'Briens offense with some new coaching. He is a vet who in theory could come in day 1 and really put some defenses on their heels.

But at the end of the day I have to think that the best option is to go with a new QB, let him get the experience of playing an entire season, while getting the cap in hand for a run in 2015.

ObsiWan
03-18-2014, 01:55 PM
Matt Schuab is Brad Lidge 2.0

Matt Schaub prays that you're right.
Lidge went on to the World Series with the Phillies while the Astros stayed at home and watched. He also made the All-Star team and was in the running for MVP once he got to Philly.

Yeah, I'm thinking Schaub hopes you're right.

Marshall
03-18-2014, 01:56 PM
You do know Lidge came back and helped the Phillies win a WS ?
~Don't let facts get in the way of a good grudge. Once you've made a judgment, especially when you're wrong, STICK TO IT!!!~

PapaL
03-18-2014, 02:02 PM
Sometimes a change of scenery/staff is what a guy needs. I don't see the harm in him competing, besides to the fanbase. Heck it could buy "the rookie" a month to better learn the system, playbook, and tendency of his teammates.

WolverineFan
03-18-2014, 02:07 PM
Depends on who it is. If it's Bridgewater then cut Schaub. If it's anyone else (Bortles, Garoppolo, Mettenberger, Murray, Fales, etc.) then keep him or replace him with a stop-gap vet. I'm not really into the whole throwing rookie QB's to the wolves thing. Bridgewater and Murray are the only guys that I think are mentally ready to start next year.

ObsiWan
03-18-2014, 02:14 PM
Related question:

If O'Brien thinks he can restore Schaub to a 2009 level of play and brings him (Schaub) back, does this make O'Brien an id!ot in your eyes?

_King_
03-18-2014, 02:15 PM
For the purposes of this thread...Yes, because I believe the guy I want is a franchise guy so if keeping MS meant we got that guy, why would I not be ok with it?

But...IRL, I really am just going to trust what OB does at this point...Well, not so much "trust", but I won't be so critical of it. Willing to just wait and see.

Hervoyel
03-18-2014, 02:20 PM
Related question:

If O'Brien thinks he can restore Schaub to a 2009 level of play and brings him (Schaub) back, does this make O'Brien an id!ot in your eyes?

Related Answer:

No, not at all. It just means we see things differently and I'll be pulling for him to be right. If it doesn't work out that way however and if we all watch Matt pick right up where he left off then I'll be terribly annoyed that what appeared obvious to so many of us wasn't seen by OB. I'll be frustrated because yet another year goes by and some of our better players don't have many of those left.

Ryan
03-18-2014, 02:25 PM
Related question:

If O'Brien thinks he can restore Schaub to a 2009 level of play and brings him (Schaub) back, does this make O'Brien an id!ot in your eyes?


No, I think that'd be the right thing to do. I'm not most people though, and O'Brien is really gonna have to sell this to the fanbase. It can't be coming from McNair or anyone else.

_King_
03-18-2014, 02:27 PM
Related question:

If O'Brien thinks he can restore Schaub to a 2009 level of play and brings him (Schaub) back, does this make O'Brien an id!ot in your eyes?

No...

I liked Schaub when I went and saw him in that first camp. I was a big backer of Schaub...

But over the years I saw some things I didn't like. Some physical limitations that I don't think he could overcome based on the system he was in. I thought Kubiak should have given Matt more freedom. I thought Kubiak should have done some things differently with personnel over there. His play calling at times.

I'm a big fan of the ZBS system itself, but I think at times kubiak was too 'tight'.

I honestly believe that Keenum was too amped for Kubiak and that was part of the reason he collapsed on the sideline in that Colts game. The fake spike before half that led to the Dre TD I think was just too much for Kubiak to handle.

I think he naturally wanted pace...He liked the slow methodical approach and he molded Schaub into that guy.

Maybe Schaub is too far gone...I don't know...IF OB thinks there's something there I'd actually be ok with that. To at least let it play out.

