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CloakNNNdagger
02-12-2014, 04:34 PM
Expect a different battle cry. Look for the old "We must work HARDER" to turn to "We must work SMARTER."

Pulled this very astute piece by Rivers McCown published near the end of last season.


Case Keenum and The Dumbening of the Texans (http://threeconedrill.com/2013/12/16/case-keenum-and-the-dumbening-of-the-texans/)
December 16, 2013


I once saw Case Keenum’s existence as a blight upon the Texans. Not because I didn’t enjoy his work (I went to the University of Houston), and not because I thought he was untalented — but because his background inevitably meant that radio callers would wonder why he wasn’t starting yet. It’s the Tim Tebow Jacksonville syndrome taken to a much smaller scale — a loud minority that stakes a claim on a bandwagon that seems kind of ridiculous.

But after this season, I am thrilled with Case Keenum, because his play has illustrated a core problem that the Texans have. The people involved in this organization are not dumb men, but they are men that are married to the ideas that got them to where they are today. There is no learning on the Houston Texans. Keenum’s development shows exactly why that is. Here is what we know about Keenum’s short time as a starter:

– Keenum started off by hitting the deep balls that Matt Schaub could not. Through Week 15, Keenum’s average deep pass has gone 26.9 yards in the air — only Ryan Tannehill and Jason Campbell have thrown deeper among quarterbacks with more than 30 attempts. With no time to prepare Keenum for the intimate details of the offense, Gary Kubiak adjusted his scheme to fit the player. They ran plenty of play-action. They mostly kept him in shotgun or pistol looks. And through his first three starts, he had 231 DYAR against two of the three best defenses in the league — Arizona and Kansas City (with Justin Houston) — and a Colts pass defense that has yo-yoed between good and bad throughout the season.

– Kubiak benched him for Schaub, twice, late in games. The original reason given was that he does not know the proper protection schemes. My (admittedly unchecked) observation is that Kubiak did not trust Keenum without a running back in the backfield, and moving to Schaub would presumably avoid hot read confusion, which has been an issue for Keenum. Of course, Keenum ran a no-huddle spread offense pretty well in college, but okay, sure, the protection scheme is an issue. Not an undying belief in an obsolete quarterback. Got it.

– Bob McNair, at the press conference firing Kubiak, praised Kubiak to the rafters. He also explained to the remaining coaching staff in no uncertain terms that Case Keenum was the starting quarterback of the Houston Texans for the rest of the season.

– And then, this week, Texans fans were treated to a completely inept offensive display, where Keenum mostly stayed in the pocket and checked down, the Texans barely ran any play-action, and deep passes were almost non-existent in the game plan. This is the kind of game plan you’d put in if you were intentionally tanking a season. But the Texans have been so adamant that they’re putting full effort in and trying their best down the stretch that they couldn’t even give us that sliver of hope that somebody upstairs decided it was time to throw in the towel. No, it’s the fact that this was a game plan they intentionally came up with that is the saddest thing of all.

In those first three weeks, Keenum threw 20 deep balls and garnered 176 DYAR on them. Practically all of his positive value as a quarterback was coming from his ability to make the deep throw. In five weeks since, his DYAR on deep balls has dropped to -8, and his average deep ball is going just 25.4 yards in the air past the line of scrimmage. It was nearly 29 in the first three games.

Is it possible that Keenum just rode a hot start and wasn’t really that talented at all? Sure. I think there’s plenty of reason to be skeptical of an undrafted quarterback. But the fact that he did it against fairly good competition stands out to me. My evaluation of Keenum right now is, to steal a Matt Waldman trope, that he’s on the Titans quarterback scale. He’s somewhere behind Ryan Fitzpatrick and Jake Locker, with a ceiling in between the two. It’s funny to picture him as Locker because of the obvious physical differences, but that’s how they play: inconsistent on short passes, can run around all day, and can make any throw on the field even if they often won’t. I think he’s got a career as a backup, and with a little development he’s got a chance to be more.

Well, here’s the problem, then: when you shift from using a player the way he’s best used to trying to make him fit your system, it’s obviously going to destroy his value to some extent. Most players are not as extreme as Keenum — as we just went over, almost all Keenum’s value comes from throwing deep — but to me that points to a failure of coaching. A failure of properly utilizing the parts you have in the best possible way.

FOR THE REST OF THE STORY CLICK THE LINK IN THE TITLE

kiwitexansfan
02-12-2014, 04:59 PM
For sure, one of the key themes to look for in FA and draft will be football intelligence and scheme flexibility.

RTP2110
02-12-2014, 08:58 PM
Spot on article, IMO. It seemed to me that the more coaching Keenum received, the worse he played.

texan_joe
02-12-2014, 09:57 PM
Spot on article, IMO. It seemed to me that the more coaching Keenum received, the worse he played.

