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thunderkyss
02-18-2014, 04:53 PM
So I started the "Clowney, then what" thread hoping it would be a place we can discuss the rest of the draft. We've got several spots that do not have a current starter.

Our biggest problem is Quarterback, but our OL wasn't doing anyone any favors last season. Whether it was Schaub, Keenum, Foster, or Tate to put it bluntly the OL didn't do it's part.

I know OB most likely has his own ideas & plans for the team, but I want to hear what you want to do, as far as the draft goes.

I'm not in love with any of these QBs, I think I made that clear. You may be, & that's fine. If we draft Bridgewater, I'm going to be the biggest Bridgewater fan this side of my couch. If we draft Bortles, I'm buying a jersey ASAP. If we draft Manziel..... well, it's going to be hard not to sell my game tickets, I could probably sell them for 4x face value easy. So I'm going to like that.

So assuming we take a QB with that first pick.... or a DE, who should we be looking for on the offensive line. I want a guard & a tackle. If you're high on Quessenbery, that's cool, what OT do you think will be there in the 6th, 7th, UD....

Is there a guard with high upside that can be had in the 3rd or 4th? I'm good with using a second... just need to know who's out there, who's worth checking out.

The Pencil Neck
02-18-2014, 05:08 PM
I think the majority of our line is set with Brown, Myers and Brooks. I'm expecting Quessenberry to come in and take over at LG.

So for me, I'm expecting to draft an RT fairly early.

I'm hoping for Antonio Richardson or Cyrus Kouandjio (sp) at 2-1 but they might wait until later in the draft. Mayock has said this is a tackle-deep draft so we might be able to get a good one in the 3rd or 4th but I don't know all these guys, yet.

I'm hoping I'll learn more from the Combine and from the TT Mock.

Wolf6151
02-18-2014, 05:09 PM
OT's that I like:
Cyrus Kouandjio, might be available in the 2nd round, but it will take some luck.
Morgan Moses, 2nd round or maybe in the 3rd if we're lucky.
Antonio Richardson, 2nd round if he can lose some weight and gain some athleticism/agility.
JaWaun James, 3rd round, very solid RT.
James Hurst, 4th round currently has a broken leg but bones heal better than tendons.
Joel Bitonio, just beginning to look at him, maybe 3rd round.
Cameron Fleming, just beginning to look at him, maybe 5th round or later.

OG's that I like:
David Yankey, 2nd round prospect.
Gabe Jackson, 2nd round prospect as well.
Cyril Richardson, 2nd or 3rd rounder.
Brandon Thomas, 4th round prospect
Andrew Norwell, late round or UDFA can play both OT and OG.

Honestly I project Quessenberry to fill the LG spot. I think we should take an OT in the 2nd or 3rd depending on how the draft falls to us and then maybe a late round developmental guy that can play both OT/OG.

CloakNNNdagger
02-18-2014, 05:19 PM
Honestly I project Quessenberry to fill the LG spot. I think we should take an OT in the 2nd or 3rd depending on how the draft falls to us and then maybe a late round developmental guy that can play both OT/OG.

Although most people of talking Quess at LG. I wouldn't be at all surprised to see OB try Quess as RT. After all he played LT and RT in college.

Texian
02-18-2014, 05:25 PM
So I started the "Clowney, then what" thread hoping it would be a place we can discuss the rest of the draft. We've got several spots that do not have a current starter.

Our biggest problem is Quarterback, but our OL wasn't doing anyone any favors last season. Whether it was Schaub, Keenum, Foster, or Tate to put it bluntly the OL didn't do it's part.

I know OB most likely has his own ideas & plans for the team, but I want to hear what you want to do, as far as the draft goes.

I'm not in love with any of these QBs, I think I made that clear. You may be, & that's fine. If we draft Bridgewater, I'm going to be the biggest Bridgewater fan this side of my couch. If we draft Bortles, I'm buying a jersey ASAP. If we draft Manziel..... well, it's going to be hard not to sell my game tickets, I could probably sell them for 4x face value easy. So I'm going to like that.

So assuming we take a QB with that first pick.... or a DE, who should we be looking for on the offensive line. I want a guard & a tackle. If you're high on Quessenbery, that's cool, what OT do you think will be there in the 6th, 7th, UD....

Is there a guard with high upside that can be had in the 3rd or 4th? I'm good with using a second... just need to know who's out there, who's worth checking out.

I personally think OB tries to make do with Quessenberry and Williams, neither has been on Reliant field. If OL is a must then it's Billy Turner in RD 4 for me. A 5th or 6th RD OL is likely a bigger waste than Quess or Williams.

ObsiWan
02-18-2014, 05:29 PM
Although most people of talking Quess at LG. I wouldn't be at all surprised to see OB try Quess as RT. After all he played LT and RT in college.

What is your expection regarding Quessenberry's recovery? 100%? 90%?

Wolf6151
02-18-2014, 05:36 PM
Although most people of talking Quess at LG. I wouldn't be at all surprised to see OB try Quess as RT. After all he played LT and RT in college.

I'd have no problems trying him at RT. I think he needed to add some strength from what I saw in preseason last year, but he had the mobility. I surely hope the broken foot healed 100% and he used the time off to get bigger and study his craft. He should have been in the weight room and film room every day.

Number19
02-18-2014, 06:00 PM
With Quess and Williams coming back, plus the others from last year, we should be sitting pretty good going into training camp with the addition of just one mid round prospect. I think the general rule of thumb is that you always try to bring in at least one new player every year to compete for playing time. Since RT was our weak spot last year, the player that has caught my eye pre-combine is Ja'wuan James at 4-1. Wolf6151 has him at 3-1,but I don't believe I've seen a big board with him quite this high. This may change after the combine, but I think he's generally rated as 3/4 right now, somewhere about 112 overall.

The description I have on him this early is that he's a natural right tackle who quickly recognizes stunts and has initial quickness with lateral agility and flexibility. He's light on his feet, plays with his knees bent and has good balance.

Sounds too good; I need to find out what his weaknesses are and why he's currently rated so low. He's 6'-6", 315 and with 40 time around 5.28.

steelbtexan
02-18-2014, 06:03 PM
At OT I like Morgan Moses IF he's there at 32. JuWaun James/Cameron Fleming/Billy Turner in the 3rd.

Late rd guys 5-7 John Halapio/Matt Patchan/Spencer Long.

aussie_texan
02-18-2014, 06:09 PM
personally i wouldn't take an o-lineman till late in the draft.
LG i think will go to big Q and jones as backup which is probably good enough.
Newton will be gone or at least a back up and if we had average play from the RT position this year we would have been at least a top 15 line.
My thinking is give williams a decent chance of taking the RT spot and bring in a FA like Austin howard to compete with.

For me if we get at least average play from LG and RT our o-line will be good enough.
We just have to many holes to fill that have higher priority.

CloakNNNdagger
02-18-2014, 06:16 PM
What is your expection regarding Quessenberry's recovery? 100%? 90%?

The Texans have kept the information regarding his injury limited to.........."foot fracture." That tells me nothing about ultimate prognosis.

This is what I wrote right after it happened.

http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2202573&postcount=23

Shortly thereafter, he underwent an equally descriptive "surgery."

He could come back with essentially no significant residual effects.........or he can become another Yao Ming.

Sorry, but that's as far as I can take it. I hope that the Texans have not been so ESPECIALLY vague re. his injury because of a poor prognosis. I guess we will all find out come OTAs.

thunderkyss
02-18-2014, 06:32 PM
personally i wouldn't take an o-lineman till late in the draft.
LG i think will go to big Q and jones as backup which is probably good enough.

I personally would like to get beyong "good enough." I dream of the day sportscasters are able to say, "He has all kinds of time..." when talking about our QB.

WolverineFan
02-18-2014, 07:11 PM
This is a fantastic draft for OL. Lots of talent and tons of depth. If we end up with 2-3 comp picks then I think we should double dip at the position. Maybe one early-to-mid pick and one mid-to-late pick.

aussie_texan
02-18-2014, 07:29 PM
I personally would like to get beyong "good enough." I dream of the day sportscasters are able to say, "He has all kinds of time..." when talking about our QB.

i think we can have that with a decent RT. as you know the o-line is one whole unit and you are only has strong as your weakest link in our case last year very weak because RT was a mess.
Fix that, brooks will play elevate his play which should help meyers and so forth.

Brisco_County
02-18-2014, 09:33 PM
Quessenberry and Williams cannot be considered reliable right now. They may be eventually, but they're not off to a good start. As long as their injury risk exists, we have to draft at those two positions. Depth is needed on the line anyway.

mussop
02-18-2014, 11:09 PM
Keep your eye On Brandon Thomas, Clemson.

Playoffs
02-19-2014, 11:55 AM
I'm not as sold on Gs as I am the Ts at the top. Agree on Moses.

Mike Mayock and Tony Pauline discuss Morgan Moses (http://uvasports.blogs.timesdispatch.com/2014/02/19/u-va-s-moses-ready-answer-questions-nfl-combine/)

ObsiWan
02-21-2014, 11:17 PM
personally i wouldn't take an o-lineman till late in the draft.
LG i think will go to big Q and jones as backup which is probably good enough.
Newton will be gone or at least a back up and if we had average play from the RT position this year we would have been at least a top 15 line.
My thinking is give williams a decent chance of taking the RT spot and bring in a FA like Austin howard to compete with.

For me if we get at least average play from LG and RT our o-line will be good enough.
We just have to many holes to fill that have higher priority.

I personally would like to get beyond "good enough." I dream of the day sportscasters are able to say, "He has all kinds of time..." when talking about our QB.
THANK YOU!

"Good enough" for what??
We may very well be starting a rookie at QB and folks will be satisfied with "good enough"??
:mcnugget:

I want the very best O-line we can assemble to give who ever we have starting the best chance to be successful. I'd rather not have my QB have to make up for shoddy O-line play. I've saw that movie last season and I didn't like how it ended.

ObsiWan
02-21-2014, 11:26 PM
The Texans have kept the information regarding his injury limited to.........."foot fracture." That tells me nothing about ultimate prognosis.

This is what I wrote right after it happened.

http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2202573&postcount=23

Shortly thereafter, he underwent an equally descriptive "surgery."

He could come back with essentially no significant residual effects.........or he can become another Yao Ming.

Sorry, but that's as far as I can take it. I hope that the Texans have not been so ESPECIALLY vague re. his injury because of a poor prognosis. I guess we will all find out come OTAs.

This worries me. The Texans Med Staff don't exactly have a superlative record regarding diagnosing and treating injuries. Counting on Quess to come back to full strength is a real gamble; one I don't care to take for some one who might possibly be our starting RT.

infantrycak
02-21-2014, 11:48 PM
THANK YOU!

"Good enough" for what??
We may very well be starting a rookie at QB and folks will be satisfied with "good enough"??
:mcnugget:

I want the very best O-line we can assemble to give who ever we have starting the best chance to be successful. I'd rather not have my QB have to make up for shoddy O-line play. I've saw that movie last season and I didn't like how it ended.

Good enough to be part of one of the top OLs in the league - and that can be had at 2.1. We had a damn good one with 3.2 at RT.

The Seahawks split time between 5th and 7th rounders at RT. Denver had a 2nd rounder at RT. We aren't the Eagles with a 32 year old LT such that it made sense to draft their future LT and play him at RT. Ours is 28.

thunderkyss
02-22-2014, 01:52 AM
Good enough to be part of one of the top OLs in the league - and that can be had at 2.1. We had a damn good one with 3.2 at RT.

The Seahawks split time between 5th and 7th rounders at RT. Denver had a 2nd rounder at RT. We aren't the Eagles with a 32 year old LT such that it made sense to draft their future LT and play him at RT. Ours is 28.

We had one of the best QBs in the league at that time as well. He was taken in the 3rd round of the NFL draft. The Seahawks just won the Super Bowl with a QB they selected in the third round.

If the new CBA makes any position, save for special teams, a viable option with the #1 overall pick... then having two first round picks playing OT shouldn't be an issue.

The Texans, imo, instantly become one of the better teams in the league if we can find someone better than Duane Brown. & that's with our current crop of QBs. If he's as good as Duane, we may very well be that 4th team in the AFC. If he's "good enough" to play RT, we'll be among the best in the league between the 20s... again.

Do you think there is a chance that we can find a guy in the third with any possibility of being a better LT than Duane Brown? If we draft a guy in the third, it's very well possible we miss like we did with Caldwell, the can't miss guard out of Alabama, or Ben Jones, the best Center prospect (or second/third best) out of Georgia.

If we draft the best OT prospect in this draft, we raise the bar. We help Keenum, Yates, and even Schaub to perform their jobs better, which in turn elevates everyone else on offense. If we can stay on the field, increase our scoring efficiency, we'll even make the defense look better. Looking for that guy in the 3rd... maybe we do, maybe we don't.

Use that pick on one of these QBs, maybe we do, maybe we don't. Looks like there are 3, maybe 4 OTs that grade as good or better than the three QBs at the top of the draft. 3 of them, much better. Again, my opinion but there will still be 3 QBs on the board in the 2nd that grade as well as those 3 QBs. There will be no OTs on the board that grade as well as the top 3 OTs in this draft. There will be no OTs on the board that grade as well as the top 3 QBs left in the second.