Marshall
03-18-2014, 02:31 PM
No, I think that'd be the right thing to do. I'm not most people though, and O'Brien is really gonna have to sell this to the fanbase. It can't be coming from McNair or anyone else.

A four game winning streak is all most fans would need to jump back on the bandwagon. But some would complain if we won the superbowl with him.

infantrycak
03-18-2014, 02:35 PM
I honestly believe that Keenum was too amped for Kubiak and that was part of the reason he collapsed on the sideline in that Colts game. The fake spike before half that led to the Dre TD I think was just too much for Kubiak to handle.

Kubiak designed the play and either sent it in or approved it. Why would it be too much to handle?

Honoring Earl 34
03-18-2014, 02:41 PM
Kubiak designed the play and either sent it in or approved it. Why would it be too much to handle?

I think Kubiak's loyalty to Schaub is what got him .

I think Kubes was pulling for Matt so hard he got twisted .

HOU-TEX
03-18-2014, 02:41 PM
I'm just meh on the whole QB situation, period. I don't think our QB solution's out there this year. I'd keep Schaub if he was willing to redo his deal, but there's no reason whatsoever he'd do such a thing.

In the end, I think we're QB-screwed for the next year or two

Dutchrudder
03-18-2014, 02:48 PM
Schaub is a waste of capspace. Sign Vince Young, Jason Campbell, Matt Cassel or some other vet min QB to take the snaps/hits for a season if that's all you need. I'm sure they would be happy to do it. Let Teddy or Blake or whoever sit for a while and learn the offense for a season, then try to win the division in 2015.

_King_
03-18-2014, 02:50 PM
Kubiak designed the play and either sent it in or approved it. Why would it be too much to handle?

Because it was an on field call to run it. I remember Dre talking about it and he said there was a signal that he gave Case and Case gave him the go ahead or something like that.

Not saying Kubiak didn't know it was coming...but I think that whole first half was like a shot of adrenaline and I think it culminated with an extra caffeine shot in that two minute drill with Case taking off and running and then throwing the fake spike to cap off the half for us.

OzzO
03-18-2014, 02:56 PM
I'm just meh on the whole QB situation, period. I don't think our QB solution's out there this year. I'd keep Schaub if he was willing to redo his deal, but there's no reason whatsoever he'd do such a thing.

In the end, I think we're QB-screwed for the next year or two

Seconded on the bolded. If he wasn't so overpriced, probably wouldn't be such an issue.

The Pencil Neck
03-18-2014, 02:56 PM
If OB thinks he can salvage Schaub or at least, use him as a stopgap, then I'm fine with that but he better be right about it or he's going to take a major credibility hit.

I'd prefer Schaub be converted into some other asset(s).

I'd prefer OB go with Yates, Keenum, and a draft pick, and work some sort of miracle with that. I'd prefer OB saying, "You know, I'm going to take control of that QB room and I prefer having younger guys so I can create the culture I want instead of bringing in someone from another culture."

I'd prefer Schaub be gone.

But like I said, I'll root for the best if he decides to keep him. So. I don't have any options to click in the poll because I don't really think either one sums up my feelings.

Hervoyel
03-18-2014, 02:57 PM
Schaub is a waste of capspace. Sign Vince Young, Jason Campbell, Matt Cassel or some other vet min QB to take the snaps/hits for a season if that's all you need. I'm sure they would be happy to do it. Let Teddy or Blake or whoever sit for a while and learn the offense for a season, then try to win the division in 2015.



I got it! Sign Vince Young and then draft Johnny Football first overall.


http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc272/Hervoyel/1292552240467.jpg

infantrycak
03-18-2014, 03:01 PM
I got it! Sign Vince Young and then draft Johnny Football first overall.


http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc272/Hervoyel/1292552240467.jpg

LOL - and keep Keenum as the other backup. It will be fan on fan violence of epic proportions.

http://beatboredom.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/armageddon.jpg

PapaL
03-18-2014, 03:08 PM
LOL - and keep Keenum as the other backup. It will be fan on fan violence of epic proportions.

http://beatboredom.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/armageddon.jpg

I don't know how many fans could handle that. The MBs and talk radio would be insufferable.

