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IDEXAN
03-10-2014, 03:09 PM
HUMBLE — Fourth-year tight end Garrett Graham said Monday he’s still in the initial stage of exploring his options as an unrestricted free agent. If Graham has his way, though, he’ll remain with the team that drafted him.

Graham, 27, caught 49 passes for 545 yards and five touchdowns last season for the Texans. He filled in well for starter Owen Daniels, who was limited to five games due to injury, and could form a strong receiving pair with second-year tight end Ryan Griffin as the Texans move into their next era.

“I just want to play for a team where I’m going to be utilized and I can make some plays,” said Graham, during a media interview prior to wide receiver Andre Johnson’s charity golf tournament at the Golf Club of Houston.

Graham said the Texans haven’t let him know he’s a “priority” during free agency. However, he acknowledged it’s still early in the process and multiple issues will factor into his decision.

“It’s kind of been slow so far but that’s expected at this point,” Graham said.
http://blog.chron.com/ultimatetexans/2014/03/garrett-graham-wants-to-remain-with-texans/

bOODRO87
03-10-2014, 04:06 PM
He contacted my place of work asking about a Wisconsin or Texans logo on our product. This was last week so I think he's staying.

CloakNNNdagger
03-12-2014, 09:30 AM
Tight end market could pick up today
March, 12, 2014
By Tania Ganguli | ESPN.com

I had operated under the assumption this offseason that the Texans' tight end situation was an either-or scenario.

Either Owen Daniels or Garrett Graham.

Graham
But having released Daniels on Tuesday, the Texans are also facing the prospect of losing Graham, who is far from a sure thing to be re-signed at this point.

Yesterday Graham characterized negotiations between his people and the Texans as "slow." Graham hit the market yesterday without a deal in place with the Texans. The tight end market as a whole has been slow and could pick up today, now that the first wave of signings is out of the way.

If it happens, losing Graham could mean a very young group of tight ends in Houston. Ryan Griffin showed promise last year, but he'd be a second-year player expected to take a huge jump. The most veteran of the group would be Zach Potter, who the Texans signed last month. Potter spent 2009 to 2012 with the Jaguars. And I could see them adding another drafted tight end in what's not an especially deep tight end draft class. (Depth is in the eye of the beholder, though. After all, Griffin's ability doesn't match a sixth rounder's.) The Rest of the Story (http://espn.go.com/blog/houston-texans/post/_/id/4423/tight-end-market-could-pick-up-today?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter)

Playoffs
03-12-2014, 09:34 AM
If a team lets their player hit free agency it's less likely he'll return. We'll see what the market bears.

HOU-TEX
03-12-2014, 09:46 AM
Should we have a thread for potential signees?

Tania Ganguli ‏@taniaganguli · 35m
#Texans among 5 potential teams for TE Brandon Pettigrew, per @mikesilver. I wrote about his potential fit in Houston http://ow.ly/uvwN2

infantrycak
03-12-2014, 10:23 AM
Should we have a thread for potential signees?

There is a potential free agents thread.

srrono
03-13-2014, 11:24 AM
John McClain ‏@McClain_on_NFL 25s

Garrett Graham agrees to deal Texans.

srrono
03-13-2014, 11:27 AM
Dave Zangaro ‏@DZangaro 1m

It's a three-year deal for Graham, who remains in Houston. #Texans


Tania Ganguli ‏@taniaganguli 1m

Graham becomes the first player the #Texans have signed or re-signed since the new league year opened.

_King_
03-13-2014, 11:29 AM
I like Graham...I think more than a lot of people...

But I don't know if I'd have brought him back...Guess it depends on the price...I'm guessing it's a bargain...

Allstar
03-13-2014, 12:11 PM
Graham and Griffin at least sounds cooler than Gronkowski and Hernandez :)

TexansFTW
03-13-2014, 12:20 PM
Do yall think we still go after a TE in the draft now that we have resigned him or do you think this ends that talk of ASJ or Jace Amaro entirely?

HoustonFrog
03-13-2014, 12:52 PM
Evan Silva ‏@evansilva · 1h
#Texans second-year TE Ryan Griffin has far more upside than Garrett Graham, who is small, slow, and can't block.

