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Playoffs
02-17-2014, 03:15 PM
Mike Mayock's position rankings for 2014 NFL Draft (http://www.nfl.com/combine/story/0ap2000000326222/article/precombine-position-rankings-for-2014-nfl-draft)

Quarterback
1. Teddy Bridgewater, Louisville
2. Johnny Manziel, Texas A&M
3. Blake Bortles, Central Florida
4. Derek Carr, Fresno State
5. AJ McCarron, Alabama

Running back
1. Carlos Hyde, Ohio State
2. Jeremy Hill, LSU
3. Bishop Sankey, Washington
4. Andre Williams, Boston College
5. Tre Mason, Auburn

Wide receiver
1. Sammy Watkins, Clemson
2. Marqise Lee, USC
3. Mike Evans, Texas A&M
4. Kelvin Benjamin, Florida State
5. Jarvis Landry, LSU

Tight end
1. Eric Ebron, North Carolina
2. Austin Seferian-Jenkins, Washington
3. Jace Amaro, Texas Tech
4. Troy Niklas, Notre Dame
5. C.J. Fiedorowicz, Iowa

Center
1. Marcus Martin, USC
2. Weston Richburg, Colorado State
3. Travis Swanson, Arkansas
4. Bryan Stork, Florida State
5. Gabe Ikard, Oklahoma

Guard
1. David Yankey, Stanford
2. Xavier Su'a-Filo, UCLA
3. Gabe Jackson, Mississippi State
4. Chris Watt, Notre Dame
5. Cyril Richardson, Baylor

Offensive tackle
1. Jake Matthews, Texas A&M
2. Greg Robinson, Auburn
3. Taylor Lewan, Michigan
4. Zack Martin, Notre Dame
5. Cyrus Kouandjio, Alabama

*********************************

Defensive tackle
1. Louis Nix, Notre Dame
2. Timmy Jernigan, Florida State
3. Aaron Donald, Pittsburgh
4. Ra'Shede Hageman, Minnesota
5. Dominique Easley, Florida

Defensive end
1. Jadeveon Clowney, South Carolina
2. Kony Ealy, Missouri
3. Dee Ford, Auburn
4. Scott Crichton, Oregon State
5. Trent Murphy, Stanford

Linebacker
1. Khalil Mack, Buffalo
2. C.J. Mosley, Alabama
3. Anthony Barr, UCLA
4. Chris Borland, Wisconsin
5. Ryan Shazier, Ohio State

Cornerback
1. Darqueze Dennard, Michigan State
2. Justin Gilbert, Oklahoma State
3. Kyle Fuller, Virginia Tech
4. Jason Verrett, TCU
5. Bradley Roby, Ohio State

Safety
1. Calvin Pryor, Louisville
2. Ha Ha Clinton-Dix, Alabama
3. Lamarcus Joyner, Florida State
4. Jimmie Ward, Northern Illinois
5. Deone Bucannon, Washington State

TexansFTW
02-17-2014, 04:04 PM
I don't like Lee nearly as much as I like the other WRs. I just don't see it and I hate his height.

Does anyone have an idea about his speed? I've seen him burn past defenders and I've seen him get totally caught from behind. Really interested to see his 40 time, but I still will like him least of those 4 probably (still ahead of Landry).

It's crazy to me how Calvin Pryor has burned his way up these boards and frankly I don't like it. People knew who Pryor was all season because most eyes were on TB (therefore on him by proxy (I think I used that word right)), but somehow he doesn't move up the ranks until AFTER the season ends (nearly 30-45 positions on most big boards).

Not comfortable with that, but I definitely like the player, just not as the first safety.

Texian
02-17-2014, 04:54 PM
If Mayock stays true to form most every category will change to include rankings, adds, and drops after the completion of the Combine. Additional changes will follow the Combine as the progression of Pro Days goes through completion.

Playoffs
02-18-2014, 02:46 PM
tweets read bottom(oldest)-to-top

CollegeFootball 24/7 ‏@NFL_CFB
Mayock: I root for @NIUAthletics' Jordan Lynch. I like his attitude. Hope he gets shot at QB.

Mayock: Jimmy Garappolo helped himself at @Shrine_Game + @seniorbowl. Went from mid-to-late round question mark to 2nd or 3rd rounder.

Mayock: If Carlos Hyde goes in 1st round, won't surprise me. With RB position being devalued, he probably goes in 2nd.

Mayock: Dominique Easley went from top-25 pick to 3rd- or 4th-round pick after 2nd ACL injury.

Mayock: Cyrus Kouandjio up and down last season. Had bad Sugar Bowl. ... Meetings w/ teams at combine will be important for him.

Mayock: Derek Carr not a Pro Bowl-type starter in @NFL, but he'll be a competent starter.

Mayock: Colt Lyerla a 1st- or 2nd-round talent. Would guess, because of character concerns, he'll get picked on 3rd day of draft.

Mayock: @WinTheDay's De'Anthony Thomas a wild card. Probably goes somewhere in 4th-round area.

Mayock: If I'm GM of #Texans, I'm trying to get comfortable with one of these QBs. I'm intrigued by Manziel.

Mayock: Bridgewater and Bortles could both be good QBs, but not ready to say either will be All-Pro QB.

Mayock: The more tape I watch of Bridgewater, Manziel and Bortles, the more questions I have. I could pick apart all 3 of them.

Mayock: Wide range of opinions on @NDFootball's Louis Nix + Stephon Tuitt. They've become lightning rods around the league.

Mayock: If @HoustonTexans pair Clowney w/ Watt, would be awesome + mirror what @Seahawks have done in loading up on pass rushers.

Mayock: Seantrel Henderson one of biggest boom-or-bust guys in draft. ... Probably a 4th-round pick this year.

Mayock: One of my favorite players in draft is LSU's Jarvis Landry. Reminds me a little bit of Hines Ward.

Mayock: @ClemsonTigers' Sammy Watkins is special player. Usually don't get excited about drafting a WR in top 10. He's different.

Mayock: In a perfect world, you'd have fewer underclassmen entering draft, but it has helped 1st-round talent pool.

Mayock: Without injury, still don't think Zach Mettenberger is 1st- or 2nd-rounder. Not a guy who can start from Day One.

Mayock: @ChicagoBears should sprint to podium if Jernigan available at No. 14.

Mayock: Timmy Jernigan can step in and be special early.

Mayock: Bridgewater, Manziel, Bortles locked in as draft's top 3 QBs.

Mayock: @FSAthletics' Derek Carr fits into the end of the 1st round.

Mayock: @MSU_Football's Darqueze Dennard a top-15 pick. My favorite CB in draft.

Mayock: If Taylor Lewan falls to @Giants at No. 12, I'd be all over him.

Mayock: @NDFootball's Troy Niklas could be best blocking TE in @nfl in a few years. Likely a 2nd-round pick.

Mayock: Bridgewater not as much of a wild card as Manziel and more developed in reads than Bortles.

Mayock: Won't be surprised if @nyjets pick more than 1 WR this year.

Mayock: My concern with Clowney is his mental makeup. ... Will he be happy to just be a millionaire?

Mayock: Clowney has physical makeup to be best player in draft. Better player w/ more upside than Mario Williams had as prospect.

Mayock: Michael Sam a tweener. Should go between third- to fifth-round.

Mayock: Jace Amaro, Ra'Shede Hageman could be available/make sense for @Patriots in 1st round.

Mayock: Teddy Bridgewater is most NFL-ready QB in the draft.

Mayock: Mike Evans and Marqise Lee should be picked in 10-20 range.

Mayock: Calvin Pryor like a bigger, stronger Bob Sanders.

Mayock: @BadgerFootball's Chris Borland could be the Kiko Alonso of this year's draft.

Mayock: 14th overall pick not too early to pick Kony Ealy.

Mayock: Kony Ealy not quite as athletic as Aldon Smith, but probably more physical.

Mayock: @FootballAU's Greg Robinson has most upside of any OL in draft.

Mayock: @AggieFootball's Jake Matthews safest pick in the draft.

Mayock: Eric Ebron is a top-10 pick to me.

Mayock mentions Bishop Sankey, Marqise Lee and Colt Lyerla among players he's most interested to see at combine.

Mayock: I believe in Manziel. Team will have to live with negative plays, though.

Mayock on Manziel: He doesn't like being confined. The more he was in the pocket, the more frustrated he got.

Mayock: Manziel looks like combination of Doug Flutie and Fran Tarkenton.

