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PHILLYTEXANFAN
02-16-2014, 06:13 PM
Anyone besides me wanna see a good competition between Myers and Jones for the Center job this TC, last thing we need is a repeat of Myers getting manhandled by opposing defenses

mussop
02-16-2014, 06:21 PM
Anyone besides me wanna see a good competition between Myers and Jones for the Center job this TC, last thing we need is a repeat of Myers getting manhandled by opposing defenses

You need to check the calibration on your time machine. i think you are a few years off.

PHILLYTEXANFAN
02-16-2014, 06:24 PM
lol maybe A few clicks too far over


Your man... Pots and pans

ObsiWan
02-16-2014, 06:50 PM
I want to see how Jones works out at OG. The fact that he can fill in for Myers if something should happen is gravy. Better this way than to have Myers trying to play guard.

PHILLYTEXANFAN
02-16-2014, 07:00 PM
I think Quessenberry and brooks can handle the OG spots personally


Your man... Pots and pans

CloakNNNdagger
02-16-2014, 07:25 PM
I want to see how Jones works out at OG. The fact that he can fill in for Myers if something should happen is gravy. Better this way than to have Myers trying to play guard.

I just have this feeling that OB is going to want a heavier center. Meyers not only gives up 20 pounds to Jones, but he gives up about the same to many of the D's he faces.

ObsiWan
02-16-2014, 07:26 PM
I think Quessenberry and brooks can handle the OG spots personally

Your man... Pots and pans

Maybe... but can Ben Jones call the blocking assignment signals as well as Myers?

PHILLYTEXANFAN
02-16-2014, 07:28 PM
Maybe... but can Ben Jones call the blocking assignment signals as well as Myers?


Worth a try. I fear Myers will be manhandled by not playing ZBS, I believe he was a product of that system


Your man... Pots and pans

thunderkyss
02-16-2014, 07:47 PM
Worth a try. I fear Myers will be manhandled by not playing ZBS, I believe he was a product of that system


Your man... Pots and pans

Vince Wilfork.

Kris Jenkins.


You're a fool if you don't double team those two regardless who your center is. When no named nobodies start jacking up Myers, let me know.


At the same time, we spent a third round pick on Ben Jones. Shame we can't find a place on the field for him.

Brisco_County
02-16-2014, 08:10 PM
It's strange that we're talking about replacing the center when that was not a failure point last season and LG was.

Also, please cite the last time Myers was manhandled. If you're talking about that Jets game five years ago, that's just silly.

Texan_Bill
02-16-2014, 08:11 PM
I was one of those guys that scolded Chris Meyers after the viral video of Kris Jenkins of the Jests whoopin', abusing his arse.... That said, I retracted my opinion about Meyers. He played very well.... The thing was, or the question asked should be was he good because of Kubiak's system???

Also it should be noted that Meyers is 34 years old.... Maybe it is time to move to Jones.

thunderkyss
02-16-2014, 10:04 PM
http://www.houstontexans.com/assets/images/imported/HOU/photos/In_Story_Photos_400_190/580mya.jpg

The Pencil Neck
02-16-2014, 10:12 PM
Worth a try. I fear Myers will be manhandled by not playing ZBS, I believe he was a product of that system


The problem with this statement is the belief that OB doesn't use a ZBS.

He does.

I expect Myers to continue to fit right in.

drs23
02-16-2014, 10:19 PM
The problem with this statement is the belief that OB doesn't use a ZBS.

He does.

I expect Myers to continue to fit right in.

Why does this keep getting brought up? I thought that was settled long ago.

Shheeesh.

welsh texan
02-17-2014, 08:01 AM
Silly question, surely everyone wants to see a TC battle at every position. Whether that be Chris Myers, Derek Newton, or JJ Watt.

It's one of the key things that Kubiak wasn't capable of instigating, ever.

Amobi Okoye didn't have to compete, the starting job was his no questions, same went for Kareem Jackson (first couple of years), if the resources invested made a battle embarrassing, you didn't get one.

It's something I'm hoping well see a huge change in.

Would you ever have seen Kubiak make a big QB signing in FA and then invite controversy by using a first day pick at the same position, knowing at least one would fail? Of course you wouldn't, but Seattle are World Champs.

It's also one of the reasons why we failed to develop talent on the Oline to replace the likes of Smith, Walter, brisiel etc, if you aren't de facto #1 you don't get the reps to be ready to step in under Kubiak. Caldwell may have fixed the LG spot already had that not been the case, that swing tackle we had for years (forget his name) may have fixed the RT spot 3 years ago but no. Starters were starters.

I think this explains the incredibly poor record we have in the 2nd and 3rd rounds, if your draft status didn't earn you a starting spot, you sure as hell weren't about to threaten an established vets place in the team.

infantrycak
02-17-2014, 08:19 AM
Silly question, surely everyone wants to see a TC battle at every position. Whether that be Chris Myers, Derek Newton, or JJ Watt.

It's one of the key things that Kubiak wasn't capable of instigating, ever.

There isn't a team in the league that follows that model.

Would you ever have seen Kubiak make a big QB signing in FA and then invite controversy by using a first day pick at the same position, knowing at least one would fail? Of course you wouldn't, but Seattle are World Champs.