Or...... The more tape teams got on Keenum the more he sucked. I understand the UH lovefest that some people in this city have for the guy, hell I'm a UT fan and had the same for VY, we were both wrong.

Allstar
02-12-2014, 10:08 PM
Scheming every week against our opponents on both sides of the ball is what has me most excited about O'Brien.

Hervoyel
02-12-2014, 10:11 PM
Spot on article, IMO. It seemed to me that the more coaching Keenum received, the worse he played.

It has seemed like that applied to a number of players here. Guys got here and seldom got better as a result.

Scooter
02-12-2014, 11:04 PM
good link doc. i'm a keenum fan, that's no secret. i'm NOT however a hometown or UofH homer - i don't think i've ever actually watched a UofH game. i said before and still believe that he has every tool necessary to be a success. there's a reason i'm not a talent evaluator though, the tools i see may or may not be the exact package of skills required to make it. i'm very anxious to see how o'brien rates keenum.

what i took from this article is a stance i agree with - "but to me that points to a failure of coaching". kubiak's a fantastic teacher and he has a great system, one of the best. it's a very very structured system however. it's at it's best with longer developing timing and option routes, usually from play-action and heavier packages. despite being strong at drawing up route combinations, kubiak doesnt run 4+ receiver and shotgun offenses well at all, it's just ugly. this spread attack is the adjustment he tried to make to focus on keenum's perceived strengths however, to both of their detriments. with the injuries at runningback, the offensive line falling apart and essentially a rookie who frankly wasnt ready yet, we saw the unavoidable results.

i'm trying not to magnify keenum's highlights and ignore his lowlights, but as a fan it's sometimes hard to do. he's got a lot of work to do to make it in this league, but as i started with, i think he has the tools and if given the chance to get comfortable with the system in camp - keenum could be very very good.

OzzO
02-13-2014, 07:06 AM
Spot on article, IMO. It seemed to me that the more coaching Keenum received, the worse he played.

Or...... The more tape teams got on Keenum the more he sucked. I understand the UH lovefest that some people in this city have for the guy, hell I'm a UT fan and had the same for VY, we were both wrong.

or.... numerous players that started well with the team then ended up not being "Texans worthy" & dropped went on to be amazing additions to other teams

HJam72
02-13-2014, 07:15 AM
To be honest, I really think that the majority of Keenum's drop off came from CBs and Safeties not giving up on the play and letting receivers go (deep) after 10 or so seconds. The guy is a master at avoiding the sack, staying behind the LOS (WAY behind, in many cases), and then throwing a bomb to somebody that is no longer covered because some DB thought the play was basically over already.

I'm not saying Kubiak's spread out wide and throw it short (and soon) Offense didn't screw him up some, though. I just think it was mostly the Defenses figuring him out.

And I was definitely a supporter of Keenum until it was clearly not working anymore.

PS-if OB shocks me and says, "Keenum is our starter," I will definitely watch with interest, though.

jtexas
02-13-2014, 07:26 AM
I think his decline was

1/3 anticipation by opponents of how he reacts to certain coverages and blitzing. He took some massive sacks trying to extend plays.
1/3 lack of creative play calling
1/3 lack of a running game and protection toward the end

Let's not discount the whole Schaub/Kubiak drama either. I speculate there was a lot of opinion in that locker room on who should be starting and I doubt it was motivational.

_King_
02-13-2014, 07:27 AM
Keenum is not what told me about this past coaching staff. There were several examples of poor adjustments, bad personnel management, and slow short AND long term recognition.

I do not know for sure that OB will be the guy that gets us where we want to be, but I feel better about him than I did about the previous staff. But I wanted them gone so bad I probably would have felt better about almost anyone. Kubiak was a good offensive coordinator, but he was not a good head coach at all.

ArlingtonTexan
02-13-2014, 08:17 AM
meh...just another Case keenum excuse article/thread. Would have interested if some new info on O'Brien's schemes instead revisiting Case's already over discussed half as an NFL starter.

buddyboy
02-13-2014, 08:21 AM
I think his decline was

1/3 anticipation by opponents of how he reacts to certain coverages and blitzing. He took some massive sacks trying to extend plays.
1/3 lack of creative play calling
1/3 lack of a running game and protection toward the end

Let's not discount the whole Schaub/Kubiak drama either. I speculate there was a lot of opinion in that locker room on who should be starting and I doubt it was motivational.

All three of those excuses you listed can be claimed by Schaub as well (to an extent). Keenum was not the only one who was limited by Kubiak (if there is indeed truth to that), behind a O-line who's right side was a joke, or whose opponents didn't game-plan for or scout.