Dutchrudder
03-13-2014, 12:56 PM
Do yall think we still go after a TE in the draft now that we have resigned him or do you think this ends that talk of ASJ or Jace Amaro entirely?

Depends on how the draft falls. If there are no TEs taken in the 1st, then maybe they will take their pick. Amaro and ASJ could go late 1st, in which case I think we pass, since there are only a handful of TEs worth of a 1-4 round pick this year.

I think they will get an OT at 2-1 if there isn't a run on the position at the end of the 1st, and we don't pick up a decent on in free agency.

CloakNNNdagger
03-13-2014, 01:00 PM
Evan Silva ‏@evansilva · 1h
#Texans second-year TE Ryan Griffin has far more upside than Garrett Graham, who is small, slow, and can't block.

These are the points I posted in the past and found many on the other side of the argument. I believe that outside of a cheap acquisition, it will not prove to be a particularly productive one.

Playoffs
03-13-2014, 01:20 PM
Dave Zangaro ‏@DZangaro
A source confirms Graham's deal with the #Texans is worth $11.25 million over three years...

Mark Berman ‏@MarkBermanFox26
Garrett Graham's three year deal with the Texans is worth $11.25 million, with $4.5 million guaranteed.

Hervoyel
03-13-2014, 01:21 PM
Graham costs less than Daniels and I suspect that the coaches expect Griffin to leap over him on the depth chart anyway. They'll go get another good prospect in the latter half of the draft and go from there. That's what I think.

MistaRed
03-13-2014, 01:58 PM
Graham and Griffin at least sounds cooler than Gronkowski and Hernandez :)

Graham & Griffin, Attorneys at Law

TheMatrix31
03-13-2014, 02:07 PM
Good. Graham was a solid contributor. Glad to have him back.

Playoffs
03-13-2014, 02:14 PM
Graham & Griffin, Attorneys at Law
Graham, Griffin & Niklas/Fiedorowicz sounds more intimidating. :kitten:

Troy Chapman
03-13-2014, 03:20 PM
Basically a 1 year deal if needed, like it.

IDEXAN
03-13-2014, 04:16 PM
Thoughts from others if Graham is "just a guy", or something more than that ?
My own opinion is that he's got good hands, and is a better blocker than he's given credit for, but he is slow and smallish size wise.

WolverineFan
03-13-2014, 04:23 PM
Texans TE Garrett Graham says new coach Bill O'Brien plans to use him as a "move tight end, an H-back."


Looks like Graham will play the Hernandez role while Griffin plays the Gronkowski position. I definitely like Graham as more of an H-Back than an in-line TE, but he still lacks the athleticism to create mismatches.

I actually like Griffin in the Gronk role, but we really need depth at TE regardless.

TexansFTW
03-13-2014, 04:33 PM
Everyone dogging on Graham because Roto's idiot board of advisers are doing it should relax. Roto's news breaking is legit and can't be denied, but their "analysts" are wrong just as much as they are right.

Graham is pretty OK, but he's not terrible like others, especially Roto, are making him out to be. He's a solid TE and is worth the price he is paid. He's not a game changer, but he is solid.

Ryan Griffin is NOT better or more athletic than Graham, that is absolute hogwash.

Roto's latest entry is saying he pales in comparison to A Hernandez. Obviously he's not the same guy, but he's not this "overpaid" loser they are making out.

For comparison sake with regards to athleticism:

He's taller. Runs only 0.07 seconds slower 40 time than Hernandez (Graham did his in the slow combine though versus Florida pro day). And only a 0.17 second slower 3 cone drill. So his athleticism isn't this 75 YO man I'm reading about.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-combine/09000d5d816d3588/2010-Combine-workout-Garrett-Graham

What he doesn't do well, IMO, is create enough seperation in his routes to cleanly come up with the ball, but that's always been Owen Daniel's story as well post-ACL.

TexansFTW
03-13-2014, 04:40 PM
He contacted my place of work asking about a Wisconsin or Texans logo on our product. This was last week so I think he's staying.

Very saucy inside information. If you post something like this again I will actually pay it attention next time.