ObsiWan
02-22-2014, 07:12 AM
We had one of the best QBs in the league at that time as well. He was taken in the 3rd round of the NFL draft. The Seahawks just won the Super Bowl with a QB they selected in the third round.

If the new CBA makes any position, save for special teams, a viable option with the #1 overall pick... then having two first round picks playing OT shouldn't be an issue.

The Texans, imo, instantly become one of the better teams in the league if we can find someone better than Duane Brown. & that's with our current crop of QBs. If he's as good as Duane, we may very well be that 4th team in the AFC. If he's "good enough" to play RT, we'll be among the best in the league between the 20s... again.

Do you think there is a chance that we can find a guy in the third with any possibility of being a better LT than Duane Brown? If we draft a guy in the third, it's very well possible we miss like we did with Caldwell, the can't miss guard out of Alabama, or Ben Jones, the best Center prospect (or second/third best) out of Georgia.

If we draft the best OT prospect in this draft, we raise the bar. We help Keenum, Yates, and even Schaub to perform their jobs better, which in turn elevates everyone else on offense. If we can stay on the field, increase our scoring efficiency, we'll even make the defense look better. Looking for that guy in the 3rd... maybe we do, maybe we don't.

Use that pick on one of these QBs, maybe we do, maybe we don't. Looks like there are 3, maybe 4 OTs that grade as good or better than the three QBs at the top of the draft. 3 of them, much better. Again, my opinion but there will still be 3 QBs on the board in the 2nd that grade as well as those 3 QBs. There will be no OTs on the board that grade as well as the top 3 OTs in this draft. There will be no OTs on the board that grade as well as the top 3 QBs left in the second.

Thanks. You made the same arguments I was about to make.

Let me put it this way, I'd rather see Jacksonville take the Clowney gamble and us take the sure thing that is Matthews or Robinson rather than the other way around. There will be QB's that aren't graded that far off the top three in the 2nd and maybe even the 3rd round.

None of us know what the heck O'Smithien are gonna do with that first pick.
I'm just explaining what makes the most sense to me.

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...but I've been wrong before.

infantrycak
02-22-2014, 07:57 AM
We had one of the best QBs in the league at that time as well.

How about a little personal consistency here and you not try to fake that you thought Schaub was one of the best QBs in the league. You didn't and he wasn't. He was an above average QB who never really could have been argued to have been better than maybe, maybe 8th best in his best season. He was "good enough" to win with if the rest of the team was "good enough" as well.

He was taken in the 3rd round of the NFL draft. The Seahawks just won the Super Bowl with a QB they selected in the third round.

The exception proves the rule. Look it up, learn it.

If the new CBA makes any position, save for special teams, a viable option with the #1 overall pick... then having two first round picks playing OT shouldn't be an issue.

I am not against the concept entirely. Early in the process I was on board. But this particular year I think it is a bad choice. Last year, sign me up. Just like you are saying TB is just the best QB this year but really not that special, well that's Matthews. He might not ever even make it to LT.

This argument also applies to other positions. Why not go with one of Mack or Moseley who are exceptional?

Despite the new CBA and big boards supposed to be ordering based on talent there is still a bias to push QBs, OTs and DEs up the order. Now that RBs are out of fashion you don't see them appearing at the top nor do you see serious consideration being given to safeties or TEs. Moseley is arguably the best football player in this draft and as low a risk a player as you are ever going to come across. Let's pair him with Cushing.

The Texans, imo, instantly become one of the better teams in the league if we can find someone better than Duane Brown. & that's with our current crop of QBs.

That's pure freaking delusion. Could it happen - sure. I could win the lottery tomorrow. You don't go spending all your money today planing on winning the lottery tomorrow. It's dumb.

Do you think there is a chance that we can find a guy in the third with any possibility of being a better LT than Duane Brown? If we draft a guy in the third, it's very well possible we miss like we did with Caldwell, the can't miss guard out of Alabama, or Ben Jones, the best Center prospect (or second/third best) out of Georgia.

How'd we get down to the 3rd? DB isn't the issue. We need a RT. Frankly it is a different skill set and it is a bad plan to act like you are going to treat the two as interchangeable all the time. But to answer your question, there is less of a chance of failure at RT in the 2nd or 3rd than there is at QB.

If we draft the best OT prospect in this draft, we raise the bar. We help Keenum, Yates, and even Schaub to perform their jobs better, which in turn elevates everyone else on offense. If we can stay on the field, increase our scoring efficiency, we'll even make the defense look better. Looking for that guy in the 3rd... maybe we do, maybe we don't.

Thanks for the trickle down football lecture. It's wonderful. Problem is it can be made about EVERY POSITION. In fact improvement at QB is the position the argument is best suited for.

Looks like there are 3, maybe 4 OTs that grade as good or better than the three QBs at the top of the draft. 3 of them, much better.

In what universe? Seriously point to someone saying 4 OTs are better than all the QBs.

Again, my opinion but there will still be 3 QBs on the board in the 2nd that grade as well as those 3 QBs.

Frankly all this says to me is disregard any attempt by TK to grade draft prospects. You don't even have a single wingnut analyst to support your whack grading of the QBs.

Marshall
02-22-2014, 08:22 AM
How about a little personal consistency here and you not try to fake that you thought Schaub was one of the best QBs in the league. You didn't and he wasn't. He was an above average QB who never really could have been argued to have been better than maybe, maybe 8th best in his best season. He was "good enough" to win with if the rest of the team was "good enough" as well.



The exception proves the rule. Look it up, learn it.



I am not against the concept entirely. Early in the process I was on board. But this particular year I think it is a bad choice. Last year, sign me up. Just like you are saying TB is just the best QB this year but really not that special, well that's Matthews. He might not ever even make it to LT.

This argument also applies to other positions. Why not go with one of Mack or Moseley who are exceptional?

Despite the new CBA and big boards supposed to be ordering based on talent there is still a bias to push QBs, OTs and DEs up the order. Now that RBs are out of fashion you don't see them appearing at the top nor do you see serious consideration being given to safeties or TEs. Moseley is arguably the best football player in this draft and as low a risk a player as you are ever going to come across. Let's pair him with Cushing.



That's pure freaking delusion. Could it happen - sure. I could win the lottery tomorrow. You don't go spending all your money today planing on winning the lottery tomorrow. It's dumb.



How'd we get down to the 3rd? DB isn't the issue. We need a RT. Frankly it is a different skill set and it is a bad plan to act like you are going to treat the two as interchangeable all the time. But to answer your question, there is less of a chance of failure at RT in the 2nd or 3rd than there is at QB.



Thanks for the trickle down football lecture. It's wonderful. Problem is it can be made about EVERY POSITION. In fact improvement at QB is the position the argument is best suited for.



In what universe? Seriously point to someone saying 4 OTs are better than all the QBs.



Frankly all this says to me is disregard any attempt by TK to grade draft prospects. You don't even have a single wingnut analyst to support your whack grading of the QBs.

Don't feel so lonely. You're just like the rest of us in dismissing anyone who disagrees with us and often insulting them at the same time.

jradMIT
02-22-2014, 08:40 AM
What about this Joel Bitonio kid out of Nevada. Impressed at the senior bowl, 6 4 315, played LT and had a good performance against Barr projects as a swing Ot OG

Playoffs
02-22-2014, 09:01 AM
What about this Joel Bitonio kid out of Nevada. Impressed at the senior bowl, 6 4 315, played LT and had a good performance against Barr projects as a swing Ot OG

Liked him as a sneaky pick... no longer sneaky. Creeping into the 3rd/2nd, I think. Bit narrow in the hip.

thunderkyss
02-22-2014, 09:12 AM
How about a little personal consistency here and you not try to fake that you thought Schaub was one of the best QBs in the league. You didn't and he wasn't. He was an above average QB who never really could have been argued to have been better than maybe, maybe 8th best in his best season. He was "good enough" to win with if the rest of the team was "good enough" as well.


I've always said that 2009-2011 Matt Schaub could win a Super Bowl & the only thing separating him from the elite was the lack of wins in the play-offs, which during that time frame, weren't entirely his fault.

8th best = one of the best


I am not against the concept entirely. Early in the process I was on board. But this particular year I think it is a bad choice. Last year, sign me up. Just like you are saying TB is just the best QB this year but really not that special, well that's Matthews. He might not ever even make it to LT.

This argument also applies to other positions. Why not go with one of Mack or Moseley who are exceptional?


Agreed. If you want to take Mosely, take Mosely, take Mack. This particular conversation was about OT... So I'm talking about OT.


Despite the new CBA and big boards supposed to be ordering based on talent there is still a bias to push QBs, OTs and DEs up the order. Now that RBs are out of fashion you don't see them appearing at the top nor do you see serious consideration being given to safeties or TEs. Moseley is arguably the best football player in this draft and as low a risk a player as you are ever going to come across. Let's pair him with Cushing.



Again, what thread are you posting in? The ILB/OLB thread or the OT.. OG thread?

Focus counselor.



That's pure freaking delusion. Could it happen - sure. I could win the lottery tomorrow. You don't go spending all your money today planing on winning the lottery tomorrow. It's dumb.


Delusional? It's the shoot for the moon theory.

http://data1.whicdn.com/images/58148009/large.jpg

In this context I'm saying if we try to improve the top of our roster, the bottom will naturally get better as a side product. If we continue to try to improve the bottom of our roster, we'll forever be mired in mediocrity. I gave two examples where we missed on 3rd round Offensive linemen. We've got more examples where we've missed on 2nd round pass rushers, late round WR#2. etc...

The draft is a crap shoot, we all know that. Don't twist this into me saying something I'm not.

You're telling me to learn the exception to the rule thing, after you are telling ObsiWan that Winston made our OL one of the best in the league. & the coaches who made that happen are no longer here. In their place, we've got a crew of first time NFL position coaches.




How'd we get down to the 3rd? DB isn't the issue. We need a RT.


What we need is to get better across the board. If you're telling me Duane Brown can't play RT, fine. Let's leave it at that.


Thanks for the trickle down football lecture. It's wonderful. Problem is it can be made about EVERY POSITION. In fact improvement at QB is the position the argument is best suited for.


What thread are we in? Is this the QB thread or the OT... OG thread?




In what universe? Seriously point to someone saying 4 OTs are better than all the QBs.


-->Me<--


Frankly all this says to me is disregard any attempt by TK to grade draft prospects. You don't even have a single wingnut analyst to support your whack grading of the QBs.


Frankly this says to me infantrycak is a sheep. He makes no attempt to analyze players on his own. If you disagree with Mayock, Kiper, McShay, et. al.... he don't want to hear it.

Greg Roginson, Taylor Lewan, Jake Matthews, Cyrus Kouandijo, & Zack Martin are closer to the protoypical franchise LT than any of the three QBs are to the prototypical QB. Kouandijo & Martin are definitely questionable at this time.

bah007
02-22-2014, 09:20 AM
...Greg Roginson, Taylor Lewan, Jake Matthews, Cyrus Kouandijo, & Zack Martin are closer to the protoypical franchise LT than any of the three QBs are to the prototypical QB. Kouandijo & Martin are definitely questionable at this time.

You're just a different cat so I'm not going to touch the rest of your post. I don't necessarily agree or disagree with it. It's just your opinion and it's been discussed at length.

I will touch this part, because you're not as right as you think you are.

Manziel is not prototypical in any way. Bridgewater is not prototypical size but he has the prototypical mental makeup for the next level. Bortles is prototypical size but his game is raw. So you're correct in saying that the top QBs are not very close to prototypical as a group.

But neither are the top OL. Robinson has all the physical tools and will likely be a franchise LT, but he played more like a RT in college. Lewan is a RT. Matthews is a RT/OG, and so is Martin. Kouandijo has LT potential but he will be starting off on the right side as well.

thunderkyss
02-22-2014, 09:55 AM
You're just a different cat so I'm not going to touch the rest of your post. I don't necessarily agree or disagree with it. It's just your opinion and it's been discussed at length.

I will touch this part, because you're not as right as you think you are.

Manziel is not prototypical in any way. Bridgewater is not prototypical size but he has the prototypical mental makeup for the next level. Bortles is prototypical size but his game is raw. So you're correct in saying that the top QBs are not very close to prototypical as a group.

But neither are the top OL. Robinson has all the physical tools and will likely be a franchise LT, but he played more like a RT in college. Lewan is a RT. Matthews is a RT/OG, and so is Martin. Kouandijo has LT potential but he will be starting off on the right side as well.

Thanks for the feedback. I hear what you're saying. A lot of the things you mentioned had a lot to do with the situation they were in. We don't know, at least I don't, how they will respond to the situation they will be put in after the draft.

We're talking about "prospects" They're going to receive coaching at the next level to add to their experience before the draft that will decide what they are going to be. My comment has more to do with size & experience. All these guys have the right size, played in major conferences for major programs, & played well at the position we're talking about.

None of the top three QBs have all three.

We're watching the combine now, which will tell us how well they've developed the individual tools to be able to do what will be asked of them at the next level (I'm still talking about the OTs here). I'm not totally disregarding what they did on the field, very likely the combine will tell us if what you've observed is the best we can expect from these guys.

