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Playoffs
03-05-2014, 06:37 PM
Great stuff from Gabriel...

Let the Games Begin: The NFL Front Office Lying Season Is Just Getting Started (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1981056-let-the-games-begin-the-nfl-front-office-lying-season-is-just-getting-started)
For years I have said to people in the media during draft season that the first thing I have to do when the draft is over is go to confession.

When they ask why, I tell them because "of all the lies I've told."

From the time the combine ends until draft day there is far more misinformation than truth spread throughout the league...

Let me explain...
Pre-Draft Visits

Every year each club is allowed to bring in 30 players for updated medicals and interviews. The other clubs in the league know which players are visiting each team.
...
One year, we had pretty much made up our minds on the player we wanted in the first round by January. In February, I made a visit to the school this player was attending to talk to the player and his coaches. In an attempt to not let anyone link that player to us, we didn't...

Last year there was a very similar scenario. Buffalo had a huge need...

Pro Day Workouts

Another example of what clubs do to throw off the rest of the league is make fusses over certain players at their pro day.

When a team is going to take this approach, they have to be consistent.

For example, if their biggest need is at defensive end, then they have to go to all the top defensive end workouts. When they attend these workouts, they don't send one person, they...

Spread Rumors

Club "A" may like a certain player but to create a negative spin on the player they may have a coach or scout discretely say something negative about the prospect to people on other staffs. Those people will of course report that "information" to their superiors in the hopes, for Club "A" that is, that the rumor will spread.

What do they say? Something like this: "I really like this guy, but our doctors say he has a bad knee and we can't touch him." Or, "we have a problem with his ability to learn the scheme."

Clubs have until about a week before the draft to bring in prospects for a medical examination. The last week before the draft is a bit of a quiet period.

A few years ago, one club I know of liked a player but knew he needed a minor surgery before...

Interviews with the media

When ESPN started televising the draft on the early 1980s, former Sports Illustrated writer Paul Zimmerman was always one of the analysts with Mel Kiper and Chris Berman.

Zimmerman had a very good relationship with many coaches and GMs in the NFL. Numerous times during the draft, Zimmerman would say that such and such team was going to take a certain player. He said the coach or GM had told him such in the days leading up to the draft.

Almost 100 percent of the time the team did not select the player Zimmerman thought they would and he would look totally baffled...

What it Means for 2014

Over the next two months there will be plenty of reporting on the draft. We will hear that the "stock" of player A has gone up or down. We will read that certain teams are "in love" with a certain player or they think they are too far back in the order to draft player B.

With the draft being pushed back three weeks this year, there is more time to lie and spread rumors. As you are reading or listening to pre-draft updates or projections or the latest rumor, just remember that what is being said may not be true at all. It's nothing more than what teams want you to believe.

We will find out the real truth on May 8.
<snipped>
read more: http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1981056-let-the-games-begin-the-nfl-front-office-lying-season-is-just-getting-started

Allstar
03-05-2014, 10:54 PM
Pretty interesting read, confirming what we all know is going on around this time of year. Thanks again Playoffs.

ObsiWan
03-06-2014, 07:36 AM
This is just great.

Anyone affiliated with any team is gonna be lying. Most anyone affiliated with any network, radio talk show, or publication is a genius or an idiot with an agenda (depending on who they rate good or bad :) ).

...and Bill O'Brien ain't talking.

What the hell are we supposed to do?
:kitten:

NCTexan
03-06-2014, 09:27 AM
Rep to you Playoffs. Again.

This is why when everyone was saying "Oh! The Browns will trade with us for Manziel at 1!" I just sighed.

Playoffs
03-06-2014, 09:30 AM
What the hell are we supposed to do?
:kitten:

Pretend we want the Texans to draft Johnny Football when we prefer a different player or trade out of 1-1. I'd like us to only draft Coastal Carolina Chanticleers, myself.

cland
03-06-2014, 09:52 AM
This is why I think the Texans' may be drafting Bridgewater, for all the rumors regarding the team to a specific player (Manziel, Bortles, Clowney) I haven't read an article quoting a 'Texans team insider' lthat links them to Teddy Bridgewater....