TexansSeminole
03-13-2014, 04:40 PM
We had serious depth issues at TE, so this move makes sense. Graham is worth the contract given, simple as that.

bOODRO87
03-13-2014, 04:46 PM
Very saucy inside information. If you post something like this again I will actually pay it attention next time.

Yup, a Seahawk fan in Customer Service called me over. "Look who wants a custom logo cooler." Ok, I'll let you guys in on something with Garrett. He uses Gmail.. Coincidence? I think not.

thunderkyss
03-13-2014, 04:50 PM
Graham is pretty OK, but he's not terrible like others, especially Roto, are making him out to be. He's a solid TE and is worth the price he is paid. He's not a game changer, but he is solid.


I don't understand all this, "TE can't run block" talk. I think that's his strong suit. Not worth a dang protecting the QB & avg as a receiver. But he's an above average run blocker.

DX-TEX
03-13-2014, 04:53 PM
I don't understand all this, "TE can't run block" talk. I think that's his strong suit. Not worth a dang protecting the QB & avg as a receiver. But he's an above average run blocker.

Kubes?

CloakNNNdagger
03-13-2014, 05:23 PM
Everyone dogging on Graham because Roto's idiot board of advisers are doing it should relax. Roto's news breaking is legit and can't be denied, but their "analysts" are wrong just as much as they are right.

Graham is pretty OK, but he's not terrible like others, especially Roto, are making him out to be. He's a solid TE and is worth the price he is paid. He's not a game changer, but he is solid.

Ryan Griffin is NOT better or more athletic than Graham, that is absolute hogwash.

Roto's latest entry is saying he pales in comparison to A Hernandez. Obviously he's not the same guy, but he's not this "overpaid" loser they are making out.

For comparison sake with regards to athleticism:

He's taller. Runs only 0.07 seconds slower 40 time than Hernandez (Graham did his in the slow combine though versus Florida pro day). And only a 0.17 second slower 3 cone drill. So his athleticism isn't this 75 YO man I'm reading about.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-combine/09000d5d816d3588/2010-Combine-workout-Garrett-Graham

What he doesn't do well, IMO, is create enough seperation in his routes to cleanly come up with the ball, but that's always been Owen Daniel's story as well post-ACL.

Graham last year wasn't even close to OK. Add Profootballfocus to the negative evaluations.

Here's their rankings of 2014 Free Agent Tight Ends (https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2014/01/01/2014-free-agent-tight-ends/)...........35 out of 38.

When Profootballfocus presented their end of 2013 year rankings for ALL TEs.......Graham was almost at the very bottom of the list. When Football Outsiders (http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/TE)presented their numbers in relationship to the passing game, he was next to dead last.

That's far from OK in my book. That down right stinks. And short of total turn around in a quasi new position, I will remain extremely skeptical re. his value to this team. I'm just wondering how valuable the team really thinks he is. Will be interesting to see how much guaranteed money is in his contract.

TexansFTW
03-13-2014, 05:39 PM
Graham last year wasn't even close to OK. Add Profootballfocus to the negative evaluations.

Here's their rankings of 2014 Free Agent Tight Ends (https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2014/01/01/2014-free-agent-tight-ends/)...........35 out of 38.

When Profootballfocus presented their end of 2013 year rankings for ALL TEs.......Graham was almost at the very bottom of the list. When Football Outsiders (http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/TE)presented their numbers in relationship to the passing game, he was next to dead last.

That's far from OK in my book. That down right stinks. And short of total turn around in a quasi new position, I will remain extremely skeptical re. his value to this team. I'm just wondering how valuable the team really thinks he is. Will be interesting to see how much guaranteed money is in his contract.

I respect PFF so I gotta hear you out on this, but did you see this list bro? You're telling me these guys are all better? Many of these guys will be lucky to be in the NFL this year. This list is absolutely wack.

What the hell are the Panthers gonna do this year if Ben Hartsock walks??? How will they replace his 2 catches for 30 yards playing 30% of the offensive snaps this year??! That playoff run was short lived.

http://i.imgur.com/cMvkZy2.jpg

I like Football Outsiders too, but c'mon bro... how is your "adjusted" yards with their advanced stats gonna be LESS yards than he actually got on the football field? "I know he had like 550 yards in 13 games played, but I'm gonna create a metric that credits you with only 300." What??