Playoffs
02-22-2014, 10:28 AM
Spreadsheet for OL results here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/lv?key=0AseLAGMydisldHE0Rl9kOGxPXzhPckREX3NQd0dQTG c&f=true&noheader=true&gid=8

Josh Norris ‏@JoshNorris
Charles Davis has heard Tiny Richardson might have to redshirt his first year due to medicals. "Some (teams) might not touch him"

CloakNNNdagger
02-22-2014, 11:18 AM
Spreadsheet for OL results here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/lv?key=0AseLAGMydisldHE0Rl9kOGxPXzhPckREX3NQd0dQTG c&f=true&noheader=true&gid=8

Josh Norris ‏@JoshNorris

Just like Brennan Williams initially (http://www.battleredblog.com/2013/9/6/4701284/houston-texans-injuries-david-quessenberry-and-brennan-williams-have) Richardson has been misreported to have suffered a "MICROFRACTURE injury of the knee (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1882593-tennessee-football-why-vols-wont-miss-tiny-richardson-too-much-in-2014)," there is no such medical term assigned to an INJURY.........this is only a medical term assigned to a type of SURGERY. Williams' case was later correctly described as him undergoing "microfracture surgery(http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/8521/brennan-williams)." As I've posted with regards to Williams, prognosis after such surgery, which is performed to address CARTILAGE damage NOT bone FRACTURE, is seldom positive.

Lucky
02-22-2014, 11:27 AM
Just like Brennan Williams initially (http://www.battleredblog.com/2013/9/6/4701284/houston-texans-injuries-david-quessenberry-and-brennan-williams-have) Richardson has been misreported to have suffered a "MICROFRACTURE injury of the knee (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1882593-tennessee-football-why-vols-wont-miss-tiny-richardson-too-much-in-2014),"
So Richardson was able to play all year, and run his 40s at the combine with a knee injury? Crazy.

WolverineFan
02-22-2014, 11:34 AM
Do prototypes even matter anymore? The most prototypical 4-3 DE to come out in a decade is available and people want to move him to OLB.

Playoffs
02-22-2014, 12:17 PM
Taylor Lewan is kinda blowing it up in the drills. I need to go back and watch his interview to see for myself how "different" it was/was not.

CloakNNNdagger
02-22-2014, 12:18 PM
So Richardson was able to play all year, and run his 40s at the combine with a knee injury? Crazy.

My guess is that Richardson is scheduled to have microfracture for a knee injury that he played with last season. Microfracture surgery is performed for an area of joint surface denuded of cartilage resulting in exposed bone. If this has occurred on both opposing surfaces of the knee joint, it is what is referred to as "bone-on-bone." The longer a player has played with denuding on one surface, the greater the chance that the harder surface of the exposed bone will also grind down the opposing softer cartilage surface to underlying bone.........."bone on bone."

Lucky
02-22-2014, 12:22 PM
Greg Roginson, Taylor Lewan, Jake Matthews, Cyrus Kouandijo, & Zack Martin are closer to the protoypical franchise LT than any of the three QBs are to the prototypical QB. Kouandijo & Martin are definitely questionable at this time.
Let's say that's true. There have been 11 OTs selected in the top 5 over the past 10 drafts. Here's the list:

2013 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2013/draft.htm) 1 1 Eric Fisher (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/F/FishEr00.htm) OL KAN (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/kan/2013_draft.htm)
2013 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2013/draft.htm) 1 2 Luke Joeckel (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/J/JoecLu00.htm) OL JAX (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/jax/2013_draft.htm)
2013 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2013/draft.htm) 1 4 Lane Johnson (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/J/JohnLa01.htm) OL PHI
2012 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2012/draft.htm) 1 4 Matt Kalil (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/K/KaliMa00.htm) OL MIN (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/min/2012_draft.htm)
2010 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2010/draft.htm) 1 4 Trent Williams (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/W/WillTr21.htm) T WAS (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/was/2010_draft.htm)
2009 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2009/draft.htm) 1 2 Jason Smith (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/S/SmitJa22.htm) T STL (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/ram/2009_draft.htm)
2008 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2008/draft.htm) 1 1 Jake Long (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/L/LongJa20.htm) T MIA (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/mia/2008_draft.htm)
2007 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2007/draft.htm) 1 3 Joe Thomas (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/T/ThomJo28.htm) T CLE (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/cle/2007_draft.htm)
2007 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2007/draft.htm) 1 5 Levi Brown (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/B/BrowLe20.htm) T ARI (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/crd/2007_draft.htm)
2006 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2006/draft.htm) 1 4 D'Brickashaw Ferguson (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/F/FergDB20.htm) T NYJ (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nyj/2006_draft.htm)
2004 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2004/draft.htm) 1 2 Robert Gallery T (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/G/GallRo20.htm)Oak (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/G/GallRo20.htm)

Some very good, some good, some OK, and a couple of busts. But, none have really been difference makers in helping their teams become a contender. Mainly because, they didn't have a top QB to block for. I think Robinson or Matthews could be very good, to excellent LTs. But if they don't have a good QB to block for, their ability is wasted.

Now this is really gonna bake your noodle. I will say that over the past 7 years, you can often find an OT just about as good in the late 1st/early 2nd or later as you can find in the top 5.

2012 Matt Kahil (4) - Cordy Glenn (41)
2010 Trent Williams (4) - Jared Veldheer (69)
2009 Jason Smith (2) - Phil Loadholt (54)/ Sebastian Vollmer (58)/Others
2008 Jake Long (1) - Duane Brown (26)
2007 Joe Thomas (3) - Joe Staley (28)

To top it off, this is a deep OT class. So, there should still be quality OTs, especially those more suited to RT, available at 2-1. If you have a team that already has a QB (not the Texans), then a Robinson or Matthews might make sense. Maybe. The Texans don't have that QB. Yet.

kiwitexansfan
02-22-2014, 12:41 PM
Bitonio seems like a good tackle candidate.

Not a fan of Lewan.

beerlover
02-22-2014, 12:44 PM
Bitonio seems like a good tackle candidate.

Not a fan of Lewan.

thought Lewan looked great!

WolverineFan
02-22-2014, 12:48 PM
thought Lewan looked great!

His athleticism had been questioned so he answered a lot of that today. Still think interviews are the biggest thing with him. He's a weird dude and has a few off the field questions.

beerlover
02-22-2014, 12:50 PM
His athleticism had been questioned so he answered a lot of that today. Still think interviews are the biggest thing with him. He's a weird dude and has a few off the field questions.

perfect fit for da raiders :turtle:

bah007
02-22-2014, 12:59 PM
Lewan looks great in shorts. I'll have to rewatch any of his tape that I can find. He didn't look this athletic to me during games.

WolverineFan
02-22-2014, 01:05 PM
Lewan looks great in shorts. I'll have to rewatch any of his tape that I can find. He didn't look this athletic to me during games.

He's more athletic as a run blocker than he is as a pass blocker. Not sure why.

Texian
02-22-2014, 01:09 PM
He's more athletic as a run blocker than he is as a pass blocker. Not sure why.

going forward vs going backward.

Playoffs
02-22-2014, 01:27 PM
Xavier Su'a-Filo another who had a good day and it showed on tape.

Seantrel Henderson had a good day but his tape showed holes.

Cyrus Kouandjio had not so great day but tape shows otherwise.

Lewan sounds fine to me in this NFL.com interview, so I'm not so sure about earlier reports from the twitterverse about his questionable podium responses. Will have to chase that down.

thunderkyss
02-22-2014, 01:30 PM
Let's say that's true. There have been 11 OTs selected in the top 5 over the past 10 drafts. Here's the list:


To top it off, this is a deep OT class. So, there should still be quality OTs, especially those more suited to RT, available at 2-1. If you have a team that already has a QB (not the Texans), then a Robinson or Matthews might make sense. Maybe. The Texans don't have that QB. Yet.


To say this is a deep OT class & we can find a comparable prospect in the second... I don't have an issue with that. It's the kind of mindset I would like for the Texans to take into the draft.

What I don't want is for the Texans to think, "Well, we only need a RT, let's not look at the best of the best & focus on these guys over here."

I'd rather they look at it saying, "I need a CB, a safety, a QB, a pass rusher, an OT, & a WR. How can we get the best possible talents for each position. There's only one "A+" CB in this draft, 5 "A+" OTs, 4 "B" safeties, 6 "A" QBs, 3 "A+" pass rushers, etc... We can get that A+ CB with the first pick & still get an A+ OT, or A QB with the next pick.

I don't want them to think, "Well, we need a QB, so let's take the best A QB out there."

& it's not like I'm saying let's use our 1st on an OT..... it was brought up by one member, then marginalized by another. I felt the idea wasn't as far fetched as the marginalizing member made it out to be. I started this thread saying:

So assuming we take a QB with that first pick.... or a DE, who should we be looking for on the offensive line. I want a guard & a tackle. If you're high on Quessenbery, that's cool, what OT do you think will be there in the 6th, 7th, UD....

Is there a guard with high upside that can be had in the 3rd or 4th? I'm good with using a second... just need to know who's out there, who's worth checking out.

The Pencil Neck
02-22-2014, 01:38 PM
Lewan looks great in shorts. I'll have to rewatch any of his tape that I can find. He didn't look this athletic to me during games.

I saw a game of his where I wasn't really intending to look at him, I was looking at someone else, and I kept coming back to him because I thought he was doing a really good job.

Can't remember which game it was.

Playoffs
02-22-2014, 03:04 PM
Cyrus Kouandjio had not so great day but tape shows otherwise.

Ian Rapoport ‏@RapSheet
Bad news for #Bama OT Cyrus Kouandjio. I’m told several teams have failed him on his physical. Arthritic knee from failed surgery. “Ugly.”

Matt Miller ‏@nfldraftscout
I have late 1st round grade on Cyrus Kouandjio, but no way to tell if knee issue is genuinely something teams are worried about.

Josh Norris ‏@JoshNorris
Re: Kouandjio RT @brentsobleski: Genetic. Brother has chronic bad knees

Greg Gabriel ‏@greggabe
WAY to early to say Kouandjio drops a lot because of knee. Every team will look at it differently. He didn't miss time and that's important

Louis Delmas also flunked some physicals because of arthritic knees. He went at top of 2nd and became a top NFL safety

Dane Brugler ‏@dpbrugler
Lucas: Officially a stress fracture in his left foot

Bad news for OT Cornelius Lucas. Foot injury, out of the NFL Combine, 6-8 week rehab schedule

ObsiWan
02-22-2014, 03:29 PM
To say this is a deep OT class & we can find a comparable prospect in the second... I don't have an issue with that. It's the kind of mindset I would like for the Texans to take into the draft.

What I don't want is for the Texans to think, "Well, we only need a RT, let's not look at the best of the best & focus on these guys over here."

I'd rather they look at it saying, "I need a CB, a safety, a QB, a pass rusher, an OT, & a WR. How can we get the best possible talents for each position. There's only one "A+" CB in this draft, 5 "A+" OTs, 4 "B" safeties, 6 "A" QBs, 3 "A+" pass rushers, etc... We can get that A+ CB with the first pick & still get an A+ OT, or A QB with the next pick.

I don't want them to think, "Well, we need a QB, so let's take the best A QB out there."

& it's not like I'm saying let's use our 1st on an OT..... it was brought up by one member, then marginalized by another. I felt the idea wasn't as far fetched as the marginalizing member made it out to be. I started this thread saying:

Good strategy overall but one has to wonder how those needs are prioritized. Do they think that CB is a greater need than OT. Do they think that QB is a greater need than pass rusher or CB or OT? That prioritization will determine how we spend our picks; when we can gamble that the CB or OT we need will be there if we skip him and go QB or pass rusher. Further, when we "gamble" like that where can we afford to miss out? Will it hurt more to miss on a top tier OT at the expense of grabbing a top tier pass rusher. Will it hurt more to grab one of the few top tier CBs knowing that we'll have to settle for a 2nd tier QB?
I don't know.
Curious to see how other folks rank our needs and how much leeway they think there is at each position of need.
YOu know I've been singing the song of Matthews at 1-1. Maybe we can get away with a 2nd tier OT if we go Clowney or some QB at that spot.

CloakNNNdagger
02-22-2014, 03:37 PM
Dane Brugler ‏@dpbrugler

Josh Norris ‏@JoshNorris
Quote:
Re: Kouandjio RT @brentsobleski: Genetic. Brother has chronic bad knees



His brother has suffered through multiple knee injuries. I found that he was diagnosed as having problems related to patellar subluxation. It would be quite unusual to see this be diagnosed as "congenital" form so late. These are usually diagnosed before 6-7 years old and addressed surgically quickly before it can lead to significant adulthood problems. You can see this condition develop secondarily in knock-kneed adults that have put on large amounts of weight. Arie definitely looks knock-keed.

http://media.247sports.com/Uploads/Assets/462/16/6_1016462.jpg

Playoffs
02-24-2014, 02:39 PM
Short shuttle great OL drill...