That is charitably called a stretch. 3rd round QBs no matter what day they fell on have never been considered inviting controversy and the Seahawks thought they were drafting a backup QB. Matt Flynn was brought in to compete with Tarvaris Jackson.

You need an example of someone more talented the Kubiak Texans held back to substantiate your assertion.

HOU-TEX
02-17-2014, 09:16 AM
Jones made Newton look like an All-Pro. I'm sorry, but unless he's night and day better at C than he is G he's not the answer. I know he was a C in college, but you'd think he'd pick up the G position after a couple years.

It really sucked Q went down last year. I'm looking forward to see him rebound this camp and win a spot

welsh texan
02-17-2014, 09:18 AM
There isn't a team in the league that follows that model.



That is charitably called a stretch. 3rd round QBs no matter what day they fell on have never been considered inviting controversy and the Seahawks thought they were drafting a backup QB. Matt Flynn was brought in to compete with Tarvaris Jackson.

You need an example of someone more talented the Kubiak Texans held back to substantiate your assertion.

That is difficult given that my assertion is that we've seen players' development hindered to the point where they never reached their talent potential.

However, I believe the FO leak earlier this season about the failure to rotate players, can be construed as evidence that it is not just me who sees this as having been a problem.

Earl Mitchell didn't get enough reps behind Shaun Cody, whilst. Chris Jones went and started for New England having barely seen the field for us.

Foster was held back for 3/4 of a season behind who exactly, and then Ben Tate has been criminally under utilised to the point where we've ran Foster into the ground just because he was in 'the doghouse' during a season when he remained relatively healthy.

I've not been one to hound Kubiak, I think he moved the club to a new level over his tenure (it was definitely time to move on though), I just see this as having been a failing he had. He never trusted young players with few reps, and subsequently they never got enough reps to develop.

Your first point, yeah, you're right, it's a league wide thing, not that it necessarily makes it right. If your first round draft pick isn't ready to play week 1, don't throw him to the wolves anyway, find someone who can play and feed him in gradually.

In fact I think the NFL as a whole is roundly failing in the area of talent development, when you reach the pros, due to the salary cap and roster limitations, it's sink or swim straight away when in other sports you find lots of players who take a few years of extremely uneven play before finding their feet at the top level.

I'd love to see some kind of reserve league added for development, keep them seperate from the actual roster, play maybe 4 or 6 games a season against other reserve teams, and see how they get on, maybe be able to activate one or 2 per season to the active roster and for the rest they just have to wait till the following TC to try and battle it out. Would give more young players a chance to get better IMHO.

I always respect your opinion ICAK, but sometimes you look for a little too much "proof" considering we're discussing a game where secrecy and schadenfreude are king. It's very rare you'll get the true spin on what's going on behind the scenes in a varifiable manner. Look at some of the rubbish posted as 'news' on NFL.com and it's little more than speculation from the same outside position as we get with maybe a little more access to Chinese whispers than what we get as lay-fans.

thunderkyss
02-17-2014, 09:33 AM
Jones made Newton look like an All-Pro. I'm sorry, but unless he's night and day better at C than he is G he's not the answer. I know he was a C in college, but you'd think he'd pick up the G position after a couple years.

It really sucked Q went down last year. I'm looking forward to see him rebound this camp and win a spot

I thought Ben Jones did a fine job. Give him the starting job & he'll grow into it. I think it should have had the job over Wade Smith for sure. Rotating in & out of the game as a rookie I thought he did as well as Brooks. Different, but for what he did, he did well.

I'm not saying he should be a lock for the LG spot, if Ques is going to be in competition for the position, let them battle it out. But I think Q & Brennan should be battling for the RT job.

HOU-TEX
02-17-2014, 09:39 AM
I thought Ben Jones did a fine job. Give him the starting job & he'll grow into it. I think it should have had the job over Wade Smith for sure. Rotating in & out of the game as a rookie I thought he did as well as Brooks. Different, but for what he did, he did well.

I'm not saying he should be a lock for the LG spot, if Ques is going to be in competition for the position, let them battle it out. But I think Q & Brennan should be battling for the RT job.

I'm not certain what you're seeing, man. Smith had a rough year, but Jones wasn't close to beating him out or anyone else along the oline. Saying he did just as well as Brooks is crazy. Brooks was one of the better of the bunch towards the end of the season. Playing next to Newton is what hurt him.

infantrycak
02-17-2014, 09:41 AM
I always respect your opinion ICAK, but sometimes you look for a little too much "proof" considering we're discussing a game where secrecy and schadenfreude are king. It's very rare you'll get the true spin on what's going on behind the scenes in a varifiable manner. Look at some of the rubbish posted as 'news' on NFL.com and it's little more than speculation from the same outside position as we get with maybe a little more access to Chinese whispers than what we get as lay-fans.

I am not against speculation and hopes. I am just wary of building a storyline out of smoke which over time becomes bricks through repetition.

I'm not certain what you're seeing, man. Smith had a rough year, but Jones wasn't close to beating him out or anyone else along the oline. Saying he did just as well as Brooks is crazy. Brooks was one of the better of the bunch towards the end of the season. Playing next to Newton is what hurt him.

I'll second this.

steelbtexan
02-17-2014, 09:56 AM
I thought Ben Jones did a fine job. Give him the starting job & he'll grow into it. I think it should have had the job over Wade Smith for sure. Rotating in & out of the game as a rookie I thought he did as well as Brooks. Different, but for what he did, he did well.

