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Playoffs
02-01-2014, 07:31 PM
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BfbYB3JIcAA-5O-.jpg

Adam Schefter ‏@AdamSchefter
Congratulations HOF Class of 2014: Aeneas Williams, Michael Strahan, Derrick Brooks, Walter Jones, Andre Reed, Ray Guy, Claude Humphrey.

About time for Ray Guy. Congrats to all.

JB
02-01-2014, 07:43 PM
Not sure about Humphrey, but a good class overall

JRingo
02-01-2014, 08:05 PM
Kevin Greene screwed again. A very good man..

Playoffs
02-02-2014, 12:36 PM
.. https://d2fhxf8f1mx9n3.cloudfront.net/styles/pirates/smilies/facepalm.gif


Warren Sapp: Michael Strahan doesn’t belong in Hall of Fame (http://tracking.si.com/2014/01/28/warren-sapp-says-michael-strahan-doesnt-belong-in-hall/)
Former defensive tackle Warren Sapp, who was elected to the Pro Football Hall of Fame last year, doesn’t think one of his peers, defensive end Michael Strahan, deserves to be voted in this year.

Sapp said at Super Bowl Media Day that Strahan, who is one of 15 finalists for the Hall, wasn’t good enough to be enshrined, according to Neil Best of Newsday.

The two traded barbs when Sapp was elected last season.

Strahan, 42, played 15 seasons for the Giants, was a four-time first-team All-Pro and had 141.5 career sacks, including an NFL record 22.5 in 2001.

Sapp criticized the record, as Brett Favre intentionally slid down in front of Strahan so he could seal it.

The 41-year-old Sapp played nine seasons for the Bucs and four for the Raiders. He was also a four-time first-team All-Pro and finished his career with 96.5 sacks as an interior lineman.
Strahan Responds To Sapp's Comments (http://espn.go.com/new-york/nfl/story/_/id/10366508/michael-strahan-responds-warren-sapp-criticism-hall-fame-candidacy)
"Football was part of my life, but it is not my entire life," said the former New York Giants defensive end, who's one of 15 finalists for Saturday's Pro Football Hall of Fame election. "So for some guys, maybe that's their entire life and that's all they have to hold on to. Playing football, sacking quarterbacks, that was part of my life, and I did it and I moved on. The tiger does not pay attention to the opinion of the sheep."
http://cdn.newsday.com/polopoly_fs/1.6904660.1391040310!/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/display_600/image.jpg
Warren Sapp fires back at Michael Strahan (http://www.newsday.com/sports/football/giants/warren-sapp-fires-back-at-michael-strahan-1.6904640)
"I can't make a man respect me, but I will stop him from disrespecting me -- I tell you that," Sapp told Newsday Wednesday night, launching the latest salvo in a war of words with Michael Strahan that has lasted more than a decade.

Sapp took issue with Strahan's comments Tuesday in which the former Giants defensive end suggested Sapp was being a "coward" for telling Newsday -- rather than Strahan directly -- that he questioned Strahan's Hall of Fame credentials.

Sapp, who was inducted last year, also wasn't pleased with Strahan saying "the tiger doesn't listen to the opinions of a sheep."

Said Sapp: "Really? I didn't know there were many first-ballot sheep running around."
Michael Strahan leads 2014 class into Pro Football Hall of Fame (http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/laces-out/michael-strahan-leads-2014-class-of-pro-football-hall-of-fame-020114)

http://blacksportsonline.com/home/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/Michael-Strahan.jpeg

kingtexan
02-02-2014, 01:42 PM
About time for Ray Guy.

Travesty that it has taken so long. He was first ballot talent ...

Lucky
02-02-2014, 02:16 PM
About time for Ray Guy. Congrats to all.

Travesty that it has taken so long. He was first ballot talent ...
Guy is in and good for him and all. But "about time" and "travesty"? For one, he's a punter. One of the best, if not the best, of his era. But...he's a punter. Second, he led the league in punting 3 times. That's the same number as former Oiler Greg Montgomery (who had a higher career average). Guy is tied for 89th in career average (with former Texan Matt Turk). I guess the real travesty would be Jerrel Wilson not being a HOFer, seeing that he led the league 5 times and had a higher average than Guy.

There are 2 spots available to the veteran committee each year. I just think there are players more worthy of a gold jacket. Ex-Oiler Robert Brazile, for instance.