Ikard, Gabe 4.37

Leno Jr., Charles 4.40
Bitonio, Joel 4.44
Su'a-Filo, Xavier 4.44
Paradis, Matthew 4.46
Groy, Ryan 4.47
Matthews, Jake 4.47
Urschel, John 4.47
Lewan, Taylor 4.49

James, Ja'Wuan 4.56
Schofield, Michael 4.57
Martin, Zack 4.59

Boffeli, Conor 4.61
Richburg, Weston 4.63
Stone, James 4.63
Johnson, Wesley 4.64
Mewhort, Jack 4.64
Swanson, Travis 4.65
Bodine, Russell 4.66
Britt, Justin 4.69

Larsen, Tyler 4.70
Turner, Billy 4.71
Henderson, Seantrel 4.77
Jackson, Gabe 4.78

Edwards, Kadeem 4.82
Halapio, Jon 4.83
Richardson, Cyril 4.83
Thomas, Brandon 4.83
Kouandjio, Cyrus 4.84
Feiler, Matt 4.86
Harrison, Jonotthan 4.86
Robinson, Greg 4.86
Yankey, David 4.86
Dozier, Dakota 4.89

Moses, Morgan 4.95

Fleming, Cameron 5.00

Fulton, Zach 5.16

TexansFTW
02-26-2014, 11:52 AM
We had one of the best QBs in the league at that time as well. He was taken in the 3rd round of the NFL draft. The Seahawks just won the Super Bowl with a QB they selected in the third round.

You should really stop trying to compare us to the Seahawks thinking we can easily replicate that. Every now and then a legendary defense forms and they have wild success no matter who is under center.

Be it 2000 Ravens, 2002 Bucks, or 2013 Hawks. It's generally not very sustainable and very rarely replicated. You keep chasing this pipe dream you will end with shattered dreams and lots of 'what if's'.

You want to build the best OLine in football and think you can just plug in any Yahoo at QB you will find yourself in the position of the Redskins (3 wins with 3rd best OL), Browns (4 wins with 5th best OL), or Vikings (5 wins with 6th best OL). Great QBs make great offensive lines. Great coaches compensate for poor OLines. You can't have everything, ask Cleveland AKA Trenches.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2014/01/13/2013-offensive-line-rankings/4/

In 2012 the Eagles were the worst OLine ever to many people. In 2013 under a new coach and a smarter QB no one says a word about them. Same can be said for the Bears. If you only focus on protypical features you are Al Davis, and the game passed him by and he doomed a faithful fan base to many years of heartache and sadness.

Moving on...

One of the best Guards in FA is Richie Incognito, dude was a Pro Bowler and a beast. There was reason he was a team captain. We need to bring him in for the pennies he will demand and have Q and Williams and a 4th/5th rounder (my pick is JuWuan James) compete for that RT job.

steelbtexan
02-26-2014, 01:27 PM
You should really stop trying to compare us to the Seahawks thinking we can easily replicate that. Every now and then a legendary defense forms and they have wild success no matter who is under center.

Be it 2000 Ravens, 2002 Bucks, or 2013 Hawks. It's generally not very sustainable and very rarely replicated. You keep chasing this pipe dream you will end with shattered dreams and lots of 'what if's'.

You want to build the best OLine in football and think you can just plug in any Yahoo at QB you will find yourself in the position of the Redskins (3 wins with 3rd best OL), Browns (4 wins with 5th best OL), or Vikings (5 wins with 6th best OL). Great QBs make great offensive lines. Great coaches compensate for poor OLines. You can't have everything, ask Cleveland AKA Trenches.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2014/01/13/2013-offensive-line-rankings/4/

In 2012 the Eagles were the worst OLine ever to many people. In 2013 under a new coach and a smarter QB no one says a word about them. Same can be said for the Bears. If you only focus on protypical features you are Al Davis, and the game passed him by and he doomed a faithful fan base to many years of heartache and sadness.

Moving on...

One of the best Guards in FA is Richie Incognito, dude was a Pro Bowler and a beast. There was reason he was a team captain. We need to bring him in for the pennies he will demand and have Q and Williams and a 4th/5th rounder (my pick is JuWuan James) compete for that RT job.

I agree with most of this.

However drafting Garappolo/Murray/Mettenberger isn't just plugging in any old QB. These guys have as much talent as the top 3 guys. IMHO The only reason they may be available in the 2nd/3rd rd is (Garappolo, small school guy) (Mett/Murray, injuries.) In fact I will go out on a limb and say Mett/Murray have stronger arms/do better on the wonderlich/played in pro style offenses than, or like your boy TB.

thunderkyss
02-26-2014, 02:48 PM
You should really stop trying to compare us to the Seahawks thinking we can easily replicate that. Every now and then a legendary defense forms and they have wild success no matter who is under center.

That wasn't the point of that post.

TexansFTW
02-26-2014, 03:46 PM
I agree with most of this.

However drafting Garappolo/Murray/Mettenberger isn't just plugging in any old QB. These guys have as much talent as the top 3 guys. IMHO The only reason they may be available in the 2nd/3rd rd is (Garappolo, small school guy) (Mett/Murray, injuries.) In fact I will go out on a limb and say Mett/Murray have stronger arms/do better on the wonderlich/played in pro style offenses than, or like your boy TB.

Fair enough and that is your right and I respect your rights. 'Merica!

I don't see anything sustainable or special in those guys. In the right system (A Seahawks/49ers/Cardinals) type system I think they can play QB at the NFL level. Almost every other situation I see them as flame outs and journeyman until their time in the league is over.

steelbtexan
02-26-2014, 09:00 PM
Fair enough and that is your right and I respect your rights. 'Merica!

I don't see anything sustainable or special in those guys. In the right system (A Seahawks/49ers/Cardinals) type system I think they can play QB at the NFL level. Almost every other situation I see them as flame outs and journeyman until their time in the league is over.

Same could be said about the top 3. Although like Garappolo/Mett/Murray I think one of Bortles/Manziel/Bridgewater will become a franchise QB. The other 2 on both levels will be Romo/Dalton/Palmer type QB's.

thunderkyss
03-02-2014, 06:36 PM
Cyrus Kouandjio... are you interested if he falls to 2-1? Or are you not interested because of the arthritic knee?

Greg Robinson, Taylor Lewan, Jake Matthews, Zack Martin, Cyrus Kouandjio, Morgan Moses, Antonio Richardson. What are the odds of one of these guys being there at 2-1? I'm drawing the line at Zack Martin, I think those 4 are excellent OT prospects, I'm worried about Cyrus' knee & I think Moses & Richardson are very good prospects.

I'd be open to taking a QB in the first, if I could get one of these guys in the second.

kiwitexansfan
03-02-2014, 06:44 PM
Cyrus Kouandjio... are you interested if he falls to 2-1? Or are you not interested because of the arthritic knee?

Greg Robinson, Taylor Lewan, Jake Matthews, Zack Martin, Cyrus Kouandjio, Morgan Moses, Antonio Richardson. What are the odds of one of these guys being there at 2-1? I'm drawing the line at Zack Martin, I think those 4 are excellent OT prospects, I'm worried about Cyrus' knee & I think Moses & Richardson are very good prospects.

I'd be open to taking a QB in the first, if I could get one of these guys in the second.

I'd pass on Kouandijo at 2:1. 3:1 probably take a punt.

thunderkyss
03-02-2014, 06:52 PM
I'd pass on Kouandijo at 2:1. 3:1 probably take a punt.

Because of the knee? The poor combine? Or you never really liked him to begin with?

kiwitexansfan
03-02-2014, 07:01 PM
Because of the knee? The poor combine? Or you never really liked him to begin with?

The knee. I like him as a prospect had him at 30 on my big board but don't want to invest good draft picks in a guy who could be a walking time bomb.

steelbtexan
03-02-2014, 07:05 PM
The knee. I like him as a prospect had him at 30 on my big board but don't want to invest good draft picks in a guy who could be a walking time bomb.

Yep,

I would have to pass on him after the B.Williams fiasco.

The Pencil Neck
03-02-2014, 07:47 PM
Cyrus Kouandjio... are you interested if he falls to 2-1? Or are you not interested because of the arthritic knee?

Greg Robinson, Taylor Lewan, Jake Matthews, Zack Martin, Cyrus Kouandjio, Morgan Moses, Antonio Richardson. What are the odds of one of these guys being there at 2-1? I'm drawing the line at Zack Martin, I think those 4 are excellent OT prospects, I'm worried about Cyrus' knee & I think Moses & Richardson are very good prospects.

I'd be open to taking a QB in the first, if I could get one of these guys in the second.

I pass on him until the later rounds because of the knee. I was hoping we'd be able to nab him at 2-1 prior to the Combine.

ObsiWan
03-02-2014, 09:59 PM
Cyrus Kouandjio... are you interested if he falls to 2-1? Or are you not interested because of the arthritic knee?

Greg Robinson, Taylor Lewan, Jake Matthews, Zack Martin, Cyrus Kouandjio, Morgan Moses, Antonio Richardson. What are the odds of one of these guys being there at 2-1? I'm drawing the line at Zack Martin, I think those 4 are excellent OT prospects, I'm worried about Cyrus' knee & I think Moses & Richardson are very good prospects.

I'd be open to taking a QB in the first, if I could get one of these guys in the second.

I'd pass on Kouandijo at 2:1. 3:1 probably take a punt.

Because of the knee? The poor combine? Or you never really liked him to begin with?

The knee. I like him as a prospect had him at 30 on my big board but don't want to invest good draft picks in a guy who could be a walking time bomb.

Yep,

I would have to pass on him after the B.Williams fiasco.

I pass on him until the later rounds because of the knee. I was hoping we'd be able to nab him at 2-1 prior to the Combine.
Didn't our friendly neighborhood sports doctor post something about Kouandjio being perpetually subject to knee issues basically because of his being knock-kneed and so large...?

can't find that post right now....

The Pencil Neck
03-02-2014, 10:02 PM
Didn't our friendly neighborhood sports doctor post something about Kouandjio being perpetually subject to knee issues basically because of his being knock-kneed and so large...?

can't find that post right now....

Yep.

ObsiWan
03-02-2014, 10:06 PM
Cyrus Kouandjio... are you interested if he falls to 2-1? Or are you not interested because of the arthritic knee?

Greg Robinson, Taylor Lewan, Jake Matthews, Zack Martin, Cyrus Kouandjio, Morgan Moses, Antonio Richardson. What are the odds of one of these guys being there at 2-1? I'm drawing the line at Zack Martin, I think those 4 are excellent OT prospects, I'm worried about Cyrus' knee & I think Moses & Richardson are very good prospects.

I'd be open to taking a QB in the first, if I could get one of these guys in the second.

I'd pass on Kouandijo at 2:1. 3:1 probably take a punt.

Because of the knee? The poor combine? Or you never really liked him to begin with?

The knee. I like him as a prospect had him at 30 on my big board but don't want to invest good draft picks in a guy who could be a walking time bomb.

Yep,

I would have to pass on him after the B.Williams fiasco.

I pass on him until the later rounds because of the knee. I was hoping we'd be able to nab him at 2-1 prior to the Combine.
Didn't our friendly neighborhood sports doctor post something about Kouandjio being perpetually subject to knee issues basically because of his being knock-kneed and so large...?

Edit (found it)

His brother has suffered through multiple knee injuries. I found that he was diagnosed as having problems related to patellar subluxation. It would be quite unusual to see this be diagnosed as "congenital" form so late. These are usually diagnosed before 6-7 years old and addressed surgically quickly before it can lead to significant adulthood problems. You can see this condition develop secondarily in knock-kneed adults that have put on large amounts of weight. Arie definitely looks knock-keed.

http://media.247sports.com/Uploads/Assets/462/16/6_1016462.jpg

thunderkyss
03-02-2014, 11:07 PM
Didn't our friendly neighborhood sports doctor post something about Kouandjio being perpetually subject to knee issues basically because of his being knock-kneed and so large...?

Edit (found it)

I don't think Cyrus' problem is due to the knock-kneed issue. He failed his physical, because arthritis set up in his knee after an MCL surgery.

kiwitexansfan
03-03-2014, 12:24 AM
Was it his brother that is knock kneeed?

ObsiWan
03-03-2014, 12:38 AM
Was it his brother that is knock kneeed?
That photo tells me both are; although one may be a bit more pronounced than the other.

Wolf6151
03-03-2014, 04:57 AM
Cyrus Kouandjio... are you interested if he falls to 2-1? Or are you not interested because of the arthritic knee?



I agree with Kiwi and SteelB, I'd take Kouandjio off my board if I were the Texans unless we can get him really late or as an UDFA, then he might be worth the risk.

TexansFTW
03-03-2014, 08:02 AM
I agree with Kiwi and SteelB, I'd take Kouandjio off my board if I were the Texans unless we can get him really late or as an UDFA, then he might be worth the risk.

MIGHT be? The guy didn't lose his legs.

Texian
03-03-2014, 08:31 AM
Yep,

I would have to pass on him after the B.Williams fiasco.

Those who do not learn from history are bound to repeat it.

infantrycak
03-03-2014, 09:06 AM
I don't think Cyrus' problem is due to the knock-kneed issue. He failed his physical, because arthritis set up in his knee after an MCL surgery.

Smarter than Doc again? He and I disagree sometimes on effects of injuries for example I don't think Cushing's loss of lateral agility is as great as he does (present but not as significant) but never seen him wrong on a diagnosis yet.

To the original question - wouldn't take him until a couple rounds after his talent level so 4th or later.

CloakNNNdagger
03-03-2014, 09:53 AM
I don't think Cyrus' problem is due to the knock-kneed issue. He failed his physical, because arthritis set up in his knee after an MCL surgery.