Mayock: Lamarcus Joyner compares to Tyrann Mathieu. Similar explosiveness, fit in NFL.

Mayock: My favorite nickel corner in draft is Jason Verrett. Only reason he's not top-20 pick is size.

Mayock: I think offensive tackle is deep. Could go 3-4 rounds deep and get a starting OT.

Mayock: Khalil Mack runs like a safety. Explodes off the edge. One of elite edge guys in draft. I've yet to find a hole in his game.

Mayock: I think Kyle Fuller is a first-round talent + a first-round lock with sub-4.5 40.

Mayock: I think Khalil Mack is a top-five pick.

Mayock on conference call: This is deepest and best draft class I've seen in 10 years.

Mike Mayock getting set to talk with reporters on conference call about 2014 #NFLDraft. We'll live tweet the best of ...


Brian T. Smith ‏@ChronBrianSmith
NFL Network's Mayock said Manziel's local factor shouldn't be an issue when #Texans make No. 1 pick. Ownership also shouldn't be involved.

#NFL Network's Mike Mayock said if #Texans aren't in love with a top-three QB, picking another position or trading down makes most sense.

NFL Network's Mike Mayock said Blake Bortles is the most undeveloped among top-three QB selections. #NFL #Texans

Nothing Mayock said made Manziel sound like the clear consensus No. 1 pick or worthy of being taken first overall by #Texans. #NFL

Like other analysts, Mayock made it clear Manziel has a lot to work on in the pocket. Biggest #NFL liability at this point.

Still, Mayock said he believes in Manziel. Likely a top-10 pick. Maybe top five. #NFL

Other viewings showed Manziel frustrated and clearly inefficient in the pocket. "NFL teams are going to clue into that very quickly."


Others
Mayock says Clowney is a better prospect than Mario Williams was when Williams went No. 1 overall in 2005.

Mayock on other qb possibilities:... A.J. McCarron 2nd or 3rd.

Mayock thinks Notre Dame LT Zack Martin, with 52 career starts, can play anywhere on offensive line, impressed at LT, LG at Senior Bowl

Mayock on Allen Robinson: "solid 2nd round, good strength and size... I want to see more burst and ability to separate"

Mayock suggests pairing Clowney with J.J. Watt "would be pretty awesome." I agree, personally. Why has this not been more widely discussed?

Mike Mayock on 2014 quarterback class "None of these guys are Andrew Luck. None of these guys are Peyton Manning, a slam dunk, an easy one."

NFL Network's Mike Mayock said if #Texans trade down from No. 1, they may be willing to move down farther than usual b/c of quality of draft

Mayock on Nevin Lawson: A quick-footed kid. Kind of a natural nickel. I want to see how fast he really is like all the corners. #USU #NFL

Mayock on Tyler Larsen: He's a tough, smart kid. Want to see him move in some of the offensive line drills. Don't care about 40. #USU #NFL

“I really like the tailback from Washington, Sankey,” Mayock said. “I want to see him catch the football (more). … I think he can be a lot like the kid out of North Carolina at Cincinnati, Giovani Bernard.”

If Sankey is able to prove himself a reliable receiver out of the backfield, Mayock projects Sankey as a second-round pick in May’s draft.

“He’s a great combination of make-you-miss and north-south runner. … I really like his upside,” Mayock said.

Austin Seferian-Jenkins. “Oh … my … goodness does he have a great throwing radius,” Mayock said. “But is going to run in the 4.7 range or not?”

Mayock has Seferian-Jenkins as his second-ranked tight end (behind North Carolina’s Eric Ebron) and a first-round pick. ASJ, he said, could be a fit for the New England Patriots with the 29th overall pick — though he thinks Texas Tech tight end Jace Amaro is a better fit there — and added that ASJ “would make some sense to me” for the Baltimore Ravens with the 16th overall pick.

“Seferian-Jenkins could play in any scheme,” Mayock said. “You can line him up inline. He should be a better blocker than he is given his size. He’s athletic enough to block and tough enough to block, (but) at Washington they split him out so often I don’t think he developed as much as a blocker.”

Mayock sees Oregon state DE Scott Crichton, a Tacoma native, as a good fit for Denver with the 31st pick. Mayock called Crichton a “poor man’s Chris Long.”

Mayock's says his 2nd tier safeties are Jimmie Ward (N. Ill), Deone Bucannon (Wash St), Terrence Brooks (FSU), & Ed Reynolds (Stanford)

Mike Mayock just called @NIUAthletics Jimmie Ward one of his favorite safeties in the draft." @BlenBeans

Mike Mayock thinks North Dakota State offensive lineman Billy Turner is a fourth-round pick.

The NFL Network's Mike Mayock is skeptical that former #NotreDame DT Louis Nix can be relied upon for enough snaps.

Mayock thinks MSU CB Darqueze Dennard and Oklahoma State CB Justin Gilbert can step in on Day 1.

Mayock said the only reason Oregon State's Brandin Cooks isn't in his top 5 is because of the depth of this year's WR class.

Mayock on #UVa prospects: Urban can go in third round; Moses is a starting right tackle in the NFL, hasn't ruled out his first round chances

Mayock: Khalil Mack runs like a safety. Explodes off the edge. One of elite edge guys in draft. I've yet to find a hole in his game.””

Mayock: Versatile 4-3/3-4 edge rushers include Auburn's Dee Ford, Stanford's Trent Murphy and Louisville's Marcus Smith. #Bears

NFL Network Draft analyst Mike Mayock has former #Wyoming WR Robert Herron and DB Marqueston Huff as 4th to 5th round picks

Mike Mayock projects C.J. Fiedorowicz as a 4th-rounder right now, wants to see what he runs at the Combine and if he can catch everything.

Mike Mayock says he believes Devonta Freeman will go in the third round. Says he believes James Wilder Jr. will go in 4th or 5th round.

Mayock on EIU QB Garoppolo: Could go as high as 2nd or 3rd round and could develop into NFL starter.

Mayock said the Michigan State LB Max Bullough's suspension hurt a little bit, but "the tape wasn't real good this year."

Jack Mewhort from Ohio State, second- or third-round starting tackle."

Mike Mayock says he believes Christian Jones did improve his draft stock by staying for his senior season and showing he can rush off edge.

During his nearly 3-hour teleconference, NFL Network's Mike Mayock said Wolf Pack OL Joel Bitonio is a 2nd-round pick. Becoming a consensus.

Blake
02-18-2014, 03:02 PM
Good stuff. I cant believe how high Ebron is rising.

beerlover
02-18-2014, 04:10 PM
Guess it shows how hard work & being in the right place, right time can lead to a full time profession in this business. I think several posters here have equal or similar capacity for making those statements. I always try to encourage those who I associate with here to make a run at this, those who have a natural eye for talent & player evaluation, like rmartin65, wolverinefan & many other but too often life gets in the way.

Playoffs
02-18-2014, 04:15 PM
Jeff McLane ‏@Jeff_McLane
Mayock, showing high motor after 2 hrs of questions, says let's keep pushing despite 30 more ques & moderator's attempt to cut call short.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-network-total-access/0ap2000000164901/Must-see-Mike-Mayock-dances-like-a-loon

Mayock also says 70-80 percent of his evaluations are based on his own work with tape. He then bounces ideas of people he trusts.

Mike Mayock's conference call clocked in at 2 hours, 42 minutes.

Only "fumble" Mayock had was re: Texans...
#NFL Network's Mike Mayock said if #Texans aren't in love with a top-three QB, picking another position or trading down makes most sense.That about covers it...:spit:

I'm gassed, my clicker hand hurts and may have a lisfranc injury in my mid-palm and a high finger sprain.

http://i1108.photobucket.com/albums/h415/Stoltzpus/Decorated%20images/Smilies%20and%20GIFs/mf-2-sleep-smiley-face_zps45c94c59.gif

kiwitexansfan
02-18-2014, 04:36 PM
Pryor could be the biggest bust in this years draft, my alarm bells are ringing.

Playoffs
02-21-2014, 07:49 PM
Mayock: Khalil Mack would be my No. 1 overall pick (http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000327619/article/mayock-khalil-mack-would-be-my-no-1-overall-pick)
"He's explosive off the edge, he's tough, he's twitchy, he's got a little edge about him," Mayock said of Mack.

Buffalo opened the season with a loss to Ohio State, but Mayock said that when he watched tape of that game, "[Mack] dominated Ohio State like nobody I've ever seen dominate them."