I'm not saying he should be a lock for the LG spot, if Ques is going to be in competition for the position, let them battle it out. But I think Q & Brennan should be battling for the RT job.

Most C's in college start out playing OG for a couple of yrs and learn the OL calls. Then when the vet C starts making too much $$$$ they let him walk in FA and the young guy takes over at C. (See Unger for the Seahawks/Deitrich-Smith Packers etc....)

thunderkyss
02-17-2014, 11:57 AM
I'm not certain what you're seeing, man. Smith had a rough year, but Jones wasn't close to beating him out or anyone else along the oline. Saying he did just as well as Brooks is crazy. Brooks was one of the better of the bunch towards the end of the season. Playing next to Newton is what hurt him.

Last year, yes. Brooks looked much better at the end of the year than he did to start... most likely due to not having to rotate in & out of the game all year.

Ben Jones didn't get to play until mid year & then he was rotating in & out with Wade. As bad as he may have looked, Wade played so poorly, imo, that he shouldn't have been allowed on the field unless it was because of injury. I'd have cut him before the season started because nothing I saw in 2012, or the 2013 preseason had me believing he could play anywhere close to his cap number.

But... when I say Ben Jones looked as good as Brooks, I was talking about in 2012 when they were both rotating in & out of the OL. Different, but relatively equal development. If it were me, Brooks would have started on the Left side & Ben would have started on the right side.

HOU-TEX
02-17-2014, 01:28 PM
Last year, yes. Brooks looked much better at the end of the year than he did to start... most likely due to not having to rotate in & out of the game all year.

Ben Jones didn't get to play until mid year & then he was rotating in & out with Wade. As bad as he may have looked, Wade played so poorly, imo, that he shouldn't have been allowed on the field unless it was because of injury. I'd have cut him before the season started because nothing I saw in 2012, or the 2013 preseason had me believing he could play anywhere close to his cap number.

But... when I say Ben Jones looked as good as Brooks, I was talking about in 2012 when they were both rotating in & out of the OL. Different, but relatively equal development. If it were me, Brooks would have started on the Left side & Ben would have started on the right side.

Still don't know what you're watching. He was even worse in 12 than 13. The only thing that kept the rotation going was Brooks' inconsistency. In 2012 Brooks was bad for MA's. Jones just flat out got whooped more times than not.

Agree to disagree

dream_team
02-17-2014, 06:51 PM
Earl Mitchell didn't get enough reps behind Shaun Cody, whilst. Chris Jones went and started for New England having barely seen the field for us.

I like Earl, and think he is underrated in TT, but he's not much better that Shaun Cody IMO. He has the potential to be, but not quite there yet. And the only reason Chris Jones started in NE was due to injuries. It's not like he "took over" the starting job. The Pats were also 3rd from last in rushing defense, so was he even playing well?

Foster was held back for 3/4 of a season behind who exactly, and then Ben Tate has been criminally under utilised to the point where we've ran Foster into the ground just because he was in 'the doghouse' during a season when he remained relatively healthy.

How do you know Foster was ready to play in this league when he was first signed? Arian himself said he had alot to learn. Lets not assume Foster would have been successful from day one. Who knows, maybe the only reason Arian was successful was because Kubiak waited until he was ready?

I've not been one to hound Kubiak, I think he moved the club to a new level over his tenure (it was definitely time to move on though), I just see this as having been a failing he had. He never trusted young players with few reps, and subsequently they never got enough reps to develop.

Your first point, yeah, you're right, it's a league wide thing, not that it necessarily makes it right. If your first round draft pick isn't ready to play week 1, don't throw him to the wolves anyway, find someone who can play and feed him in gradually.

Are you contradicting yourself a little there? You first say Kubes didn't trust young players. Then you say if the young guy isn't ready to play, don't throw him into the wolves?

In fact I think the NFL as a whole is roundly failing in the area of talent development, when you reach the pros, due to the salary cap and roster limitations, it's sink or swim straight away when in other sports you find lots of players who take a few years of extremely uneven play before finding their feet at the top level.

I'd love to see some kind of reserve league added for development, keep them seperate from the actual roster, play maybe 4 or 6 games a season against other reserve teams, and see how they get on, maybe be able to activate one or 2 per season to the active roster and for the rest they just have to wait till the following TC to try and battle it out. Would give more young players a chance to get better IMHO.

I agree with you here, and it is due to the salary cap. Because of the cap, just about every team MUST heavily rely on the rookies they just drafted to contribute, and contribute right away!

_King_
02-17-2014, 06:51 PM
I'm not worried about the oline. Personally I want to see quess at RT with some good competition behind him pushing and the best out of jones, Brennan Williams and others at LG.

Don't care what blocking scheme we use.

Thing about learning to zone block is that you can carry over a lot of those techniques to a man blocking scheme. Not sure what we'll ultimately run, but to me it doesn't matter.

matts290
02-18-2014, 02:20 AM
Worth a try. I fear Myers will be manhandled by not playing ZBS, I believe he was a product of that system


Your man... Pots and pans

We will see, maybe Meyers can add a little weight in order to transition form ZBS to a different scheme?


