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Texans Pride
03-16-2014, 06:14 PM
http://houston.cbslocal.com/2014/03/16/source-texans-and-raiders-in-serious-trade-talks-for-matt-schaub/


HOUSTON (CBS HOUSTON) – The Houston Texans and Oakland Raiders have been in serious talks about a trade involving Matt Schaub heading to Oakland, a source has told SportsRadio 610.

SportsRadio 610 learned that the Texans are trying to make the deal and eventually want a quarterback that can step in an play right away in 2014, whether that is in the draft or in a trade.

The Texans are looking to ship out Matt Schaub and his $10.5 million in salary cap cost to the Raiders, who have $59.9 million in cap space, and free up more cap room for their own ability to grab someone else in free agency or via trade.

Showtime100
03-16-2014, 06:18 PM
I guess it's still where QB's careers go to die.

In all seriousness if this happens I wish him the best. I'd be interested to see what the Raiders will give in return.

Playoffs
03-16-2014, 06:19 PM
http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2312899#post2312899

Nawzer
03-16-2014, 06:52 PM
We'll probably get a 2024 conditional 8th round pick for Schaub.

mussop
03-16-2014, 07:10 PM
Please let this be true!!!!please let this be true!!!!please let this be true!!!!please let this be true!!!!please let this be true!!!!please let this be true!!!!please let this be true!!!!please let this be true!!!!please let this be true!!!!please let this be true!!!!please let this be true!!!!please let this be true!!!!please let this be true!!!!please let this be true!!!!please let this be true!!!!please let this be true!!!!please let this be true!!!!please let this be true!!!!please let this be true!!!!please let this be true!!!!please let this be true!!!!please let this be true!!!!please let this be true!!!!please let this be true!!!!please let this be true!!!!please let this be true!!!!please let this be true!!!!please let this be true!!!!please let this be true!!!!please let this be true!!!!please let this be true!!!!please let this be true!!!!please let this be true!!!!please let this be true!!!!please let this be true!!!!please let this be true!!!!please let this be true!!!!please let this be true!!!!please let this be true!!!!please let this be true!!!!please let this be true!!!!please let this be true!!!!please let this be true!!!!please let this be true!!!!please let this be true!!!!please let this be true!!!!please let this be true!!!!please let this be true!!!!please let this be true!!!!please let this be true!!!!

gg no re
03-16-2014, 07:17 PM
I'd settle for a straight-up swap of matt schaub for mark davis's hair stylist.

ObsiWan
03-16-2014, 07:21 PM
So how many draft picks are we going to have to give up to get Oakland to take Matt S. off our hands?
:kitten:



...oh don't gimme that look; you know you were thinking it.
:D

False Start
03-16-2014, 07:27 PM
Schaub for a pick in the 6th. :cool:

LikeMike
03-16-2014, 07:30 PM
We basically have no leverage here. Everybody know that Schaub has played his last game for us. And so far no other team seems to be interested. It would be great, if we could get something in return. If it is anything more than a 4th rounder IŽd be shocked - and IŽd do that trade in a heartbeat.

_King_
03-16-2014, 07:32 PM
Mcgloin still under contract with the raiders? Any chance he's part of a trade?

Showtime100
03-16-2014, 07:34 PM
We basically have no leverage here. Everybody know that Schaub has played his last game for us. And so far no other team seems to be interested. It would be great, if we could get something in return. If it is anything more than a 4th rounder IŽd be shocked - and IŽd do that trade in a heartbeat.

I wouldn't go that far. It's clear we have a QB they want (if this story is true). He might be history here, but one man's garbage could be another man's gold.

_King_
03-16-2014, 07:36 PM
We basically have no leverage here. Everybody know that Schaub has played his last game for us. And so far no other team seems to be interested. It would be great, if we could get something in return. If it is anything more than a 4th rounder IŽd be shocked - and IŽd do that trade in a heartbeat.

I don't know about no leverage. We have no idea who's interested and who not. Lite if discussions happen that we know nothing of. Often times moved happen seemingly out if nowhere. All you need is two teams to believe Schaub makes them better. Really just one.

I have no idea what well get if anything for Matt. But I'll pretty much take anything.

steelbtexan
03-16-2014, 07:41 PM
Mcgloin still under contract with the raiders? Any chance he's part of a trade?

This is the question I asked in the other thread.

It looks like there could be a bidding was between the Raiders and the Browns. The Raiders are trying to make sure they get Schaub.

Good luck Matty Ice.

Doppelganger
03-16-2014, 07:42 PM
We basically have no leverage here. Everybody know that Schaub has played his last game for us. And so far no other team seems to be interested. It would be great, if we could get something in return. If it is anything more than a 4th rounder IŽd be shocked - and IŽd do that trade in a heartbeat.

Actually Texans do have some leverage here.

If they cut him, he hits the open market. Reports suggest if he hits the open market, he will sign with his preferred spot: Cleveland where his old buddy Shanahan Jr is the OC. Oakland is NOT his preferred spot. Thus, if Oakland wants him, they gotta make a trade for him. By leaking this story it also potentially opens up the Browns as a trade partner if they feel that the Texans may trade him to Oakland they may feel they have to make the trade for him.

If they can get anything for him it would be fantastic.

DocBar
03-16-2014, 07:43 PM
We basically have no leverage here. Everybody know that Schaub has played his last game for us. And so far no other team seems to be interested. It would be great, if we could get something in return. If it is anything more than a 4th rounder IŽd be shocked - and IŽd do that trade in a heartbeat.

I wouldn't go that far. It's clear we have a QB they want (if this story is true). He might be history here, but one man's garbage could be another man's gold. With Schaub under contract we have considerable leverage. I wonder if Schaub would rather play in Oakland or Cleveland. I also wonder if he'll aks to be cut instead of traded, ala Sproles.

_King_
03-16-2014, 07:47 PM
I'd love to get another first round somehow. Not very realistic, but nice to think about.

Goldensilence
03-16-2014, 07:56 PM
I'd love to get another first round somehow. Not very realistic, but nice to think about.

What are you smoking? The state of Colorado has gotta be interested in getting it's hads on what you are.

Based on his contract alone i'd happily give a seventh round pick for taking him. Any picks the FO can get IF this happens is icing. Complete icing.

ObsiWan
03-16-2014, 08:01 PM
This can't be happening. I mean it would take a GM with some modicum of intelligence and savvy to get one team (let alone two) remotely interested in a washed up guy "everyone knows" we're about to cut.

...and all we have is Rick Smith.

this cannot be happening.
:runaway:

Marshall
03-16-2014, 08:03 PM
This can't be happening. I mean it would take a GM with some modicum of intelligence and savvy to get one team (let alone two) remotely interested in a washed up guy "everyone knows" we're about to cut.

...and all we have is Rick Smith.

this cannot be happening.
:runaway:

Schaub is NOT the lost cause many think. He had a bad year and some teams realize that.

_King_
03-16-2014, 08:15 PM
What are you smoking? The state of Colorado has gotta be interested in getting it's hads on what you are.

Based on his contract alone i'd happily give a seventh round pick for taking him. Any picks the FO can get IF this happens is icing. Complete icing.

Can you read? Or do you just flash your head from side to Side and pick up on key words?

Btw, I wasn't saying get a first round pick for Schaub alone. You filled in the blanks how you wanted to but what I was thinking was Schaub and picks to get back into the first.

But again, i said I don't think it's realistic so not sure what the point of your post actually is.

CloakNNNdagger
03-16-2014, 08:16 PM
Schaub is NOT the lost cause many think. He had a bad year and some teams realize that.

And those 2 teams have not shown a clue re. choosing quarterbacks in how many decades?:thinking:

_King_
03-16-2014, 08:18 PM
Schaub is a lost cause but it's good that these teams don't think so.

Goldensilence
03-16-2014, 08:23 PM
Can you read? Or do you just flash your head from side to Side and pick up on key words?

Btw, I wasn't saying get a first round pick for Schaub alone. You filled in the blanks how you wanted to but what I was thinking was Schaub and picks to get back into the first.

But again, i said I don't think it's realistic so not sure what the point of your post actually is.

Ok, then perhaps you had a soliloquy about wanting another first rounder in a possible trade for Matt Schaub thread?

Thanks I suppose then for posting your Pinocchio wishing upon a star for a first rounder?

CloakNNNdagger
03-16-2014, 08:26 PM
Mcgloin still under contract with the raiders? Any chance he's part of a trade?

I don't quite understand this McGloin thing..........at 6'1", he was worse than Keenum in every stat.

Texecutioner
03-16-2014, 08:28 PM
This is great news. I thought we had no chance at actually trading Schaub where another team would take on that contract. I thought we either had to release him or keep him for another year. This would be fantastic if the Raiders are willing to waste more picks like they did on the Palmer trade. We really don't need compensation for Schaub. We just need a team that is willing to take him away so we can free up some cap room and acquire some talent at other positions. But hey, anything we can get is just icing on the cake. This trade would be benefit us a lot.

DX-TEX
03-16-2014, 08:38 PM
I don't quite understand this McGloin thing..........at 6'1", he was worse than Keenum in every stat.

Played in and knows O'Briens system Would be good for QB competition

This is great news. I thought we had no chance at actually trading Schaub where another team would take on that contract. I thought we either had to release him or keep him for another year. This would be fantastic if the Raiders are willing to waste more picks like they did on the Palmer trade. We really don't need compensation for Schaub. We just need a team that is willing to take him away so we can free up some cap room and acquire some talent at other positions. But hey, anything we can get is just icing on the cake. This trade would be benefit us a lot.

Actually benefits the raiders in a way as well. No one here is really mentioning it but the Raiders are very close to not hitting the salary cap floor. teams must spend at least 90% of the salary cap amount on a yearly basis. Right now they are still $40 million + under the cap. All the high priced free agents are gone os they have two choices:

1) Overpay a few of the FA's left who don't deserve it

2) Take on a contract or two to help make up that difference. They are interested in Schaub anyway and Houston cant be asking much.

Dutchrudder
03-16-2014, 08:39 PM
The problem with trading Schaub is that his ensuing cap hit would put us over the cap, so we will need to restructure someone to make it work. So while there may be a deal in the making, the Raiders will have to wait for the Texans to get their books in order before it can be executed.

steelbtexan
03-16-2014, 08:42 PM
Schaub is NOT the lost cause many think. He had a bad year and some teams realize that.

We shall see.

I'm actually hoping he goes to Oakland and does well.

DX-TEX
03-16-2014, 08:47 PM
The problem with trading Schaub is that his ensuing cap hit would put us over the cap, so we will need to restructure someone to make it work. So while there may be a deal in the making, the Raiders will have to wait for the Texans to get their books in order before it can be executed.

How so? Please explain.

Jackie Chiles
03-16-2014, 08:48 PM
The problem with trading Schaub is that his ensuing cap hit would put us over the cap, so we will need to restructure someone to make it work. So while there may be a deal in the making, the Raiders will have to wait for the Texans to get their books in order before it can be executed.

I was under the assumption that trading him would be exactly like cutting him as it pertains to our cap. So instead of his approx 14m cap number we would have approx 10m dead money toward him with a net savings of around 4m.

steelbtexan
03-16-2014, 08:50 PM
I was under the assumption that trading him would be exactly like cutting him as it pertains to our cap. So instead of his approx 14m cap number we would have approx 10m dead money toward him with a net savings of around 4m.

This is what I thought too.

barrett
03-16-2014, 08:52 PM
"serious" and Sports Radio 610 are not things that can be used together. They cancel each other out. This is a non story until it is a story reported by a credible news source. I think McGloin is a logical inclusion in any trade with Oakland.

infantrycak
03-16-2014, 08:54 PM
I was under the assumption that trading him would be exactly like cutting him as it pertains to our cap. So instead of his approx 14m cap number we would have approx 10m dead money toward him with a net savings of around 4m.

That is correct - net cap savings $3.625 mil.

DX-TEX
03-16-2014, 08:56 PM
Food for thought:

Could this be a controlled leak by the Texans? Skimming Twitter and Raiders MB's no raiders insider or beat writers have any knowledge or hear any rumblings of this.