In the same way Keenum declined, Schaub declined, albeit by a much larger margin. Contrary to what some posters would believe, Schaub used to be a top 15 QB in this league and somehow declined this season to one of the WORST. Add in another excuse of injury, Schaub has more reasons to decline than Keenum.

Yet, it seems the opinion of this board that Schaub's decline is not only all on Schaub, but permanent, while Keenum's is reversible and mostly Kubiak's, the defenses, the O-lines, and even Schaub's fault.

All that said, goodbye Schaub, welcome to the new QB of the Texans, it's a breath of fresh air we all need.

Marshall
02-13-2014, 08:34 AM
or.... numerous players that started well with the team then ended up not being "Texans worthy" & dropped went on to be amazing additions to other teams

You seem to be more concerned that we have members of the team who can't control themselves than in getting better as a team. I wonder why? Do you subscribe to the theory that every team needs bad guys to win?

CloakNNNdagger
02-13-2014, 08:56 AM
All three of those excuses you listed can be claimed by Schaub as well (to an extent). Keenum was not the only one who was limited by Kubiak (if there is indeed truth to that), behind a O-line who's right side was a joke, or whose opponents didn't game-plan for or scout.

In the same way Keenum declined, Schaub declined, albeit by a much larger margin. Contrary to what some posters would believe, Schaub used to be a top 15 QB in this league and somehow declined this season to one of the WORST. Add in another excuse of injury, Schaub has more reasons to decline than Keenum.

Yet, it seems the opinion of this board that Schaub's decline is not only all on Schaub, but permanent, while Keenum's is reversible and mostly Kubiak's, the defenses, the O-lines, and even Schaub's fault.

All that said, goodbye Schaub, welcome to the new QB of the Texans, it's a breath of fresh air we all need.


I believe that when assessing the 2 QBs' performances last season, many here tend to somehow overlook the fact that in the 1st 6 games that Schaub played to so poorly in, Foster (along with Tate) afforded him a GREAT RUNNING GAME. By the time Keenum was allowed to start, not only did he play with a shoddy OL with virtually no pass protection and pathetic D to go with it.........but Foster had "left the building" for good (and Tate was tattered)........and there was absolutely NOTHING LEFT OF THE RUNNING GAME.

buddyboy
02-13-2014, 09:43 AM
I believe that when assessing the 2 QBs' performances last season, many here tend to somehow overlook the fact that in the 1st 6 games that Schaub played to so poorly in, Foster (along with Tate) afforded him a GREAT RUNNING GAME. By the time Keenum was allowed to start, not only did he play with a shoddy OL with virtually no pass protection and pathetic D to go with it.........but Foster had "left the building" for good (and Tate was tattered)........and there was absolutely NOTHING LEFT OF THE RUNNING GAME.

Sorry, correct me if I'm wrong (completely possible), but this shoddy OL you're referencing that Keenum suffered behind...where there any changes to this OL from the first half of the season where Schaub was in?

You're likely correct on the running game, my perspective that the running game stunk all season is probably skewed by the rest of the season.

Allstar
02-13-2014, 10:06 AM
Sorry, correct me if I'm wrong (completely possible), but this shoddy OL you're referencing that Keenum suffered behind...where there any changes to this OL from the first half of the season where Schaub was in?

You're likely correct on the running game, my perspective that the running game stunk all season is probably skewed by the rest of the season.

He was saying that Schaub and Keenum were both set up to fail, but the only difference was the lack if run game. Both played with bad OL and defense.

infantrycak
02-13-2014, 10:13 AM
Sorry, correct me if I'm wrong (completely possible), but this shoddy OL you're referencing that Keenum suffered behind...where there any changes to this OL from the first half of the season where Schaub was in?

You're likely correct on the running game, my perspective that the running game stunk all season is probably skewed by the rest of the season.

The two went in opposite directions. The OL improved IMO: DB played significantly better in the back half than the beginning of the season and Brooks steadily improved as the season progressed.

steelbtexan
02-13-2014, 10:43 AM
You seem to be more concerned that we have members of the team who can't control themselves than in getting better as a team. I wonder why? Do you subscribe to the theory that every team needs bad guys to win?

I want the BEST players on the team.

I'm not concerned with what they do in their personal lives as long as the team wins. (Exclude Aaron Hernandez)

ObsiWan
02-13-2014, 11:31 AM
I was lied to. The thread title implies that herein lies some insight into what our new coaching staff will implement.

The posted article is just more b!tching about what was wrong with the previous coaching staff.

Not a single word on what is to come from O'Brien & company which is what this title
Our New Schemes on Both Sides of the Ball Will Promote Adaptability
implies will be here.