Your dude... Forks and spoons.

badboy
02-18-2014, 12:02 PM
I like Myers but age/cap are negatives. Jones should have enough time now to call plays & size/youth should make him equal. He is not a OG & needs to be center or cut. Q should start unless we draft someone like Gabe Jackson.

infantrycak
02-18-2014, 12:06 PM
Jones has shown zilch to indicate he is anything close to equal to Myers. A lot of Duane Brown's slump this season was watching out over the LG.

CloakNNNdagger
02-18-2014, 12:08 PM
I'm not worried about the oline. Personally I want to see quess at RT with some good competition behind him pushing and the best out of jones, Brennan Williams and others at LG.

Don't care what blocking scheme we use.

Thing about learning to zone block is that you can carry over a lot of those techniques to a man blocking scheme. Not sure what we'll ultimately run, but to me it doesn't matter.

Maintaining same weight does not transition well from one scheme to the other. And increased weight may not transition to the maintenance of the original scheme.

badboy
02-18-2014, 12:12 PM
Jones has shown zilch to indicate he is anything close to equal to Myers. A lot of Duane Brown's slump this season was watching out over the LG.Hasn't most of Jones game experience come at LG? Cannot compare him to Myers at center; it would have to be from training as a center.

thunderkyss
02-18-2014, 04:30 PM
I like Myers but age/cap are negatives. Jones should have enough time now to call plays & size/youth should make him equal. He is not a OG & needs to be center or cut. Q should start unless we draft someone like Gabe Jackson.

Myers' cap number is nowhere near bad enough to consider cutting him with a brand new head coach. If he were in the NFL the last 4 years & had the inside line at a guy he knows/trusts to handle that position (pretty important position) maybe.

But no way I can see us cutting Myers.

Scooter
02-21-2014, 09:12 AM
he's gotten some quality time over the past two years at both right guard and left guard, and to be honest, i havent seen anything from jones that i would call starter material. not very physical, no pop off the line, and way too many mental mistakes for my liking. maybe that was being out of position or the role didnt allow for much "gel", but i just dont see it in jones.

Porky
02-21-2014, 10:33 AM
Myers is starting to get a bit long in the tooth, but I expect him to start this year for sure and probably next year. After that, we'll see. He has been one of the best centers in the NFL over the past several years.

Competition is good and I don't mind anyone having to compete for a job but it's a real stretch to say Ben Jones has a legit shot at the starting C spot.

Jones looks like a competent career backup/spot starter to me. Having said that, if he works hard maybe he is the heir apparent there. Time will tell.

eriadoc
02-21-2014, 11:09 AM
Jones spends way too much time on his ass.

CloakNNNdagger
02-21-2014, 06:14 PM
Jones spends way too much time on his ass.

That was a unique blocking technique introduced to the entire OL last year.:rake:

RipTraxx
02-22-2014, 03:35 AM
If we switch from a ZBS we're basically starting from scratch as far as the entire OL depth chart is concerned. Brooks and maybe Brown are the exception....

CloakNNNdagger
02-27-2014, 07:21 PM
For those that are not aware, Myers had offseason arthroscopic elbow surgery.

Texan_Bill
02-27-2014, 08:27 PM
For those that are not aware, Myers had offseason arthroscopic elbow surgery.

WOW!! That's actually is huge Doc... As someone that played O-Line, we understand what it means for an offensive lineman to explode off the line but more importantly jab that defensive lineman (violently) with full effort to effect their rush..

What kind of repair time (i.e. elbow full strength/extension) are we talking about? 6-8 weeks? 3 months?

As an aside, the Texans should be looking for another Center anyway, given Myers age. No?

Playoffs
02-27-2014, 08:33 PM
For those that are not aware, Myers had offseason arthroscopic elbow surgery.

Wow. I missed that one. Could be important.

As an aside, the Texans should be looking for another Center anyway, given Myers age. No?Within the next couple of years if Jones is no good. Myers was still playing at a good level, but his pass blocking dipped a bit possibly due to Wade's weak play.

CloakNNNdagger
02-27-2014, 09:28 PM
Wow. I missed that one. Could be important.

Within the next couple of years if Jones is no good. Myers was still playing at a good level, but his pass blocking dipped a bit possibly due to Wade's weak play.

Most elbow problems can be handled by conservative non-operative approach. Only 5-10 require surgery.

If you remember back in I believe it was Nov of last season, I reported that he was having significant elbow problems which concerned me for a center who requires repetitive pushing against resistance. He was evidently receiving concentrated treatment............but no rest, which is one of the most important components of the conservative approach. Not resting the elbow could have resulted in nothing but aggravation and extension of the injury. And following failed conservative treatment, surgery was decided on.

BTW, pass blocking is much harder on the elbows than run blocking since your arms can be kept more controlled central to the body.

CloakNNNdagger
02-27-2014, 09:38 PM
WOW!! That's actually is huge Doc... As someone that played O-Line, we understand what it means for an offensive lineman to explode off the line but more importantly jab that defensive lineman (violently) with full effort to effect their rush..

What kind of repair time (i.e. elbow full strength/extension) are we talking about? 6-8 weeks? 3 months?

As an aside, the Texans should be looking for another Center anyway, given Myers age. No?