Mayock also said that Mack is "really a good kid off the field" as well.

"You talk about a kid like [Jadeveon] Clowney, who's just got superhuman abilities, versus this kid, and if I had a choice between the two, I think I'm taking Mack," Mayock said.

Mayock said Mack is a prototype outside linebacker in a 3-4, but that he also would fit as a "Sam" linebacker in a 4-3, and would really shine in pass-rush situations...

bah007
02-21-2014, 08:52 PM
Despite this stance being unpopular around here, Mack is my #2 choice after Bridgewater.

beerlover
02-21-2014, 09:29 PM
Despite this stance being unpopular around here, Mack is my #2 choice after Bridgewater.

unpopular is a little bit of an exaggeration. Top tier prospect. three down LB. can play outside or in. elite movement skills, just has not exactly played against SEC competition. Merciuls is a similar talent. Taken much later, don't get me wrong superior speed, change of direction but lacks strength to set the edge, choose your poison or scheme. That being said, I think both fit better in a 4-3 :kitten:

Ole Miss Texan
02-21-2014, 09:31 PM
Interesting commentary by Mayock. I've been thinking about what people have been saying about value at QB - drafting value at 2:1 vs 1:1 and thinking that applies just as much if not more to Clowney in my mind. IF we have the opportunity to trade down with say Cleveland (bc that's the popular hypothetical trade partner)... I think a guy like Mack + the extra draft picks we'd receive is MUCH safer and better value than Clowney at 1:1

If OB isn't enfatuated with a top 3 QB then I hope we trade down. Like they've been saying this is one of the deepest drafts in a long time.

kiwitexansfan
02-21-2014, 09:47 PM
Mack is my favourite non-QB prosect, narrowly edging Robinson and Clowney.

bah007
02-21-2014, 09:54 PM
unpopular is a little bit of an exaggeration. Top tier prospect. three down LB. can play outside or in. elite movement skills, just has not exactly played against SEC competition. Merciuls is a similar talent. Taken much later, don't get me wrong superior speed, change of direction but lacks strength to set the edge, choose your poison or scheme. That being said, I think both fit better in a 4-3 :kitten:

Maybe not unpopular but it certainly wasn't popular when I floated the idea a few weeks ago. A lot of people here would freak out if we took an OLB with the #1 pick. Before the rookie wage scale it made sense to only take a premier position at the top of the draft. With the new rules you can afford to take a better player at a less important position and not have to worry as much about the financial implications.

I see Mercilus as a fit only as a WDE in a 43. I think Mack is the superior player and he is scheme diverse.

beerlover
02-21-2014, 09:56 PM
Interesting commentary by Mayock. I've been thinking about what people have been saying about value at QB - drafting value at 2:1 vs 1:1 and thinking that applies just as much if not more to Clowney in my mind. IF we have the opportunity to trade down with say Cleveland (bc that's the popular hypothetical trade partner)... I think a guy like Mack + the extra draft picks we'd receive is MUCH safer and better value than Clowney at 1:1

If OB isn't enfatuated with a top 3 QB then I hope we trade down. Like they've been saying this is one of the deepest drafts in a long time.

we all hope don't we?

every year, every time. feel like a used tool listening to an organism growing limbs trying to sell parts. Greg Robinson is my top prospect plain & simple. low floor with high ceiling @ position of need that could escalate into premier position (LT) & clearly build team inside out with talent. But that's just beer talking :wesmantexanfan:

thunderkyss
02-21-2014, 09:58 PM
Interesting that Stephon Truit doesn't start off in his top 5.

tweets read bottom(oldest)-to-top
Mayock: If I'm GM of #Texans, I'm trying to get comfortable with one of these QBs. I'm intrigued by Manziel.

Mayock: Bridgewater and Bortles could both be good QBs, but not ready to say either will be All-Pro QB.

Mayock: The more tape I watch of Bridgewater, Manziel and Bortles, the more questions I have. I could pick apart all 3 of them.


Others


Nothing against Bridgewater & though Manziel is intriguing........ Blake Bortles has been growing on me.

AngryNateFTW
02-21-2014, 10:30 PM
So Mayock said that Manziel is a mix between Flutie and Tarkenton, while Clowney is better than Mario coming out..

Hmm..

Decisions, decisions. :D

ObsiWan
02-21-2014, 11:12 PM
So Mayock said that Manziel is a mix between Flutie and Tarkenton, while Clowney is better than Mario coming out..

Hmm..

Decisions, decisions. :D

Matthews or Robinson; flip a coin
:texflag:

mussop
02-22-2014, 12:44 PM
Maybe not unpopular but it certainly wasn't popular when I floated the idea a few weeks ago. A lot of people here would freak out if we took an OLB with the #1 pick. Before the rookie wage scale it made sense to only take a premier position at the top of the draft. With the new rules you can afford to take a better player at a less important position and not have to worry as much about the financial implications.

I see Mercilus as a fit only as a WDE in a 43. I think Mack is the superior player and he is scheme diverse.

This board freaks out over everything. If you don't put their "guy" on a pedestal you will get crucified. No matter who you mention as the first pick you get crucified. Most everyone here has picked their fav and have drawn a line in the sand. It's their fav or else. Absolutely silly.

At every pick of every round you should have a list of guys worthy of said pick. Because of need people want to exclude everything but QB with pick 1.1. I understand QB is the most important position on the field. ThAt doesn't mean you blindly use the best asset you have to fill the position. It doesn't mean use your best asset to put a player there that isn't talented enough to warrant that asset.

Obviously the premium positions should influence the pick more than positions that don't influence the game as much. QB, LT, EDGE RUSHER, CB are the main premium positions and depending On scheme you could add WR, TE and even NT to that list. Out of those positions you are best off taking BPA that fills need. if QB is fairly close to next BPA (talent wise) at one of those premier positions then QB is most likely your best choice. For a non premium position player to be considered he MUST be special.

Still When putting your list together you there are so many things to consider. For instance, Scheme fit and personality fit. Work ethic, ability to pick things up quickly, durability and even position longevity have to be considered.

Most on here that continually criticize others don't even take half of that into consideration. They just fall in love with one guy and go with it. I started out with 6 guys that I liked at #1. I've recently added a few. It's about getting the best value that fits all the criteria mentioned above and a few I'm sure I didn't mention. That value will be defined by OB and his staff.

While most only want one guy I love it that we have the #1 pick in such a deep draft. We have a lot of options and that can never be a bad thing. No matter who we pick whether it's Mack, Robinson, Watkins or the other mostly mentioned prospects, We will get an elite prospect at 1.1 unless we reach based purely on need. That should be the most important thing to a Texan fan.

mussop
02-22-2014, 12:47 PM
Interesting that Stephon Truit doesn't start off in his top 5.




Nothing against Bridgewater & though Manziel is intriguing........ Blake Bortles has been growing on me.

I'm assuming you are talking about Tuitt ND? If so it doesn't surprise me. The more I watch him the more he falls. I was really high on him at first but he's just to inconsistent.

Marshall
02-22-2014, 01:06 PM
Maybe not unpopular but it certainly wasn't popular when I floated the idea a few weeks ago. A lot of people here would freak out if we took an OLB with the #1 pick. Before the rookie wage scale it made sense to only take a premier position at the top of the draft. With the new rules you can afford to take a better player at a less important position and not have to worry as much about the financial implications.

I see Mercilus as a fit only as a WDE in a 43. I think Mack is the superior player and he is scheme diverse.

I wouldn't like it at 1-1. The point is getting maximum value by trading down and then taking him if that is your guy. The highest I've seen him is at #5.
A trade of our 1-1 (3000) with the Raiders for their 1-5 (1700), 2-36 (540), 3-67 (255), 4-103 (88) and their 2015 - 1st (420) ((3003)). Is a much better deal than simply picking him at 1-1.

This is reasonable if they have the desire to leapfrog the pack for their guy at QB. Rumor has indicated their guy is Manziel, who might be gone if they wait.

WolverineFan
02-22-2014, 01:20 PM
I wouldn't like it at 1-1. The point is getting maximum value by trading down and then taking him if that is your guy. The highest I've seen him is at #5.
A trade of our 1-1 (3000) with the Raiders for their 1-5 (1700), 2-36 (540), 3-67 (255), 4-103 (88) and their 2015 - 1st (420) ((3003)). Is a much better deal than simply picking him at 1-1.