Cyrus Kouandjio should have been so lucky as to have suffered only a medial meniscus injury. It is unfotunate that his surgery has been commonly misreported as a surgery for a medial meniscus tear. In actuality, Kouandjio underwent ACL surgery during his freshman year at Alabama and his present issues appear to be related to that injury. As I have related numerous times in previous threads, all ACL tears are not the same. The associated injuries (other ligaments, meniscus and articular cartilage) often determine the ACL outcome and recovery. This appears to be a case where the articular cartilage was significantly injured. Most common and most worrisome is when the lateral (outside) surface is damaged. Progression of and from the cartilate damage then leads to arthritis.

Even if Cyrus had excellent repair of his AC under the circumstances described above, progression of the already cartilage-severely damaged joint would be expected to progress to arthritis.......and eventually to knee replacement.

And as for having knock knees, I haven't found a good full length picture to definitely prove or refute this type stature in Cyrus. However, if a sibling of similar height and weight has it, it would not be uncommon for them to share similar characteristics. Just for the record, if Cyrus does have any degree of knock knee, it would in itself automatically place the knee joint under extra pressure (actually very great extra pressure due to Cyrus' size), especially on that most important lateral (outside) surface of the joint [See the middle depiction of knock knee in the figure below]. This alone would likely lead to the wear-grind down of cartilage, which would lead to arthritis in later life.........and eventually require joint replacement. Also keep in mind that if he does have an element of knock knee, repair of his ACL does not correct this condition.......and the condition would continue to contribute to the deterioration of an already damaged knee joint.


http://www.knee-replacement-explained.com/images/OSTEOTOMY.jpg


In any event, there is good reason for teams to demonstrate caution in their approach to this big man.

bah007
03-03-2014, 10:22 AM
I wasn't high on Kouandijo even before this came out and I'm certainly not now. His high grades were based off of last year's tape with Warmack playing next to him making him look better. He was okay this year, above average at best.

He's off my board for the Texans. Let another team take that risk and see if it pays off. He seems like a good kid so hopefully it does.

I think one of Richardson/Moses could be there at #33, likely Moses. Both are RTs with little chance of ever being a LT so I'll pass and take a better player.

You can get a solid RT later in the draft. One of JuWaun James/Joel Bitonio in the 3rd. Billy Turner/Wesley Johnson in the 4th. Michael Schofield in the 5th.

CloakNNNdagger
03-03-2014, 11:49 AM
For those interested, it is felt that the knock knee condition in an athlete predisposes that athlete to ACL injury. A number of recent studies have shown that young female athletes sustain more ACL injuries than young males. In fact, depending on the study, young women are two to eight times more likely than their male counterparts to injure that ligament.

There are many different theories as to why young women suffer a higher rate of ACL injuries. But one of the foremost is that women in general have more of a knock-knee alignment, and that this alignment, even when mild, tends to bend inward when women land, thus predisposing women to ACL injuries.

The Pencil Neck
03-03-2014, 11:54 AM
For those interested, it is felt that the knock knee condition in an athlete predisposes that athlete to ACL injury. A number of recent studies have shown that young female athletes sustain more ACL injuries than young males. In fact, depending on the study, young women are two to eight times more likely than their male counterparts to injure that ligament.

There are many different theories as to why young women suffer a higher rate of ACL injuries. But one of the foremost is that women in general have more of a knock-knee alignment, and that this alignment, even when mild, tends to bend inward when women land, thus predisposing women to ACL injuries.

That's the Q-Angle, right?

badboy
03-03-2014, 12:01 PM
My 1 1/2 cents: cannot afford to take risks on players with knee injuries. K and A. Richardson off my board. Still think we can draft J. James for RT. Do we take chance Quessenberry for LG after only minimal TC exposure? Qb regardless of whom needs solid Oline and a healthy RB.

TexansFTW
03-03-2014, 03:12 PM
So you're saying men that get ACL tears have woman knees. Interesting...

EDIT: This is a joke, not to be taken seriously, but since I can't delete this whole post I will just leave this poor attempt at a joke up.

Wolf6151
03-03-2014, 05:37 PM
I wasn't high on Kouandijo even before this came out and I'm certainly not now. His high grades were based off of last year's tape with Warmack playing next to him making him look better. He was okay this year, above average at best.

He's off my board for the Texans. Let another team take that risk and see if it pays off. He seems like a good kid so hopefully it does.

I think one of Richardson/Moses could be there at #33, likely Moses. Both are RTs with little chance of ever being a LT so I'll pass and take a better player.

You can get a solid RT later in the draft. One of JuWaun James/Joel Bitonio in the 3rd. Billy Turner/Wesley Johnson in the 4th. Michael Schofield in the 5th.


Where does Seantrel Henderson fit on your list? I know that he has off the field issues, and some injury issues, but I've also read that he has all the tools to be a good pro but seems to lack the proper motivation. I read a post on another site, by someone claiming to know him personally, who stated that Seantrel has the size, strength, and quickness to be an NFL OT, but that he is LAZY and doesn't like working out. He sounds like someone who needs the proper motivation and structure of an NFL team.

thunderkyss
03-03-2014, 06:29 PM
And as for having knock knees, I haven't found a good full length picture to definitely prove or refute this type stature in Cyrus.


So you didn't say his knee issue was due to being knock-kneed? & some folk misinterpreted what you did say?


However, if a sibling of similar height and weight has it, it would not be uncommon for them to share similar characteristics. Just for the record, if Cyrus does have any degree of knock knee, it would in itself automatically place the knee joint under extra pressure (actually very great extra pressure due to Cyrus' size), especially on that most important lateral (outside) surface of the joint [See the middle depiction of knock knee in the figure below]. This alone would likely lead to the wear-grind down of cartilage, which would lead to arthritis in later life.........and eventually require joint replacement. Also keep in mind that if he does have an element of knock knee, repair of his ACL does not correct this condition.......and the condition would continue to contribute to the deterioration of an already damaged knee joint.


http://www.knee-replacement-explained.com/images/OSTEOTOMY.jpg


In any event, there is good reason for teams to demonstrate caution in their approach to this big man.


Understood, thanks for being so thorough.

CloakNNNdagger
03-03-2014, 07:38 PM
So you didn't say his knee issue was due to being knock-kneed? & some folk misinterpreted what you did say?




Understood, thanks for being so thorough.

Appreciate the comment.

If one reads my initial post, the knock knee comment was related to his brother's main problem.......recurrent subluxing (displacing) patella. Just wanted to point out that adult form subluxing patella is not genetic. And knock knee can be isolated genetic (meaning congenital-present since birth) but still not be familial (run in families). And I could not find definitive evidence that Cyrus was knock kneed either in pictures or in print.

Whatever, may be the case, he has evidently destroyed significant cartilage, secondary to a major ACL injury that we know at least know took out his medial meniscus........and very likely other supporting ligaments. And, if knock knee exists, it only serves to be an additional complicating factor to his injury, recovery, and long-term prognosis.

infantrycak
03-03-2014, 07:44 PM
& some folk misinterpreted what you did say?

I apologize.

CloakNNNdagger
03-03-2014, 08:11 PM
I apologize.

I can see how my original post could have been a little confusing. Nevertheless, I will be looking forward to seeing Cyrus on football Sunday somewhere, to see if he is or is not indeed knock kneed.:)

bah007
03-03-2014, 09:44 PM
Where does Seantrel Henderson fit on your list? I know that he has off the field issues, and some injury issues, but I've also read that he has all the tools to be a good pro but seems to lack the proper motivation. I read a post on another site, by someone claiming to know him personally, who stated that Seantrel has the size, strength, and quickness to be an NFL OT, but that he is LAZY and doesn't like working out. He sounds like someone who needs the proper motivation and structure of an NFL team.

I have him rated as a 4th round prospect. His physical tools probably rate as a 2nd rounder but he has the mental makeup of a 6th rounder. So his value is probably right in the middle. I don't want the Texans to take him unless they can grab him later than that. If he reaches his potential he could be special, but if that switch hasn't flipped on yet it's not likely it ever will be. Not a risk I think the Texans should take.

CloakNNNdagger
03-03-2014, 11:27 PM
I have him rated as a 4th round prospect. His physical tools probably rate as a 2nd rounder but he has the mental makeup of a 6th rounder. So his value is probably right in the middle. I don't want the Texans to take him unless they can grab him later than that. If he reaches his potential he could be special, but if that switch hasn't flipped on yet it's not likely it ever will be. Not a risk I think the Texans should take.

Mental tools more like a 6th grader. To mention a few, multiple suspensions for team rules infractions. Then last summer when, in between funerals for a close friend and an aunt, he was involved in a car accident, sustaining a concussion (He was driving with an expired license and ran a red light, crashing into a car carrying a family of six). We don't really need another Montgomery this year.

ObsiWan
03-04-2014, 01:36 AM
I can see how my original post could have been a little confusing. Nevertheless, I will be looking forward to seeing Cyrus on football Sunday somewhere, to see if he is or is not indeed knock kneed.:)
I need to read your posts more carefully. Sorry about that.

Wolf6151
03-04-2014, 02:18 AM
I wasn't high on Kouandijo even before this came out and I'm certainly not now. His high grades were based off of last year's tape with Warmack playing next to him making him look better. He was okay this year, above average at best.

He's off my board for the Texans. Let another team take that risk and see if it pays off. He seems like a good kid so hopefully it does.

I think one of Richardson/Moses could be there at #33, likely Moses. Both are RTs with little chance of ever being a LT so I'll pass and take a better player.

You can get a solid RT later in the draft. One of JuWaun James/Joel Bitonio in the 3rd. Billy Turner/Wesley Johnson in the 4th. Michael Schofield in the 5th.


What's your opinion on Cameron Fleming-OT from Stanford. He's got 3 yrs. starting experience, all at RT, and has great NFL size for the position. The guys also graduating Stanford this spring with a degree in Aeronautics and Astronautics, so he's got brains. Take him maybe in the 4th or 5th round if we haven't been able to find value at OT earlier in the draft.

ObsiWan
03-04-2014, 03:49 AM
What's your opinion on Cameron Fleming-OT from Stanford. He's got 3 yrs. starting experience, all at RT, and has great NFL size for the position. The guys also graduating Stanford this spring with a degree in Aeronautics and Astronautics, so he's got brains. Take him maybe in the 4th or 5th round if we haven't been able to find value at OT earlier in the draft.
he should come to work for me...
https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR_j2cbFFcvMIcS0zGPKylBLsH8Kirca-wCsts0MlPDrfvTUyi8Dg
We don't care about any combine numbers
:D

bah007
03-04-2014, 07:29 AM
Mental tools more like a 6th grader. To mention a few, multiple suspensions for team rules infractions. Then last summer when, in between funerals for a close friend and an aunt, he was involved in a car accident, sustaining a concussion (He was driving with an expired license and ran a red light, crashing into a car carrying a family of six). We don't really need another Montgomery this year.

I agree with you. If he's there late in the draft his talent might be worth a shot, but I don't think he has much chance of ever becoming what he has the potential to be.

He's the kind of kid who has never been held responsible for his own actions because his talent in football was so great that it got him out of every jam he got himself into. I don't know if you can break that at this point.

bah007
03-04-2014, 07:38 AM
What's your opinion on Cameron Fleming-OT from Stanford. He's got 3 yrs. starting experience, all at RT, and has great NFL size for the position. The guys also graduating Stanford this spring with a degree in Aeronautics and Astronautics, so he's got brains. Take him maybe in the 4th or 5th round if we haven't been able to find value at OT earlier in the draft.

I have him graded 4th round. He's a RT all the way. Excellent run blocker but suspect pass blocker. He seems to move incredibly slow, which is obviously not ideal. Because of the offense at Stanford, his weaknesses are masked pretty well. This is not a guy who you want to ask to move very much. His feet are so bad he may even have to move to RG, despite his height. He would be best off being drafted by a run heavy team who won't ask him to do very much.

I do respect his intelligence and he seems to have a very good head on his shoulders. Seems to take coaching very well. I think if he lands on the right team he will be successful.

CloakNNNdagger
03-04-2014, 08:03 AM
What's your opinion on Cameron Fleming-OT from Stanford. He's got 3 yrs. starting experience, all at RT, and has great NFL size for the position. The guys also graduating Stanford this spring with a degree in Aeronautics and Astronautics, so he's got brains. Take him maybe in the 4th or 5th round if we haven't been able to find value at OT earlier in the draft.

As Bah007 has pointed out, he is far from light on his feet. I can't see him playing other than interior line in the NFL. Good thing, his injury history is limited to only an ankle injury in 2011 in which he only missed 2 games......no problems since. One thing of concern to me is that every write-up of his performance that I've read never fails to point out that he does not have aggressive or nasty play. Maybe this could be affected with flanking teammates being equipped with concealable cattle prods.:pirate:

Playoffs
03-04-2014, 02:41 PM
Knox Bardeen ‏@knoxbardeen
Greg Robinson is working out for the #Bucs on Friday. It's his first workout for a pro team #AUProDay

Wolf6151
03-04-2014, 04:58 PM
I have him graded 4th round. He's a RT all the way. Excellent run blocker but suspect pass blocker. He seems to move incredibly slow, which is obviously not ideal. Because of the offense at Stanford, his weaknesses are masked pretty well. This is not a guy who you want to ask to move very much. His feet are so bad he may even have to move to RG, despite his height. He would be best off being drafted by a run heavy team who won't ask him to do very much.

I do respect his intelligence and he seems to have a very good head on his shoulders. Seems to take coaching very well. I think if he lands on the right team he will be successful.