We know 3 teams supposedly have interest in Schaub if he is cut: Browns, Jets, Raiders. Create a market for themselves?

ghostlight
03-16-2014, 09:00 PM
A non stor:slapfight:y--I just read this thread to find out we should not be discussing this until it unfolds!!!

Number19
03-16-2014, 09:24 PM
I don't quite understand this McGloin thing..........at 6'1", he was worse than Keenum in every stat.He's also smaller than Bridgewater. What he has going for him is that he played under OB at Penn State. He DOES know OB's offense. How good he is at executing it is another thing.

Big Lou
03-16-2014, 09:27 PM
Schaub is NOT the lost cause many think. He had a bad year and some teams realize that.

Is this Marshall Faulk?

Big Lou
03-16-2014, 09:31 PM
That is correct - net cap savings $3.625 mil.

I know when teams trade a player away they aren't Scott free, but it don't understand why we take a cap hit. That just makes no sense to me.

Number19
03-16-2014, 09:33 PM
Food for thought:

Could this be a controlled leak by the Texans? Skimming Twitter and Raiders MB's no raiders insider or beat writers have any knowledge or hear any rumblings of this.

We know 3 teams supposedly have interest in Schaub if he is cut: Browns, Jets, Raiders. Create a market for themselves?Over on the other thread Playoffs posted a series of Twitter tweets by an Oakland beat writer. See post #532. http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=103911&page=27

infantrycak
03-16-2014, 09:35 PM
I know when teams trade a player away they aren't Scott free, but it don't understand why we take a cap hit. That just makes no sense to me.

Whether cut or traded all money which has been paid to Schaub which has not already appeared on the cap has to be accounted for. So if you give a player $10 mil signing bonus on a 4 year contract, $2.5 mil will appear on the cap each year plus any new many paid during that year (base salary, workout bonuses, roster bonuses, etc.). So if you cut or trade him after two years only $5 mil of the $10 mil signing bonus has appeared on the cap during those two years. The remaining $5 mil has to go on the cap as dead money. The new team has to account for any money paid after the trade date and nothing before.

DX-TEX
03-16-2014, 09:35 PM
Over on the other thread Playoffs posted a series of Twitter tweets by an Oakland beat writer. See post #532. http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=103911&page=27

He did not validate the rumor. His logic is sound but he didn't say he heard about it either. getting his info from the 610 article

Number19
03-16-2014, 09:56 PM
If negotiations are underway, and if McGloin is not part of the wheeling & dealing, then who's out there for the Texans to acquire a veteran? There's Mallet & Hoyer, and who else?

steelbtexan
03-16-2014, 10:11 PM
Would it be a stretch to trade for Mallett and McGloin.

Atleast if they get McGloin and if they wanted Mallett they could tell BB 3-1 or no deal.

ChampionTexan
03-16-2014, 10:27 PM
If negotiations are underway, and if McGloin is not part of the wheeling & dealing, then who's out there for the Texans to acquire a veteran? There's Mallet & Hoyer, and who else?

Quarterbacks (2)

52. Michael Vick
107. Josh Freeman
Best remaining Free Agents (http://www.csnphilly.com/football-philadelphia-eagles/look-top-remaining-nfl-free-agents)

TexanBacker93
03-17-2014, 12:28 AM
I don't quite understand this McGloin thing..........at 6'1", he was worse than Keenum in every stat.

I don't know about that.

McGloin had a better completion percentage
had 1 win against Case's goose egg.
his QBR is much better
he was sacked 13 times less (that wasn't all on our O-Line either), Case led the league in avg yards lost/sack.

I didn't see any Raider games except the one against us so I'm basing his solely on numbers.

If anything I think the McGloin thing would be familiarity for O'Brien, but I don't see either guy being anything more than a stop gap until 1.1 is ready.

TexanBacker93
03-17-2014, 12:31 AM
We basically have no leverage here. Everybody know that Schaub has played his last game for us. And so far no other team seems to be interested. It would be great, if we could get something in return. If it is anything more than a 4th rounder IŽd be shocked - and IŽd do that trade in a heartbeat.

I wouldn't be that certain that we have no leverage. We don't have to get rid of Schaub. If there are no veteran QBs available he could be the starter next season. If nothing else the play calling alone has to get better. With the increased cap the Texans can keep him. O'Brien hasn't even had a chance to work with any of the QBs. He might determine that the problem was more Kubiak than Schaub.

TexanBacker93
03-17-2014, 12:34 AM
That is correct - net cap savings $3.625 mil.

We also take the entire hit this season instead of being able to classify it as a June 1st cut.

htownfan32
03-17-2014, 01:29 AM
I don't quite understand this McGloin thing..........at 6'1", he was worse than Keenum in every stat.

O'Brien never coached Keenum in college.

EVOLVIST
03-17-2014, 02:28 AM
I've been beating the McGloin drum for awhile now and this rumored trade has me crossing my fingers even more for McLovin. I found this video just now.

Just for the record, I'm not a Penn State homer. Nice mention of O'Brian here. It just seems logical for OB to want to pull this trigger IF he has the confidence in McGloin. If he doesn't he doesn't. Oh well. Still this is a nice vid.

http://www.chatsports.com/oakland-raiders/a/This-Video-Will-Instantly-Make-You-a-Matt-McGloin-Believer-10-100-561

eriadoc
03-17-2014, 02:36 AM
All of you folks wanting to collect QBs should go have a chat with Gruden.

Sigma
03-17-2014, 03:50 AM
I'd be interested to see what the Raiders will give in return.

would the raiders taking schaub mean that the guaranteed money will be put on theirs cap? freeing us from taking a 10M dead money hit?

If that was the case I would even consider giving him to them for free.

but I don't understand the whole guaranteed money/cap thing very well

-edit-

I was under the assumption that trading him would be exactly like cutting him as it pertains to our cap. So instead of his approx 14m cap number we would have approx 10m dead money toward him with a net savings of around 4m.

read this just now, so I guess it was the article in the OP to mislead me...

The Texans are looking to ship out Matt Schaub and his $10.5 million in salary cap cost to the Raiders, who have $59.9 million in cap space, and free up more cap room for their own ability to grab someone else in free agency or via trade.

Marshall
03-17-2014, 04:36 AM
Is this Marshall Faulk?
Hardly.

Marshall
03-17-2014, 04:40 AM
I know when teams trade a player away they aren't Scott free, but it don't understand why we take a cap hit. That just makes no sense to me.
The Cap hit is from the signing bonus we already paid. We benefited from being able to delay accounting for it for cap purposes when it was paid, but it doesn't transfer with the player since it has already been paid. It is accelerated and accounted for in the year of the cut or trade rather than spread out over the remaining years of the contract or the first five years of it, whichever is lesser.

I think CBS got the Signing Bonus dead money number of $10.5M confused with the Salary and Roster Bonus number of $10,937,500 mixed up. To be fair, they were the same until an adjustment was made a couple of months ago.

Number19
03-17-2014, 06:32 AM
We've been wanting to trade down, as one option. So we swap #1's and we also get their #2. Value wise this is still a little short, so we give them the veteran they need while grooming the QB they'll take at 1-1 and we get a young QB who is familar with our new offense. We move a QB who everyone knew was gone and Oakland trades an undrafted 2nd year player who would be their 3rd QB. Oakland is in cap trouble because their salary level is too low. It's a win-win all around.

We could also pull the identical deal with Cleveland except they are not in trouble with too low spending on salaries.

Marshall
03-17-2014, 06:40 AM
We've been wanting to trade down, as one option. So we swap #1's and we also get their #2. Value wise this is still a little short, so we give them the veteran they need while grooming the QB they'll take at 1-1 and we get a young QB who is familar with our new offense. We move a QB who everyone knew was gone and Oakland trades an I drafted 2nd year player who would be their 3rd QB. Oakland is in cap trouble because their salary level is too low. It's a win-win all around.

We could also pull the identical deal with Cleveland except they are not in trouble with too low spending on salaries.

By the numbers:
Houston 1-1 3000
Houston Schaub ?

Oakland 1-5 1700
Oakland 2-36 540
Oakland McGloin ?

I still see us coming up way short in this scenario.

speedfreek
03-17-2014, 07:13 AM
Schaub for Hayden straight up! :texanbill:

(bringing him back to H-town)

IDEXAN
03-17-2014, 08:03 AM
We've been wanting to trade down, as one option. So we swap #1's and we also get their #2. Value wise this is still a little short, so we give them the veteran they need while grooming the QB they'll take at 1-1 and we get a young QB who is familar with our new offense. We move a QB who everyone knew was gone and Oakland trades an undrafted 2nd year player who would be their 3rd QB. Oakland is in cap trouble because their salary level is too low. It's a win-win all around.

We could also pull the identical deal with Cleveland except they are not in trouble with too low spending on salaries.
Our 1.1 for Oaklands 1.5 & 2.5 ? I would love that deal !
But if a deal included trading Schaub, I'm still unsure about the non-guaranteed portion of Schaub's contract ? So let's say Oakland or whoever our trading partner might be assumes the balance of Schaub's contract, does that mean we would have no obligation for his remaining compensation on the contract beyond what portion of it is the unamortized guaranteed balance which of course does go agasnt our cap ?

Number19
03-17-2014, 08:20 AM
For a definitive answer I'll have to defer to those who keep up with this, but I would say yes you are correct. In simple terms that I understand, the Texans would still have to pay all past salary & bonuses which have been deferred but Oakland would assume all future payments due under the current contract. Schaub and the Raiders would likely renegotiate the contract.

steelbtexan
03-17-2014, 08:33 AM
All of you folks wanting to collect QBs should go have a chat with Gruden.

My QB collection would look like this

1. Mallett
2.McGloin
3. Keenum

All 3 talented with various degrees of upside.

TEXANRED
03-17-2014, 09:16 AM
My QB collection would look like this

1. Mallett
2.McGloin
3. Keenum

All 3 talented with various degrees of upside.

So you are looking for another 2-14 season?

michaelm
03-17-2014, 09:17 AM
There is roughly a 0% chance of this trade happening.

Trail.Blazr
03-17-2014, 09:22 AM
I don't quite understand this McGloin thing..........at 6'1", he was worse than Keenum in every stat.

cept for W-L stats :kitten:

but McGloin doesn't strike me as any answer for Houston, aside from getting Schaub off the roster. Seeing as I don't feel keeping Schaub on the roster is taking a step forward, this would still make me feel better than if no trade is made, but it's low hanging fruit.

steelbtexan
03-17-2014, 09:25 AM
So you are looking for another 2-14 season?

Mallett is as good as any QB in this class and a huge improvement over Schaub was last yr. For that matter so is McGloin. Plus they both have experience in BOB's offense.

Even if I was wrong they could draft a QB in next yrs draft. Instead of settling for your God TB. 2-14 with Clowney/Robinson and Mallett/McGloin is highly unlikely.

Did you just post this for effect? Continue on with your early morning TB masturbation.

Exascor
03-17-2014, 09:25 AM
Our 1.1 for Oaklands 1.5 & 2.5 ? I would love that deal !
But if a deal included trading Schaub, I'm still unsure about the non-guaranteed portion of Schaub's contract ? So let's say Oakland or whoever our trading partner might be assumes the balance of Schaub's contract, does that mean we would have no obligation for his remaining compensation on the contract beyond what portion of it is the unamortized guaranteed balance which of course does go agasnt our cap ?

Trading is treated like cutting. We would absorb the remaining 10.5 of Schaub's bonus in 2014. Yes - Oakland would get saddled with the remainder if his contract. I'd expect an immediate restructure/extension.

If we get a Pop Tart for Schaub it should be considered a success.

Thorn
03-17-2014, 09:45 AM
Trading is treated like cutting. We would absorb the remaining 10.5 of Schaub's bonus in 2014. Yes - Oakland would get saddled with the remainder if his contract. I'd expect an immediate restructure/extension.

If we get a Pop Tart for Schaub it should be considered a success.

As long as he's not on the active roster when the season starts, I don't give a **** what we do with him. They can throw him and his uniforms and crap in a dumpster as far as I'm concerned.