This is reasonable if they have the desire to leapfrog the pack for their guy at QB. Rumor has indicated their guy is Manziel, who might be gone if they wait.

It's not reasonable. You have them giving up a 1st, a 2nd, a 3rd, and a 4th this year and a 1st next year to move up 4 spots. That's their first four picks this year and their top pick next year. No team is going to empty their draft like that for one player. Much less to move up just 4 spots.

In 2011, the Falcons gave up a 1st, a 2nd, and a 4th in 2011 and a 1st and 4th in 2012 to move up 21 spots (#27 to #6). You expect the Raiders to give up basically the same to move up 4 spots? Not a chance.

BTW, I agree with your stance on trading back if you are targeting a guy like Mack and getting maximum value out of the draft. However, there is no chance a team would unload their draft like that to move up 4 spots.

beerlover
02-22-2014, 01:26 PM
Maybe not unpopular but it certainly wasn't popular when I floated the idea a few weeks ago. A lot of people here would freak out if we took an OLB with the #1 pick. Before the rookie wage scale it made sense to only take a premier position at the top of the draft. With the new rules you can afford to take a better player at a less important position and not have to worry as much about the financial implications.

I see Mercilus as a fit only as a WDE in a 43. I think Mack is the superior player and he is scheme diverse.

would favor CJ Mosley OLB in Crennel defense over Mack if that was route. trust his tape against SEC competition over Mid-American. blame me for my lack of exposure, tried to watch Buffalo a couple times last season but just not that interested in their games as opposed to seeing almost all Alabama games. Mack was never contested or blocked, see the athletic ability & movement skills but just haven't seen enough based off that to project #1 overall. Had him mocked to Texans after bye week or very early in season when Texans were falling down hill, just never expected them to be choosing on the very bottom of the pile :hankpalm:

WolverineFan
02-22-2014, 01:35 PM
would favor CJ Mosley OLB in Crennel defense over Mack if that was route. trust his tape against SEC competition over Mid-American. blame me for my lack of exposure, tried to watch Buffalo a couple times last season but just not that interested in their games as opposed to seeing almost all Alabama games. Mack was never contested or blocked, see the athletic ability & movement skills but just haven't seen enough based off that to project #1 overall. Had him mocked to Texans after bye week or very early in season when Texans were falling down hill, just never expected them to be choosing on the very bottom of the pile :hankpalm:

You should check out his tape against Ohio State. He dominated that offensive line.

Marshall
02-22-2014, 01:37 PM
It's not reasonable. You have them giving up a 1st, a 2nd, a 3rd, and a 4th this year and a 1st next year to move up 4 spots. That's their first four picks this year and their top pick next year. No team is going to empty their draft like that for one player. Much less to move up just 4 spots.

In 2011, the Falcons gave up a 1st, a 2nd, and a 4th in 2011 and a 1st and 4th in 2012 to move up 21 spots (#27 to #6). You expect the Raiders to give up basically the same to move up 4 spots? Not a chance.

BTW, I agree with your stance on trading back if you are targeting a guy like Mack and getting maximum value out of the draft. However, there is no chance a team would unload their draft like that to move up 4 spots.

It depends on how much they want to get their guy. Why not use the trade in 2012 for comparison. Washington gave up their 6th pick + 38th pick + 2013 1st Rounder + 2014 1st Rounder. They also moved up 5 spots to the SECOND spot.

Rams
1-2 ((2600))

Redskins
1-6 (1600)
2-38 (520)
next years 1st (420)
year after nexts 1st (190)
((2930))

Now tell me again why they would NEVER do it?

beerlover
02-22-2014, 01:38 PM
You should check out his tape against Ohio State. He dominated that offensive line.

Mewhort doesn't really impress me that much, but will certainly check it out, thanks!!!

WolverineFan
02-22-2014, 01:44 PM
It depends on how much they want to get their guy. Why not use the trade in 2012 for comparison. Washington gave up their 6th pick + 38th pick + 2013 1st Rounder + 2014 1st Rounder. They also moved up 5 spots to the SECOND spot.

Rams
1-2 ((2600))

Redskins
1-6 (1600)
2-38 (520)
next years 1st (420)
year after nexts 1st (190)
((2930))

Now tell me again why they would NEVER do it?

1) They didn't unload their entire draft for one guy. They gave up 2 picks that year, 1 pick the next year, and 1 pick the year after. It was spread out. You have the Raiders giving up their top 4 picks this year plus top pick next year.

2) That trade seems to be universally considered a failure for Washington. Is a team really going to fall into that trap just 2 years later? I don't think so. Especially when RGIII was considered worthy of the #1 pick that year by most draftniks and all of the QB's this year are considered reaches at #1.

Playoffs
02-22-2014, 03:38 PM
Mayock is really going overboard on Clowney, here. Trashed him all day long, now trying to push him out of the Top 10 picks.

WolverineFan
02-22-2014, 09:14 PM
Mayock is really going overboard on Clowney, here. Trashed him all day long, now trying to push him out of the Top 10 picks.

It's a legitimate question. How hard will he work after he gets paid? It scares the hell out of scouts because it's one of the few things that you can't measure. You won't know until he starts getting the checks.

thunderkyss
02-22-2014, 09:25 PM
It's a legitimate question. How hard will he work after he gets paid? It scares the hell out of scouts because it's one of the few things that you can't measure. You won't know until he starts getting the checks.

Who'd have thunk David Carr wouldn't eat/sleep/drink football? Were there any signs?

TexansFTW
02-25-2014, 02:38 PM
At every pick of every round you should have a list of guys worthy of said pick. Because of need people want to exclude everything but QB with pick 1.1. I understand QB is the most important position on the field. ThAt doesn't mean you blindly use the best asset you have to fill the position. It doesn't mean use your best asset to put a player there that isn't talented enough to warrant that asset.

If QB is fairly close to next BPA (talent wise) at one of those premier positions then QB is most likely your best choice.

This is where I think the largest difference here is in this message board.

You and many others talk about this and say, 'if there isn't that much of a drop off between the QBs at 1.01 and QBs at 2.01 so grab best available'.

That logic is correct, there is nothing wrong with that.

But I think everyone (and I only speak for myself) that is preaching QB at 1.01 (Be it TB, Bortles, or JFF) all believe that those loser QBs available later in the draft won't be able to anything except hold a towel for those top 3 guys (depending on who your #1 is).

LikeMike
02-25-2014, 02:58 PM
Mayock is really going overboard on Clowney, here. Trashed him all day long, now trying to push him out of the Top 10 picks.

What was it, 1 sack in the last 40 quarters of play? Clowney is a physical freak with all the talent in the world. True, he was double teamed a lot last season, but he was far from a dominant player. His own coach questions his work ethic. A player, that can`t get dominate in college (or even have a very good season last year) raises question marks, especially if he is supposed to be a generational talent. That makes Clowney a risky pick. Not because of his talent or phyisique, there is no question about that - but you don`t know if he will ever put in the work needed. You don`t know if he won`t take 50% of snaps of. And you don`t know if he doesn`t lose interest in football once the money comes in.

Picking Clowney is a gamble. And with several other quality players on the board, I can understand dropping him.

thunderkyss
02-25-2014, 03:00 PM
But I think everyone (and I only speak for myself) that is preaching QB at 1.01 (Be it TB, Bortles, or JFF) all believe that those loser QBs available later in the draft won't be able to anything except hold a towel for those top 3 guys (depending on who your #1 is).

With Bortles at #3 (some have him at #1) & Carr at #4... I just find that extremely hard to believe.

eriadoc
02-25-2014, 03:21 PM
The more I read, the more I'm leaning toward Watkins.