Hervoyel
03-18-2014, 03:08 PM
I have this mental picture of Chris Farley and George Wendt in Texans gear saying "Fans of Texans nation and all Texas universities must band together, to ensure that such a conflagration never takes place"

I want it to happen. I'm convinced it must happen. think about it. The Houston Texans are in the unique position to make sure that THE epic battle of Texas University man-crush QB's takes place. They can pick all three of them up (already got one actually) and let chaos break loose!

http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc272/Hervoyel/untitled_zps89b7eb35.png

thunderkyss
03-18-2014, 03:16 PM
Sometimes a change of scenery/staff is what a guy needs.

Sometimes a new coach is all that's needed. Look at Alex Smith.

Remember, we're still getting our QB (Kaepernick) of the future.

WolverineFan
03-18-2014, 03:24 PM
http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc272/Hervoyel/untitled_zps89b7eb35.png

Haha this made my day

Wolf
03-18-2014, 03:42 PM
~Don't let facts get in the way of a good grudge. Once you've made a judgment, especially when you're wrong, STICK TO IT!!!~




Not a grudge. I shouldn't have explained a little more. Infantry covered me on that

Matt is mentally beat and as we saw last year. I dont think the team has confidence in him. Houston doesn't have confidence in him. If he had the mental makeup of a QB that could take over a game and beat you with his arm. I might be willing to think twice, but Matt's not that type of QB. Hasn't been the same since his 34ish Qb Rating in the Pro bowl.

#kubiakbelievesinyou was alive and well with Matt.
I also think a change of scenery would do him good. I can't imagine if he is in NRG
Stadium and throws his first pick and how the fans would react

Thorn
03-18-2014, 04:12 PM
I got it! Sign Vince Young and then draft Johnny Football first overall.


LOL - and keep Keenum as the other backup. It will be fan on fan violence of epic proportions.


Yeah, but imagine the air time on all the football discussion shows on NFLN and ESPN the Texans would get!

steelbtexan
03-18-2014, 04:31 PM
Nope

kingtexan
03-18-2014, 04:34 PM
Nope

^^^ This

noxiousdog
03-18-2014, 04:43 PM
I am indifferent.

On one hand I am ready to move on from Schaub. Just deal with his dead money now, instead of letting it linger for another year and then still dealing with his dead money.

Concur.

amazing80
03-18-2014, 05:50 PM
LOL - and keep Keenum as the other backup. It will be fan on fan violence of epic proportions.

http://beatboredom.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/armageddon.jpg

Sadly there are people out there that would love this to happen......

http://fc05.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2013/276/0/c/i_don_t_want_to_live_on_this_planet_anymore__by_ti redorangecat-d6p2v9g.jpg

TheMatrix31
03-18-2014, 06:06 PM
The MBs and talk radio would be insufferable.

Quite a change from how it's been, lol.

Double Barrel
03-18-2014, 06:20 PM
I have this mental picture of Chris Farley and George Wendt in Texans gear saying "Fans of Texans nation and all Texas universities must band together, to ensure that such a conflagration never takes place"

I want it to happen. I'm convinced it must happen. think about it. The Houston Texans are in the unique position to make sure that THE epic battle of Texas University man-crush QB's takes place. They can pick all three of them up (already got one actually) and let chaos break loose!

http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc272/Hervoyel/untitled_zps89b7eb35.png

LMAO!!! As an imaginary scenario, I love it!

However, as reality, I think I'd start paintballing every Sunday during football season.

Showtime100
03-18-2014, 06:39 PM
I voted no simply because he is not in the Texans future no matter how you slice it. Let him go and wish him the best. I would bet that I would really like Schaub if I had the chance to have dinner with him or whatever, no grudge here. I want to do what is best for the team and keeping him around is a waste of both the Texans time and Schaub's time.