3 months is probably a good bet. But since we don't know the exact pathology or exact procedure we can't prognosticate exact level of performance return. Tennis elbow release? chipped off cartilage? ligament repair? arthritis?..............none of these are what you would want to have in your starting center.

thunderkyss
03-05-2014, 11:10 AM
Here's a great interview (http://houston.cbslocal.com/2014/02/25/chris-myers-thoughts-for-the-upcoming-season/) with Chris Myers.

CloakNNNdagger
03-05-2014, 01:34 PM
Here's a great interview (http://houston.cbslocal.com/2014/02/25/chris-myers-thoughts-for-the-upcoming-season/) with Chris Myers.

Thanks for posting. Great interview. msr.

CloakNNNdagger
06-14-2014, 11:34 PM
All linemen are going at least ~310 or heavier this year. If Meyers has not bulked up from his 286 playing weight last year, he's going to be wearing a big target for the Ds......and the Oline will essentially have a funnel in the middle.

infantrycak
06-14-2014, 11:51 PM
All linemen are going at least ~310 or heavier this year. If Meyers has not bulked up from his 286 playing weight last year, he's going to be wearing a big target for the Ds......and the Oline will essentially have a funnel in the middle.

He's going to become less capable because the guys around him are bigger?

xtruroyaltyx
06-15-2014, 12:42 AM
The problem with this statement is the belief that OB doesn't use a ZBS.

He does.

I expect Myers to continue to fit right in.

All zone schemes aren't created equal.

From my understanding this will be more of a power type zone whereas kubiaks was more on the finesse side.

Kubiaks zone was more about getting the defense to move sideways whereas this zone (I think) will be more straight ahead type zone. More inside the tackles zone and less outside stretch type stuff

Not really commenting on Meyers effectiveness...just pointing out that while we are still going to use zone, it'll be different than what we've seen in the past. Less cutback stuff and more hit the hole.

And really I'd say most nfl teams run some variation of zone blocking.

The Pencil Neck
06-15-2014, 01:05 AM
All zone schemes aren't created equal.

From my understanding this will be more of a power type zone whereas kubiaks was more on the finesse side.

I'll bow to your greater knowledge of the OL but from what I saw, Kubiak started a good deal removed from that pure finesse Gibbs zone, then moved to it when he brought Gibbs in, then when Gibbs left and Dennison came in, they moved back to more of a power oriented zone with a lot of stuff up the middle. And I think you could see that with the drafting of someone like Brooks.

I don't think there's going to be huge departure in what the OL is going to be asked to do from what it was being asked to do.

But... like I said... you know more about OL play than I do.

CloakNNNdagger
06-15-2014, 09:06 AM
He's going to become less capable because the guys around him are bigger?

No but on 3rd or 4th and 1, or goal line and short, where the ZBS shows its vulnerabilities and the straight power plays become so important.........the middle, which is then especially so important, will be at its weakest.

infantrycak
06-15-2014, 09:57 AM
No but on 3rd or 4th and 1, or goal line and short, where the ZBS shows its vulnerabilities and the straight power plays become so important.........the middle, which is then especially so important, will be at its weakest.

He's been to the pro bowl twice (and likely would have gone last year but for being on a 2 win team) and Foster has led the league in rushing TDs with him at center. There's a long list of worse "weaknesses" than him not having a few extra pounds. Seems like a classic case of form over substance.

Uncle Rico
06-15-2014, 01:30 PM
Myers is one of the better C's in football. Might not be the most physical, but he calls a great game for the OLine.

xtruroyaltyx
06-15-2014, 04:48 PM
I'll bow to your greater knowledge of the OL but from what I saw, Kubiak started a good deal removed from that pure finesse Gibbs zone, then moved to it when he brought Gibbs in, then when Gibbs left and Dennison came in, they moved back to more of a power oriented zone with a lot of stuff up the middle. And I think you could see that with the drafting of someone like Brooks.

I don't think there's going to be huge departure in what the OL is going to be asked to do from what it was being asked to do.

But... like I said... you know more about OL play than I do.

Nah man...I dont discount anyone's thoughts. I enjoy the conversation as long as it doesn't get condescending. I don't know everything, but we all know what we know...ya know?

But you are right...in the colts game where Arian gashed them a few years ago to start the season...we were running a lot of inside stuff.

And really I'm wouldn't cement my thoughts on anything ob is going to do. I have my thoughts/hunches...but he's pretty much said he intends on mixing **** up, so who knows...

As far as Chris is concerned...I think he'll be fine. He's gotten a lot better since he first arrived. Titans wanted him when munchak was there right?

Seegara
06-15-2014, 05:00 PM
I just have this feeling that OB is going to want a heavier center. Meyers not only gives up 20 pounds to Jones, but he gives up about the same to many of the D's he faces.
You don't have to be big to be an awesome center. Consider Mike Webster who used to play for Pittsburgh.
The problem with this statement is the belief that OB doesn't use a ZBS.

He does.
But not exclusively, let us hope.

badboy
06-15-2014, 05:01 PM
My concern is Myers has played in a shift to one side or other catching the defense at an angle not pushing straight ahead with muscle against muscle. As I understand he and the other Oline will be in more of a power attack mode. I prefer that but not sure how he will perform. He has stated IIRC before last season that he is successful as he is able to get low and engage the opponent; maybe that will continue but I'm not optimistic. Ben Jones is 6'3" and about 315.

infantrycak
06-15-2014, 06:52 PM
My concern is Myers has played in a shift to one side or other catching the defense at an angle not pushing straight ahead with muscle against muscle. As I understand he and the other Oline will be in more of a power attack mode. I prefer that but not sure how he will perform. He has stated IIRC before last season that he is successful as he is able to get low and engage the opponent; maybe that will continue but I'm not optimistic. Ben Jones is 6'3" and about 315.