False advertising I tells ya!
:pissed:

Playoffs
02-13-2014, 11:51 AM
False advertising I tells ya!
:pissed:

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view7/4131861/charlie-brown-football-kick-o.gif

HJam72
02-13-2014, 05:26 PM
I believe that when assessing the 2 QBs' performances last season, many here tend to somehow overlook the fact that in the 1st 6 games that Schaub played to so poorly in, Foster (along with Tate) afforded him a GREAT RUNNING GAME. By the time Keenum was allowed to start, not only did he play with a shoddy OL with virtually no pass protection and pathetic D to go with it.........but Foster had "left the building" for good (and Tate was tattered)........and there was absolutely NOTHING LEFT OF THE RUNNING GAME.

That's a good point. I usually don't bother to say it, but it's true.

Honoring Earl 34
02-13-2014, 05:29 PM
I can't believe they are ditching the rollover draw . :snowday:

OzzO
02-14-2014, 07:20 AM
You seem to be more concerned that we have members of the team who can't control themselves than in getting better as a team. I wonder why? Do you subscribe to the theory that every team needs bad guys to win?

You got that judgement from one post? Nope, just offering a counterpoint and why limit scope of a search to choir boys? I'm sure everyone in the world has some degree of fault.

Marshall
02-14-2014, 07:35 AM
You got that judgement from one post? Nope, just offering a counterpoint and why limit scope of a search to choir boys? I'm sure everyone in the world has some degree of fault.
I'm more concerned with the reaction to the events. If they try to justify it or dismiss it, then I am more concerned. If they seem ashamed, then there's hope and I would be willing to take a little risk.

But an in your face goon is not someone I would want.

EllisUnit
02-16-2014, 02:40 PM
I was saying this all along, Kubiak took away what Keenum did great from him, he got in the boys head and told him to stay in the pocket. That was where Kubiak went wrong with Case, i;m sorry but if you throw 3 Long TDs to AJ in one game all outside the pocket then maybe, just maybe let the boy continue to do what he has been doing.

houstonspartan
02-16-2014, 03:08 PM
I was saying this all along, Kubiak took away what Keenum did great from him, he got in the boys head and told him to stay in the pocket. That was where Kubiak went wrong with Case, i;m sorry but if you throw 3 Long TDs to AJ in one game all outside the pocket then maybe, just maybe let the boy continue to do what he has been doing.


Was watching the Super Bowl at a friend's house, and Russell Wilson made some spectacular play (can't remember which). One guy who was at the party, and is really knowledgable about football overall, got frustrated and said: "See there, Case was capable of things like that before Kubiak got his hands on him."

The guy seemed like a reasonable, rational person who knows about football, and not a fan boy at all.

I don't know much about Case, but, I agreed with him.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk (http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1)

buddyboy
02-17-2014, 10:56 AM
Was watching the Super Bowl at a friend's house, and Russell Wilson made some spectacular play (can't remember which). One guy who was at the party, and is really knowledgable about football overall, got frustrated and said: "See there, Case was capable of things like that before Kubiak got his hands on him."

The guy seemed like a reasonable, rational person who knows about football, and not a fan boy at all.

I don't know much about Case, but, I agreed with him.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk (http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1)

So, before Kubiak coached up Case (aka, when he was a starter at UH) he was capable of winning a SuperBowl. Start Case, Superbowl or bust.

ObsiWan
02-19-2014, 02:05 AM
http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view7/4131861/charlie-brown-football-kick-o.gif
Exactly.

In fact, you could have posted this in the "how did last season make you feel" thread.

houstonspartan
02-19-2014, 03:47 PM
So, before Kubiak coached up Case (aka, when he was a starter at UH) he was capable of winning a SuperBowl. Start Case, Superbowl or bust.


Lol. Not sure where you got that from my comments. I was merely saying that a lot of people Case had potential until Kubiak started coaching him directly. I don't know either way, but, it wouldn't shock me if O'Brien keeps him around as aback-up.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk (http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1)

EllisUnit
02-19-2014, 04:48 PM
So, before Kubiak coached up Case (aka, when he was a starter at UH) he was capable of winning a SuperBowl. Start Case, Superbowl or bust.

haha dont recall any of us saying that. But before kubiak coached him up he was throwing TDs instead of staying in the pocket taking 15 yard sacks like he did after Kubiak said in in the colts press conference game (you know the one he threw 3 TDs to AJ) that case needed to work on staying in the pocket. The kid listened to his coach.....

Seegara
02-19-2014, 06:34 PM
I was saying this all along, Kubiak took away what Keenum did great from him, he got in the boys head and told him to stay in the pocket. That was where Kubiak went wrong with Case, i;m sorry but if you throw 3 Long TDs to AJ in one game all outside the pocket then maybe, just maybe let the boy continue to do what he has been doing.
He didn't have much choice. Opponents learned to rush wide from both sides and keep him in the pocket. Then, thanks to a leaky OL, blitzes up the middle weren't picked up and there was no place to go except down.