This was my opinion as well from reading between the lines of his evaluations. Technique can be coached up, but speed and quickness, not so much.

Where do you see James Hurst-OT from North Carolina? I'm thinking 4th or 5th round due to his injury and the fact that he can't workout for teams. He also needs to add probably 20 lbs. of weight but I think that will come quickly once he gets on a NFL S&C program. The injury as I understand it was a broken left leg but as I understand it bones heal better than tendons do. CND feel free to correct me if that's not right. I think he could be good for a team that can afford to let him come along slowly, maybe even on their IR list depending on the severity of the broken bone, and maybe even miss his entire rookie season.

bah007
03-04-2014, 05:09 PM
This was my opinion as well from reading between the lines of his evaluations. Technique can be coached up, but speed and quickness, not so much.

Where do you see James Hurst-OT from North Carolina? I'm thinking 4th or 5th round due to his injury and the fact that he can't workout for teams. He also needs to add probably 20 lbs. of weight but I think that will come quickly once he gets on a NFL S&C program. The injury as I understand it was a broken left leg but as I understand it bones heal better than tendons do. CND feel free to correct me if that's not right. I think he could be good for a team that can afford to let him come along slowly, maybe even on their IR list depending on the severity of the broken bone, and maybe even miss his entire rookie season.

I have him going late 3rd round, despite the injury. Non-displaced fibula fracture is what I've read, which should have no lingering effects as long as it is allowed to heal properly. CND can step in if I'm wrong on that.

I think he's a guy that could be an above average RT/LG or an average LT. Fits a variety of offensive schemes, solid but unspectacular player. Good pass protector, good run blocker, good athleticism.

steelbtexan
03-04-2014, 05:51 PM
I have him going late 3rd round, despite the injury. Non-displaced fibula fracture is what I've read, which should have no lingering effects as long as it is allowed to heal properly. CND can step in if I'm wrong on that.

I think he's a guy that could be an above average RT/LG or an average LT. Fits a variety of offensive schemes, solid but unspectacular player. Good pass protector, good run blocker, good athleticism.

Good fit for the Texans at 4-1.

WolverineFan
03-04-2014, 07:24 PM
Where do you see James Hurst-OT from North Carolina? I'm thinking 4th or 5th round due to his injury and the fact that he can't workout for teams. He also needs to add probably 20 lbs. of weight but I think that will come quickly once he gets on a NFL S&C program. The injury as I understand it was a broken left leg but as I understand it bones heal better than tendons do. CND feel free to correct me if that's not right. I think he could be good for a team that can afford to let him come along slowly, maybe even on their IR list depending on the severity of the broken bone, and maybe even miss his entire rookie season.

I'm a big fan of Hurst although I think he is a limited athletically. Good pass blocker and a very good technician in the run game. He's not a mauler though and doesn't play with a whole lot of power. I'm also not sure he could put on 20 lbs. His frame looks pretty maxed out. He looks like purely a ZBS guy to me, which is not necessarily a bad thing. I had him at late 2nd - early 3rd before the injury. Probably falls to the 4th now.

CloakNNNdagger
03-04-2014, 07:41 PM
This was my opinion as well from reading between the lines of his evaluations. Technique can be coached up, but speed and quickness, not so much.

Where do you see James Hurst-OT from North Carolina? I'm thinking 4th or 5th round due to his injury and the fact that he can't workout for teams. He also needs to add probably 20 lbs. of weight but I think that will come quickly once he gets on a NFL S&C program. The injury as I understand it was a broken left leg but as I understand it bones heal better than tendons do. CND feel free to correct me if that's not right. I think he could be good for a team that can afford to let him come along slowly, maybe even on their IR list depending on the severity of the broken bone, and maybe even miss his entire rookie season.

I have him going late 3rd round, despite the injury. Non-displaced fibula fracture is what I've read, which should have no lingering effects as long as it is allowed to heal properly. CND can step in if I'm wrong on that.

I think he's a guy that could be an above average RT/LG or an average LT. Fits a variety of offensive schemes, solid but unspectacular player. Good pass protector, good run blocker, good athleticism.

Both of you are absolutely correct..............Hurst may be rusty, but should be good to go by his Pro Day.......and should have no long term effects from this injury.

Playoffs
03-05-2014, 01:23 PM
2014 Pro Days: Jake Matthews draws crowd at Texas A&M workout (http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/nfl-draft-scout/24469374/pro-days-texas-am-ot-matthews-draws-crowd)
After directing Auburn's Greg Robinson, NFLDraftScout.com's No. 2 overall prospect, through his position-specific routine Tuesday, Rams offensive line coach Paul Boudreau pushed Texas A&M offensive tackle Jake Matthews -- our third-ranked prospect -- through drills in College Station, Texas, at the Aggies' pro day Wednesday.

The Rams contingent included general manager Les Snead, widely regarded as the top target to deal down in the 2014 draft from No. 2. Because St. Louis is set at defensive end and, as the Rams maintain, quarterback, moving down would open the possibility of drafting Matthews, projected to be drafted anywhere from No. 6-12. Boudreau is a 27-year veteran with a notable list of first-round pick pupils including seven-time Pro Bowl tackle Orlando Pace, left tackle Todd Steussie (Vikings, Panthers) and Lomas Brown (Lions)...

Bills general manager Doug Whaley and Steelers general manager Kevin Colbert -- teams with needs at offensive tackle -- were also spotted Wednesday. The Atlanta Falcons were represented and general manager Thomas Dimitroff has spoken highly of Matthews. Atlanta owns the sixth overall pick; the Bills pick ninth...

Playoffs
03-06-2014, 02:10 PM
Cyrus Kouandjio should have been so lucky as to have suffered only a medial meniscus injury....
http://www.knee-replacement-explained.com/images/OSTEOTOMY.jpg

In any event, there is good reason for teams to demonstrate caution in their approach to this big man.

Dr. James Andrews says no issues with Cyrus Kouandjio's knee (http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/writer/jason-la-canfora/24470778/dr-james-andrews-says-no-issues-with-cyrus-kouandjios-knee)
Dr. James Andrews is sending a medical update to every NFL team to clear up what he calls misinformation about the health of Alabama tackle Cyrus Kouandjio.

A report during the NFL combine indicated that Kouandjio, a potential first-round pick, had failed several physicals in Indianapolis as a result of a "failed" surgery on his knee in college.

Andrews, who did not perform Kouandjio's surgery, dismissed the notion that the surgery was botched and has continued to evaluate the player regularly as he continues his training for Alabama's pro day (Andrews works closely with the Alabama program and has been abreast of the tackle's knee since he arrived on campus).

Kouandjio's performance at the combine was poor -- something he has acknowledged to those close to him and that he is aiming to overcome as he works out for teams in the future. But the tackle's showing was unrelated to his knee, according to Andrews as well as Alabama team doctor Lyle Cain, who performed the surgery...

Playoffs
03-06-2014, 02:14 PM
Brandon Thomas (http://walterfootball.com/proday.php), whose stock has been on a steady rise the past two months, further improved his draft grade today. Thomas looked terrific in position drills, effortlessly moving around the field. I'm told just about every team in attendance to watch Thomas today has him affixed to their tackle board rather than guard. People I've spoken with feel he's moved into the draft's initial 45 picks and could end up landing in the late part of round one depending how early Zach Martin comes off the board.

jradMIT
03-06-2014, 03:32 PM
Dr. James Andrews says no issues with Cyrus Kouandjio's knee (http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/writer/jason-la-canfora/24470778/dr-james-andrews-says-no-issues-with-cyrus-kouandjios-knee)

On all the drills the guys on the combine show were giving him bad reviews, on the pull drill they talked about how his head was popping right up, which shows a lack of athleticism and lower body flexibility.

TexansFTW
03-06-2014, 03:46 PM
Dr. James Andrews says no issues with Cyrus Kouandjio's knee (http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/writer/jason-la-canfora/24470778/dr-james-andrews-says-no-issues-with-cyrus-kouandjios-knee)

Sounds like a Doctor trying to get his coworkers back to me.

CloakNNNdagger
03-06-2014, 05:24 PM
Dr. James Andrews says no issues with Cyrus Kouandjio's knee (http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/writer/jason-la-canfora/24470778/dr-james-andrews-says-no-issues-with-cyrus-kouandjios-knee)

Here is an article that explains the medical/orthopedic evaluation of NFL Combine players (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1968230-an-inside-look-into-the-nfl-medical-exam-process-at-the-combine#articles/1968230-an-inside-look-into-the-nfl-medical-exam-process-at-the-combine). A myriad of physicians, surgeons and trainers are involved. It is unlikely that most if not all are wrong............and one sole voice in the wilderness is not. Isn't Andrews the same Andrews that allowed an RGIII who through any non-medical eyes would have put the QB on crutches or on a gurney close to the beginning of the game?.........instead of letting him limp around helplessly until he blew out his knee ?

And for those of you that may not have access to this information, be aware that the operating surgeon Dr. Lyle Cain studied under Dr. Andrews. In fact, he was Andrews personal Fellow prior to going into formal practice at............where else, but the Andrews Sports Medicine & Orthopaedic Center in Alabama, where to date he maintains his practice.:kitten:

Playoffs
03-06-2014, 06:47 PM
...A myriad of physicians, surgeons and trainers are involved. It is unlikely that most if not all are wrong............and one sole voice in the wilderness is not. Isn't Andrews the same Andrews that allowed an RGIII...

Ha!

I figured that would get your dander up. :D

CloakNNNdagger
03-06-2014, 07:17 PM
Ha!

I figured that would get your dander up. :D

I may sound calm now. But in my head I've already killed you 3 times now!:overreact:

Playoffs
03-06-2014, 07:55 PM
I may sound calm now. But in my head I've already killed you 3 times now!:overreact:

Now, now, let's not forget about Hippocrates:
I will prescribe regimens for the good of my patients according to my ability and my judgment and never do harm to anyone. I will give no deadly medicine to any one if asked, nor suggest any such counsel...
Or better Geneva...
I will maintain the utmost respect for human life;

No killing for you, Doc. :fingergun:

ObsiWan
03-06-2014, 08:49 PM
Now, now, let's not forget about Hippocrates:

Or better Geneva...

No killing for you, Doc. :fingergun:
Neither one of those guys were Texans fans
I'd watch my back if i were you, Playoffs
:)

Playoffs
03-06-2014, 09:02 PM
...I'd watch my back if i were you, Playoffs
:)

http://www.greensmilies.com/smile/smiley_emoticons_scream-if-you-can.gif

Wolf6151
03-07-2014, 01:27 AM
Brandon Thomas (http://walterfootball.com/proday.php),

I liked him last year but he didn't declare eligibility. When I look at his measurables, he's got great numbers with the exception of height. I really like Thomas, so how important is height to the OT position? He could be the answer at LG or RT.

CloakNNNdagger
03-07-2014, 07:24 AM
I liked him last year but he didn't declare eligibility. When I look at his measurables, he's got great numbers with the exception of height. I really like Thomas, so how important is height to the OT position? He could be the answer at LG or RT.

Tackles need to be more athletically built than guards as they need to deal with speedy pass rushers and often have to play in space. Being taller helps to distribute their weight better, and generally, as "longer" athletes, better able to get their hands on pass rushers first. Tackles that are too tall (over 6'6") can become awkward, prone to waist bending or lunging at rushers. They are also more difficult for QBs to throw over or around. Arm length as a rule is proportional to height and longer arms are as a rule advantageous because they allow an offensive lineman to get his hands on an opponent first, generally allowing him to more easily gain control of his defensive opponent.

The thing about Thomas is his height/weight is more classic of an OG. BUT, his arms are unusually disproportionately long to his height which allows his reasonable consideration as an OT, especially RT.
The assessment of his athleticism, in the end, will likely lead to final determination of his position in the NFL.

Playoffs
03-07-2014, 09:19 AM
MMQB: Measuring Beyond Girth (http://mmqb.si.com/2014/03/06/nfl-offensive-linemen-grades/)
Offensive linemen are overlooked by everyone except the coaches who grade them each week—and those marks are the difference between lasting in the NFL and finding a new career. For wide bodies, there’s little room for error
All offensive linemen have stats, but they’re largely a matter of interpretation. Like pop quizzes taken in a classroom, the grades are often reflected in percentages, such as 82% or 93%. Although variations exist across all 32 teams, the gist is simple: a lineman gets a plus (+) for completing his assignment and a minus (-) when he fails. If a team runs 100 plays and a lineman gets 90 plusses his mark will be 90%—a solid game.

The cumulative score, for good or for worse, becomes a player’s identity.
...
Yet there’s a fine line between living in the penthouse or the outhouse. An All-Pro grades between 89-93% while an average player grades between 85-89%. Dip below 85% and you’re staring at a career change. Let that sink in: The difference between making $5-10 million a year and going back to your hometown comes down to just a few plays a game. Those fate-deciding plays could be significant or they could be inconsequential—that’s how unforgiving the sport is—or your future could be determined by your opponent. If you’re going up against J.J. Watt one week, you’ll likely grade lower than your teammates. Catch a string a stars and, well, people may soon be questioning your ability to play in the NFL...

