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View Full Version : OK so here's why you don't pay any attention to Pro Day 40 Times


IDEXAN
03-12-2014, 08:58 AM
UCLA head coach Jim Mora was one of the few who successsfully broke through the free-agent noise Tuesday when he tweeted that linebacker Anthony Barr ran the 40-yard dash in an electronically timed 4.45 seconds at his pro day. That unofficial time was a whopping .22-second improvement over Barr's time at the NFL Scouting Combine last month and should further fuel the debate on the top linebacker in this year's draft.
But the time was also met with plenty of skepticism, and rightfully so. It's one thing to improve a little on your time from the combine, but a drop of .22 seconds is nearly unheard of. Mora emphasized afterward that the Bruins' times he reported were simply what the timers gave him.
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The numbers put up in Westwood caused more head-scratching when the program listed six -- yes, six -- 40 times of under 4.4 seconds by Bruins at the pro day, according to Bruins strength and conditioning coach Sal Alosi.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000333239/article/anthony-barrs-pro-day-40-time-met-with-some-skepticism

Playoffs
03-12-2014, 09:03 AM
Grain of salt when the whole team runs 4.3s. Nobody's buying those.

Mora says, "but it's electronic!"

_King_
03-12-2014, 09:05 AM
That's why I like combine 40's/workouts.

It's about as equal as you're going to get.

infantrycak
03-12-2014, 09:12 AM
You're using an example of something being an extreme outlier to debunk all of it. Allllllllllrighty then.

Scooter
03-12-2014, 09:14 AM
this is why football games are more important to me than track meets. seeing 20+ games of a guy's real world speed gets thrown out the window because of what he does in a prepared sprint in little more than underwear. if i were any part of a team's management, i'd have bret hart on speed dial. any scout to mention 40 time would be drop-kicked, and then promptly fired.

TexansFTW
03-12-2014, 09:53 AM
this is why football games are more important to me than track meets. seeing 20+ games of a guy's real world speed gets thrown out the window because of what he does in a prepared sprint in little more than underwear. if i were any part of a team's management, i'd have bret hart on speed dial. any scout to mention 40 time would be drop-kicked, and then promptly fired.

lol, well said bro and good Hitman reference. How often are WRs running free in underwear without getting chipped at the line on the football field?

Scooter
03-12-2014, 10:07 AM
what i would love to know, and doubt armchairs like myself ever will find out, is if 40 times are even used by clubs. i get that there are instances where it may have it's uses, such as with kick returners or deep potential receivers or possibly safeties. i get that other athletic drills and position drills can give scouts a more close up and pin point view of specific movements such as hip turn with corners or shoulder angles with linemen. other than that, i dont get it. i can at this moment watch a water balloon explode in 1000's of a second, but teams need a timed sprint to tell them how fast a player goes from an unrealistic starting point to chasing down a busted play after his pads fall off?

IDEXAN
03-12-2014, 10:08 AM
You're using an example of something being an extreme outlier to debunk all of it. Allllllllllrighty then.
Granted the difference between the PD times and the Combine times here is more extreme than usual which makes them even more suspect, but the PD performances for the 40s are virtually always superior to corresponding Indy times for the same athlete if he did perform at both events.
Everybody is timed by the same people, on the same running surface, in the same conditions for the Indy Combine so there's no question of preferencial treatment or partisanship or worse.

infantrycak
03-12-2014, 10:45 AM
Granted the difference between the PD times and the Combine times here is more extreme than usual which makes them even more suspect, but the PD performances for the 40s are virtually always superior to corresponding Indy times for the same athlete if he did perform at both events.
Everybody is timed by the same people, on the same running surface, in the same conditions for the Indy Combine so there's no question of preferencial treatment or partisanship or worse.

Everyone has said for a decade that Indy is a slow surface. I am not running Indy down and it is the best baseline but faster times elsewhere are not some grand conspiracy. It has that reputation on game day too.

what i would love to know, and doubt armchairs like myself ever will find out, is if 40 times are even used by clubs. i get that there are instances where it may have it's uses, such as with kick returners or deep potential receivers or possibly safeties. i get that other athletic drills and position drills can give scouts a more close up and pin point view of specific movements such as hip turn with corners or shoulder angles with linemen. other than that, i dont get it. i can at this moment watch a water balloon explode in 1000's of a second, but teams need a timed sprint to tell them how fast a player goes from an unrealistic starting point to chasing down a busted play after his pads fall off?

Well they all do it. Not only do they take down the reported numbers, they universally have guys doing their own hand timing as well so they care enough for that. Whether that's smart is another matter.

Playoffs
03-12-2014, 11:12 AM
what i would love to know, and doubt armchairs like myself ever will find out, is if 40 times are even used by clubs...

Yes. Speed is important in many positions. 40 times help reinforce the tape evaluations or cause you to go back and re-watch. Also, watching prospects run can give you cause to go back to the tape if they appear stiff/unathletic. But the vast majority of a prospect's evaluation is what he put on tape.

Teams used to have their own "clock guys" who they used to time as many prospects as he could in an attempt for consistent times prospect-to-prospect, year-to-year.

Scooter
03-12-2014, 11:22 AM
edit: drunk posting again.

leebigeztx
03-12-2014, 06:50 PM
40 times are more about explosion. Every sub 4.5 guy I ever knew could jump out the gym. The more explosion your legs can generate,the faster you can run.

I watch the 40 with my with who was a college sprinter. She will call times out and be as accurate as anyone I've ever seen. A lot of the 40 is technique with football guys. You also want to see is the game speed matches.