The C for one of the greatest power rushing OLs in NFL history was 6' 2" 269 lbs on a heavy day.

Playoffs
06-15-2014, 07:30 PM
PFF top 2 overall rated Cs in 2013...

Jason Kelce 6'03" Weight: 290

Dominic Raiola 6'01" Weight: 295

Myers (6'4"/286) was rated 2nd/35 Cs in run blocking in 2013.

He would have been the top overall rated C except for a horrid game in week 17 vs. Denver. His pass blocking fell off in 2013 with Wade's bad year and QB carousel. I'm not as worried as Doc is, but agree we need to have an eye on the future there.

badboy
06-15-2014, 10:01 PM
The C for one of the greatest power rushing OLs in NFL history was 6' 2" 269 lbs on a heavy day.
One guy really does not overwhelm my concerns.

badboy
06-15-2014, 10:24 PM
PFF top 2 overall rated Cs in 2013...

Jason Kelce 6'03" Weight: 290

Dominic Raiola 6'01" Weight: 295

Myers (6'4"/286) was rated 2nd/35 Cs in run blocking in 2013.

He would have been the top overall rated C except for a horrid game in week 17 vs. Denver. His pass blocking fell off in 2013 with Wade's bad year and QB carousel. I'm not as worried as Doc is, but agree we need to have an eye on the future there.yes but the rub blocking Myers was rated in was a
ZBS not the same as he will be in now. I'm not saying he will fail. I am just not optimistic.

xtruroyaltyx
06-15-2014, 10:30 PM
Is Ben jones much bigger than Meyers?

I don't remember seeing them next to each other and thinking one was much bigger than the other.

Looked up their weights and it looks like jones is about 20lbs heavier...but is he as good? That's what's most important...

infantrycak
06-15-2014, 10:33 PM
One guy really does not overwhelm my concerns.

There are a few thousand examples of 310 lb+ fat asses sitting at home watching NFL games on Sundays while Myers has started and excelled for the past 112 straight games because guys actually paid to make NFL decisions decided he was the right guy for the job.

Looked up their weights and it looks like jones is about 20lbs heavier...but is he as good? That's what's most important...

That's all I am getting at. It's not like we are talking about trotting Trindon Holliday out there to play C and so any 310 lb dude will be an upgrade.

xtruroyaltyx
06-15-2014, 10:37 PM
yes but the rub blocking Myers was rated in was a
ZBS not the same as he will be in now. I'm not saying he will fail. I am just not optimistic.

It appears that we will be zone blocking in this new Scheme. But we just don't know what type if zone blocking yet.

It appears to me that it will be more of a power zone type Scheme...inside stuff....not as much outside the tackle/stretch

We really just have to wait and see how this stuff plays out. We really don't know. Well I don't. Can't speak for everyone.

thunderkyss
06-15-2014, 11:58 PM
Myers is one of the better C's in football. Might not be the most physical, but he calls a great game for the OLine.


That's going to be the QBs duty from now on.

thunderkyss
06-16-2014, 12:06 AM
yes but the rub blocking Myers was rated in was a
ZBS not the same as he will be in now. I'm not saying he will fail. I am just not optimistic.

We expect Crennel to put our defensive players in the best possible position to be successful, why wouldn't we expect the same on the offensive side of the ball?

These guys are good at zone blocking... Su'a-Filo is good at zone blocking... & like TPN said, we actually did a lot of ISOs & other run blocking as well... just more zone.

I expect our offense to be more of an evolution than a clean break.


http://a.espncdn.com/media/pg2/2002/1211/photo/stepnoski.jpg

I think that's the guy 'cak was talking about.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-KrXLIz90sDQ/T0Wk3RALn4I/AAAAAAAAACg/YwFBTdhjuVY/s1600/saturdayx-large.jpg

That's another guy who wasn't particularly huge & one of the better centers of our time.

CloakNNNdagger
06-16-2014, 09:33 AM
We expect Crennel to put our defensive players in the best possible position to be successful, why wouldn't we expect the same on the offensive side of the ball?

These guys are good at zone blocking... Su'a-Filo is good at zone blocking... & like TPN said, we actually did a lot of ISOs & other run blocking as well... just more zone.

I expect our offense to be more of an evolution than a clean break.


http://a.espncdn.com/media/pg2/2002/1211/photo/stepnoski.jpg

I think that's the guy 'cak was talking about.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-KrXLIz90sDQ/T0Wk3RALn4I/AAAAAAAAACg/YwFBTdhjuVY/s1600/saturdayx-large.jpg

That's another guy who wasn't particularly huge & one of the better centers of our time.


I think there is a big difference, especially in center of gravity, when comparing 6'2" 196 lbs (Saturday) and 6'4" 186 lbs (Meyers).

CloakNNNdagger
06-16-2014, 10:18 AM
We expect Crennel to put our defensive players in the best possible position to be successful, why wouldn't we expect the same on the offensive side of the ball?