EllisUnit
02-19-2014, 06:42 PM
He didn't have much choice. Opponents learned to rush wide from both sides and keep him in the pocket. Then, thanks to a leaky OL, blitzes up the middle weren't picked up and there was no place to go except down.

he had a choice, i can watch games now and tell u multiple times he should of left the pocket and had plenty of room to roam but he didnt. Early on he did, after kubiak stressed staying in the pocket he didnt. Pretty simple Kubiak is still trying to keep alive the old school pocket passer offense, the NFL is passed that. He was trying to turn Keenum into something he is not. Wrong thing to do !

Number19
02-22-2014, 10:34 AM
In the Chronicle today was an interesting tid bit coming out of Indianapolis during OB's interview. The Texans will utilize TRAP blocking as well as zone blocking and power blocking. To effectively utilize trap blocking you need athletic, quick guards with nimble feet who can still hit with power when they get to their assignment. Quess should excel at this if kept at OG, having been used on trap plays from the OT position, in college. Brandon Brooks maybe not fit well in this blocking scheme.

The Pencil Neck
02-22-2014, 12:42 PM
In the Chronicle today was an interesting tid bit coming out of Indianapolis during OB's interview. The Texans will utilize TRAP blocking as well as zone blocking and power blocking. To effectively utilize trap blocking you need athletic, quick guards with nimble feet who can still hit with power when they get to their assignment. Quess should excel at this if kept at OG, having been used on trap plays from the OT position, in college. Brandon Brooks maybe not fit well in this blocking scheme.

He's said that he doesn't want to be tied down to any particular scheme but rather, play all of them depending on the matchups.

But... except for when Gibbs was here, Kubiak also incorporated other blocking schemes in with the zone scheme. He had incorporated trap blocking into the zone.

thunderkyss
03-10-2014, 10:12 AM
I didn't see any direct reference to it in this thread, so I thought I'd put this here (http://www.battleredblog.com/2014/3/6/5476912/the-bill-obrien-prototype-what-houstons-new-head-honcho-expects-from). If it's somewhere else (being that it was posted March 6) I apologize.

Pretty good stab at a look into the mind of Bill O'Brien, with some good videos to boot. A lot of the concepts appear to be similar to what we already do..... & he talks about playing fast, which I really like.


Beyond O’Brien’s tendency to rely heavily on the cerebral capacity of his quarterbacks, he also has an affinity for personnel groupings that provide multiplicity and flexibility. The more things that the offense can do from one personnel package, the faster the pace they can run plays. If a player can do one role well, he might make the team; if he can do three roles well, he is a starter.

"Whether it’s high school, college, or even the pros, you have to make sure that you have like five or six base concepts, and in those five or six base concepts you’ve got to be able to move people around. So you have to have different personnel groups in my opinion. So your backs, who are your best pass receiving backs? Who are your best pass receiving tight ends? Who are your quicker receivers?

But we’ve got to have about five or six concepts where the guys can move around within the concept and know what to do. Don’t worry about figuring out how we call routes, just know that we call a route at Penn State from the strength of the formation to the weak side of the formation."

Bill O’Brien’s nigh unstoppable war machine in New England was a cold blooded killer that left team after team in its wake. When looking at an offensive arsenal in Houston that includes Andre Johnson, DeAndre Hopkins, Arian Foster, Owen Daniels, Garrett Graham, DeVier Posey, and Ryan Griffin, it is not hard to get excited about the potentially astronomical numbers that could be put up this coming season. All Bill O’Brien needs to burn the AFC to the ground is a quarterback that is accurate, tough, is obsessed with football , and was taught how to read a defense before he ever cracked open his offensive play book.

michaelm
03-10-2014, 10:24 AM
I didn't see any direct reference to it in this thread, so I thought I'd put this here (http://www.battleredblog.com/2014/3/6/5476912/the-bill-obrien-prototype-what-houstons-new-head-honcho-expects-from). If it's somewhere else (being that it was posted March 6) I apologize.

Pretty good stab at a look into the mind of Bill O'Brien, with some good videos to boot. A lot of the concepts appear to be similar to what we already do..... & he talks about playing fast, which I really like.




If a player can do one role well, he might make the team; if he can do three roles well, he is a starter.




Every time I read a description of the kind of player OB likes, I feel like James Casey will end up returning to the team.

thunderkyss
03-10-2014, 11:23 AM
Every time I read a description of the kind of player OB likes, I feel like James Casey will end up returning to the team.

I really don't know why Kubiak was so restrictive on how he used Casey. I thought when he put him in at FB it was really going to help us out. If the defenses played him like a FB (putting a LB on the field) we swing him out, to the slot, or out wide, you get a big body out of the box where we can still run or pass... if they play him like a receiver (an extra DB) we run the ball with him either at FB, TE, or split wide....