IDEXAN
03-17-2014, 09:51 AM
Trading is treated like cutting. We would absorb the remaining 10.5 of Schaub's bonus in 2014. Yes - Oakland would get saddled with the remainder if his contract. I'd expect an immediate restructure/extension.

If we get a Pop Tart for Schaub it should be considered a success.
But isn't the problem with expecting a restructure/extension is it would mean an agreement to the new terms by BOTH Oakland and Schaub ?

Lucky
03-17-2014, 09:54 AM
Trading is treated like cutting. We would absorb the remaining 10.5 of Schaub's bonus in 2014. Yes - Oakland would get saddled with the remainder if his contract. I'd expect an immediate restructure/extension.

No one explained why Matt Schaub would agree to a restructure rather than just waiting to be released and negotiating on the open market? It doesn't make sense from his viewpoint.

Seegara
03-17-2014, 09:59 AM
I wouldn't go that far. It's clear we have a QB they want (if this story is true). He might be history here, but one man's garbage could be another man's gold.
Sometimes a change of team is the spark a player needs to excel, and Schaub could be an asset to them for a season or two. Were it my decision, a 4th or better would buy him. But Oakland isn't going to trade a QB for a QB; we have to get a replacement somewhere else.

Exascor
03-17-2014, 09:59 AM
But isn't the problem with expecting a restructure/extension is it would mean an agreement to the new terms by BOTH Oakland and Schaub ?

Sure but it's really easy honestly. Remember that they are looking to do the opposite if what most teams - they need to spend more not less. Since they have to eat up cap space, they could front load the contract and give Schaub a bonus too. Even if Schaub doesn't wasn't to do anything, he's under contract for a lot if money. He'd be dumb to not take what he's owed on it.

thunderkyss
03-17-2014, 10:02 AM
No one explained why Matt Schaub would agree to a restructure rather than just waiting to be released and negotiating on the open market? It doesn't make sense from his viewpoint.

I thought someone mentioned if he's traded to Oakland, they wouldn't necessarily want him to restructure. They said Oakland needs to add to their cap hit, to meet the minimum (though I thought it was a 3 year avg & not anything to worry about this year).

If so, it would make sense.

There are also those here that advocate for the pay as you go contracts. This would be just that. They aren't bound to Matt Schaub in any way. If they bring him in & he gets beat out by Matt McGloin, they can cut him before the season starts & not owe him anything, not have to show it on their cap... he'd never get a silver & black paycheck.

Exascor
03-17-2014, 10:02 AM
No one explained why Matt Schaub would agree to a restructure rather than just waiting to be released and negotiating on the open market? It doesn't make sense from his viewpoint.

If he gets traded, he won't be getting released. He can't negotiate except with the team he's traded too.

Lucky
03-17-2014, 10:10 AM
If he gets traded, he won't be getting released. He can't negotiate except with the team he's traded too.
Why would he want to negotiate is my question? He's making $10+million this year on his existing contract.

Number19
03-17-2014, 10:22 AM
Sometimes a change of team is the spark a player needs to excel, and Schaub could be an asset to them for a season or two. Were it my decision, a 4th or better would buy him. But Oakland isn't going to trade a QB for a QB; we have to get a replacement somewhere else.

Schaub would not be the long term solution at QB for Oakland. They would be expected to get the QB of their choice at 1-1, assuming this was part of the deal. So McGloin would be third on the depth chart. He was also an undrafted FA when signed. He's replaceable.

Number19
03-17-2014, 10:29 AM
Why would he want to negotiate is my question? He's making $10+million this year on his existing contract.

First, as explained, Oakland wouldn't have to renegotiate. But more importantly, as explained by the Oakland beat writer in his tweets, they could sweeten the deal to entice him to renegotiate, by including a signing bonus.

Exascor
03-17-2014, 10:30 AM
Why would he want to negotiate is my question? He's making $10+million this year on his existing contract.

To make more maybe? Oakland needs to spend - not save. Give Schaub a 10 - 12 million bonus and lots of incentives in the new contract. Why wouldn't he do it?

thunderkyss
03-17-2014, 10:31 AM
First, as explained, Oakland wouldn't have to renegotiate. But more importantly, as explained by the Oakland beat writer in his tweets, they could sweeten the deal to entice him to renegotiate, by including a signing bonus.

Every now & then, it's ok to say, "I don't know."

DocBar
03-17-2014, 10:43 AM
Mallett is as good as any QB in this class and a huge improvement over Schaub was last yr. For that matter so is McGloin. Plus they both have experience in BOB's offense.

Even if I was wrong they could draft a QB in next yrs draft. Instead of settling for your God TB. 2-14 with Clowney/Robinson and Mallett/McGloin is highly unlikely.

Did you just post this for effect? Continue on with your early morning TB masturbation.How did you arrive at this conclusion? Ryan Mallet stats (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MallRy00.htm)

The scant stats he does have are pretty pathetic.

steelbtexan
03-17-2014, 10:51 AM
How did you arrive at this conclusion? Ryan Mallet stats (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MallRy00.htm)

The scant stats he does have are pretty pathetic.

I've seen him play in college.

What kind of stats do you expect him to put up behind a GOAT like Brady?

Lucky
03-17-2014, 11:01 AM
To make more maybe? Oakland needs to spend - not save. Give Schaub a 10 - 12 million bonus and lots of incentives in the new contract. Why wouldn't he do it?
Yes, I agree. Schaub would agree to a renegotiated contract that would pay him more $$$. A new contract that would pay him less is what I would question.

Number19
03-17-2014, 11:20 AM
With all the previous comments and discussion, it never even entered my mind that "renegotiation" could be interpreted as meaning "renegotiate for less money".

Lucky
03-17-2014, 11:23 AM
With all the previous comments and discussion, it never even entered my mind that "renegotiation" could be interpreted as meaning "renegotiate for less money".
Signed,
Matt Schaub's agent

Doppelganger
03-17-2014, 11:31 AM
For Schaub a trade to Oakland is good. Either way he gets his guaranteed money, but in Oakland, he still gets the money owed per the contract. He would get 10 mill from the Texans(as guaranteed money) plus his per game and other bonuses. If he was cut he would get less since the per game and bonus money will certainly be much less.

Outside of needing to spend big $, I am not sure why Oakland would want him but a trade makes sense for Schuab and the Texans.

Lucky
03-17-2014, 11:40 AM
For Schaub a trade to Oakland is good. Either way he gets his guaranteed money, but in Oakland, he still gets the money owed per the contract. He would get 10 mill from the Texans(as guaranteed money) plus his per game and other bonuses. If he was cut he would get less since the per game and bonus money will certainly be much less.

Schaub doesn't have any guaranteed money left on his deal. If he were to be cut by the Texans, they would owe Schaub zilch. The unamortized portion of his signing bonus would be due on the cap, however. That's accounting, not "real money".

WolverineFan
03-17-2014, 11:40 AM
Outside of needing to spend big $, I am not sure why Oakland would want him but a trade makes sense for Schuab and the Texans.


I think Oakland wants him because they don't plan on taking a QB #5 overall and want a vet in place instead. Schaub would likely be the top QB on the market if cut, but he probably wouldn't choose Oakland as his destination.

Playoffs
03-17-2014, 11:50 AM
I think Oakland wants him because they don't plan on taking a QB #5 overall and want a vet in place instead. Schaub would likely be the top QB on the market if cut, but he probably wouldn't choose Oakland as his destination.

And after two 4-12 seasons GM might be feeling some heat to show improvement or lose his job.

Hervoyel
03-17-2014, 11:57 AM
I have this mental picture of Matt Schaub wearing the Black & Silver with that unshaved shadow look he was sporting toward the end of the season here. He runs out on the field with an uncharacteristic swagger and a steely look on in his eyes that we Texans fans wouldn't recognize. This is a Matt Schaub with something to prove and with a burning fire in his belly. The beast is finally let loose.....

The Raiders offense takes the field. Matt barks out the play and the Raiders crisply break the huddle and trot to the line. Matt Schaub smiles and nods at his WR who goes in motion, shouts out the cadence while staring down the LB who appears to be positioned to blitz... The ball is snapped, massive men crash into one another, and just like that the ball is out and on its way...... in the hands of a previously unheard of cornerback as he streaks toward the Raiders endzone.

bah007
03-17-2014, 11:57 AM
Schaub makes sense for OAK if they don't want to take a QB at the top this year. They get a starting QB without using their first round pick. They'll have to give up a draft pick but probably not one that they will miss. I could see them taking a QB in the third or fourth round. They could go into next year with:

Schaub-Pryor-rookie

McGloin is let go. If Schaub sucks for them they can cut him with no penalty and still turn to Pryor while the rookie gets ready.

DocBar
03-17-2014, 12:24 PM
I've seen him play in college.

What kind of stats do you expect him to put up behind a GOAT like Brady?I don't expect him to have 4,000 yds passing or 30 TD's, but 1-4 for 17 yds and a pick passing and 8 rushes for -9 yds? Doesn't inspire confidence in me.

And there great college QB's who are NFL busts every year. I'm not saying Mallett would be a bust in the NFL, I'm just saying there's absolutely no way to tell with just his college career and the stats he does have in the NFL.

His college stats aren't markedly different than the top 3 prospects this year and his accurracy is worse. I guess we'll just disagree on this one. :texflag:

Honoring Earl 34
03-17-2014, 12:30 PM
I have this mental picture of Matt Schaub wearing the Black & Silver with that unshaved shadow look he was sporting toward the end of the season here. He runs out on the field with an uncharacteristic swagger and a steely look on in his eyes that we Texans fans wouldn't recognize. This is a Matt Schaub with something to prove and with a burning fire in his belly. The beast is finally let loose.....

The Raiders offense takes the field. Matt barks out the play and the Raiders crisply break the huddle and trot to the line. Matt Schaub smiles and nods at his WR who goes in motion, shouts out the cadence while staring down the LB who appears to be positioned to blitz... The ball is snapped, massive men crash into one another, and just like that the ball is out and on its way...... in the hands of a previously unheard of cornerback as he streaks toward the Raiders endzone.

Shaub is the new Blanda without the kicking .

bah007
03-17-2014, 12:30 PM
I don't expect him to have 4,000 yds passing or 30 TD's, but 1-4 for 17 yds and a pick passing and 8 rushes for -9 yds? Doesn't inspire confidence in me.

And there great college QB's who are NFL busts every year. I'm not saying Mallett would be a bust in the NFL, I'm just saying there's absolutely no way to tell with just his college career and the stats he does have in the NFL.

His college stats aren't markedly different than the top 3 prospects this year and his accurracy is worse. I guess we'll just disagree on this one. :texflag:

People will always look at a physical specimen like Mallett and see them for what they could possibly be instead of seeing what they really are. It will always be that way.

Hottoddie
03-17-2014, 01:13 PM
I don't expect him to have 4,000 yds passing or 30 TD's, but 1-4 for 17 yds and a pick passing and 8 rushes for -9 yds? Doesn't inspire confidence in me.

And there great college QB's who are NFL busts every year. I'm not saying Mallett would be a bust in the NFL, I'm just saying there's absolutely no way to tell with just his college career and the stats he does have in the NFL.

His college stats aren't markedly different than the top 3 prospects this year and his accurracy is worse. I guess we'll just disagree on this one. :texflag:

I wouldn't dismiss a player because he hasn't put up any significant numbers just yet. I remember suggesting we trade for Aaron Rodgers when he was just a backup to Favre & was repeatedly told he wasn't any good. In his first two years he went 15-31 for 111 yards, 1 int, 3 fumbles & 6 sacks in 5 games.

Brett Favre was traded to Green Bay after going 0-4, 2 int & 1 sack in two games his first year.

I'm not saying Mallett will even come close to these two players, but neither one of them did much coming off the bench either. Unless Brady gets hurt, Mallett will never see the field during a real game. He's got all the tools to be a starting QB in the NFL & he's even kept his nose clean in his first 3 years after all the college issues. If OB thinks he can do something with Mallett, I'm all for it.

thunderkyss
03-17-2014, 01:16 PM
I have this mental picture of Matt Schaub wearing the Black & Silver with that unshaved shadow look he was sporting toward the end of the season here. He runs out on the field with an uncharacteristic swagger and a steely look on in his eyes that we Texans fans wouldn't recognize. This is a Matt Schaub with something to prove and with a burning fire in his belly. The beast is finally let loose.....