These guys are good at zone blocking... Su'a-Filo is good at zone blocking... & like TPN said, we actually did a lot of ISOs & other run blocking as well... just more zone.

I expect our offense to be more of an evolution than a clean break.


http://a.espncdn.com/media/pg2/2002/1211/photo/stepnoski.jpg

I think that's the guy 'cak was talking about.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-KrXLIz90sDQ/T0Wk3RALn4I/AAAAAAAAACg/YwFBTdhjuVY/s1600/saturdayx-large.jpg

That's another guy who wasn't particularly huge & one of the better centers of our time.

As far as Stepnoski, he was indeed considered undersized at 6'2" 270, and he was a smashmouth power player. But he played between 1989 and 2001, where DL players were nowhere close to as big as they are now. Furthermore, he LIVED in the weight room and it was well known that he could bench and squat more than his 300 pound teammates. Chris Meyers is not that center. Meyers is not a Stepnoski.

76Texan
06-16-2014, 11:04 AM
That's going to be the QBs duty from now on.

The Center is still calling protection, from one of the new pieces released from HoustonTexans.com

disaacks3
06-16-2014, 11:31 AM
As far as Stepnoski, he was indeed considered undersized at 6'2" 270, and he was a smashmouth power player. But he played between 1989 and 2001, where DL players were nowhere close to as big as they are now. Furthermore, he LIVED in the weight room and it was well known that he could bench and squat more than his 300 pound teammates. Chris Meyers is not that center. Meyers is not a Stepnoski. No, but they're both "technicians" who aren't running big guys over. Step had arguably the best technique / leverage I've ever seen in a lineman. I always wondered if he'd make a good coach.

Playoffs
06-16-2014, 12:35 PM
The Center is still calling protection, from one of the new pieces released from HoustonTexans.com

I saw that, I think in an interview, and found it strange. Pretty sure QB makes all calls in NE... ?

xtruroyaltyx
06-16-2014, 01:00 PM
I'd be surprised if the OL didn't have any calls.

badboy
06-16-2014, 01:09 PM
There are a few thousand examples of 310 lb+ fat asses sitting at home watching NFL games on Sundays while Myers has started and excelled for the past 112 straight games because guys actually paid to make NFL decisions decided he was the right guy for the job.



That's all I am getting at. It's not like we are talking about trotting Trindon Holliday out there to play C and so any 310 lb dude will be an upgrade.Very kind of you to ignore the point of my post that Myers will not be playing in the same type of offense as he has, at least as it has been indicated.
We seemingly have gotten away from the light weight nose and may be headed that way for center. Ben Jones was not drafted to be "any 310 pound upgrade." He was a very good center in college.

Power and size appears to be the offensive and defensive lines going forward. I will not be surprised if Myers is the center but not surprised if he is not.

xtruroyaltyx
06-16-2014, 01:17 PM
Very kind of you to ignore the point of my post that Myers will not be playing in the same type of offense as he has, at least as it has been indicated.
We seemingly have gotten away from the light weight nose and may be headed that way for center. Ben Jones was not drafted to be "any 310 pound upgrade." He was a very good center in college.

Power and size appears to be the offensive and defensive lines going forward. I will not be surprised if Myers is the center but not surprised if he is not.



Regardless of the type of blocks we will be doing more often, the better player will start...

They aren't going to look at Myers then Look at Jones..And say..."well even though this guy is more effective for us, we are going to start this other guy because he's bigger..."

Now..being bigger/stronger MIGHT help him in OB's scheme...but again..it's about which guy ends up playing the best.

Uncle Rico
06-16-2014, 04:02 PM
That's going to be the QBs duty from now on.

there is way too much going on up front for the QB to hand out blocking assignments, especially the QB's in this system. A signal caller might be able to shift the line one way or another, maybe slide the TE over or tell the RB which way to chip, but now way will he tell one of the hogs who to pick up in an exotic front when he is the bubble man, or who to help.

A good center is hard to come by. A fat boy who can move another fat boy a few yards down the field is very common.

Myers has nothing to worry about.

76Texan
06-16-2014, 04:49 PM
I just rewatched the first half of the 34-7 trouncing of the Colts in 2011.

The O-line was pretty much flawless as the Texans jumped out to a 24-0 lead.
Winston then allowed a sack on 2nd down; the Texans couldn't convert on third down and settled for a FG to go up 27-0.
The D stopped the Colts again and Jacoby returned a punt for a TD.
Texans were up 34-0 at the half.

Game over.
I'd like to see the O-line put up similar performances this year.
It won't matter who's at QB.

Oh, I also saw Collins ran back 20 yards before grounding the ball intentionally (for a 15-yd penalty) to avoid a sack.
The good thing for him was that he had time to throw the ball away without the fear of being intercepted or something else bad happened.
If the pass rusher was right on top of him, Collins would have had to take a twenty-yard sack, at least.
Damn stupid veteran QB.
Wonder how he got to play in the SB. :kitten:

thunderkyss
06-16-2014, 09:17 PM
I think there is a big difference, especially in center of gravity, when comparing 6'2" 196 lbs (Saturday) and 6'4" 186 lbs (Meyers).

You mean 296, & 286 right?

I think weight is part of it, but so is build & the make up of that weight. Then there's technique & scheme.