It's quiet around these here parts......too quiet!

TexansFTW
03-06-2014, 03:44 PM
This is why I think the Texans' may be drafting Bridgewater, for all the rumors regarding the team to a specific player (Manziel, Bortles, Clowney) I haven't read an article quoting a 'Texans team insider' lthat links them to Teddy Bridgewater....

It's quiet around these here parts......too quiet!

I believe this too.

I liken this a little bit to fantasy football. I play play in a league with friends whom we all hang out together outside the season. As much as I want to just tell my friends how I feel and why, I try with every ounce of me to lie through my teeth.

I never try to give any idea who I am targeting, when, or why. This to me, (NFL Draft) is just a MUCH higher and costlier playing field than I have the resources to be a part of.

thunderkyss
03-06-2014, 06:19 PM
Great stuff from Gabriel...

Let the Games Begin: The NFL Front Office Lying Season Is Just Getting Started (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1981056-let-the-games-begin-the-nfl-front-office-lying-season-is-just-getting-started)


<snipped>
read more: http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1981056-let-the-games-begin-the-nfl-front-office-lying-season-is-just-getting-started

We need to spread some rumors about what St.Louis plans on doing. It's been way to quite. We need to get people thinking St.Louis wants their guy & they need to make a deal with us to snag him.

drs23
03-06-2014, 06:52 PM
This is just great.

Anyone affiliated with any team is gonna be lying. Most anyone affiliated with any network, radio talk show, or publication is a genius or an idiot with an agenda (depending on who they rate good or bad :) ).

...and Bill O'Brien ain't talking.

What the hell are we supposed to do?
:kitten:

Sodium Pentathol and some panty droppers? :kitten: :kitten:

ArlingtonTexan
03-06-2014, 07:55 PM
Reads like giant game of poker:

slow playing, bluffing, misdirection, reading other teams tells...oh and sometimes the best lie is the truth.

ObsiWan
03-07-2014, 04:19 PM
Sodium Pentathol and some panty droppers? :kitten: :kitten:

There are certain situations you might not want full cooperation mixed in with the complete truth.
This has the potential to be one of those situations.
:)

ArlingtonTexan
03-09-2014, 06:10 PM
this is from a poster of the fantasy football forum footballguys.com (if nothing else it is entertaining concerning the possible world lies and media manipulation)

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=594969&page=10#entry16606866

- McCain released the story as a favor to the Texans in trade for other insider info he's received in the past. ( This is how "insiders" around the league are really "information brokers", on the premise that nothing is free and the media, by extension, becomes part of the ruse, deception, dog and pony show. Information is not "free", you are expected to help the franchise during this time of year to push one story or another to push one agenda or another. This is the one time of year that "lying" is acceptable from organization to organization and not taken personally during the NFL season. it's this kind of back room type dealing that gets journalists close enough to teams to get access to do a book, which can be far more lucrative overall i.e. Jeff Pearlman and his Cowboys book. )...



- Word out on the trade, info not coming out of NE, that Patriots wanted a 3rd rounder that would turn to a 2nd rounder based on Mallett's number of starts/production benchmarks with Houston. Along with a handshake agreement not to pursue Julian Edelman. Houston, in exchange, offered two 4ths, one completely conditional on playing benchmarks, and no promise at all regarding Edelman.

- Mallett would be seen as bridge QB1 with good upside and would have to take a team friendly extension, knows O'Brien and system. If trade doesn't work, still works as bait for Atlanta. New England plays along because it profiles Mallett for other potential trade opportunities. Possible win/win if Houston makes the trade and win/win if Houston doesn't.