I can see him in a black doo-rag with a big gold loop earing in both ears.


The Raiders offense takes the field. Matt barks out the play and the Raiders crisply break the huddle and trot to the line. Matt Schaub smiles and nods at his WR who goes in motion, shouts out the cadence while staring down the LB who appears to be positioned to blitz... The ball is snapped, massive men crash into one another, and just like that the ball is out and on its way...... in the hands of a previously unheard of cornerback as he streaks toward the Raiders endzone.

I'm not a big Matt Schaub fan. I'm also one of the last few (one??) who do not believe his Lisfranc caused the issues we saw last season.

I've also liked Matt when we finally canned the idea of running the ball to set up the pass... something we haven't done since Arian Foster broke out. Adding that Wade Phillips defense didn't help & then Shane Lechler....

Matt's a rhythm QB, always has been & Gary's style of offense doesn't always help him get into that rhythm, or when he does get in the zone, Gary cools him off.

I don't believe he's "clutch" I don't believe he can carry a team to a Super Bowl, I don't believe he is "Mr. Playoffs" but I don't think we've seen the best Matt Schaub could have been. I don't know that he can be better than what he has been in recent years, due to getting up there in age & what little physical prowess he had is most likely gone by now...

But I am interested to see what he can do without Gary Kubiak... not that I blame everything on Kubiak, just most everything.

thunderkyss
03-17-2014, 01:22 PM
People will always look at a physical specimen like Mallett and see them for what they could possibly be instead of seeing what they really are. It will always be that way.

I think the talent is only part of the equation.

His coaching staff, HC, OC, QB coach, WR coach, etc... plays a big part in it as well. I still think Kolb would have had a great career under Kubiak. I think Brady Quin would have done well here. Gabbert might do well with Harbaugh.

I liked what I heard from the clips of Bill O'Brien's coaching clinics & think if he picked Mallet to lead this team, that he believes he can make him & us a winner.

Hervoyel
03-17-2014, 01:30 PM
I can see him in a black doo-rag with a big gold loop earing in both ears.



I'm not a big Matt Schaub fan. I'm also one of the last few (one??) who do not believe his Lisfranc caused the issues we saw last season.

I've also liked Matt when we finally canned the idea of running the ball to set up the pass... something we haven't done since Arian Foster broke out. Adding that Wade Phillips defense didn't help & then Shane Lechler....

Matt's a rhythm QB, always has been & Gary's style of offense doesn't always help him get into that rhythm, or when he does get in the zone, Gary cools him off.

I don't believe he's "clutch" I don't believe he can carry a team to a Super Bowl, I don't believe he is "Mr. Playoffs" but I don't think we've seen the best Matt Schaub could have been. I don't know that he can be better than what he has been in recent years, due to getting up there in age & what little physical prowess he had is most likely gone by now...

But I am interested to see what he can do without Gary Kubiak... not that I blame everything on Kubiak, just most everything.

I hear you. I want to see him somewhere else if for no other reason than to know what I should or should not blame on Gary. They're inextricably tied to one another at this point. We know what Gary has done with other QB's. We've seen him OC and coach QB's before. We've never seen Matt without Gary.

_King_
03-17-2014, 02:05 PM
I hear you. I want to see him somewhere else if for no other reason than to know what I should or should not blame on Gary. They're inextricably tied to one another at this point. We know what Gary has done with other QB's. We've seen him OC and coach QB's before. We've never seen Matt without Gary.

You can see him here to know what he looks like without Gary. :snowday:

bah007
03-17-2014, 02:08 PM
I think the talent is only part of the equation.

His coaching staff, HC, OC, QB coach, WR coach, etc... plays a big part in it as well. I still think Kolb would have had a great career under Kubiak. I think Brady Quin would have done well here. Gabbert might do well with Harbaugh.

I liked what I heard from the clips of Bill O'Brien's coaching clinics & think if he picked Mallet to lead this team, that he believes he can make him & us a winner.

If he picked Mallett then I would agree with you.

My stance is that he won't pick Mallett because Mallett is not what a bunch of you guys think he is. He's a big body with a big arm who choked games away in college but got away with it because Bobby Petrino made him look good.

Mallett is a bigger version of Brian Brohm.

TEXANRED
03-17-2014, 03:22 PM
I don't get why people are so big on Ryan Mallett. His career NFL stats are 4 GP back in 2012 and went 1-4 for 17 yards and an INT.

The Pencil Neck
03-17-2014, 03:32 PM
I don't get why people are so big on Ryan Mallett. His career NFL stats are 4 GP back in 2012 and went 1-4 for 17 yards and an INT.

1) They liked him when he was coming out of college.
2) They like the fact that he knows our new system.
3) They like the fact that he's worked with OB.
4) They like the fact that he hasn't shown any of the behavioral issues that were questions about him coming out of school.

I'm in the wait and see camp.

darnbni99a
03-17-2014, 03:33 PM
sh!t they can have him for free

steelbtexan
03-17-2014, 04:00 PM
1) They liked him when he was coming out of college.
2) They like the fact that he knows our new system.
3) They like the fact that he's worked with OB.
4) They like the fact that he hasn't shown any of the behavioral issues that were questions about him coming out of school.

I'm in the wait and see camp.

msr

Seems pretty logical to me.

Hottoddie
03-17-2014, 04:44 PM
1) They liked him when he was coming out of college.
2) They like the fact that he knows our new system.
3) They like the fact that he's worked with OB.
4) They like the fact that he hasn't shown any of the behavioral issues that were questions about him coming out of school.

I'm in the wait and see camp.

Exactly!

IDEXAN
03-17-2014, 04:54 PM
1) They liked him when he was coming out of college.
2) They like the fact that he knows our new system.
3) They like the fact that he's worked with OB.
4) They like the fact that he hasn't shown any of the behavioral issues that were questions about him coming out of school.

I'm in the wait and see camp.
You sold me to PN, let's hope OB gets this guy.

DocBar
03-17-2014, 05:24 PM
I wouldn't dismiss a player because he hasn't put up any significant numbers just yet. I remember suggesting we trade for Aaron Rodgers when he was just a backup to Favre & was repeatedly told he wasn't any good. In his first two years he went 15-31 for 111 yards, 1 int, 3 fumbles & 6 sacks in 5 games.

Brett Favre was traded to Green Bay after going 0-4, 2 int & 1 sack in two games his first year.

I'm not saying Mallett will even come close to these two players, but neither one of them did much coming off the bench either. Unless Brady gets hurt, Mallett will never see the field during a real game. He's got all the tools to be a starting QB in the NFL & he's even kept his nose clean in his first 3 years after all the college issues. If OB thinks he can do something with Mallett, I'm all for it. I'm not trying to be dismissive, just not sold on him. He might be the next great thing. If Belichik would trade him for Yates, straight up, I'd do it in a heartbeat.

drs23
03-17-2014, 05:26 PM
I'm not trying to be dismissive, just not sold on him. He might be the next great thing. If Belichik would trade him for Yates, straight up, I'd do it in a heartbeat.

I wouldn't, based on their on field performance.

DocBar
03-17-2014, 05:37 PM
I wouldn't, based on their on field performance.I would gamble on Mallet's potential vs. Yates' performance. Much more film on Yates. I just wouldn't plan on him becoming the Franchise.

Texian
03-17-2014, 05:53 PM
If the Pats are willing to trade you Mallett then you know you're getting the shaft while Belichick is taking the elevator.

Lucky
03-17-2014, 05:57 PM
Matt Schaub just called, and he wants his "serious trade" thread back from Ryan Mallett. He especially liked the part where Exascor and Number19 were giving him a raise.

Texanmike02
03-17-2014, 07:35 PM
I'm not trying to be dismissive, just not sold on him. He might be the next great thing. If Belichik would trade him for Yates, straight up, I'd do it in a heartbeat.

Bellicheck would trade for Yates straight up in a heartbeat. Why not? Yates won't see the field anyway.

Mike

Number19
03-17-2014, 08:34 PM
Matt Schaub just called, and he wants his "serious trade" thread back from Ryan Mallett. He especially liked the part where Exascor and Number19 were giving him a raise.I'm afraid it's likely Schaub won't get an answer until March 27, or maybe May 8.

mussop
03-17-2014, 08:47 PM
Matt Schaub just called, and he wants his "serious trade" thread back from Ryan Mallett. He especially liked the part where Exascor and Number19 were giving him a raise.

Even Matt Schaubs threads get intercepted.

ObsiWan
03-17-2014, 09:19 PM
1) They liked him when he was coming out of college.
2) They like the fact that he knows our new system.
3) They like the fact that he's worked with OB.
4) They like the fact that he hasn't shown any of the behavioral issues that were questions about him coming out of school.

I'm in the wait and see camp.
Yep.
I've learned to wait and see too.
the main thing I'm waiting for is to see if O'Brien actually goes after him.

ObsiWan
03-17-2014, 09:22 PM
Even Matt Schaubs threads get intercepted.
:spit:

that's cold dude.

repped

tried to get Lucky too but got the MSR msg

Hervoyel
03-18-2014, 10:34 AM
You can see him here to know what he looks like without Gary. :snowday:

Yeah..... No thanks. That's a little too close.

Seegara
03-18-2014, 11:35 AM
If the Pats are willing to trade you Mallett then you know you're getting the shaft while Belichick is taking the elevator.
^
Now THAT'S an interesting way to put it. If he would trade Mallett for Yates, you know RM would have an undisclosed injury about as serious as a torn ACL.

pirbroke
03-18-2014, 11:51 AM
I'm for any trade for one of Oaklands QB's. the reason is that other Sanchez thread is scarring the hell out of me.

badboy
03-18-2014, 12:06 PM
Very interesting rumor if true; not sure I jump to the trade being a QB. Any decent player could be good especially if at one of our needs like ILB, DT, safety, nickle CB, RB, OLB,etc. I can see Raiders using first for another position and 2nd on a QB and allow MS to mentor for one year. Schaub could be released after 2014 if new guy ready. The trade could also be for a draft pick which would allow minimal $ to flow from Raiders' cap that does need boosting. Also if trade involves a player ($3-4 million range) Schaub's salary could be looked at as $6-7m.

I am praying for a Daryl Morey "T Mac" type trade especially if Browns get involved. We know Cleveland signed Tate and IIRC a WR free agent last week. They could ratchet up MS value.

For me, I hope Oakland gives us a third & Browns offer 1-4 & 1-26 for our 1-1. I'm thinking we could also be in running for trade with Vikings for #4 and get another second round pick. 8, 26, two seconds (our 2-1 could be traded down & we could still get Garoppolo).

Dreaming? Maybe but just maybe not.

aussie_texan
03-18-2014, 08:35 PM
Very interesting rumor if true; not sure I jump to the trade being a QB. Any decent player could be good especially if at one of our needs like ILB, DT, safety, nickle CB, RB, OLB,etc. I can see Raiders using first for another position and 2nd on a QB and allow MS to mentor for one year. Schaub could be released after 2014 if new guy ready. The trade could also be for a draft pick which would allow minimal $ to flow from Raiders' cap that does need boosting. Also if trade involves a player ($3-4 million range) Schaub's salary could be looked at as $6-7m.

I am praying for a Daryl Morey "T Mac" type trade especially if Browns get involved. We know Cleveland signed Tate and IIRC a WR free agent last week. They could ratchet up MS value.

For me, I hope Oakland gives us a third & Browns offer 1-4 & 1-26 for our 1-1. I'm thinking we could also be in running for trade with Vikings for #4 and get another second round pick. 8, 26, two seconds (our 2-1 could be traded down & we could still get Garoppolo).

Dreaming? Maybe but just maybe not.

thats very maddenish

BullNation4Life
03-18-2014, 09:40 PM
Very interesting rumor if true; not sure I jump to the trade being a QB. Any decent player could be good especially if at one of our needs like ILB, DT, safety, nickle CB, RB, OLB,etc. I can see Raiders using first for another position and 2nd on a QB and allow MS to mentor for one year. Schaub could be released after 2014 if new guy ready. The trade could also be for a draft pick which would allow minimal $ to flow from Raiders' cap that does need boosting. Also if trade involves a player ($3-4 million range) Schaub's salary could be looked at as $6-7m.