I hear you on every subject except this, I gotta disagree with you here.

bah007
03-13-2014, 05:46 PM
I was a big fan of Graham in college but I've been disappointed in him. He's average to below average in every category. I thought Griffin was a lot better last year and he's barely scratched the surface.

Graham fits as the move TE but I wouldn't be surprised if we picked up another one somewhere. Example: draft A.C. Leonard in the 5th and play him off the bench behind Graham. Cut Graham next year and work Leonard into a starting role.

Goldensilence
03-13-2014, 06:02 PM
Not thrilled with this contract to be honest unless it's structured with an easier cap hit for bring cut next year. It's starter money, but how quality of a starter is he?

I mean we got cap relief on cutting Daniel, but turn around and give out this contract? Its an upgrade at paying TE, but not much. How much of a real upgrade on the field? Not much really over OD.

More I think bout it, more disappointed I become with this signing.

Wolf6151
03-13-2014, 06:45 PM
Do yall think we still go after a TE in the draft now that we have resigned him or do you think this ends that talk of ASJ or Jace Amaro entirely?

With this signing I think if we take a TE it will be late, 5-7 round range. Graham's contract is essentially a 1 yr. deal which is a little high, but we've got bigger things to worry about than 3rd string TE.

Insideop
03-13-2014, 07:01 PM
Do yall think we still go after a TE in the draft now that we have resigned him or do you think this ends that talk of ASJ or Jace Amaro entirely?

It may not be as high a priority now with the signing of Graham but I'm pretty sure they will still draft one. Probably in the mid to later rounds like the 4th, 5th, or 6th.

Playoffs
03-13-2014, 07:28 PM
Thoughts from others if Graham is "just a guy", or something more than that ?
My own opinion is that he's got good hands, and is a better blocker than he's given credit for, but he is slow and smallish size wise.

Graham was a poor blocker in the assignments he was given with Kubes, and that makes up the bulk of his poor overall rating.

As the "move" TE, his blocking assignments will be easier and he can showcase his pass-catching which he's above average in. GG doesn't quite have the quicks for the prototypical move TE to create the mismatch, but his drop rate is good. (As is Griffin's)

GG has the potential to do well in OB's schemes, imo, depending on the other offensive pieces we assemble. We know he's a worker.

_King_
03-13-2014, 07:36 PM
Graham was a poor blocker in the assignments he was given with Kubes, and that makes up the bulk of his poor overall rating.

As the "move" TE, his blocking assignments will be easier and he can showcase his pass-catching which he's above average in. GG doesn't quite have the quicks for the prototypical move TE to create the mismatch, but his drop rate is good. (As is Griffin's)

GG has the potential to do well in OB's schemes, imo, depending on the other offensive pieces we assemble. We know he's a worker.

This.

This will be a different offense this year. No matter who is under center.

Graham should see more opportunities in space.

TexansFTW
03-13-2014, 10:26 PM
Not thrilled with this contract to be honest unless it's structured with an easier cap hit for bring cut next year. It's starter money, but how quality of a starter is he?

I mean we got cap relief on cutting Daniel, but turn around and give out this contract? Its an upgrade at paying TE, but not much. How much of a real upgrade on the field? Not much really over OD.

More I think bout it, more disappointed I become with this signing.

He's not getting paid nearly as much as you are making it seem. 11.25 MM / 3 years is at the very bottom end of starter money in the NFL unless your starter is a rookie

http://overthecap.com/top-player-salaries.php?Position=TE

After this resigning I am done with wanting a late round TE. Rather gamble on late round Lineman and Linebackers. Linebackers generally make solid ST guys.

I'm tired of the mediocre TE game and will be P'd if we waste another late round pick on one. I either want a legit TE or none at all. Since it's been addressed in FA (resigning) I'd rather just wait until next year to address it.