I'm happy for Guy, his family, and fans that he will be enshrined. But, I think he was always over-hyped (especially by Howard Cosell), and should feel fortunate that he made it into the HOF strictly as a punter.

texan_joe
02-02-2014, 02:34 PM
Guy is in and good for him and all. But "about time" and "travesty"? For one, he's a punter. One of the best, if not the best, of his era. But...he's a punter. Second, he led the league in punting 3 times. That's the same number as former Oiler Greg Montgomery (who had a higher career average). Guy is tied for 89th in career average (with former Texan Matt Turk). I guess the real travesty would be Jerrel Wilson not being a HOFer, seeing that he led the league 5 times and had a higher average than Guy.

There are 2 spots available to the veteran committee each year. I just think there are players more worthy of a gold jacket. Ex-Oiler Robert Brazile, for instance.

I'm happy for Guy, his family, and fans that he will be enshrined. But, I think he was always over-hyped (especially by Howard Cosell), and should feel fortunate that he made it into the HOF strictly as a punter.


He should have been in a long time ago. I get tired of hearing people say " he's just a punter". Learn football people. Punting may not be exciting, but the punters play a huge part in the game when it comes to field position which greatly determines the outcome of a lot of games.

Lucky
02-02-2014, 02:37 PM
Learn football people.
It's good that the internet allows people like me to learn from people like yourself. Thanks for the lesson.

Marshall
02-02-2014, 02:40 PM
He should have been in a long time ago. I get tired of hearing people say " he's just a punter". Learn football people. Punting may not be exciting, but the punters play a huge part in the game when it comes to field position which greatly determines the outcome of a lot of games.

Too many of these players are simply good players on Great teams while Great players on good or worse teams go unrecognized. I think Guy fits that description.

texan_joe
02-02-2014, 02:42 PM
Kevin Greene screwed again. A very good man..

I could see Greene getting in before Reed, but outside of him, who would you replace for Greene?
Personally I think Tim Brown being looked over while Reed gets in is a bigger injustice. A lot of people are pissed about Aeneas Williams getting in, but he was a stud. Something like 53 picks and 12 touchdowns. There's no doubting Walter Jones. I would have rather seen Charles Haley than Strahan but I get Strahan going in. Derrick Brooks was a lock.
I think Greene gets in next year along with Tim Brown.

ChampionTexan
02-02-2014, 02:52 PM
Too many of these players are simply good players on Great teams while Great players on good or worse teams go unrecognized. I think Guy fits that description.

Which description? First or second one? (Because if it's the second one you mean, you're dead wrong).

Marshall
02-02-2014, 02:55 PM
Which description? First or second one? (Because if it's the second one you mean, you're dead wrong).
I think he was one of the good players on Great teams. There's nothing wrong with that, but I believe others were actually better players.

infantrycak
02-02-2014, 03:02 PM
I could see Greene getting in before Reed, but outside of him, who would you replace for Greene?
Personally I think Tim Brown being looked over while Reed gets in is a bigger injustice. A lot of people are pissed about Aeneas Williams getting in, but he was a stud. Something like 53 picks and 12 touchdowns. There's no doubting Walter Jones. I would have rather seen Charles Haley than Strahan but I get Strahan going in. Derrick Brooks was a lock.
I think Greene gets in next year along with Tim Brown.

I don't think Tim Brown or Reed should get in.

Haley OTOH should have gotten in before Strahan. I suspect his being a totally oddball cat is holding him back even though it isn't supposed to.

ChampionTexan
02-02-2014, 03:04 PM
I think he was one of the good players on Great teams. There's nothing wrong with that, but I believe others were actually better players.

Okay, then while I may give RG a little bit more credit than you, we basically agree. The Raiders over his career were a great team.

texan_joe
02-02-2014, 04:56 PM
I don't think Tim Brown or Reed should get in.

Haley OTOH should have gotten in before Strahan. I suspect his being a totally oddball cat is holding him back even though it isn't supposed to.

Oh, I think Tim Brown definitely deserves it. Reed I've always been on the fence about, but Brown was one of yhe better players in the 90's at his position. His receiving combined with his return skills made him a threat in every play he was involved in. All without an above average QB his entire career with the exception of Gannon for a few seasons at the end.
When I look at Strahan, he was nowhere near the player Haley was. Haley would have been in a long time ago if he hadn't of been a dick to sportswriters.

infantrycak
02-02-2014, 05:15 PM
Oh, I think Tim Brown definitely deserves it. Reed I've always been on the fence about, but Brown was one of yhe better players in the 90's at his position. His receiving combined with his return skills made him a threat in every play he was involved in. All without an above average QB his entire career with the exception of Gannon for a few seasons at the end.