I am praying for a Daryl Morey "T Mac" type trade especially if Browns get involved. We know Cleveland signed Tate and IIRC a WR free agent last week. They could ratchet up MS value.

For me, I hope Oakland gives us a third & Browns offer 1-4 & 1-26 for our 1-1. I'm thinking we could also be in running for trade with Vikings for #4 and get another second round pick. 8, 26, two seconds (our 2-1 could be traded down & we could still get Garoppolo).

Dreaming? Maybe but just maybe not.

in bold: I think for this scenario to play out, Manziel, if he is still the Browns guy, needs to have an awesome pro day and wow everybody in attendance. That way talks to flare up for the next month and a half about him being the #1 prospect, launching Cleveland into desperate mode...

otherwise they will just wait until the 4th pick...

badboy
03-19-2014, 12:12 PM
in bold: I think for this scenario to play out, Manziel, if he is still the Browns guy, needs to have an awesome pro day and wow everybody in attendance. That way talks to flare up for the next month and a half about him being the #1 prospect, launching Cleveland into desperate mode...

otherwise they will just wait until the 4th pick...
Why I disagree: a great pro day will only help of course but Manziel's sizzle not from controlled play but how he does in chaos. His rep is he turns poop to fertilizer resulting in roses at he finish line. He handles team on the field & sidelines; pro day will not add or detract. If Browns' "leaked" interest in Manziel to mislead others as some suggested, why has that stopped? Seems like they would keep tooting he was their guy & hoped others bought it.

I remember getting blasted when I first mocked a trade with Cleveland & now it is common talk.

TexanBacker93
03-21-2014, 07:58 AM
From Adam Schefter

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/10644839/matt-schaub-expected-traded-oakland-raiders-houston-texans

HoustonFrog
03-21-2014, 08:00 AM
According to @RossTuckerNFL, the Raiders will pay Matt Schaub $11M and he will start. I wish Matt the best. Now let’s move on.
@lancezierlein

Errant Hothy
03-21-2014, 08:05 AM
Rick Smith with a helluva move. Will he get love for it?

mussop
03-21-2014, 08:06 AM
According to @RossTuckerNFL, the Raiders will pay Matt Schaub $11M and he will start. I wish Matt the best. Now let’s move on.
@lancezierlein

Saying its going to be a six or seventh round pick. We should hold off for a fifth! :). J/k!!!! Ok someone explain the cap implications for us cap challenged folk.

CloakNNNdagger
03-21-2014, 08:09 AM
According to @RossTuckerNFL, the Raiders will pay Matt Schaub $11M and he will start. I wish Matt the best. Now let’s move on.
@lancezierlein

^^This

ATXtexanfan
03-21-2014, 08:12 AM
Suddenly I'm in a great mood

TexanBacker93
03-21-2014, 08:13 AM
Rick Smith with a helluva move. Will he get love for it?

Probably not from most. He could have traded him straight up for the 5th pick and a 1st rounder next year and wouldn't get credit.

He's not the best, but until we see how things work with O'Brien I won't pass judgement. We don't know what kind of personnel control Kubiak had. Kubiak basically hired Smith so the bad signings and bad draft picks could have been more Kubiak's influence in what he wanted.

gwallaia
03-21-2014, 08:14 AM
Does this mean we take QB #1. I still want Clowney.

htowntexans1985
03-21-2014, 08:26 AM
What will i do with my schaub jersey now?

chicagotexan2
03-21-2014, 08:28 AM
Schaub had a disasterous 2013 and he was just awful. Before that he was pretty good. Good look Sschub and thanks for your efforts.

michaelm
03-21-2014, 08:28 AM
Whatever pick we get in the 2014 draft, there should be a conditional 2015 pick based on Schaub's 2014 performance. At least that's what I'd want if I was the Texans GM, in case Matt goes there and bounces back to his earlier performance level.

gwallaia
03-21-2014, 08:31 AM
What will i do with my schaub jersey now?

This may be the first year in Texans history where we don't have a #8 on the field.

ArlingtonTexan
03-21-2014, 08:32 AM
just for information sake

the raiders do not have their 5th
have the their own 6th & 7th plus a 7th from Cardinals (Carson Palmer0

thunderkyss
03-21-2014, 08:35 AM
Saying its going to be a six or seventh round pick. We should hold off for a fifth! :). J/k!!!! Ok someone explain the cap implications for us cap challenged folk.

Dead money will be gone this year. This frees up $3.9M or $3.6M, most of which will cover Fitzpatrick's cap hit.

powda
03-21-2014, 08:36 AM
Rick Smith with a helluva move. Will he get love for it?

If we got more in the trade then a used roll of toilet paper he should.

Showtime100
03-21-2014, 08:39 AM
Does this mean we take QB #1. I still want Clowney.

Any thoughts on Clowney's perceived attitude (thinks he's too big for his britches)?

Not a loaded question here, promise. Just curious to hear your take.

gwallaia
03-21-2014, 08:40 AM
Any thoughts on Clowney's perceived attitude (thinks he's too big for his britches)?

Not a loaded question here, promise. Just curious to hear your take.

If there is, I hoping our boy Watt can get him in line.

There is no QB this year worth the #1 pick. Clowney is worth the #1 pick.

Thorn
03-21-2014, 08:42 AM
So, free agency has suddenly turned mildly interesting.

kingtexan
03-21-2014, 08:43 AM
Rick Smith with a helluva move. Will he get love for it?

This wasn't Smith, it was Raider desperation.

He still sucks ...

TheRealJoker
03-21-2014, 08:49 AM
So is it better for us to trade instead of making him a June 1 cut from a salary cap perspective?

infantrycak
03-21-2014, 08:50 AM
So is it better for us to trade instead of making him a June 1 cut from a salary cap perspective?

It means more of a cap hit this year and none next year. People vary on whether that is better.

Showtime100
03-21-2014, 08:51 AM
If there is, I hoping our boy Watt can get him in line.

There is no QB this year worth the #1 pick. Clowney is worth the #1 pick.

Very true. Even AJ, even from the other side of the ball, could show him a thing or two about being more locker room-friendly (if a problem existed).

I certainly won't fret if they get Clowney, though I've noticed my opinion has changed quite a lot this offseason about draft strategy...lol.

IDEXAN
03-21-2014, 08:52 AM
Any thoughts on Clowney's perceived attitude (thinks he's too big for his britches)?


Both Mario and Peppers were thought to be guys who took plays off/lacked a "motor", but then they went 1.1 & 1.2 respectively the years they were drafted. Then during their NFL careers they were also thought to take plays off/ lacked a motor, but in FA Mario brought more money than any defensive player ever and Peppers, near social security age, just signed his second big contract as a FA.
Being a big-time pass-rusher is not a simple commodity, it's a very highly valued and scarce talent that NFL teams are willing to pay vast sums of money for no matter if the player lacks a full time motor or has a high-opinion of himself.

Hervoyel
03-21-2014, 08:53 AM
What will i do with my schaub jersey now?

As soon as Blake Bortles is drafted the Houston Chronicle will come out with an illustrated tutorial on how to modify your already modified David Carr/Matt Schaub jersey to the #5 and to the name "BORTLES".

Anyone who actually does it though should be mocked mercilessly because that's just cheap as hell.

That's all of course unless Bortles announces an unexpected change to #8

Carr Bombed
03-21-2014, 08:54 AM
It means more of a cap hit this year and none next year. People vary on whether that is better.

Since the entire team will be learning a new system this year.. I'll say taking the hit now and being free and clear next year is a lot better.. Especially since we'll have to resign Watt.

Showtime100
03-21-2014, 08:54 AM
Both Mario and Peppers were thought to be guys who took plays off/lacked a "motor", but then they went 1.1 & 1.2 respectively the years they were drafted. Then during their NFL careers they were also thought to take plays off/ lacked a motor, but in FA Mario brought more money than any defensive player ever and Peppers, near social security age, just signed his second big contract as a FA.
Being a big-time pass-rusher is not a simple commodity, it's a very highly valued and scarce talent that NFL teams are willing to pay vast sums of money for no matter if the player lacks a full time motor or has a high-opinion of himself.

No doubt. It wasn't his ability or it's value I was asking gwallaia about. :)

infantrycak
03-21-2014, 08:55 AM
Both Mario and Peppers were thought to be guys who took plays off/lacked a "motor", but then they went 1.1 & 1.2 respectively the years they were drafted.

Neither was accused of taking a season off.

But this discussion goes in the draft forum. Please take it over there.

htowntexans1985
03-21-2014, 08:58 AM
As soon as Blake Bortles is drafted the Houston Chronicle will come out with an illustrated tutorial on how to modify your already modified David Carr/Matt Schaub jersey to the #5 and to the name "BORTLES".

Anyone who actually does it though should be mocked mercilessly because that's just cheap as hell.

That's all of course unless Bortles announces an unexpected change to #8

Lol. I was just kidding about owning a schaub jersey. Only jersey I own is #80.

JCTexan
03-21-2014, 08:59 AM
Good news! It was time for the Texans to move in a different direction. I hope Schaub takes the division from Denver.

Carr Bombed
03-21-2014, 09:01 AM
Lol. I was just kidding about owning a schaub jersey. Only jersey I own is #80.

I got #80.. and #99 :)

HoustonFrog
03-21-2014, 09:02 AM
More from the earlier reports

Adam Schefter ‏@AdamSchefter · 1h
Cleveland expressed some interest in Matt Schaub, who could have been reunited with Kyle Shanahan, but Oakland wanted Schaub even more.



Sean Pendergast ‏@SeanCablinasian · 1h
Schaub-trade cap "savings" of $4M (give or take) are about a wash after you fill his void with Fitzpatrick and his $3.37M cap figure in '14.

LOL

SI_DougFarrar ‏@SI_DougFarrar · 1h
The Raiders' best hope in the Schaub deal is that the draft pick traded will be returned for a touchdown.

IDEXAN
03-21-2014, 09:04 AM
No doubt. It wasn't his ability or it's value I was asking gwallaia about. :)
You did say something about "thinks he's too big for his britches", right ?
But why is that a problem ? I think most of the really successful guys in the NFL have very, very healthy egos. On the Texans, no doubt that both Watt & Cushing are hotdogs to some degree. And some of the best QBs like Brady and Rogers are very self-centered from what I read. I want my best players to
have an attitude about their own abilities, to think and believe they are the best.

Playoffs
03-21-2014, 09:04 AM
Rick Smith with a helluva move. Will he get love for it?

Nope.

Albert Breer @AlbertBreer
It's agreed to, yes. RT @joestewwood @AlbertBreer Has the Schaub deal gone through?

Also, Matt Schaub's contract calls for $13.5 million in 2015 and $15.5 million in 2016.

Cap ramifications ... Oakland would carry $11M (base + roster bonuses) for Schaub in '14. Houston saves $4M, with $10.5M in dead $ in '14.

Blake
03-21-2014, 09:05 AM
This wasn't Smith, it was Raider desperation.

He still sucks ...

Spouting guesses like they are facts is fun!

_King_
03-21-2014, 09:05 AM
I figured they were trying to get Cle and Oak to bid for Schaub...

Showtime100
03-21-2014, 09:10 AM
You did say something about "thinks he's too big for his britches", right ?
But why is that a problem ? I think most of the really successful guys in the NFL have very, very healthy egos. On the Texans, no doubt that both Watt & Cushing are hotdogs to some degree. And some of the best QBs like Brady and Rogers are very self-centered from what I read. I want my best players to
have an attitude about their own abilities, to think and believe they are the best.

(sigh) I asked another poster his opinion about a perceived problem. He answered it. Are you OK with that?

kingtexan
03-21-2014, 09:12 AM
Spouting guesses like they are facts is fun!

Knowing the difference between a guess and an opinion is a decent trait ...

thunderkyss
03-21-2014, 09:14 AM
So is it better for us to trade instead of making him a June 1 cut from a salary cap perspective?

Depends on how you want to look at it.