Playoffs
03-09-2014, 07:16 PM
- McClain released the story as a favor to the Texans in trade for other insider info he's received in the past. ( This is how "insiders" around the league are really "information brokers", on the premise that nothing is free and the media, by extension, becomes part of the ruse, deception, dog and pony show. Information is not "free", you are expected to help the franchise during this time of year to push one story or another to push one agenda or another...)
Huh? McClain only trades for food.
4) Cleveland - Watkins/Manziel ( still in mix for possible Kaepernick deal)So 49ers are dumping Kaepernick. :thinking:
Colts, Ryan Grigson is GMINO ( GM In Name Only)Uh huh...
Do not shoot the messenger.
http://forddieselpower.com/forums/images/smilies/jalth.gif
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e316/Soizic22/a%20smilie/laugh-1.gif

TexansFTW
03-10-2014, 10:12 AM
- Word out on the trade, info not coming out of NE, that Patriots wanted a 3rd rounder that would turn to a 2nd rounder based on Mallett's number of starts/production benchmarks with Houston. Along with a handshake agreement not to pursue Julian Edelman. Houston, in exchange, offered two 4ths, one completely conditional on playing benchmarks, and no promise at all regarding Edelman.

- Mallett would be seen as bridge QB1 with good upside and would have to take a team friendly extension, knows O'Brien and system. If trade doesn't work, still works as bait for Atlanta. New England plays along because it profiles Mallett for other potential trade opportunities. Possible win/win if Houston makes the trade and win/win if Houston doesn't.

This right here I would be down with no doubt. People think I hate Ryan Mallett because I don't want to give up a 2nd for the guy. Whatever. I'm NOT down to give up the #33 overall pick for a guy that hasn't done anything and is gonna demand starting QB money.

He hasn't impressed in preseason in 3 years and in regular season is 1/4 with 17 passing yards and an INT with -9 rushing yards in 3 years and was 'just OK' at his Pro Day THIS year. 4th rounders though? I can get down to this dance, we blow those all the time anyways.

thunderkyss
03-10-2014, 11:18 AM
This right here I would be down with no doubt. People think I hate Ryan Mallett because I don't want to give up a 2nd for the guy. Whatever. I'm NOT down to give up the #33 overall pick for a guy that hasn't done anything and is gonna demand starting QB money.



What if you can get him for 1st overall money? Eric Fisher signed a 4 year deal for $22M last season. I wouldn't mind giving him something like that, with a fat roster bonus on year three.... $20M, making it a $44M contract, making it lucrative for him, but advantageous to us to cut him in year 3, with little blowback.

That only gives him two years to prove he is a starter, but we're going on his 4th NFL season.

TexansFTW
03-10-2014, 11:44 AM
What if you can get him for 1st overall money? Eric Fisher signed a 4 year deal for $22M last season. I wouldn't mind giving him something like that, with a fat roster bonus on year three.... $20M, making it a $44M contract, making it lucrative for him, but advantageous to us to cut him in year 3, with little blowback.

That only gives him two years to prove he is a starter, but we're going on his 4th NFL season.

My biggest problem is the pick. I have him valued at a mid 3rd player, right about where he was drafted, but we don't get those cheap years to mold him. The Patriots did, and he doesn't look much different than he did coming out.

Either way, you're almost never going to get a young QB (with even a little bit of promise) to take a contract that basically spells out being cut with little blowback in year 3. IFF someone trades for and signs him, that team is gonna feel it. I envision a 4 year/34 million type deal. I repeat IFF someone trades for him.

Who am I though, just a speculating guy. You might be right, who knows.

infantrycak
03-10-2014, 02:08 PM
Either way, you're almost never going to get a young QB (with even a little bit of promise) to take a contract that basically spells out being cut with little blowback in year 3. IFF someone trades for and signs him, that team is gonna feel it. I envision a 4 year/34 million type deal. I repeat IFF someone trades for him.

Do you have examples of trades for this proposition because that is a much different scenario than FA? In a trade they are going to get to start and a big raise before they otherwise would. Schaub could have been cut after two years with almost no ill effect.

I'll preempt Cassel. First he had a year of "proof" before being traded. Second the Chiefs structured his deal to eat up money so they could get up to spending the minimum amount.

TexansFTW
03-10-2014, 03:05 PM
Do you have examples of trades for this proposition because that is a much different scenario than FA? In a trade they are going to get to start and a big raise before they otherwise would. Schaub could have been cut after two years with almost no ill effect.