The Lidge analogy is a pretty good one.

thunderkyss
03-18-2014, 07:20 PM
I voted yes.

Something wasn't right last season, wasn't just Matt. Other QBs got off to a really bad start last season (didn't set any records or anything), Matt wasn't given an opportunity to work it out... to save face.

I'm not a Schaub fan. I'm not a Schaub hater, Like TexansBill says, it's the name on the front of the Jersey I root for.

I want to win, I want the Texans to win & I believe our best shot is a QB who has won games in the past, or a rookie who can beat that guy out in an honest open QB battle.

Even the most devout Matt Schaub hater has to admit, if he's honest, Matt is the best veteran QB available to us at the moment.

On top of that, I'm very interested to see Matt Schaub with an OC & HC like Bill O'Brien. If he brings that pedal to the metal, no quarter given, New England offensive mindset to Houston, we might be in store for some pretty exciting football.

No, I don't think there's a chance that OB is going to turn Schaub into Tom Brady, I don't think he has to. We've got Duane Brown, & Andre Johnson, & DeAndre Hopkins, & Arian Foster, & Jj Watt, & Brian Cushing. There is no reason for Schaub to have to put this team on his itty-bitty beedy eyed shoulders.

Now this is with the caveat that they draft our QB of the future. For me it's McCarron or Murray... but I won't be upset if they draft Bridgewater with 1-1, or Bortles, or Manziel..... or if they draft Tom Savage in the 5th or Garoppolo in the bottom of the first.

Now if they draft Logan Thomas in the 6th & only Logan Thomas, I'll be upset. But I won't say gripe about it unless he busts... if they draft a better prospect next season I'll forget about the flyer in 2014.

Lastly, if you look at the concepts OB talks about in his clinics (http://www.battleredblog.com/2014/3/6/5476912/the-bill-obrien-prototype-what-houstons-new-head-honcho-expects-from) you'll see it's very similar to what Schaub was doing under Kubiak. Granted, getting a QB familiar with OB & the system he ran/runs would have been ideal... Matt Cassel, Ryan Mallet, Brian Hoyer..... but it makes no sense to do it on anyone else's terms than ours, when we've got the next best thing (Schaub).

There is absolutely no way I would ever allow Matt Schaub to be on the roster of the team I love with a $14M cap hit... but I wouldn't put it past McNair. This will have no effect on our rebuilding efforts. We're not going to be spending money on any big named FAs...... doesn't make sense. We're going to draft as best we can. Next season there will be more cap room to add choice FAs to another strong draft class & make some noise in the NFL.

Texan4Ever
03-18-2014, 07:26 PM
Before I vote, is it financially "better" to keep him or to cut him?

thunderkyss
03-18-2014, 07:28 PM
Before I vote, is it financially "better" to keep him or to cut him?

It depends on how you want to spin it.

Seegara
03-18-2014, 08:07 PM
Schaub might not be so bad without Kubiak's heel on his Adam's apple. He could audible out of a play if he saw the opponents were laying for it. Trade him if it's possible, but if not, it might be better to keep him on the roster for salary cap reasons.

Goatcheese
03-18-2014, 10:03 PM
I wouldn't mind keeping Schaub if his contract and our cap were compatible. He's lost his confidence and what mobility he had, but there's still a lot of knowledge he can impart on a rookie.

Unfortunately, carrying his cap figure means this team is going to be filling holes with cast offs and bargain bin gambles. That's not a season I'm excited to watch.

aussie_texan
03-18-2014, 10:06 PM
competition is good for everyone!

CloakNNNdagger
03-19-2014, 12:05 AM
No!!! There's an old saying. You can't make the same mistake twice. The second time you make it, it's no longer a mistake, it's a choice.

Texan4Ever
03-19-2014, 12:11 AM
I wouldn't mind keeping Schaub if his contract and our cap were compatible. He's lost his confidence and what mobility he had, but there's still a lot of knowledge he can impart on a rookie.

Unfortunately, carrying his cap figure means this team is going to be filling holes with cast offs and bargain bin gambles. That's not a season I'm excited to watch.