Lucky
03-13-2014, 10:42 PM
Do yall think we still go after a TE in the draft now that we have resigned him or do you think this ends that talk of ASJ or Jace Amaro entirely?
I don't know about a specific TE prospect, but I do think the Texans look at TE somewhere in the 3rd-5th rounds. Specifically, a guy who can play TE in a base formation.

Graham costs less than Daniels and I suspect that the coaches expect Griffin to leap over him on the depth chart anyway. They'll go get another good prospect in the latter half of the draft and go from there. That's what I think.
I think you're right about looking for another TE in the draft. I think the Griffin jocking on this board is over the top. Griffin has yet to become as good a TE as Graham. And we don't know if he ever will be.

Graham last year wasn't even close to OK. Add Profootballfocus to the negative evaluations.

Here's their rankings of 2014 Free Agent Tight Ends (https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2014/01/01/2014-free-agent-tight-ends/)...........35 out of 38.
I'm not going to jock Graham. Like most of the Texans in 2013, he wasn't good. A 2-14 team will receive a ton of negative evaluations. But, he's also not the worst TE in the league. $4.5 million guaranteed sounds about right.

steelbtexan
03-13-2014, 10:55 PM
I respect PFF so I gotta hear you out on this, but did you see this list bro? You're telling me these guys are all better? Many of these guys will be lucky to be in the NFL this year. This list is absolutely wack.

What the hell are the Panthers gonna do this year if Ben Hartsock walks??? How will they replace his 2 catches for 30 yards playing 30% of the offensive snaps this year??! That playoff run was short lived.

http://i.imgur.com/cMvkZy2.jpg

I like Football Outsiders too, but c'mon bro... how is your "adjusted" yards with their advanced stats gonna be LESS yards than he actually got on the football field? "I know he had like 550 yards in 13 games played, but I'm gonna create a metric that credits you with only 300." What??

I hear you on every subject except this, I gotta disagree with you here.

There are 3 parts to a TE's game. Catching the ball/ stretching the seam and catching ball/Blocking. These are all very important and you rarely find a TE that is good at all 3. If you find one they are usually HOF caliber players. (John Mackey/Charlie Sanders/Kellen Winslow etc.... Gronk/Olsen/Whitten/Gonzales are the best all around TE's right now. Then you have the best TE's at doing 2 things (Catching/stretching the seam but are adequate blockers. (J.Graham/Jared Cook/Hernandez etc...) These guys are very invaluable also. Then you've got the type TE's that are blockers and occasionally catch the ball. Anthony Fasano/Kleinsasser/Pettigrew etc.... these guys are very valuable because they help you pick up 3rd and 1's that help keep drives alive.

Tell me which of these areas do you think Graham stands out? To be above avg you need to standout in 1 area. Which is why TE's like Hartsock have long NFL careers and are rated higher than TE's like G. Graham. If he caught 550 yds worth of balls it appears that PFF has downgraded G.Grahams blocking to the tune of about 200 yds so that's how they came up with the lesser yds than G.Graham actually caught.

As far as re-signing Graham, I would've rather that precious cap $$$$ be spent on a RT/NT/S/ILB/CB. You can easily find talents of Grahams caliber in rds 5-7. A.C.Leonard/Lyerla/Gilmore/Najvar. So this signing reeks of the same F.O. philosophy that has lead to 2-14. IMHO (Paying avg/to below avg homegrown players) Instead of pooling your $$$$ and bringing in one above avg starter the Texans seem to think 2 avg starters are better than 1 above avg starter and bringing in a vet min/rookie late rd guy. You know kind of like Denver (J.Thomas/Jordan Reed/Scott Chandler etc....

Doesn't look like the Texans F.O. learned much from last seasons disaster.

TexansFTW
03-14-2014, 08:51 AM
There are 3 parts to a TE's game.

You can 'educate' me on football all day, but at the end of the day money talks and chumps walk.

Hartsock has been released more times than any player I've ever graded #2 at their respective position (Free Agency list or not). His career earnings are also less than what Graham just pulled in this one contract.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_Hartsock

I'm not sitting here saying G Graham is gonna fly us to the moon like Sampson or anything like that, I'm just saying he doesn't suck as bad as many are making him out to be and he is ABSOLUTELY more valuable to a football team than Ben Hartsock.