TexansFTW
03-07-2014, 09:24 AM
And for those of you that may not have access to this information, be aware that the operating surgeon Dr. Lyle Cain studied under Dr. Andrews. In fact, he was Andrews personal Fellow prior to going into formal practice at............where else, but the Andrews Sports Medicine & Orthopaedic Center in Alabama, where to date he maintains his practice.:kitten:

Called it.

*pat myself on back gif*

CloakNNNdagger
03-07-2014, 09:27 AM
Called it.

*pat myself on back gif*

Yes you did!

thunderkyss
03-09-2014, 10:48 AM
How much would you guys pay for a competent starting RT? We were paying Eric Winston $5m/yr before we kicked him to the curb. Personally I didn't have a problem with that price tag, my issue was that we were getting a mistake prone, lead footed, too smart for his own good, brute who struggled against speed rushers for that price.

But I'd have no problem paying a RT $5M/yr, especially since our LT did us a solid & we're paying less than $10M/yr for a franchise LT.

Last year, Eric Fisher signed a 5 year fully guaranteed $22M (http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/9511364/eric-fisher-no-1-overall-pick-signs-kansas-city-chiefs) contract. That's only 4.42M/yr.

For that kind of money, I wouldn't have a problem starting Robinson on the right side for two or three years..... Robinson may not like it, but this is a business. If he still looks like a promising OT in the league, I'll trade him, maybe I'll get a late first for a ready to start LT.... the kind that never hits FA. Maybe I'll only get an early 2nd.

On the other hand, maybe something happens to Brown, maybe it's a knee, maybe it's a hip, maybe it's turf toe & he can't play at an elite level anymore.. remember we're talking about two or three years from now playing the most violent sport in the world against the best of the best. We can move him to the right side, we can extend his contract, we can even trade him to a team desperate for a LT... & move Robinson to the left side.

Think about it. 5 year fully guaranteed.... that's pay as you go. Very trade friendly contract.

infantrycak
03-09-2014, 11:10 AM
Well comparing rookie contracts is apples to oranges. As a market value non-rookie deal I agree up to $5 mil/yr is fine for a top 7 RT.

thunderkyss
03-09-2014, 11:17 AM
Well comparing rookie contracts is apples to oranges. As a market value non-rookie deal I agree up to $5 mil/yr is fine for a top 7 RT.

Kinda like taking advantage of outstanding QB play from guys on rookie contracts??

Like I said, it's a business. What used to cost $10M/yr is now available to us for half the cost. Apples & oranges, I don't really care as long as it protects my QB.

Texian
03-09-2014, 11:30 AM
Kinda like taking advantage of outstanding QB play from guys on rookie contracts??

Like I said, it's a business. What used to cost $10M/yr is now available to us for half the cost. Apples & oranges, I don't really care as long as it protects my QB.

Gosder Cherilus contract is an apple to apple RT comparison and a barometer agents will use in negotiation for RT's 2nd contract.

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/indianapolis-colts/gosder-cherilus/

infantrycak
03-09-2014, 11:30 AM
I didn't discount getting benefit of rookie contracts. Just saying that is not steady state. So a long term estimate of what is reasonable to pay at RT shouldn't be based on rookie contracts. If you get someone below normal because of a rookie contract, great.

TexansFTW
03-10-2014, 10:00 AM
Robinson may not like it, but this is a business. If he still looks like a promising OT in the league, I'll trade him, maybe I'll get a late first for a ready to start LT.... the kind that never hits FA. Maybe I'll only get an early 2nd.

We can move him to the right side, we can extend his contract, we can even trade him to a team desperate for a LT... & move Robinson to the left side.

Think about it. 5 year fully guaranteed.... that's pay as you go. Very trade friendly contract.

You mention trading quite a bit, but this is not a real viable option. Trading offensive tackles doesn't happen every day and when it does it's generally teams in complete disarray like the Jags.

Oh and what the Jags got when they traded Eugene Monroe... a 4th and a 5th round pick. He was a 1st round (#8 overall pick) just 4 years before that. He never misses games and is a very good LT, constantly grading out among the better tackles in PFF rankings. And the Ravens were desperate!

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/23954523/jaguars-trade-lt-eugene-monroe-to-ravens-fro-draft-picks

Wolf6151
03-12-2014, 06:20 PM
I have him going late 3rd round, despite the injury. Non-displaced fibula fracture is what I've read, which should have no lingering effects as long as it is allowed to heal properly. CND can step in if I'm wrong on that.

I think he's a guy that could be an above average RT/LG or an average LT. Fits a variety of offensive schemes, solid but unspectacular player. Good pass protector, good run blocker, good athleticism.


What's your opinion on Billy Turner-OT from North Dakota St.? From what I read he's got the size, good measurables, and good/decent Combine drill numbers. From what I read he's got good potential and minor flaws that are coachable, but it also concerns me that he's only faced small school competition.

If you were to wait til the 4th round for an OT who would you be targeting down there? I'm hoping to wait to fill OT in the 4th so that we can target a couple of defensive studs in the 2nd and 3rd. It does worry me though to wait that long for an OT, because I want someone good enough to protect our new QB. JaWaun James, James Hurst, Joel Bitonio, Cameron Fleming all come to mind.

bah007
03-12-2014, 09:23 PM
What's your opinion on Billy Turner-OT from North Dakota St.? From what I read he's got the size, good measurables, and good/decent Combine drill numbers. From what I read he's got good potential and minor flaws that are coachable, but it also concerns me that he's only faced small school competition.

If you were to wait til the 4th round for an OT who would you be targeting down there? I'm hoping to wait to fill OT in the 4th so that we can target a couple of defensive studs in the 2nd and 3rd. It does worry me though to wait that long for an OT, because I want someone good enough to protect our new QB. JaWaun James, James Hurst, Joel Bitonio, Cameron Fleming all come to mind.

I like Turner a lot. He needs development but he has big time potential. He's a very good athlete moving forward and to the side but he is uncoordinated and sloppy moving backward. Probably means he will be a RT only, but that's what we're looking for. He needs some technique work but that's to be expected. Competition is a worry but he played very well in their upset win over Kansas St, so he has good tape against a good opponent.

These are the OTs I'm looking at in regards to the Texans:
1 - Greg Robinson
2 - Morgan Moses, Antonio Richardson
3 - JuWaun James, Joel Bitonio, James Hurst
4 - Billy Turner
5 - Michael Schofield
6 - Matt Patchan
7 - Austin Wentworth

steelbtexan
03-13-2014, 09:47 AM
I like Turner a lot. He needs development but he has big time potential. He's a very good athlete moving forward and to the side but he is uncoordinated and sloppy moving backward. Probably means he will be a RT only, but that's what we're looking for. He needs some technique work but that's to be expected. Competition is a worry but he played very well in their upset win over Kansas St, so he has good tape against a good opponent.

These are the OTs I'm looking at in regards to the Texans:
1 - Greg Robinson
2 - Morgan Moses, Antonio Richardson
3 - JuWaun James, Joel Bitonio, James Hurst
4 - Billy Turner
5 - Michael Schofield
6 - Matt Patchan
7 - Austin Wentworth

I heard former Cowboys OL coach Wylie on Sirius the other day and he said Turner has as much ability as any OT in this draft. I don't necessarily agree with this because Robinson is one of the most athletic OT's I've seen since Munoz.

bah007
03-13-2014, 12:29 PM
I heard former Cowboys OL coach Wylie on Sirius the other day and he said Turner has as much ability as any OT in this draft. I don't necessarily agree with this because Robinson is one of the most athletic OT's I've seen since Munoz.

Yea I don't agree with that either. His potential is sky high but Robinson is in a different category.

I wouldn't be surprised to see a team take Turner as early as the 2nd round. He could definitely be a long term solution at RT for somebody.

Wolf6151
03-19-2014, 03:36 AM
@Bah007, what do you think of a guy like Travis Swanson-C from Arkansas if we were to take him in the middle rounds as a guy to be depth at OG and possibly our future C once Myers leaves which could be next year. Swanson has the size to play OG, very large for a C, and I'm not seeing alot from Ben Jones the past couple years.

bah007
03-19-2014, 12:20 PM
@Bah007, what do you think of a guy like Travis Swanson-C from Arkansas if we were to take him in the middle rounds as a guy to be depth at OG and possibly our future C once Myers leaves which could be next year. Swanson has the size to play OG, very large for a C, and I'm not seeing alot from Ben Jones the past couple years.

I've got Swanson as a late 3rd round grade. I think he's a pure center. Intelligent and capable. He's not enough of a mauler to play RG (despite his size he gets pushed around) and I don't think he is athletic enough to play LG (his hip, knee, and ankle flexibility appears to be very poor).

I think Jones makes a better LG and I also had him rated higher coming out of college.

With what you have in mind I would look at Marcus Martin at 3-1 or Russell Bodine at 4-1. Both are NFL starting C caliber, IMO. Martin can play either guard position while he waits to take over at C. Bodine would be solid depth behind Brooks at RG while he waits.

Playoffs
03-20-2014, 12:47 PM
Kyle Feldscher ‏@Kyle_Feldscher
Here's the story with more details on the charges and the incident. Again, Taylor Lewan facing 3 criminal charges http://bit.ly/ml-tlcg

Police confirmed the charges, but aren't talking about the investigation yet. More info will come out after arraignment in April.

@kmeinke @el_mealer Incident involving 2 OSU fans on South U on Dec. 1. Police mum on details b/c no arraignment yet.

According to court records, Lewan faces a charge of aggravated assault and two charges of assault and battery. Arraignment on 4/8.

BREAKING: Taylor Lewan will be arraigned on 3 charges stemming from a Dec. 1 assault in Ann Arbor. Story coming to @annarbornews

During interviews... at the National Football League Combine, Lewan said he was trying to break up the altercation.

“I wasn't in any fight of any kind,” he said at a press conference. “I was actually breaking something up and some guy said that I slugged him. But that’s not who I am off the field, that’s not the kind of person I am. I might seem that way because of the way I play football, but that’s not who I am as a person.”

The Pencil Neck
03-20-2014, 12:49 PM
oh.

And then there's that.

I guess we know who's going to fall because of character concerns this year.

thunderkyss
03-20-2014, 01:15 PM
oh.

And then there's that.

I guess we know who's going to fall because of character concerns this year.

I don't know. He mentioned it at the combine, so he's kinda in front of it. We'll have to see what the outcome of the trial is... or better yet, what the people who know him think.

The Pencil Neck
03-20-2014, 01:17 PM
I don't know. He mentioned it at the combine, so he's kinda in front of it. We'll have to see what the outcome of the trial is... or better yet, what the people who know him think.

The way he talked about it at the Combine didn't make it sound like he'd actually end up in court with a possibility of jail time. At least, it didn't to me at the time.

Playoffs
03-20-2014, 01:33 PM
The way he talked about it at the Combine didn't make it sound like he'd actually end up in court with a possibility of jail time. At least, it didn't to me at the time.

Definitely a disconnect there in how he presents vs. this and other backstories about him. Some teams just won't care.

bah007
03-20-2014, 02:05 PM
Fool me once shame on me, fool me twice...

This is the same guy who was accused of threating a girl who said that she was raped by Lewan's roommate. I believe he was also suspended for a dirty play last year too.

Looks like he's getting a lot of practice trying to explain away his behavior. PASS!

Wolf6151
03-24-2014, 10:23 AM
What do yall think of some of the late round O-line prospects like Ryan Groy, Spencer Long, Andrew Norwell, or Brandon Linder for interior O-line depth? Any of these guys have possible future starter potential?

bah007
03-24-2014, 10:34 AM
What do yall think of some of the late round O-line prospects like Ryan Groy, Spencer Long, Andrew Norwell, or Brandon Linder for interior O-line depth? Any of these guys have possible future starter potential?

I don't expect Groy or Norwell to stick in the league. Linder is JAG. I really like Long. If he can stay healthy he has the skills to be a NFL starter.

steelbtexan
03-24-2014, 10:36 AM
oh.

And then there's that.

I guess we know who's going to fall because of character concerns this year.

I like aggressive OL.

Old time Raiders style.

Mean and slightly deranged is a good attribute for a NFL OL.

steelbtexan
03-24-2014, 10:39 AM
Fool me once shame on me, fool me twice...

This is the same guy who was accused of threating a girl who said that she was raped by Lewan's roommate. I believe he was also suspended for a dirty play last year too.

Looks like he's getting a lot of practice trying to explain away his behavior. PASS!

What does any of this have to do with Lewan as a football player? If he falls in the draft some team is going to get a heck of a football player cheap.

steelbtexan
03-24-2014, 10:42 AM
I don't expect Groy or Norwell to stick in the league. Linder is JAG. I really like Long. If he can stay healthy he has the skills to be a NFL starter.

^^^^
This

Except I expect Groy/Linder to be Steve Schilling type players. Guys that hang around a few yrs as fringe backup type OL.

bah007
03-24-2014, 10:55 AM
What does any of this have to do with Lewan as a football player? If he falls in the draft some team is going to get a heck of a football player cheap.

You seem to have developed an obsession with players that have behavioral problems. Lewan is a really good football player, but he has a pattern of behavior that, quite frankly, reminds me of Richie Incognito.

The guy is a head case, a fake tough guy, and considered by most Michigan fans to be the worst team captain in school history.