One thing though, we get a draft pick. May be a 6th, may be a 7th... but if this pick gets bundled with some other asset to improve our team in the future.... say our 3rd plus this pick for Mallet, or our second, this pick, & Case Keenum to move up to the 27th pick... whatever...

Even if we use it to draft Tom Savage I think it's better than whatever additional space we were going to free up & most likely not use.

TheRealJoker
03-21-2014, 09:17 AM
Nope.

Albert Breer @AlbertBreer

Nor should he until he makes better use of his draft picks!

thunderkyss
03-21-2014, 09:17 AM
I got #80.. and #99 :)

I've got two #8s..... A Carr & A Schaub

I've got a #12... Jacoby Jones

A #23..... Foster (it used to say Fostre, but thank God my wife knows her way around a needle & thread)

I've got a cheap Reebok #80....

probably get a #56 this year. Maybe a #5

:kitten:

bOODRO87
03-21-2014, 09:19 AM
I said it once and I'll say it again, good bye forever Matt and Gary. Excellent start to a Friday.

amazing80
03-21-2014, 09:20 AM
Depends on how you want to look at it.

One thing though, we get a draft pick. May be a 6th, may be a 7th... but if this pick gets bundled with some other asset to improve our team in the future.... say our 3rd plus this pick for Mallet, or our second, this pick, & Case Keenum to move up to the 27th pick... whatever...

Even if we use it to draft Tom Savage I think it's better than whatever additional space we were going to free up & most likely not use.

I disagree completely. we should have June 1st cut him and created 10 million in space, then signed a couple guys to fill major holes on this team. Last I looked we need a new, de, ilb, upgrade at olb, another nt, a slot cb, a te, rt, g, qb. Yup lets just get a measly 6th round pick and only save 3.5 million rather than gain 10 m and sign a few guys to IMPROVE our team. This whole organization does dumb ****.

Jackie Chiles
03-21-2014, 09:20 AM
Raiders doctors been feeling frisky, could they nix this trade a la Rodger Saffold?

Mr teX
03-21-2014, 09:21 AM
Bringing Fitzpatrick on...now ditching Schaub... looks like BOB is gonna be rolling with 3 qb's on his roster with his 2014 drafted qb firmly entrenched as the #3. Basically to ensure his qb of the future will not be called into duty under any circumstances this year ....which screams late round developmental qb to me..Mettenberger..Fales...Garappalo.

Or he could do like GB did with Rodgers & take 1 of the 3 top guys somewhere in the 1st after a small trade down from 1:1 & then stash him.

Jackie Chiles
03-21-2014, 09:23 AM
I disagree completely. we should have June 1st cut him and created 10 million in space, then signed a couple guys to fill major holes on this team. Last I looked we need a new, de, ilb, upgrade at olb, another nt, a slot cb, a te, rt, g, qb. Yup lets just get a measly 6th round pick and only save 3.5 million rather than gain 10 m and sign a few guys to IMPROVE our team. This whole organization does dumb ****.

That extra money will be there next year to improve the team. Both avenues had their pros and cons, not sure why you would take such an extreme stance on it. How far can we really go this year?

Blake
03-21-2014, 09:23 AM
Knowing the difference between a guess and an opinion is a decent trait ...

Dont be mad that I called you out for a BS post. You have literally no idea what you are talking about. But carry on.

amazing80
03-21-2014, 09:27 AM
That extra money will be there next year to improve the team. Both avenues had their pros and cons, not sure why you would take such an extreme stance on it. How far can we really go this year?

We have an entire new coaching staff and this year we can sign a few guys and let them learn the system, giving us a great chance next season. instead we will throw scrubs out there, waste another year of our prime players time and then have to have those other guys learn the system in 2015, thus wasting another season. not to mention JJ will be due some money next year, so don't think for a minute that most of that money will be there for us, because it won't.

Guess mediocrity is something Houston fans like :spin:

Jackie Chiles
03-21-2014, 09:31 AM
We have an entire new coaching staff and this year we can sign a few guys and let them learn the system, giving us a great chance next season. instead we will throw scrubs out there, waste another year of our prime players time and then have to have those other guys learn the system in 2015, thus wasting another season. not to mention JJ will be due some money next year, so don't think for a minute that most of that money will be there for us, because it won't.

Guess mediocrity is something Houston fans like :spin:

But if we spend the money for JJ this year how can we pay him next year in your scenario?

kingtexan
03-21-2014, 09:31 AM
Dont be mad that I called you out for a BS post. You have literally no idea what you are talking about. But carry on.

:spit:

BullNation4Life
03-21-2014, 09:32 AM
We have an entire new coaching staff and this year we can sign a few guys and let them learn the system, giving us a great chance next season. instead we will throw scrubs out there, waste another year of our prime players time and then have to have those other guys learn the system in 2015, thus wasting another season. not to mention JJ will be due some money next year, so don't think for a minute that most of that money will be there for us, because it won't.

Guess mediocrity is something Houston fans like :spin:

frustrating as hell, isn't it? Watching teams like Denver sign Talib, Ware and Ward to make another SB run and the Texans sign Fitzpatrick and man named Powe to just save money....

Something is broken and it needs to be fixed over on Kirby...

TheRealJoker
03-21-2014, 09:33 AM
I prefer absorbing everything next year so we are free to pay JJ and make an impact free agent signing or two next year as we push towards contention!

DX-TEX
03-21-2014, 09:34 AM
frustrating as hell, isn't it? Watching teams like Denver sign Talib, Ware and Ward to make another SB run and the Texans sign Fitzpatrick and man named Powe to just save money....

Something is broken and it needs to be fixed over on Kirby...

And how will you feel when Peyton chokes in the playoffs again as usual. Money well spent?

When Peyton retires in a year the Broncos will be in a new kind of cap hell.

corytx8
03-21-2014, 09:34 AM
We have an entire new coaching staff and this year we can sign a few guys and let them learn the system, giving us a great chance next season. instead we will throw scrubs out there, waste another year of our prime players time and then have to have those other guys learn the system in 2015, thus wasting another season. not to mention JJ will be due some money next year, so don't think for a minute that most of that money will be there for us, because it won't.



Guess mediocrity is something Houston fans like :spin:


Or how about you give BOB the benefit of the doubt and allow him to construct his team the way he sees fit first then wait and see where it takes us. Don't knock this coaching staff who have yet to coach a game for this team nor even make his first pick from the draft yet from previous regimes failures.....

djohn2oo8
03-21-2014, 09:34 AM
People want to spend this year must think the Texans are actually close to contending. Idiots.

kingtexan
03-21-2014, 09:35 AM
frustrating as hell, isn't it? Watching teams like Denver sign Talib, Ware and Ward to make another SB run and the Texans sign Fitzpatrick and man named Powe to just save money....

Something is broken and it needs to be fixed over on Kirby...

Rick shafted us on the cap so we don't have the ability to do what Denver did.

Hopefully the next major cut in the organization will be Smith, either this year or next.

For now we have to make the best with what we have and draft wisely.

kingtexan
03-21-2014, 09:37 AM
People want to spend this year must think the Texans are actually close to contending. Idiots.

Don't think I would go as far as categorizing them as idiots.

Sure, contention this year isn't likely, but I wouldn't be surprised if we can get a good QB , if we don't make a strong run at getting a wildcard spot. Maybe 8-8ish is a more realistic expectation for the optimists among us , but I think we still have a decent core group and can win some games.

amazing80
03-21-2014, 09:40 AM
But if we spend the money for JJ this year how can we pay him next year in your scenario?

Do you have an understanding of how the cap works? Do you think money "left over" just carries over next season? If done correctly we will have no problems signing free agents now and having money for JJ. This was one of the best free agency classes EVER and yet we signed Fitzpatrick. :butterfly:

infantrycak
03-21-2014, 09:43 AM
Do you have an understanding of how the cap works? Do you think money "left over" just carries over next season?

Do you? Money left over does carry over (with limitations).

chicagotexan2
03-21-2014, 09:44 AM
Don't think I would go as far as categorizing them as idiots.

Sure, contention this year isn't likely, but I wouldn't be surprised if we can get a good QB , if we don't make a strong run at getting a wildcard spot. Maybe 8-8ish is a more realistic expectation for the optimists among us , but I think we still have a decent core group and can win some games.

Man you are assuming our defense stops playing garbage. I think the team peaked in 2012 and we are in full rebuild mode after last seasons dropoff. I'd like to think we are close to being good again, but I seriously doubt it.

houstonspartan
03-21-2014, 09:46 AM
I've been on the fence about Rick Smith. He should be somewhat responsible for the mess this team is in. However, getting anything in return for Schaub is pure genius, IMO.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk (http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1)

bOODRO87
03-21-2014, 09:48 AM
People actually think we aren't in full rebuild mode? Yeesh. Don't expect much next year.

I'm all for the clean slate. I hated everything about the "Clean, Nice Guy" approach. Texans were SOFT under Gary.

BigBull17
03-21-2014, 09:49 AM
I disagree completely. we should have June 1st cut him and created 10 million in space, then signed a couple guys to fill major holes on this team. Last I looked we need a new, de, ilb, upgrade at olb, another nt, a slot cb, a te, rt, g, qb. Yup lets just get a measly 6th round pick and only save 3.5 million rather than gain 10 m and sign a few guys to IMPROVE our team. This whole organization does dumb ****.

It wouldn't have been a windfall of 10 mil. That money would have to show up on the books next year. Would rather take this kick to the nuts while we're rebuilding and have the 10 mil next year.

thunderkyss
03-21-2014, 09:49 AM
I disagree completely. we should have June 1st cut him and created 10 million in space, then signed a couple guys to fill major holes on this team.

I don't necessarily disagree. I just don't think we would have done that. We're going to sign a bunch of low dollar guys to fill the roster & 8 out of 8 draft picks will make the final 53.

That's the Rick Smith way.

amazing80
03-21-2014, 09:50 AM
Do you? Money left over does carry over (with limitations).

Bingo, it doesn't just compile and accumulate. Signing guys now will affect next years salary, but if done properly will have no barring on signing JJ and bringing in more guys, considering the cap will go up once again. Cutting Schaub would have given us 10 million to sign an ilb, slot corner, pass rusher this season! Instead we roll with trash or unproven rookies. And now we have a journey man qb potentially as our starter. You honestly don't think that's an issue? You all want to "sit back and wait", howd that work out the last 2 coaching staffs? Maybe if the fans spoke up more and stopped being so passive to this organization they would realize we actually want to win here, not just "compete".

Funny how no one is calling out McNair for lieing to our faces calling this a "reload" year NOT a "rebuild" year. Guess the BS starts at the top and rolls downhill. Oh well, in 3 years we will be "reloading" again when our safety, corner, wr and rb are no longer effective. Here's to being .500 for life! :fingergun:

_King_
03-21-2014, 09:52 AM
I don't think this is a total re-build.

Could not disagree with that more.

thunderkyss
03-21-2014, 09:54 AM
And how will you feel when Peyton chokes in the playoffs again as usual. Money well spent?

When Peyton retires in a year the Broncos will be in a new kind of cap hell.

He can choke all day... if Ware, Talib, & Ward do their thing, it won't matter.

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
03-21-2014, 09:54 AM
:BananaWav


http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/18altie927hligif/ku-xlarge.gif


http://usatthebiglead.files.wordpress.com/2013/09/richard-sherman-intercepts-matt-schaub.gif


http://cdn3.sbnation.com/assets/3346061/schaub.gif

Playoffs
03-21-2014, 09:55 AM
Raiders sports radio on the left coast they're arguing, "Matt Schaub is NOT an Al Davis type guy." Al Davis. :ahhaha:

mussop
03-21-2014, 09:55 AM
Matt Schaub traded for a pick six! Imagine that!!!! :kitten:

bOODRO87
03-21-2014, 09:56 AM
Funny how no one is calling out McNair for lieing to our faces calling this a "reload" year NOT a "rebuild" year. Guess the BS starts at the top and rolls downhill. Oh well, in 3 years we will be "reloading" again when our safety, corner, wr and rb are no longer effective. Here's to being .500 for life! :fingergun:

You actually believed him? We haven't seen any Texan-O'Brien football and you're already writing him off. That's the spirit.