This. Let's not forget that he's had two solid seasons and had a major down year. Eli, Luck, RGIII, and many more had down years as well. Perhaps a change in coaching staff may help him (but fan's booing him certainly didn't help).

beerlover
03-19-2014, 12:23 AM
Voted Yes, because my QB is developmental in need of mentoring, if Matt could agree to that plus a more cap friendly contract.

Lucky
03-19-2014, 12:33 AM
I wanted a third option - Yes, but only if the Texans also sign Mark "Buttfumble" Sanchez.

Geez.

Norg
03-19-2014, 01:39 AM
just ask yourself can matt schaub stay healthy for 16+ games and lead the the Texans to the SB ...?????? rather it be this year or in 2015 ..????


if the answer is no and the % is highly it will be NO cus he has not done it yet then whats the point in keeping him ..???

how about dis we get TWO !! QB's in the draft anyone down with that ..????

Marshall
03-19-2014, 04:34 AM
Before I vote, is it financially "better" to keep him or to cut him?

Cutting him saves $3,937,500 against the cap. This is his salary of $10M and his Roster bonus of $937,500 minus his remaining post 2014 signing bonus of $7M.

Designating him as a June 1st cut saves $10,937,500 against the 2014 cap, but costs $7M against the 2015 cap so it essentially just moves $7M in cap space from the 2015 cap back to the 2014 cap.

Financially, you then have to offset that with his replacement.

For more details, see:
http://www.overthecap.com/cap.php?Name=Matt%20Schaub&Position=QB&Team=Texans

thunderkyss
03-19-2014, 07:22 AM
Unfortunately, carrying his cap figure means this team is going to be filling holes with cast offs and bargain bin gambles. That's not a season I'm excited to watch.

If you think that we're not going to be signing any mid-level free agents this offseason, what are you missing out on?

If we have a strong draft this offseason, save our money, cut Schaub next season, add a second strong draft class & your mid-level FAs, we're better off, no?

thunderkyss
03-19-2014, 07:23 AM
Cutting him saves $3,937,500 against the cap. This is his salary of $10M and his Roster bonus of $937,500 minus his remaining post 2014 signing bonus of $7M.

Designating him as a June 1st cut saves $10,937,500 against the 2014 cap, but costs $7M against the 2015 cap so it essentially just moves $7M in cap space from the 2015 cap back to the 2014 cap.

Financially, you then have to offset that with his replacement.

For more details, see:
http://www.overthecap.com/cap.php?Name=Matt%20Schaub&Position=QB&Team=Texans

But if he plays this year, we don't get the $3.9M savings against the cap (which we most likely won't be using anyway). Make him a June 1, 2015 cut & save $14M next year & $16M in 2016.

Marshall
03-19-2014, 07:38 AM
But if he plays this year, we don't get the $3.9M savings against the cap (which we most likely won't be using anyway). Make him a June 1, 2015 cut & save $10M next year & $16M in 2016.

If he plays this year under his existing contract, he makes an additional $10,937,500 above his pro rate share of the signing bonus ($3.5M). Then making him a June 1st cut next year splits his remaining $7M signing bonus between 2015 and 2016.

While this is possible, it is not optimal.

First, Schaub is not worth the additional ~$11M for one season if he's not at least borderline elite. I think he could still be, but it's becoming much less likely with every season his production falls.

Second, deferring cap space hits are rarely good for anything other than putting a team near the top over the top for a brief time because it borrows from the future.

One thing which often gets overlooked is the cap space saved by eliminating the salary and Roster bonus payments in 2014, 2015 and 2016. We get hung up on the signing bonus shenanigans because of the June 1st designation.

thunderkyss
03-19-2014, 08:01 AM
Second, deferring cap space hits are rarely good for anything other than putting a team near the top over the top for a brief time because it borrows from the future.


It depends on what you're looking for. McNair stated he wanted a veteran QB on the roster, for whatever his reasoning. Most of us knew before FA started that Schaub would most likely be the best available & so far it has played out that way.