Kinda makes me think Casey, Tate, & Brandon Harris were all Rick Smith picks & not Kubiak picks.

_King_
03-10-2014, 11:28 AM
I really don't know why Kubiak was so restrictive on how he used Casey. I thought when he put him in at FB it was really going to help us out. If the defenses played him like a FB (putting a LB on the field) we swing him out, to the slot, or out wide, you get a big body out of the box where we can still run or pass... if they play him like a receiver (an extra DB) we run the ball with him either at FB, TE, or split wide....


Kinda makes me think Casey, Tate, & Brandon Harris were all Rick Smith picks & not Kubiak picks.

It's because Kubiak was not a good head coach and he was too stressed to do things like that.

You might see more things that make sense in Baltimore offense now that his responsibilities have been narrowed.

Now he won't be as stressed having to worry about big and small picture problems.

honored82
03-10-2014, 12:15 PM
OB and his offense.

http://www.battleredblog.com/2014/3/6/5476912/the-bill-obrien-prototype-what-houstons-new-head-honcho-expects-from

ObsiWan
03-10-2014, 12:47 PM
Out of the potential QBs coming up this May, which QB does this describe - based on what we've heard of course....
This next one to me is really, really important. With all the multiplicity of the defenses these days, defenses at every level you’re seeing even, odd, we call it diamond, bear defense. You’re seeing bear. You’re seeing overload blitz. You’re seeing up the middle blitz. You’re seeing man-free, blitz zero. You’re seeing blitz zone, from the field, from the boundary. With all that, in my opinion, your quarterback has to be intelligent. He has to have a great football IQ. And if he doesn’t, if he can’t learn it, then he should play another position. I’m telling you, because nowadays that guy once he’s out on the field has got to be like a coach on the field. He has to understand what you want, how you want to attack the defense, and he’s got to understand football. In order to do it, he’s got to put work in."

any guesses?
:D

thunderkyss
03-10-2014, 01:03 PM
Out of the potential QBs coming up this May, which QB does this describe - based on what we've heard of course....


any guesses?
:D

McCarron

http://img.bleacherreport.net/img/images/photos/002/790/929/hi-res-fa80397665fb1bede454fe7a61815863_crop_north.jpg?w= 630&h=420&q=75


Or Jimmy Garoppolo even

http://blog.sfgate.com/49ers/wp-content/blogs.dir/2277/files/2014/03/121613-Garoppolo-600.jpg


Bridgewater is not the only guy who studies defenses.

infantrycak
03-10-2014, 01:43 PM
Kinda makes me think Casey, Tate, & Brandon Harris were all Rick Smith picks & not Kubiak picks.

James Casey got a fat contract from the use he got. Not sure what you mean about Tate. He was behind a better RB and still almost hit 1000 yds in his healthy year. Harris was a Wade call all the way.

It's because Kubiak was not a good head coach and he was too stressed to do things like that.

I guess the Eagles HC really sucks then since after giving him that fat contract he was virtually unused. 3 rec. last season.

_King_
03-10-2014, 02:38 PM
I guess the Eagles HC really sucks then since after giving him that fat contract he was virtually unused. 3 rec. last season.

Yes, because a third string TE for a team that rarely uses 3 TE's is the same thing as a starting FB/back-up TE on a team that used those positions quite a bit.

The point is that Kubiak started a guy/played him quite a bit and didn't use him to the best of his abilities.

What that has to do with the Eagles I don't know.

Insert Bunny with Pancake on his head.

infantrycak
03-10-2014, 02:52 PM
Yes, because a third string TE for a team that rarely uses 3 TE's is the same thing as a starting FB/back-up TE on a team that used those positions quite a bit.

The point is that Kubiak started a guy/played him quite a bit and didn't use him to the best of his abilities.

What that has to do with the Eagles I don't know.

Insert Bunny with Pancake on his head.

The bunny is for you, the person who is apparently smarter than two NFL head coaches, both with offensive backgrounds. They just couldn't figure out how to properly use him but you can.

And duh, third string TE was not the original intent. You don't sign third string TEs to 3 years $12 mil.

_King_
03-10-2014, 03:00 PM
The bunny is for you, the person who is apparently smarter than two NFL head coaches, both with offensive backgrounds. They just couldn't figure out how to properly use him but you can.

Well this is a message board. Do you feel that way about every topic commented on in which people aren't professionals in the field, or just when you get your panties in a bunch? Also, nice broad brush stroke there. Because I commented that I disagreed with one aspect of Kubiak's coaching I think I'm smarter than him and another coach which I have not commented on at all. You are ridiculous.



And duh, third string TE was not the original intent. You don't sign third string TEs to 3 years $12 mil.

What Philadelphia signed him to and used him as is not relevant to anything that I've said. But nice slight of hand I guess.