_King_
03-21-2014, 09:57 AM
The Raiders are suckers

amazing80
03-21-2014, 09:58 AM
You actually believed him? We haven't seen any Texan-O'Brien football and you're already writing him off. That's the spirit.

It has nothing to do with BOB and everything to do with an organizational pattern.

thunderkyss
03-21-2014, 09:58 AM
:BananaWav


http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/18altie927hligif/ku-xlarge.gif



http://cdn3.sbnation.com/assets/3346061/schaub.gif

Are those from Bridgewater's pro day? That flutter looks awfully similar to what we've been seeing for the last few years.

infantrycak
03-21-2014, 09:59 AM
Bingo, it doesn't just compile and accumulate.

The "with limitations" was not a saviour for your ignorant assertion. Cap does in fact get carried over.

Maybe if you would read a little more thoroughly you would stop slinging around the "everybody" and "nobody" accusations.

chicagotexan2
03-21-2014, 10:00 AM
The feeling I have with Schaubs departure is happiness with a touch of sadness becuase he was productive but not nearly as happy as I was when the Texans severed ties with David Carr who did next to nothing besides get a good haircut.

Jackie Chiles
03-21-2014, 10:03 AM
Do you have an understanding of how the cap works? Do you think money "left over" just carries over next season? If done correctly we will have no problems signing free agents now and having money for JJ. This was one of the best free agency classes EVER and yet we signed Fitzpatrick. :butterfly:

No need to get all salty, I do in fact know a bit about how the cap works.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/8016480/nfl-salary-cap-carryover-rewards-smart-management

Porky
03-21-2014, 10:04 AM
If this isn't a total rebuild then one does not exist. McNair is just playing the masses for fools. The koolaid is tasty boys, drink up.

Glad we are dumping Schaub, I would take almost anything for him. He may have a good game or two but more than likely he'll be roasted there even worse then here by season's end.

What are the odds he plays 16 games at starter for Oakland? He'll be yanked for Prior just like he was yanked for Keenum here. Then he'll backup a yr or two and then go play with all his money and his kids and open an insurance office or a car wash.

thunderkyss
03-21-2014, 10:08 AM
If this isn't a total rebuild then one does not exist. McNair is just playing the masses for fools. The koolaid is tasty boys, drink up.
.

Andre, DeAndre, Foster, Graham, DBrown, Chris Myers, Brooks... seven returning starters on offense.

Jj, Cushing, Whitney, Reed, Kj, Dj, DMan... seven returning starters on defense.

I don't think this is a rebuild.

powda
03-21-2014, 10:09 AM
Still no word on what we got in exchange for schaub?

amazing80
03-21-2014, 10:11 AM
The "with limitations" was not a saviour for your ignorant assertion. Cap does in fact get carried over.

Maybe if you would read a little more thoroughly you would stop slinging around the "everybody" and "nobody" accusations.

First of all you should go back through my posts and my outlines for previous off-seasons, I have a better understanding of the cap than 95% of the people in here and when I don't know something I research an answer. You may not agree with what I say or maybe I am too "vague" for you but to say my post post was an "ignorant assertion" is laughable.

So let me break it down and clarify for you. By cutting Schaub and designating June 1st, we would have gained approximately 10 m. That alone is enough to sign some guys like Carlos Rogers, Pat Angerer and maybe even a pass rusher. A few guys to fill some holes and be role players instead of pumping out scrubs like Sharpton, Reed and McCain.

Second of all, by trading Schaub you have 9 m this year and about 44 m next year. (assuming no one else is signed which won't be accurate but its easier to do this illustration). If you June 1st cut him you bump up to 19 m this year and 37 m next year. Its not as simple as rolling the money over and doing what you wish with it. With bonuses and pro rations you would come out ahead by cutting him, signing guys and then having a bunch of money next year still. Instead you do nothing now, and have just a few million more next year. Its called improving your roster NOW and getting players accustomed to the coaching style and scheme, instead of wasting time.

Dutchrudder
03-21-2014, 10:12 AM
From Walterfootball:

Raiders acquire QB Matt Schaub from Texans for late-round pick
The Raiders' biggest need is still a quarterback. Matt Schaub is far from the answer. He was a system quarterback in Houston, whom Gary Kubiak simply got the most out of. Schaub did play well at times, posting big yardage numbers several years ago when he accumulated a ton of garbage yardage because the Texans' defense was terrible, but after last year, it's difficult to imagine him bouncing back. Schaub, of course, set the NFL record for most consecutive games with a pick-six. This all culminated with the home crowd cheering on his injury, so all of that might still be in his head.

Then again, a fresh start in a new home could be exactly what the doctor ordered. Schaub will once again have excellent quarterback coaching aiding him, as offensive coordinator Greg Olson is one of the best in the business. And for a city starved for competent quarterbacking, the Raider fans won't boo Schaub - at least not for a while.

With all of that said, I don't like this move for the Raiders. The late-round pick is no big deal; it's the $11 million that Oakland must pay that is crucial. Schaub is not a good quarterback, so he definitely doesn't deserve that sort of money. Also, there's a chance that Schaub won't even be the Week 1 starter. The Raiders are still in play for a franchise signal-caller at No. 5 overall or perhaps the second round. If they take one, that quarterback could easily beat out Schaub before the season begins.

As for the Texans, they deserve a very high mark because they were able to obtain something for Schaub. Everyone assumed they were simply going to cut him, yet they were somehow able to dupe the Raiders into surrendering a draft pick for him. That's nice work by Houston being patient.

Grade for Raiders - C-
Grade for Texans - A

WolverineFan
03-21-2014, 10:13 AM
I figured this was coming after the Ryan Fitzpatrick signing. Fitzpatrick isn't an upgrade on Schaub, but he's an upgrade as far as the cap situation goes moving forward IF we were able to get Schaub off the books. Looks like that will be the case.

msbbc833
03-21-2014, 10:14 AM
With 3 QBs on the roster after Schaub's departure, does this mean that we will not be taking a QB with 1-1?

djohn2oo8
03-21-2014, 10:14 AM
Andre, DeAndre, Foster, Graham, DBrown, Chris Myers, Brooks... seven returning starters on offense.

Jj, Cushing, Whitney, Reed, Kj, Dj, DMan... seven returning starters on defense.

I don't think this is a rebuild.

Reed is garbage, along with Mercilus.

_King_
03-21-2014, 10:15 AM
From Walterfootball:

Exactly how I feel about it.

powda
03-21-2014, 10:16 AM
With 3 QBs on the roster after Schaub's departure, does this mean that we will not be taking a QB with 1-1?

No. We'll be selecting a rookie qb...just not certain if in round #1. Yates is going to have a hard time making this team.

Dutchrudder
03-21-2014, 10:17 AM
First of all you should go back through my posts and my outlines for previous off-seasons, I have a better understanding of the cap than 95% of the people in here and when I don't know something I research an answer. You may not agree with what I say or maybe I am too "vague" for you but to say my post post was an "ignorant assertion" is laughable.

So let me break it down and clarify for you. By cutting Schaub and designating June 1st, we would have gained approximately 10 m. That alone is enough to sign some guys like Carlos Rogers, Pat Angerer and maybe even a pass rusher. A few guys to fill some holes and be role players instead of pumping out scrubs like Sharpton, Reed and McCain.

Second of all, by trading Schaub you have 9 m this year and about 44 m next year. (assuming no one else is signed which won't be accurate but its easier to do this illustration). If you June 1st cut him you bump up to 19 m this year and 37 m next year. Its not as simple as rolling the money over and doing what you wish with it. With bonuses and pro rations you would come out ahead by cutting him, signing guys and then having a bunch of money next year still. Instead you do nothing now, and have just a few million more next year. Its called improving your roster NOW and getting players accustomed to the coaching style and scheme, instead of wasting time.

When you make a June 1st Cut, the money that is getting pushed into the following year is not available until... wait for it.... JUNE 1st. So cutting anyone and designating them as such doesn't actually give you that cash to spend on the first week of free agency bonanza. Post-June 1st signings are almost always bargain bin deals, and not impact players. So there really isn't much to gain by cutting Schaub instead of getting a 6th or 7th for him.

And please, tell us more about the cap rollover limitations.

Porky
03-21-2014, 10:20 AM
Andre, DeAndre, Foster, Graham, DBrown, Chris Myers, Brooks... seven returning starters on offense.

Jj, Cushing, Whitney, Reed, Kj, Dj, DMan... seven returning starters on defense.

I don't think this is a rebuild.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-ts-wMltBS2E/TaBHWUJ4SMI/AAAAAAAAAec/rKN7uZEwFSA/s1600/CantPullWoolOverEyes-PhotoCreditCheezburgerCom.jpg

BullNation4Life
03-21-2014, 10:20 AM
With 3 QBs on the roster after Schaub's departure, does this mean that we will not be taking a QB with 1-1?

IMO I think the QB situation looks like so, in no particular order

Bortles
Fitzpatrick
Keenum/Yates (which ever wins the spot in TC)

thunderkyss
03-21-2014, 10:23 AM
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-ts-wMltBS2E/TaBHWUJ4SMI/AAAAAAAAAec/rKN7uZEwFSA/s1600/CantPullWoolOverEyes-PhotoCreditCheezburgerCom.jpg

For got to mention most of those guys are either pro bowlers, high draft picks or both.

msbbc833
03-21-2014, 10:23 AM
IMO I think the QB situation looks like so, in no particular order

Bortles
Fitzpatrick
Keenum/Yates (which ever wins the spot in TC)

That makes sense. I suppose Fitzpatrick is a full time tutor here and one of Keenum/Yates gets cut

LikeMike
03-21-2014, 10:33 AM
So, about the cap: we eat all his salary this year but are off for the next, right?

_King_
03-21-2014, 10:34 AM
Now we trade Yates to the Browns.

infantrycak
03-21-2014, 10:39 AM
First of all you should go back through my posts and my outlines for previous off-seasons, I have a better understanding of the cap than 95% of the people in here and when I don't know something I research an answer.

Clearly that is not the case on either assertion.

Cap carryover - wrong. How June 1st works - wrong. You're 0 for 2. 95% of monkeys with darts would have gotten one correct.

amazing80
03-21-2014, 10:45 AM
When you make a June 1st Cut, the money that is getting pushed into the following year is not available until... wait for it.... JUNE 1st. So cutting anyone and designating them as such doesn't actually give you that cash to spend on the first week of free agency bonanza. Post-June 1st signings are almost always bargain bin deals, and not impact players. So there really isn't much to gain by cutting Schaub instead of getting a 6th or 7th for him.

And please, tell us more about the cap rollover limitations.

If you know how to balance a check book the salary cap is easy. If you June 1st cut someone you know you will have that money. So if you spend youre current cash you will be ok, because you're checking account will get a deposit soon. The salary cap has wiggle room, its not this death ray that if crossed you're limb gets amputated.

Next since you traded schaub his bonus is paid out now, it won't be pro rated. Meaning the hit comes now. If you June 1st cut him it gets prorated. So instead of a bigger hit now we spread it out. Giving us money now and still leaving us money later.

In theory the guy was right, the salary "basically" rolls over, but its much more complicated than that. You don't get all the money you think you do because bonuses get subtracted either right away or over 2 years.

All I was/am trying to say is that IMO you can have your cake and eat it too. You can create room now to sign guys and still leave plenty of room to operate next season. Instead of wasting an entire season. Im not trying to get you guys riled up, but Im just tired of sitting back and never improving while the top dogs keep improving year after year.

amazing80
03-21-2014, 10:48 AM
Clearly that is not the case on either assertion.

Cap carryover - wrong. How June 1st works - wrong. You're 0 for 2. 95% of monkeys with darts would have gotten one correct.

Instead of sitting back with your 42000 lame posts with no insght, why don't you indulge in conversation and add some thought to my "ignorance". Or is that beneath you oh mighty one? :joker:

dream_team
03-21-2014, 10:48 AM
So, about the cap: we eat all his salary this year but are off for the next, right?

My question exactly too. Can some of you "cap gurus" please explain how this will affect our cap situation? I can only assume it's alot better than outright cutting him.