IDEXAN
02-26-2014, 10:38 AM
I really appreciate Mayoc's choice of Mack as his top guy in the Draft. Not because I agree with him, which I definitely don't, but because it's such an outside the box kinda choice and demonstrates that Mayoc is secure enough in his own knowledge that he's "the guy" when it comes to the Draft that he's willing to make such an unconventional choice.

beerlover
02-26-2014, 10:49 AM
I really appreciate Mayoc's choice of Mack as his top guy in the Draft. Not because I agree with him, which I definitely don't, but because it's such an outside the box kinda choice and demonstrates that Mayoc is secure enough in his own knowledge that he's "the guy" when it comes to the Draft that he's willing to make such an unconventional choice.

agree to disagree. Mayock is just off. His attempt to stand out from those around him, chance to beat his chest with another, "this is my guy", "love this kid", "he's going to be special" stick. I don't know, nothing personal but he has worn on me. His top player(s) per position do not match my own or others I respect either. Mack could be a top 10 choice but should he be, little lone #1 overall :cheese:

Playoffs
02-26-2014, 11:06 AM
agree to disagree. Mayock is just off. His attempt to stand out from those around him, chance to beat his chest with another, "this is my guy", "love this kid", "he's going to be special" stick. I don't know, nothing personal but he has worn on me. His top player(s) per position do not match my own or others I respect either. Mack could be a top 10 choice but should he be, little lone #1 overall :cheese:

Kinda agree, Mayock behaves more like a television personality than a pro scout these days. The difference between the broadcast feed(Mayock) and the NFL.com feeds was dramatic. Only time network was better was on DBs w/Sanders and Haden.

I'm good with Mack top 10, but no way as 1-1. Headline seeking take, imo.

Blake
02-26-2014, 11:23 AM
Mayock along with everyone else is not a fortune teller. (In 2011 he ranked Gabbert #5 with Newton #21) They can project and predict based on what they know and what they have seen. We all know there is no magic formula. Every player evolves and progresses differently with different variables. Watch Clowney's game tape and interviews and make your mind up for yourselves. Only time will tell if any of these guys were the "correct selection."

eriadoc
02-26-2014, 12:00 PM
agree to disagree. Mayock is just off. His attempt to stand out from those around him, chance to beat his chest with another, "this is my guy", "love this kid", "he's going to be special" stick. I don't know, nothing personal but he has worn on me. His top player(s) per position do not match my own or others I respect either. Mack could be a top 10 choice but should he be, little lone #1 overall :cheese:

Mayock along with everyone else is not a fortune teller. (In 2011 he ranked Gabbert #5 with Newton #21) They can project and predict based on what they know and what they have seen. We all know there is no magic formula. Every player evolves and progresses differently with different variables. Watch Clowney's game tape and interviews and make your mind up for yourselves. Only time will tell if any of these guys were the "correct selection."

That he is no seer is absolutely true. But Mayock is arguably the most accurate guy (http://blog.pundittracker.com/2013-mock-draft-grades-todd-mcshay-crashes-back-to-earth/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=2013-mock-draft-grades-todd-mcshay-crashes-back-to-earth) out there, in a world of inaccuracy.

The Pencil Neck
02-26-2014, 01:01 PM
With Bortles at #3 (some have him at #1) & Carr at #4... I just find that extremely hard to believe.

I know you've stated that you don't see much difference between the top tier guys like Bridgewater and the lower tier guys like... oh... hmmm... McCarron... but most people don't feel that way.

The people who have identified with one QB or another will think their guy is going to be great and everyone else will be lucky to be a backup.

For me, I'm not sold on this QB class but I still think that Bridgewater is head and shoulders above the other QBs in this class and I think he's probably just an average NFL starter. I don't think Manziel is a long-term answer and I think Bortles isn't a short term answer, although he might be a better than average NFL starter eventually. I think there's a possibility that one of the lower tier guys is a surprise Brady-like story but I don't expect it and I only expect it if they're given a few years to develop.

The Pencil Neck
02-26-2014, 02:10 PM
That he is no seer is absolutely true. But Mayock is arguably the most accurate guy (http://blog.pundittracker.com/2013-mock-draft-grades-todd-mcshay-crashes-back-to-earth/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=2013-mock-draft-grades-todd-mcshay-crashes-back-to-earth) out there, in a world of inaccuracy.

Now. With that said.

What are we trying to measure here?

Are we trying to figure out which of these Pundits is able to accurately assess how the teams are going to assess and draft? Or are we trying to figure out how accurately these Pundits assess talent?

I'd be interested to take a look at the guys Mayock/Kiper/McShay rated highly vs. those players' actual production. Because just because they don't get who's going to pick whom where correctly doesn't necessarily mean that they missed on their assessment of which guys are talented.

I was looking at WRs a few years ago and comparing where they were drafted to where they were mocked and what I found is that the "draft experts" identified the guys who were going to be drafted but they didn't identify WHERE those guys were going to be drafted... and that for the most part, the NFL teams drafted guys in more of the order that they were productive than the "experts" did. Of course, that could be because the teams drafted the guys higher and gave them more chances to be productive.

IDEXAN
02-26-2014, 03:20 PM
agree to disagree. Mayock is just off. His attempt to stand out from those around him, chance to beat his chest with another, "this is my guy", "love this kid", "he's going to be special" stick. I don't know, nothing personal but he has worn on me. His top player(s) per position do not match my own or others I respect either. Mack could be a top 10 choice but should he be, little lone #1 overall :cheese:
Or maybe Mayoc is just a contrarian ? Do you happen to remember a few years ago when Husker DT Suh came out and everybody had him as their top guy escept Mayoc: he had OU DT Gerald McCoy ranked higher.
Mack is definitely in the conversation as one of the top non-QBs in this Draft, but personally I would rank atleast 3 other non-QBs ahead of him. But no doubt Mayoc is very bias about his home town guys from the Philly area.

eriadoc
02-26-2014, 04:09 PM
Now. With that said.

What are we trying to measure here?

Are we trying to figure out which of these Pundits is able to accurately assess how the teams are going to assess and draft? Or are we trying to figure out how accurately these Pundits assess talent?

I'd be interested to take a look at the guys Mayock/Kiper/McShay rated highly vs. those players' actual production. Because just because they don't get who's going to pick whom where correctly doesn't necessarily mean that they missed on their assessment of which guys are talented.

I was looking at WRs a few years ago and comparing where they were drafted to where they were mocked and what I found is that the "draft experts" identified the guys who were going to be drafted but they didn't identify WHERE those guys were going to be drafted... and that for the most part, the NFL teams drafted guys in more of the order that they were productive than the "experts" did. Of course, that could be because the teams drafted the guys higher and gave them more chances to be productive.

I don't really have an answer for you, but from my observation, they release their mock drafts with most of the effort being focused on who will be taken at what spot. However, most of the time, they sort of advocate the pick by talking up the qualities of the player. It's not that often that you see a pundit predict a player taken at a spot and then say "this is a round or two too early, but I think they'll do it". Occasionally you'll see that, or even an outright "do not like" comment in the prediction, but it seems like most of the time, a prediction is accompanied by a general comment on the players qualities.

So to my mind, they are advocating most of those picks unless specified otherwise.

Playoffs
03-03-2014, 06:24 PM
3/3 update (http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000330427/article/mike-mayocks-updated-position-rankings-for-2014-nfl-draft)
Quarterback
1. Teddy Bridgewater, Louisville
2. Johnny Manziel, Texas A&M
3. Blake Bortles, Central Florida
4. Derek Carr, Fresno State
t5. AJ McCarron, Alabama
t5. Jimmy Garoppolo, Eastern Illinois

New entry: Garoppolo

Running back
1. Bishop Sankey, Washington
2. Carlos Hyde, Ohio State
3. Jeremy Hill, LSU
4. Andre Williams, Boston College
5. Tre Mason, Auburn

Rise: Sankey (3)
Fall: Hyde (1), Hill (2)

Wide receiver
1. Sammy Watkins, Clemson
2. Mike Evans, Texas A&M
3. Marqise Lee, USC
4. Kelvin Benjamin, Florida State
t5. Jarvis Landry, LSU
t5. Odell Beckham, LSU

Rise: Evans (3)
Fall: Lee (2), Benjamin (4)
New entry: Cooks, Beckham

Tight end
1. Eric Ebron, North Carolina
2. Austin Seferian-Jenkins, Washington
3. Jace Amaro, Texas Tech
4. Troy Niklas, Notre Dame
5. C.J. Fiedorowicz, Iowa

Center
1. Marcus Martin, USC
2. Weston Richburg, Colorado State
3. Travis Swanson, Arkansas
4. Bryan Stork, Florida State
5. Gabe Ikard, Oklahoma

Guard
1. David Yankey, Stanford
2. Xavier Su'a-Filo, UCLA
3. Gabe Jackson, Mississippi State
4. Chris Watt, Notre Dame
5. Trai Turner, LSU

New entry: Turner
Out: Cyril Richardson, Baylor (5)

Offensive tackle
1. Greg Robinson, Auburn
2. Jake Matthews, Texas A&M
3. Taylor Lewan, Michigan
4. Zack Martin, Notre Dame
5. Joel Bitonio, Nevada