I'll preempt Cassel. First he had a year of "proof" before being traded. Second the Chiefs structured his deal to eat up money so they could get up to spending the minimum amount.

Can't give any examples if it hasn't been done except the 2 times you mentioned in the last like 8 years. There's probably more, but I don't know them off the top of my head. Jay Cutler trade is probably too proven for this conversation. I guess you can also mention Whitehurst, but he was never nearly as regarded and was never able to overcome Matt Hasselbeck, but yeah, his contract sucked. I won't really use that for this though.

QBs get paid a helluva lot more today than they did in 2007 also. Flynn had 1 good game and cost $26/3, obviously they cut him though. My 4 year / 34 example had no guaranteed money structure for cutting him, but I doubt it would come punishment free if we cut him prior to year 3.

This is all just a what if scenario anyway though.

infantrycak
03-10-2014, 04:43 PM
QBs get paid a helluva lot more today than they did in 2007 also.

I am not disputing that at all. What I am saying is I see no reason the structure, not the absolute dollar number, cannot be similar - around half of what a top 10 QB makes structured such that there is minimal impact in dead money to cut after 2 years, i.e. the signing bonus for a similar sized contract for an established QB divided into a signing bonus and a roster bonus in year 3 or something to achieve a similar result.

Playoffs
03-10-2014, 04:52 PM
I am not disputing that at all. What I am saying is I see no reason the structure, not the absolute dollar number, cannot be similar - around half of what a top 10 QB makes structured such that there is minimal impact in dead money to cut after 2 years, i.e. the signing bonus for a similar sized contract for an established QB divided into a signing bonus and a roster bonus in year 3 or something to achieve a similar result.
Seeing more and more contracts designed around this philosophy -- front loaded, pay for play, easier outs.

thunderkyss
03-10-2014, 06:51 PM
Flynn had 1 good game and cost $26/3, obviously they cut him though.

This will probably work against Mallet in negotiating from his position.

TexansFTW
03-10-2014, 10:29 PM
I am not disputing that at all. What I am saying is I see no reason the structure, not the absolute dollar number, cannot be similar - around half of what a top 10 QB makes structured such that there is minimal impact in dead money to cut after 2 years, i.e. the signing bonus for a similar sized contract for an established QB divided into a signing bonus and a roster bonus in year 3 or something to achieve a similar result.

Fair enough. Quite possible. We will see. I'll be hoping we don't though (see that is).

ObsiWan
03-13-2014, 04:25 AM
This right here I would be down with no doubt. People think I hate Ryan Mallett because I don't want to give up a 2nd for the guy. Whatever. I'm NOT down to give up the #33 overall pick for a guy that hasn't done anything and is gonna demand starting QB money.

He hasn't impressed in preseason in 3 years and in regular season is 1/4 with 17 passing yards and an INT with -9 rushing yards in 3 years and was 'just OK' at his Pro Day THIS year. 4th rounders though? I can get down to this dance, we blow those all the time anyways.

As you said yourself, he hasn't done anything in three seasons. He's seen the field in four games, thrown four passes, completed one and thrown one pick. I don't see how he can "demand" anything. According to SpotRac (http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/new-england-patriots/cap-hit/) he's not even making a million if he stays with the Pats this year. I don't see him getting any kind of big contract.

I'm totally with you on not giving up a 2nd for this guy. ...maybe not even a 3rd.

He just reminds me too much of Dan Orlovsky. Don't ask me why. He just does.

ArlingtonTexan
03-16-2014, 02:16 PM
Another article basically giving to evidence to season of BS

http://espn.go.com/nfl/draft2014/story/_/page/hotread140312/nfl-draft-misinformation-smoke-screens-standard-fare-evaluation-season

Playoffs
04-17-2014, 11:50 AM
Mike Freeman's 10-Point Stance: Attacks on Clowney Stink of Draft Propaganda (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2027608-mike-freemans-10-point-stance-attacks-on-clowney-stink-of-draft-propaganda)
1. All the lying

One scout called this time of year in the NFL "The Bulls--- Season." And there is lots of it. So, so much. The lying about prospects. The lying by prospects, their agents, teams, scouts and coaches.