ObsiWan
03-21-2014, 10:50 AM
What will i do with my schaub jersey now?
Dye it black.

amazing80
03-21-2014, 10:52 AM
My question exactly too. Can some of you "cap gurus" please explain how this will affect our cap situation? I can only assume it's alot better than outright cutting him.

Basically it only gives us a few million in cap space this year extra. Next year the rest will be applied.

_King_
03-21-2014, 11:03 AM
What will i do with my schaub jersey now?


Dye it black.

And replace the "A" with an "L".

JB
03-21-2014, 11:04 AM
Basically it only gives us a few million in cap space this year extra. Next year the rest will be applied.

I thought we had $10.5 million in dead money this year against the cap, and none of his would count next year

Craig.
03-21-2014, 11:05 AM
John McClain said this would never happen. John McClain is never wrong. I stand with John McClain.

amazing80
03-21-2014, 11:07 AM
I thought we had $10.5 million in dead money this year against the cap, and none of his would count next year

Schaub will create 10.5 m in dead money this year, but still save us 3.5. We go from whatever we currently have and add 3.5 in space NOW.

It adds approximately 17 m in cap space for next season.

JB
03-21-2014, 11:14 AM
Schaub will create 10.5 m in dead money this year, but still save us 3.5. We go from whatever we currently have and add 3.5 in space NOW.

It adds approximately 17 m in cap space for next season.

That is how I understood it. I misunderstood what you were saying

amazing80
03-21-2014, 11:16 AM
That is how I understood it. I misunderstood what you were saying

Sorry for the confusion. :fingergun:

Dutchrudder
03-21-2014, 11:19 AM
I thought we had $10.5 million in dead money this year against the cap, and none of his would count next year

That's how it works in this scenario. If he was a June 1 cut, it would be something like 3.5m this year and 7m next year.

dream_team
03-21-2014, 11:20 AM
Schaub will create 10.5 m in dead money this year, but still save us 3.5. We go from whatever we currently have and add 3.5 in space NOW.

It adds approximately 17 m in cap space for next season.

So you're saying the dead money for this season still applies. But after this season, we are 100% free from Schaub's salary in regards to the cap?

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
03-21-2014, 11:22 AM
So you're saying the dead money for this season still applies. But after this season, we are 100% free from Schaub's salary in regards to the cap?



Correct

Brisco_County
03-21-2014, 11:24 AM
Pending a physical.

According to ESPN’s Adam Schefter, the Raiders are ready to trade a low-round draft pick for Schaub and make him their starting quarterback. Fox Sports’ Mike Garafolo confirmed that the trade is a done deal, pending a physical.

Of course, the main issue is not the low pick Oakland will give up — it’s the five-year, $66.15 million contract Schaub signed in Sept., 2012. That contract goes with Schaub, and it guarantees him a $10 million base salary, plus $1 million total in per-game-roster bonuses.

Link (http://nfl.si.com/2014/03/21/matt-schaub-oakland-raiders-trade-houston-texans/)

Writer Doug Farrar concludes:

This is the kind of move that gets people fired.

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
03-21-2014, 11:27 AM
Hopefully Schaub passes his physical and it isn't intercepted.

infantrycak
03-21-2014, 11:27 AM
Instead of sitting back with your 42000 lame posts with no insght, why don't you indulge in conversation and add some thought to my "ignorance". Or is that beneath you oh mighty one? :joker:

You are conflating two separate issues.

1) unused cap can carry over. No further discussion is necessary on that you were just wrong.

2) June 1st cuts. This is not an issue of unused cap. It is how used cap gets accounted. Dutch has explained about the availability of cap room gained with the June 1st option as it applies to the Texans signing free agents right now. For Schaub the difference is non-June 1st cut or trade: 2014 $10.5 mil, 2015 0 v. June 1st cut: 2014 $3.5 mil, 2015 $7 mil. Neither involves cap space carry over.

In fact Dutch, several others and I have explained both of these things many times over the past few weeks so neither should be a revelation. And don't act so put upon - this started because you condescended to someone else with an incorrect assertion about cap carryover.

ObsiWan
03-21-2014, 11:34 AM
Since the entire team will be learning a new system this year.. I'll say taking the hit now and being free and clear next year is a lot better.. Especially since we'll have to resign Watt.

Andre, DeAndre, Foster, Graham, DBrown, Chris Myers, Brooks... seven returning starters on offense.

Jj, Cushing, Whitney, Reed, Kj, Dj, DMan... seven returning starters on defense.

I don't think this is a rebuild.
If it ain't a rebuild it's serious makeover.
New starters at QB, RT, RG, TE, DE, NT, ILB, and OLB, and nickel CB; yeah, that's a serious makeover.

infantrycak
03-21-2014, 11:37 AM
This has to be one of the worst semantic cluster fornications of all time.

Hervoyel
03-21-2014, 11:38 AM
Reed is garbage, along with Mercilus.

Disagree..... with a condition. If Rac changes what these players are being asked to do and they don't improve then OK, I'll agree with that. What are the odds of Wade Phillips and Romeo Crennel both being just too incompetent to put them in a position to succeed right?

I want to see what Crennel does with them first. That's all I'm saying. You might very well be right and the evidence doesn't exactly make a case for either of them but I'd still like to see what happens before giving up all hope.

amazing80
03-21-2014, 11:39 AM
You are conflating two separate issues.

1) unused cap can carry over. No further discussion is necessary on that you were just wrong.

2) June 1st cuts. This is not an issue of unused cap. It is how used cap gets accounted. Dutch has explained about the availability of cap room gained with the June 1st option as it applies to the Texans signing free agents right now. For Schaub the difference is non-June 1st cut or trade: 2014 $10.5 mil, 2015 0 v. June 1st cut: 2014 $3.5 mil, 2015 $7 mil. Neither involves cap space carry over.

In fact Dutch, several others and I have explained both of these things many times over the past few weeks so neither should be a revelation. And don't act so put upon - this started because you condescended to someone else with an incorrect assertion about cap carryover.


Depending on what is done "cap carryover" (as you call it) is greatly affected on what you do. You call it carry over i don't. Its money already spent that simply gets applied differently depending on the choice you make with the player. Its either applied now or later, not "carried over".

I also don't consider unused cap as carrying over. To me carrying over means accumulating. When in reality the cap is set and players come on and off the team and their salaries follow. Its not carrying over its simply salaries being applied or not applied. The 20 million doesn't carry over, it will be there if not spent or will not be there if spent. Maybe my thought process is confusing or something, but its not incorrect.

HOU-TEX
03-21-2014, 11:40 AM
There's no doubt that Schaub needed a new start somewhere else. That said, he'll likely be better this season than any QB we start in 2014. It's unfortunate, but the Fitz won't be better nor will a rookie in this year's draft.

A year or two away......again

Hervoyel
03-21-2014, 11:40 AM
If it ain't a rebuild it's serious makeover.
New starters at QB, RT, RG, TE, DE, NT, ILB, and OLB, and nickel CB; yeah, that's a serious makeover.

Serious makeover sounds about right to me. I think we'll have to wait until the end of 2014 to get a definitive statement out of the Texans. If they come out next year and surprise everyone, hit on a few key picks and signings, win 8-10 games somehow then it was a makeover. If things don't go well they'll admit that they were rebuilding.

amazing80
03-21-2014, 11:40 AM
This has to be one of the worst semantic cluster fornications of all time.

There goes another one liner with nothing to do with this thread, some would call that post padding :spin:

HOU-TEX
03-21-2014, 11:42 AM
"Pocket sloth", per LZ

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BjQXPsyCUAEr2Gv.jpg

TheMatrix31
03-21-2014, 11:48 AM
A rebuild is when you get rid of all your best players. We still have ours.

Also, thinking this is a rebuild means you think 2011 and 2012 were the fluke years, not 2013.

There is such a thing as retooling. You know who's rebuilding? The Raiders.

Hate that Schaub has to go to Oakland, but I'm glad we got a pick and I'm glad it frees up a lot of money.

infantrycak
03-21-2014, 11:52 AM
Depending on what is done "cap carryover" (as you call it) is greatly affected on what you do. You call it carry over i don't. Its money already spent that simply gets applied differently depending on the choice you make with the player. Its either applied now or later, not "carried over".

I also don't consider unused cap as carrying over. To me carrying over means accumulating. When in reality the cap is set and players come on and off the team and their salaries follow. Its not carrying over its simply salaries being applied or not applied. The 20 million doesn't carry over, it will be there if not spent or will not be there if spent. Maybe my thought process is confusing or something, but its not incorrect.

Yes it is incorrect.

Unused cap/carryover: Say the cap is $130 mil in 2014 and $140 mil in 2015. If the Texans only use $125 mil of cap in 2014 they can carry $5 mil over to 2015 and their cap for 2015 will be $145. Yes what you do to get to $125 v. $127 mil in 2014 affects how much carryover is available but whatever is remainder is carryover. It moves cap space from one year to the next.

June 1st ONLY deals with dead money accounting - money which has already been spent which must appear on the cap somewhere. It's a zero sum game as the total amount is the same it is just a question of whether it gets accounted for in one year or two. It doesn't move cap space it uses the available cap space differently.

htownfan32
03-21-2014, 12:15 PM
How on earth did Rick Smith ever sell this to the Raiders?
If we get a 6th or 7th it's still a good deal but if we get a 5th... it's practically a coup.

Dutchrudder
03-21-2014, 12:18 PM
Depending on what is done "cap carryover" (as you call it) is greatly affected on what you do. You call it carry over i don't. Its money already spent that simply gets applied differently depending on the choice you make with the player. Its either applied now or later, not "carried over".

I also don't consider unused cap as carrying over. To me carrying over means accumulating. When in reality the cap is set and players come on and off the team and their salaries follow. Its not carrying over its simply salaries being applied or not applied. The 20 million doesn't carry over, it will be there if not spent or will not be there if spent. Maybe my thought process is confusing or something, but its not incorrect.

...

Carrying Over Room. A Club may "carry over" Room from one
League Year to the following League Year by submitting notice in writing signed by the
owner to the NFL no later than fourteen (14) days prior to the start of the next League
Year indicating the maximum amount of Room that the Club wishes to carry over. The
NFL shall prompdy provide a copy of any such notice to the NFLP A. The amount of
Room carried over will be adjusted downward based on the final Room available after
the year-end reconciliation


NFL 2011 Collective Bargaining Agreement (http://images.nflplayers.com/mediaResources/files/PDFs/General/2011_Final_CBA_Searchable.pdf)

eriadoc
03-21-2014, 12:18 PM
Shouldn't the Matt Schaub threads be in the NFL section? He's not a Texan. :)

powda
03-21-2014, 12:22 PM
John McClain said this would never happen. John McClain is never wrong. I stand with John McClain.

If you stand to close to him at lunch he might eat you.

kingtexan
03-21-2014, 12:25 PM
Shouldn't the Matt Schaub threads be in the NFL section? He's not a Texan. :)

Exactly ... get that name away from the team page.

WolverineFan
03-21-2014, 12:28 PM
How on earth did Rick Smith ever sell this to the Raiders?
If we get a 6th or 7th it's still a good deal but if we get a 5th... it's practically a coup.

Raiders don't have a 5th round pick this year. They traded it to Seattle for Matt Flynn.

texanskan
03-21-2014, 12:30 PM
Raiders don't have a 5th round pick this year. They traded it to Seattle for Matt Flynn.

lol, they never learn

Yaky
03-21-2014, 12:31 PM
How on earth did Rick Smith ever sell this to the Raiders?
If we get a 6th or 7th it's still a good deal but if we get a 5th... it's practically a coup.

Raiders have a lot of cap which they have to spend.

Nitrofish
03-21-2014, 12:33 PM
Shouldn't the Matt Schaub threads be in the NFL section? He's not a Texan. :)

Exactly ... get that name away from the team page.

Both of you are wrong. This deal is just a rumor, it has not happened yet. MS is still a Texan.

EDIT: Plus, with that horrible degenerative injury he has, how do you expect him to pass a physical?

Thorn
03-21-2014, 12:33 PM
Well, I'm still not sure about Rick Smith being that good of a GM, but he ought to at least get salesman of the year award for this.