But I'll play anyways...why not...It's kind of fun...

Maybe Philly signed him...And then realized they had better players...Or maybe they signed him...and then in the draft when they found a better player they couldn't pass up the upgrade...

Bottom line is there is no connection between Philly and what Casey's ultimate role as a third string player and how Kubiak used him as a starter except maybe in your mind. But I guess when you're reaching you gotta make wacky connections.

infantrycak
03-10-2014, 03:08 PM
Well this is a message board. Do you feel that way about every topic commented on in which people aren't professionals in the field, or just when you get your panties in a bunch?

Doesn't come up very often where someone claims superiority to two head coaches in their areas of specialty. You jumped smooth into the armchair and pulled out the remote.

What Philadelphia signed him to and used him as is not relevant to anything that I've said. But nice slight of hand I guess.

Of course it is relevant. Casey was playing for peanuts for us yet Kubiak is a bad HC because he couldn't figure out how to use him when it was oh so obvious. Kelly is paying Casey serious coin and getting even less play showing he clearly is too dim to figure out something so obvious as well. Or...both of them disagree with your assessment.

_King_
03-10-2014, 03:11 PM
Doesn't come up very often where someone claims superiority to two head coaches in their areas of specialty. You jumped smooth into the armchair and pulled out the remote.

You either can't read or you're trolling or you have maybe the worst comprehension of anyone ever.



Of course it is relevant. Casey was playing for peanuts for us yet Kubiak is a bad HC because he couldn't figure out how to use him when it was oh so obvious. Kelly is paying Casey serious coin and getting even less play showing he clearly is too dim to figure out something so obvious as well. Or...both of them disagree with your assessment.


So not using a guy to the best of their ability is the same as not playing a guy much at all?

I commented on Tkyss post about Casey
not being used as best as he could. Nowhere did I say that Casey was a beast and should be starting. But if you are going to use him in that role, you would think that the coach would use him at what he's best at. Kelly ending up not playing him at all because he found better players has absolutely nothing to do with Kubiak starting a guy and then using him in a role that he wasn't best suited for.

Let me spell it out for you in plain terms..

-I think Kubiak Used Casey incorrectly as a mostly a lead blocker.
-Did Philly mess up by signing him to a nice contract and not playing him much? I don't know. Apparently you do. Maybe you think you are smarter than Chip Kelly or whoever made that decision.
-Does Philly use Casey wrong when he does play? I have No idea and again couldn't care less

The connection isn't there. But again, nice try. Listen if you really can't understand that, then I just feel bad for you. If you're trolling me, you got me.

_King_
03-10-2014, 03:37 PM
James Casey got a fat contract from the use he got.

That's you making up a narrative in your mind.

They weren't giving him a "fat contract" to be a mostly lead blocking FB. They were paying him that money based on how they felt he projected into their offense.

Maybe they were wrong since they didn't use him much. Maybe you think you are smarter than Chip Kelly since you think they gave a third string TE a fat contract and then he barely did anything.

CloakNNNdagger
03-11-2014, 08:42 PM
During this Twitter conversation about the cap, there may have be a little hint as to what kind of offense may be in store.

John McClain ‏@McClain_on_NFL 51m

Texans are $13.752 million under the cap.

Jayson Braddock ‏@JaysonBraddock 45m

Could get to $24 mil+ w/ release of Schaub/Myers/Manning RT @McClain_on_NFL: Texans are $13.752 million under the cap.


Steven Perry Jr ‏@texanfan2002114 44m

@JaysonBraddock @McClain_on_NFL I understand Schaub and manning but why release Myers?


Jayson Braddock ‏@JaysonBraddock

@texanfan2002114 @McClain_on_NFL going more power scheme, not zone. Ben Jones better suited & cheaper

ObsiWan
03-11-2014, 08:46 PM
I don't understand wanting to cut Myers or Manning

PHILLYTEXANFAN
03-11-2014, 08:51 PM
I don't understand wanting to cut Myers or Manning


Myers may not fit new scheme and may just be a product of the ZBS


Your man... Pots and pans

Vance87
03-11-2014, 08:57 PM
So now that Mitchell is gone are we going after a big NT in the draft?

CloakNNNdagger
03-11-2014, 09:01 PM
I don't understand wanting to cut Myers or Manning

Myers may not fit new scheme and may just be a product of the ZBS


Your man... Pots and pans

And Manning, at 31, has dealt with injuries and shown progressive decline in performance.

PHILLYTEXANFAN
03-11-2014, 09:04 PM
http://cdn3.sbnation.com/imported_assets/973602/myersragdoll-o.gif


Your man... Pots and pans

PHILLYTEXANFAN
03-11-2014, 09:04 PM
Myers will prolly go back to this


Your man... Pots and pans

CloakNNNdagger
03-11-2014, 09:05 PM
So now that Mitchell is gone are we going after a big NT in the draft?