Right now, his off field troubles are only a distraction. If he keeps it up it could become a problem. A pattern is developing. I don't want to deal with that. I'll pass and let someone else have him, for better or worse.

steelbtexan
03-24-2014, 11:02 AM
You seem to have developed an obsession with players that have behavioral problems. Lewan is a really good football player, but he has a pattern of behavior that, quite frankly, reminds me of Richie Incognito.

The guy is a head case, a fake tough guy, and considered by most Michigan fans to be the worst team captain in school history.

Right now, his off field troubles are only a distraction. If he keeps it up it could become a problem. I don't want to deal with that. I'll pass and let someone else have him, for better or worse.

I just want the most talented players on my team (if I owned a team and was truly committed to winning) Let the coaches deal with the problem children?

You never did answer which team had the most suspensions last yr? Until the Texans org stop playing checkers when the best teams are playing chess you can only expect marginal improvements. (Some playoff teams/followed in the cycle by 2-14 teams.)

We both want the same things, I just look and see how the successful teams have built their teams and don't see the Texans following that model at all. We just have a difference in opinion on how teams should be built. (Differences are good,

I've said the same thing since 2006 and was told by Texan Bill that the team would never be built the way I wanted it to be built. I countered with well they will never have a winning org. I'm still waiting to be proven wrong.

bah007
03-24-2014, 11:11 AM
I just want the most talented players on my team (if I owned a team and was truly committed to winning) Let the coaches deal with the problem children?

You never did answer which team had the most suspensions last yr? Until the Texans org stop playing checkers when the best teams are playing chess you can only expect marginal improvements. (Some playoff teams/followed in the cycle by 2-14 teams.)

No I didn't answer it. Because I'm not going to do research for your argument. If you have a point you can do your own research and provide it as evidence to back up your assertion. There is nothing out there that can prove that having more law breakers provides more wins.

We all want the most talented players. But pure talent isn't the only thing that matters. This has been shown time and time again. There are other factors. And it's going to be hard to help the team if you are being suspended or cut due to behavioral problems. NFL coaches aren't babysitters. If Lewan truly wants to have a successful pro career he can get his own head out of his own ass.

And if Lewan was the worst team captain in Michigan's history then it becomes an on field issue. How you associate with your teammates is a big deal, on the field and in the locker room. And this loser had to room with the punter because nobody else on the team wanted to be his roommate.

infantrycak
03-24-2014, 12:15 PM
No I didn't answer it. Because I'm not going to do research for your argument. If you have a point you can do your own research and provide it as evidence to back up your assertion. There is nothing out there that can prove that having more law breakers provides more wins.

Pretty sure he was thinking Seahawks but that is incorrect. Three teams were tied for most suspensions in 2013 - Jags, Rams, Redskins. The Seahawks had 2 players suspended and they just let one of those, Browner, walk as a FA.

ObsiWan
03-24-2014, 06:20 PM
I like aggressive OL.

Old time Raiders style.

Mean and slightly deranged is a good attribute for a NFL OL.
Sooo in the past eight years (Rick Smith era) how many times has "old time Raider's style" taken the Raiders to the playoffs.

We've been twice.

steelbtexan
03-24-2014, 06:35 PM
Sooo in the past eight years (Rick Smith era) how many times has "old time Raider's style" taken the Raiders to the playoffs.

We've been twice.

That's why I said old time.

Stabler/Matuzak/Alzado/Plunkett etc.... These guys were in trouble all of the time but came to play on Sundays. 80's Cowgirls?

People don't want to admit that some not so good people play NFL football and win a lot doing it.

For instance Marshawn Lynch was a leader on the Seahawks a SB winner. He could've been a Texan for a 4th rd pick. Do I want him to date my daughter (If I had 1) he** no. But would I love to see him carry the ball for the Texans next yr? You bet,

kiwitexansfan
03-24-2014, 07:30 PM
Leaning towards Robinson in the first, Yankey in the second, QB in the 3rd, then worry about defense with the other picks.

thunderkyss
03-24-2014, 09:06 PM
Leaning towards Robinson in the first, Yankey in the second, QB in the 3rd, then worry about defense with the other picks.

I can get behind that.

Playoffs
04-03-2014, 02:21 PM
Chris Mortensen ‏@mortreport
Miami OT Seantrel Henderson didn't help himself today - "quit" his Pro Day workout halfway through it. No explanation yet. Disappointing.

CloakNNNdagger
04-03-2014, 02:39 PM
Chris Mortensen ‏@mortreport

With his history of multiple weed suspensions, he seems to have no problem with screwing himself and his teammates.......all of this along with back surgery that has not really been publicized........makes this move just another nail in his draft position.

Playoffs
04-07-2014, 02:02 PM
Scott Wright ‏@DraftCountdown
Clemson OL Brandon Thomas suffered a torn ACL last week per @CaplanNFL. I thought he had a chance of sneaking into the back end of Round 1.

Total bummer. Was one I thought we'd take a look at.

mussop
04-07-2014, 02:06 PM
Scott Wright ‏@DraftCountdown


Total bummer. Was one I thought we'd take a look at.

I'm sure he was on our radar. Very versitile player. Maybe he will far far enough to where we can steal him. I'd take a flyer for a year on his talent in the 4th.

mussop
04-07-2014, 02:08 PM
With his history of multiple weed suspensions, he seems to have no problem with screwing himself and his teammates.......all of this along with back surgery that has not really been publicized........makes this move just another nail in his draft position.

I seriously doubt he has a position now. As deep as this draft is I wouldn't spend anything lower than the very last pick on him.

Wolf6151
04-07-2014, 03:03 PM
I'm sure he was on our radar. Very versitile player. Maybe he will far far enough to where we can steal him. I'd take a flyer for a year on his talent in the 4th.

This really sucks, I like'd this guy alot, very versatile O-lineman. He'll have to sit out this next season and I think the 4th is still to early, maybe grab him with one of our 6th round picks and stash him on IR for a year.

mussop
04-07-2014, 05:41 PM
This really sucks, I like'd this guy alot, very versatile O-lineman. He'll have to sit out this next season and I think the 4th is still to early, maybe grab him with one of our 6th round picks and stash him on IR for a year.

unless we were going to take him with our second pick I doubt we had a chance to get him. This might be a blessing for us anyway. You are right about the 4th being to high. there is just to much talent in this draft. I would consider a 5th but would defiantly take him with a 6th.

steelbtexan
04-07-2014, 07:16 PM
Scott Wright ‏@DraftCountdown


Total bummer. Was one I thought we'd take a look at.

Yep

I wanted Rick to trade back into the 2nd rd and pick Thomas.

Because you only get 3 yrs on his rookie deal he's a 5/6th rder. IMHO Although I do believe Thomas has all pro potential as a LG.

Wolf6151
04-08-2014, 01:20 AM
Which OT's do you think can also play OG? And could you see the Texans taking someone like JaWaun James to compete at RT in the 3rd, and then take someone like Cameron Fleming with our comp. pick in the 4th that could possibly add depth/competition at OT and OG? I'm thinking that if we don't sign a FA O-lineman to add competition and depth then we'll double dip on the O-line in the draft and will look for guys that can play both positions.

Playoffs
04-13-2014, 11:02 AM
Greg Robinson interview at his Jaguars team visit:

http://www.jaguars.com/media-gallery/videos/Greg-Robinson-Visits-Jacksonville/8f6648c4-ac5d-459e-b1c2-cb1364897163

Playoffs
04-14-2014, 11:41 AM
Scott Wright ‏@DraftCountdown

Total bummer. Was one I thought we'd take a look at.

The injury suffered by Clemson offensive tackle Brandon Thomas during a noncontact drill in a personal workout for the Saints will have the league and the agents re-considering this move to more individual workouts. Why risk it when there is so much tape to watch on a player and there's combine and pro-day workouts? If I were an agent, I would say my client is resting on his pro-day workout. It's just not worth the risk. Thomas was considered a potential late first-round pick and now will likely not go until the fourth round. That's just stupidity. What's the reason? To see how he does in the short shuttle again?
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/writer/pete-prisco/24526320/monday-musings-lining-up-clowney-centers-wonderlic-garrapolo

kiwitexansfan
04-15-2014, 04:27 PM
I have a somewhat overly complicated means of evaluating draft needs for the Texans. I was updating it with the Ricardo Mathews signing and as I was looking at the adjusted need ratings I was struck by the fact that of the top 11 needs I can see in the draft about 8 of them are trench related.

As such I don't think I would complain if we just pumped the majority of our picks into those areas.

We are terribly thin on both lines right now unless Q and Williams come back at 100%.

kiwitexansfan
04-15-2014, 04:51 PM
Something like this would be interesting.

Round 1 Pick 1: Greg Robinson, OT, Auburn (A)
Round 2 Pick 1: Xavier Su'a-Filo, OG, UCLA (A-)
Round 3 Pick 1: Dee Ford, DE, Auburn (A)
Round 4 Pick 1: Daniel McCullers, DT, Tennessee (A-)
Round 4 Pick 35 (COMP): Aaron Murray, QB, Georgia (A)
Round 5 Pick 1: Brent Urban, DE, Virginia (C-)
Round 6 Pick 1: Ryan Carrethers, DT, Arkansas State (C)
Round 6 Pick 5: Dri Archer, WR, Kent State (B+)
Round 6 Pick 35 (COMP): Storm Johnson, RB, UCF (A)
Round 7 Pick 1: Ross Cockrell, CB, Duke (A)
Round 7 Pick 41 (COMP): Andrew Jackson, ILB, Western Kentucky (B-)

drs23
04-15-2014, 05:24 PM
I have a somewhat overly complicated means of evaluating draft needs for the Texans. I was updating it with the Ricardo Mathews signing and as I was looking at the adjusted need ratings I was struck by the fact that of the top 11 needs I can see in the draft about 8 of them are trench related.

As such I don't think I would complain if we just pumped the majority of our picks into those areas.

We are terribly thin on both lines right now unless Q and Williams come back at 100%.

steelb says: :heart:

And while I do not disagree in the least we need depth virtually everywhere. I think picks 2-1 & 3-1 will be parlayed into way more than 11 picks which would absolutely go a long way to getting us to where we need to be since this draft is so deep and the player pool really doesn't separate that much after the top 20ish or so.

But then again, what do I know? Sure wish I was tight with that janitor that knows everything Texans. :D

steelbtexan
04-15-2014, 05:50 PM
steelb says: :heart:

And while I do not disagree in the least we need depth virtually everywhere. I think picks 2-1 & 3-1 will be parlayed into way more than 11 picks which would absolutely go a long way to getting us to where we need to be since this draft is so deep and the player pool really doesn't separate that much after the top 20ish or so.

But then again, what do I know? Sure wish I was tight with that janitor that knows everything Texans. :D

I just hope they don't sacrifice quality for depth purposes. For instance if they take Garappolo/Savage at 33 and Nix/Moses/Mosley are there in the 35-40 range I hope the Smith trades up to get one of them.

Or trades down from 33 to 35- 40/ picks one of them, then uses the extra picks to move back up and pick the QB. Using 3-1/4-1 which one of Nix/Moses/Mosley would be well worth. IMHO.

Playoffs
04-16-2014, 01:59 PM
Small School, Big Dreams - DRIVEN Ep. 1 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mDLFElGFtGc)

Video draft diary from OT Billy Turner who is no longer a sneaky late rounder. Good stuff so far.

Playoffs
04-19-2014, 07:13 PM
It's lying season and all and much of this feels like same, but this nugget bears investigating...
Although new Dolphins offensive coordinator Bill Lazor (http://blogs.palmbeachpost.com/thedailydolphin/2014/04/18/source-dolphins-like-kouandjio-in-first-round-plan-to-move-misi-to-inside-linebacker/) was offensive coordinator at Virginia from 2010 to 2012, the Dolphins are not as high on [OT Morgan] Moses with concerns over his work ethic and off-the-field issues, the source said.

Playoffs
04-25-2014, 10:15 PM
Man I really like Bitonio: http://www.nbcsports.com/football/nfl/road-draft-joel-bitonio

Playoffs
04-28-2014, 12:31 PM
Tony Pauline ‏@TonyPauline
I'm told the target return date for Brandon Thomas/OL/Clemson for football activity is October 1st...

That was one expensive workout.

Playoffs
04-30-2014, 03:26 PM
Adam Caplan ‏@caplannfl
On Wonderlic scores, former #Eagles OL Matt Patchan's son, Matt (OT/Boston College), had a 42.

Stanford LT/RT Cameron Fleming, who had 1 of the highest Wonderlic scores for any OL (33), is projected go off the board in rounds 2-4

Albert Breer ‏@AlbertBreer
NFL Folks I talk to think ND OL Zack Martin can play all five positions. Huge for teams to have that flexibility.

Playoffs
05-05-2014, 08:36 AM
Adam Schefter @AdamSchefter
NFL teams notified last week that Miami OT Seantrel Henderson tested positive at combine for smoking marijuana, per league sources.

Couldn't wait a week. :mariopalm:

Wolf6151
05-05-2014, 04:00 PM
Regarding Seantrel Henderson, I have to question if this guy really wants to play in the NFL. IIRC, he didn't show up for Pro Day, has been labeled as very skilled but also very unmotivated, and now testing positive for weed might make him an UDFA. Just SMH.

Playoffs
05-06-2014, 12:29 PM
Scott Kacsmar ‏@FO_ScottKacsmar
from STATS: Jake Matthews had 200 more pass protection snaps than Greg Robinson last season.