I won't bat an eye if OB replaces Meyers as our starting center. I just don't think that would be a good idea. We know OB is not opposed to running zone, so unless he's opposed to winning, I'd imagine he'd run enough to take advantage of Chris Meyers' strengths... which the other four guys should also be pretty good at.

thunderkyss
06-16-2014, 09:22 PM
there is way too much going on up front for the QB to hand out blocking assignments, especially the QB's in this system.

In "this system" it's traditionally been the QBs duty to call the protection. That's one of the "OB expects his QB to do more." stuff.

Uncle Rico
06-16-2014, 10:07 PM
In "this system" it's traditionally been the QBs duty to call the protection. That's one of the "OB expects his QB to do more." stuff.

You're still missing the point. There are a plethora of calls going on presnap. A QB MIGHT influence the blocking scheme to shade to the strong side of the defense, or the other variables I pointed out. If you are saying that the QB is going to be able to pick up shades on a DLineman and then tell the guys up front who to pick up, THEN make a presnap read, adjust his WR's etc... etc.... well then I'll just have to disagree.

Tom Brady doesn't do that. Not sure where this myth that a Belichick/OBrien QB will make every single call on the field came from.

badboy
06-16-2014, 10:18 PM
Regardless of the type of blocks we will be doing more often, the better player will start...

They aren't going to look at Myers then Look at Jones..And say..."well even though this guy is more effective for us, we are going to start this other guy because he's bigger..."

Now..being bigger/stronger MIGHT help him in OB's scheme...but again..it's about which guy ends up playing the best.
That is so thought provoking! Never considered starting the better player before, I wonder if the other 31 teams have thought of that?

The point of my posts is that in this new ZBS that seems to be more of a power blocking directed more straight ahead than to an angle, a bigger stronger player could be the better player. Of course size does not always mean better but there is a reason, we are going bigger.

76Texan
06-16-2014, 11:57 PM
That is so thought provoking! Never considered starting the better player before, I wonder if the other 31 teams have thought of that?

The point of my posts is that in this new ZBS that seems to be more of a power blocking directed more straight ahead than to an angle, a bigger stronger player could be the better player. Of course size does not always mean better but there is a reason, we are going bigger.

I'm not sure that O'Brien's intention was to go big.
S'ua Filo is only 307.
Spencer Long who went at #79 is 320
Gabe Jackson at #81 is 336.

CloakNNNdagger
06-17-2014, 07:51 AM
I'm not sure that O'Brien's intention was to go big.
S'ua Filo is only 307.
Spencer Long who went at #79 is 320
Gabe Jackson at #81 is 336.

Don't be surprised to see Filo gain at least 5 pounds by the end of training camp as many rookies do as they bulk up. Wade Smith was a similar 6'4" and weighed only 295. A more mobile, stronger, meaner Filo at a probable 312 or more will be more than big enough and a huge upgrade. BTW, Long is more of a project and doesn't move all that well.........and Jackson is a fatty who is a decent anchor but has a problem off the line with the slowest 40 time at the Combine.......neither a great comparison to Filo.

HOU-TEX
06-17-2014, 08:46 AM
It's Myers not Meyers

76Texan
06-17-2014, 09:53 AM
Don't be surprised to see Filo gain at least 5 pounds by the end of training camp as many rookies do as they bulk up. Wade Smith was a similar 6'4" and weighed only 295. A more mobile, stronger, meaner Filo at a probable 312 or more will be more than big enough and a huge upgrade. BTW, Long is more of a project and doesn't move all that well.........and Jackson is a fatty who is a decent anchor but has a problem off the line with the slowest 40 time at the Combine.......neither a great comparison to Filo.

But that is exactly the point, Doc.
Looks like OB wants a good player, not a big body.
If a player can build up his strength by gaining muscle and not losing weight, I'm sure any coach would love it.

Kubiak, on the other hand, didn't necessarily "prefer" small/agile linemen.
Brandon Brooks weighed in at 346 at his pro day.
Kubiak must have been comfortable with that to draft him.
Duane Brown was 315 at the combine, about average or just above average weigh for an OT.
Antoine Caldwell at 309 was "bigger" than 2/3 of the centers started last year in the NFL.
I don't think Kubiak can expect to get a player in with the hope that he can easily trim up just like that.

CloakNNNdagger
06-17-2014, 10:41 AM
But that is exactly the point, Doc.
Looks like OB wants a good player, not a big body.
If a player can build up his strength by gaining muscle and not losing weight, I'm sure any coach would love it.

Kubiak, on the other hand, didn't necessarily "prefer" small/agile linemen.
Brandon Brooks weighed in at 346 at his pro day.
Kubiak must have been comfortable with that to draft him.
Duane Brown was 315 at the combine, about average or just above average weigh for an OT.
Antoine Caldwell at 309 was "bigger" than 2/3 of the centers started last year in the NFL.
I don't think Kubiak can expect to get a player in with the hope that he can easily trim up just like that.

I understand what you're saying. I am simply trying to point out that "big" on the OL does ideally mean big in the physical and in how the player plays. Caldwell filled the bill, before his ankle problems..........Spencer filled the bill, before his knee was destroyed..........and we all saw how 15 pounds contributed (notwithstanding his foot problem) to Brown's performance. Bigger and stronger and athletic is what OB recognizes as a significant key to success in his system. I expect that the "smaller agile" will fairly quickly fall to the wayside.