Rise: Robinson (2)
Fall: Matthews (1)
New entry: Bitonio
Out: Cyrus Kouandjio, Alabama (5)

Defensive tackle
1. Aaron Donald, Pittsburgh
2. Timmy Jernigan, Florida State
3. Louis Nix III, Notre Dame
4. Ra'Shede Hageman, Minnesota
5. Kelcy Quarles, South Carolina

Rise: Donald (3)
Fall: Nix (1)
New entry: Quarles
Out: Dominique Easley, Florida

Defensive end
1. Jadeveon Clowney, South Carolina
2. Kony Ealy, Missouri
3. Dee Ford, Auburn
4. Scott Crichton, Oregon State
5. Stephon Tuitt, Notre Dame

New entry: Tuitt
Out: Trent Murphy, Stanford

Linebacker
1. Khalil Mack, Buffalo
2. C.J. Mosley, Alabama
3. Anthony Barr, UCLA
4. Chris Borland, Wisconsin
5. Ryan Shazier, Ohio State

Cornerback
1. Darqueze Dennard, Michigan State
2. Justin Gilbert, Oklahoma State
3. Kyle Fuller, Virginia Tech
4. Bradley Roby, Ohio State
5. Jason Verrett, TCU

Rise: Roby (5)
Fall: Verrett (4)

Safety
1. Calvin Pryor, Louisville
2. Ha Ha Clinton-Dix, Alabama
3. Jimmie Ward, Northern Illinois
4. Deone Bucannon, Washington State
5. Lamarcus Joyner, Florida State

Rise: Ward (4)
Fall: Joyner (3)

Playoffs
03-05-2014, 01:07 PM
Mayock on Mack: 1st or 2nd defender drafted
NFL Network's Mike Mayock believes Buffalo edge player Khalil Mack will be the first or second defensive player selected in May.
The other is Jadeveon Clowney, but it is still noteworthy that Mayock notes there is a possibility of Mack being selected before the South Carolina pass rusher. "The wildcards are the quarterbacks," Mayock said. "Will a quarterback go No. 1? Will a tackle go No. 2?" Mack ranks as Josh Norris' No. 3 overall prospect.
Source: NFL.com Mar 5 - 12:44 PM
Mayock: Ford is a late 1st round 3-4 OLB
NFL network's Mike Mayock believes Auburn edge player Dee Ford is a late first-round pick as a 3-4 OLB.
"He jumped well, he ran well, his positional drills were excellent," Mayock said after witnessing Ford's pro day workout. The Auburn defender was held out of Combine workouts after doctors were scared off by a back injury that occurred in 2011. Rotoworld's Josh Norris does not think Ford is limited to a certain defensive scheme, since he shows burst off the snap, flexibility, and even hand use from multiple edge alignments.
Source: NFL.com Mar 5 - 1:00 PM
http://www.rotoworld.com/playernews/cfb/nfl-draft-player-news

Playoffs
03-09-2014, 09:52 PM
wrong thread

Playoffs
03-31-2014, 05:54 PM
Mayock's Update... (http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000338425/article/mike-mayocks-updated-position-rankings-for-2014-nfl-draft)
Quarterback
1. Johnny Manziel, Texas A&M
2. Blake Bortles, Central Florida
3. Teddy Bridgewater, Louisville
4. Derek Carr, Fresno State
t5. AJ McCarron, Alabama
t5. Jimmy Garoppolo, Eastern Illinois

Rise: Manziel (2), Bortles (3)
Fall: Bridgewater (1)

Running back
1. Bishop Sankey, Washington
2. Carlos Hyde, Ohio State
3. Jeremy Hill, LSU
4. Tre Mason, Auburn
5. Andre Williams, Boston College

Rise: Mason (5)
Fall: Williams (4)

Wide receiver
1. Sammy Watkins, Clemson
2. Mike Evans, Texas A&M
3. Marqise Lee, USC
4. Brandin Cooks, Oregon State
t5. Kelvin Benjamin, Florida State
t5. Jarvis Landry, LSU
t5. Odell Beckham, LSU

Tight end
1. Eric Ebron, North Carolina
2. Austin Seferian-Jenkins, Washington
3. Jace Amaro, Texas Tech
4. Troy Niklas, Notre Dame
5. C.J. Fiedorowicz, Iowa

Center
1. Marcus Martin, USC
2. Weston Richburg, Colorado State
3. Travis Swanson, Arkansas
4. Bryan Stork, Florida State
5. Gabe Ikard, Oklahoma

Guard
1. David Yankey, Stanford
2. Xavier Su'a-Filo, UCLA
3. Brandon Thomas, Clemson
4. Trai Turner, LSU
5. Gabe Jackson, Mississippi State

New entry: Thomas
Rise: Turner (5)
Fall: Jackson (3)
Out: Chris Watt, Notre Dame (4)

Offensive tackle
1. Greg Robinson, Auburn
2. Jake Matthews, Texas A&M
3. Taylor Lewan, Michigan
4. Zack Martin, Notre Dame
5. Joel Bitonio, Nevada

Defensive tackle
1. Aaron Donald, Pittsburgh
2. Timmy Jernigan, Florida State
3. Louis Nix III, Notre Dame
4. Ra'Shede Hageman, Minnesota
5. Daniel McCullers, Tennessee

Rise: Donald (3)
New entry: McCullers
Out: Kelcy Quarles, South Carolina (5)

Defensive end
1. Jadeveon Clowney, South Carolina
2. Kony Ealy, Missouri
3. Dee Ford, Auburn
4. Scott Crichton, Oregon State
5. Stephon Tuitt, Notre Dame

Outside linebacker
1. Khalil Mack, Buffalo
2. Anthony Barr, UCLA
3. Ryan Shazier, Ohio State
4. Trent Murphy, Stanford
5. Marcus Smith, Louisville

Inside linebacker
1. C.J. Mosley, Alabama
2. Chris Borland, Wisconsin
3. Shayne Skov, Stanford
4. Max Bullough, Michigan State
5. Preston Brown, Louisville

Cornerback
1. Darqueze Dennard, Michigan State
2. Kyle Fuller, Virginia Tech
3. Justin Gilbert, Oklahoma State
4. Bradley Roby, Ohio State
5. Jason Verrett, TCU

Rise: Fuller (3)
Fall: Gilbert (2)

Safety
1. Ha Ha Clinton-Dix, Alabama
2. Calvin Pryor, Louisville
3. Jimmie Ward, Northern Illinois
4. Deone Bucannon, Washington State
5. Lamarcus Joyner, Florida State

Rise: Clinton-Dix (2)
Fall: Pryor (1)

markn
03-31-2014, 07:10 PM
Love that Bridgewater has slipped. My ideal scenario is trade 1.1 with bills and take TB at 9. Doesn't look too far fetched, get the best QB in the draft and a boat load of extra picks.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I717 using Tapatalk

Playoffs
04-26-2014, 09:00 AM
Mayock: Teddy Bridgewater not a first-round quarterback (http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000344604/article/mayock-teddy-bridgewater-not-a-firstround-quarterback)
"I would say in general, tape is worth about 85 percent of an overall grade, and the rest of the process is set up for red flags, and to go back and watch more tape to try to confirm what you saw or didn't see," Mayock said. "I saw about four of his tapes prior to the combine, and I really liked him. I thought he had a chance to be a franchise quarterback from what I saw on the tape. ... Except you've got to see the quarterbacks throw the ball live. I've never seen a top-level quarterback in the last 10 years have a bad pro day, until Teddy Bridgewater. He had no accuracy, the ball came out funny, the arm strength wasn't there, and it made me question everything I saw on tape because this was live.

"I went back and watched a bunch more tape and compared him to the rest of the guys in the draft," he said. "And like it or not, I've come to a conclusion -- if I was a GM in the NFL, I would not take him in the first round of the draft."

In his latest position-by-position rankings, Mayock slots Bridgewater behind Manziel and Bortles as the third-best quarterback in the draft. Considering the analyst had him atop his list coming out of the NFL Scouting Combine, that's a rather signficant drop in just a few weeks...


As suspected, Mayock no longer does the work. "About four" is likely an exaggeration... but he goes on NFLN and gives opinions as if he's informed.

Teddy was one of the top players at the time... so how much work did Mayock do on lesser prospects???