Did I want him resigned though? No. I wanted to draft Jace or ASJ w/ 2.01, but I guess that's done.

HOU-TEX
03-14-2014, 09:15 AM
I'm ok with re-signing Graham now that we know he'll be used as an H-back. He's below average in blocking and is penalized way too much.

CloakNNNdagger
03-14-2014, 09:33 AM
Value of a TE can come with many faces.

When the Carolina Panthers take the field against the San Francisco 49ers on Sunday, there will be a lot of talent on the field at the tight end position. Greg Olsen is one of the best receiving tight ends in the league and Vernon Davis is probably the best all-around player at the position outside of Rob Gronkowski. Those players are great, but the Panthers’ Ben Hartsock may be the most vital to the outcome of the game.

Hartsock hasn’t caught a pass all season—he hasn’t even been targeted, actually—but Pro Football Focus has graded him as the top tight end in the league, based largely (OK, entirely) on his run-blocking. That might be more of a condemnation of the site’s grading system than a commendation for Hartsock, but the former Ohio State Buckeye has been a key to the Panthers’ running game in 2013.

Hartsock has played 222 snaps this season and gone out for a pass only 35 times. Of his 187 snaps spent blocking, only 41 have been on passing plays (some of which were undoubtedly packaged plays with a run/pass option), so when Number 84 is in the game for the Panthers, it’s usually a run.

But Hartsock is so good at run-blocking, it doesn’t matter that the defense knows it’s coming. link (http://www.catscratchreader.com/2013/11/9/5083598/appreciating-ben-hartsock-the-panthers-x-factor-against-the-49ers)

Could be that over the years, our RBs have been dropping like flies because we've never really specifically had a strong blocking TE.

Playoffs
03-14-2014, 09:36 AM
I should have specified run blocking in my above post...

PFF 2014 Free Agency Deal Grader (https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2014/03/11/2014-free-agency-deal-grader/)
0.0: Color us indifferent

Garrett Graham (TE) to HST: 3-year, $11.25m with $4.5m guaranteed

There are two seasons with Graham playing a representative number of snaps for the Texans and they mirror the team’s fortunes. In 2012 he played well above average but his most recent body of work was like that of the team – dodgy at best. Last year Graham’s biggest issue was run blocking, earning a -7.8 grade over the season. The Texans haven’t committed huge money to him but will be hoping that he can bounce back along with the team in 2014.

CloakNNNdagger
03-14-2014, 09:37 AM
I'm ok with re-signing Graham now that we know he'll be used as an H-back. He's below average in blocking and is penalized way too much.

Penalties commonly come to factor in when players try to overcompensate their lack of strength or abilities.

El Tejano
03-14-2014, 09:41 AM
So that makes Griffin and Graham on our roster right? I think Pettigrew would be a grea addition. We need an inside blocker who can help the run game and be great in the redzone. I feel our team missed Dreesen in those areas.

msbbc833
03-14-2014, 09:48 AM
So that makes Griffin and Graham on our roster right? I think Pettigrew would be a grea addition. We need an inside blocker who can help the run game and be great in the redzone. I feel our team missed Dreesen in those areas.

He already resigned with the Lions

Playoffs
03-14-2014, 09:50 AM
He already resigned with the Lions

Thanks goodness. They call him Pettidrop in Detroit.

TexansFTW
03-14-2014, 10:07 AM
I get that we are all bored cause there is nothing to talk about, but I feel like I've said enough on this issue and will now bow out.

I respect all of your opinions and if you believe Ben Hartsock is as valuable as PFFs metrics makes him out to be I respect that.

Maybe we will meet again down the road in another thread.

Garrett Graham 4 President!

thunderkyss
03-14-2014, 10:42 AM
So that makes Griffin and Graham on our roster right? I think Pettigrew would be a grea addition. We need an inside blocker who can help the run game and be great in the redzone. I feel our team missed Dreesen in those areas.