You just hit it - Reed and Brown were each "one of the better players [in his era] at his position." I want to see guys who you at least had heated arguments over whether they were the best for some time period in their career.

In 17 years Brown was never an All Pro and led the league in 1 category (# of receptions) 1 time.
In 16 years Reed was never an All Pro and never led the league in anything.

I don't begrudge them getting in but that is lower than I would set the bar.

disaacks3
02-02-2014, 05:33 PM
You just hit it - Reed and Brown were each "one of the better players [in his era] at his position." I want to see guys who you at least had heated arguments over whether they were the best for some time period in their career.

In 17 years Brown was never an All Pro and led the league in 1 category (# of receptions) 1 time.
In 16 years Reed was never an All Pro and never led the league in anything.

I don't begrudge them getting in but that is lower than I would set the bar.

Pro-football reference begs to differ:

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/B/BrowTi00.htm Also led in PR yards (1994), Combined PR & KR (1988) Yards per touch (1988), All purpose yds (1988), Yds per return (1988) - Looks like you're not considereing anything other than his contributions as a receiver.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/R/ReedAn00.htm

In Reed's case, I hope he's paving the way for Andre.

Lucky
02-02-2014, 05:43 PM
In 17 years Brown was never an All Pro and led the league in 1 category (# of receptions) 1 time.
In 16 years Reed was never an All Pro and never led the league in anything.
It wasn't easy getting an All Pro nod or leading the league for WRs in the Jerry Rice era. Michael Irvin lead the league in receiving yards once and made one All Pro team (1991). Both Reed and Brown have better career numbers. Irvin has 3 more rings combined than Reed and Brown and he's a HOFer. Does that trump everything else in a career?

JB
02-02-2014, 06:11 PM
It's good that the internet allows people like me to learn from people like yourself. Thanks for the lesson.

Don't ya just love getting schooling from the pros here on the interwebz?

infantrycak
02-02-2014, 06:14 PM
Pro-football reference begs to differ:

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/B/BrowTi00.htm Also led in PR yards (1994), Combined PR & KR (1988) Yards per touch (1988), All purpose yds (1988), Yds per return (1988) - Looks like you're not considereing anything other than his contributions as a receiver.

You are correct I forgot to look at those. Now that you bring it up though, yeah I do discount returning pretty heavily.

It wasn't easy getting an All Pro nod or leading the league for WRs in the Jerry Rice era. Michael Irvin lead the league in receiving yards once and made one All Pro team (1991). Both Reed and Brown have better career numbers. Irvin has 3 more rings combined than Reed and Brown and he's a HOFer. Does that trump everything else in a career?

Well we both know winning SBs influences the decision.

Irvin 15.9 ypr, 65 TDs (1 per 2.45 gms), 74.9 ypg (7 fum) - top 5 receiving yards 4 seasons.
Brown 13.7 ypr, 100 TDs (1 per 2.55 gms), 58.6 ypg (33 fum) - top 5 receiving yards 0 seasons.
Reed 13.9 ypr, 87 TDs (1 per 2.69 gms), 56.4 ypg (25 fum) - top 5 receiving yards 2 seasons.

Better career numbers? - nope, just appears that way in 1 at first blush. Irvin is significantly better in the other 2. He was also influential on how the position is played.

Rice wasn't blocking the whole era but OK, expanding out to look at 2nd team Brown made it once and Reed twice.

I didn't say they were slag. To me Brown and Reed are in the discussion but fall just short. Irvin also was not clear cut but I felt just made it.

HOU-TEX
02-03-2014, 10:20 AM
I don't think Tim Brown or Reed should get in.

Haley OTOH should have gotten in before Strahan. I suspect his being a totally oddball cat is holding him back even though it isn't supposed to.

Agreed on Reed. I don't think he should've been chosen.

I'm not sure why Kevin Greene's getting hosed. Hopefully he'll eventually get in. He's a different position, but I'd put Greene in before both Haley, Strahan and definitely Reed. Imo, it's not even close.

infantrycak
02-03-2014, 10:27 AM
Agreed on Reed. I don't think he should've been chosen.

I'm not sure why Kevin Greene's getting hosed. Hopefully he'll eventually get in. He's a different position, but I'd put Greene in before both Haley, Strahan and definitely Reed. Imo, it's not even close.

Actually Haley played the same position in San Fran - LOLB in their 3-4.

I think Greene should get in as well, but Haley was a key piece of 5 SB winning teams.