Playoffs
04-28-2014, 12:08 PM
Mike Mayock's fourth edition of his position-by-position prospect rankings for the 2014 NFL Draft: (http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000344764/article/mike-mayocks-position-rankings-for-2014-nfl-draft)

Quarterback
1. Johnny Manziel, Texas A&M
2. Blake Bortles, Central Florida
3. Derek Carr, Fresno State
4. Jimmy Garoppolo, Eastern Illinois
T-5. Zach Mettenberger, LSU
T-5. Teddy Bridgewater, Louisville

New entry: Mettenberger
Rise: Carr (4), Garoppolo (T-5)
Fall: Bridgewater (3)
Out: AJ McCarron, Alabama (T-5)

Running back
1. Bishop Sankey, Washington
2. Carlos Hyde, Ohio State
3. Jeremy Hill, LSU
4. Tre Mason, Auburn
5. Andre Williams, Boston College

Wide receiver
1. Sammy Watkins, Clemson
2. Mike Evans, Texas A&M
3. Odell Beckham Jr., LSU
4. Brandin Cooks, Oregon State
T-5. Kelvin Benjamin, Florida State
T-5. Marqise Lee, USC

Rise: Beckham Jr. (T-5)
Fall: Lee (3)
Out: Jarvis Landry, LSU (T-5)

Tight end
1. Eric Ebron, North Carolina
2. Jace Amaro, Texas Tech
3. Austin Seferian-Jenkins, Washington
4. Troy Niklas, Notre Dame
5. C.J. Fiedorowicz, Iowa

Rise: Amaro (3)
Fall: Seferian-Jenkins (2)

Center
1. Marcus Martin, USC
2. Weston Richburg, Colorado State
3. Travis Swanson, Arkansas
4. Bryan Stork, Florida State
5. Gabe Ikard, Oklahoma

Guard
1. Xavier Su'a-Filo, UCLA
2. David Yankey, Stanford
3. Trai Turner, LSU
4. Gabe Jackson, Mississippi State
5. Chris Watt, Notre Dame

New entry: Watt
Rise: Su'a-Filo (2), Turner (4), Jackson (5)
Fall: Yankey (1)
Out: Brandon Thomas (injury), Clemson (3)

Offensive tackle
1. Greg Robinson, Auburn
2. Jake Matthews, Texas A&M
3. Taylor Lewan, Michigan
4. Zack Martin, Notre Dame
T-5. Joel Bitonio, Nevada
T-5. Cyrus Kouandjio, Alabama

New entry: Kouandjio

Defensive tackle
1. Aaron Donald, Pittsburgh
2. Ra'Shede Hageman, Minnesota
3. Timmy Jernigan, Florida State
4. Louis Nix, Notre Dame
5. Dominique Easley, Florida

New entry: Easley
Rise: Hageman (4)
Fall: Jernigan (2), Nix (3)
Out: Daniel McCullers, Tennessee (5)

Defensive end
1. Jadeveon Clowney, South Carolina
2. Kony Ealy, Missouri
3. Dee Ford, Auburn
4. Scott Crichton, Oregon State
5. Stephon Tuitt, Notre Dame

Outside linebacker
1. Khalil Mack, Buffalo
2. Anthony Barr, UCLA
3. Ryan Shazier, Ohio State
4. Demarcus Lawrence, Boise St.
5. Kyle Van Noy, BYU

New entry: Lawrence, Van Noy
Out: Trent Murphy, Stanford (4); Marcus Smith, Louisville (5)

Inside linebacker
1. C.J. Mosley, Alabama
2. Chris Borland, Wisconsin
3. Preston Brown, Louisville
4. Max Bullough, Michigan State
5. Shayne Skov, Stanford

Rise: Brown (5)
Fall: Skov (3)

Cornerback
1. Kyle Fuller, Virginia Tech
2. Darqueze Dennard, Michigan State
3. Justin Gilbert, Oklahoma State
4. Bradley Roby, Ohio State
5. Jason Verrett, TCU

Rise: Fuller (2)
Fall: Dennard (1)

Safety
1. Ha Ha Clinton-Dix, Alabama
2. Calvin Pryor, Louisville
3. Jimmie Ward, Northern Illinois
4. Deone Bucannon, Washington State
5. Lamarcus Joyner, Florida State

How do players "tie"... ? :hmmm:

DX-TEX
04-28-2014, 12:17 PM
There is a guy named Watt in this draft?

We should get him. Worked ok the last time

HOU-TEX
04-28-2014, 12:29 PM
I've been a big Mayock guy for quite a while, but I can admit, his in depth scouting has dropped off significantly this year. Maybe it's due to doing more NFL games this past season? I'm not sure.

That said, I'll still be watching he and the rest of the NFLN crew on draft day. Watching espn and their two draft "experts" is liken to scrapping fingernails on a chalkboard. I'm not sure I'd watch the draft if NFLN wasn't around.

Playoffs
04-28-2014, 12:40 PM
There is a guy named Watt in this draft?

We should get him. Worked ok the last time

He kinda sucked until he got better today. Nobody really saw him much, being at Notre Dame. :kitten:

disaacks3
04-28-2014, 03:22 PM
3/3
quarterback
1. Teddy bridgewater, louisville
2. Johnny manziel, texas a&m
3. Blake bortles, central florida
4. Derek carr, fresno state
t5. Aj mccarron, alabama
t5. Jimmy garoppolo, eastern illinois

4/28

quarterback
1. Johnny manziel, texas a&m
2. Blake bortles, central florida
3. Derek carr, fresno state
4. Jimmy garoppolo, eastern illinois
t-5. Zach mettenberger, lsu
t-5. Teddy bridgewater, louisville

Once again, Mayock may be a pundit, but he's no scout.

Teddy didn't suddenly get worse. Mayock is regurgitating a composite of OTHER opinions (wherever they may come from) and selling it as his own evaluation. That's not an evaluation, it's called averaging.

The Pencil Neck
04-28-2014, 03:53 PM
3/3


4/28


Once again, Mayock may be a pundit, but he's no scout.

Teddy didn't suddenly get worse. Mayock is regurgitating a composite of OTHER opinions (wherever they may come from) and selling it as his own evaluation. That's not an evaluation, it's called averaging.

This gets back to my whole issue of what these guys are supposed to be reporting.

Are they supposed to come up with a draft board that reflects their grades on how good they think players are... divorced from scheme?

Are they supposed to come up with 32 draft boards so they can figure out which players are going to go where?

Are they supposed to be telling us which teams appear to like which players so they can figure out where those players are going to go?

Are they supposed to be telling us which players they like for which teams?

Each one of those things is a totally and completely different thing requiring entirely different information. AND, I don't think any team actually has their own board set into stone at this point, so trying to determine what a particular team's board looks like is doomed to failure. And if a particular team is still figuring out their boards with all the people they have available, all the eyes they have looking at this, all the money they're pouring into it, can we really blame a guy who's got a much smaller staff working on it for changing his mind and not being all things to all people?

Texian
04-28-2014, 04:55 PM
3/3


4/28


Once again, Mayock may be a pundit, but he's no scout.

Teddy didn't suddenly get worse. Mayock is regurgitating a composite of OTHER opinions (wherever they may come from) and selling it as his own evaluation. That's not an evaluation, it's called averaging.

Mayock sitting at the NFLN desk excused himself so he could go down on the field and witness up close and personal Bridgewater, Bortles and Manziel first hand. He personally eye balled each and every one of them. When the workout was over he came back on the air and gave his opinion of each of the players performance. I don't think that falls under regurgitating others opinions. As for Mayock he grew up a coaches son, played at Boston College and played professionally for 3 years. He's been doing this his whole life.

disaacks3
04-28-2014, 11:19 PM
Mayock sitting at the NFLN desk excused himself so he could go down on the field and witness up close and personal Bridgewater, Bortles and Manziel first hand. He personally eye balled each and every one of them. When the workout was over he came back on the air and gave his opinion of each of the players performance. I don't think that falls under regurgitating others opinions. As for Mayock he grew up a coaches son, played at Boston College and played professionally for 3 years. He's been doing this his whole life.

So, what was that opinion based off of on 3/3? Oh that's right, he hasn't even watched 4 games worth of tape on the kid by his own admission.

He was telling the world how Teddy's Pro Day had gone...while it was going on behind him!

There was a time when what Mayock said might have been worth something, that time has passed. What Mayock may have ONCE been, he is no more. His day job these days is a talking head I take only slightly more seriously than Kiper.