So what's next?

We can cut Schaub sign Vick (or whoever is left)... the $4M you saved for 2014 is gone. You're probably going to get the same net result from the QB position.



One thing which often gets overlooked is the cap space saved by eliminating the salary and Roster bonus payments in 2014, 2015 and 2016. We get hung up on the signing bonus shenanigans because of the June 1st designation.

I've not once overlooked it & it's always been part of may argument.

Cut him now:
2014: $4M
2015: $17M
2016: $19M

June 1st:
2014: $10M
2015: $10M
2016: $19M

June 1, 2015:
2014: $0 (or whatever you negotiate through pay cut)
2015: $14M
2016: $16M

What I think people don't take into account is that the cap goes up in 2015 & 2016... & that the cap went up unexpectedly for 2014 (which might change everything).

Everybody would have been "ecstatic" if we had $27M in cap room this offseason.... well next year we've got that without cutting anyone (of course we still have to fill out 2014's roster to say for sure). & we're already $77M under the 2016 cap. That includes a $17M cap hit for Schaub in 2015 & $19M in 2016.

Marshall
03-19-2014, 08:21 AM
It depends on what you're looking for. McNair stated he wanted a veteran QB on the roster, for whatever his reasoning. Most of us knew before FA started that Schaub would most likely be the best available & so far it has played out that way.

So what's next?

We can cut Schaub sign Vick (or whoever is left)... the $4M you saved for 2014 is gone. You're probably going to get the same net result from the QB position.




I've not once overlooked it & it's always been part of may argument.

Cut him now:
2014: $4M ($3,937,500)
2015: $17M ($13.5M)
2016: $19M ($15.5M)

June 1st:
2014: $10M ($10,937,500)
2015: $10M ($6.5M)
2016: $19M ($15.5M)

Cut 2015:
2014: ($0)
2015: ($6.5M)
2916: ($15.5M)

June 1, 2015:
2014: $0 (or whatever you negotiate through pay cut)
2015: $14M ($10M)
2016: $16M ($12M)

What I think people don't take into account is that the cap goes up in 2015 & 2016... & that the cap went up unexpectedly for 2014 (which might change everything).

Everybody would have been "ecstatic" if we had $27M in cap room this offseason.... well next year we've got that without cutting anyone (of course we still have to fill out 2014's roster to say for sure). & we're already $77M under the 2016 cap. That includes a $17M cap hit for Schaub in 2015 & $19M in 2016.

Corrections in BOLD.
This is just cap savings for Schaub and cap increases have no effect on how Schaub's contract affects the cap.

handswarmer
03-19-2014, 08:27 AM
What would you gain by signing Mark Sanchez over Matt Schaub?


I would take Schaub in a heartbeat

thunderkyss
03-19-2014, 08:31 AM
Corrections in BOLD.


Then they've got it wrong at over the cap (http://overthecap.com/calculator/?Team=Texans). If we cut him now, eat all the dead money in 2014..... $17M comes off our projected cap for 2015. $19M comes off for 2016. His salary + the prorated bonus is already calculated in our future cap.



This is just cap savings for Schaub and cap increases have no effect on how Schaub's contract affects the cap.

Increases in the salary cap increases how much money we have available to build our team, which is the whole object of cutting Schaub.

Thorn
03-19-2014, 08:37 AM
What would you gain by signing Mark Sanchez over Matt Schaub?


I would take Schaub in a heartbeat

How you doing handswarmer?

I've got to ask, because I'm far to lazy to actually find out for myself, what is the scuttlebutt about Kubiak's signing now that it's been a while? What do yall think he will do for you? Was this a good thing for yall? thanks.

Marshall
03-19-2014, 09:18 AM
Then they've got it wrong at over the cap (http://overthecap.com/calculator/?Team=Texans). If we cut him now, eat all the dead money in 2014..... $17M comes off our projected cap for 2015. $19M comes off for 2016. His salary + the prorated bonus is already calculated in our future cap.