Yes........and at this very moment, he is training hard to impress OB for our position of need.

http://www.frogsoda.com/images/captions/fat_guy_little_boat.jpg

PHILLYTEXANFAN
03-11-2014, 09:09 PM
Yes........and at this very moment, he is training hard to impress OB for our position of need.



http://www.frogsoda.com/images/captions/fat_guy_little_boat.jpg


Hahahaha, I love it


Your man... Pots and pans

thunderkyss
03-17-2014, 06:49 PM
So... Is Bill O'Brien as good a teacher as Charlie Weis?

Remember when Todd Haley was the HC of the 2010 Kansas City Chiefs? They went from 4-12 in 2009, to 10-6 AFC West champs in 2010. He had Charlie Weis as his OC & Romeo Crennel as his DC.
Weis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlie_Weis)was named offensive coordinator of the Kansas City Chiefs for 2010. In Weis's first year, the Chiefs improved from a record of 4–12 to 10–6 and returned to the playoffs after winning the AFC Western Division. With Weis as offensive coordinator, the Chiefs had the NFL's best rushing attack, averaging an impressive 165 yards per game on the ground. Offensively the Chiefs ranked 9th in total offense, 11th in points per game, 1st in rushing, and 28th in passing. The Chiefs also sent four players on offense (WR Dwayne Bowe, RB Jamaal Charles, QB Matt Cassel and OG Brian Waters) to the Pro Bowl. Bowe and Charles made their first ever trip to the Pro Bowl. Weis has also been credited with the improvement of QB Matt Cassel who had a career year throwing for 27 touchdowns and only 5 interceptions in 14 games.

Crennel on the other hand didn't do to well as the Chiefs were avg on defense. 14th in total defense. 11th in points allowed. 17th in passing yards per game. 14th in rushing ypg...

Brandon Carr, Brandon Flowers, Derrick Johnson, Glenn Dorsey, Javier Arenas, Jevon Belcher, Eric Berry, Ron Edwards, Mike Vrabel...

& now he's got Jj Watt.

mussop
03-17-2014, 09:07 PM
During this Twitter conversation about the cap, there may have be a little hint as to what kind of offense may be in store.



When did this happen? Did this happen? :confused:

ObsiWan
03-18-2014, 09:43 PM
I stole this from one of TK's posts in the keep Schaub or not poll thread because I thought this link belonged here in the New Schemes discussion

....look at the concepts OB talks about in his clinics (http://www.battleredblog.com/2014/3/6/5476912/the-bill-obrien-prototype-what-houstons-new-head-honcho-expects-from) you'll see it's very similar to what Schaub was doing under Kubiak. Granted, getting a QB familiar with OB & the system he ran/runs would have been ideal... Matt Cassel, Ryan Mallet, Brian Hoyer..... but it makes no sense to do it on anyone else's terms than ours, when we've got the next best thing (Schaub).

There's a pretty insightful video imbedded in this article where O'Brien himself is conducting a coaching clinic where he covers OB options in an empty backfield formation.

It's definitely worth a look

If this link has been posted in this thread already, my apologies for missing it.

thunderkyss
03-19-2014, 06:29 AM
I stole this from one of TK's posts in the keep Schaub or not poll thread because I thought this link belonged here in the New Schemes discussion



There's a pretty insightful video imbedded in this article where O'Brien himself is conducting a coaching clinic where he covers OB options in an empty backfield formation.

It's definitely worth a look

If this link has been posted in this thread already, my apologies for missing it.

Not that I'm complaining, I don't think enough people have seen it either, but I originally put it in this thread, Page 2 post 36

I didn't see any direct reference to it in this thread, so I thought I'd put this here (http://www.battleredblog.com/2014/3/6/5476912/the-bill-obrien-prototype-what-houstons-new-head-honcho-expects-from). If it's somewhere else (being that it was posted March 6) I apologize.

ObsiWan
03-19-2014, 06:26 PM
and if you check out that third embedded video, you'll see exactly how Brady & Co. stuck it to us up in Foxborough.

It's the one labeled Hoss-Y Juke.

Folks prone to recurring nightmares may not want to watch it.

Hopefully O'Brien will bring that offense down here and we'll cause nightmares all across the AFC South

_King_
04-01-2014, 01:41 PM
Listening to some clips of OB's town hall meeting from last night.

Some interesting notes about defense:

Says he estimates we'll be in nickel about 70% of the time
We'll play mostly 1 gap
Watt will move around a lot
Base defense will be 3-4, but they will give a lot of different looks off of that
Watt will play a lot of 4 tech
Plans on using Watt at what he does best, letting him get up field and get after it