Face it, it's no longer HIS board, it's a running averaged tally of what he's hearing from others.

Texian
04-29-2014, 08:30 AM
So, what was that opinion based off of on 3/3? Oh that's right, he hasn't even watched 4 games worth of tape on the kid by his own admission.

He was telling the world how Teddy's Pro Day had gone...while it was going on behind him!

There was a time when what Mayock said might have been worth something, that time has passed. What Mayock may have ONCE been, he is no more. His day job these days is a talking head I take only slightly more seriously than Kiper.

Face it, it's no longer HIS board, it's a running averaged tally of what he's hearing from others.


Negative Ghost Rider!

FYI - most coaches and scouts only watch 3-4 games of a players top competition. Contrary to popular belief they don't watch every game of a players college and high school career. It's physically impossible to do such a task on 500 players. You can do the math.

bah007
04-29-2014, 09:46 AM
I like to watch a player's two best games and two worst games so four games isn't crazy to me.

What I don't like about Mayock is that he says that game tape is 85% of the process and combines and pro days are the other 15%, but then he absolutely kills a guy for being great at the 85% and bad at the 15%.

I don't care if he likes Bridgewater or not. But don't make a statement like that and then totally contradict it with your "rankings".

Texian
04-29-2014, 09:55 AM
I like to watch a player's two best games and two worst games so four games isn't crazy to me.

What I don't like about Mayock is that he says that game tape is 85% of the process and combines and pro days are the other 15%, but then he absolutely kills a guy for being great at the 85% and bad at the 15%.

I don't care if he likes Bridgewater or not. But don't make a statement like that and then totally contradict it with your "rankings".

Sometimes that 15% can be THE difference maker. That's why they have a Combine and Pro days. In TB's case the Pro Day confirmed and verified many of the questions a number of folks said they had from watching TB games and tape. Completely understandable for many, for those in love with Teddy, not so much.

bah007
04-29-2014, 10:12 AM
Sometimes that 15% can be THE difference maker. That's why they have a Combine and Pro days. In TB's case the Pro Day confirmed and verified many of the questions a number of folks said they had from watching TB games and tape. Completely understandable for many, for those in love with Teddy, not so much.

I like Teddy a lot, but very rarely do I fall in love with a prospect. You're not going to get very far with me with that argument.

The 15% was enough for me to drop Bridgewater behind Bortles in my rankings. I understand the concerns about him. You and I have clashed enough times on this board to understand that the other guy may not always be right, but he does at least know what he is talking about.

My point is that it takes a lot more than 15% to drop a guy from 1st all the way to 6th. If Mayock would just admit that I would be fine with his opinion. There was a time when Mayock was a guy who would stand on his own opinion. That time has passed. His rankings used to look drastically different from everybody else. Now they look exactly the same.

The reason for that? I don't know. He's a busy man these days. Perhaps he doesn't have the time to do the amount of research that he used to. Or perhaps his hard work has given him a reputation that makes him untouchable, so he has decided to slide back toward the average and avoiding taking risks? Whatever the case, if you put his board next to Kiper's and McShay's you wouldn't be able to tell which is his.

disaacks3
04-29-2014, 10:16 AM
Negative Ghost Rider!

FYI - most coaches and scouts only watch 3-4 games of a players top competition. Contrary to popular belief they don't watch every game of a players college and high school career. It's physically impossible to do such a task on 500 players. You can do the math.

Maverick still requesting flyby - Some do and some don't. It depends on the player and position of need. They will definitely watch more tape of "top" prospects.


The Do's
Jeremiah went more in-depth on the process with fellow former Seahawks and Panthers scout Bucky Brooks on their CFB 24/7 podcast recently, expounding on the method to the madness of trying to land on a grade. "A lot of times when we'd get a discussion on a player," he said, "we would go up to the whiteboard, go around the room and say, okay, 'Which games did you watch? Which games did you watch?' Then literally, the director in the room would be like, ‘Okay, Bucky, why don't you go watch these four late-season games, D.J., you need to go watch these three games you missed early in the year. Let's come back together and see if we can't figure this guy out. We got to get him right, we got to get him where he belongs."

That's a classic methodology developed by Ozzie Newsome, the Ravens' highly-respected and preeminent scout-GM. However, as Bucky Brooks relates, that's certainly not universal from team to team.

The Don'ts
"It's funny," Brooks says, "when I worked in Seattle -- and the Green Bay Packers did this with Ted Thompson and Ron Wolf -- when we had these pre-Combine meetings, we would go in at the end of January, we would sit in this room, we'd pop on the tape, Kony Ealy (for example), and we would watch, as a group, three games. At the end of watching three games, as a unit, we would then decide where that player would go on the board." Link (http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2014/3/6/5473554/2014-nfl-draft-scouting-process-big-board)

Texian
04-29-2014, 10:50 AM
Maverick still requesting flyby - Some do and some don't. It depends on the player and position of need. They will definitely watch more tape of "top" prospects.

Link (http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2014/3/6/5473554/2014-nfl-draft-scouting-process-big-board)

FTR - I don't follow or read Brooks or Jeremiah. Both have illustrated quite well why they're no longer scouts and have resorted to talking and writing heads. In Jeremiah's case he had 3 jobs in 6 years. That kind of resume goes straight in my trash can. They do know all the lexicon, definitions, scout talk, drills and their purpose. Unfortunately they don't have an eye for the talent and why they're no longer scouts. They weren't very good at it.

That said, your quotes indicate that they watched 3-4 games and only watched more when directed by the GM to do so. Still the average number of games a scout or coach will watch of an average player will be 3-4 games. There is an exception for 1st picks when there is more scrutiny at stake.

It's understandable that many have become upset with Mayock because he had some not so nice things to say about Teddy. Many have now turned on Mayock for downgrading Teddy. Also understandable is Mayock would be the GREATEST if he announced that Teddy is the next best thing to Andrew Luck. He didn't. However, if Mayock has resorted to copy catting, regurgitating, parroting or simply repeating what all the others have to say, as some have accused, why is Mayock one of the few saying what he's saying about Teddy. If Mayock was truly resorting to becoming all of the above, then everyone would be saying what Mayock is saying about Teddy. They're not! It appears that Mayock is not who many of you think he is.

disaacks3
04-29-2014, 12:51 PM
That said, your quotes indicate that they watched 3-4 games and only watched more when directed by the GM to do so. Still the average number of games a scout or coach will watch of an average player will be 3-4 games. There is an exception for 1st picks when there is more scrutiny at stake. Thanks for making my point...again.


You're mistaking my taking Mayock to task for player preference. Teddy was simply a high-profile example. Nobody should go from #1 at their position (not to mention potential 1:1 overall) to #5/#6 in 8 weeks without some sort of major disaster. We're not talking mediocre Pro Day, we're talking hit-and-run, felony drug possession, broke their leg, shattered their knee, etc.

Since that didn't happen, either A) Mayock didn't do his homework to begin with or...B) He's regurgitating what he's hearing now from others around the league who might actually have done theirs.

Mayock simply isn't who you think he is, the rest of us are fine.:kitten:

thunderkyss
04-29-2014, 03:29 PM
My point is that it takes a lot more than 15% to drop a guy from 1st all the way to 6th.


I don't know. If you believe what OB said, that there are 10 guys that are really close, I can see a QB falling quite a bit in a draft like this... I believe there are 5 QBs in this draft with a first round grade, another 4 with a 2nd round grade. There are going to be some really good QBs available in the later rounds.


If Mayock would just admit that I would be fine with his opinion.

Agree. Totally agree. I couldn't see Bridgewater as the #1 overall QB with the questions I had. I said so. Shouldn't have been too hard for Mayock to say what he felt as well.

Having Bridgewater rated as the best QB in this class, then mocking him at #1 overall with no other QB going in the top 10 (way back when), doesn't sound like he believes the QBs in this class are close at all.

Playoffs
05-03-2014, 01:49 PM
Mayock 5/1 Conference Call Transcript:

http://nfllabor.files.wordpress.com/2014/05/mike-mayock-2014-nfl-draft-conference-call-transcript.pdf

It was 2 hours, mike pee'd, he had some takes.

If you don't want to read it, you can let this guy give you his highlights:

2014 NFL Draft nuggets from NFL Media analyst Mike Mayock (http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000345919/article/2014-nfl-draft-nuggets-from-nfl-media-analyst-mike-mayock)