Increases in the salary cap increases how much money we have available to build our team, which is the whole object of cutting Schaub.

You're misunderstanding that column. It presumes the contract is in place through that year. Therefore, 2015 presumes $13.5M in salary and roster bonus plus $3.5M prorated signing bonus for a total of $17M and 2016 presumes 15.5M in salary and roster bonus plus $3.5 M in prorated signing bonus for a total of $19M. Earlier Cuts reduce the amount in that column by the accelerated accounting for the signing bonus depending on the type of cut.

Now increases to the Cap Limit do not affect the amount of cap savings by Schaub's contract, it does affect the management of the cap space by reducing the need to get under the cap.

handswarmer
03-19-2014, 09:33 AM
How you doing handswarmer?

I've got to ask, because I'm far to lazy to actually find out for myself, what is the scuttlebutt about Kubiak's signing now that it's been a while? What do yall think he will do for you? Was this a good thing for yall? thanks.

I have been well, thank you for asking. Lots of snow up here this year so I was pretty busy plowing= made some serious coinage...LOL

Kubiak has kept a real low profile; hasn't been seen in the media since his introductory press conference. But I think he is pretty excited to work with Torrey Smith, Steve Smith from the Panthers, Dennis Pitta, Ray Rice and Joe Flacco. it will be interesting to see what sort of offense develops.

I posted a thread about Owen Daniels and it got moved because he is no longer a Texan...no biggie.

I am looking forward to our season.

But I do believe that Schaub is better than Sanchez...any day of the week.

thunderkyss
03-19-2014, 09:41 AM
You're misunderstanding that column. It presumes the contract is in place through that year. Therefore, 2015 presumes $13.5M in salary and roster bonus plus $3.5M prorated signing bonus for a total of $17M and 2016 presumes 15.5M in salary and roster bonus plus $3.5 M in prorated signing bonus for a total of $19M. Earlier Cuts reduce the amount in that column by the accelerated accounting for the signing bonus depending on the type of cut.


I'm not misunderstanding it, that's how I see it. According to overthecap we currently have $27M available of the 2015 cap. If we cut Schaub & account for all the dead money in 2014, that number goes up by $17M, we won't have to pay his salary, any roster bonus, or the signing bonus allocation.

Cutting Schaub & eating all the dead money in 2014 frees up $17M of our 2015 cap & $19M of our 2016 cap.


Now increases to the Cap Limit do not affect the amount of cap savings by Schaub's contract, it does affect the management of the cap space by reducing the need to get under the cap.

That's what I said.

People think we're cap strapped & have to clear all of Matt's future allocations, that's not true. If we thought we would need $50M to do whatever we thought we needed to do in 2015, & cutting Matt Schaub to clear that $17M off our books was going to get us there, we can now do the same thing by making him a June 1st cut saving $7M with the extra $10M we got from the Thursday night TV deal.

$17M is $17M doesn't really matter where it came from.

Would it be better to have $60M... sure. But if you thought we were in good shape with $50M, how can we be worse off with the same $50M + the best QB available in FA?

I understand people want to get away from Matt Schaub, but to go from Schaub to Sanchez, or Vick, or Matt McGloin isn't about "cap management" it's about hate.

We wanted to cut Matt Schaub this year to save $4M ($3.9m). The NFL just gave us $10M so that's not necessary anymore.

In this thread, I suggest you also get the QB you want in the draft & still "it makes more sense" to cut Schaub? I don't think so.

You've got your cap space, you've got you QB of the future, you can't name a better replacement for Schaub & you still want him gone?? (I don't mean you specifically)... something other than "what's best for the team" is guiding your decision making. Some folks are being honest about it & that's cool. Some guys are hiding behind whatever.... so whatever.

infantrycak
03-19-2014, 07:33 PM
I'm not misunderstanding it, that's how I see it.

You are doing it correctly. Marshall has found a new way to confuse the issue. The projected cap hit in 2016, etc. should not be offset by dead money paid now. It is all removed from the cap that year v. as it stands now if he was retained through that year.