A good example of this happened recently due to a garbage story on NJ.com in which an NFC personnel man called Jadeveon Clowney "spoiled" and "lazy," among other things.

I've covered more than 20 drafts, and there's always at least one story like this. Some scout saying some negative thing about some prospect.

Sometimes that belief is sincere. I've used anonymous personnel quotes. In fact, just recently, a scout told me the decision by Clowney to skip team private workouts was "gutless." That's the word he used. Gutless.

Now, I think calling Clowney's decision gutless is stupid, but that, to me, is within the parameters of legitimate criticism. After all, the scout wasn't calling Clowney gutless. (Clowney's agent Bus Cook told USA Today that Clowney might do one more workout, for one team, with no heavy lifting. Thus, basically, Clowney isn't working out.)

But there are certain things that cross the line, and calling Clowney lazy is one of them. Particularly for the reason these quotes were given.

The line is fine. I get that. But spoiled and lazy are personal attacks. And that is the crux of The Bulls--- Season. The more personal and believable, the better chance the crap will be repeated in the media.

The lazy and spoiled comments were likely said in order to knock down Clowney's stock. Most fans don't realize this is extremely common. It happens numerous times each draft. The idea is to say negative things in the media about a prospect and hope some sucker team actually falls for the hokum, and occasionally, some dumb team does.

The history of this is long. Scouts interviewed for this story gave some notable examples...

So when you read all of the draft rumors, just remember what season it is.

Double Barrel
04-17-2014, 12:10 PM
A good example of this happened recently due to a garbage story on NJ.com in which an NFC personnel man called Jadeveon Clowney "spoiled" and "lazy," among other things.

The first thing I thought of when this came out was someone really wants Clowney.

When a professional personnel man won't reveal himself and goes chickenshit (IMO) anonymous with his opinions, he's either hiding his name so his team doesn't take a reputation hit when they try to draft the player, or, the writer is making crap up so they can get talked about.

I usually do not follow much draft talk because it's all bullshit and opinions. I tend to follow the off-seasons when the Texans have the 1.1 pick, because anything is possible. In 2002, we were just excited to have football back in H-town. In 2006, the excitement still existed, and all the VY/RB hype was entertaining. This year, however, feels like a huge drag. I'm ready for the draft to be over so we can talk about things we will know at that point instead of all the hype, misdirection, speculation, and butthurt feelings over disagreements.

Playoffs
04-28-2014, 08:22 PM
Daniel Jeremiah @MoveTheSticks
Week before the draft, expect these stories--high profile player-low test score, failed drug tests, poor private workout, terrible visit.

I fully expect some crazy draft rumors to take off in the next few days.

Thorn
04-28-2014, 08:33 PM
I'll be so glad when the draft is over and we have a better idea of what's actually going on. There's always a bunch of bull$hit rumors, and now, we are getting stories from the press about how rumors are manufactured.

At this point, the only way to get any more bull$hit is to crawl up the bulls ass.

thunderkyss
05-12-2014, 07:56 AM
Great stuff from Gabriel...

Let the Games Begin: The NFL Front Office Lying Season Is Just Getting Started (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1981056-let-the-games-begin-the-nfl-front-office-lying-season-is-just-getting-started)
From the time the combine ends until draft day there is far more misinformation than truth spread throughout the league...


So what have we learned? What lies were told?

steelbtexan
05-12-2014, 09:25 AM
So what have we learned? What lies were told?

Well we do know that Savage was either 1.A or 1.B on BOB's QB list.

Playoffs
05-12-2014, 09:32 AM
So what have we learned? What lies were told?

Jaguars are not to be trusted ever again. They're that girl who goes out and secures a new boyfriend behind your back before she breaks up with you. :ahhaha:

Texans burned all of their truth tickets this year and will need to be liars next year.