We've got:

Zach Potter
Brad Smelley
Phillip Supernaw
Ryan Griffin
Garrett Graham

WolverineFan
03-14-2014, 11:13 AM
We've got:

Zach Potter
Brad Smelley
Phillip Supernaw
Ryan Griffin
Garrett Graham


I would expect Graham and Smelley to man the H-Back position with Graham also sliding out in the slot sometimes and Smelley playing some FB. Potter is your blocking TE and Griffin is your in-line TE. Supernaw will compete with a draft pick or vet for a roster spot to be Griffin's backup.

Texian
03-14-2014, 11:50 AM
Graham is just a guy and according to PFF ranks close to the bottom of all TE's in 2013. Graham's new salary replaces 80% of what Daniels salary would've been. That's for the next 3 years. I'm not sure Graham is 80% the player. I'd would've preferred if the Texans had kept Daniels for another year, drafting ASJ or Amaro and then reaping the full amount of salary cap space of Daniel's salary with his departure in 2015.

Goldensilence
03-14-2014, 11:57 AM
Graham is just a guy and according to PFF ranks close to the bottom of all TE's in 2013. Graham's new salary replaces 80% of what Daniels salary would've been. That's for the next 3 years. I'm not sure Graham is 80% the player. I'd would've preferred if the Texans had kept Daniels for another year, drafting ASJ or Amaro and then reaping the full amount of salary cap space of Daniel's salary with his departure in 2015.

This is what is at least MY problem with this contract is. We didn't get significant cap savings or dramatically upgrade what OD brought to the table vs this signing. I don't really care what PFF says much as on the field.

Not really sure if this is a Smith call or O'Brien. If Smith, i'm becoming more inclined to say BOTH Smith and Kubiak were big problems in talent evaluation and cap management.

WolverineFan
03-14-2014, 11:59 AM
Graham is just a guy and according to PFF ranks close to the bottom of all TE's in 2013. Graham's new salary replaces 80% of what Daniels salary would've been. That's for the next 3 years. I'm not sure Graham is 80% the player. I'd would've preferred if the Texans had kept Daniels for another year, drafting ASJ or Amaro and then reaping the full amount of salary cap space of Daniel's salary with his departure in 2015.

I agree. Would much rather have Daniel than Graham next year. I also don't see why we cut him if we weren't planning on chasing any FA's. Once Schaub is gone, we will have plenty of cap to sign filler FA's and draft picks.

thunderkyss
03-14-2014, 12:30 PM
I agree. Would much rather have Daniel than Graham next year. I also don't see why we cut him if we weren't planning on chasing any FA's. Once Schaub is gone, we will have plenty of cap to sign filler FA's and draft picks.

I couldn't think of any reason to cut OD, unless we were planning to bring Schaub back next season.


Then Doc posted that OD failed his physical... hopefully that's all there is to it & one has no bearing on the other.

WolverineFan
03-14-2014, 12:36 PM
I couldn't think of any reason to cut OD, unless we were planning to bring Schaub back next season.


Then Doc posted that OD failed his physical... hopefully that's all there is to it & one has no bearing on the other.

That's true. I forgot that he failed it.

CloakNNNdagger
03-14-2014, 01:12 PM
I would expect Graham and Smelley to man the H-Back position with Graham also sliding out in the slot sometimes and Smelley playing some FB. Potter is your blocking TE and Griffin is your in-line TE. Supernaw will compete with a draft pick or vet for a roster spot to be Griffin's backup.

I have a difficult time seeing Graham fitting the H-back role.........and even a more difficult time seeing any characteristics his has shown in the past to make a decent slot receiver.
From a 2012 Profootbalfocus piece:
Shaping the Slot (https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/05/23/shaping-the-slot/)

WolverineFan
03-14-2014, 01:21 PM
I have a difficult time seeing Graham fitting the H-back role.........and even a more difficult time seeing any characteristics his has shown in the past to make a decent slot receiver.
From a 2012 Profootbalfocus piece:
Shaping the Slot (https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/05/23/shaping-the-slot/)

I agree. Athletically, I like him as an H-Back. However, his run blocking is awful and negates his receiving ability in that role. As for being in the slot, it's all about matchups. Line him up in the backfield and motion him into the slot against a LB. NE did it with Hernandez all the time.