Texan_Bill
03-19-2014, 09:34 PM
Meh! I'm not sure about Bill O'Brien's style of offense is.

So, there can be a lot said for keeping Schaub for a year while the Texans 1st or 2nd round QB pick sits and learns.


****************

On another note, I so dread this season. This team won't go 2-14, but it already has enough talent and leaders to go 8-8.

****************

Apparently the Texans are good with 8-8


:gun:

DocBar
03-19-2014, 10:40 PM
Meh! I'm not sure about Bill O'Brien's style of offense is.

So, there can be a lot said for keeping Schaub for a year while the Texans 1st or 2nd round QB pick sits and learns.
****************

On another note, I so dread this season. This team won't go 2-14, but it already has enough talent and leaders to go 8-8.

****************

Apparently the Texans are good with 8-8


:gun:The more I consider things, the more I'm coming around to this line of thought. CnD's opinion on the degenerative affect of the lis franc injury keeps me in check, though. It has proven spot on.

Norg
03-20-2014, 12:13 AM
this will be a pretty Meh season so IDK

the best we can hope for is to over achive and punch our ticket for a PS spot rather that be DIV or WC spot


in reality im thinking rather 8-8 or 6-10


so IDK if we keep schaub has long has we draft his replacement

steelbtexan
03-20-2014, 12:50 AM
The more I consider things, the more I'm coming around to this line of thought. CnD's opinion on the degenerative affect of the lis franc injury keeps me in check, though. It has proven spot on.

It's the off season, people forget, some deny.

But C-N-D's diagnosis was spot on and I haven't seen him change his stance on Schaub's prognosis. Until I see this it's time for Schaub to move on. Even if it's for pennies on the dollar.

2012Champs
03-20-2014, 08:52 AM
Why do a lot of people seem to have like such a personal grudge mentality towards Matt Schaub ? OK, he had a terrible year and had a lot to do with us going 2-14, but some of you act as if it was all because of intentional acts by Schaub as if he actually wanted to sabotage our whole season ?
I doubt that he's around this Fall, but if the new HC surprises us, maybe even shocks us with a plan that includes Schaub this Fall, I'm with the coach.



Schaub was certainly part of the reason we won 2 games and responsible for some losses too. Case on the other hand just losses :specnatz:

IlliniJen
03-20-2014, 01:37 PM
No. Schaub is in Carcosa now. Nothing can be done for him, he's a broken man.

ObsiWan
03-20-2014, 04:22 PM
No. Schaub is in Carcosa now. Nothing can be done for him, he's a broken man.
the Hotel in Mayalsia?
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/9/94/King%27s_house.jpg/240px-King%27s_house.jpg
:D

wildroot
03-20-2014, 06:54 PM
I'm all about letting the coach do whatever he thinks will work. Schaub, CK, trade for a vet, rookie draft pick....we hired the man so lets let him do his thing see what happens.

Goldensilence
03-20-2014, 07:19 PM
Good comparison on Delhomme. I just don't believe we'll see circa 2009 Matt Schaub again.

Only way I'd consider keeping Matt on this roster is a severe pay cut and understanding he'll be able to compete for the starting spot, but things will be unlikely to turn out him starting based on last year's disastrous season

b0ng
03-21-2014, 02:08 AM
Sadly there are people out there that would love this to happen......

http://fc05.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2013/276/0/c/i_don_t_want_to_live_on_this_planet_anymore__by_ti redorangecat-d6p2v9g.jpg

Are you kidding? It would be the most amazing meta trolling of the fanbase of all time. Hell it'll break most of the football fans into discernable "factions" in Houston and they may even prowl the streets at night looking for trouble Jets and Sharks style, with musical numbers and everything. Manziel's gang could be signing autographs on Westheimer whilst the VYFC could be selling sausage on the streets while the Keenum crowd hangs out over on Cullen Blvd furiously poring over stat sheets and comparisons to once great QB's of yore with their cries of "He's the one!".

The QB battle to end all training camp QB battles.