He did say that he was going to be an H-Back when he re-signed and that's how O'Brien has utilized his 'move TE' in the past.

Troy Chapman
03-14-2014, 01:34 PM
Graham's deal is basically a 1 year deal with little dead money in 2015. If something changes we can get out from it after this season just the same as if we had OD still on the roster. And still saved money overall between releasing OD and signing Graham.

If Graham posts a great season then hey he is a great deal.

Win win in my book from the contract standpoint.

Marshall
03-14-2014, 01:39 PM
Graham is just a guy and according to PFF ranks close to the bottom of all TE's in 2013. Graham's new salary replaces 80% of what Daniels salary would've been. That's for the next 3 years. I'm not sure Graham is 80% the player. I'd would've preferred if the Texans had kept Daniels for another year, drafting ASJ or Amaro and then reaping the full amount of salary cap space of Daniel's salary with his departure in 2015.

Th thing about Daniels is staying on the field. He just hit IR too often for what he was payed. Cushing needs a full season for the same reason. He's been on IR most of the last two seasons and he's got a huge contract. He's safe for now, but will be a prime candidate to be cut in 2016 without playing time.

CloakNNNdagger
03-14-2014, 01:41 PM
I agree. Athletically, I like him as an H-Back. However, his run blocking is awful and negates his receiving ability in that role. As for being in the slot, it's all about matchups. Line him up in the backfield and motion him into the slot against a LB. NE did it with Hernandez all the time.

He did say that he was going to be an H-Back when he re-signed and that's how O'Brien has utilized his 'move TE' in the past.

He's not quick enough for the slot. When you get a guy that is too fast for a linebacker to cover one-on-one and too big for defensive backs to control, you've got a player that you want in more than just the traditional tight end's role, especially since defenses align to personnel. I don't see Graham fulfilling that role any better. I guess we'll see if OB can pull off what I would consider a small miracle.

Malloy
03-14-2014, 01:50 PM
IMO OB has the benefit of the doubt. If he sees enough out of Graham to justify this contract, then so be it.

Also as others have pointed out, it's a year-to-year concract with few if any consequences moving into 2015.

CloakNNNdagger
03-14-2014, 03:26 PM
IMO OB has the benefit of the doubt. If he sees enough out of Graham to justify this contract, then so be it.

Also as others have pointed out, it's a year-to-year concract with few if any consequences moving into 2015.

But there goes our SB run. :chef:

Malloy
03-14-2014, 04:48 PM
But there goes our SB run. :chef:

Already?!?! Darn... Is this when I get of the bandwagon ? :)

drs23
03-14-2014, 06:40 PM
Already?!?! Darn... Is this when I get of the bandwagon ? :)

You very well could have picked the perfect time. I'm sure the landing will be soft with all the others that have bailed just prior. :D

Playoffs
03-14-2014, 06:59 PM
I would expect Graham and Smelley to...

Do we have to have a guy named Smelley on the roster... ? Not working for me. :kitten:

CloakNNNdagger
03-14-2014, 08:00 PM
Do we have to have a guy named Smelley on the roster... ? Not working for me. :kitten:

Between the two, I would rather have a player with a name like Smelley than a player that smells it up.:)

The Pencil Neck
03-14-2014, 11:25 PM
Between the two, I would rather have a player with a name like Smelley than a player that smells it up.:)

Unfortunately, he's a guy named Smelly who does smell it up. :(

A double whamsicle.

:mariopalm:

CloakNNNdagger
03-15-2014, 07:34 AM
Unfortunately, he's a guy named Smelly who does smell it up. :(

A double whamsicle.

:mariopalm:

You're probably right. But it's easier to justify having only to buy a clothespin, a blindfold, and a set of ear plugs to deal when a smelly player who is guaranteed no money comes in........rather than to know that you're guaranteeing $4.5 million for the honor of being entrapped within an inescapable prison cell padded with limburger cheese.:cheese:http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif

steelbtexan
03-15-2014, 12:03 PM
We've got:

Zach Potter
Brad Smelley
Phillip Supernaw
Ryan Griffin
Garrett Graham


Overall that's a Smelley crew right there.

Not a difference maker in the bunch.